: 2014 Cadillac ZTS



Lord Cadillac
11-07-10, 10:19 PM
2014 Cadillac ZTS Preliminary Specifications
The 2014 Cadillac ZTS could cost between $85,000 and $95,000.
The Basics
Vehicle Type: premium large car
Drivetrain (CG estimates)
Drive wheels: all
Engine: 6.2-liter supercharged V8
Horsepower: 500
Torque: 570 pound-feet
Transmission: 6- or 8-speed automatic
Dimensions (CG estimates)
Wheelbase: 120.4 inches
Length: 200.3 inches
Width: 72.6 inches
Height: 57.6 inches
Base curb weight: 3,860 pounds

More information coming soon...

CIWS
11-07-10, 11:20 PM
I guess they didn't learn from the XLR after all.

C&C
11-08-10, 05:20 AM
While certainly out of my price range, this sounds as the right thing to do to position themselves (Cadillac) to be a World contender (as far as a complete car line).

With most things Cadillac I shall quietly stand back and watch (with interest); and root root root for the home team.

The Tony Show
11-08-10, 11:46 AM
I guess they didn't learn from the XLR after all.

I think the XLR failed because it didn't live up to the price, not necessarily because of the price itself. Had the XLR been comparable to an SL550 in interior quality and performance, it would have sold better.

I think there's a market for a near $100k Cadillac, even more in the Premium large car category than in the sport coupe category. As long as the product justifies the price, it'll sell.

hueterm
11-08-10, 12:05 PM
They've got to get the $50-60K pricepoint right w/a large car before trying in the 90s...

Lord Cadillac
11-08-10, 12:30 PM
$50-$60k will go to the XTS. The ZTS - if that's what they really call it - will need to be in the $65-$80k range. I'm worried about a $100k Cadillac at this point in time. It's only my opinion but I think Cadillac should go after cars like the LS460, XJ and Equus before going toe to toe (in price) with cars like the 750i and S550...

The Tony Show
11-08-10, 12:39 PM
I agree, hueterm- I've said here more times than I can count that the timing isn't right for a flagship until they get their more common offerings (CTS, SRX, XTS) perfected. It still might work in limited quantities at this point, but I'd much rather see them get the current lineup and XTS to the top of their class and build brand perception before going both feet into the $85k+ market.

jrosevear
11-08-10, 07:12 PM
One of the prime reasons GM lost market share and went bankrupt was exactly the approach to product you guys seem to be advocating: Don't reach, don't go overboard, don't use the good stuff, cheap it out to be the segment's price leader. BE AFRAID OF THE COMPETITION, in other words. My 2006 CTS-V has a brilliant suspension and powertrain -- and leather and plastics that would be laughed out of a $25k Volkswagen. Why? So they could beat BMW on price, because they didn't have the institutional cojones to go head on at 'em. That's an approach that might keep (most of) the loyalists coming back, but it's not how you win new customers. Not enough.

Those days have to be over if GM is going to be relevant again. Have. To. Be. Over. They're DEFINITELY over in Dearborn.

They should aim at the S-class, period. They should do the best car they know how to do, use their new improved cost structure to offer more value than MB can, and introduce it at a slightly lower price -- and then RAISE that price once the market responds to the quality of the product.

And really, I think that's exactly what they'll do. Because if one thing is clear in this IPO runup, they are learning from their history -- and from Ford's example.

RippyPartsDept
11-08-10, 07:30 PM
tony, this is 3-4 years down the line now... don't forget - the XTS will have been out for about 2 years by the time this hits

Lord Cadillac
11-08-10, 07:50 PM
I agree, I agree, I agree...


One of the prime reasons GM lost market share and went bankrupt was exactly the approach to product you guys seem to be advocating: Don't reach, don't go overboard, don't use the good stuff, cheap it out to be the segment's price leader. BE AFRAID OF THE COMPETITION, in other words. My 2006 CTS-V has a brilliant suspension and powertrain -- and leather and plastics that would be laughed out of a $25k Volkswagen. Why? So they could beat BMW on price, because they didn't have the institutional cojones to go head on at 'em. That's an approach that might keep (most of) the loyalists coming back, but it's not how you win new customers. Not enough.

Those days have to be over if GM is going to be relevant again. Have. To. Be. Over. They're DEFINITELY over in Dearborn.

They should aim at the S-class, period. They should do the best car they know how to do, use their new improved cost structure to offer more value than MB can, and introduce it at a slightly lower price -- and then RAISE that price once the market responds to the quality of the product.

And really, I think that's exactly what they'll do. Because if one thing is clear in this IPO runup, they are learning from their history -- and from Ford's example.

The Tony Show
11-09-10, 11:28 AM
Because if one thing is clear in this IPO runup, they are learning from their history -- and from Ford's example.

What Ford example are you talking about? Ford has made huge strides by improving the quality and perception of their mass market cars (like the Focus, Edge, Flex and Taurus), not by tossing out a $50k flagship car to supplement a mediocre lower product line. If you really feel Cadillac should follow Ford's example, then they should do exactly what I suggested: Make sure the ATS, CTS, SRX and XTS are class leading cars in quality and perception. THEN build a flagship.

Lord Cadillac
11-09-10, 11:45 AM
The DT7 would have been a more appropriate stop gap than the XTS. I think it would have given current Cadillac owners a better upgrade path than the XTS does...

jrosevear
11-09-10, 02:10 PM
What Ford example are you talking about?

The example of not taking a cowardly approach to product development.

The Tony Show
11-09-10, 02:19 PM
The example of not taking a cowardly approach to product development.

Do you consider the Gen II CTS or SRX products of "cowardly" development? Because they're really the only things in Cadillac's lineup at the moment which aren't way past their sell-by date. Both those products have enjoyed either high praise from trade magazines, huge sales, or both.

I think once the DTS is replaced with "something" (XTS, I guess), we can make an accurate appraisal of how aggressive Cadillac's development is.

jrosevear
11-09-10, 03:13 PM
Do you consider the Gen II CTS or SRX products of "cowardly" development?

Both show some signs of having been cost-cut too far to meet a low price target, though thankfully in both cases the problem is much less obvious than it was with their predecessors. Put another way, GM could have spent a little more money, priced the vehicles a little bit higher, and had -- on balance -- considerably more competitive entries -- and should have. Is that cowardly? It's certainly lacking in corporate self-confidence.

In contrast, consider the Cruze. It's not the cheapest car in its class; in fact, it's priced toward the upper end. But it delivers a whole lot of value for money, with no excuses necessary in comparisons with the class sales leaders. It is possible to build a $80k Cadillac sedan that takes exactly the same approach. There is no need to chicken out and build something less first, particularly when there is an urgent business case for a big high-end Cadillac right now (in China).

And really, I don't think they will (chicken out). I think this is all going to happen faster than some believe possible, because GM's new leadership is determined to play offense, not defense.

jrosevear
11-09-10, 03:14 PM
I think once the DTS is replaced with "something" (XTS, I guess), we can make an accurate appraisal of how aggressive Cadillac's development is.

I think it'll be at least a year, maybe as many as 3, before we really understand what "New GM" can and is doing.

Vinsanity
11-10-10, 03:57 PM
they need to drop the ZTS name. I get that it's the flagship, so it gets the last letter, etc., but when you say it out loud, it sounds too much like "CTS".

If they wanted to stick with the final-letter idea, maybe they can call it the Cadillac Omega.

Lord Cadillac
11-10-10, 04:04 PM
You're not the only one saying that about Omega.. When all is said and done, I don't believe the flagship will be named ZTS... We'll see, though.

jrosevear
11-10-10, 06:06 PM
You're not the only one saying that about Omega.. When all is said and done, I don't believe the flagship will be named ZTS... We'll see, though.

If I were inclined to bet on this (which I'm not; I'm not really inclined to bet on anything GM does at this point), I'd place a small wager on "Fleetwood". I get the sense that senior management's goal, in a nutshell, is to turn Cadillac back into Cadillac, and the heritage names may end up being part of that.

RippyPartsDept
11-10-10, 06:21 PM
I'd really like to see that name come back... i'm pretty sure others would too...

i really hope that the product lives up to the namesake (scared that it won't)

:fingerscrossed:

Lord Cadillac
11-10-10, 07:49 PM
I would like "Fleetwood" as well. I think it's the only name fitting of a full-size premium Cadillac. The same was "Escalade" works for the big SUV...