: What's with the killing off of Cadillac nameplates?



Lord Cadillac
12-06-10, 01:54 PM
Does anyone think the DTS nameplate is finished? How about STS? Us traditional Cadillac owners and enthusiasts are well aware that the DTS is a DeVille and the STS is a Seville.. Why is Cadillac killing these nameplates? In your opinion, are they dead?

Why not keep the DTS name instead of killing it and renaming it XTS? Why not keep the STS name instead of making the CTS bigger and taking it's place? Why not call the new ATS CTS and leave it alone as the entry-level Cadillac? Do we NEED new names? What's wrong with the old ones? How often is Cadillac going to change names?

drewsdeville
12-06-10, 02:08 PM
Paralleling my response to the other thread, Cadillac needs an image freshening. Cadillac hasn't been in the consumers good graces for the past 3 decades, and those past names portray dark times that lead into GM's bankruptcy. Cadillac (and the rest of GM) needs this post-bankruptcy image freshening to gain some much needed marketing leverage.

orconn
12-06-10, 02:28 PM
While Cadillac owners have traditionally been conservative in nature, once the company killed off names like Seville, Coupe de Ville and Fleetwood, there was no real nostalgia or market charm to names like DTS, STS or CTS. Let's face these model designations were about as endearing as your social security number! Even cars from makers that insisted on using numeric designations for their models had these names superseded by names which caught their nature and mood better. Thus the Mercedes of 300D sedan of the mid-fifties became the "Adenauer Mercedes," the 300 SL coupe became the "Gull Wing" and the 280SL of the '70's became the "Pagoda Top." The oriental makers noticed this and stuck with names instead of numbers (for both domestic and foreign markets).

You rarely hear someone in the general (non Cadillac enthusiast) public refer to a Cadillac as DTS, but rather they call it a "big" Cadillac or the CTS as the "small" Cadillac (nobody seems to call the STS anything because, by and large, they don't seem to know that it exists!). This should provide a hint to Cadillac's marketing "wizards" that maybe they are barking up the wrong tree with their recent alphabet soup designations.

I don't think the problem lies with changing current designations of models, but rather with coming up with model names that the public identifies with a specific, attractive, model of Cadillac and will use in talking about the company's cars to one another!

Ranger
12-06-10, 03:43 PM
Names? What names? GM followed along like a lemming. Nothing but meaningless alphabet soup. No distinction, no class, no meaning, just letters. WOW see that XYZ? Oh look, a 36D!

gdwriter
12-06-10, 04:15 PM
I've never been a fan of alphanumeric model names, but I think Cadillac and Lincoln have gone in that direction in a lemming-like pursuit of the other luxury makes (Acura did this as well in the 90s). But if Cadillac is bent on sticking with the letters, it should maintain some consistency. BMW has the 3-, 5- and 7-Series; Mercedes has the C-, E- and S-Class, Lexus has the LS, ES and RX. And so on. So I'd prefer Cadillac stick with the model names it has; the XTS is for all intents and purposes, a replacement for the DTS. XTS would be a better name for a 7-Series and S-Class flagship model.

Cadillac is not along in abandoning long-standing model names, but I guess Sedan de Ville, Fleetwood and Eldorado are now considered bourgeois and associated too much with the old glitzy land yachts of Cadillacs past. Lurching from one name to another makes it look like you know you didn't get it right with the previous car, so why trust you to make the new car any better? I'm not saying the Chevy Cruze should be the 4th-generation Vega, but Honda has built tremendous brand equity with model names like Civic (1973) and Accord (1976).

Stingroo
12-06-10, 04:28 PM
Ranger, I'd be quite fond of 36D's.

:thumbsup:

hueterm
12-06-10, 05:00 PM
Stupidity. Lack of common sense. Typical bureaucracy...as if GM wasn't bad enough before...now it's got it government heritage, so it really gets it honest.

Stingroo
12-06-10, 05:25 PM
^ :rolleyes:

orconn
12-06-10, 05:49 PM
I've never been a fan of alphanumeric model names, but I think Cadillac and Lincoln have gone in that direction in a lemming-like pursuit of the other luxury makes (Acura did this as well in the 90s). But if Cadillac is bent on sticking with the letters, it should maintain some consistency. BMW has the 3-, 5- and 7-Series; Mercedes has the C-, E- and S-Class, Lexus has the LS, ES and RX. And so on. So I'd prefer Cadillac stick with the model names it has; the XTS is for all intents and purposes, a replacement for the DTS. XTS would be a better name for a 7-Series and S-Class flagship model.

Cadillac is not along in abandoning long-standing model names, but I guess Sedan de Ville, Fleetwood and Eldorado are now considered bourgeois and associated too much with the old glitzy land yachts of Cadillacs past. Lurching from one name to another makes it look like you know you didn't get it right with the previous car, so why trust you to make the new car any better? I'm not saying the Chevy Cruze should be the 4th-generation Vega, but Honda has built tremendous brand equity with model names like Civic (1973) and Accord (1976).

Please define the word "bourgeois" for me

Stingroo
12-06-10, 06:04 PM
I think in this text he's referring to this definition:

"a person whose political, economic, and social opinions are believed to be determined mainly by concern for property values and conventional respectability."

drewsdeville
12-06-10, 06:10 PM
I saw it more as...standard or traditional.

gdwriter
12-06-10, 06:48 PM
Please define the word "bourgeois" for meFrom Merriam-Webster (http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/bourgeois):


Of, relating to, or characteristic of the social middle class
Marked by a concern for material interests and respectability and a tendency toward mediocrity

In this context, people who prefer BMW, Mercedes and Lexus look down on Cadillac (and Cadillac owners) as being inferior and of a lower social status. That Cadillac aspires to the upper crust only adds to their derision.

Playdrv4me
12-06-10, 06:51 PM
"old skool"

gary88
12-06-10, 06:58 PM
I'm indifferent to car names. A car should sell itself on it's merits, not what a bunch of executives believe you should think of when you hear a name.

billc83
12-06-10, 06:59 PM
Unless I'm mistaken, "bourgeois" is a term for someone of the upper-class. It's often used as an insult. The word stems back to the French Revolution. In the French feudal order pre-revolution, "bourgeois" was a class of citizens who were wealthier members of the Third Estate (the First estate being clergy and the second estate being royalty and nobility).

Of course, a different eptymology may apply, but that's only how I've ever heard the term used (outside of history class).

Aron9000
12-06-10, 08:03 PM
Lurching from one name to another makes it look like you know you didn't get it right with the previous car, so why trust you to make the new car any better? I'm not saying the Chevy Cruze should be the 4th-generation Vega, but Honda has built tremendous brand equity with model names like Civic (1973) and Accord (1976).

Yeah, we've had from Chevrolet all kinds of AWESOME economy cars:

Corvair(a cool idea, very poorly executed IMO)
Chevy II/Nova(those were actually good cars until they slapped the name on a Toyota Corolla in the 80's)
Vega
Citation
Cavalier
Cobalt
and now Cruise

Yeah I agree with Gary, its kind of like, yeah we screwed it up so bad last time we don't want you to associate the replacement model with the old one at all.


Also, I see nothing wrong with reviving some traditional names. We have the Escalade and that is never going to become alphunemric because of the strong association with that name. Make the new big RWD car the Fleetwood or Brougham, people will know that you mean the BIG Cadillac sedan. I really wish they had used the Seville nameplate on the current CTS, as it occupies that traditional role of the small and European feeling Caddy.

I'd also say leave Deville in the trash bin, there is a lot of ill will associated with that nameplate because they've been pretty mediocre since 1994 to the current DTS.

Although I think we need to leave the mile long tradtional names in the past. Something about these names just seems a bit over the top and vulgar, which is great when you're talking about old Caddys, cause they usually were a little bit of both. Stuff like:

Fleetwood Sixty Special
Fleetwood Brougham
Brougham D'Elegance
Seville Elgante
Fleetwood Eldorado
or my favorite:
Fleetwood Brougham D'Elegance

Playdrv4me
12-06-10, 08:15 PM
Yea those long names would never fly in the modern automotive marketplace.

Bro-Ham
12-06-10, 08:19 PM
I think the old names would be totally appropriate if attached to proper Cadillacs. The name DTS stands for deVille Touring Sedan. STS is for Seville Touring Sedan. ETC was for Eldorado Touring Coupe. These abbreviated names eventually replaced the long names about 10 years ago. Too bad. Oh, I'm not sure what the CTS stands for - - is it Catera Touring Sedan? :)

Playdrv4me
12-06-10, 08:29 PM
I know many here live in a wonderful world of nostalgia but people these days have trouble getting "Mercedes-Benz SL63 AMG Black Series" out in one breath.

I am one of the minority who has no problem with the letter based nomenclature, although I agree completely with the comment that CONSISTENCY is necessary if you are going to use letter or number designations.

While I am not against the use of names like "Seville" or "Fleetwood" alone, great marques that they are, I would feel putridly outdated to tell someone I had the new 2011 "Fleetwood Brougham D'Elegance". Unlike nameplates like "Grand National" and "Mustang", I think that a large part of this mental block is particularly because of the flower print, avocado green, brown carpet oddities of the past those names bring to mind, much as some of us may love those classics. Not only that, I think slapping such a name on a modern iteration only serves to DISTILL the majesty of the original vehicle that carried such a nameplate, something I WOULD love to own one day.

Jesda
12-06-10, 08:33 PM
If a car is going to have a mix of numbers and letters, they should be arranged in a way that sounds awesome.

COOL:
NSX -- Sounds sleek.
300ZX -- Sounds fast.
GT40
Q45
STS - Sounds like a space ship.
LS400 - Rolls of the tongue like something luxurious.
SL500

LAME:
ATS
XTS
RL
CL
MKS
MKT -- IS THAT A LINCOLN "MARKET"? SERIOUSLY?

Playdrv4me
12-06-10, 08:40 PM
It's funny that Gary brought up Honda as a good example of brand equity with Accord and Civic (and he's right), considering they're fairly universally recognized for probably the most epic face palm in recent nameplate history... Legend to RL. I don't think they'd find much opposition from anyone I know to dump that RL moniker and bring back Legend, even 20 years on.

RippyPartsDept
12-06-10, 08:54 PM
I think Brett is right here (technically) that by 2006 Cadillac (at least internally) had stopped using the Deville and Seville names


technically it is now

C-series Touring sedan

Others:
STS---S-series Touring Sedan
XLR---X-series Luxury Roadster
SRX---S-Series Reconfigurable Xrossover--yes crossover starts with a c, but isnt x just cooler :)
DTS---D-Series Touring Sedan
DHS---D-series High Luxury Sedan

the escalade does not really follow.

Now what it was originally was catera touring sedan, no matter what anyone says, mainly because some of the parts on '03's were stamped Catera....as i recall the underside of the front bumper has catera on it

(quote is from this thread (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2004-2007-cadillac-cts-v-general/47236-what-does-cts-stand.html#post395740))

Aron9000
12-06-10, 09:10 PM
I think alphabet soup names are okay if the manufacturer follows some sort of logic.

Audi is probably the most logical, higher the number, the more your car costs. A4, A6, A8. Put an S in front of it and its the sportier model, put an RS in front of it, balls to the wall perfomance beast.

For the worst abusers, look at Volvo and Lincoln. Volvo has never kept anything consistent, the only Volvo model I can really picture in my head is the 240 DL, only because we owned one when I was a kid. Lincoln, well putting MK in front of everything is complete garbage, MKS, MKZ, MKT, well those all look the same to me IMO.

Destroyer
12-06-10, 11:08 PM
Does anyone think the DTS nameplate is finished? How about STS? Us traditional Cadillac owners and enthusiasts are well aware that the DTS is a DeVille and the STS is a Seville.. Why is Cadillac killing these nameplates? In your opinion, are they dead?

Why not keep the DTS name instead of killing it and renaming it XTS? Why not keep the STS name instead of making the CTS bigger and taking it's place? Why not call the new ATS CTS and leave it alone as the entry-level Cadillac? Do we NEED new names? What's wrong with the old ones? How often is Cadillac going to change names?Sal, right now GM should consider simply killing the Cadillac nameplate, period. There has not been even 1 Cadillac in the last 30 years worth a squat aside from the CTS-V which could easily become the new Impala SS. Cadillac does not build Cadillac's anymore. This wannabe BMW BS GM has done with Cadillac is not paying off. Give us a real 'ole American luxury Car (even if it's cheesey) and all will be well.

