: Ward's 10 best engines for this year



drewsdeville
12-09-10, 11:02 AM
http://wardsauto.com/home/names_best_engines_101207/



3.0L TFSI Supercharged DOHC V-6 (Audi S4)
3.0L N55 Turbocharged DOHC I-6 (BMW 335i)
1.6L Turbocharged DOHC I-4 (Mini Cooper S)
3.6L Pentastar DOHC V-6 (Dodge Avenger)
5.0L DOHC V-8 (Ford Mustang GT)
1.4L DOHC I-4/111kW Drive Motor (Chevrolet Volt)
5.0L Tau DOHC V-8 (Hyundai Genesis)
80kW AC Synchronous Electric Motor (Nissan Leaf)
2.0L DOHC I-4 Turbodiesel (Volkswagen Jetta TDI)
3.0L Turbocharged DOHC I-6 (Volvo S60)

I'm happy to see the VW diesel make the list. Only helps my confidence when I shop for one in the spring.

The Ford 5.0 certainly belongs on that list, and I'm glad to see it there. Ford really didn't take any shortcuts on that one. They corrected their few mistakes on the 4.6/5.4 mod motors, improved it even further, and pulled some impressive power and efficiency numbers out of it. Good for them. Might even leave the LSX in the dust as time progresses.

Stingroo
12-09-10, 11:05 AM
Holy shit guise.

Something from Chrysler made the list.

Jesda
12-09-10, 12:23 PM
I didnt know Volvo had an I6.


There are only three American engines on that whole list.

orconn
12-09-10, 01:06 PM
Thanks but no thanks! The last time I purchased something from a car mags "Best" list it turned out to be the biggest disaster I have ever owned (1984 Audi 5000S Avant) (Road & Track, Car and Driver - "10 Best List").

drewsdeville
12-09-10, 01:15 PM
Funny, a buddy and I always joke about how many of MT's "Car of the Year"'s end up being fail. The '90's were horrible choices. Ford Probe, really?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motor_Trend_Car_of_the_Year

Playdrv4me
12-09-10, 01:16 PM
Why is anything out of a Dodge, and much worse the Avenger on that list.

I also think it's great to see the Turbodiesel on there.

MauiV
12-09-10, 02:31 PM
List Fail. No LS9.

gary88
12-09-10, 02:40 PM
Solid list :coffee:

Stingroo
12-09-10, 03:03 PM
List Fail. No LS9.

I was thinking the same thing.

C&C
12-09-10, 07:37 PM
The Ward's ten best engines fails to consider longevity or reliability; if you can get by that (then I guess their list may be pertinent). Some of their picks have been proven reliable but others are barely out of the gate. A better list would exclude any engine less than three years old (or some other arbitrary length of service). JMO

drewsdeville
12-09-10, 07:47 PM
Pretty hard to judge engine reliability when excluding 3+ year engines without making some sort of assumption or guess. The nice thing about the Wards lists is that it's one of the few out there that do not include theoretical data in an analysis like this. It's all measurable hard evidence is used.

But, for whatever reasons, many, if not most of their picks over the years ended up being some of the better reliability examples as time went on. The lists are riddled with Nissans VQ engines, numerous Toyota and Honda 4 cylinders, GM's best V8's, the Ford modulars, etc.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ward%27s_10_Best_Engines

MauiV
12-09-10, 08:31 PM
The smallblock Chevy pushrod V8 makes only 2 lists? The Century list and the 1998 LS1? The 350/5.7-6.0-6.2 are the most iconic American engines of all time. The damn thing is the staple of making power on the street in one form or another (only 1 real big "change in the 90's) for 55 years. It outlasted the Rocket, the Nailheads, the Ram Air, the HO's, the Boss, the Hemi and everything else that came along. The 350 is American Muscle at its rawest and most widley used form.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-10-10, 01:30 AM
As much as I hate Chrysler, I'm eagerly anticipating a strong, reliable engine with that 3.6L "Pentastar" V6! It's about time they create an engine with more power and torque than the venerable 3.5L SOHC. Chrysler needed a new, high feature V6 badly. Hopefully it will soon be found in better cars than an Avenger, lol.

Glad to see Ford's 5.0 on the list! So much time and effort went into that engine, and it's shown! Hopefully it's more reliable than the 4.6/5.4. Is it an actual 302 CID or is it different?

Thanks for posting this Drew!

Anyone else think it's weird NOT to see Nissan's 3.5 or 3.7L V6 on the list? That VQ series engine has spent more time on the list than the 3800!

ben.gators
12-10-10, 02:56 AM
What a shame for GM! There is just one engine from GM and it is Volt! Where are the designers that built 3.8L engines? What are they doing now?

Jesda
12-10-10, 04:04 AM
The Chrysler 3.5 is turning into as much of a head gasket eater as the Northstar, but its much, much, MUCH easier to fix.

Playdrv4me
12-10-10, 05:15 AM
Yea it's one of the more unusual longitudinal FWD designs, giving it similar accessibility to any traditional RWD engine bay.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-10-10, 08:15 AM
How long has the 3.5L been a headgasket eater? Is that new? I'm starting to see a lot of those 3.4L GM 60* V6s with headgasket issues as of recent, between all the different shops I visit for my BG job.

