: Wipers won't turn off?



Benzilla
12-20-10, 03:55 PM
Having a problem with the Phaeton. When I have the wipers on any speed, and try to turn them off, they revert to the slow speed with the switch at the off position. Sometimes they go off after a few more swipes, sometimes I have to turn the car off & back on for them to go off.

If it matters, I have the delay wipers. Could it be in the switch, or something deeper?

I tried replacing the switch with a couple spares I had, but both of them blew the fuse as soon as I turned the key to 'Run'.

BTW Guess I've been gone too long, the whole forum has a different layout that the last time I was here. :rolleyes:

outsider
12-20-10, 04:10 PM
my 87 does this. there are a few things in the 87 FSM for causes/solutions. When I get home (tomorrow) I will post some info for you. might help even though yours is a 79

Benzilla
12-20-10, 04:28 PM
Thanks, I looked in the '79 FSM but didn't find anything. Will update if I run across anything.

drmenard
12-20-10, 04:53 PM
Most likley the relay in the unit is sticking ,keeping it on... if water gets inside it will cause this to happen..

sven914
12-20-10, 06:21 PM
Mine do this sometimes... I replaced the switch because they had stopped working entirely, but that didn't solve the problems with them being on when they weren't supposed to be. I'm pretty sure some of the wires in the dash are bad and are getting interfering signals from one another; maybe the insulation wore off of a few and they are shorted together.

One of the quick fixes I have found, when the wipers are acting up, is to put the switch in the OFF position and hit the WASH button. This seems to freeze them in position, and then when the switch is turned on and then off, they will make a final sweep and park like normal. Another time, when they were stuck in WASH mode, I was able to get them to stop by setting the switch to LO speed, and manually stopping the blades with my fist. As soon as the one hit my hand, they both stopped and the washer pump quit, and when I removed my hand, they resumed sweeping on the LO-speed delay cycle.

brougham
12-20-10, 07:11 PM
Mine work great until you press the wash button. Then they keep going and washing. And for that it's something to do with the washer pump. Never had problems with them stuck on normally.

1980coupe
12-20-10, 09:29 PM
mine were acting up and I replaced the circuit board under the plastic cover on the motor. Then again it started to act up and I replaced the switch and now they work perfect. The switch it had was coming loose from the back side where the connector goes in. Try getting other spares and try those. If not chances it could be your wiper motor but the circuit board. I was trying to find one on eBay to paste the link and couldn't find one.

brougham
12-20-10, 10:15 PM
The circuit board you can buy from the dealer. I also had to replace that before.

1980coupe
12-20-10, 10:21 PM
The circuit board you can buy from the dealer. I also had to replace that before.

maybe on yours you can but not for his or mine. I got mine at o'reillys. After 10 yrs dealer discontinues parts. I went once and the parts personnel told me this.

tbcaddy18
12-21-10, 01:10 AM
Does anyone have the part number for the circuit board for the motor?..or the webpage link?

I've already changed my switch with a new one, but when it works it'll just stop on me, and randomly start working again.

brougham
12-21-10, 02:29 AM
maybe on yours you can but not for his or mine. I got mine at o'reillys. After 10 yrs dealer discontinues parts. I went once and the parts personnel told me this.

If it is the typical GM wiper motor setup it's the same as what mine is but I don't know what the motor looks like on the 70s ones. Rockauto shows the same one tho. They don't discontinue all parts at 10 years and even for ones they do doesn't mean there isn't any left in stock.

outsider
12-21-10, 08:36 AM
WIPER WILL NOT SHUT OFF, BLADES MAKE FULL WIPE STROKE:
a: Grounded lead wire from wiper terminal 1 to wiper switch
b: Corroded wiper terminals
c: Wiper switch defective

WIPER WILL NOT SHUT OFF, BLADES MOVE UP AND DOWN ABOUT 15 DEGREES FROM PARK POSITION
a: Open in lead wire from wiper terminal 3 to wiper switch
b: Wiper switch defective
c: Wiper switch mounting loose

This is from my 87 FSM.
It also has some charts to help you further diagnose the problem. If you let me know which one of these conditions is true for you (full or only 15 degree swipe) I can post the chart for you.

Benzilla
12-21-10, 11:23 AM
Thanks! It's the 1st one. Can't imagine why I can't find that in the '79 FSM..

outsider
12-21-10, 12:45 PM
http://i866.photobucket.com/albums/ab227/CadillacMatt/diagnosticchart.jpg


hope that helps, didn't have a scanner so I drew it out in visio. lol

turk
03-28-11, 10:54 PM
WIPER WILL NOT SHUT OFF, BLADES MAKE FULL WIPE STROKE:
a: Grounded lead wire from wiper terminal 1 to wiper switch
b: Corroded wiper terminals
c: Wiper switch defective

WIPER WILL NOT SHUT OFF, BLADES MOVE UP AND DOWN ABOUT 15 DEGREES FROM PARK POSITION
a: Open in lead wire from wiper terminal 3 to wiper switch
b: Wiper switch defective
c: Wiper switch mounting loose

This is from my 87 FSM.
It also has some charts to help you further diagnose the problem. If you let me know which one of these conditions is true for you (full or only 15 degree swipe) I can post the chart for you.

My 89 manual has the same info. One quick test you can do with the 3 way switch harness on the wiper motor assembly is turn the ignition to run, test the middle lead for hot with a test light. If the test light lights, hook the light up to hot (I use a fused jumper from the hot battery post) put the wiper dash switch on low, and probe the 2 end connectors on the harness. Both should light. If they do, turn the switch to Hi, and probe both end connectors, only one should light the lamp. Turn the switch to off, and probe the opposite connector from the Hi test lamp lighter. It should light. If any of these fail, it's the harness or switch, according to my 89 manual.

By the way, I'm having the non-stop wiper problem. My wipers quit completely, I replaced the pump circuit board assembly, and now hi, low, and washer works, but no delay, and no off. It also failed the Lo switch test above, as only one side lit the lamp.

Anyone think this could be something other than the switch?

Does anyone know where to find one of these switches?

Benzilla
03-19-12, 11:34 AM
Hey guys, thanks for all the help. Update, I got kind of distracted & hadn't been driving the car much, so I never fixed it. But recently, the wipers stopped working all together, so I'm back to finding the problem again. Guess I'm checking the switch first. Makes it a little harder because I don't have a voltmeter.

outsider
03-19-12, 11:59 AM
You should get one. even a cheap digital one from walmart is better than not having one at all! I have a digital and an analog one and use them often!

Benzilla
03-19-12, 01:41 PM
Just found out my room mate has one I can use... now my only problem is knowing what to do with the damn thing when I'm standing out in front of the car staring into the engine bay expectantly...

Been looking through my service manual again. All I can find is a picture & description of how the wipers are supposed to work, yet nothing on how to fix them when something goes bang. Will keep looking, must have missed something.

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Just found out the reason my service manual doesn't have the info I'm looking for is because supposedly it's covered in the 1979 Fisher body service manual - that I don't have. Found a pdf of it at 79ta.com (Firebird restoration site) Not sure how I feel about buying a $11 pdf from a website I just now found out about.

EDIT: figured "screw it" and got the pdf. Looking through it now.

sven914
03-19-12, 01:54 PM
How much would it cost to get the body manual?

eBay says $15, and you'll get everything....

http://www.ebay.com/itm/1979-79-Fisher-Body-Service-Manual-Buick-Cadillac-Chevrolet-Oldsmobile-Pontiac-/110844502403?pt=Motors_Manuals_Literature&hash=item19ced8e183&vxp=mtr

Benzilla
03-19-12, 04:06 PM
Been looking through the pdf I downloaded. It's very complete with a lot of good info, but some of the pictures are so dark from scanning, they're useless. So, I can see that it's telling me to check currant at the no. 2 terminal for example, but I can't see where it is, or what it looks like. I suppose that's what I get for being impatient.

Tempted to go out and buy the whole unit & replace it, but I know with my luck, if I do that it will end up being a wire short somewhere, and it still won't work, lol. But at this point it's either that, or take it to a mechanic and let them sort it out.

Benzilla
03-19-12, 05:44 PM
Not sure if this rules anything out, but I discovered that the washer still sprays when the button is pushed, but the wipers won't run on any setting.

deVille33
03-20-12, 09:25 AM
That means that Your getting the signal to the wiper motor. If you are using the original pump, it runs off a cam driven by the motor. So the motor is operaing. That means that your problem is on the wiper transmission drive side. It is not often that the drive arm unbolts and falls off without strange things happening, but there is a ball and socket on the end of the arm which sometimes wears and dislocates. Can you move the wipers, as a unit or independenly, freely? I would check this before tearing into the electronics.

Benzilla
03-20-12, 12:03 PM
As far as I know, the pump is original. Wipers will not move more than a couple inches when I pull on the arms. motor makes no sound when I turn the switch. Everything seems to be connected around the motor & arm movement shafts when I compare it to my '90.

Benzilla
03-21-12, 04:05 PM
Well.. I replaced the wiper motor & reused the old washer pump because it still pumps fluid... Now, not only do the wipers still not work, but I noticed white smoke coming from the unit when I was testing everything. I know it sounds like I made an epic fail, but I swear to god I hooked everything up exactly how it was. only difference is, though I hooked up all the wires going to/from the exact same place they were on the old one, the colors are different on the new one. (going from new wiper motor to original washer motor)

Old one had a black wire w/ pink stripe coming from the side of the cylinder that's red on the new one.
Old one had an all red wire coming from the cylinder that's all pink on the new one.

I hooked it up according to the exact location of the original wires & what they were running from, but the colors are different, didn't think much of it. Plus, if I had tried it according to color, one wire (new red one that was pink & black on the old one) wouldn't have reached where it was supposed to. new motor looks just like the old one, not sure what went wrong...

In unrelated news, it seems that the 2nd alternator I've put in this car in the last 5 years is dying now.

(@the times I think how much easier it would be if I just drove a 2011 Focus like my room mate, lol)

outsider
03-21-12, 04:24 PM
Does this year have multiple options for the wiper motor?

I know on my 87 you can get one with the delay and one without the delay settings. If you use the wrong switch with the wrong motor you can do damage.

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I just looked on rock auto and it does list an option for with delay and an option for without delay. maybe you got the wrong one?

Benzilla
03-21-12, 04:36 PM
Same with this one. Mine came originally with delay, and I made sure to get the delay motor to replace it.

deVille33
03-22-12, 09:51 AM
The delay wiper motors, were also called pulse wiper motors, and yes, the control and the wiper have to be used together. If you pull the plastic cover off the unit, you should see a little green plastic control unit. This is the unit that controls the delay. The biggest difference in the two units is the cam for the washer pump. The cam for the pluse unit has long arms on it that make it look a little like a starfish, while the standard unit has shorter arms. The pulse wiper motor unit was used on other models including the pick-up trucks and is listed in my 1989 GM GMC parts catalog. The wiring colors may have changed in different years.

robb257731
03-26-12, 11:59 AM
My 91 does the same thing. Drives me nuts.

Benzilla
05-11-12, 03:32 PM
Well, here's a small update on the situation of the wipers not working at all anymore. As mentioned in another thread about a pinging problem, the car is in the shop right now getting a new 100 amp alternator, and the wipers figured out. They've had it for a few days, and are still trying to figure out whats wrong with the wipers. They said the switch is fine, the motor I installed it fine, and all the wiring down through the fuse panel is fine.. There's some kind of problem between the firewall & the wiper motor that's not giving it power.... I offered to make some copies of my '79 Fisher body manual that has troubleshooting & diograms for them, but he said they've already got something they're looking at trying to figure it out...

So, it's a waiting game for me.. kinda worrisome when it's even got the mechanics at a shop specializing in electronics stumped.