Playdrv4me
12-06-10, 11:22 PM
Sal, right now GM should consider simply killing the Cadillac nameplate, period. There has not been even 1 Cadillac in the last 30 years worth a squat aside from the CTS-V which could easily become the new Impala SS. Cadillac does not build Cadillac's anymore. This wannabe BMW BS GM has done with Cadillac is not paying off. Give us a real 'ole American luxury Car (even if it's cheesey) and all will be well.

I think that's a LITTLE off the deep end. The 1992 Seville was for its time, a BIG deal. The Eldorado was too. The XLR, little impact as it may have had at its ridiculous price-point, is a car I know many of us aspire to own one day, and we're young kids which is precisely the group that no one thought Cadillac could EVER attract again at the end of the 1980s. Cadillac's recent victories have been few and far between, and the piss poor quality of a lot of it is inexcusable, but I wouldn't say they completely fudged the last 30 years either.

Ranger
12-06-10, 11:47 PM
Oh, I'm not sure what the CTS stands for - - is it Catera Touring Sedan?
Yes.

Jesda
12-07-10, 12:08 AM
In the US, Cadillac was the #1 aspirational luxury brand for young people in 2004. Yes, seriously (I did a whole big project on it). I think Audi might be taking its place.

RippyPartsDept
12-07-10, 12:47 AM
I think Audi might be taking its place.
if they keep ramming those commercials down our brains (anyone watch sunday night football on nbc? steelers v ravens?) ... that one same audi commercial every 10 minutes... uh...

then there's the bridgestone commercial w/ a DTS in it.... played once - as much as it was making fun of the nav system i thought it still might be a cadillac commercial till the very end
i think bridgestone just made the best ad for a DTS ever

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-07-10, 01:28 AM
I've said it before and I'll say it again, the alphanumeric names are bullshit. Audi/BMW and Mercedes started this trend, and because they made the cars that everyone wanted to copy, all the other manufacturers started using that system of names, but the problem with that is that Audi/BMW and M-B made a logical system (in typical German fashion) and it works....for them.

However, the true king of the hill old school luxury brands, Rolls Royce and Bentley had the brains never to give into that school of thought and to keep it very old school, with classy, elegant names that spoke volumes of desire, ambition, wealth and class. They were names that everyone knew "Silver Seraph", "Corniche", "Brooklands", "Continental". In keeping those names for many many years, it showed they were proud of their heritage, and unwilling to sacrifice to change perception (who cares??) to pick up a few new customers. Well it's good to see a couple of the companies still know how to do it.

The problem with the other companies that did the alphanumeric names after having years of "REAL" names is that they didn't know how to do it. They just seemingly slapped letters together in a random fashion. What makes an RL better than a TL, or visa versa? It's boring, it's bland. The automotive world needs to get back to real names.

C&C
12-07-10, 07:47 AM
Would a rose by any other name smell as sweet. First you have to create your rose (sweet vehicle), then name it, them most importantly keep it sweet, and then, hang on to the name so recognition is spread throughout the land. Dumping a name (to start over) should be used sparingly, not as a convenience; (as too many manufacturers have done in the past). In example, say the Corvette was originally called the 'Sludge', and the vehicle was just so fantastic, 'sludge' would evolve a new meaning, as in; that car is so 'nastie', isn't that car 'ridiculous', and even in hot rod vernacular, that car is 'bitchin'. Names can matter but they're not as important as the product.

Lord Cadillac
12-07-10, 11:16 AM
I'd rather see GM sell Cadillac to another company than kill the brand. Otherwise, I think Cadillac has had some pretty nice cars over the past 30 years. I've owned a LOT of them and I never owned one I didn't like.


Sal, right now GM should consider simply killing the Cadillac nameplate, period. There has not been even 1 Cadillac in the last 30 years worth a squat aside from the CTS-V which could easily become the new Impala SS. Cadillac does not build Cadillac's anymore. This wannabe BMW BS GM has done with Cadillac is not paying off. Give us a real 'ole American luxury Car (even if it's cheesey) and all will be well.

hueterm
12-07-10, 02:34 PM
If they did either, the whole thing should just go out of business....

Stingroo
12-07-10, 02:51 PM
If they sell Cadillac it should go out of business? That makes no sense. This forum gets weirder and weirder every day.

ryannel2003
12-07-10, 03:03 PM
The names Eldorado, Seville, Fleetwood, Deville, etc. just would not work today as they sound more "old school" than the more modern names Cadillac has given the newer cars. I have no problem with the names at all, they have quite a bit of classic association with them but the luxury market is all about being the most modern and having the highest brand association. Cadillac is struggling with that, even with the new products they have introduced within the past 10 years. When I ask what people think of Cadillac, they immediately think "grandpa car" or "hood rat". It's unfortunate, because when I think of Cadillac I think about the classy, elegant cars of the 40's, 50's, 60's, and the modern cars like Seville STS, CTS, Escalade, and DTS.

Cadillac still has work to do. They aren't going anywhere though; Sales are up quite a bit from last year (though that really isn't much of a victory considering how much last year sucked with the economy). Hopefully the new product coming out over the next 5 years is something worthy of the Cadillac name.

Lord Cadillac
12-07-10, 03:53 PM
If they did either, the whole thing should just go out of business....

I don't like Cadillac because it's GM, because it's American or for any other reason than I simply like "Cadillac". I really don't care if Indians build Cadillacs. I just don't get that deep into thinking about who builds my automobiles. If I like the vehicle, I buy it. That's as far as my thought process goes. I don't care about the Father working in the factory and his little kid eating oatmeal in the morning. I just buy the car. The same way all of you buy a television set. I don't care about anything but the product I'm buying. That's just the way I am. I don't care about much. If Cadillac were ever to be sold, I'd give not a single thought of buying another one if it was what I wanted in an automobile. I don't care if Adolf Hitler is building it. Satan would be fine as well. It's a box with wheels as far as I'm concerned. I'm not emotional about electronics. They don't have souls.


Cadillac still has work to do. They aren't going anywhere though; Sales are up quite a bit from last year (though that really isn't much of a victory considering how much last year sucked with the economy). Hopefully the new product coming out over the next 5 years is something worthy of the Cadillac name.

I'm happy that sales are up for Cadillac - because this SHOULD help them to move forward with improvements over the years to come. However, I don't think it's a huge indication of success right now. Cadillac has gone down market - so there's absolutely no reason they shouldn't be selling more vehicles. Next year they can build crappy vehicles, lower the prices and sell more vehicles than this year if they wanted to.

hueterm
12-07-10, 04:37 PM
No, if GM sells Cadillac, then IT (GM) should just go out of business -- as seriously, what would be the point....

Stingroo
12-07-10, 06:20 PM
That's just as preposterous.

billc83
12-07-10, 07:24 PM
Sometimes I wonder if GM isn't trying to have Buick undermine Cadillac as the premier American luxury brand. Think about it.

GM keeps moving Buick upmarket, instead of downmarket to fill the pricing void Pontiac and Oldsmobile have left. GM won't commit to a full-size Cadillac flagship. They're marketing Buick against freaking LEXUS, when Buick should be competing against Acura, Lincoln and other second tier luxury makes. Let your luxury brand handle the actual first-tier luxury brands...

hueterm
12-07-10, 08:45 PM
Yeah, I never understood Buick competing w/Lexus. They started that w/comparing the Lucerne to the ES...what a joke.... The Lucerne is huge in comparison. True, they may be priced similarly, considering options and trims -- but they couldn't be more different....

Now granted, a Lucerne CXS and/or Super is a pretty awesome car, and I'd take one over an ES in a heartbeat, but still....

Lord Cadillac
12-07-10, 09:56 PM
I don't know why GM is positioning Buick against Lexus either. They're going to lose handily. Wait until the new ES is available. One year after the LaCrosse and it's going to wipe the street with it. I don't have hard facts but I'm hearing it's going to be a similar experience to the current LS460. Cadillac should be competing head to head with Lexus - and offering a more performance oriented experience. A mixture of Lexus and Mercedes or Lexus and BMW - but leaning toward Lexus. Honestly, the new 5-Series and 7-Series are getting very luxurious inside. I think BMW is even placing itself somewhere in between current Lexus and old BMW.

