: New oil being used by GM...



stealth97
12-23-10, 01:17 AM
I went in for my first oil change yesterday and found out GM is using a new oil (in lieu of synthetic). Tech guy told me it was new and they would be trained on this new oil first week of January. He did say the oil lasts the same as synthetic. He told me the name, but I forgot. He said all of GM is rolling this out. Anyone heard of this? Thanks!

Cooper10
12-23-10, 07:37 AM
General Motors developed a new classification of motor oil called dexos1. This new motor oil class is now mandated for use
in 2011 GM vehicles. This proprietary product will be availabe at GM dealers and cost more to use. The 2011 SRX has free oil
changes during the warranty period.

stevec5375
12-23-10, 07:59 AM
General Motors developed a new classification of motor oil called dexos1. This new motor oil class is now mandated for use
in 2011 GM vehicles. This proprietary product will be availabe at GM dealers and cost more to use. The 2011 SRX has free oil
changes during the warranty period.

Mandated? As in, you void your warranty if you don't use it? That's probably illegal, if true. It's a form of price fixing.

C&C
12-23-10, 09:03 AM
While the Dexos1 may be proprietary, the standard is met by quite a few oil brands already out there (Mobil 1, Castrol Edge, etc.). I believe it is going to come down to whether the oil is SN rated (previous top rated was SM). There are quite a few oil threads already on this board, and Google is your friend (except you may experience data overload). The new oil shouldn't be too much of a concern and no warranties will be broken using the newer SN rated oils.

Razorecko
12-23-10, 11:37 AM
oil exceeding GF-4 standards....This is the stuff i been using and the only oil i know of on the market thats gm approved and meets these new standards

http://www.pennzoil.com/#/motor-oil/pennzoil-ultra

Pennzoil ultra synthetic

Ponyman
12-23-10, 12:07 PM
If you use an oil that meets or exceeds GM's specifications then you will be fully covered by warranty. If you use an oil that doesn't meet their specs, and then you have engine problems, you may not have your repairs covered. They are well within their rights to set specs for their products, and expect people to adhere to them. Does this mean that if you use another oil, that you will have problems, of course not. Probably any modern oil of the proper viscosity would never cause any problems. Just don't go dumping any 50 weight in it. Finally, if you want to try sueing GM over mandating specs for their problems, go ahead. I'll take bets on who wins that one.

Razorecko
12-23-10, 09:17 PM
^ Hence why i use the pennzoil ultra, its on GM's list of " approved oils "

stealth97
12-24-10, 01:58 AM
Thanks for the replies. Is this dexos oil as good as synthetic?
Also, how does the oil life system work? Does it measure the type of oil in the car or does it just go by mileage? Thanks!

stevec5375
12-24-10, 08:22 AM
Thanks for the replies. Is this dexos oil as good as synthetic?
Also, how does the oil life system work? Does it measure the type of oil in the car or does it just go by mileage? Thanks!

See page 9-12 of the manual:

Engine Oil Life System
When to Change Engine Oil
This vehicle has a computer system
that indicates when to change the
engine oil and filter. This is based
on engine revolutions and engine
temperature, and not on mileage.
Based on driving conditions, the
mileage at which an oil change is
indicated can vary considerably. For
the oil life system to work properly,
the system must be reset every time
the oil is changed.
When the system has calculated
that oil life has been diminished, it
indicates that an oil change is
necessary. A CHANGE ENGINE
OIL SOON message comes on. See
Engine Oil Messages on
page 4‑36. Change the oil as soon
as possible within the next 1 000 km
(600 miles). It is possible that,
if driving under the best conditions,
the oil life system might not indicate
that an oil change is necessary for
over a year. However, the engine oil
and filter must be changed at least
once a year and at this time the
system must be reset. Your dealer/
retailer has trained service people
who will perform this work using
genuine parts and reset the system.
It is also important to check the oil
regularly and keep it at the proper
level.
If the system is ever reset
accidentally, the oil must be
changed at 5 000 km (3,000 miles)
since the last oil change.
Remember to reset the oil life
system whenever the oil is changed.

stealth97
12-24-10, 02:58 PM
Thanks, but does the oil life system take into account the type of oil put in? For example, synthetic vs regular. And if so, where does this new dexos fall into? Thanks!

