: Are we ready for another "Personal Luxury" car?



Lord Cadillac
10-17-10, 03:28 AM
The Eldorado was Cadillac's last personal luxury coupe. I suppose the CTS is sort of the same thing. With cars getting smaller and smaller - is now a good time to change the way things work and create something entirely different? Maybe something that's not exactly comfortable for 4 or 5 passengers but more so for 1 or 2? Might now be a good time for a car that's really small to have all the luxuries of a car that would normally be intended for families?

Think about it. A personal luxury coupe that's small enough to only fit 2 people but have all the options of a full-size luxury car. Would that work? Or no?

Jesda
10-17-10, 03:56 AM
People want coupes because they're sporty. I love the Eldorado but never really understood why personal luxury cars existed, especially after luxury came to include the ability to seat seven people. Perhaps if I was around when it was trendy (mid 80s and earlier?) I'd understand.

Aron9000
10-17-10, 03:57 AM
Mercedes, Jaguar, Audi, Lexus, Acura, Infiniti, and BMW have been playing in that void that Lincoln and Cadillac created, then abandoned.

In the lower markets, we have the Accord Coupe, Altima Coupe, Toyota Solara in place of the Regal, Thunderbird, Cutlass Supreme, etc, etc, etc

Clearly there is a market for a "personal luxury" type coupe at all price points. Detroit has just had their head so far up their ass they can't figure out there is a market for a type of car they actually invented.

As for the CTS Coupe, I think its a very bold step in the right direction. Its a love/hate design, but it does get noticed, which is what the luxury coupe is all about.

Jesda
10-17-10, 04:05 AM
http://www.dragtimes.com/images/11546-2003-Mercedes-Benz-CL55-AMG.jpg

If only it was dependable.

hueterm
10-17-10, 09:10 AM
Damn skippy! Only make mine a W126 or W140, pleeze.....

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-17-10, 09:39 AM
I love personal luxury coupes, they're probably my favorite sort of luxury car. I really like how so many of them are large, but sized very "selfishly". By that I mean they've got long hoods, cabins that are tight for the size of the car, and a short trunk. They look HOT! Full sized personal luxury coupes to me, are designed for young, well to do bachelors or older married couples. Room for two comfortably with room for a few friends (or dates) when the occasion rises. But it's not a car that you'd typically cram full of people and go cruising around with like you would a full size luxury sedan or SUV.

I'm very annoyed to see that all the foreign manufacturers offer some sort of a personal luxury coupe, but the American brands, the ones that invented the genre and made them popular are just starting to get back into the game. The CTS Coupe is the only thing Cadillac makes like this, and it's not 100% true to the genre because it's a spinoff of an existing model, not an entirely new one like the Eldorado was in '67. Oh well though, what can ya do? Like Aron said, it's design will certainly get you noticed and create an opinion, and that'll hopefully spark sales and create the return of the Eldorado.

Lord Cadillac
10-17-10, 09:49 AM
I think most of us here are thinking about cars like the Eldorado and Coupe DeVille - which I LOVE. Love, love, love.. But what I'm really talking about here is a truly "personal" luxury coupe. Something small. Very small.. Think BMW 1-Series sized. But the car's main ambition wouldn't be for sporty driving. The inside of a 1-Series is the same as a 3-Series in the front. In the rear is where things get tight. If the 1-Series has the functionality of the 7-Series - that might make a very interesting car for someone who wants all the luxury amenities of a top-tier luxury sedan in a very small package. Right now, this doesn't exist.

drewsdeville
10-17-10, 11:50 AM
I agree with Sal, and he did a good job of explaining why I felt the '92+ Eldo's were too bloated. The previous gen ('86-'91) was right on target for being a personally luxury coupe like it was intended. It really nailed the size. It was just the wrong place at the wrong time with too many hiccups and styling issues with the '86-'87's. Just like today, Cadillac was only holding on to the extreme Cadillac traditionalists at the time and were failing at attracting new customers, and those traditionalists just wouldn't have such an abnormal Caddy.