Stingroo
12-07-10, 10:22 PM
Honestly, Cadillac shouldn't be thinking about BMW at all. THAT should be what Buick does. They have the performance heritage anyway.

Jesda
12-07-10, 11:36 PM
Cat's out of the bag. Cadillac is now respected internationally for making some world-beating performance-luxury cars.


Cadillac is about American bravado, and the CTS-V is a thoroughly modern expression of it.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-08-10, 12:09 AM
I always understood it that Cadillac was going to be the performance/luxury brand, much like BMW, Infiniti and Audi, and that Buick was more of the quiet, soft luxury car, much like a Lexus or Mercedes. Cadillac would be more expensive and more in your face, and Buick would be a little less expensive and more subtle.....much like the old days.

Playdrv4me
12-08-10, 01:04 AM
That's just as preposterous.

I wonder if there is such a thing as post-posterous?

greencadillacmatt
12-08-10, 02:02 AM
I wonder if there is such a thing as post-posterous?

There is, and they make a cream for it.

Stingroo
12-08-10, 08:26 AM
Well what we just witnessed would be poast-posterous, to paraphrase TBJS.... That's as close as I got.

Destroyer
12-09-10, 12:37 AM
Cat's out of the bag. Cadillac is now respected internationally for making some world-beating performance-luxury cars.


Cadillac is about American bravado, and the CTS-V is a thoroughly modern expression of it.
The CTS-V also sports a Z06 Chevy motor. :cool2:

Stingroo
12-09-10, 12:54 AM
Actually it sports a base Corvette engine with a supercharger attached, basically.

The cylinder walls on the LS7 were deemed too thin for a s/c application (though many aftermarket companies have done it... so I don't quite know) but the LS9 and LSA are LS3 based to the best of my knowledge.

But I'm just being nitpicky.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-09-10, 01:05 AM
I think he was referring to the first generation V.

Stingroo
12-09-10, 01:15 AM
Well that had a C5 Z06 motor (for some years of production, anyway), so I suppose that could be true.

Sandy
12-09-10, 10:18 AM
To the 35 to 50 age set. Fleetwood Brougham, deVille, Seville, Sedan deVille and Eldorado seem like "their parents cars, (or what the parents could not afford) cars. They do not want old fuddy-duddy cars connected to Ma & Pa.
WHICH is why many wenrt to Miserable Bends and Bowel Movement Working (BMW).
To that, Cadillac needed a new hairdoo, so they took the letters.
DTS = deVille Touring Sedan
STS = Sevelle Touring Sedan
and why they dropped the Fleetwood / Brougham.

IMHO, it has not achieved the wanted goal. BUT..... maybe they were right, 'cause when I turned age 60
I bought a 1993 Cadillac Sixty Special !! :)

DouglasJRizzo
12-09-10, 10:20 AM
The biggest problem with Cadillac is - General Motors. They can't sell beer to sailors.
They can't find their groove anymore, and they falsely believe that new nameplates/models will help when what they really need is to get down to luxury car basics.

Too much front drive. Too much badge engineering. Too much engine sharing with lesser divisions.

Mercedes doesn't make these mistakes, how come Cadillac does? Easy, GM management - too many accountants/finance guys, not enough car enthusiasts.

How many front drive M-B models are there? NONE. How many M-B's share engines with other cars? NONE.

What Cadillac needs to do is re-develop its series hierarchy and KEEP it. It also needs to pair out the front drive and keep it down to one model, as it's really retro-grade engineering. Cadillac also needs to develop its own proprietary engines and keep them to itself, like it USED to do. Screw the cost cutting accounting, this is life in the uber luxury lane. If M-B can do it, so can Cadillac.

I think that the "old" names could still work, provided they were attached to vehicles that younger people would lust after. Vehicles that valets would park out front of the restaurant.

I also think that Cadillac should get serious with the upcoming competition from Lincoln. It's LUDICROUS to think that Buick has a chance to compete against Lincoln, when it should be competing against Chrysler, and other mid range cars. No one in the uber luxury world is going to take Buick seriously. But Lincoln is starting to get its groove on.

Jesda
12-09-10, 12:30 PM
My generation watched the baby boomers piss away all of America's great institutions and brands, so there is a tendency to look globally for greatness. When you grow up with your elders destroying GM and Chrysler, participating in mortgage and accounting scandals, and sending the divorce rate through the roof, younger generations are unlikely to want to continue along the same path.

So, the rejection of old badges is really the rejection of an entire generation of Americans. Skepticism is justifiably very high.

orconn
12-09-10, 01:17 PM
Well put, Jesda! We cheapened our own brand! Today, even on the major university level we offer third rate college educations. Our politicians are definitely third rate. And we have the most expensive healthcare system in the world and yet our longevity results lag several other countries. In our pursuit of petty material satisfaction we have encouraged and allowed our business leaders to undermine and practically destroy the world financial system in their relentless pursuit of short term profits. I sincerely hope a new generation can correct the "Boomer" generation's mistake's and make a better America!

77CDV
12-09-10, 03:16 PM
we have encouraged and allowed our business leaders to undermine and practically destroy the world financial system in their relentless pursuit of short term profits

Aided and abetted by their lapdog politicians. Unfortunately, the damage they've wrought over the past four-plus decades is largely irreversible. Think Rome, ca. AD 400. Idiocracy, anyone?

MauiV
12-09-10, 03:51 PM
Yeah, we've had from Chevrolet all kinds of AWESOME economy cars:

Corvair(a cool idea, very poorly executed IMO)
Chevy II/Nova(those were actually good cars until they slapped the name on a Toyota Corolla in the 80's)
Vega
Monza
Chevette
Citation
Cavalier
Cobalt
and now Cruise


Fixed.

This is why I cant believe the potential Chevy version of the G8 is going with Chevelle. Really? Why must GM rehash crap like Caprice, Monte Carlo, Malibu etc etc. New cars deserve a new name and a new image rather than the 1978 rustbucket that anyone under 40 associates with those nameplate. Corvette, Camaro and Silverado are the only ones worth keeping IMO, but then again they are essentially continuous run models and filling the same niche. 2 seat sports car, 2 door pony car and tricked out half ton.

Jesda
12-09-10, 05:00 PM
I would love to see the marketing data on new and old badges. Its hard for the public to dig for that stuff, and I've checked my university's academic database without much success.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-10-10, 01:35 AM
Here's how I look at it.

Remember back in high school/college, everyone was trying to find their true personality and have a definite definition and look of who they are? Most people found them fairly quickly and easily, without much effort or changes. Well GM, with their constant and ongoing name changes, is like that kid who keeps changing their look and style, never settling down with one, while looking very confused, self conscious and insecure. GM has the exact same thing going for it. Do they want to honor their heritage and their millions upon millions of sold cars and happy customers, or do they want to throw that all in the garbage and start over?

Puberty is a tough time, especially if you never come out of it.

Playdrv4me
12-10-10, 02:50 AM
GM is a high-school dropout.

77CDV
12-10-10, 04:39 PM
More like a mid-life crisis. GM had an identity and was rolling along nicely, then decided it was unfulfilled and needed to make radical changes to "be itself". Rather like the boomers who've been in charge of the company.

The-Dullahan
12-11-10, 12:58 AM
Ranger, I'd be quite fond of 36D's.

:thumbsup:



Nah, they cause back problems. Even the slightly inferior, 32D. An incredibely wealthy friend of mine had those and had to have surgery because it.

MauiV
12-11-10, 11:52 AM
Nah, they cause back problems. Even the slightly inferior, 32D. An incredibely wealthy friend of mine had those and had to have surgery because it.

Your wealthy friend should have read the owners manual. It is a known fact that they are most effective pointed straight up or hanging, pointed straight down. However I have discovered most owners of these models cant read anyway and wont trust you when you try to help.

EChas3
12-11-10, 08:32 PM
Names? What names? GM followed along like a lemming. Nothing but meaningless alphabet soup. No distinction, no class, no meaning, just letters. WOW see that XYZ? Oh look, a 36D!

That name has a 'ring' to it... 36D...