C&C
12-25-10, 06:28 AM
Thanks, but does the oil life system take into account the type of oil put in? For example, synthetic vs regular. And if so, where does this new dexos fall into? Thanks!

No, there is no way the sensors can monitor what you put into your crankcase; you have to put in the oil that your Owner's Manual lists and the specification it requires. Again, I am almost positive that the new SN rated oils will meet the new Dexos1 standards. (and as more and more oils get GM certification, the new oil label will probably include a statement on the can/bottle that stipulates 'meets GM Dexos1 requirements' or something to that effect.

TheCaptain
12-26-10, 03:42 PM
The old 5718 oil standard to meet warranty spec doesn't cut it anymore?

C66 Racing
12-30-10, 04:36 PM
Thanks for the replies. Is this dexos oil as good as synthetic?
Also, how does the oil life system work? Does it measure the type of oil in the car or does it just go by mileage? Thanks!

Dexos isn't by definition a synthetic - it is GM's new specification that replaces both the GM6094 and GM4718M specifications. As mentioned above, there are already many oils on the market that meet this specification including two by AMSOIL which are synthetics:
AMSOIL OE Synthetic 5w30 (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/OEFPB.htm) (Product Code OEFQT)
AMSOIL XL Synthetic 5w30 (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/XLFPB.htm) (Product Code XLFQT)
:cheers:

pastohio
12-30-10, 06:50 PM
What is the going rate at the dealerships to change the oil and filter with the recommended synthetic stuff !!??

Ponyman
12-30-10, 09:05 PM
With Mobil 1 my dealer was charging about 60 bucks on our 08 CTS.

stealth97
12-30-10, 11:05 PM
So, is this new oil an acceptable alternative to synthetic? Would there be a reason to get synthetic over this new dexos? Will the dexos last as long? ThAanks!

C66 Racing
12-31-10, 09:42 AM
So, is this new oil an acceptable alternative to synthetic? Would there be a reason to get synthetic over this new dexos? Will the dexos last as long? ThAanks!

That's a pretty broad set of questions so I don't think you'll find one definitive answer. Part of the issue is that Dexos is both an oil (GM Brand) and a spec, thus some oils that meet the spec can be better than others, e.g. some will meet the specs minimum requirements and others will exceed it. For example, Dexos1 specs are more stringent that ILSAC GF-5 specs in the areas of turbocharger protection, piston cleanliness, engine sludge protection, and volatility. But ILSAC GF-5 specs are more stringent that Dexos1 in the areas of emission systems durability, fuel economy and E85 emulusion retention. The two AMSOIL synthetics I mentioned above meet both specs, thus are "better" than Dexos1 in many areas and "better" than ILSAC GF-5 in others.

The other large variable you are looking at is that the API as not defined the term "synthetic", rather dividing oils up into Groups. Most synthetic oils on the market today are Group III basestocks, which is a basestock of highly hydrocracked mineral oil allowed to be labeled as synthetic due to litigation between Mobil 1 and Castrol back in the 90s. Group III is a good basestock and Group III synthetics (which is almost all of the synthetics on the market today) perform better overall than Group II basestock which is what is labeled as conventional (mineral) oil. But even among Group III oils, the quality of the basestock can vary as can the additive levels (anti-wear additives, detergents and dispersants). These differences can be seen in looking at some performance specs of the oils. For example, as reported by the companies, the High Temp High Shear (a measure of a lubricant’s viscosity under severe high temperature and shear conditions that are similar to severe service applications in an engine) for their 5w30 oils is 2.9 cSt for Castrol Syntec, 3.13 for Mobil 1 and 3.3 for the two AMSOIL oils listed above.

