: Traction Control Light On! Need Help for my fwb.



96brougham13
12-15-10, 10:38 PM
Recently my traction control light has been on in my 96 fleetwood brougham. Traction control does not work either. Trouble codes say 04-64. That is throttle position sensor malfunction. I tested the tps with a volt meter after i replaced it and one wire says 5v and one goes from .71v up to just about 5v, which i believe is normal. Now after i replaced it nothing changed. The caddy runs fine and doesn't seem to be using anymore gas than before (18+mpg).

Does anyone know what is going on?

96brougham13
12-16-10, 07:07 PM
somebody must know something. I just need a hint in the right direction. Also if it helps my cruse control still works fine

drmenard
12-17-10, 12:04 AM
If its not a wiring problem , then it could be the EBTCM... Not sure where it is on a 96... on a 94 it's under the dash.. If I remember right the 95 is under the hood next to the pump... I'm guessing it is under the hood on yours... I got one here that I'm looking at... out of a 94..... it's a Bosch, part number
0 265 106 098.... OR it could be the throttle position sensor interface module... I don't have a clue where that is... Calling the Fleetwoodguy... whats your take on this?

thefleetwoodguy
12-17-10, 12:05 AM
the first problem I see is
you say your car is a 1996 which is the first year for
obd2, yet your giving a fault code for obd1
so is your car a 95 by chance??

thefleetwoodguy
12-17-10, 12:07 AM
the throttle position sensor interface module
Read more at http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/rwd-19xx-1984-deville-fleetwood-1985/217594-traction-control-light-need-help-my.html?ktrack=kcplinkI think thats attached to the accumulator
on the pass side fender, aluminum "can" looking thing

thefleetwoodguy
12-17-10, 12:30 AM
95 and 96 the ebtcm is located attached to
the brake abs motor under hood drivers side
93+94 its up under the dash drivers side

I would start by testing the wheel speed sensors
white(yellowed) bullit connectors near each wheel
they should be around 1000-1200 ohms
have some one wiggle the wires as you watch the meter
they are often intermittent , if there under 1000 ohms or 0 replace the wheels sensor, the drivers side front seem to be the most common i m o

thefleetwoodguy
12-17-10, 12:37 AM
double post

96brougham13
12-17-10, 07:29 PM
it is in fact a 96 i double checked the title and it is odbII. the 04-64 tps malfunction is what it is showing on the diagnostics. I will check the wheel speed sensors and see what i come up with. Don't know if this matters or not but abs works fine

96brougham13
12-17-10, 08:47 PM
I'm confused by the trouble codes. they don't start with a letter. its a 96 on the title and has a odbII hookup under the dash. the on board diagnostic goes from 00 to 38 i believe

thefleetwoodguy
12-17-10, 08:58 PM
the 10th letter is the year on the vin
what letter do you have there?

96brougham13
12-17-10, 09:13 PM
1g6dw52p7tr706 i left out the last three numbers

thefleetwoodguy
12-17-10, 10:34 PM
ok "t" is a 96
just wanted to make sure
i think it shows the other codes when using a "reader"
let me look at the factory service manual and see if it sheds any light on your issue

96brougham13
12-17-10, 11:32 PM
ok thanks thats much appreciated

durrk johnson
12-18-10, 11:24 AM
Sounds like the same problem I have, and its not going to get any better unless you get a new abs/traction control module which are kinda expensive which is why I havent bought one from Jim yet...

My traction control works sometimes, and sometimes not at all. It's weird.

96brougham13
12-18-10, 11:59 AM
mine also works sometimes but not for very long at all, maybe a min. or 2

96brougham13
01-24-11, 12:21 PM
anybody know? i show code 04-64 (throttle position signal malfunction)

here is the website with all the codes... http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/cfb-tech.html#diag

thefleetwoodguy
01-24-11, 02:08 PM
have you tried replacing the interface module we talked about?

in 95-96 they change the trac/abc controls to a enhanced setup
I will have to look at my 95 to see if its the same as the early style
if so I should have one
also did you try disconnecting the battery in hopes it may reset?
worth a shot

thefleetwoodguy
01-24-11, 02:10 PM
have you tried replacing the interface module we talked about?

in 95-96 they change the trac/abc controls to a enhanced setup
I will have to look at my 95 to see if its the same as the early style
if so I should have one
also did you try disconnecting the battery in hopes it may reset?
worth a shot

96brougham13
01-24-11, 11:06 PM
i did infact disconnect the battery but it didnt do anything. I sent you a message about the "interface module" that i didnt really see anything there, and what i did see looked good so i dont know what to do now.

thefleetwoodguy
01-24-11, 11:48 PM
you cant tell by just looking at the electronics if there working
only the connection if you follow me...

turbojimmy
01-25-11, 09:27 AM
First, to clear up some earlier confusion, the early OBD-II cars had "normal" OBD-II codes for PCM-related errors and "old" OBD-I like codes for body codes. 04-64 is an EBTCM related to the TPS. It says:

"The throttle position signal circuit is used by the EBTCM to monitor the actual throttle position versus the desired throttle position to conrol engine torque during a TCS event."

