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Need help ASAP please (bleeding clutch w/ Motive...issues)

2K views 20 replies 10 participants last post by  JDB 
#1 ·
Ok. I'll start by saying that I DO have the right adapter and I'm following Bneal's excellent write-up. Here's what's happening: I pressurized to 10psi without any fluid in the motive...All seemed well. So I put about a litter of my Amsoil fluid in the tank and pressurized to 15psi. I expected to see the hose from the tank to the reservoir fill up, without any air. Instead I'm seeing that hose with a LOT of air in it. I thought maybe the air would run through it when I opened the bleeder, so I did. Result was a lot of really shitty fluid exiting, but also a lot of air. More than just bubbles, I mean I'd get an inch of fluid then 4 inches of the hose being half fluid and half air. I closed the bleeder and came back up to the motive to see that the hose from the tank to the reservoir still wasn't solid fluid... Lots of air still.

I disconnected everything and re-tightened it all to try again. I brought it up to 15psi again and In the 10'minutes it's taken memto type this on my iPhone, it's still at 15psi but small air bubbles are slowly coming from the RESERVOIR towards the motive tank. They've now left the hose empty and although the tank still has lots of fluid in it, it's not being fed into the hose. So when I open the bleeder again, I'd imagine all that air's just going to rush into my system... WTF? Any help? Please? I need my car in the morning!! lol
 
#3 ·
Hmmmm. I trust ya, but I can't seem to get the OUTPUT from the bleeder to come out air-free, which I assume it should, indicating there's no air in the system. No? And I can't help but think it's the air in the line from the tank that's just going to keep being pushed into the system...
Maybe I'm over-thinking this? I just gave my clutch pedal a few pumps and it seems ok, but I don't wanna mess anything up driving around with a bunch of air in there.
 
#5 ·
Well I'm now out of fluid and swearing to myself a lot. I just went through a full litre of Amsoil trying to get the air out of the system, and it was still spurting air like mad. Now I'm out of fluid and the system's probably full of air, and probably doesn't have next to any fluid in it. ARGH!!! My clutch pedal that felt fine a few minutes ago is now laying on the floor with no counter pressure. And if I ever get this right, now I'm going to have to add crappy-ass fluid from Canadian Tire or some shit since Amsoil's not available in stores. I thought this was going to be a breeze with the Motive ... :alchi:
 
#6 ·
Get some more fluid - perhaps some of the Motive gurus will chime in.

Just in case, here is the manual method: (you really need an assistant).

Paraphrased from the Service Manual.(7-1485)
1. Fill the clutch fluid reservoir.
2. Stroke the clutch pedal from top to down position at least 15 times.
3. With the clutch pedal depressed, open the concentric slave cylinder bleeder valve to release trapped air. The bleeder valve is located on the bell housing.
4. Close the bleeder valve and slowly return the clutch pedal to the up stop.
5. Open the bleeder valve and slowly depress the clutch pedal from the top to fully depressed until the fluid escapes through the bleeder.
6. Close the bleeder valve.
7. Return the clutch pedal to the up position.
8. Depress the clutch pedal. (top to down)
9. Open the bleeder valve and allow air bubbles to escape.
10. Close the bleeder valve.
Keep checking the fluid reservoir and refill between steps.
11. Repeat steps 7-10 until the fluid without bubbles escapes through the bleeder valve.
 
#7 ·
As darkman said, air in the line on the motive is perfectly fine and normal. I can't believe you went through an entire litre. A few ounces is all it takes. If you were still getting that much air out of the bleeder I would say there is an air leak somewhere in your setup. How are you out of fluid? Didn't you catch everything that was coming out of the bleeder? Was it too dirty to reuse? If you went through a full litre I would imagine most of what you caught was fresh clean brand new fluid.
 
#8 ·
The reservoir has to at least be half full when you start. Air at the motive is fine because with the air comes fluid, but you need a little buffer in the reservoir first. I don't mean to offend, but using Amsoil in the clutch seems completely unnecessary. Just get a name brand DOT 4.
 
#9 ·
Thanks Darkman. I had those instructions printed off from the FAQ page as a back-up. Unfortunately my wife's at work and I'm not going to have a helper available to me tonight. Then tomorrow morning I'm supposed to be taking off for the weekend. Hopefully, anyway.

Houdini - In retrospect I probably would have been fine to stop after the 1st go-round, to be honest. Not having done this before, I just didn't know what "no air" looked like when coming out of the bleeder valve. I was expecting the 1/4" I.D. hose to be FULL of fluid, in which case it would be easy to see the air bubbles (or lack thereof). It looked to me like the fluid was just piddlin' out of the bleeder though, and it wasn't "filling" the hose. So I couldn't tell if the air in the hose was from lack of fluid or air coming from the bleeder. This prompted me to give it another go, then get angry, then angrier, then try again and finally wind up using all the fluid and wanting to punch a hole in the wall. LOL

I just rode my bike to Canadian Tire and got 2 litres of Prestone DOT 4 brake fluid. Looks like it's got the same boiling points as the Amsoil DOT 3 did, so I guess it's not "junk"...or at least I hope it's not. I'm gonna have some dinner, a few beers, then go try this again.

I'm assuming that since I ran the Motive dry (not on purpose, I couldn't get the damn bleeder closed in time) I'm going to have a lot of air in there. I'm also assuming that this means I'll probably go through more-than-normal amounts of fluid again getting all that air out ... ?

Thanks for the help guys. I'll get this worked out. Hopefully I'll have enough fluid left to do my brakes afterward. And hopefully that'll go without the hiccups.
 
#12 ·
Yep I just fiddle with moving the tank over the fender etc until I see the air bubble make it to the clutch reservoir.

BTW a proper bleeding with the motive should result in ZERO air coming out of the bleeder fitting.
 
#13 ·
Alright, I got the clutch and brakes done last night. Wasn't a big deal. I hadn't heard of or seen the motive video on YouTube, and didn't know what to expect with the motive. I guess all that air in the tank-to-reservoir line is fine since the fluid is actually moving so slowly, then sitting in the reservoir before being pulled into the hydraulic system. I was/am still a little concerned that the motive seemed to somewhat aerate the fluid as well, but again that must be fine because the fluid coming out of the bleeder valves was air-free.

Anyway I'm a little bummed out that I wasted my 2 bottles of Amsoil, and wound up with regular old Prestone as a replacement, but at least it's done now. That clutch fluid was BLACK, and the brake fluid wasn't much better.

Thanks again guys.
 
#18 ·
Search this forum for "clutch bleed" or something to that effect. That's where I came across a thread that had some great pictures of exactly where the stupid thing is. If I can find the thread, I'll link it here for ya. Once you DO find the valve, you're gonna need to get a stubby gear wrench, or else you'll wind up cutting your small 8mm wrench in half like I did.

Found it ... Pics were posted by Cadzilla, likely property of his.
 

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#21 · (Edited)
The Motive bleeder that I have from my Audi years...fits the clutch perfectly. it's the Euro one with the 0100 part number and its the older version of Bleeder 0109 (or 1109 for adapter to add to a bleeder) that has the newer metal cap...both are the 45mm caps.

Now, it wont fit the clutch because I think it needs the 3 prong cap of 0108 (or adaptor 1108)...I've been looking to buy one...$25 from Summit or Jegs...but I've been using the 2 person method.
 
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