How long an oil can last is very dependent on the amount of detergents and dispersants an oil has as well as its basestock. The amount of detergents and dispersants an oil has can somewhat be determined by the oils Total Base Number (TBN), a measure of its resistance to acidic buildup from engine combustion byproducts. Not many oil companies report TBN, but the difference can also be seen in how they recommend the oils usage. For example, Mobil 1 is recommended for OEM intervals and Mobil 1 Extended Performance is recommended for up to 20k miles. Clearly the later has more additives. AMSOIL is similar. The AMSOIL OE 5w30 has a TBN of 7.9 and is recommended for OEM oil change intervals. The AMSOIL XL 5w30 has a TBN of 9.0 and is recommended for up to 10k mile oil change intervals (really designed for cars without Oil Life Monitors). Both of these are Dexos1 spec Group III basestock oils. Go up to AMSOIL's SAE Synthetic 5w30 which has a Group IV (polyalphaolefin or PAO) synthetic basestock which has a TBN of 12.2 and the oil change interval goes up to 25k or one year in normal service (15k in severe service) due to the better basestock and higher additive level. AMSOIL's best Group IV synthetic, the Signature Series 0w30 has a TBN of 13.2 and is recommended for up to 35k miles or one year in normal service (17.5k in severe service) (this is the oil I used in my 06 CTS-V). Note that the latter two Group IV oils are not Dexos1 oils.

The takeaway from all of this is that there are so many variations of "synthetic" on the market that you really can't get a good answer to your questions. If I were to generalize, I'd say that Dexos1 spec raises the bar for the minimum oil quality that GM recommends but that there are still better alternatives in the many options that meet Dexos1 specs. In general, those that are synthetic will perform "better" which generally means lower wear in the engine and probably better fuel mileage. :cheers:

stevec5375
12-31-10, 10:54 AM
...

How long an oil can last is very dependent on the amount of detergents and dispersants an oil has as well as its basestock. The amount of detergents and dispersants an oil has can somewhat be determined by the oils Total Base Number (TBN), a measure of its resistance to acidic buildup from engine combustion byproducts. Not many oil companies report TBN, but the difference can also be seen in how they recommend the oils usage. For example, Mobil 1 is recommended for OEM intervals and Mobil 1 Extended Performance is recommended for up to 20k miles. Clearly the later has more additives. AMSOIL is similar. The AMSOIL OE 5w30 has a TBN of 7.9 and is recommended for OEM oil change intervals. The AMSOIL XL 5w30 has a TBN of 9.0 and is recommended for up to 10k mile oil change intervals (really designed for cars without Oil Life Monitors). Both of these are Dexos1 spec Group III basestock oils. Go up to AMSOIL's SAE Synthetic 5w30 which has a Group IV (polyalphaolefin or PAO) synthetic basestock which has a TBN of 12.2 and the oil change interval goes up to 25k or one year in normal service (15k in severe service) due to the better basestock and higher additive level. AMSOIL's best Group IV synthetic, the Signature Series 0w30 has a TBN of 13.2 and is recommended for up to 35k miles or one year in normal service (17.5k in severe service) (this is the oil I used in my 06 CTS-V). Note that the latter two Group IV oils are not Dexos1 oils.

The takeaway from all of this is that there are so many variations of "synthetic" on the market that you really can't get a good answer to your questions. If I were to generalize, I'd say that Dexos1 spec raises the bar for the minimum oil quality that GM recommends but that there are still better alternatives in the many options that meet Dexos1 specs. In general, those that are synthetic will perform "better" which generally means lower wear in the engine and probably better fuel mileage. :cheers:

If I understand this correctly, the higher the TBN the higher the mileage between oil changes or one year, whichever comes first. So if I drive approx. 8K miles/year, wouldn't it sort of be overkill for me to pay the extra for the oil with a TBN of 13.2 since there is no way I'm even coming close to 35K miles/year?

I see you're an AMSOil dealer from your website. I used to purchase AMSOil for a jetski that I owned and it did a great job. I was thinking about using AMSOil for my SRX. Which would you recommend that doesn't have me paying a lot more than I need to since I drive low mileage annually (approx 8K)?

I'm thinking the following is sufficent:
XL 5W-30 Synthetic Motor Oil
AMSOIL XL Extended Life Synthetic Motor Oils provide better wear control, high- and low-temperature protection and increased fuel economy compared to conventional oils. Formulated with extended-drain boost technology, AMSOIL XL Synthetic Motor Oils provide superior performance for up to 10,000-miles/six months, or longer when recommended in owner’s manuals or indicated by electronic oil life monitoring systems.
Product codes: XLF

Thanks.

