: Some used car options.



MauiV
12-02-10, 10:51 PM
My adventure with the V has run its course and I am looking for a new ride. Its mainly for the wife since she currently sports a 96 Jeep Cherokee with 207,XXX miles. It still runs like a champ and other than the headliner is in very good cosmetic shape too. Since she graduated Magna Cum Laude and got herself a pretty good job I think I will sport the payed off Jeep for a while and get her something nice. Keeping the V isnt an option since she cant drive a manual and the few times I tried to teach her she said she "felt like she was beating my child". So... None of the local VW dealers seem to be doing much to help me find the 09-10 CC that I want. Yes I am very specific and there are some on Autotrader but Chicago is about the closest and I just dont feel like all that will entail so now Im looking local for whats in stock. We both are pretty much REQUIRED to get to work on even the worst of days so that is weighing some into the choice (getting another Jeep in the $1000 range is also possibly in the cards)

08 Audi S4

http://www.bluegrassauto.com/Preowned-Inventory/2008_AUDI_S4_Louisville_WAUGL78E98A155146.aspx

08 Range Rover Sport

http://www.bluegrassauto.com/preowned-inventory/2008_LAND_ROVER_RANGE_ROVER_SPORT_Louisville_SALSK 25458A149190.aspx

08 Range Rover Sport

http://gordonmotorsports.net/newandusedcars/670/712750/3eca335a-ab2b-47b4-97d6-741926682dc7/none/2008-LandRover-RangeRoverSport.aspx

08 Jaguar XJ8L
http://www.bluegrassauto.com/Preowned-Inventory/2008_JAGUAR_XJ_Louisville_SAJWA79B68SH20251.aspx

Im leaning towards the Jag but not sure how well it will do in the winter. I am a slut for Rovers but we already have one SUV so Im up in the air.

hueterm
12-02-10, 10:59 PM
I'd personally never want the Audi, as it's too small. A 6 or an 8, maybe...

IF I got a Jag or a RR, it would have to be able to have an extended factory warranty that was actually worth something. I've heard too many horror stories (except from Ian). They are gorgeous, though...all three of them...

What about an Escalade? An '08 would probably be in that price range.

MauiV
12-02-10, 11:15 PM
What about an Escalade? An '08 would probably be in that price range.

The only Caddys that interest me have V badges on them. She would probably be cool with an STS if it were tricked out but I dont know much about them. When did the N*'s quit becoming a problem?

Stingroo
12-02-10, 11:19 PM
2000+

hueterm
12-02-10, 11:22 PM
To be the safest, go w/the RWD STS starting in '05. '00 cut down on the problem significantly, and then again in '03 and again in '05 (for the FWDs). STS-Vs are a S-T-E-A-L! Actually, that's what I'd get over the Jag. You could get a CPO'd '08 for what that Jag was going for.

I'm loving this one: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=c&car_id=281844964&dealer_id=893970&car_year=2008&doors=&systime=&model=STS&search_lang=en&start_year=2007&keywordsrep=083084083045086&keywordsfyc=__U1RTLVY%2C__&highlightFirstMakeModel=&search_type=both&distance=300&min_price=&drive=&rdm=1291350131355&marketZipError=false&advanced=y&fuel=&keywords_display=STS-V&sownerid=73552&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2009&showZipError=y&make2=&certified=&engine=8%20Cylinder&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=0&transmission=&default_sort=newsortbyprice_DESC&max_mileage=60000&address=40201&color=&sort_type=priceDESC&max_price=&awsp=false&make=CAD&seller_type=b&num_records=25&cardist=264&standard=false

orconn
12-02-10, 11:26 PM
First of all my congratulations to your wife on her stellar achievement!

I have to agree with Hueterm that should buy one of the choices above a longterm, solid warranty would be the only way to go. I also wonder what kind of service for the Range Rover of the XJ8L would be available in your area (I'd really check that out before I ventured into that territory). Also I have heard the XJ8's, should they require any real body work, may have to be taken to a shop especially qualified to work on their aluminum chassis/body. I believe there are only a few qualified body shops around the nation.

Also there might be the case of a freshly minted new hire showing up in a recent model XJ8 or R R might be a source of jealousy on the part of a boss or co-workers.

If both of you need four wheel drive transport in case of foul weather, perhaps that should be the priority in making a choice.

MauiV
12-02-10, 11:27 PM
The STS-V is a solid deal but Im so over the Fischer Price/Rubbermaid interior and buttons. If it had the 08+ CTS interior I would like it MUCH MUCH more. From the day I bought mine I have hated the dash with a giant ATM sitting in the middle of it.

hueterm
12-02-10, 11:31 PM
At least the STS-V has (faux?) Bird's Eye Maple.....and 469HP doesn't hurt....but I do see your point. A lot of people agree. What about an 08 CTS DI? Does your wife really care about more than 300HP and/or a V? (If it's going to be her car...now if it's her car for a year and then it's yours, that wouldn't work...)

MauiV
12-02-10, 11:42 PM
Its mainly a car for her and she has always wanted a Jag so I may have a look at it tomorrow and if the numbers crunch I may suprise her with it. It is certified and good for 100k and currently has 42k I think. We shall see I guess.

Aron9000
12-02-10, 11:49 PM
Where do you live Maui? How much snow do you really get???

Personally I'd go for the Jag, except in Vanden Plas trim with the wool rugs and fold down tray tables. Whatever you buy, I'd go with a dealer certified preowned with a long warranty, just makes a lot more sense IMO with 1-3 year old luxury cars.

gary88
12-02-10, 11:59 PM
Those B7 S4s are pretty good, way more reliable than the B5 and B6. They use pretty cheap leather though.

hueterm
12-03-10, 12:19 AM
Its mainly a car for her and she has always wanted a Jag so I may have a look at it tomorrow and if the numbers crunch I may suprise her with it. It is certified and good for 100k and currently has 42k I think. We shall see I guess.



They are gorgeous...!

MauiV
12-03-10, 12:28 AM
I live near and work in Louisville so snow isnt really a major concern. Our problems usually shows up in the form of ice in which case nothings moving.

Jesda
12-03-10, 01:41 AM
RWD Northstar is known to be very trouble-free, so I wouldn't sweat it. I put together a FAQ and list of fixes for the STS over in the STS forum. Check the sticky. Most of that applies to 05 and 06 models though since most of the bugs have been worked out.

Women love small Audis, and the resale value is respectable. I prefer the Jag.

Playdrv4me
12-03-10, 01:48 AM
If the interior quality is a concern that will sadly put the STS out of the running. Too bad because in every other sense, the STS-V is a real winner.

However, on that same note, the RR Sport interior was horribly chintzy until the '09 redesign (or maybe it was '10, I can't remember). In fact, as a whole I've never been a fan of the Sport. If I am going to get something with the LR badge on it, it is going to be the whole hog RR. The RR Sport is just a fancy LR3 and you can immediately tell after 5 minutes of sitting in it. Given a choice between the RR Sport and the 2007+ Escalade, I would choose the 403hp Escalade all damn day (and I have given some thought to a higher mileage 2007).

I don't think there is any way you won't completely make her day with an XJ8, you can NOT go wrong with those. ALL of the British marques REQUIRE a substantial warranty, NO exceptions!

ga_etc
12-03-10, 02:03 AM
For me it would be close between the S4 and the XJ8L. Both are beautiful, but the S4 is pretty damn close to the CC you want, only more powerful and sporty. Plus if weather is a concern, you have the Quattro to back you up. Price and sportiness give the nod to the Audi, for me.

Playdrv4me
12-03-10, 02:08 AM
Since she likes fast things, and an SUV is a possibility, a wild card from the VW family would be the Porsche Cayenne. It really has to be a Turbo though, as anything else doesn't merit the price premium over the VW Touareg. Again, DO NOT WANT without a comprehensive warranty.

MauiV
12-03-10, 02:28 AM
All 4 have CPO extended 100k warrenties. After the V I would NEVER buy a used car without one. I have eyed some Cayanne S's and they are more than I want to spend, thats why an R6 didnt make the cut. We are also trying to buy a new house this summer so I dont want all my fun money wrapped up in a car. Right now I am surfing a Jag forum and the biggest used "concern" seems to be in the air ride system. Apparently a "cheap" rebuild is going to set you back $500 PER CORNER. Drivetrains dont seem to be much concern. Its stuff like hoses in hard to reach spaces, electrical gremlins etc etc etc. I may angle for a complete 60K service thrown in.

MauiV
12-03-10, 02:44 AM
Thanks Orconn. (just saw your post) She busted her tail and still has a ways to go but this is a nice step. The dealer that has 3 of 4 of these cars is about 30 minutes from my house and not too far from work. She nor I is really concerned about jealous co workers, her coworkers do pretty well and they know her husband has a solid if at least not pretty cool job. I would presume State Farm will be the ones picking up the tab to transport a wrecked XJL to any special body shop?

Back to surfing the Jag forum for Gremlins!!

MauiV
12-03-10, 04:56 PM
Drove the XJ8 today and it was nice. Car feels HUGE after getting out of the V. I wont say I was impressed but it is quite luxurious, BEAUTIFUL lines and rides like a cloud. The sport mode provided great acceleration at the on ramp with 300bhp. Now we just have to get closer on numbers. Like I told the salesman, Im not the one that loves the car so its easy for me to walk out the door. I think I may have to force the leaping cat hood ornament thrown in too.

orconn
12-03-10, 05:43 PM
Hey, the "leaper" on the hood is for "DooDahs," real Jaguar folks prefer their Jag hoods plain unless Sir William put one their!

hueterm
12-03-10, 05:43 PM
Oh yeah....no sale w/o that....

I'd start keeping an eye out for her a beater Jeep as well....

EChas3
12-03-10, 08:49 PM
If she 'always wanted a Jag.' Buy her a Jag.

The secret to a happy life is a happy wife.

ben.gators
12-04-10, 08:24 PM
To be the safest, go w/the RWD STS starting in '05. '00 cut down on the problem significantly, and then again in '03 and again in '05 (for the FWDs). STS-Vs are a S-T-E-A-L! Actually, that's what I'd get over the Jag. You could get a CPO'd '08 for what that Jag was going for.

I'm loving this one: http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=c&car_id=281844964&dealer_id=893970&car_year=2008&doors=&systime=&model=STS&search_lang=en&start_year=2007&keywordsrep=083084083045086&keywordsfyc=__U1RTLVY%2C__&highlightFirstMakeModel=&search_type=both&distance=300&min_price=&drive=&rdm=1291350131355&marketZipError=false&advanced=y&fuel=&keywords_display=STS-V&sownerid=73552&lastBeginningStartYear=1981&end_year=2009&showZipError=y&make2=&certified=&engine=8%20Cylinder&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&body_code=0&transmission=&default_sort=newsortbyprice_DESC&max_mileage=60000&address=40201&color=&sort_type=priceDESC&max_price=&awsp=false&make=CAD&seller_type=b&num_records=25&cardist=264&standard=false

OK, two things:
1- These STS-Vs are very very rare and hard to find... Not only I never ever have seen one of them around, but also I have not encountered an STS-V in Crailgslit or other car listing websites.
2- Why does this 2008+ STS-V still have that old ugly interior?!?!?!?! Did not they redesign the interior in 2008 or it was just for CTS?

Stingroo
12-04-10, 08:41 PM
Interior looks A-OKAY to me. :noidea:

Jesda
12-04-10, 08:51 PM
I thought the STS-V had a noticeably upgraded interior over the standard car? Maybe Florian or slk230mb can confirm this?

ben.gators
12-04-10, 10:11 PM
Interior looks A-OKAY to me. :noidea:

OK, here is a 2003-2007 CTS:
http://pictures.dealer.com/v/vanchevyazvtg/1120/1586e6920a0a0002015d828ff778d58a.jpg

http://www.wreckcarsonline.com/photos/1239_d.jpg

And here is 2008+ CTS:
http://files.conceptcarz.com/img/Cadillac/cadillac_CTS_08_manu-i07-800.jpg

http://www.zercustoms.com/news/images/Cadillac/2008-Cadillac-CTS-8.jpg

Do you see the great changes in 2008? The old CTS is very plain and cheap looking. This STS 2008 looks like to the old CTS series, not the new upgraded CTS. I thought that STS got the same improvements... But it seems that I was wrong.

hueterm
12-04-10, 10:14 PM
I like the STS interior, especially in V form w/the Bird's Eye Maple...

There are usually several STS-Vs on eBay or Autotrader at any given time. I would never look on CL for anything close to that price range...

Jesda
12-04-10, 10:36 PM
http://image.motortrend.com/f/9208595+w750/112_news070328_04z+2008_cadillac_STS+interior.jpg
2008 STS. Its well made but it doesnt feel quite as nice as Lexus.

ben.gators
12-04-10, 10:43 PM
^
center console looks very lame!