The DTC is set when:

- The EBTCM is not receiving the reference voltage
- The TP sensor signal from the throttle position sensor is outside of the specified range

The service manual says to do the following for an 04-64:

- Repair any TPS-related PCM codes (use an OBD-II scanner to check for these). It says that many of the same conditions that would cause a TCS DTC 64 would also cause PCM DTCs.
- Measure resistance between terminals 12 and 1 on the EBTCM connector. If this circuit (CKT 452) is open - fix it. Terminal 12 on the EBTCM is TPS ground. Terminal 1 is a ground. This should be a closed circuit.
- At the EBTCM connector, check for a short to ground on CKT 417 checking resistance between terminal 34 and 1. Terminal 34 is the signal from the TPS - it shouldn't be grounded.
- At the EBTCM connector, check for a short to ground at terminal 10. Terminal 10 is the 5V reference signal from the TPS.
- Check the voltage between terminal 10 and 1. Should be around 5V.
- Check the voltage between terminal 34 and 1. Should be around 1V.

If any of the above is not as it should be fix the offending circuit. If all of the above is good, the last step is to replace the EBTCM. The diagnostic chart says that after unplugging the EBTCM and plugging it back in, the codes should clear. If after verifying all of the above you get an immediate 04-64, then the EBTCM is bad.

96brougham13
01-26-11, 12:06 AM
How do i know which terminals are which and were is the plug located?

thanks, John

turbojimmy
01-26-11, 10:49 PM
How do i know which terminals are which and were is the plug located?

thanks, John

I don't have trac control on my car, but according to the manual the EBTCM and BPMV are bolted to the front framerail on the left side, right by the steering box.

Attached is a diagram that shows the pins on the connector.

96brougham13
01-27-11, 12:06 AM
thanks I'll check it out

96brougham13
02-16-11, 09:53 PM
well i checked it out finally and from terminal 34 to 1 is only .04V. so this means that my tps is bad? I just changed it. Don't know where to go now

96brougham13
02-16-11, 09:57 PM
i check the wires at the tps and it only reads .03V one way and 5V the other ways

HUF
02-16-11, 10:46 PM
Here is a helpful link: http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/cfb-tech.html

96brougham13
02-16-11, 11:03 PM
ya i've been there. thanks

96brougham13
02-17-11, 02:13 AM
Does somebody think my wire maybe fried somewhere? It does work rarely tho

96brougham13
02-18-11, 07:51 PM
anyone have any ideas. Im stumped

turbojimmy
02-22-11, 09:38 AM
i check the wires at the tps and it only reads .03V one way and 5V the other ways

The manual says that you need to perform a TPS learn procedure in order for the EBTCM to work properly after replacing the TPS. Here's what it says:

TP SENSOR IDLE LEARN
If the Throttle Position (TP) sensor or throttle body is replaced, the Electronic Brake and Traction Control Module (EBTCM) must "learn" the TP sensor idle position voltage with the new component(s) installed. This is necessary to ensure effective engine torque reduction during Acceleration Slip Regulation (ASR) events. This procedure can be done using Techline equipment. The procedure requires a Tech 1 scan tool or T-1OO (CAMS) unit, and will be described using a Tech 1 scan tool.

I would say that your problem is that you haven't performed the learn procedure, particularly given the fact that you don't have any TPS-related codes from the PCM. The PCM is happy with the new sensor, but the EBTCM is looking for voltage consistent with your old sensor. Since the voltage is different, it's throwing a code and disabling the ASR.

96brougham13
02-23-11, 01:46 PM
thanks jimmy. what if i had the problem even before I changed the tps. Do a lot of mechanics have the tech 1 tool?

turbojimmy
02-23-11, 02:27 PM
thanks jimmy. what if i had the problem even before I changed the tps. Do a lot of mechanics have the tech 1 tool?

I would still try to perform the learn procedure since you swapped the TPS out.

I don't know who would have the Tech 1 tool. Obviously a Cadillac dealer, but beyond that I dunno.

So you're saying you had the problem before the TPS swap? Is that why you replaced the TPS?

96brougham13
02-24-11, 01:44 AM
ya i replaced it cause of the code and it didnt do a damn thing

96brougham13
02-24-11, 01:52 AM
my uncle works at his friends shop but it isnt cheap till the boss isnt there. Which i dont know if they have a tech 1 scan tool. they are pretty small tho and my uncle got laid off so...

turbojimmy
02-24-11, 07:51 AM
my uncle works at his friends shop but it isnt cheap till the boss isnt there. Which i dont know if they have a tech 1 scan tool. they are pretty small tho and my uncle got laid off so...

I don't know which is less expensive: dealer labor for performing the learn or a used EBTCM from thefleetwoodguy. Either one is a gamble, and you may ultimately need the learn with the used EBTCM anyway.