C66 Racing
12-31-10, 01:08 PM
Steve,
Your understanding of the TBN is correct, but there may be other reasons for using an oil like the AMSOIL Signature Series Synthetic 0w30 (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Product%20Bulletins/SSOPB.htm) (Product Code SSOQT) which may include the better basestock (Group IV vs. Group III). But in a daily driver like the SRX, the additional cost is tough to justify and in your case, I'd probably use the XL 5w30 as you suggest. I have a similar application in my 03 Chevy Trailblazer (5.3L V-8) and I'm currently using the Sig Series 0w30 mostly because I bought a couple cases I didn't use for my CTS-V. I have one my oil change with that, then I'll probably switch to the XL 5w30 for my Trailblazer. If I still had my CTS-V, I'd probably use the Sig Series because I felt the car deserved the best.
:cheers:
P.S. I'm dropping you a PM with an offer for the AMSOIL Preferred Customer Program (http://www.c66racing-synthetics.com/Preferredcustomer.htm) so if you do decide to try AMSOIL, you can get it at dealer cost.

GeeVee
01-01-11, 02:47 AM
Since engine oil is so important to the performance of an engine. Which of the oils that have been discussed and others we have`nt ( Mobil One, Dexos, AmSOIL to name a few ) which oil are the members going with? Originally I was going to stick with Mobil One but now I`m more open minded to the alternatives that could be better. I like the fact that Mobil has a proven track record.

Ponyman
01-01-11, 01:30 PM
Which ever one that my dealer recommends, which will probably be Mobil1 or the Dexos. As long as it meets specs, and you change it when it is needed, you should never have an engine oil related failure no matter what brand you usse. Not that I am having to add any oil, but the only thing I can see about the Dexos, is that you would have to get it at the dealer, where you can get Mobil 1 and others from auto supply stores etc. That being said, I can't remember the last time I had to add any oil to any of my newer GM vehicles between oil changes.

Andy_TN
01-01-11, 07:34 PM
Speaking of oil, just changed mine today. I'm going to stick with what's clearly displayed on the oil fill cap - "M1 5W-30" unless otherwise advised by GM.

Anyone else out there changing their own oil? If so, what exactly are you using? Just curious...

TheCaptain
01-01-11, 07:42 PM
I did the first oil change on my SRX at 1000kms. Used Mobil 1. Cadillac Maintenance covers it now, also with Mobil 1. (at this point in time anyway)

C66 Racing
01-03-11, 08:02 PM
Was skimming through the Dec issue of Lubes n' Greases, a lubricant periodical, and found an article on Dexos 1 that might be of interest to those skimming this thread. The conclusion of the author is that Dexos 1 "...is not in the same league..." as the main commerical synthetics. I think this direct link to the online version of their magazine will work:
Will Dexos Tease the Synthetic Tier by Thomas Glenn (http://digital.olivesoftware.com/OLIVE/ODE/LNG/Default.aspx?href=LNG%2F2010%2F12%2F01&pageno=12&view=document)
:cheers:

Smokin' SRX
01-04-11, 10:43 AM
Dealer gets $87 here in N, with Mobil 1. C66, has great info. I bet the new Dexos (a non-synthetic) is a lot cheaper for GM to give in the FREE Maintenance period on the 2011's, than syntec. Probably has new additives that increase lubricity and life, but a syntec has incredible cold and hot/severe use properties that won't be matched, IMHO, by Dexos oil. I think it was a $$ decision, purely.

In my older sleds and Non-Gm's, I will use the 100% syntec as I've been using in my 2010 SRX. (mobil 1 or Penzoil etc)

SS

CRL1
01-06-11, 05:12 PM
Here is a link to the GM dexos information center web site and another link to the Mobil1 web site showing that Mobil1 5w-30 is a dexos licensed product and approved for use in GM vehicles.

www.gmdexos.com/home.html

www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Oils/Mobil_1_5W-30.aspx

IMHO a lot of hype over nothing!

pastohio
01-06-11, 06:40 PM
The dealership in Florida, for $69.95 they replaced with synthetic and the filter, did a complete fluid top off, rotated the tires, even did a car wash plus I had a $3 extra for miscellaneous supplies....the car was just @ 6000 miles and computer said that the life still on the oil was 30%....felt it was time to at least get the first change, usually I notice that after the first change, you get a little better MPG numbers...