: We Need to V



USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-15-10, 09:58 PM
There are rear spoilers, chrome and wood upgrades, ways to tune, side moldings and grills, and plenty of V badges rolling around for our cruisers. I know there has to be SOMEONE that can find or create a Vstyle hood. I know that theres at least a few of you learking around with V emblems and the fender vents and spoilers. Does anyone want to take one for the team and help start creating cowl hoods? If the other Caddies can V and take on Benz and BMW, then I think we should pickup the plate where Caddy left off and other motorist dont tread. One for the record books? Count me in.

tedcmiller
12-16-10, 12:13 AM
Putting a V-badge on your car doesn't make it a V. I know because I have one.

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-16-10, 09:38 AM
Thats what im saying, lets make a V. Im sure there is a way to get to a respectable point of performance with a DTS

383 LT1 SS
12-16-10, 11:23 AM
Sure a hood can be created. How many would sell? The DTS does not attract the tuner crowd. If your looking for a car to modify and like a big car look into the 94-96 Impala SS.

383 LT1 SS

tedcmiller
12-16-10, 03:18 PM
The current DTS uses the Northstar engine which is due to be discontinued. While some performance improvements can be made to this engine, they are limited. And, the weight of the car is far in excess of any existing V car. As the old saying goes, "You can't male a silk purse out of a sow's ear." That is what you would be trying to do if you attmept to turn a DTS into a V car.

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-17-10, 04:29 PM
Hm. Looks like Im a lone gun here.

Superjim
12-17-10, 04:54 PM
Hm. Looks like Im a lone gun here.

Maybe not...:) :)

I like mine to run well...and be above average performance wise...which is why I had the engine and transmission tuned.

But I would rather keep it looking like the other DTS's and draw a lot less attention from the cops..

Texas Jim

ffrog
12-17-10, 05:03 PM
maybe not...:) :)

i like mine to run well...and be above average performance wise...which is why i had the engine and transmission tuned.

But i would rather keep it looking like the other dts's and draw a lot less attention from the cops..

Texas jim

dito

ffrog
12-17-10, 05:04 PM
maybe not...:) :)

i like mine to run well...and be above average performance wise...which is why i had the engine and transmission tuned.

But i would rather keep it looking like the other dts's and draw a lot less attention from the cops..

Texas jim

DITO - and I'm an X cop

billdaman
12-18-10, 03:10 AM
Hm. Looks like Im a lone gun here. Nope...Its your ride. I feel uniquely qualified here as I did the tooling for the V series badges on both the Evoq and the CTS when I worked as an engineer for GM. People have been badging and debadging vehicles forever. As far as "V" Series vehicles being special, most but not all are. I would gladly play bumper tag with the 2005 CTS "V" series and my 2006 DTS any day of the week. (and put money down) By todays standards that particular CTS never deserved the badge.

Your DTS is not too heavy, its definately not a sows ear, and the only thing negative that I can think of to adding V series badges is that it dilutes the value of those vehicles on the road that have actually been RPO'd as V Series....but hey thats what having a modified vehicle is all about!

So badge away, and save up your change for the occasional conversation with ....a law enforcement official.

BTW seeing as though I have a few of these V series badges sitting in the basement ...I figured why not spread a little V series cheer to my fellow Cadillac owners, so I planted them right on the front fender of my white DTS, (looks great, comon squeel little white caddy!) No Officers taking note yet, but I will report out if they do!
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/billdaman/004.jpg

tedcmiller
12-18-10, 07:24 PM
Do you want try your 2006 "V" DTS against a 2009 CTS-V?

billdaman
12-19-10, 09:41 AM
Naw, read my post. Bottom line IMO is that its obvious to anyone that USSBlackPearlUSMC is a young serviceman currently serving his country.

Any ideas he has about modding his vehicle sound good to me. As a supporting member I feel that we should support his desire to mod his vehicle with what ever knowledge and expertise we can provide him. Maybe that is whats called for here in this particular instance, being "Supporting Members"

ffrog
12-19-10, 10:28 AM
Naw, read my post. Bottom line IMO is that its obvious to anyone that USSBlackPearlUSMC is a young serviceman currently serving his country.

Any ideas he has about modding his vehicle sound good to me. As a supporting member I feel that we should support his desire to mod his vehicle with what ever knowledge and expertise we can provide him. Maybe that is whats called for here in this particular instance, being "Supporting Members"

Very well put.

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-19-10, 12:20 PM
Well thank you much Gents, reasoning being is that I just traded my 3LT 06 Vette for this car.I bought the Vette after my first deployment to Iraq, and in April I am going to my 2nd in Afghan, and we just had a baby. The Vette just had to go, no baby seat and Iowa winters made it impossiable, and I use to have a STS V8-so back to Cadillac I went. I love the mesh grill, the rear spoiler and the slight cowl hood, if all that could fill the absence of my eyes and right foot needs (provide Baby NOT on aboard ship) then I think I would more than a happy camper, and Im sure hed love it as a first car because of its unquie-ness. Plus, as a Marine, I do not know of this word "impossiable". I have heard of these tunes-where does one start, contact, or come to touch with?

tedcmiller
12-19-10, 01:13 PM
I have no objection to someone "modding" their car, as long as they don't try to give the impression that it is something that it is not (a "V" car, for instance). I have the same reservations about CTS owners who put V badges on their stock CTSs.

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-19-10, 01:29 PM
I see what your saying, no, it not run with over Vs, but a tuned DTS has the power to overcome other vehicles. Lets say a Turbod northstar could walk over a Ecotech. I plan on taking this car to my finicial limit, because thats my hobby and passion (and job). If you have ever read Hot Rod or Car Craft, theres a Dare to be Differnt, well I plan on being very differnt. How often now-a-days does a Malibu turn into a Chevelle SS?(Ive even seen 4door wagons) Never made, but IMO, very cool. And I think a DTS-V would be very cool, and I know it can be done. Not over night, not cheaply, and not by one person. I mean could you see the smile on your face if you saw a video of a DTS spanking a Corvette, or STi? The Sleeper, "Never saw that comming", "DUDE DID YOU SEE THAT?!",or "I want one..." is what I live for. And the fact that it has massaging seats just makes it all the more sweeter. :)

billdaman
12-19-10, 01:51 PM
I have no objection to someone "modding" their car, as long as they don't try to give the impression that it is something that it is not (a "V" car, for instance). I have the same reservations about CTS owners who put V badges on their stock CTSs.

So I think what you are referring to is integrity in RPO codes because I personally put helped locate the badges on this Sales service and Marketing fiberglass mock up and it didnt even have an engine, so it was someones concept of "what could be"
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/billdaman/CadillacDTS-V.jpg

as differentiated from this (my) basement emblem donor:

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/billdaman/004.jpg
quite frankly I dont see any issue. Lutz didnt when he put the V series emblem on the 3.6L 2005 CTS. Later when he was busy driving the company towards bankruptcy he added some extreme HP to the series.

I just like how that $2.50 ea. "Made in Korea" V series emblem looks on my white DTS. It is super!

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-19-10, 02:38 PM
if it was a 69 Judge, I would be all about being orginal, but with a DTS, full on assualt, rounds down range. Screw it, "V" it, love it. If a Caliver and Trailblazer can be an SS, well by golly come heck or high water Ill be in the front line with the DTS. When I get back from Iraq, ill be sitting on plethra of cash and 3 months of time. I know someone will interject "Why not just buy something else?". My answer is, "Why have something that anyone else can?" Oohrah?

Superjim
12-19-10, 04:57 PM
if it was a 69 Judge, I would be all about being orginal, but with a DTS, full on assualt, rounds down range. Screw it, "V" it, love it. If a Caliver and Trailblazer can be an SS, well by golly come heck or high water Ill be in the front line with the DTS. When I get back from Iraq, ill be sitting on plethra of cash and 3 months of time. I know someone will interject "Why not just buy something else?". My answer is, "Why have something that anyone else can?" Oohrah?


The first thing I want to say is...THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.
The 2nd thing is...
Now, Dang it..."THAT'S" the attitude I like.. :thumbsup:
It is "YOUR" car...do with it whatever the heck you want to. :)
No one is paying for it but you...so make it "YOURS"..if someone else don't like it ... they can look the other way when you drive by with a big 'ol smile on your face.

I have tuned mine...It is so much more FUN to drive now.
I have also ran it at the dragstrip.
Best time so far...15.0..
Not bad for a 2.5 ton cruiser.. LOL
The problem I have is it spins too much coming off the line and can't get enough traction for a good launch.
I have never topped it out, but I have had it to 144..it was still pulling fairly good so there was a LITTLE BIT still left.

I was going to put the chrome fender well trim on it...but never did.
I was also going to get the spoiler for the trunk...but never did.

That was a couple of years ago...and I thought I was going to get a new one...but never did that either... LOL..

I will be getting a new one next year...and I plan to do to it, what I never did get around to doing to this one.

The absolute FIRST thing I will do is have it tuned by the same guy that tuned this one.

So...I say again...do whatever the heck you want to do to it.
It is yours...make it so... :)

If I can be of any help to you let me know.
Oh .. by the way...where are you located ?

Texas Jim

ffrog
12-19-10, 07:15 PM
The first thing I want to say is...THANK YOU FOR YOUR SERVICE.
The 2nd thing is...
Now, Dang it..."THAT'S" the attitude I like.. :thumbsup:
It is "YOUR" car...do with it whatever the heck you want to. :)
No one is paying for it but you...so make it "YOURS"..if someone else don't like it ... they can look the other way when you drive by with a big 'ol smile on your face.

I have tuned mine...It is so much more FUN to drive now.
I have also ran it at the dragstrip.
Best time so far...15.0..
Not bad for a 2.5 ton cruiser.. LOL
The problem I have is it spins too much coming off the line and can't get enough traction for a good launch.
I have never topped it out, but I have had it to 144..it was still pulling fairly good so there was a LITTLE BIT still left.

I was going to put the chrome fender well trim on it...but never did.
I was also going to get the spoiler for the trunk...but never did.

That was a couple of years ago...and I thought I was going to get a new one...but never did that either... LOL..

I will be getting a new one next year...and I plan to do to it, what I never did get around to doing to this one.

The absolute FIRST thing I will do is have it tuned by the same guy that tuned this one.

So...I say again...do whatever the heck you want to do to it.
It is yours...make it so... :)

If I can be of any help to you let me know.
Oh .. by the way...where are you located ?

Texas Jim

Ditto to what Jim says plus:

Bear in mind that others before us have fought so that we can (or not) put a V on our cars regardless of what others may think and regardless of the brand or paint them any color they want or mod them any way they want. That is why America is free. Vietnam vets returned to witness Americans demonstrating against the war they fought in so others COULD demonstrate.

SIMPER FI CYA and return safe and please do post pictures of your DTS-V as the work progresses.

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-19-10, 08:02 PM
Merry Christmas indeed gents. Naturally I would want to start where the Sir Texas Jim did, with a tune, however being in the midwest theres a lot of far and inbetween. I am stationed in Rock Island, IL as a mechanic, however I have never deployed for mechanics, Ive been set as security forces for convoys and the prisons. And to be honest, for a far cry, I want an AWD DTS. I know it can be done, but the question of how is another. Will it be worth it? Probably not, will I ever get it done? More than likely no, but oh, what an idea for an engineer. Quick bio, Ive been in the Marine Corps for 3 years, 4 in August. My first MOS was Combat engineer, served that for 18 months, then lat moved to 3500, I am now a 3524, and able to convoy and do roadside repairs. Its a good life.

tedcmiller
12-19-10, 11:46 PM
Any car that is not a V car, but carries misleading, stick-on V symbols, is still not a V car. There is not now a DTS-V and probably never will be (from the factory, that is). Those who wish to mislead others as to the type of car that they have, go right ahead. That is all I have to say, and I will not be reading this post again.

billdaman
12-20-10, 04:43 AM
I want an AWD DTS. I know it can be done, but the question of how is another. Will it be worth it? Probably not, will I ever get it done? More than likely no, but oh, what an idea for an engineer. Quick bio, Ive been in the Marine Corps for 3 years, 4 in August. My first MOS was Combat engineer, served that for 18 months, then lat moved to 3500, I am now a 3524, and able to convoy and do roadside repairs. Its a good life.

V away!

I can see how you would want an AWD if you have been working on Military vehicles! What types of vehicles do you have experience with? FMTV's, LAV's MRAPS, MATV's HUMVEES? They are all very cool.

I left GM to take a position with Lockheed Martin to wiork on the JLTV program for the past 3 years, very exciting work. You guys need vehicles that are light, transportable, blast resistant and need them yesterday. I hope whatever vehicle meets the Corps needs for all three of these attributes gets selected soon and is funded by Congress. HUMVEE's and MRAPS dont seem to be doing the job in the Afghan war.

383 LT1 SS
12-20-10, 11:49 AM
Money can do a lot in the world of hot rodding. Plan out what your goals are for the car. Do your research. Figure out your budget then triple it. I would love to see a DTS rip off some respectable 1/4 mile times. Dealing with a N* your options will be limited in a FWD configuration.

Good luck-
383 LT1 SS

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-21-10, 04:42 PM
I work on LAV, HUMs, MTVRS, MWRAPS and Dirtbikes (Kio diesels!) Thanks for the support gents. And im glad Mr Ted is no longer going to be reading this post. His bum-hum-ness has me quite ticked. When I get my DTS to a nice level, I guess I'll just have to find him and show him what a DTS-V performs like. I guess no one told him that Camaro SS was made by SLT(?) If im not mistaken (I could be, I didnt follow the later years much), but if thats true,no Camaro SS's either. My venting over, Im not here to argue, just fill my frail little mind with guidence, knowledge, and a pathway to building the baddest DTS known to man.

billdaman
12-21-10, 06:47 PM
with guidence, knowledge, and a pathway to building the baddest DTS known to man.

Now thats what Immmm talkin bout!!! Semper Fi bro. God speed to you and enjoy your Christmas we need so many more like you in this world!

Superjim
12-21-10, 09:30 PM
I work on LAV, HUMs, MTVRS, MWRAPS and Dirtbikes (Kio diesels!) Thanks for the support gents. And im glad Mr Ted is no longer going to be reading this post. His bum-hum-ness has me quite ticked. When I get my DTS to a nice level, I guess I'll just have to find him and show him what a DTS-V performs like. I guess no one told him that Camaro SS was made by SLT(?) If im not mistaken (I could be, I didnt follow the later years much), but if thats true,no Camaro SS's either. My venting over, Im not here to argue, just fill my frail little mind with guidence, knowledge, and a pathway to building the baddest DTS known to man.


Check this one out...especially after 2.15 .. :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z2lM5SdMVlc

Texas Jim

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-22-10, 12:16 AM
I retract my last statement, between 2nd and 5th baddest DTS, mother of God! Those poor, poor tires! Man I love that thing! Thanks Jim, that made my day a million times better, Id love to meet the guy who has that car now. Thats what I call a well balanced car haha.

Superjim
12-22-10, 06:39 AM
I retract my last statement, between 2nd and 5th baddest DTS, mother of God! Those poor, poor tires! Man I love that thing! Thanks Jim, that made my day a million times better, Id love to meet the guy who has that car now. Thats what I call a well balanced car haha.


They sold it on ebay after they finished it...
I don't remember the price.

I would "LOVE" to have that thing... :thumbsup:
I would put some quieter mufflers on it and make it a lot more of a sleeper... :) :)

Ted probably STILL wouldn't like that one either..'cause it "DIDN'T COME THAT WAY FROM THE FACTORY"...:stirpot:

Jim

HartfordGuy
12-22-10, 10:18 AM
ted probably still wouldn't like that one either..'cause it "didn't come that way from the factory"...:stirpot:

Jim

ROFLOL :histeric:

Rusty058
12-22-10, 05:30 PM
http://i230.photobucket.com/albums/ee240/Rusty058/LOLROFL.gif

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-22-10, 08:42 PM
hahaha. I wonder how they did the underpinning of the car. Ive been thinking a lot about the AWD. I think it cant be that difficult to put an IRS in and drive shaft because of the "tranny hump" for the exhaust, and the rear (correct me if I am wrong) is already setup in a IRS fashion. I wonder if they made that one that way, or if they put in a solid rear with leave or left it coil and spring. They must have fab.ed up a front member. What I was thinking is that they made an STS-V AWD (Well I know they had an STS AWD, and a V, not sure if you could get them ordered together or not, I doubt it but dont remember). If they have throw a 572 and made it RWD, and I could throw in a 4.4 with AWD....some how....some way.....Jim? Ive made a truck 4WD, but thats a truck, and is so simple, anyone have any AWD experience? Im all excited now and cant wait to get back from Afghan!

Superjim
12-22-10, 09:23 PM
hahaha. I wonder how they did the underpinning of the car. Ive been thinking a lot about the AWD. I think it cant be that difficult to put an IRS in and drive shaft because of the "tranny hump" for the exhaust, and the rear (correct me if I am wrong) is already setup in a IRS fashion. I wonder if they made that one that way, or if they put in a solid rear with leave or left it coil and spring. They must have fab.ed up a front member. What I was thinking is that they made an STS-V AWD (Well I know they had an STS AWD, and a V, not sure if you could get them ordered together or not, I doubt it but dont remember). If they have throw a 572 and made it RWD, and I could throw in a 4.4 with AWD....some how....some way.....Jim? Ive made a truck 4WD, but thats a truck, and is so simple, anyone have any AWD experience? Im all excited now and cant wait to get back from Afghan!

If I was gonna do it...
I would start with a CRATE ENGINE from GM...they have a tremendous selection of engines from mild to wild.
That 572 is a GM crate engine.

Then a BUILT 6 speed GM automatic tranny... then use a 9 inch Ford rear end.
The 9 inch Ford is really tough and hard to tear up...plus the gear ratio selection is really good.

Everything else would just be fabrication to fit and bolting and wiring everything up.
Not saying it would be cheap or easy...but it shouldn't be TOO bad.... depending on how much money you had and how much you are capable of doing yourself.
The more you can do yourself...the better.
I would want to do as much of it "MYSELF" as I was capable of doing.
That way...It will be more "YOURS" and not something you had "SOMEONE ELSE" do and you just paid for it.

Jim

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-23-10, 07:05 PM
I would loved a 572 Beast. I have a rebuilt 500 in a 80 Coupe DeVille, love the tq. Gotta keep it Caddy though, love the sleeper style. I agree with the Ford rearend and the 6spd. I stick would be fun play with, haha, thats hot water talk..

