: The new Buick GS gets a WHOPPING 255 horsepower! W0W!



Lord Cadillac
11-04-10, 02:04 PM
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/04/2012-buick-regal-gs-revealed/

0-60 should come in under 7 seconds. No all wheel drive.. And we're hoping it starts at under $40k. Does this not have "fail" written all over it? Why is this a "GS" model? This is the "new" Buick? Buick basically pulled this car from Opel, put on a Buick front and rear fascia - but left the AWD and 325 horsepower engine. I just don't get it.

Can anyone explain to me what has happened?

Jesda
11-04-10, 02:19 PM
$40k for a near-luxury car without Lexus levels of refinement or BMW levels of performance. At least, that's what I'm getting out of this article.

Chad's Regal has more power.

orconn
11-04-10, 02:30 PM
Are we looking at another GM "Catera" debacle?

Jesda
11-04-10, 02:46 PM
Hmm, Catera could have been a nice car for Buick.

ga_etc
11-04-10, 03:33 PM
http://www.motortrend.com/roadtests/sedans/1011_2012_buick_regal_gs_look/index.html

255hp/295tq 2.0 I4 twin-scroll turbo, 6 speed manual, FWD, mid-30k base price.

Stingroo
11-04-10, 03:54 PM
Sal even the article you quoted says 255hp.

Playdrv4me
11-04-10, 06:17 PM
Even 255 is kinda meh for this category of car, not to mention the NVH improvements that could be realized with a stout V6 option. This is a really pretty car but the lack of such things as a V6 and HID headlights are really head scratching.

Lord Cadillac
11-04-10, 06:44 PM
It was a typo.. I knew it was 255 and was disappointed...


Sal even the article you quoted says 255hp.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-04-10, 06:58 PM
255hp & 295 lb/ft is OK, but nothing breathtaking in 2011. I'm at 240hp and 280 lb/ft, but no slower in the 0-60. I'll do it in 6.7 seconds whereas Buick quotes "under seven seconds" for the new GS. The big improvement on this one is the six speed manual. That's something that'll really appeal to all those cross shopping the TSX and S40.

It won't steal sales from the 3 Series though. It's too small, doesn't offer a six cylinder and doesn't come in RWD.

Anyways, I'm glad to see it. Buick is really trying hard as of late and it's showing.

Jesda
11-04-10, 07:36 PM
The feel of a turbo is pretty amazing though, with an almost electric feel. But I wonder if Americans will warm up to it.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-04-10, 07:47 PM
To me, the rush of a turbo kicking in always felt like the rush of a DOHC V-8 coming "into it's cam". Where you get nothing...nothing...nothing...then it picks up and takes off and surprises the heck out of you!

V-Eight
11-04-10, 08:08 PM
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/11/04/2012-buick-regal-gs-revealed/

0-60 should come in under 7 seconds. No all wheel drive.. And we're hoping it starts at under $40k. Does this not have "fail" written all over it? Why is this a "GS" model? This is the "new" Buick? Buick basically pulled this car from Opel, put on a Buick front and rear fascia - but left the AWD and 325 horsepower engine. I just don't get it.

Can anyone explain to me what has happened?

The 'new' GM pulled an 'old' GM and ****ed up......hard

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-04-10, 08:34 PM
It just follows the same guidelines that a domestic manufacturer takes one of their foreign offerings, waters it down a bit and then offers it for sale over here. When will they ever learn?

However, I am starting to see some of the new Regals on the roads around here and they look good!

Playdrv4me
11-04-10, 09:53 PM
Somehow I get the feeling that "turbo-spool" is not anywhere on the list of "must-haves" for any regular Buick buyer.

Stingroo
11-04-10, 09:56 PM
Doesn't mean it can't be done.

Needs two more cylinders though, IMO.

EChas3
11-04-10, 11:16 PM
No RWD or AWD? It's not a serious enthusiast car.

Almost 300 ft lb torque is impressive from a I4 but if it's transverse mounted it must be crappy under throttle. 40G? Who would buy this?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-04-10, 11:24 PM
The last time a FWD car had this much power from an I-4 and a turbocharger, it was the SRT-4. I agree though, to be really refined and competitive in it's class, it should be either RWD or FWD.

The newest issue of Car and Driver puts the Regal Turbo against the TSX and Passat 2.0 turbo. It was third. :(
I haven't read the article to tell why, but it's much, much slower than the other two. We're talking atleast one second slower in the 0-60.

ga_etc
11-05-10, 04:18 AM
The last time a FWD car had this much power from an I-4 and a turbocharger, it was the SRT-4.

Chevy Cobalt SS and the HHR SS are both powered by a 2.0 Ecotec turbo I4 making 260hp/260tq. And I just looked at Chevy's website and on the 2010 models you can order a "stage kit" that bumps the power to 280! The SRT-4, when still offered, was only 230hp/250tq without adding a stage kit.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-05-10, 08:22 AM
Oh, wow. Totally forgot about the Cobalt SS. Probably because they weren't as prevalent/annoying as the SRT-4.

Aron9000
11-05-10, 11:06 AM
It just follows the same guidelines that a domestic manufacturer takes one of their foreign offerings, waters it down a bit and then offers it for sale over here. When will they ever learn?

However, I am starting to see some of the new Regals on the roads around here and they look good!

This. Why can't GM/Ford figure out that the competition in the US market is just as ruthless as it is in Europe. I mean BMW/Audi/Benz sell the same shit over here that they do in Europe, minus most of the diesel options.

I also think that selling both the LaCrosse and Regal over here is another mistake. They're both priced similarily, and about the same size. Where is Buick's full size offering? Where is Cadillac's full size? Where is Chevy's full size sedan? I'm getting quite pissed off at GM for neglecting the full size sedan segment. If you notice right around 1980 is when GM's fortunes started to slide, right around the same time their full size cars got crap motors, then they went almost extinct 5 years later.:sbox:

drewsdeville
11-05-10, 11:26 AM
I think it was a mixture of things.

If you look at sales figures for full sizers at the end (late '80's/early '90's), consumer interest in the genre was really dropping off, fast. At the same time, the new midsized cars coming out at the time were really taking off, like the Ford Taurus, GM's w-body, and Chryslers LH platform, as well as pickups and SUV's. Consumers were soaking it up, willingly. It's not like they were forced at gunpoint to avoid full sized cars.

GM and Fords last true full sizers, the B-body and panther, are perfect examples. Towards the end, those vehicles sold very poorly (outside of fleet, which is extremely low-profit). Consequently, the manufacturers ran the platforms into the ground and when they were finally done, focused production on trucks and midsized. The public has spoken. Full sizers really don't sell. I think this is especially true today due to the pickup and SUV wars that continue to escalate and improve, and sales continue to increase despite rising energy costs/high cost of operation. In parallel to the other thread, if people want big, a car doesn't suffice. They go straight for the truck. Otherwise, it's down to the midsized.

There are plenty of garages in this country with an SUV parked next to a midsized sedan. If full sizers were popular, there'd be a Grand Marquis in every other garage.

That's not to say that there's no room for full sized at all. I think it's a good option to have in the higher end labels, but certainly not Chevy or Buick. Save it for Cadillac. Besides, GM neglecting the full sized market and focusing on the high volume markets is probably the smartest thing they could do right now, given their situation.

In the end, I'm sure GM does it's homework and knows far more about the auto market than we do. If they could sell full sized cars, they'd surely know about it and they wouldn't bail on all of those possible sales. The fact that they (and other manufacturers) don't have a true full sized car says that there probably isn't a market for it.

Jesda
11-05-10, 01:03 PM
What the world needs is more crossovers. :alchi:

These next 10 years will be very interesting.

hueterm
11-05-10, 03:27 PM
4 Cylinder in a Buick = FAIL.

No more explanation needed...

Rolex
11-05-10, 03:33 PM
.....
However, I am starting to see some of the new Regals on the roads around here and they look good!

+1

Now if the aftermarket will offer some kind of boxed forced induction system the performance will go with the looks.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-05-10, 06:34 PM
When they came back with the 300/Charger/Magnum, Chrysler proved that there was still a market for full size, RWD sedans.

Too bad GM and Ford keep looking beyond it. :nono:

Jesda
11-05-10, 06:47 PM
Ford was like "Here's the Five Hundred. Have fun guys!"

The Tony Show
11-05-10, 06:49 PM
Mid $30s for a car with good looks and these features:


• Passive keyless entry with push-button start
• Standard XM Satellite Radio with three-month trial service
• Harmon/Kardon premium 320-watt sound system with nine speakers
• Bluetooth phone connectivity
• Leather-wrapped flat-bottom steering wheel with audio controls
• Leather-appointed sport seating
• Heated driver and front passenger seats, with 12-way adjustable driver and front passenger seats – including four-way lumbar adjustment
• 120-volt accessory power outlet
• Power windows with express up/down feature in the front and express down in the rear.
• Front and rear ultrasonic parking assist
• Bi-xenon HID headlamps.

..is a pretty nice deal. If it handles well and has a crisp gearbox, it could be a contender. I could see myself driving one of these in heartbeat if the feel is good.

While it might rank below some of the Euro offerings in enthusiast mags like MT, I bet a lot of people will dig the unique looks and good feature set. Buick is looking to tap the Lexus market, not BMW- that's where Cadillac is headed. The Lexus ES350 has a 6.8 second 0-60, less features, tons of body roll and milquetoast looks, and that things sells gangbusters. Not everyone bases their purchase on lap times and 0-60.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-05-10, 06:49 PM
I do believe the most prestigious/popular Buick offered in China, the Park Avenue, is RWD as well.

hueterm
11-05-10, 07:40 PM
The 500 was a snoozefest. Comfortable and big, but mediocre power and styling. If Ford had launched w/the current Taurus, things might have been different....

Lord Cadillac
11-05-10, 07:48 PM
I could be wrong, Tony, because I haven't looked at all the specs - but I thought the Regal would be closer competition to the Lexus IS than the ES. Isn't the ES what the LaCrosse is compared to? The IS350 is the range topper for the IS series (forget the IS-F for now) and does 0-60 in 5.3 seconds. The Buick GS is the range topper for Buick in this segment and we're probably just bearly getting to 60 in under 7 seconds.

What really has me aggravated - and a good portion of the automotive internet as well - is this "GS" is probably going to be a $35k car that's slower than any midsize import's range topper - even those with no pretense of being sporty. How can GM/Buick answer with something like this?

Shouldn't GM/Buick be raising the bar? We're trying to put our best foot forward. Aren't we? And this is what we get? Here's a few quotes I've seen so far - and understand where the people are coming from...


The real problem with this car is that the styling, brakes, and seats give the impression of a performance sedan created in the same image as the original Taurus SHO. Unfortunately, there is just no way the engine can live up to that, which makes all those other performance bits seem rather pointless.


Something else to chew on. A year or less after this car debuts Ford will be marketing a 305hp, 3.7L-powered Fusion sedan with awd.


Calling this Regal trim package GRAND SPORT is huge victory for GM beancounters and marketing know-nothings. I don't blame engineers for delivering this (but I laugh when I recall G8 based performance target for Regal), they were ordered to deliver per marketing approved spec sheet. I think I see where the problem originated from the beginning.

Most people agree that this car LOOKS really, really nice. Inside and out - this is a very nice car. It's just far too weak for what's it's supposed to be..


While it might rank below some of the Euro offerings in enthusiast mags like MT, I bet a lot of people will dig the unique looks and good feature set. Buick is looking to tap the Lexus market, not BMW- that's where Cadillac is headed. The Lexus ES350 has a 6.8 second 0-60, less features, tons of body roll and milquetoast looks, and that things sells gangbusters. Not everyone bases their purchase on lap times and 0-60.

Jesda
11-05-10, 08:00 PM
It looks like Buick's lineup is turning into an enhanced version of their decade-earlier offerings:

Century -> Lacrosse
Regal -> Regal
Rendezvous -> Enclave
Park Avenue -> Lucerne

Of course, quality and attention to detail are dramatically improved.


HERE COMES WORDS:
A couple days ago one of my professors was praising his family's 1993 Skylark, a car they bought brand new and passed on from person to person, now the property of his daughter who just learned to drive. It has 170k and he says there hasn't been one single problem. It reminded me of the annoying but memorable Toyota ad where the Lund family buys nothing but Camrys and passes the old ones down to each new driver.