Jesda
12-10-10, 09:36 AM
Its common on mid 90s to early 2000s LH cars like the Intrepid, 300M, and LHS. In the mid 90s, Bob Eaton (engineer turned CEO, obnoxious micromanager) called for cheaper gasket materials. The head gasket problem was worst on Neons.

That red 2001 300M I picked out for a friend a few years ago had a head gasket failure at less than 130k. He had a shop fix the head gasket but the transmission took a dump soon after. So, he picked up a 30,000-mile 3.5L engine and ultradrive tranny together at a junkyard for $600 and installed them both.

93DevilleUSMC
12-10-10, 10:43 AM
[QUOTE=I~LUV~Caddys8792;2438687]Glad to see Ford's 5.0 on the list! So much time and effort went into that engine, and it's shown! Hopefully it's more reliable than the 4.6/5.4. Is it an actual 302 CID or is it different?


QUOTE]

Yup, it's a 302.15 CID motor. A real 302 this time, not a 4.9 rounded up to make Mustang drivers feel good.

77CDV
12-10-10, 04:42 PM
The Chrysler 3.5 is turning into as much of a head gasket eater as the Northstar, but its much, much, MUCH easier to fix.

Well, that IS a comfort.

Jesda
12-11-10, 01:00 AM
To the SOHC 3.5's credit, the issue is caused by a crap gasket, not a head separating from the block. I wish BBob was still on the forum to preach his pages of BS about how user error is the reason so many 90s Northstars had head gasket failures.

drewsdeville
12-11-10, 09:46 AM
HAHAHAHA. Man, that guy was a joke. He also had the whole board brainwashed into thinking that the 4.X's bearing knock was caused by the accessory belt tensioner. Ridiculous. If was even a GM employee, he was no "engineer". Probably some guy at the parts counter.

Jesda
12-11-10, 11:14 AM
HAHAHAHA. Man, that guy was a joke. He also had the whole board brainwashed into thinking that the 4.X's bearing knock was caused by the accessory belt tensioner. Ridiculous. If was even a GM employee, he was no "engineer". Probably some guy at the parts counter.

He was an engineer. GM went as far as asking for several of his posts to be removed supposedly because they contained some proprietary info.

But he's not an engineer I agree with. That said, I still want to meet him.

ben.gators
12-11-10, 04:50 PM
Who is Bbob?

Playdrv4me
12-11-10, 07:15 PM
Who is Bbob?

One if the, if not THE primary engineers on the original N* team who, for a time, was also a member of this board. Also a man who loves to stroke his own ego like none other.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-11-10, 07:20 PM
HAHAHAHA. Man, that guy was a joke. He also had the whole board brainwashed into thinking that the 4.X's bearing knock was caused by the accessory belt tensioner. Ridiculous. If was even a GM employee, he was no "engineer". Probably some guy at the parts counter.

Well Drew, not everybody knows everything about everything. Like Ian says, he was a primary engineer on the Northstar project, so who knows if he worked on the 4.x's.

Aron9000
12-11-10, 07:20 PM
One if the, if not THE primary engineers on the original N* team who, for a time, was also a member of this board. Also a man who loves to stroke his own ego like none other.

Sounds like somebody who couldn't admit that they screwed the pooch on the Northstar design. I'm sure there were a lot of them like that guy who couldn't admit failure and that might be one of the reasons why it took them years to fix the head bolt problem.

drewsdeville
12-11-10, 08:06 PM
Well Drew, not everybody knows everything about everything. Like Ian says, he was a primary engineer on the Northstar project, so who knows if he worked on the 4.x's.

No, not that he knows everything about everything. But in the case of not knowing, why lie? Better off not saying anything at all.

It doesn't bother me that he didn't know, even if he did work on the 4.X's. It's the fact that he submitted false information to the whole board. Unacceptable no matter how you look at it.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-11-10, 09:30 PM
Good point. It gives poor representation of Cadillac & GM.

77CDV
12-11-10, 11:43 PM
The thing you have to remember about engineers is, once they're done with a project, they're done. They never want to hear of it again nor be bothered with it in any way. Their philosophy is, if it didn't work as designed, it must have been a manufacturing or end user issue.

Engineers are funny ducks.

Jesda
12-12-10, 03:40 AM
I wouldn't go as far as calling him blatantly dishonest, but I would say his attitude reflected a lot of what was going on at GM. People in their hearts and minds knew things were wrong, but they wanted to keep the ship afloat more than they wanted to change what they were doing. When LIM gaskets started failing on 3.x V6 engines, people from engineers to customer service to assembly lines all knew it was an issue, but no one took the initiative in challenging the status quo and making it right.

Toyota and Honda were among the first auto manufacturers to implement quality control systems that encouraged employees to speak up and notify management of problems and issues.

In fairness to Bob, the Northstar had several manufacturing flaws, but inconsistent manufacturing wasn't the entire problem, and his arrogance only made me more suspicious.

sunexim
12-15-10, 08:43 AM
I my view
Inline-four engine(Audi)
Straight-six engine (BMW)
V6 engine(Chrysler Group LLC)
nline-four engine(Ford)
V6 engine(Ford)
are the best engines.

orconn
12-15-10, 12:41 PM
I my view
Inline-four engine(Audi)
Straight-six engine (BMW)
V6 engine(Chrysler Group LLC)
nline-four engine(Ford)
V6 engine(Ford)
are the best engines.

Why do you say this?

ben.gators
12-15-10, 02:36 PM
Engineers are funny ducks.
Thank you! :rolleyes: