: Northstar gone for 2011 STS MY



Northern SRX
10-26-10, 02:31 PM
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/25/cadiilac-sts-trudges-into-2011-model-year-sans-v8-engine

If my experience was at all common, this might be the right thing to do (I was initially very attracted to the STS-4 w/Northstar and ended up buying a CTS-4 with the 3.6DI plant). Nevertheless, I feel a pang for the loss of this option.

Pity.

EChas3
10-26-10, 02:48 PM
http://www.autoblog.com/2010/10/25/cadiilac-sts-trudges-into-2011-model-year-sans-v8-engine

If my experience was at all common, this might be the right thing to do (I was initially very attracted to the STS-4 w/Northstar and ended up buying a CTS-4 with the 3.6DI plant). Nevertheless, I feel a pang for the loss of this option.

Pity.

I've also read here that this means no more ACC. That option is now only available from Cadillac on the DTS.

Is that 'fully loaded' STS (1SC?) available with MRC, ZF Steering, JE5 brakes & Performance Cooling? Maybe since they have deigned to offer 18" wheels.

Those low mileage factory program 1SG's are looking better all the time.

torogt
11-20-10, 11:46 AM
Its really sad to see the STS go. And i cant believe the northstar is going to be gone. when i bought my 2006 STS4 i test drove the v6 and v8 and the CTS 4. My personal opinion is the STS is a better car and the v8 just tops it off. My wife said the v6 sounds to much like a lawnmower under full throttle.

ryannel2003
11-20-10, 01:49 PM
Unfortunately the V8 never sold in big numbers and the handling suffered due to the extra weight on the front of the car. I too preferred the V8 mainly because it offered more right there, right now power over the V6 which had to build up it's torque more. Plus, the V8 is more refined and is smoother throughout the powerband. I will miss the Northstar, but Cadillac let it sit around too long without any updates.

cadillacdriver25
11-20-10, 02:41 PM
a request from a Cadillac Lover :)

it is for me not clear why the cancel the V8 in the STS. the environment thing is ridiculous... in germany we have also law´s to protect the environment but our car manufacturer also has V8 or also V12 in their cars.

so the gas mileage?? well the N* V8 has a great gas mileage! much better than some Bmw´s 6zylinders or especially V8´s.

In my opinion as a Cadillac enginge will be only a V8 the worhty engine! cadillac was the first manufacturer who produce the first mass V8.

On the other hand the Northstar was one of the best V8 on the planet! and now it s history?
sometimes I don´t understand the cadillac management! they invented very good things... after years other car brands make the same thing. Cadillac deleted it from their programm e.x. autroniy eye, self solved praking brake, power trunk... and other brands do it like they invented it! I hate it!
especially in germany sure all the german brands only invented everything... its a pain in the ass :)

never mind for me i love to drive the V8 sure i also drove the v6 but sorry the v8 is much more luxury than the v6. doesn´t matter if highway or city driving... the engine pull the car much easier forward than the v6... and a V8 sound s so much more better!!!

well hope the english wasn´t that bad:)

greets from a Cadillac lover and life time cadillac driver in germany :)

turnne
11-20-10, 03:25 PM
Unfortunately the V8 never sold in big numbers and the handling suffered due to the extra weight on the front of the car... but Cadillac let it sit around too long without any updates.

There are the three biggest reasons its not around
IMO...his points hit it right on the head
Especially the first one


Warren

jedhead
11-20-10, 08:45 PM
The Northstar was limited in its displacement, you couldn't bore it out or increase the stroke to keep up the higher specific output power plants the competitors use. The future performance power plant to replace the Northstar will be a direct injected turbo V6.

Bob

turnne
11-20-10, 09:10 PM
The Northstar was limited in its displacement, you couldn't bore it out or increase the stroke to keep up the higher specific output power plants the competitors use. The future performance power plant to replace the Northstar will be a direct injected turbo V6.

Bob

There was another premium V8 in the works right?
I know that was scrapped...but someone here had a link at one time to a new V8 that was to be the successor to the Northstar


Warren

pjbizjak
11-20-10, 09:34 PM
A Cadillac without a V-8, SHAME SHAME SHAME

ryannel2003
11-20-10, 10:09 PM
There was another premium V8 in the works right?
I know that was scrapped...but someone here had a link at one time to a new V8 that was to be the successor to the Northstar


Warren

The Ultra V8 was supposed to replace the Northstar, but it was cancelled before GM went into bankruptcy. I'm sure the Gov't sure didn't help things either with the new CAFE laws being put into effect within the next few years. It's unfortunate... I feel Cadillac can't be competitive with the German's and Japanese without a really good V8 engine.

jedhead
11-20-10, 10:55 PM
I think the LSA engine in the CTS-V is very good. The CTS-V is kicking butt on AMG and M Series. Sure it doesn't have DOHC and 32 valves, but the engine works well.

Bob

EChas3
11-21-10, 01:24 AM
Even though pushrod V8's offer many advantages in a street car, buyers of high-end cars consider them antiquated and only value designs with DOHC & 4 valves per cylinder. In seeking success against Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Infinity, etc, Cadillac has to overcome the tarnish staining the US auto industry (deserved or not). Many buyers of those other makes would never even consider a Cadillac, regardless of how well it measures up against their favorites.

Advantages of a pushrod V8 include a lighter & smaller 'package', low-end torque and simple and reliable valve-train.

KRSTS
11-21-10, 11:54 AM
GM's 3.6-Liter VVT Engine With Direct Injection is cutting edge engineering

http://www.gmpowertrain.ca/Product/3.6%20VVT%20DI/LLT%20Summary.pdf

turnne
11-21-10, 05:48 PM
Even though pushrod V8's offer many advantages in a street car, buyers of high-end cars consider them antiquated and only value designs with DOHC & 4 valves per cylinder. In seeking success against Mercedes, BMW, Lexus, Infinity, etc, Cadillac has to overcome the tarnish staining the US auto industry (deserved or not). Many buyers of those other makes would never even consider a Cadillac, regardless of how well it measures up against their favorites.
.

And lets face it...it doesn't. We can start with the handling, or the voice activation system, or the smoothness of the engine
Its not there...well..better stated I think they should have debuted a new V8 in 2005
The Northstar...though reliable and bugs worked out in latter years.....was long on tooth by 2005

To compete with those brands, especially the Germans that they seem to keep chasing, they are going to have to have a new advanced V8
Otherwise they will choose the path that Lincoln has done recently...which to be quite honest is likely more profitable


Warren

turnne
11-21-10, 05:49 PM
GM's 3.6-Liter VVT Engine With Direct Injection is cutting edge engineering

http://www.gmpowertrain.ca/Product/3.6%20VVT%20DI/LLT%20Summary.pdf


and just think if this was the basis for a new V8


Warren

KRSTS
11-21-10, 06:39 PM
and just think if this was the basis for a new V8


Warren

Awesome::worship::worship::worship:

KRSTS
11-21-10, 06:42 PM
and just think if this was the basis for a new V8


Warren

Awesome:worship::worship::worship::worship::worshi p:

torogt
11-22-10, 12:48 AM
GM's 3.6-Liter VVT Engine With Direct Injection is cutting edge engineering

http://www.gmpowertrain.ca/Product/3.6%20VVT%20DI/LLT%20Summary.pdf

Yes, but its still a V6 and it sounds like a V6! I really think GM could have used the same Technology in a V8. I am a GM guy and i will always be a GM guy but both Ford and Chrysler continue to build V8 cars but GM seems to continue to eliminate them.

turnne
11-22-10, 11:05 AM
Awesome:worship::worship::worship::worship::worshi p:


But I think was a $$$ issue that likely put the brakes on that program


Warren

bbshriver
11-22-10, 11:35 AM
I've also read here that this means no more ACC. That option is now only available from Cadillac on the DTS.

Is that 'fully loaded' STS (1SC?) available with MRC, ZF Steering, JE5 brakes & Performance Cooling? Maybe since they have deigned to offer 18" wheels.

Those low mileage factory program 1SG's are looking better all the time.

I thought MRC was gone on the STS also? Just checked the Cadillac site and they do not show MRC being included standard or optional on any trim level.

I also find it interesting that the BASE price of the cheapest V6 is more expensive than the sticker price of my 2005 V8.


GM's 3.6-Liter VVT Engine With Direct Injection is cutting edge engineering

http://www.gmpowertrain.ca/Product/3.6%20VVT%20DI/LLT%20Summary.pdf

Too bad it's missing 2 cylinders.

Also, this would not be a good basis for a V8, due to the 60 degree V.


Yes, but its still a V6 and it sounds like a V6! I really think GM could have used the same Technology in a V8. I am a GM guy and i will always be a GM guy but both Ford and Chrysler continue to build V8 cars but GM seems to continue to eliminate them.
What Ford V8?
The TC is supposed to be dead after this year like the DTS. Other than that they have the Navigator, pickups/SUV, and Mustang. GM has an equivalent to all those on offer.

Slee_Stack
11-23-10, 11:01 AM
My STS is a V8. I couldn't care much less if it were a 4, 5, or 6. As long as the acceleration is there, and I can get the best fuel economy, that is what I want. And that is what MOST buyers want. So maybe the sound won't be as 'nice'. Or the rev won't be as low. But I really don't care. Mass market cars are for the masses. Modern 6 cylinders do the job better.

And the Northstar was originally supposed to be gone for the 2010 MY. So it already survived an extra year.

Don't be sad over the demise of inefficient engine designs.

bbshriver
11-23-10, 11:46 AM
My STS is a V8. I couldn't care much less if it were a 4, 5, or 6. As long as the acceleration is there, and I can get the best fuel economy, that is what I want. And that is what MOST buyers want. So maybe the sound won't be as 'nice'. Or the rev won't be as low. But I really don't care. Mass market cars are for the masses. Modern 6 cylinders do the job better.

And the Northstar was originally supposed to be gone for the 2010 MY. So it already survived an extra year.

Don't be sad over the demise of inefficient engine designs.

You may not care, but many do. I would not buy a Cadillac with less than 8 cylinders. It's part of the Cadillac history and heritage.
Cadillac is not a mass market car, it's a luxury car.

NONE of the other top tier luxury providers are completely abandoning V8 engines. Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus, HYUNDAI, Jaguar, even Volvo all offer V8.

As to V6 does the job better? In what world? A V6 is an inherently unbalanced engine, requiring various engineering trickery to get it to run smoothly, and even so, I've never been in any V6 that was as good as a good V8.

IIRC the V6 STS was/is only rated about 1mpg better than the V8, and neither are spectacular. I'll gladly give up 1mpg for the extra torque, refinement, and exhaust note of the V8.

EChas3
11-23-10, 11:02 PM
^^^^ Same only more-so!

turnne
11-24-10, 10:05 PM
You may not care, but many do. I would not buy a Cadillac with less than 8 cylinders. It's part of the Cadillac history and heritage.
Cadillac is not a mass market car, it's a luxury car.

NONE of the other top tier luxury providers are completely abandoning V8 engines. Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Lexus, HYUNDAI, Jaguar, even Volvo all offer V8.

As to V6 does the job better? In what world? A V6 is an inherently unbalanced engine, requiring various engineering trickery to get it to run smoothly, and even so, I've never been in any V6 that was as good as a good V8.

IIRC the V6 STS was/is only rated about 1mpg better than the V8, and neither are spectacular. I'll gladly give up 1mpg for the extra torque, refinement, and exhaust note of the V8.