Jesda
12-04-10, 10:51 PM
Yeah, that big mass of grey plastic on the center stack is about 5 years behind its competitors. Otherwise, its decent. I wish it felt less German inside and had softer materials.

hueterm
12-04-10, 11:21 PM
Hmmm...not seeing a big ol' mass of grey plastic on the 08+...

Anyway, as to the center stack design -- at least it's unique. Big, clear nav; good color coordination, plenty of wood. It was only shared w/the XLR, which is terrible company, I know...

The stack on the CTS is nice, but it's pretty much the same as every other new stack GM has put out: Regal, LaCrosse, Cruze, Malibu.... It's like it's 1984 again, and you can't tell if you're sitting in a Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, or Buick.

EDIT: Maybe the XLR didn't get the '08 redesign. Can't find it on the interwebz....

ben.gators
12-04-10, 11:34 PM
The stack on the CTS is nice, but it's pretty much the same as every other new stack GM has put out: Regal, LaCrosse, Cruze, Malibu.... It's like it's 1984 again, and you can't tell if you're sitting in a Chevy, Pontiac, Olds, or Buick.


Sometimes I start to think that GM is in an era like 80s, when american car makers were thinking gas is too expensive to build big engines and so they were manufacturing full sized cars with tiny engines! We are back again, we are discontinuing 8 cylinder engines...

About the new CTS, I am starting to like the 2008+ design, especially if we add recaro seats to it. I guess recaro seats are available now as an option for new CTS(?). I feel like I might end up in one of them, since Cadillc is not going to build any car like Seville anymore....

hueterm
12-04-10, 11:38 PM
I know they are (Recaro) for the V, not sure on the base model.

ben.gators
12-04-10, 11:40 PM
I know they are (Recaro) for the V, not sure on the base model.

I have read that they will be available for CTS as an option starting from 2011 or something like that...

orconn
12-04-10, 11:56 PM
http://image.motortrend.com/f/9208595+w750/112_news070328_04z+2008_cadillac_STS+interior.jpg
2008 STS. Its well made but it doesnt feel quite as nice as Lexus.

Thje center consol/stack looks OK, but the arrangement of the instrument dials within the binnacle looks terrible. The 2000 Catera had overlapping dials like shown in the picture above, and to be honest I really didn't like them on the Cater and I certainly don't like them on this STS.

Stingroo
12-04-10, 11:58 PM
I always feel so awkward and confused in these discussions... that '08 STS interior looks perfectly fine to me. :noidea:

ben.gators
12-05-10, 12:09 AM
I always feel so awkward and confused in these discussions... that '08 STS interior looks perfectly fine to me. :noidea:

Well, I never stop bitching about the Cadillcs built between 2003 and 2008. The exterior of these cars totally lost their luxurious flavor! Plain design, hard and cheap materials. This STS-V is not so much bad. Take a look to a normal 2006 STS!!!!
http://photos.ecarlist.com/3J/bg/hA/SD/RO/ap/KS/pb/Bc/si/hQ_640.jpg
http://photos.ecarlist.com/D8/Y1/Wn/jy/ZL/Sd/we/3Q/Pb/Rh/dQ_640.jpg

Is this really a luxury car?!

Playdrv4me
12-05-10, 12:13 AM
Thje center consol/stack looks OK, but the arrangement of the instrument dials within the binnacle looks terrible. The 2000 Catera had overlapping dials like shown in the picture above, and to be honest I really didn't like them on the Cater and I certainly don't like them on this STS.

I absolutely agree, Orr. There is no way that Fisher-Price blue instrument cluster competes with this:

http://i.ytimg.com/vi/lSRVOJUEiGI/0.jpg

Or, if you want to compare it to something current... this:

http://carimages1.everycarlisted.com/images/mercedes-benz-s-class-pineville-nc_YPA-32214_3455_6.jpg

Otherwise I don't actually have any problem with the STS interior with Nav and wood trim.

Stingroo
12-05-10, 12:14 AM
Looks okay to me, it's just black. The black and silver monochrome interiors were popularized by the Germans and people liked them. I like them too, but I prefer actual COLORS. Not black, not tan. Real colors. Red, blue, white, green, whatever. Something less sterile and more stylish.

Edit: Holy crap that's one ugly steering wheel on that Benz.

Playdrv4me
12-05-10, 12:22 AM
http://photos.ecarlist.com/D8/Y1/Wn/jy/ZL/Sd/we/3Q/Pb/Rh/dQ_640.jpg

Is this really a luxury car?!

Damn that's pretty bad. The flash reflecting off the plastic up top is NOT a good thing.

orconn
12-05-10, 12:30 AM
Thanks Sting for pointing out that steering wheel. Wow, that thing is really atrocious! When the Germans get something wrong, they really take no prisoners! That steering wheel would keep me from buying that model Benz for sure. I also think it's time to put some of the function buttons that have migrated to the steering wheel back on the dash. My biggest objection to my '02 Mercedes was ergo metrically retarded function buttons that made their use difficult to comprehend and use. I hate small function buttons that require pulling into a parking lot to use, and I really hate those F...ing screens for the input of feature functions. What a useless annoying system for making adjustments to you accessories' functioning.

Playdrv4me
12-05-10, 12:34 AM
Thanks Sting for pointing out that steering wheel. Wow, that thing is really atrocious! When the Germans get something wrong, they really take no prisoners! That steering wheel would keep me from buying that model Benz for sure. I also think it's time to put some of the function buttons that have migrated to the steering wheel back on the dash. My biggest objection to my '02 Mercedes was ergo metrically retarded function buttons that made their use difficult to comprehend and use. I hate small function buttons that require pulling into a parking lot to use, and I really hate those F...ing screens for the input of feature functions. What a useless annoying system for making adjustments to you accessories' functioning.

Uhh, you COMPLETELY missed the point. I could not find a close-up photo of the IP cluster which is far superior to the garbage on that STS that you pointed out. The wheel is ugly but at least its made of better materials than the Cad. I swear Orr, sometimes it seems you slam European cars just to satiate some inner need to do it.

I love my Seville more and more each day I drive it. In fact, I still maintain that despite the piss poor build quality and reliability, and for reasons of which I am not entirely certain, it is still one of THE all time best cars ever put on the road. However, you would have to be smoking crack to remotely think for a moment that an ugly steering wheel would keep me out of that S550 by comparison, all else being equal. A little perspective please.

Aron9000
12-05-10, 01:29 AM
There are other less wacky steering wheels avaiable on the S-class.

Also, Cadillac interior design and materials on the 2005+ STS, DTS, first gen CTS, 1st gen Escalade and XLR just plain suck IMO. The old 98-2003 Seville just about nailed it in design, function, and materials selection, even if it was assembled kind of sloppily. Same thing with the much hated Catera, the interior was nicer on that than the 1st gen CTS IMO.

Playdrv4me
12-05-10, 01:32 AM
There are other less wacky steering wheels avaiable on the S-class.

Also, Cadillac interior design and materials on the 2005+ STS, DTS, first gen CTS, 1st gen Escalade and XLR just plain suck IMO. The old 98-2003 Seville just about nailed it in design, function, and materials selection, even if it was assembled kind of sloppily. Same thing with the much hated Catera, the interior was nicer on that than the 1st gen CTS IMO.

Hmm... I'd have to say you have an interesting point there (re: Catera/CTS).

ryannel2003
12-05-10, 03:00 AM
The assembly of materials in the 1st Gen CTS, '05+ STS, '06+ DTS is much, much better than what Cadillac was putting out 10 years ago. As cars like mine and Ian's start to get older, things start to sag, squeak, break, etc. while these newer cars stand up to the test of time much better. There are some assembly lapses but not nearly as much as the older Seville's suffer. The '92-'97 Seville's weren't so bad, but Cadillac really went down quality wise with the '98 redesign. I can't tell you why it happened, but I believe Cadillac just got lazy because the 4th generation was so successful they didn't feel the need to improve interior quality.

The current STS styling is still growing on me, but I'd be more likely to replace mine with an '03 STS or even a '06 DTS Performance. Cadillac still has a way to go to compete with the big boys, but they are so much closer than they were 10 years ago.

/Sorry for the threadjack, MauiV. I still say Jaguar FTW.

Jesda
12-05-10, 05:13 AM
Its VERY hard to do a black interior right, and the reason I never buy Cadillacs with black interiors is exactly that. Its a color that easily reveals cheap materials and hard textures.

Mercedes-Benz right at the turn of the century was pure trash.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
12-05-10, 08:06 AM
Mercedes-Benz right at the turn of the century was pure trash.

Agreed. Their stuff was so cheapened out then it wasn't even funny. It was a major fall from grace when compared to the W140 and R129 that were made in '99.