383 LT1 SS
12-27-10, 12:07 PM
I would like to see the underpinnings of that car and how they built that transplant. I would think that an LSX mouse motor would be a good choice as well. A lot less weight and paired with having the heads ported and a good cam matched to the heads would make some nice power. Very cool ride indeed.

383 LT1 SS

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-27-10, 09:06 PM
Im guessing they probably just made a roller tube chassis and built it to fit. Id also would like to a picture of the underpinnings. Being a large shop, as it seems to be, they probably have everything needed, so an average Joe Schmo like me wouldnt be able to do it easily. Maybe they bolted up some leafs. If anyone had a underside picture of the car it would all of us to make rearwheel conversation easier, and if someone had CAD, hell, we could do this.

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-27-10, 09:46 PM
My Dealer called today. He said he got a trade in. an STS4,fully loaded, even nav, with the Northstar. 07, 35k miles, 13.5k. Thinking about moving my project over. Not sure what to do yet, my heart is lying is putting the money in the DTS, but I dont know if I can stray away from a rare Caddy as such. Gents?

GizmoQ
12-27-10, 10:06 PM
My Dealer called today. He said he got a trade in. an STS4,fully loaded, even nav, with the Northstar. 07, 35k miles, 13.5k. Thinking about moving my project over. Not sure what to do yet, my heart is lying is putting the money in the DTS, but I dont know if I can stray away from a rare Caddy as such. Gents?

I'm building an ESC-V, seen posts about Escalade ESV-V, and Catera-V, why not a DTS-V!!!
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/attachment.php?attachmentid=62780&d=1237434903

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-28-10, 08:25 AM
Id love to put those headlights on my ETC, whered you get those?

ltdltc
12-28-10, 10:41 AM
GM considered an AWD DTS-V however they said they couldn't do it without issues (and probably budget concerns).

Read about it here (http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/wip/0905wip02.html).

GizmoQ
12-28-10, 02:28 PM
Id love to put those headlights on my ETC, whered you get those?

That's an old, old mod.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-detailing-appearance-modificationinterior-exterior-including/48308-headlight-mod-deamon-eyed-sts.html

And it's definitely not plug and play. I thought building the V-grille was tough, opening up the sheetmetal, grinding away part of the radiator support, then resizing the corner lights to fit these in was a pain.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-seville-cadillac-eldorado-forum/145063-head-light-modification.html#post1611140

Rusty058
12-28-10, 07:10 PM
GM considered an AWD DTS-V however they said they couldn't do it without issues (and probably budget concerns).

Read about it here (http://www.autofieldguide.com/articles/wip/0905wip02.html).


Thanks for posting Itdltc,extremly interesting

billdaman
12-28-10, 09:19 PM
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/billdaman/CadillacDTS-V.jpg

thats what im talkin bout!

383 LT1 SS
12-29-10, 02:10 PM
Intresting article that might be of interest.

http://www.hotrod.com/pitstop/hrdp_1006_northstar_cadillac_engine_buildup_questi on/index.html

383 LT1 SS

billdaman
12-29-10, 05:17 PM
Intresting article that might be of interest.

http://www.hotrod.com/pitstop/hrdp_1006_northstar_cadillac_engine_buildup_questi on/index.html

383 LT1 SS

LT 1 that is a very very nice article. Thanks for posting it.
Your web name reminds me of a old friend that I miss very much... LOL

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/billdaman/roadmonster.jpg

TulsaVic
12-29-10, 07:48 PM
One of THEE coolest cars I ever saw was back in the late '60's, walking to a college class, when I came upon a new, relatively drab looking--the color was battleship gray with minimal chrome--Plymouth Belvadere. As I got closer I noted that the tires looked awfully beefy for a basic 4-door sedan. Then I noticed the dual exhausts: They were the size of gutter downspouts. What the ???? Then I saw the tiny emblem just behind the front wheel well. It said "HEMI". Now that was cool. But to take a basic sedan and tart it up with badging that just doesn't fit? Sorry. I'm with Ted. Might as well throw in fart can mufflers too.....

GizmoQ
12-29-10, 09:30 PM
... But to take a basic sedan and tart it up with badging that just doesn't fit? Sorry. I'm with Ted. Might as well throw in fart can mufflers too.....

The OP never said just badge it up. He's wanting performance, too. As soon as I can get some decent brackets fabbed up I'm putting a TRD centifugal supercharger on mine, not looking to double the HP, but 6 Lbs of boost can easily be tuned into the stock motor.

billdaman
12-29-10, 09:45 PM
I'm with Ted. Might as well throw in fart can mufflers too.....

I agree you are with Ted

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-29-10, 09:45 PM
Show a V8 with a fart can. Tell me a DTS doesnt have grunt as it is. No one can tell me it doesnt deserve a V badge. theres nothing to compare it to thats been factory.

GizmoQ
12-29-10, 11:58 PM
Show a V8 with a fart can. Tell me a DTS doesnt have grunt as it is. No one can tell me it doesnt deserve a V badge. theres nothing to compare it to thats been factory.

Before we get too far off topic, let's review the criteria for a V. From all the sources I could find, the following requirements must be met as a minimum:

"Cadillac has, however, laid out the criteria on which the V-ness can be judged. First of all, V-series Cadillac vehicles must be capable of accelerating from 0-60 mph in less than 5 seconds. All three Cadillac Vs have in excess of 400 hp. Second, it must have a racetrack-tuned suspension. Third, they must also have racing brakes. Last but certainly not least, it must have the signature V styling." - From a C&D document from long ago.

That said, Brembo wanted $3800 to refit my brakes - NOT! Oops, sorry, lost my train of thought.

O.K. so how do we fit the DTS into those criteria. As with all cars, the styling cues are easy. The suspension requires a little work. The brakes can be beefed up with the proper rotors and pads. Where are we on that 0-60?

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-30-10, 03:28 PM
Around 7 or 8. Ask Jim, his has been tunned and Im sure he has some other mods. Hes been what Ive been basing my ideas, he knows whats up.

USSBlackPearlUSMC
12-30-10, 03:29 PM
but thank you for that insight, Ive never read that before, it was interesting.

Superjim
12-30-10, 06:12 PM
Around 7 or 8. Ask Jim, his has been tunned and Im sure he has some other mods. Hes been what Ive been basing my ideas, he knows whats up.

My best 0 to 60 has has been 6 flat...:)
Not in "V" territory..but not too shabby for a two and a half ton cruiser.
My best 1/4 mile has been 15.01 sec
I have better tires on it now...and will try again in the spring.

I want to get in the 14's...:stirpot:

Texas Jim

USSBlackPearlUSMC
01-02-11, 09:13 PM
Jim- the 4.4 Northstar, the supercharger/heads. Can they be put on a 4.6?
Or retro fit VVT?

GizmoQ
01-02-11, 09:54 PM
Jim- the 4.4 Northstar, the supercharger/heads. Can they be put on a 4.6?
Or retro fit VVT?

VVT won't fit, its longer. Reference post: (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/northstar-performance-technical-discussion/122164-00-03-engine-98-99-seville.html)

Superjim
01-03-11, 06:22 AM
Jim- the 4.4 Northstar, the supercharger/heads. Can they be put on a 4.6?
Or retro fit VVT?

Nope...won't fit.
Different design.
VVT won't work either...same problem.

Jim

ltdltc
01-03-11, 02:28 PM
If I were to build a DTS. I'd lose the Northstar. Its decent but in FWD configuration your options are limited. The LD8 version can be upgraded to the L37 heads but thats pretty much it.

So I'd source a 3800 powered Lucerne swap the subframe. Build it up with a top swap, upgrade the trans and maybe turbo it and your looking at almost 370+ HP at the crank with the right cam/headers and whatnot.

Superjim
01-03-11, 03:29 PM
If I were to build a DTS. I'd lose the Northstar. Its decent but in FWD configuration your options are limited. The LD8 version can be upgraded to the L37 heads but thats pretty much it.

So I'd source a 3800 powered Lucerne swap the subframe. Build it up with a top swap, upgrade the trans and maybe turbo it and your looking at almost 370+ HP at the crank with the right cam/headers and whatnot.

I have around 330 hp out of my Northstar...
You would be spending a ton of money for only 40HP more.
Doesn't look cost effective to me.

Jim

383 LT1 SS
01-03-11, 04:04 PM
I have around 330 hp out of my Northstar...
You would be spending a ton of money for only 40HP more.
Doesn't look cost effective to me.

Jim


Jim,

Are you running the stock exhaust? You probably could find a few extra ponies by opening up the exhaust. In addition, since headers are not available you could have a set of stock exhaust manifolds extrude honed to open them up a bit. Just a thought.

383 LT1 SS

ltdltc
01-03-11, 04:09 PM
I don't think it would be that much.

3800s are very well known to really wake up with bolt-ons. Superchargers will get up to the 370+ range. Turboing will take you 400+. You would need to beef up the 4T65E-HD but it is doable and for the foreseeable moment its more feasible if your looking for real performance then whats available for the FWD Northstar.

Because of how many there are the prices for the parts aren't in the stratosphere.

Just saying thats how I'd do it.

Superjim
01-03-11, 04:16 PM
Jim,

Are you running the stock exhaust? You probably could find a few extra ponies by opening up the exhaust. In addition, since headers are not available you could have a set of stock exhaust manifolds extrude honed to open them up a bit. Just a thought.

383 LT1 SS

Dang...never thought about having the exhaust manifolds honed... THAT is a great idea.
I have been threatening to put another exhaust system on it.
I know a REALLY GOOD exhaust guy that does first class work.
He ain't cheap...but he "IS" good.

Jim

Superjim
01-03-11, 04:19 PM
I don't think it would be that much.

3800s are very well known to really wake up with bolt-ons. Superchargers will get up to the 370+ range. Turboing will take you 400+. You would need to beef up the 4T65E-HD but it is doable and for the foreseeable moment its more feasible if your looking for real performance then whats available for the FWD Northstar.

Because of how many there are the prices for the parts aren't in the stratosphere.

Just saying thats how I'd do it.

Wasn't thinking of it THAT way..but you are right.
The GN used a turbo on a 3.8 and that thing was quick...my Dad had one.

Jim

USSBlackPearlUSMC
01-03-11, 05:59 PM
I have a 03 Monte SS Pace Car, got a 3.8 SUPERCharger (its was more affordable, easier to install) and I love it. It has higher compression heads than the factory supercharged ones, and I think its a little spunkier too. I would like to have turbo'd it, but at the time it was out of my budget, that would be a unquie route to take. A boosted 6cyl,awd, and a 5spd, oh WRX--stand by. hahaha. Lets get some lotto tickets.

ltdltc
01-03-11, 06:12 PM
Wasn't thinking of it THAT way..but you are right.
The GN used a turbo on a 3.8 and that thing was quick...my Dad had one.

Jim

You can buy complete used 3.8L engines varying from Lacrosse/Lucerne/Grand Prix with under 30k miles for less then $500.


I was thinking that there is always the option of turbocharging the DTS with this:

S T S (http://www.ststurbo.com/)

But thats just brainstorming. I'm happy with what the car can do.

Unless serious work can be done to firm up the suspension I just don't see myself wanting to make my car faster. Better passive suspension is needed, though I'm quite thrilled that the Monroes have made the car more stable and exciting to drive.

Superjim
01-03-11, 09:58 PM
You can buy complete used 3.8L engines varying from Lacrosse/Lucerne/Grand Prix with under 30k miles for less then $500.


I was thinking that there is always the option of turbocharging the DTS with this:

S T S (http://www.ststurbo.com/)

But thats just brainstorming. I'm happy with what the car can do.

Unless serious work can be done to firm up the suspension I just don't see myself wanting to make my car faster. Better passive suspension is needed, though I'm quite thrilled that the Monroes have made the car more stable and exciting to drive.

I seem to remember that you changed the shocks and struts in another thread.
Mine is the Performance Sedan with the Mag Ride suspension.
To me...there is a world of difference between the two different suspensions.
The MAG RIDE is so much firmer, controllable and just more fun to drive.
It will stay level on corners and curves and not lean like the standard suspension does.

When I get my next one...it too will have the MAG RIDE.
THAT is one of the requirements. :cloud9:

USSBlackPearlUSMC
01-03-11, 11:11 PM
The MRC in my STS was awesome. But the FWD pillow ride in the Lux III, to me, because its not as good, makes it fun for me. Its the challenge I enjoy, the Whhooooaaaa buddy!! Handles like an old muscle car haha.

C/O TS
01-04-11, 10:16 PM
I'd like to see more performance options for the DTS. I don't have one yet, but it'll happen sooner or later (I'm getting deployed this year too). I believe that anything can be modified; the only things that limit you are your mechanical skills, money, and time. I have a '91 Mustang GT and wanted to put 18 in. rims on it when no one thought it was feasible or possible. I did my research, asked around (both the right/wrong people), crunched some numbers, bought the parts, and took them to my mechanic. No rubbing or any of the "so called" problems that the naysayers said would happen. A minor accomplishment, but still the same thing. Good luck with your progress when you get back! Check this link out:

http://www.radrides.com/home.php

If there's someone who believes that anything can be done, it's this guy!

GizmoQ
01-04-11, 11:52 PM
I believe that anything can be modified; the only things that limit you are your mechanical skills, money, and time. I have a '91 Mustang GT and wanted to put 18 in. rims on it when no one thought it was feasible or possible. A minor accomplishment, but still the same thing. Good luck with your progress when you get back!

I did the same thing with my 91 Mustang Vert :thumbsup: Then I put AMG wheels on it!
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/imagehosting/1310745f7978872b1f.jpg

Nothing is impossible. You should see the cockpit in the above ESC-V (http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/imagehosting/13107493da92a3caf6.jpg). Hell its even got LED Tailights. (http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/imagehosting/131074a98485b7db80.jpg)

Lev Blekher
01-05-11, 03:20 AM
Nice. I'm investigating options for making my DeVille more powerful so I can't wait to see what you guys come up with.

383 LT1 SS
01-05-11, 09:02 AM
I'd like to see more performance options for the DTS. I don't have one yet, but it'll happen sooner or later (I'm getting deployed this year too). I believe that anything can be modified; the only things that limit you are your mechanical skills, money, and time. I have a '91 Mustang GT and wanted to put 18 in. rims on it when no one thought it was feasible or possible. I did my research, asked around (both the right/wrong people), crunched some numbers, bought the parts, and took them to my mechanic. No rubbing or any of the "so called" problems that the naysayers said would happen. A minor accomplishment, but still the same thing. Good luck with your progress when you get back! Check this link out:

http://www.radrides.com/home.php

If there's someone who believes that anything can be done, it's this guy!


I have actually been on a tour of RadRides. Troy builds some really awesome cars. If your local give them a call. They will give you a shop tour.

383 LT1 SS

1BadCadSTS
01-05-11, 11:06 AM
Seville/Deville Corsa exhaust will work on the DTS with very little mod.

USSBlackPearlUSMC
01-05-11, 09:45 PM
Is this youre first deployment?

USSBlackPearlUSMC
01-05-11, 09:45 PM
I did the same thing with my 91 Mustang Vert :thumbsup: Then I put AMG wheels on it!
http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/imagehosting/1310745f7978872b1f.jpg

Nothing is impossible. You should see the cockpit in the above ESC-V (http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/imagehosting/13107493da92a3caf6.jpg). Hell its even got LED Tailights. (http://www.mp3car.com/vbulletin/imagehosting/131074a98485b7db80.jpg)

I think youre really James Bond

GizmoQ
01-05-11, 10:46 PM
I think youre really James Bond

When I'm done with the XLR, James Bond could only dream about having anything close.

http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad271/GizmoQ/European%20Vacation/FireFox/JAKE/th_Jakeskull0318x6.jpg?t=1294285505

TulsaVic
01-06-11, 01:45 PM
It's amazing how words can get distorted (in another post, Ted, you were accused of being against "tuning" cars). As I've said before, I'm against the phony badging. I mean, why not call it a "Z". Or maybe a Rolls-Royce. At the very least, mod or tune a car that actually comes in a "V", like the STS. Of course in this age of artificially puffed lips, nips and tucks and inflatables, I guess you'd have to expect the same kind of phoniness with cars.....

USSBlackPearlUSMC
01-06-11, 07:03 PM
It's amazing how words can get distorted (in another post, Ted, you were accused of being against "tuning" cars). As I've said before, I'm against the phony badging. I mean, why not call it a "Z". Or maybe a Rolls-Royce. At the very least, mod or tune a car that actually comes in a "V", like the STS. Of course in this age of artificially puffed lips, nips and tucks and inflatables, I guess you'd have to expect the same kind of phoniness with cars.....

In my defense

A) I never seen a pair of fake boobs I never like
B) If its real enough to see and touch, well, it must be real.

I mean, if I saw a Vega "SS" with a 454 in it, call it a 'phonie' or a 'fake', well, its quite rude. Call it a 'bad@$$ car' is quite nice. If it runs under 14 seconds, wouldnt it have EARNED its badge?

I have never been given a ribbon I never earned, and I dont plan to 'pin' my car as such.

Theres DTS guys that want to be in the V-Club and wear the members only jacket, even if we have to build and engineer it ourselves. If a CTS guy wanted a delegance or presidential, would people say, No, youre wrong. More than likely not, im guessing. If you traded in a C6 Corvette Z51, would you want more oohmph and hang with the other Caddies?

Stand by nay-sayers. My Caddy may bring the the Mayan Due Date :) haha

383 LT1 SS
01-07-11, 09:14 AM
It's amazing how words can get distorted (in another post, Ted, you were accused of being against "tuning" cars). As I've said before, I'm against the phony badging. I mean, why not call it a "Z". Or maybe a Rolls-Royce. At the very least, mod or tune a car that actually comes in a "V", like the STS. Of course in this age of artificially puffed lips, nips and tucks and inflatables, I guess you'd have to expect the same kind of phoniness with cars.....

With all due respect are you fimiliar with the world of hot-rodding? Since the begining of hot-rodding people have modified all types & makes of cars. Different paint schemes, engine combos & yes different badging. Take a look at what a clone Chevelle SS will fetch. Go to a car show and you will see for yourself. Hot-Rodding is a hobby of personal taste. Sure I have seen a lot of cars that were awesome however they were not to my liking but I respected the work that was put into them. I say mod away. What are you going to say when some one has a DTS into the 11's ? Dont think it can be done? I bet it can if someone has the desire and the $$. One thing to remember in this world is there is always someone with more money & a faster car than you. There's no taking away that the V's are awesome cars so wouldn't copying one be the ulitmate compliment?

383 LT1 SS

Superjim
01-07-11, 12:12 PM
Here is an older deVille...totally street legal...
Very impressive :) :)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HicEU9snPcc

Jim

TulsaVic
01-07-11, 01:25 PM
If you want to understand my point, go to carsonline.com and look at Pontiac listings in the mid to late 1960's. You'll find GTO's. They've been beefed up suspension and engine-wise, but they were built as GTO's and so they're labeled and being sold as such, even with the powertrain improvements. Then there are the other GTO's. They have had GTO engines and transmissions and suspensions installed. Even had the GTO front and backends installed. But they were built as LeMan's and so they are labeled "GTO Clones" and being sold as clones. They are not GTO's.

So hot rod your DTS as much as you want. Heck, put in a 1000hp PT6 jet engine like someone did in one of the Datony races a few years ago. You'll be able to surprise the poop out of everyone at a stop light. You'll have a fantastic hot rod. And you can put "V's" on every square inch of sheet metal. But you won't have a "V". You'll have a suped up DTS with V's all over it.....

Superjim
01-07-11, 01:44 PM
There ain't no emblems or badges on mine...except what came on it.

It is a DTS and that is what it will always be.
It might be a little "QUICKER" DTS than most of the others...but it is still a FWD, big ol' heavy DTS.
It can't be anything else...

I am thinking of getting a 2010 CYS "V"... but that's another story for another time.
Undecided at this time on keeping the DTS or not.
I really do like driving it.

Texas Jim

RicktheRealtor
01-07-11, 04:19 PM
Holy Cow! Pretty impressive. Although I must admit, it does look a little funny; not your run of the mill Deville. But I bet the owner is having fun and is proud of the work he put into her. Nothing wrong with that.

concorso
01-07-11, 05:26 PM
quite frankly I dont see any issue. Lutz didnt when he put the V series emblem on the 3.6L 2005 CTS. Later when he was busy driving the company towards bankruptcy he added some extreme HP to the series.V badges were never put on the V6 CTS from the factory. Any V6 that had V badges were wither owner or dealer installed.

GizmoQ
01-07-11, 08:35 PM
So hot rod your DTS as much as you want. Heck, put in a 1000hp PT6 jet engine like someone did in one of the Datony races a few years ago. You'll be able to surprise the poop out of everyone at a stop light. You'll have a fantastic hot rod. And you can put "V's" on every square inch of sheet metal. But you won't have a "V". You'll have a suped up DTS with V's all over it.....

Apples and oranges! The V is a designation not a model. There is a GM criteria that I spoke of earlier to qualify for the designation and there is no restriction as to model or year. There are specific models and years that GM built to this standard, but that's not to say the rest of us aren't allowed.

I bet with a car that met every criteria and the appropriate documentation, I could get someone at the GM Performance Division to write a proclamation that that car is a V. Then what's your argument.

TulsaVic
01-07-11, 08:50 PM
Do it. And then we'll talk.....

USSBlackPearlUSMC
01-07-11, 10:19 PM
Apples and oranges! The V is a designation not a model. There is a GM criteria that I spoke of earlier to qualify for the designation and there is no restriction as to model or year. There are specific models and years that GM built to this standard, but that's not to say the rest of us aren't allowed.

I bet with a car that met every criteria and the appropriate documentation, I could get someone at the GM Performance Division to write a proclamation that that car is a V. Then what's your argument.

Never thought of that, it does seem like a far stretch, but it would truely be a feet, and very cool. There are a lot fo good arguments since the last time I logged on. The GTO was a good example, because LeMans and GTOs were the same car, just VINS and options, (Well minus 64 when GTO was an option on the Le Mans). Same thing but differnt, so I see what your getting at.

I didnt know it would be such a touchy subject. I guess purest and hot rodders will always have a differnt point of veiw, but at least we can all share a common passion

GizmoQ
01-08-11, 12:10 AM
Never thought of that, it does seem like a far stretch, but it would truely be a feet, and very cool. There are a lot fo good arguments since the last time I logged on. The GTO was a good example, because LeMans and GTOs were the same car, just VINS and options, (Well minus 64 when GTO was an option on the Le Mans). Same thing but differnt, so I see what your getting at.

I didnt know it would be such a touchy subject. I guess purest and hot rodders will always have a differnt point of veiw, but at least we can all share a common passion
Agreed. Just watched "Mustang Boss 302: Ford Remakes a Legend" on SpeedTV and thought of this discussion. Many would say the new BOSS shouldn't wear the badging cause it new - a remake, but I thought it brought back fond memories of when I drove the original BOSS.

You're right everyone's entitled to their opinion. And there's no law against modding your own car. So I'll go back to lurking and just watch for your progress.

billdaman
01-08-11, 11:25 AM
V badges were never put on the V6 CTS from the factory. Any V6 that had V badges were wither owner or dealer installed.

You are correct, I was mistakenly refering to my time in Manufacturing engineering at GM when Lutz wanted to badges put on a 03 CTS at the GM Design Studio. Me being the guy with the badge tooling for LGR assembly , Bowling Green, etc got given the task to bring some emblems over that I had used for mounting on the "EVOQ" or XLR to the Design Studio and locating / sticking them on the fenders for a photo shoot.

I also did the tooling for the CTS on the production line for the first 1st CTS V as well as the GM Performance sticker that goes under hood. Somehow I still have lots of the emblems sitting in my basement from tooling trials. You are completely correct on the V6 V V8. I remember visiting the plant for job 1 on the CTS V series and loved the way that V8 engine filled the bay and the grille...and I got to be the emblem sticker man then

And I am still the sticker man! and I will do what I damm well please with my Caddy...man those cheap Korean V series emblems look good on a White DTS

cardio-doc
01-17-11, 02:54 PM
Hm. Looks like Im a lone gun here.