While the '92-'02 Eldo's were 2 door coupes, they were hardly personally luxury cars as classified by many.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-17-10, 11:57 AM
I'm interested to hear why you think they weren't personal luxury cars.

drewsdeville
10-17-10, 12:17 PM
I'm interested to hear why you think they weren't personal luxury cars.

The point of a personal luxury car is that it focuses on pleasing the driver before anything else, hence the term "personal". Practicality is an afterthought, if considered at all.

It's a fact that the '92+ grew in size...a lot. They were whales in comparison to the previous. Where did the extra size go? Mostly extra cargo space and extra passenger interior space. Neither where changes made to improve the drivers experience.

Is this a bad thing? No. Because of the extra space, the '92+'s were far more practical as a daily driver. But the size increase was an attempt to accomodate in other areas outside of the drivers experience, eliminating it as a personal luxury coupe in my opinion.

Sal's post does a good job of explaining what the personal luxury car should be.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-17-10, 01:10 PM
Ahhh, gotcha. Do you feel the same about the Mark VIII?

hueterm
10-17-10, 01:17 PM
I understand the type of vehicle that Sal is describing in a no-compromises small car, and if Cadillac wants to make a 1 or 3 fighter, fine -- the more models and money the better -- but it's not a traditional personal luxury car.

60s T-Bird, Continental Marks, Toronado, Riviera, Eldorado, Jaguar XJS, 6/8, S Class coupe -- those are personal luxury cars. Personal luxury does NOT equal compact car, even in today's F-ed up green licking design aesthetic that prays at the altar of the Infiniti G (which, unfortunately is the CTS coupe...).

And to say that the '92+ Eldorado is bloated is insane: the back seat is essentially unusable, the trunk is adequate for two people and their luggage, but not much more... Granted, it's bigger than the previous gen (which in ETC form is cool), but at least it's proportioned normally.

orconn
10-17-10, 02:41 PM
I understand the type of vehicle that Sal is describing in a no-compromises small car, and if Cadillac wants to make a 1 or 3 fighter, fine -- the more models and money the better -- but it's not a traditional personal luxury car.

60s T-Bird, Continental Marks, Toronado, Riviera, Eldorado, Jaguar XJS, 6/8, S Class coupe -- those are personal luxury cars. Personal luxury does NOT equal compact car, even in today's F-ed up green licking design aesthetic that prays at the altar of the Infiniti G (which, unfortunately is the CTS coupe...).

And to say that the '92+ Eldorado is bloated is insane: the back seat is essentially unusable, the trunk is adequate for two people and their luggage, but not much more... Granted, it's bigger than the previous gen (which in ETC form is cool), but at least it's proportioned normally.

I agree completely with Hueterm on this one. What Sal is describing is really a type of car, known in the European parlance as a "Grand Tourismo," a small two seater coupe based on a high performance sportscar (a high performance two seat open car) but fitted out with all the luxury features of a luxury sedan. Cars like the Aston Martin DB 4, the Ferrari 330 GTC, the Lamborghini 350 GT and Jaguar E-type coupe. These cars were the ultimate in stylish, performace transportation for two back in the 1950 through the early seventies. But faded from popularity as the "exotics," with their mid-engine designs by these manufacturers took center stage. Aston, Lamborghini and Ferrari (400 GTC) still made these cars, but the American auto press was besotted with the mid-engined "exotics" and gave very lttle press to the GTs. By the 1980's true GT automobiles had all but died out. While I love this type of car (having owned for long periods of time both a Lamborghini 350 GT and a Jaguar E-type coupe) I can say that they are only somewhat practical for young umarried men (the vast majority of whom can'y afford them), rich married men who can afford both the car and a beautiful mistress and nostalgic old guys who can now afford to collect them!

Cadillac produced, although in open form, such a car with the XLR and to a lesser degree the Allante. Chrysler also had their Maserati built two seat convertible. Both these cars were not successes in the marketplace, among any of three previously mentioned groups. Rich Americans preferred their "exotics" to real GTs to fill that spot in their garage.

I believe Cadillac would benefit from the return of a "personal luxury coupe" but it would have to be a four seater and a size comfortable for transporting four passengers to business lunches or to the country club. Two seaters are just not suited to an American wealthy lifestyle, unless they are really just conversation pieces for the very rich to talk about and drive only occasionally (which is why you see these cars so ften in the used market with so low accumulated miles). So I would have to say that it would be unwise for Cadillac to produce what Sal calls a two seat "personal luxury coupe."

ThumperPup
10-17-10, 03:52 PM
id have to say my personaly favorit Lux coupe would be the Mercedes CL
atleast this is my favorit that are still being made

my favorit Lux coupe ever made in my time of living would be the Lincoln Mark VIII

Next to that would be the Eldorado never owned one but have wanted to i actualy was thinking about getting one after i got ride of my Last Mark VIII but then i decided to go off into SUV land and i hated that switch so then whent to the Seville

Jesda
10-17-10, 04:38 PM
The point of a personal luxury car is that it focuses on pleasing the driver before anything else, hence the term "personal". Practicality is an afterthought, if considered at all.

It's a fact that the '92+ grew in size...a lot. They were whales in comparison to the previous. Where did the extra size go? Mostly extra cargo space and extra passenger interior space. Neither where changes made to improve the drivers experience.

Personal luxury cars are typically big. The 92+ Eldorado and 93+ Mark VIII fit the definition pretty well. Your car, being smaller, did not fit the definition as well as the 92-02 Eldorado did.

Having not lived in the era of the personal luxury car, it seems the idea of personal luxury was to have more than you needed, and a personal luxury car was about using all of that excess to please only the driver.

The BMW 1-series is a sporty coupe, but its not a personal luxury car. It seems like there's a clear definition:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Personal_luxury_car


Personal luxury cars are characteristically two-door coupés or convertibles with two-passenger or 2+2 seating. They are distinguished on the performance end from GT and sports cars by their greater emphasis on comfort and convenience; on the luxury end, by appointments, features, and style over actual vehicle performance. With great variability within the market, however, this is not absolute but a general trend.


The personal luxury car market segment in the United States was largely defined by the Ford Thunderbird. Joining the Chevrolet Corvette in 1955 as America's only other two-seater, the original "T-bird" was a softly sprung, reasonably powerful auto for its day, available as both a convertible and an open car with removable hardtop. Too large, slow handling, and luxurious to be a sports car, yet lacking the high-performance of a GT, Ford instead coined a new term for the industry to market it, a "personal car."

The Mercedes CL is the closest car in current production that falls under this description.



So you can have a car that's "personal" and "luxury" but it seems "personal luxury" describes a certain kind of automobile. Its the same way you can have a convertible, but not every convertible is a roadster.


The personal luxury car as we knew it seems to be mostly gone, but I'd be interested in seeing a luxury GT from Cadillac.

Playdrv4me
10-17-10, 05:20 PM
I agree completely with Hueterm on this one. What Sal is describing is really a type of car, known in the European parlance as a "Grand Tourismo," a small two seater coupe based on a high performance sportscar (a high performance two seat open car) but fitted out with all the luxury features of a luxury sedan. Cars like the Aston Martin DB 4, the Ferrari 330 GTC, the Lamborghini 350 GT and Jaguar E-type coupe. These cars were the ultimate in stylish, performace transportation for two back in the 1950 through the early seventies. But faded from popularity as the "exotics," with their mid-engine designs by these manufacturers took center stage. Aston, Lamborghini and Ferrari (400 GTC) still made these cars, but the American auto press was besotted with the mid-engined "exotics" and gave very lttle press to the GTs. By the 1980's true GT automobiles had all but died out. While I love this type of car (having owned for long periods of time both a Lamborghini 350 GT and a Jaguar E-type coupe) I can say that they are only somewhat practical for young umarried men (the vast majority of whom can'y afford them), rich married men who can afford both the car and a beautiful mistress and nostalgic old guys who can now afford to collect them!

Cadillac produced, although in open form, such a car with the XLR and to a lesser degree the Allante. Chrysler also had their Maserati built two seat convertible. Both these cars were not successes in the marketplace, among any of three previously mentioned groups. Rich Americans preferred their "exotics" to real GTs to fill that spot in their garage.

I believe Cadillac would benefit from the return of a "personal luxury coupe" but it would have to be a four seater and a size comfortable for transporting four passengers to business lunches or to the country club. Two seaters are just not suited to an American wealthy lifestyle, unless they are really just conversation pieces for the very rich to talk about and drive only occasionally (which is why you see these cars so ften in the used market with so low accumulated miles). So I would have to say that it would be unwise for Cadillac to produce what Sal calls a two seat "personal luxury coupe."

I believe the Ferrari California is a modern interpretation of the "GT".

http://www.tuningnews.net/news/090617/edo-ferrari-california.jpg

hueterm
10-17-10, 05:34 PM
The 86-91 Eldo fit it too, by heredity if nothing else. It was just an unfortunate design choice, brought about by the times...kind of like today...

Lord Cadillac
10-17-10, 05:50 PM
If you're the type of person who wants a very small car but doesn't want to sacrifice the options available in larger cars - than you're a candidate for a true personal luxury car. I'm not saying it should be a two seater. And it should be equally comfortable for a front seat passenger. However, rear seats space would be an afterthought. The rear seating in the 1-Series is what I'm talking about. Two full-size adults should fit comfortably in the front - while the back CAN carry two adults - but children would be a much better fit.

This car would have the softest leather covering plush seats, have soft surface all over the interior and offer the amenities available in the more expensive offerings in the lineup. Heated and cooled / massaging seats, bluetooth, satellite radio, navigation, etc, etc, etc...It would basically be a luxury car for someone who doesn't want or need a large or midsize car. Right now, I'm not sure a car like this exists - but I think now would be the right time for it.

The BMW 1-Series and everything else out there like it is small - but not luxurious. I don't think the only people who want a small car need it to be sporty.

I recently saw a very, very old lady driving a Lexus SC430. I can only imagine she wanted something small but luxurious at the same time. While the SC probably fit the bill - it could have more options. Throw a few of the features found in the LS460 - and you have a perfect personal luxury car. However, a little larger would really be best - 1-Series sized - especially for the back seats.

Fleet
10-17-10, 06:08 PM
Another (Cadillac) personal luxury coupe? Maybe, but only if it looks similar to this:
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/i52.tinypic.com/2hcoidx.jpghttp://i52.tinypic.com/2hcoidx.jpg

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-17-10, 07:09 PM
The main difference IMO between a true personal luxury car and a gran turismo coupe is the gran turismo cars have a stronger emphasis on performance and the personal luxury cars push the luxury level harder.

We don't really have a "true" personal luxury car anymore, but lots of GT Cars.

Jesda
10-17-10, 07:24 PM
The 1-series isn't very "personal luxury" at all. Even front seat passengers get tight quarters. Weight and handling were primary design considerations. I think today's 3-series coupe fits the description better.

ted tcb
10-17-10, 07:31 PM
Orconn pretty much sums it up.
Personal Luxury cars were big, luxurious, powerful two door cars with long hoods, short decks, and big motors.
They were politically incorrect, and tons of fun to own.
The heyday were the seventies, with Cutlass', Cordobas, Monte Carlos, Grand Prixs, T Birds, etc.

In the eighties, I gravitated towards what Sal is calling for ... two seat, small Grand Touring cars.
I owned many Preludes, a couple of 280/300 ZX's, and almost bought a Supra.
They were light, had smaller displacement motors, manual trannys, and had a certain amount of luxury.
As I got older, I preferred the smoothness of a Lincoln LSC, and actually traded my Prelude for the LSC.

The car magazines claim this market segment was killed off as single guys got married, had kids, and
gravitated towards SUV's in the nineties.
Honda, Nissan, and Mazda all killed off their GT's in the nineties.

I kind of see the new Camaro, Mustang, and Challenger as the successor to those old luxury coupes
from the seventies.

Lord Cadillac
10-17-10, 07:42 PM
I haven't checked the specifications but on "feel" alone, I thought the 1-Series and 3-Series were the same for front passengers. It felt like the only real difference was in the back seat. The 1-Series looks funny to me because it seems to be a squished version of the 3-Series.


The 1-series isn't very "personal luxury" at all. Even front seat passengers get tight quarters. Weight and handling were primary design considerations. I think today's 3-series coupe fits the description better.

orconn
10-17-10, 07:54 PM
If you're the type of person who wants a very small car but doesn't want to sacrifice the options available in larger cars - than you're a candidate for a true personal luxury car. I'm not saying it should be a two seater. And it should be equally comfortable for a front seat passenger. However, rear seats space would be an afterthought. The rear seating in the 1-Series is what I'm talking about. Two full-size adults should fit comfortably in the front - while the back CAN carry two adults - but children would be a much better fit.

This car would have the softest leather covering plush seats, have soft surface all over the interior and offer the amenities available in the more expensive offerings in the lineup. Heated and cooled / massaging seats, bluetooth, satellite radio, navigation, etc, etc, etc...It would basically be a luxury car for someone who doesn't want or need a large or midsize car. Right now, I'm not sure a car like this exists - but I think now would be the right time for it.

The BMW 1-Series and everything else out there like it is small - but not luxurious. I don't think the only people who want a small car need it to be sporty.

I recently saw a very, very old lady driving a Lexus SC430. I can only imagine she wanted something small but luxurious at the same time. While the SC probably fit the bill - it could have more options. Throw a few of the features found in the LS460 - and you have a perfect personal luxury car. However, a little larger would really be best - 1-Series sized - especially for the back seats.

I think Alfa Romeo may have just the car for you! Let's hope they return to the U.S. soon.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-17-10, 08:27 PM
I haven't checked the specifications but on "feel" alone, I thought the 1-Series and 3-Series were the same for front passengers. It felt like the only real difference was in the back seat. The 1-Series looks funny to me because it seems to be a squished version of the 3-Series.

Nooo, the 3 Series is much bigger up front, there's much more shoulder and headroom.


The 1-series isn't very "personal luxury" at all. Even front seat passengers get tight quarters. Weight and handling were primary design considerations. I think today's 3-series coupe fits the description better.

Eh, kinda but the only true "personal luxury" car that BMW offers is the 650i, but even that is more gran turismo than personal luxury. BMW's best "personal luxury" car was the 8 Series, as it was much larger, more expensive than the 6 series, and it offered only V8s and V12s

Lord Cadillac
10-17-10, 09:23 PM
I think Alfa Romeo may have just the car for you! Let's hope they return to the U.S. soon.

I'm looking for a full-size premium luxury sedan for my next car.

Thanks, Chad. I didn't realize that about the 1/3...

hueterm
10-17-10, 09:29 PM
You're so getting an Equus...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-17-10, 09:46 PM
Another thing that seperates a true personal luxury car from the other luxury coupes:

True personal luxury cars don't have a direct sedan knockoff. For example, there wasn't a two door and four door Eldorado, or Riviera, or Mark III, etc etc, but you can buy a 3 Series coupe or sedan, etc etc.

Jesda
10-17-10, 09:52 PM
Eh, kinda but the only true "personal luxury" car that BMW offers is the 650i, but even that is more gran turismo than personal luxury. BMW's best "personal luxury" car was the 8 Series, as it was much larger, more expensive than the 6 series, and it offered only V8s and V12s

Like the bad decisions made during a night of heavy drinking, I try to pretend the modern 6-series never happened. :D

I really miss when more cars were available as coupes. One of my all-time favorites:
http://www.legend.org/gallery/european_legends/europe_2nd_coupe-5.jpg
There was a time when I, for some foolish reason, disliked the Legend coupe. Now its one of my top cars of the 90s.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-17-10, 09:56 PM
I really miss the Coupe deVille.

77CDV
10-17-10, 11:30 PM
From what I'm reading, you all seem to want the XLR back. A two-seat convertible coupe with all the amenities of a luxury sedan but no sedan counterpart. As I recall, the XLR didn't set the world on fire. A car in the 1- and 3-Series size class is, IMO, too small to be a personal luxury coupe. A true personal luxury coupe should be about 7/8th the size of the make's standard sedan, either two-place or 2+2, featuring all the make's best features as standard and even a few features not available on other models, and the most powerful engine the make provides. It should not have a sedan counterpart, and it should have exclusive styling that still relates to and ties in with the existing standard line.

Much as I, too, love the CDV, it's not a personal luxury car. It's just a two-door version of the standard six-passenger car. More stylish than the four-door sedan, but still a two-door sedan.

Lord Cadillac
10-18-10, 12:34 PM
I liked the Acura Legend as well...


You're so getting an Equus...

It's definitely on my list.. But there are a lot of nice cars out there - so I don't know what I'm going to end up in. If the XTS managed to somehow get a strong V8, it'll also be on my list.. Even if the DTS got a boost in power and a fix for that horrible steering radius, IT would be on my list...

Sandy
10-18-10, 07:37 PM
I had one "Personal Luxury Coupe" - a 1975 Imperial LeBaron Crown St. Regis Coupe. I had it a long time, as I was madly in love with it, and it never had any problems. It seem to thrive on the knowledge that I loved it ! Bought it new, kept it for 11 years. When sold, it had just 42,500 miles, and was flawless.

It looked identical to this Corporate photo:

http://m43.narod.ru/us_cars/chrysler_corp/chrysler/chrysler_newyorker_coupe_77_01.JPG

Fleet
10-18-10, 09:50 PM
I had one "Personal Luxury Coupe" - a 1975 Imperial LeBaron Crown St. Regis Coupe. I had it a long time, as I was madly in love with it, and it never had any problems. It seem to thrive on the knowledge that I loved it ! Bought it new, kept it for 11 years. When sold, it had just 42,500 miles, and was flawless.

It looked identical to this Corporate photo:

http://m43.narod.ru/us_cars/chrysler_corp/chrysler/chrysler_newyorker_coupe_77_01.JPG
Those mid-'70s Imperials were nice. A big car with room and comfort to match.

Lord Cadillac
10-18-10, 10:17 PM
I think today's personal luxury coupe is a lot different than it used to be. Many years ago, when cars were big, they were just big cars with two doors. Nowadays, they're actually more "personal" - without a whole lot of room for more than two adults and two children.

Jesda
10-18-10, 10:26 PM
They dont call them personal luxury coupes anymore. It seems that a PLC is a specific type of car, usually American.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-18-10, 11:33 PM
Personal luxury car to me:

> Full sized car- needs to be big, but smaller than the biggest sedan/coupe offered by the company.
> Long hood/short deck profile.
> It's own, seperate model line. Not a Coupe deVille or Continental Coupe, but rather the Eldorado, Mark III/IV/V.
> Sportier than the other offerings in the model range, but not a sports car/GT- Think about the 1970 Monte Carlo v. a 1970 Camaro/Corvette.
> The car must be masculine, but not aimed at young kids, but rather older, gentlemen with money (again, Monte Carlo v. Camaro)
> Big, powerful V-8, atleast in proportion to it's time.
> Formal, squared off roofline.
> Designed mainly for comfort of driver and front passenger, but it should have a decent amount of rear seat room for when you've got to cart others around. Nothing too cramped where it's unpleasant, but something with enough room to be comfy, but not to encourage rear seat riders.

orconn
10-19-10, 12:08 AM
Personal luxury car to me:

> Full sized car- needs to be big, but smaller than the biggest sedan/coupe offered by the company.
> Long hood/short deck profile.
> It's own, seperate model line. Not a Coupe deVille or Continental Coupe, but rather the Eldorado, Mark III/IV/V.
> Sportier than the other offerings in the model range, but not a sports car/GT- Think about the 1970 Monte Carlo v. a 1970 Camaro/Corvette.
> The car must be masculine, but not aimed at young kids, but rather older, gentlemen with money (again, Monte Carlo v. Camaro)
> Big, powerful V-8, atleast in proportion to it's time.
> Formal, squared off roofline.
> Designed mainly for comfort of driver and front passenger, but it should have a decent amount of rear seat room for when you've got to cart others around. Nothing too cramped where it's unpleasant, but something with enough room to be comfy, but not to encourage rear seat riders.

And no Imperial coupes, or Coupe de Villes, or Lincoln Town Coupes. As far as Chrysler products go only the Cordoba or '81 Imperial (maybe in a stretch the Dodge 75-79 Charger) could be considered "personal luxury coupes."

V-Eight
10-19-10, 12:11 AM
The XLR was an underpowered, unreliable, and over priced Corvette. It looked great, but that was about it.

orconn
10-19-10, 12:17 AM
The XLR was an underpowered, unreliable, and over priced Corvette. It looked great, but that was about it.

You are speaking from personal experience with one, obviously!

Lord Cadillac
10-19-10, 12:32 AM
It's too bad GM can't allow a Cadillac to be as fast or faster than a Chevy Corvette. The XLR DID look great but it had a Fisher Price interior and was under-powered.


The XLR was an underpowered, unreliable, and over priced Corvette. It looked great, but that was about it.

Playdrv4me
10-19-10, 12:47 AM
XLR-V is a bargain on the second-hand market and has just the right amount of power.

Jesda
10-19-10, 01:08 AM
The XLR is the greatest thing ever created in all of humanity.

I'm standing by that statement and I will defend it with my life. :D

Lord Cadillac
10-19-10, 01:45 AM
Is it faster than a stock 335i?


XLR-V is a bargain on the second-hand market and has just the right amount of power.

Stingroo
10-19-10, 01:59 AM
443hp, I would think so.

Playdrv4me
10-19-10, 02:15 AM
Is it faster than a stock 335i?

0-60 times certainly aren't everything, but the XLR-V does it in the mid 4s while a stock 335i realistically hits it right at 5 or just under. That's certainly quicker than I could possibly need, or use, in a grand touring type luxury coupe.

As far as Cadillacs go... The XLR-V and STS-V are probably the last modern Cadillac cars I'd ever consider owning.

hueterm
10-19-10, 08:50 AM
'08 or '09 CPO STS-V -- Summer 2012, baby...Probably 30 grand by that point...

Lord Cadillac
10-19-10, 11:54 AM
The XLR is surely a lot heavier because good drivers are getting to 60 in 4.7 seconds with the XLR-V and 4.8 seconds with the 335i.


443hp, I would think so.


0-60 times certainly aren't everything, but the XLR-V does it in the mid 4s while a stock 335i realistically hits it right at 5 or just under. That's certainly quicker than I could possibly need, or use, in a grand touring type luxury coupe.

As far as Cadillacs go... The XLR-V and STS-V are probably the last modern Cadillac cars I'd ever consider owning.

Aron9000
10-19-10, 01:37 PM
The XLR-V is faster outright in the quarter mile. I did some quick checking, they run around a 12.9-13.0@108-110mph stock. The 335i stock runs around a 13.3-13.5@103-104mph.

Granted since both are forced induction, you can make all kinds of silly power with minimal mods on either car. I know for a fact that the BMW is a simple tune away from 100 extra hp and mid 12 second quarter mile times.

Lord Cadillac
10-19-10, 01:43 PM
That sounds about right. The quarter mile is where the XLR-V really stands out compared to the 335i. But you're right about the tune for the BMW. For a couple of hundred dollars and about 2 minutes under the hood, you're in the high 12s. For a better tune that costs a couple hundred more, you're closer to that mid 12 second range. Pretty amazing, really - that for about $500.00 and 30 minutes of work, you're faster than an M3.


The XLR-V is faster outright in the quarter mile. I did some quick checking, they run around a 12.9-13.0@108-110mph stock. The 335i stock runs around a 13.3-13.5@103-104mph.

Granted since both are forced induction, you can make all kinds of silly power with minimal mods on either car. I know for a fact that the BMW is a simple tune away from 100 extra hp and mid 12 second quarter mile times.

Lord Cadillac
10-19-10, 01:51 PM
I just went looking at some XLR-Vs on eBay and I'd love to own one. But again, I have nowhere to drive it. Every other car in Palm Beach County is driven by a police officer and you can't do anything out of the ordinary without getting pulled over for aggressive driving...

Aron9000
10-19-10, 01:53 PM
I just went looking at some XLR-Vs on eBay and I'd love to own one. But again, I have nowhere to drive it. Every other car in Palm Beach County is driven by a police officer and you can't do anything out of the ordinary without getting pulled over for aggressive driving...

You can just buy a regular XLR and save some $$$$. It moves decently, but its not quite as tempting to mash it like it would be with the supercharged V.

Lord Cadillac
10-20-10, 01:19 PM
Well, if I'm going to have a car that's not fast, than it must ultimately be very luxurious...


You can just buy a regular XLR and save some $$$$. It moves decently, but its not quite as tempting to mash it like it would be with the supercharged V.

Jesda
10-20-10, 04:48 PM
Beauty and heritage often have more to do with luxury than function. I think what you may be looking for isn't top-level luxury, but instead high comfort, driving pleasure, and value. Hyundai can't be beat.

Busasamurai
10-20-10, 04:54 PM
Wish Buick would redo a Reatta for old times sake ...Love that car ....

drewsdeville
10-20-10, 05:00 PM
I think what you may be looking for isn't top-level luxury, but instead high comfort, driving pleasure, and value. Hyundai can't be beat.

Well said.

Lord Cadillac
10-20-10, 08:02 PM
Heritage is off the scale on my concerns. It's below zero along with "soul". They mean nothing to me. To me, it's sort of like the way I feel about the Yankees. I'm a Yankees fan. They can win every game they play from now until kingdom come - and go 162-0 for the rest of my living years, winning every playoff game and every world series game. It would do less than nothing for "me". That's the only way I can think of how to explain what "heritage" and "soul" means to me in a car. A car is a piece of machinery that I sit in, drive and get from place to place. I just like to do it in style and comfort.


Beauty and heritage often have more to do with luxury than function. I think what you may be looking for isn't top-level luxury, but instead high comfort, driving pleasure, and value. Hyundai can't be beat.

orconn
10-20-10, 08:38 PM
Heritage is off the scale on my concerns. It's below zero along with "soul". They mean nothing to me. To me, it's sort of like the way I feel about the Yankees. I'm a Yankees fan. They can win every game they play from now until kingdom come - and go 162-0 for the rest of my living years, winning every playoff game and every world series game. It would do less than nothing for "me". That's the only way I can think of how to explain what "heritage" and "soul" means to me in a car. A car is a piece of machinery that I sit in, drive and get from place to place. I just like to do it in style and comfort.

Sounds like Hyundai has its' first buyer! I hope it turns out as well as you expect!

Jesda
10-20-10, 09:08 PM
I'm a Yankees fan.

Friendship revoked. :D

Lord Cadillac
10-20-10, 09:30 PM
Sounds like Hyundai has its' first buyer! I hope it turns out as well as you expect!

Nothing is ever set in stone with me according to automobiles. I'm always changing my mind.


Friendship revoked. :D

What's your team?

Jesda
10-20-10, 09:51 PM
http://images.pictureshunt.com/pics/s/st_louis_cardinals_logo-9633.gif

I'm not heavily into sports but I do enjoy baseball. I tend to dislike anything NYC-oriented though. :P

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-20-10, 09:57 PM
Sal's from New York/New Jersey (I forget which one), so of COURSE he's a Yankees fan. :)

Jesda
10-20-10, 11:21 PM
There's always the Mets!

LOL, thread derailed...


DTS and Genesis V8 are on the top of my list for used luxury bargains 5 years from now.