Not a mass market car..LOL
The STS was a low volume model that had the majority of its volume done through leases

As for those who care....clearly they weren't buying them
Nor were they willing to snap up the used ones for any value based on the ever plummeting resale value of these cars

As for refinement...the Northstar is well behind the curve on refinement. It has been for at least 5-7 years

So..if a buyer wanted the most refined V8...he would have to have passed on the Northstar
There have been smoother, more powerful, more fuel efficient V8's on the road for many years
V6 vs V8 refinement has to be stated with specific models...I have most certainly driven a V6( or a straight 6) that was more refined than some V8's
Those two extra cylinders don't necessarily make it more refined

Look at the new new Infiniti 5.6...or even the Lexus V8...or quite frankly even the Hyundai V8...the lowest tech of all the V8 luxury cars but still ahead of the Northstar

The Northstar cars on the used marked are the least expensive though...and as I have said before well worth the used car values


Warren

Jesda
11-25-10, 06:52 AM
The days of a division-specific engine are over. The only DOHC V8 that Cadillac will ever see is one that could be used across all brands and divisions.

turnne
11-25-10, 08:53 AM
Sounds reasonable to me
Based on the financial situation of the company


Warren

ezstriper
11-25-10, 11:01 AM
I drove both the V6 & V8 STS and I bought the V6 and love it..now I love performance...been racing top sportsman up till this year...I just felt the the whole V6 package was awsome balance, performance, mileage, handling....but look for GM LS engines to make their way into more caddy's...nobody can knock their performance, mileage, reliability...

torogt
11-27-10, 10:40 AM
I drove both the V6 & V8 STS and I bought the V6 and love it..now I love performance...been racing top sportsman up till this year...I just felt the the whole V6 package was awsome balance, performance, mileage, handling....but look for GM LS engines to make their way into more caddy's...nobody can knock their performance, mileage, reliability...

Rumor has it that the GM LS engine will be replaced in the the near future with a over head cam V8 so I dont really see if its true that it will end up in any more Cadillac cars?

bbshriver
11-29-10, 09:38 AM
As for refinement...the Northstar is well behind the curve on refinement. It has been for at least 5-7 years

So..if a buyer wanted the most refined V8...he would have to have passed on the Northstar
There have been smoother, more powerful, more fuel efficient V8's on the road for many years
V6 vs V8 refinement has to be stated with specific models...I have most certainly driven a V6( or a straight 6) that was more refined than some V8's
Those two extra cylinders don't necessarily make it more refined

Look at the new new Infiniti 5.6...or even the Lexus V8...or quite frankly even the Hyundai V8...the lowest tech of all the V8 luxury cars but still ahead of the Northstar


Specifically I was referring to the Cadillac V8 versus Cadillac V6. In a battle where Cadillac is behind the curve in refinement, they gave up the more refined of the engines offered.

I've not driven a V6 from any make (granted, I've never driven an Mercedes V6) that is smoother than the Northstar, but I think we found in another thread that we consider different things to be smooth/refined.

Regarding the inline 6, inline 6's are about as smooth and refined as it gets, except for a V12, which takes the inherent balance of an inline 6 and improves on it.

More cylinders does not equal more smoothness... Certain configurations are inherently better. Typically any engine with a "bank" of odd number cylinders (V6, V10) will be less balanced than even banks (V8, V12). But an inline 6 can be, and often is, smoother and more balanced than a V8, just as an inline 4 can be smoother and more balanced than a V6.

97sts
11-30-10, 12:38 AM
Well, I have a 07 1SG RWD,ACC, Light Platinum w/cashmere- I have put on 10k miles since July this year and oil is showing 50% use and have not had to top off the oil-big change from the older N*. It is fun and it brings smiles when I reflect. Think I found a good one. Will update my Bio after I get some more participation- have been reading for years. This site is one of the best on the net.

For me the V8 is the way to go.

garland

550HP STSV
11-30-10, 05:34 PM
STS-V supercharged northstar for the win. thanks bye