Buick, at least since the early 90s, has been a brand for American families. Regal GS was for "The supercharged family" and Park Avenue was for reasonably successful, aging empty nesters. They sold a lot of cars during that period. I wonder if they'll be as successful by positioning their products on the level of Lexus? Buicks are better now, but the target is higher too. Its a bit of a marketing risk.

drewsdeville
11-05-10, 08:02 PM
Yeah, there seems to be confusion in this thread as to what class this Regal falls in. There are a few comparisons made here that really don't make sense because of it.

From what GM is saying, the Regal is a COMPACT car, NOT a midsized. GM's midsized platform is the Epsilon II, the Buick LaCrosse, which is doing a pretty good job. The Regal is no longer the midsizer that the previous w-body Regal/Century was.

I see it as this:
Regal/Century -> Lacrosse
Rendezvous -> Enclave
Park Avenue -> Lucerne
(no previous comparison)??? -> Regal

I combine the Regal/Century because while they were technically different models, they were pretty much the same car. I don't think there was enough distinction to put them in seperate markets or classes.

I wouldn't exactly call the new Regal part of a rehash of the '90's.

So, if it's competing in this class, I'd say the numbers look pretty good. It's right on target with the Audi A4 and the Acura TSX, minus the AWD offering. But really, will that be a dealbreaker? Most of the TSX's and A4's I see out there are the standard FWD's anyway. Apparently, that's where the money is. Besides, I'm sure GM could easily create an AWD offering at a later MY if they felt the need. I don't think the first-year lack of AWD will kill the Regal.

Stingroo
11-05-10, 08:23 PM
I never knew the TSX even HAD AWD availible.

And I would say the 90's Skylark is the Regal's spiritual predecessor.

Lord Cadillac
11-05-10, 08:27 PM
I've seen a manual TSX do 0-60 in 6 seconds flat. I know others have got 5.9 before.. The A4 wont be much faster than the Regal but you do have the S4 if you want to upgrade. I don't think the lack of all wheel drive will be a deal breaker for the GS. I just wish Buick raised the bar a little higher. Like many others, I had high hopes for this car...

drewsdeville
11-05-10, 08:40 PM
I think Buick should stay right where it's at. If it raises the bar, then you risk approaching Cadillac's competition. You don't want your own brands competing with each other. GM already killed a few names off to prevent stuff like that.

Perhaps, instead of decking this Regal out, they should offer a Cadillac variant that has the significant upgrades you mention? Now that I think about it, weren't there rumors of a compact Cadillac ATS?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-05-10, 08:40 PM
So, if it's competing in this class, I'd say the numbers look pretty good. It's right on target with the Audi A4 and the Acura TSX, minus the AWD offering. But really, will that be a dealbreaker? Most of the TSX's and A4's I see out there are the standard FWD's anyway. Apparently, that's where the money is. Besides, I'm sure GM could easily create an AWD offering at a later MY if they felt the need. I don't think the first-year lack of AWD will kill the Regal.

That's exactly how I thought of the Regal. It's an entry level compact sporty/luxury sedan. It's not a flat-out SPORTS sedan like a 3 Series is, but rather something a little tamer and milder. To me, it's biggest competitors will be the TSX, S40, G25 and IS250, and maybe the ES350 as well, but that's a little bigger and softer than the Regal.



It looks like Buick's lineup is turning into an enhanced version of their decade-earlier offerings:

Century -> Lacrosse
Regal -> Regal
Rendezvous -> Enclave
Park Avenue -> Lucerne

Of course, quality and attention to detail are dramatically improved.


HERE COMES WORDS:
A couple days ago one of my professors was praising his family's 1993 Skylark, a car they bought brand new and passed on from person to person, now the property of his daughter who just learned to drive. It has 170k and he says there hasn't been one single problem. It reminded me of the annoying but memorable Toyota ad where the Lund family buys nothing but Camrys and passes the old ones down to each new driver.

Buick, at least since the early 90s, has been a brand for American families. Regal GS was for "The supercharged family" and Park Avenue was for reasonably successful, aging empty nesters. They sold a lot of cars during that period. I wonder if they'll be as successful by positioning their products on the level of Lexus? Buicks are better now, but the target is higher too. Its a bit of a marketing risk.

I'd say that the Century's position has largely been deleted. They no longer offer a small-engined, softly sprung, six passenger midsize family sedan. However, the rest of the analogy rings true.

I have most of the Buick brochures from that era, and it's interesting to read how the cars were marketed. The Regal was for example was marketed as "the car for supercharged families". The LeSabre was often toted as being the top selling full size family sedan in America. The Riviera was toted as being the car you desire through all the years of having to settle and dote around in less than stellar cars.

ga_etc
11-05-10, 09:44 PM
I never knew the TSX even HAD AWD availible.

The current gen is available with AWD if you get the V6(also a new option).

Playdrv4me
11-05-10, 10:27 PM
That's exactly how I thought of the Regal. It's an entry level compact sporty/luxury sedan. It's not a flat-out SPORTS sedan like a 3 Series is, but rather something a little tamer and milder. To me, it's biggest competitors will be the TSX, S40, G25 and IS250, and maybe the ES350 as well, but that's a little bigger and softer than the Regal.

If this is the case then they are doing a horrible job marketing it. I would agree that if they made it clear that they were competing with that class, it might be a somewhat reasonable package (although I agree with Sal that even then the power is still a little on the weak side). The problem is you see a commercial splashing a beautiful, flowy car all over the screen with nothing more than "The new Sport Injected Buick Regal" and you instantly THINK of the larger more powerful mid-sized car that carried that name before. If you want to compete with entry level S40s and TSXs, Regal was poor nomenclature.

The Tony Show
11-06-10, 10:11 AM
Just a wild ass question, but maybe they're getting the car to the market now to have it be seen on the road, but a more powerful drivetrain that isn't yet ready will be put in place in a year or two? GM did the same thing with the SRX, so it's not that outlandish to consider.

Jesda
11-06-10, 10:47 AM
Just a wild ass question, but maybe they're getting the car to the market now to have it be seen on the road, but a more powerful drivetrain that isn't yet ready will be put in place in a year or two? GM did the same thing with the SRX, so it's not that outlandish to consider.

That sounds very plausible. GM certainly has a habit of doing this.

CTS comes out, 3.6 shows up a year later.
'92 Seville comes out, Northstar shows up a year later.

Sucks for the folks who buy the first year.

The Tony Show
11-06-10, 12:30 PM
The foundation in the car is solid- looks, tech, seats, handling, etc. The only area it really lags the IS350 is in power, so perhaps something like the FWD Turbo V6 that's going in the SRX will get dropped in if their market research shows it's wanted.

Jesda
11-06-10, 12:58 PM
I'd say that the Century's position has largely been deleted. They no longer offer a small-engined, softly sprung, six passenger midsize family sedan. However, the rest of the analogy rings true.



Yeah youre right, the new Lacrosse really doesnt displace the Century. Century was more of a Camry competitor.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-06-10, 01:04 PM
The foundation in the car is solid- looks, tech, seats, handling, etc. The only area it really lags the IS350 is in power, so perhaps something like the FWD Turbo V6 that's going in the SRX will get dropped in if their market research shows it's wanted.

I was just reading about that same 2.8L turbo V6 in the 2011 Saab 9-5. Car and Driver said it makes good power, but they said the powerband wasn't very linear.

The Tony Show
11-06-10, 04:40 PM
I was just reading about that same 2.8L turbo V6 in the 2011 Saab 9-5. Car and Driver said it makes good power, but they said the powerband wasn't very linear.

The tuning of the transmission is wonky in those. Mated to a manual 6 speed, I bet the 2.8T would be a blast.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
11-06-10, 05:17 PM
Should be. It makes the same power and torque numbers as the Northstars.

Lord Cadillac
11-08-10, 01:57 PM
At the time of this post, the voting is going as follows:

Does The 2012 Buick Regal GS Meet Your Expectations?
No, it's just another front wheel drive sedan. 60.87%
Maybe, I'll wait until I drive it. 23.19%
Yes, absolutely! Sign me up. 15.94%

It's getting slammed all around the internet. Even on Buick's own blog and Facebook page...

http://www.motorauthority.com/blog/1051302_poll-does-the-2012-buick-regal-gs-meet-your-expectations