: Oil War !



Submariner409
11-06-10, 04:43 PM
Here we go again. GM has started marketing and recommending a new oil and oils with their specification: DEXOS-1. New GM cars may fail warranty requirements if they don't use it. Ford is working on a similar designation.

The oils are predominantly synthetics, carry the new service designation of SN and GF-5, and must meet GM and Mercedes Benz specs for protection, deposits, and economy.

To get up to speed, Google "gm dexos motor oil". Lots of fact, fiction, fantasy, flat lies. Typical oil war stuff. The war began on 1 October.

There's a companion thread on this way up ^^^ in the new CTS-V threads.

Ranger
11-06-10, 10:23 PM
Let me guess. They will charge about $10/qt. Interesting way to increase revenue. Create your own brand of oil and nullify warranties if it is not used. That is NOT the way to win friends and influence people or create/promote customer loyalty. :tisk:

98eldo32v
11-07-10, 01:02 AM
Another way drive people into the service dept or parts dept.

All it will do in the long run is drive people to other car manufacturer's.

I guess the domestic guys haven't figured out yet that they have driven way a lot of there customer base over the last 20-25 years with so-so engineering, styling and gas mileage.

Now that carlines have been trimmed back/dropped (unheard of decisions) and you're building a decent vehicle, you want to "stick it" to them by forcing them to use a particular brand of oil? What happens when the car is out of warranty?

You think someone is going to drop 50 dollars into an oil change? Many on a luxury car, but not on a cavalier, ion or ford focus.......

What a joke. The manufactures must really think that the "whole" population is that dumb.......

98eldo32v
11-07-10, 01:10 AM
DEXOS-1????? The nerve of them...

After all the drama DEXCOOL and their penny pinching plastic intake gaskets, their plastic intake manifolds that warp under heat you're using a name as Dexos-1 for your oil? INSANITY.

Let's see how well it works.....If it's anything like the forementioned above items, it'll probably ruin the motor faster......

RippyPartsDept
11-07-10, 01:12 AM
our dexos is actually cheaper than mobil1... almost half

and afaik it's a semi-syn

98eldo32v
11-07-10, 01:39 AM
Rippy,
Just out of curosity, what are you selling it for over the counter? What's the service dept charging for their oil change with this stuff?

98eldo32v
11-07-10, 03:29 AM
Today must not be my gm day.......

Right now I'm working on my daughters 2004 impala with the 3800 engine. The 3800 has always been a very good engine and over the years it's received it's refinements.

I had to limp the impala home after she called and said it was leaking water and started to run hot. I always told her any car starts to run hot shut it down and let if cool off.

I get to the car (with extra bottles of water) and look under the hood. Something was leaking but I can't tell where. I fill up the car with water, and attempt to make it home. It starts to run hot, I shut it down & pop the hood. I see water leaking under the lower intake manifold, I said great. I know what it is. IT'S THOSE DAMN PLASTIC CONNECTORS!!!!

COME ON!!!!!!!! DAMN@!

It's this kind of stupidity in cutting corners that makes people wonder "why did they use PLASTIC on something like this?"

Well 3.85, that's right THREE DOLLARS AND EIGHTY FIVE CENTS later, I have the connectors and I'm putting it back together..........

I can hear the penny pinchers now, "let's use plastic on this?!" Another one says "brillant?!"

Submariner409
11-07-10, 10:03 AM
Guys, read the Google DEXOS stuff - the name is a GM product, yes, BUT Pennzoil Platinum, Quaker State synthetic (both are Shell oils) and the new Mobil 1 meet the DEXOS spec, so you can continue to run your favorite engine oils - it will just take time for all the blenders to get to the new GF5 - SN motor oil grade............. right now our motor oils are GF4 - SM. 5 years ago oils were SL.

Just like successions of Type A, ATF, Type F, DEXRON, MERCON, DEXRON/MERCON, DEXRON-III, DEXRON-VI transmission fluids, engine oils constantly develop new formulations to help lubricate miniature engines on steroids that make 450 hp.

stoveguyy
11-07-10, 12:22 PM
true it is a new spec but its only for NEW cars. 98% of people on this board have cars that do not use this oil. but my wifes new car uses 0w-20 which is only syn oil. and semi-syn blends are usually 10% syn/90% dino. high performance formula there.

Submariner409
11-07-10, 12:48 PM
true it is a new spec but its only for NEW cars. 98% of people on this board have cars that do not use this oil. but my wifes new car uses 0w-20 which is only syn oil. and semi-syn blends are usually 10% syn/90% dino. high performance formula there.

Just as every oil spec supersedes an earlier spec, within 2 years the only oil on the shelves will be SN - just go out now and try to find SL, and that's only been about 3 - 5 years.

EDIT: Just went out to the shop and rooted through my oil stock - all the Pennzoil dino and synthetic multigrade I have is SM, but a case of Pennzoil dino marine SAE30 is SL, and it's not a starburst oil.

Ranger
11-07-10, 01:47 PM
Guys, read the Google DEXOS stuff - the name is a GM product, yes, BUT Pennzoil Platinum, Quaker State synthetic (both are Shell oils) and the new Mobil 1 meet the DEXOS spec, so you can continue to run your favorite engine oils - it will just take time for all the blenders to get to the new GF5 - SN motor oil grade............. right now our motor oils are GF4 - SM. 5 years ago oils were SL.

Just like successions of Type A, ATF, Type F, DEXRON, MERCON, DEXRON/MERCON, DEXRON-III, DEXRON-VI transmission fluids, engine oils constantly develop new formulations to help lubricate miniature engines on steroids that make 450 hp.

But in post #1 you said "GM has started marketing and recommending a new oil and oils with their specification: DEXOS-1. New GM cars may fail warranty requirements if they don't use it. "

Submariner409
11-07-10, 05:47 PM
.......and oils with their specification: DEXOS-1.

GM's pet name is DEXOS-1, but if an oil comes to the GM spec it will be a GF5/SN oil and then it's OK to run in your new GM vehicle - you don't have to use GM's oil itself - only one that meets the spec, just as every other oil made has a slew of GM, Ford, Cummins, Caterpillar, Honda, MB - you name it - certifications on the back label.

The new SN rated Pennzoil Platinum, Quaker State premium synthetic and Mobil 1 already meet the spec. Eventually all starburst oils will be an SN rated oil.

......for clarity the sentence should have read: "GM has started marketing a new house brand oil named DEXOS-1 and recommends oils with that specification be used.........." and/or "New GM cars may fail warranty requirements if they don't use a DEXOS-spec oil".

Ranger
11-07-10, 10:10 PM
Ahh, OK that makes more sense, but hasn't that always been the case and isn't that pretty much standard lawyerese written into every owners manual? How could they tell what kind of oil you used if you brought it in for an oil related warranty job?

Submariner409
11-08-10, 09:57 AM
Ahh, OK that makes more sense, but hasn't that always been the case and isn't that pretty much standard lawyerese written into every owners manual? How could they tell what kind of oil you used if you brought it in for an oil related warranty job?

Yeah that ^^^. Years back you could find owner's manuals that said use an oil of such and such a designation - SF or SG comes to mind, but then for a while the formulations changed so rapidly due to oil chemistry progress and the damned EPA that the manuals went to a blanket statement of viscosity approvals - my 2002 owner's manual makes no mention of SJ or SL oils which were the designation in 02. That makes possibly four oil designation changes since 2000........

Just like DEXRON-III and the new DEXRON-VI, the latest and greatest in motor oils must satisfy the lube requirements for engines up to XX years old. BUT, we KNOW that the new SM and SN oils do not have the ZDP load of earlier products, so that's why some of us recommend HD fleet and marine oils of the proper viscosity for flat-tappet engines.

Ranger, remember when Kendall was "The 2000 mile oil" ?

Ranger
11-08-10, 12:50 PM
I don't recall that, but I DO remember the name.

AJxtcman
11-08-10, 01:28 PM
I was up at the parts counter and found a memo about Dexos1. WTF is Dexos1? So I read the article and then did some research.

Take a look
dexos1 - Bob Is The Oil Guy (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1868508)

GM Introduces Dexos I and Dexos II - Bob Is The Oil Guy (http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=1486884&fpart=1)


GM’s new Global Engine Oil Standard for gasoline engines is “dexos1”. It will be factory for all GM vehicles starting with the 2011 model introduction. It replaces current GM oil service ratings on a global basis and will therefore become the recommended oil for most GM vehicles in North America.
Free Maintenance on 2011 Cadillac's so why complain?

AJxtcman
11-12-10, 08:38 AM
http://www.gmdexos.com/

Submariner409
11-12-10, 11:11 AM
http://www.gmdexos.com/

Make sure you read the green box: Other brands of motor oils meet the GM Dexos specs.

dkozloski
11-12-10, 02:20 PM
Dump in Stanavo and plenty of ZMax and you'll be good to go.

Submariner409
11-12-10, 02:25 PM
Dump in Stanavo and plenty of ZMax and you'll be good to go.

I would be very careful with the amount of zMAX: Pour in too much and the engine will be so efficient that the fuel produced by the economical chemical reaction flows backwards through the pre-ported polished porosity piping to the injectors and then the tank will overflow and set scads of codes, but if you're quick, the excess fuel can be drained off and sold to offset the price of the zMAX. $22 for one jug or $38 for both types (gas/oil) is a bit much.

I don't like Stanavo either but Drano seems to keep things clean.

EDIT: At 1500 EST I went over to Western Auto to p/u some lawnmower parts. Went over to the snake oil aisle and read the zMAX boxes. Why GM and every other automaker on earth doesn't use this stuff to drastically raise their fuel economy numbers and lower their engine warranty returns to almost zero is simply beyond me. According to the box(es) what this stuff does for your gas and engine is just stunningly miraculous !!! Even the molecules in the stuff are smaller than oil molecules ! What a radical discovery ! We don't need long-chain molecules for lubrication any more ! (If that's the case, a slug of simple paint thinner will accomplish the same thing.......)

98eldo32v
11-12-10, 02:29 PM
dexos™ is a high quality, robust oil that will contribute to longer drain intervals (meaning a customer can go longer between oil changes).

Oh boy. You mean like the dexcool......look what that got us.......

Ranger
11-12-10, 10:51 PM
I would be very careful with the amount of zMAX: Pour in too much and the engine will be so efficient that the fuel produced by the economical chemical reaction flows backwards through the pre-ported polished porosity piping to the injectors and then the tank will overflow and set scads of codes, but if you're quick, the excess fuel can be drained off and sold to offset the price of the zMAX. $22 for one jug or $38 for both types (gas/oil) is a bit much.

I don't like Stanavo either but Drano seems to keep things clean.

EDIT: At 1500 EST I went over to Western Auto to p/u some lawnmower parts. Went over to the snake oil aisle and read the zMAX boxes. Why GM and every other automaker on earth doesn't use this stuff to drastically raise their fuel economy numbers and lower their engine warranty returns to almost zero is simply beyond me. According to the box(es) what this stuff does for your gas and engine is just stunningly miraculous !!! Even the molecules in the stuff are smaller than oil molecules ! What a radical discovery ! We don't need long-chain molecules for lubrication any more ! (If that's the case, a slug of simple paint thinner will accomplish the same thing.......)

Now there you go again, applying logic. Don't you know you are supposed to park logic at the door when going in and reading that marketing hype on those bottles in the snake oil isle and take that stuff as fact?

RippyPartsDept
11-12-10, 11:51 PM
Rippy,
Just out of curosity, what are you selling it for over the counter? What's the service dept charging for their oil change with this stuff?

sorry for the late reply
i think a forum bug may have hidden this thread from me since i posted to it... after i posted it didn't show up in my subscribed threads or anywhere i looked on the site...

then tonight... it's back due to ranger's post... weird


..... anyway, to answer your question we only have dexos in our bulk drum so we can't sell it over the counter, but it's $30 for 6 or 8 quarts ($16 more than the $14 we charge for dino oil, and $20 cheaper than the $50 we charge for mobil1)

dino oil changes are $39 w/ dino oil

cheers,
chris

RippyPartsDept
11-12-10, 11:57 PM
ran across the GM Techlink article about dexos (http://www.sandyblogs.com/techlink/2010/09/the-new-gm-dexos-engine-oil-specification.html) (from september this year, i think) for anyone interested in a little more reading