: chance to buy a N*.....



Night Wolf
09-18-04, 09:05 PM
This guy I work with has a NorthStar for sale.... kinda....

he said it is a 1996...he thinks.... not sure what type, but thinks it is the 275hp version...

Here is the deal, this is the story he got from the kid:

it was a brand new engine, the kid got it for his tech school, built it (had ot be assembled) they got them fired up and ran for a little it, then it was disassembled.....and that's it...

... he said the enigne is complete, the crack is int he block, but the pistons and everythign are out... bascially it would need a simple rebuild kit, and then be rebuilt.... as far as I know, it is basically a new engine, never blown or anything like that, with no wear on it....

... he wants $200, I may be able to talk him down some....

The thing is, it isn't practical... it owuldn't go in any of my cars.... I suppose next year I *could* find a wrecked Eldo ETC or SeVille STS with a bad engine, do a rebuild and swap it in there... have myself a sweet car for (kinda cheap) but I really want a tuck as a next vehichle... not another car (3 already).... or I could rebuild it, then sell it off... I dunno, the guy wants to get rid of it, and he just wanted to let me know about it....

... is this even practical at all? I have helped my father rebuild a Ford 302, I suppose I could do it myself and it would be a learning experience... but on a mint NorthStar?

Any ideas?

illumina
09-18-04, 09:36 PM
i would get a list of N* parts and do an inventory before you go any further. also, how sure are you that the internals are in that good of condition? look at the crank to see if it is egged shaped or anything, inspect all parts for obvious wear. if it is in decent shape, the 200 dollars is not bad at all...considering you know how to rebuild such an engine.

majax
09-18-04, 10:52 PM
you cant really go wrong for $200.

foo
09-19-04, 01:55 AM
Yea if you don't want it, ill take it as long as it has the heads and all that with it :)
I want to rebuild mine but I'd rather not have the car down for so long while I do it so if I could pick one up for $200 and start rebuilding it and then just swap it into the car when i'm done that would be ideal :>

Spyder
09-19-04, 03:32 AM
I could use the crank and bearings... :)

caddyshack24
09-19-04, 04:59 AM
i'd definatly pick that up if i had the cash. I somewhere on the forum their isnt really anything to reman. all i know sorry. also, tech school they were learning with it. hard telling what wasnt lubed or set right. but 200$ is still worth it for me when you consider a new engine costs slightly over 5k

Night Wolf
09-19-04, 12:53 PM
the engine is complete... heads, cams, everything... the heads are not on the engine though... basically it needs a rebuild.... I suppose I could part it out if it came down to it... but i know if i had the enigne, and rebuilt it (would be cheap too, just need a basic rebuild kit) then I would be very, very tempted to find a car with a bad enigne and buy it... which would be more money....

I have the money.... maybe it is something i will consider, the guy said he will bring pics in next time we work together...

dkozloski
09-19-04, 02:05 PM
The worst part of basket jobs is the small parts that get lost or misplaced. Some can be very difficult to replace. The ideal situation would be to have the sick takeout motor to rob parts from.

foo
09-19-04, 02:13 PM
Well like i said, if you don't end up buying it, please let me know. I'll have $200 very quickly plus whatever it costs to ship it here if i have to scrape it off the ground :>
I don't care if some parts are missing as it's going to be rebuilt with different cams and different pistons/rods and stuff anyway. (probaly set up for supercharger or twin turbo use). Drop it in a 70's or 80's camaro or TA and you get lots of power :) (of course it won't be mounted transverse in those).....probaly electric water pump and some other small mods.........i've been looking for a project like that to do but all the used northstars are $1500+. If the transmission came with it that would be nice too but not necessary

(ok i read this again, what i'm doing is rebuilding my 99 with some better stuff so a 'new' northstar i buy will be rebuilt to go in my STS and then the one from the sts will get rebuild to go into a project car) .. makes sense now heh

eldorado1
09-19-04, 03:42 PM
I know of a 2001 northstar (12k) for sale for $600, and a y2k "parts engine" with a spun rod bearing for $50... the parts engine is in pieces I'm told, but mostly everything is there. Let me know if you guys want his information... it's located in Grand rapids, MI.

foo
09-19-04, 11:04 PM
Sure i'll take info on both...... I have to check if a 2001 and 2000 engine will work in my 99 since they made some small internal changes. Send over the info please :)

CadiJeff
09-19-04, 11:38 PM
did you mean the there is a crack in the block or the crank is in the block

eldorado1
09-20-04, 10:06 AM
Guess he sold them last night... my bad :bonkers:

Night Wolf
09-21-04, 10:12 PM
I have been thinking about this more....

$200 seems like a very fair price... so I was thinking, instead of the 425 or 500 buildup (which probably woudln't have gone how i would like it to) I could do the N*

The plan woudl be to take my time and do it right... I would do it in my basement, buy an engine stand, and the needed tools etc.... then, this coming Spring, I would be on the hunt for an Elderado (preferably an ETC, and maybe '93-'95 to keep the cost down) that had a bad engine, but in nice shape.... now that the cars are getting olde,r I have seen them with bad engines (headgaskets) so I could get a nice shape car for chepa, then put my newly built engine in, and bang, I have a nice, car I always wanted, daily driver...

My question is... I am a very good mechanical person.... but as far as rebuilding a whole engine, the only thing I have done was help my father rebuild a Ford 302....

So how hard would the NorthStar be to rebuild? according to the guy, the crank is already in the block, mostly everything else that needs to be done... I woudl buy a rebuild kit, and a factory manual on rebuild it (factory service manual?)

Is this something I could tackle? I would have the whole winter to do it, the step-by-step book, and of course, these forums.... in the world of things, rebuidling an engine isn't a difficult process.... but is the NorthStar just a bad engine to try and rebuild... and being that this will be my first solo build?

I was also thinking about taking the heads to the family friend that has the machine shop... do a simple job on them... maybe a port and polish, or shave them down slightly etc.... bring the power up.... since it is most likely the 275hp version, it wont have the high-revving top end, but it will have the low end torque... either way, with the work I woudl like to do, and the car, it should be a whole new, and pleasing experience over the 1993 4.9 as far as performance....

So the question is... is this a remotly possible idea? the fact that by next Spring/Summer, I could have a sweet car that I always wanted, and then store the '93 away for awhile (leaving the Olds as the knock-around, winter, anything dirty car etc... would be nice... plus, knowing that I built the enigne myself, woudl defintly make me happy.... but the NorthStar is a complex engine... moreso then a 302... so I don't want ot get in over my head on things.... I need peoples opinions....

Night Wolf
09-21-04, 10:15 PM
did you mean the there is a crack in the block or the crank is in the block

the crank is in the block... sorry for the spelling error.... the pistons are out and need to be put in etc.... I suppose if the crank is in, the mains are all in and tightend down as well... that helps....

*if* I decided to do this, I know I will need to invest in a good torque wrench (don't even have one) and a ring compressor..... and the enigne stand obviosuly... plus my normal tools i have... not sure what else I would need....

illumina
09-21-04, 10:15 PM
you know i have often thought about installing a N* in my 86' deville just to see if i can pull it off.

Night Wolf
09-21-04, 10:30 PM
I havn't even considered (trying) to put it in my '93 or another non-N* car.... far too much work... both custom fabrication and time... much more then I am willing on this project...

... how I see it is, find a nice kept car with maybe 130k miles with a bad engine (but good tranny) pull the enigne, service the tranny etc... then put the new engine in... atleast with these Cad's...besides the struts, not much goes wrong with the car outside the enigne, so a car with even 150k miles should be toruble free... obvisoly when getting the car, the enigne will not be a bother, but I would want the car to look nice... no dents, pain shiny etc.... I have seen it... all that is needed is someone that keeps the car clean, and dosn't junk it around, but fialed to change the coolant... headgaskets go... boom, car worth less then half it would normally, but in nice shape, with bad enigne wiating for my new engine...

I just need to know if I am capible of rebuilding a N*... that is the ultimate deciding factor....

illumina
09-21-04, 10:52 PM
hell, my thing is to make things a little different. i am going turbo on my 87' 4.5 liter that is replacing the 4100 in her now. i have no problems with the work involved in doing an N* for an 86' deville. i know its a "tad" crazy, but then so am i :cookoo:.

Night Wolf
09-21-04, 11:23 PM
eh... it's not liked a carbed enigne where you could plop a 1974 Chevy into a 1937 Ford, hook some wires up and go.... the N* is a VERY complicated engine... it communicates with every on board computer system, many sensors etc...

the guy actually bought this enigne in parts to have rebuilt and put in his 1960 Fleetwood... then he realized how involved it was... he now sold the '60... he has a couple '59's (one Eldo drop top) and some '55's.... they all need to be restored though...

but..... is this a managable project for me? I work with the guy Saturday, so I'll let him know then... I just want to make sure I can infact do this... although if not, I coudl part the enigne out and make my money back... still, I would like to finish a started project...

illumina
09-21-04, 11:28 PM
how many engines do you think i have "not" done? i perfectly realize what is involved with the N*.

so much for giving out my hair-brained schemes.

i had my hands in rebuilding 2 N*'s before. replaced head gaskets in one too. i've done countless (it seems) 4.x engines. if some guy can stick one in a VW, i can stick one in an 86' deville.

is it doable for you? sure.

is it doable for me? HELL YES!

Night Wolf
09-21-04, 11:36 PM
yeah, that VW is insane....

Honeslty, I would have to say, if i had the resources, money and time to put a N* in my '93.... I don't think I would... that car is not my go-fast car (that was reserved for the '79... but may be this new project) I want that car to be semi-origanal.... plus the 4.9 is just a cool enigne... I opened her up a few times today... even for the 200hp... the high torque is soo nice... accelerates from 40 to 80 soo smooth...

Well, I think I pretty much decided on getting the enigne and rebuilding it.... the price is right, it is almost a steal... So this winter I will save alot of money away... maybe have $2k by Spring... that is plenty to buy an Eldo that i am looking for ('93-'95....ETC, nice car, bad enigne)

That brings up another thing... if this is the 275hp version (more torque at a lower RPM then the 300hp) and it goes in a Touring Coupe... that will be the low-end torque PLUS the aggressive gearing... it'll totally rip off the line.... that may not be so bad... of coruse if I find a deal on an ESC, I'll take it.... I just like the ETC interrior, grille, suspension etc... but this is a project, can't be too picky :)

illumina
09-21-04, 11:47 PM
if you can get the VIN for the engine, that will go along way in determining what version she is.

Night Wolf
09-25-04, 02:37 PM
Well, I worked with the guy today, and we talked (alot)

To sum it up, I AM buying the enigne.... actually, I am picking it up tomorroe (Sunday, 26th)

Some more info I found out about it... it does have the intake/exhaust manifolds, fuel injectors, all 4 cames etc... but he said that 1 head is missing 1 or 2 valves and springs.... how hard is it to buy a new valve with spring for the N*? There is no wiring harness and accessorys either (starter, alternator etc....)

He said that you can still see the cross-hatching in the cylinder walls (means it hasn't been ran much?) and is complete... also there is no rust int he cylinders or anything (said the enigne is wrapped up)

...it was a community college, the tech part, they built them up, ran it, then tore it down....

... but here is the juicy part... I origanally thought it was the 275hp version, and convinced myself to like it (more tourqe, lower rpm) BUT, turns out it is an L37.... 300hp :D

There is also an engine code: 6P4125103 the 4 may be a U.... looks like a 4 though... in another tread, Katshot says that code T (?) is 1996, so this isn't a '96 enigne.... I have been trying to see what year P is... only thing i found online was that P was 1993... but on the vin of the car... not enigne...

While doing more research.... I decided against a '93 Eldo... so now I will be looking for a '94/'95 Eldorado Touring Coupe.... this winter I will be putting some of my money into this enigne, but most of it will be to save up for the car... I am hoping to have close to $2.5k to buy a mint car with bad enigne.... I will get a new starter, water pump and maybe p/s pump, get the alternator rebuilt from a very good local shop, and then I don't need to worry about the wiring harness and stuff.... I am defintily excited to get this project going.

Even better, the engine is only.... 30min tops from me.... he said when he picked it up, he put it on the passenger seat of his Fox body Mustang, so it will fit int he trunk of my car with no problem.... I don't know if I should take the Olds (gotta clear out the trunk first) or the '79 (clean trunk) it will fit in both... just a matter of which car I want the engine to be sitting in... the Olds *is* my daily driver.... so I don't know if I want an enigne in a million pieces sitting in the trunk.... actually since the weather has been soo nice, I have been driving the '93 alot, the Olds is at my fathers sitting... the 2 DeVille's are getting the use right now... it is good though, since they both will be sleeping this winter....

... you can bet there is going to be far more questions... but first I need to pick up the enigne... I am going to transfer money into my other checking acount, and take the $200 out today.... overall I woudl say I am getting a pretty good deal for a very cool project..... *IF* the project ever fell thru, I could part the engine out and make my $200 back easy..... but I am deterined to do this... it is just a very complex enigne...

eldorado1
09-25-04, 07:49 PM
Well, I worked with the guy today, and we talked (alot)
He said that you can still see the cross-hatching in the cylinder walls (means it hasn't been ran much?) and is complete... also there is no rust int he cylinders or anything (said the enigne is wrapped up)


Good luck to ya! We're all rootin for ya! Btw - just a heads up... Crosshatching means nothing in northstars. There are engines out there with 100+k that still have the original crosshatching. I know mine does at 60-some-odd-k. :drinker

Night Wolf
09-25-04, 10:20 PM
yeah, that's what I am thinking....

...either way, there can't be much time ont he engine, unless it was bad, and they rebuilt it, then tore it down again... which dosn't seem likely... for the price, I can't complain... I will be using the pistons, cams and all that it already has, I have been reading that there are new designed head gaskets and rear main seals (IIRC) as well as a balancer... so I will do all that also...

...are there any tell-tale signs with the N* that would tell me the engine is realitivly new? Can anyone tell me what year this enigne is based on that vin? Thanks...

eldorado1
09-25-04, 10:58 PM
yeah, that's what I am thinking....

...either way, there can't be much time ont he engine, unless it was bad, and they rebuilt it, then tore it down again... which dosn't seem likely... for the price, I can't complain... I will be using the pistons, cams and all that it already has, I have been reading that there are new designed head gaskets and rear main seals (IIRC) as well as a balancer... so I will do all that also...

...are there any tell-tale signs with the N* that would tell me the engine is realitivly new? Can anyone tell me what year this enigne is based on that vin? Thanks...

I don't recall seeing a complete vin listed, just an engine code... I'm not sure now those correlate. There really isn't a way to determine the mileage of your engine sorry to say... Your "water log" on the engine should have a year stamped in it. Unless they stopped that in 96? I know 93-95 does, so at least you could rule out those years?

Night Wolf
09-26-04, 05:40 AM
well, I was reading that the L37 didn't come out until 1994 (or '95?) either....

6P4125103

According to a archived thread, Katshot broke it down, the second digit would be the yearm so what year (for the engine, not car) is P? IIRC T was 1996...

Night Wolf
09-26-04, 01:29 PM
Well, he brought some pictures in today... the block looks super clean, I noticed the pistons were kinda brownish... just a tint of brown, mostly on the top too.... no big deal... it is 1:30 now, I need to meet at 3 and then follow him to the place.... I will be taking the '79 as there is too much stuff int he turnk of the '93 and the Olds is at my fathers.... it is a beuatiful day too, so crusing in the '79 will be fun.... I'll take pics later and show everyone my new project :)