Nah, you're not alone.


http://i244.photobucket.com/albums/gg39/howard9999/2010-1.jpg

USSBlackPearlUSMC
01-18-11, 09:42 PM
Thats an extremly tuff looking DTS, very sharp

383 LT1 SS
01-19-11, 07:48 AM
Love the blacked out look. Very nice indeed.

383 LT1 SS

c5 rv
01-19-11, 01:15 PM
It's interesting to see some enthusiast interest in the DTS from the young (and young at heart). There's nothing wrong with folks who value a luxury vehicle for how it came from the factory (I've become that way), but it's exciting to see folks want to tweak the looks or performance. However, I reserve the right express my opinion on ugly mods. The Lexus LS430 world has the VIP look (big wheels, dropped, body kits, etc.) which I don't care for, but it's exciting to see their interest in the car.

Jesda
01-19-11, 09:49 PM
Performance upgrades for FWD Northstar cars have been limited for a few reasons:

1. Onboard computers and integrated systems are a challenge
2. Lack of aftermarket support
3. Most feel that 275-300hp is sufficient for enjoyable driving and highway passing
4. Modification funds are instead spent on expensive repairs

But, it takes only a few creative and talented people to overcome design and engineering challenges.


I'm not crazy about add-on badges and emblems, but if you're having fun then so be it.

Stingroo
01-20-11, 12:37 AM
^ True that.

More power to you, man. It's your car, do as you please. :D

cardio-doc
01-20-11, 03:31 PM
Thanks!

billdaman
09-28-11, 10:47 AM
You are correct, I was mistakenly refering to my time in Manufacturing engineering at GM when Lutz wanted to badges put on a 03 CTS at the GM Design Studio. Me being the guy with the badge tooling for LGR assembly , Bowling Green, etc got given the task to bring some emblems over that I had used for mounting on the "EVOQ" or XLR to the Design Studio and locating / sticking them on the fenders for a photo shoot.

I also did the tooling for the CTS on the production line for the first 1st CTS V as well as the GM Performance sticker that goes under hood. Somehow I still have lots of the emblems sitting in my basement from tooling trials. You are completely correct on the V6 V V8. I remember visiting the plant for job 1 on the CTS V series and loved the way that V8 engine filled the bay and the grille...and I got to be the emblem sticker man then

And I am still the sticker man! and I will do what I damm well please with my Caddy...man those cheap Korean V series emblems look good on a White DTS

Thought I would try to return some sanity to the discussion. Owned the DTS 1 year this Oct. NEVER have had a single comment in 1 year about the badges, just a lot of "Nice Car" comments.

I had the V badges in my basement, never made much of an effort to put them on, wanted to see how the things looked on a DTS and I liked them. The badges are cheap Korean junk. They represent nothing but an RPO code and a marketing income generation, but they look good on my Cadillac, so I left them in place.

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/billdaman/004.jpg http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b121/billdaman/001.jpg

Superjim
09-28-11, 10:53 AM
That's a good looking automobile sir...:cool2:

My guess is that there is only a very very tiny percentage, of the entire population of the entire country that even know what a "V" badge represents.

I would guess that at least 99 percent of people that see it, probably just think that it means a V8... if they think anything at all.

Jim

billdaman
09-28-11, 11:09 AM
That's a good looking automobile sir...:cool2:

My guess is that there is only a very very tiny percentage, of the entire population of the entire country that even know what a "V" badge represents.

I would guess that at least 99 percent of people that see it, probably just think that it means a V8... if they think anything at all.

Jim

Thats so true Jim...it just looks like a nice emblem in the Cadillac color scheme - BTW wanted to mention this:

I CONTACTED THE FORUM MODERATOR AND NOTIFIED HIM THAT IF SOMETHING IS NOT DONE ABOUT TED C MILLER AND HIS CONSTANT HARASSMENT OF FORUM MEMBERS THAN I WILL CANCEL MY SUPPORTING MEMBERSHIP BEGINNGING OCT 1 2011. Something has to be done aboutthat guy. He has been harassing you and many of the other forum members for at least a year and nothing happens to him. He should be removed form the forum.

Fasciaguy
09-28-11, 11:12 AM
I think you will find the biggest problem with trying to Mod the DTS is the biggest difference from the DTS and all the Vee vehicles is its FWD. Trying to mate 400+ hp to a transaxle has proven to be difficult. Not saying it cant be done. You just loose a level driveability. Not to mention some of the biggest complaints of Vee series cars are things that they should have, like a stiffer ride a louder engine and exhaust note. All things that contradict the essence of the DTS. Or just wait until GM releases the alpha+ program which replaces the DTS and has a Vee version planned. Kind of a BMW 7 series competitor.

Superjim
09-28-11, 11:43 AM
Thats so true Jim...it just looks like a nice emblem in the Cadillac color scheme - BTW wanted to mention this:

I CONTACTED THE FORUM MODERATOR AND NOTIFIED HIM THAT IF SOMETHING IS NOT DONE ABOUT TED C MILLER AND HIS CONSTANT HARASSMENT OF FORUM MEMBERS THAN I WILL CANCEL MY SUPPORTING MEMBERSHIP BEGINNGING OCT 1 2011. Something has to be done aboutthat guy. He has been harassing you and many of the other forum members for at least a year and nothing happens to him. He should be removed form the forum.

Thanks.. I appreciate that.
He is a pain in rear over here.
His "WIFE" drives a DTS... but "HE" don't know much about them.
He just thinks he does and always raises sand if anyone wants to do something that "HE" don't particularly like...
Seems like he just wants to cause hate and discontent.

If he never comes back over here... it will be a blessing...:thumbsup: :thumbsup: :thumbsup:

Texas Jim

HartfordGuy
09-28-11, 12:59 PM
Agreed. Ted goes crazy if someone deviates from the factory, yet his "wife" has a gold vintage edition package on their DTS. So i guess we know who wears the pants in the house eh? Unfortunately he takes out his frustration on us here.

Superjim
09-28-11, 01:46 PM
Agreed. Ted goes crazy if someone deviates from the factory, yet his "wife" has a gold vintage edition package on their DTS.
So i guess we know who wears the pants in the house eh?
Unfortunately he takes out his frustration on us here.

There is a word for that... actually TWO words...
One of them is "WHIPPED" and I can't quite remember the other one...:histeric: :histeric:

Texas Jim

HartfordGuy
09-28-11, 04:49 PM
There is a word for that... actually TWO words...
One of them is "WHIPPED" and I can't quite remember the other one...:histeric: :histeric:

Texas Jim

Bingo! :highfive: