: Is Lincoln really making progress in becoming a "Luxury" car?



orconn
10-15-10, 08:52 PM
I hear the comment, every once in a while, that Lincoln is starting to make a move in becoming a luxury brand again? Is this true or is the brand just fooling itself?

Stingroo
10-15-10, 08:57 PM
The second one.

hueterm
10-15-10, 09:09 PM
+100000000000000

ThumperPup
10-15-10, 09:18 PM
lincolln wont be a luxury car again untill they stop building cars that look like fords

to become a lux car again lincoln needs to bring back the Mark Coupe bodys
or the Continental

Town car is a joke i think
never made it to the FWD whyll all the others where way ahead it was only good for limos i think

Sandy
10-15-10, 09:21 PM
I have no memory when Lincoln was not a Luxury car. It has always been such.

Chrysler is the one without a luxury car. Imperial(s) last year was 1993.
I don't know why CryCo does not field a lxury car, any longer.

EChas3
10-15-10, 09:28 PM
Buicks are better. Lincolns compare to Oldsmobiles.

drewsdeville
10-15-10, 09:41 PM
It would have been more interesting if this question was asked differently to avoid all of the unsupported yes/no answers.

For example, since the majority say no:

For what reasons is Lincoln not making progress in becoming a "Luxury" car?

billc83
10-15-10, 09:53 PM
Lincoln isn't making progress in the luxury segment for the same reasons that Cadillac is only getting a slightly better foothold in the same segment. Their corporate overlords aren't really serious about tackling the competition.

Without a proper flagship, Cadillac and Lincoln can only hope to be Second Tier in the luxury game.

What makes it even more frustrating is GM and Ford both taunt us with flagships within the last decade - the Cadillac Sixteen and 2002 Lincoln Continential concepts.

Playdrv4me
10-15-10, 11:10 PM
A big part of Lincoln's problem is that the entire product line is still nothing more than rebadged Fords. Not just reUSED engines and platforms, but nearly literal copies of the Ford versions (really only acceptable on the Navigator and TC, NOT on the modern platforms). Quality has improved dramatically, and the cars ARE good, but when you re-design the Ford Edge BEFORE the Lincoln MKX and then just rename "MyFord Touch to MyLincoln Touch" and add a few LEDs at the tail end... people can obviously see right through that.

hueterm
10-15-10, 11:19 PM
V6 only, not enough difference in their badge engineering. Might as well be an Acura...

Jesda
10-15-10, 11:21 PM
Well, since Lincoln will be taking over where Mercury left off, Ford doesn't have to aim as high.

Ironically, their current slogan is still "Reach Higher". The MKX and Edge got favorable reviews in this month's Automobile Magazine.

Lord Cadillac
10-16-10, 01:10 PM
This is Lincoln's last chance at being a viable luxury brand. As it stands, Lincoln is no longer a "luxury" make. They're "near luxury". If Hyundai is "near luxury" - than what is Lincoln without an answer to the Genesis or Equus?

Ford's ecoboost engine is helping even though there's no V8. As will GMs twin turbo 3.0.. But big luxury cars need a V8 for more than just power. NVH is very important to luxury car buyers. And not having a V8 as at least an option is a big mistake - especially when all your competitors (except for Acura - and how good are THEY doing?) have one... Oh - and Cadillac won't have a V8 soon either... Let's see how Cadillac does in the future...

orconn
10-16-10, 01:42 PM
It seems to me that true "luxury" class, given all the goodies and quality delivered in the "near luxury" class the differentiatian has really come down to exclusivity made real by the price tag!

Lord Cadillac
10-16-10, 02:32 PM
It seems to me that true "luxury" class, given all the goodies and quality delivered in the "near luxury" class the differentiatian has really come down to exclusivity made real by the price tag!

Like Cadillac, I think Lincoln has most of the luxuries. Now they just need the all-around performance. And a true full-size premium luxury sedan.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-16-10, 02:45 PM
Lincoln has all of the cool gadgets, but they're not applying them in any cars that are truly a basis for a world class luxury sedan. Like was stated before, they're all rebadged Fords that run FWD and V-6 engines. Granted, the Ecoboost is a cool setup and it makes great power numbers, but none of the cars really stand out in any terms of performance or design. I'd say that right now that Lincoln is the American version of Acura.....smaller, fwd, small-engined "near luxury" cars.

Lord Cadillac
10-16-10, 04:35 PM
Lincoln is the American version of Acura - and Cadillac is about to become the same thing. Why is it that Lincoln and Cadillac have to follow one another all the time. With the exception of the V-Series, everything else is practically the same. No real flagship. No cars with V8s. Nothing to do battle with small luxury competitors. And no real good plans on becoming relevant in the foreseeable future. If they keep following one another into irrelevancy, they're both going to cease to exist within the next 10-20 years.

Sandy
10-16-10, 04:43 PM
I think that alot of the LUXURY element, the f"feel" is not really the car. All of the Luxury BRANDS, mentioned in this thread, as well as the one below, dealing with Cadillac, and youcan add in Chrysler 300SRT-8 for completeness, only only obtain true luxury by what the corporation and their dealers do, AFTER the sale.Our son bought a new Lexus very recently. He paid a ig profit for the car. No $300 over incoice stuff. Don't know what the profit was - but it was over $650.00 (over invoice) Perhaps even more. First oil change & filter was FREE. Since then he was back for a couple of small adjustments. They washed the car for him and they have a "snack room" really furnished woth goodies and tea, coffee, 4 or 5 kinds of soda and alot of snacks. All free. When his car was done the service manager came out to tell us what was found and wha was done. Furthermore they gave him a coupon for the same service next time for 1/2 price.
They don't play the games that most domestic dealers (especially the hi-way whores) do. They give you a price, and of course the buyer thinks it's "too much" and they chop off perhaps $175.00 and THT IS IT. You don't purchase, it's curtsins and the salesman stands & thank you for coming in. It's like if they do not make $1,500 or so they do not want you business.
But, when you come in with a problem, they fall all over you to help, to fix, to replace, to explain, to treat you to munchies, and to thank you for allowing them to help you!!! You cannot do that and sell a $30,000 car, and make $150.00 doing so. Now then.....I love my Lincoln Town Car waaaay more than his NEW Lexus, and I would not trade my Town Car for his Lexus! My TC has more gadjets, smoother ride, is roomier, and has a bigger trunk, more comfortible seats, and omitting the navagation thingiee, my TC has many more usable features.

drewsdeville
10-16-10, 04:46 PM
Lincoln is the American version of Acura - and Cadillac is about to become the same thing. Why is it that Lincoln and Cadillac have to follow one another all the time. With the exception of the V-Series, everything else is practically the same. No real flagship. No cars with V8s. Nothing to do battle with small luxury competitors. And no real good plans on becoming relevant in the foreseeable future. If they keep following one another into irrelevancy, they're both going to cease to exist within the next 10-20 years.

And the world will continue to turn.

I agree with most of this. However, I feel that if they can't learn, then they brought their death onto themselves. I don't support stupidity. There's a consequence for everything. I'd rather see them die then to go through another bankruptcy fiasco like we're having now. At least we can move on instead of having the government baby a company that's destined to die because it can't do it's homework.

Call me unpatriotic or whatever you will, but I don't care to be brand loyal whether it's American or not. Just like in the V6 vs V8 thread, I'm in the market for a good product, not a particular name. So frankly, it really wouldn't break my heart if the nameplate disappeared IF it was deserved. I drive whatever I like to drive, regardless of brand. If I like a car and it happens to have a Acura, BMW or a Geo badge on it, then so be it.

Jesda
10-16-10, 04:52 PM
Interesting observation Sandy, and I've noticed the same myself. But, I've also encountered old Lincoln dealers that aren't really willing to deal. They seem to prefer the older customer who comes in and pays near sticker.

Lord Cadillac
10-16-10, 05:24 PM
I love my Lincoln Town Car waaaay more than his NEW Lexus, and I would not trade my Town Car for his Lexus! My TC has more gadjets, smoother ride, is roomier, and has a bigger trunk, more comfortible seats, and omitting the navagation thingiee, my TC has many more usable features.

What Lexus did he buy? If it's the ES, than I like the Town Car better as well. The ES is Lexus' entry-level luxury sedan. The Town Car is Lincoln's best effort. I'd expect one to appreciate the Town Car better. And I assume we're talking about the ES here because there's nothing the Town Car offers that's not done better in the LS other than size. Which is one main reason the Town car is going away.


And the world will continue to turn.

I agree with most of this. However, I feel that if they can't learn, then they brought their death onto themselves. I don't support stupidity. There's a consequence for everything. I'd rather see them die then to go through another bankruptcy fiasco like we're having now. At least we can move on instead of having the government baby a company that's destined to die because it can't do it's homework.

Call me unpatriotic or whatever you will, but I don't care to be brand loyal whether it's American or not. Just like in the V6 vs V8 thread, I'm in the market for a good product, not a particular name. So frankly, it really wouldn't break my heart if the nameplate disappeared IF it was deserved. I drive whatever I like to drive, regardless of brand. If I like a car and it happens to have a Acura, BMW or a Geo badge on it, then so be it.

I hear ya.. And I agree. While I am a Cadillac enthusiast first and foremost, I appreciate all brands. And I purchase what makes the most sense for me. When I buy an automobile, I don't think about who's children I'm putting through college - nor do I care. That's not my concern. If I have kids, nobody's going to care who's putting my kids through college. I buy the vehicle that suits me best and the brand/badge means nothing to me. That's not saying I don't HOPE Cadillac one day makes a car that I "must have". It doesn't need to be an S550 or a 750i - it just needs to be somewhere in the same ballpark. An Equus would suit me just fine. An Equus with a Cadillac badge would make me proud to drive a Cadillac.

Regarding the survival of Cadillac - I understand where you're coming from there as well. I wonder what things might be like if GM sold Cadillac to another company.

ThumperPup
10-16-10, 05:38 PM
I think that alot of the LUXURY element, the f"feel" is not really the car. All of the Luxury BRANDS, mentioned in this thread, as well as the one below, dealing with Cadillac, and youcan add in Chrysler 300SRT-8 for completeness, only only obtain true luxury by what the corporation and their dealers do, AFTER the sale.Our son bought a new Lexus very recently. He paid a ig profit for the car. No $300 over incoice stuff. Don't know what the profit was - but it was over $650.00 (over invoice) Perhaps even more. First oil change & filter was FREE. Since then he was back for a couple of small adjustments. They washed the car for him and they have a "snack room" really furnished woth goodies and tea, coffee, 4 or 5 kinds of soda and alot of snacks. All free. When his car was done the service manager came out to tell us what was found and wha was done. Furthermore they gave him a coupon for the same service next time for 1/2 price.
They don't play the games that most domestic dealers (especially the hi-way whores) do. They give you a price, and of course the buyer thinks it's "too much" and they chop off perhaps $175.00 and THT IS IT. You don't purchase, it's curtsins and the salesman stands & thank you for coming in. It's like if they do not make $1,500 or so they do not want you business.
But, when you come in with a problem, they fall all over you to help, to fix, to replace, to explain, to treat you to munchies, and to thank you for allowing them to help you!!! You cannot do that and sell a $30,000 car, and make $150.00 doing so. Now then.....I love my Lincoln Town Car waaaay more than his NEW Lexus, and I would not trade my Town Car for his Lexus! My TC has more gadjets, smoother ride, is roomier, and has a bigger trunk, more comfortible seats, and omitting the navagation thingiee, my TC has many more usable features.

hey sandy wich model did he get like said above if its the ES then yes the TC is much better
If it was the GS then it might be a toss up between the two for me if it was the LS then id have to say the LS is what id have goen with

Lord Cadillac
10-16-10, 05:40 PM
The GS is such a totally different car than the Town Car. It really can't be compared... Or shouldn't be...


hey sandy wich model did he get like said above if its the ES then yes the TC is much better
If it was the GS then it might be a toss up between the two for me if it was the LS then id have to say the LS is what id have goen with

Fleet
10-16-10, 06:14 PM
They are building luxury cars as long as they keep building the large, RWD Town Car.

drewsdeville
10-16-10, 06:25 PM
For civilians, Town Car is done this model year. Only fleet and livery variants will be available through 2011. Then it's finally the end of the panther platform. The St. Thomas plant closes for good next September.

What a long, agonizing, painful death for the panthers.

ThumperPup
10-16-10, 06:28 PM
i think i remmeber like 2 or 3 years ago they said the same thing it was the end of the retaile TC and what ever they had left would go tords building fleet and livery vehicles but that never happend
wonder if it truly will happen for 2011 or if its just hype to get them to sell more cars again

Jesda
10-16-10, 06:38 PM
Maybe after Jacques Nasser's PAG experiment, Ford is reacting to the recent past by intentionally limiting Lincoln's status to avoid directly competing with Lexus, BMW, and MB.

Lord Cadillac
10-16-10, 07:14 PM
The Town Car is another car that is only "near luxury" in todays day and age. You can't just keep building the same thing over and over again and think it remains in the same class when the rest of the class moves forward. Luxury means more than just big and soft and rear wheel drive.


They are building luxury cars as long as they keep building the large, RWD Town Car.

77CDV
10-16-10, 10:48 PM
In answer to the thread question: no.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-16-10, 11:01 PM
I drove a really sweet Lincoln today, the 1988 Mark VII LSC. Came away quite impressed, will post a review/pics later. :)

Lord Cadillac
10-16-10, 11:15 PM
I had one and I loved it.. It was very comfortable.. And very classy..


I drove a really sweet Lincoln today, the 1988 Mark VII LSC. Came away quite impressed, will post a review/pics later. :)

EChas3
10-16-10, 11:21 PM
Like so many terms, 'Luxury' has been diluted. A Duesenburg was a luxury car. i.e. the finest available. Maybe today's term is 'Exotic' but the Luxury car isn't a Lincoln, Cadillac, Lexus or BMW or Mercedes (except for the flagship if upgraded with hand-tooling.)

Rolls or Bently? Maybe. Name an OUTSTANDING example of automotive excellance.

Lord Cadillac
10-16-10, 11:35 PM
Luxury or not - whatever you want to call it.. What would you call the following cars?

Mercedes S550
Lexus LS460
BMW 750i
Jaguar XJ
Audi A8
Hyundai Equus

Maybe the term shouldn't be "luxury" anymore. Whatever we want to change the term to for 2011 - Lincoln doesn't have it. And apparently, Cadillac doesn't either.

Lupin
10-16-10, 11:41 PM
There is a reason that when you see a town car in the distance in front of you on the highway you slow down for a quick second to make sure it's not a crown vic. It doesn't look like a luxury car at all.

Playdrv4me
10-16-10, 11:51 PM
Luxury or not - whatever you want to call it.. What would you call the following cars?

Mercedes S550
Lexus LS460
BMW 750i
Jaguar XJ
Audi A8
Hyundai Equus

Maybe the term shouldn't be "luxury" anymore. Whatever we want to change the term to for 2011 - Lincoln doesn't have it. And apparently, Cadillac doesn't either.

I agree with Sal... whatever category THOSE cars are in (with the exception of the Equus which I'm not quite ready to hand the title to yet, despite being extremely impressed with initial observations), Cadillac and Lincoln are not.

In other words... whatever the "thing" is that gets people's attention (desire, hate, jealousy, admiration etc etc) when you say "I drive a BMW/Mercedes/Lexus"... doesn't happen anymore with Cadillac or Lincoln... and Acura never had it.

Lord Cadillac
10-16-10, 11:56 PM
Absolutely. And I'm sure you agree that while we can't be sure the Equus is going to be "luxury" at this point in time - it probably is and not only that - it's definitely at least in between "luxury" and "Cadillac"...


I agree with Sal... whatever category THOSE cars are in (with the exception of the Equus which I'm not quite ready to hand the title to yet, despite being extremely impressed with initial observations), Cadillac and Lincoln are not.

In other words... whatever the "thing" is that gets people's attention (desire, hate, jealousy, admiration etc etc) when you say "I drive a BMW/Mercedes/Lexus"... doesn't happen anymore with Cadillac or Lincoln... and Acura never had it.

Playdrv4me
10-17-10, 12:00 AM
Absolutely. And I'm sure you agree that while we can't be sure the Equus is going to be "luxury" at this point in time - it probably is and not only that - it's definitely at least in between "luxury" and "Cadillac"...

Sure... and how about another interesting observation... That "thing" I was talking about in regards to BMW, Lexus and Merc? It *does* happen when you say "Escalade". So even within Cadillac itself, there is a nameplate that carries more weight than the actual brand!

Lord Cadillac
10-17-10, 12:03 AM
I agree.. If the Escalade could be a proper flagship, that would be great. I just don't think Cadillac can create the "new" flagship and make it a full-size SUV. Flagships are, more often than not, the car with the highest amount of technology, most options - it's a showcase of the capabilities a company has. It certainly shouldn't be an SUV based off a Chevy.


Sure... and how about another interesting observation... That "thing" I was talking about in regards to BMW, Lexus and Merc? It *does* happen when you say "Escalade". So even within Cadillac itself, there is a nameplate that carries more weight than the actual brand!

Playdrv4me
10-17-10, 12:06 AM
I agree.. If the Escalade could be a proper flagship, that would be great. I just don't think Cadillac can create the "new" flagship and make it a full-size SUV. Flagships are, more often than not, the car with the highest amount of technology, most options - it's a showcase of the capabilities a company has. It certainly shouldn't be an SUV based off a Chevy.

I agree completely... your "flagship" as a proper luxury brand MUST be a proper 4 door passenger vehicle. Hell, Jaguar STILL doesn't even OFFER an SUV, but their XJ is instantly recognizable as a flagship level car. I was merely pointing out how messed up it is that within the brand, a TRUCK now carries more weight than the brand itself.

EChas3
10-17-10, 12:13 AM
And Cadillac won't give their most popular vehicle their best technolgy: HUD, ACC, Automatic dimmers, Magnaride. Can you get Keyless Entry?

Playdrv4me
10-17-10, 12:39 AM
And Cadillac won't give their most popular vehicle their best technolgy: HUD, ACC, Automatic dimmers, Magnaride. Can you get Keyless Entry?

I noticed that too. I think finally with the Escalade Platinum you can get Magneride and something not yet available in any other Cadillac... LED headlamps. Not just markers or parking lamps, but full LED headlights. I don't think Keyless ignition is available yet.

orconn
10-17-10, 12:44 AM
The Escalade is only prestigeous among certain groups! Perhaps the correct descriptive adjective for you list of cars should "Prestige" cars, because that is exactly what they bring with their ownership. However, their degree of prestige is very socio/economic group sensitive. In most cases the prestige that is derived from these cars ownership is really a fuunction of their price tag, justified or not. And for car enthusiast the reviews of auto journalist who opinions may or may noy be a true reflection of the car's true quality or longterm performance. But either way Cadillacs no longer carry the prestige that they once did. However, if a company like Toyota or Hyundai can convince their American buyersthat their top of the line cars are prestigeous there is hope that, with the right products, Cadillac can again become prestigeous to own.

Lord Cadillac
10-17-10, 12:52 AM
Cadillac can definitely become a prestige brand again. I have little doubt. There's just too much politics going on at GM for this to happen right now.

Fleet
10-17-10, 05:22 AM
The Town Car is another car that is only "near luxury" in todays day and age. You can't just keep building the same thing over and over again and think it remains in the same class when the rest of the class moves forward. Luxury means more than just big and soft and rear wheel drive.
Opinions will vary, of course. Luxury may not only mean big and soft and rear wheel drive, but it should have those features (rear wheel drive not so much, but certainly the other two).

Especially for those who remember and/or drive cars back when bigger was better! And the seats and ride were soft.

Jesda
10-17-10, 07:43 AM
Luxury is having more than you need. So, big and soft is more than you need, but so is extra performance. I guess its a question of what you don't need but still want more of. :)

Lord Cadillac
10-17-10, 11:39 AM
Big and soft was probably all you needed back when the Town Car and Fleetwood were being sold. Nowadays, it's only part of the equation. You need more to be considered "luxury" now. If big and soft were all you needed, a Toyota Avalon would be a luxury car.


Luxury is having more than you need. So, big and soft is more than you need, but so is extra performance. I guess its a question of what you don't need but still want more of. :)

hueterm
10-17-10, 02:25 PM
In the more functional vehicles (MKT/MKX/Navigator) I think they're doing a good job, and could even accept the turbo 6 -- but the MKS really needs a V8....I mean the S80 has one, if FoMoCo hadn't sold Vulva, they could have used it there as well....

Crazy...

Jesda
10-17-10, 04:56 PM
I really do consider the Avalon a luxury car. Its full of technology and rides like a cloud.

Fleet
10-17-10, 05:33 PM
Big and soft was probably all you needed back when the Town Car and Fleetwood were being sold. Nowadays, it's only part of the equation. You need more to be considered "luxury" now. If big and soft were all you needed, a Toyota Avalon would be a luxury car.
Avalons have stiff and hard seats and are about the same size as my former '66 Dodge Dart GT. Avalon... definitely not a luxury car. And certainly not a "big" car.

Fleet
10-17-10, 05:35 PM
I really do consider the Avalon a luxury car. Its full of technology and rides like a cloud.
It pales in comparison with a true luxury car. Like, for instance, a 19-foot long '76 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance.

Jesda
10-17-10, 05:41 PM
It pales in comparison with a true luxury car. Like, for instance, a 19-foot long '76 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance.

Well, yes, there's that. :)

Fleet
10-17-10, 05:56 PM
Well, yes, there's that. :)
Yes, to illustrate, a luxury car should have seats like this:
http://i52.tinypic.com/2s993jt.jpghttp://i51.tinypic.com/upve9.jpg

Not this!:
http://i53.tinypic.com/33b0ba0.jpghttp://i51.tinypic.com/14y1ks0.jpg

Jesda
10-17-10, 06:11 PM
Is that a TSX? I consider them to be less luxurious than the Toyota Avalon, but much much better to drive.

Playdrv4me
10-17-10, 06:12 PM
I think that auto makers learned that seats like the above, while pretty look at and initially couch-like, are murder on any trip over even a few hours long. Far as I know, you can't even get seats like that in a Bentley or Rolls anymore. The best seats I've sat in are probably the ones in the Volvo S60. They somehow managed to have cushion, while maintaining incredible support. The Swedish do miracles with chairs.

orconn
10-17-10, 06:15 PM
Those funky old cushions that Cadillac used to put in their land barges were only luxurious to the same people that put vinyl see through slipcovers on their sofas!

Fleet
10-17-10, 06:22 PM
Is that a TSX? I consider them to be less luxurious than the Toyota Avalon, but much much better to drive.
No, that is my brother's 2008 Acura TL. He has the unfortunate taste of liking such cars. It has hard, stiff seats like most imports have.

Fleet
10-17-10, 06:25 PM
Those funky old cushions that Cadillac used to put in their land barges were only luxurious to the same people that put vinyl see through slipcovers on their sofas!
The seats in the photo are from a '76 Fleetwood Brougham d'Elegance. Owned by a friend who bought it sight unseen off eBay. It had 1,200 miles when bought 4-5 years ago. Now has around 3,400 miles.

I have rode in it several times... extremely soft and comfortable seats! Just like the saying went, "like sitting on a living room couch." No way will you see seats as comfortable as those are today. But this being a Cadillac board, I probably don't have to state the obvious.

Fleet
10-17-10, 06:48 PM
I think that auto makers learned that seats like the above, while pretty look at and initially couch-like, are murder on any trip over even a few hours long. Far as I know, you can't even get seats like that in a Bentley or Rolls anymore. The best seats I've sat in are probably the ones in the Volvo S60. They somehow managed to have cushion, while maintaining incredible support. The Swedish do miracles with chairs.
My friends and I drive that car and other classic Cadillac similar to it in and around the local mountains. Very difficult to be uncomfortable with seats like those. In fact, I regret leaving the car; don't want to get out! With the very smooth ride and those plush and soft seats, it's like riding on a cloud. You can't experience that in a Volvo!

My dad used to drive to Las Vegas when he owned a '69 Cadillac. Never complained about the seats on that 2-3 hour drive.

Lord Cadillac
10-17-10, 06:54 PM
I'd call the Toyota Avalon a near luxury sedan. It doesn't have the performance or features to be called a luxury sedan in 2010. In 1990, it would have been the best luxury sedan on the market.

hueterm
10-17-10, 06:58 PM
I'd rather have a 1990 560SEL than a 2010 Avalon, even today....

Lord Cadillac
10-17-10, 08:02 PM
Me too if it weren't for modern gadgetry...


I'd rather have a 1990 560SEL than a 2010 Avalon, even today....

orconn
10-17-10, 08:22 PM
My friends and I drive that car and other classic Cadillac similar to it in and around the local mountains. Very difficult to be uncomfortable with seats like those. In fact, I regret leaving the car; don't want to get out! With the very smooth ride and those plush and soft seats, it's like riding on a cloud. You can't experience that in a Volvo!

My dad used to drive to Las Vegas when he owned a '69 Cadillac. Never complained about the seats on that 2-3 hour drive.

I have driven the Angeles Crest so many times I can't count them and so many of the other mountain roads in the San Gabriels, and I can't imagine those cushion top seats being comfortable for that kind of drive. As far as the '69 Cadillac goes it doesn't nor did it ever have those cushion topped seats, what they had were very comfortable bench seats, the ones in my aunt's Sedan de Ville were leather covered. I drove that '69 fom L.A. to Phoenix and vice verse on several occasions and yes it was a very comfortable long distance car. But it didn't have those super soft cushion top seats like the car in your picture.

orconn
10-17-10, 08:32 PM
I think that auto makers learned that seats like the above, while pretty look at and initially couch-like, are murder on any trip over even a few hours long. Far as I know, you can't even get seats like that in a Bentley or Rolls anymore. The best seats I've sat in are probably the ones in the Volvo S60. They somehow managed to have cushion, while maintaining incredible support. The Swedish do miracles with chairs.

I've never undertood why carmakers from other countries have not copied Volvo's seats. Ever since I first rode in a Volvo, in Brazil in the 1950's, I noticed the difference. Then my brother-in-law got a 1957 Volvo 544 coupe and the seats in that car were superior to those in either the '57 Olds 98 or the '56 or '60 Cadillac Fleetwoods my dad had (the seats in the Mercedes 300D sedan I drove were beter that the Cads' too).

If you like the seats in the S60 you should really try the ones in the S80. The S80's seat are the best car seats I have ever sat in, bar none! If it weren't for Volvo's crappy steering I would have bought a S80 years ago.

Lord Cadillac
10-17-10, 08:37 PM
Speaking of seats, my favorites are in the LS430 and LS460. High-end Town Cars and Fleetwoods are a close second.

Fleet
10-17-10, 10:24 PM
I have driven the Angeles Crest so many times I can't count them and so many of the other mountain roads in the San Gabriels, and I can't imagine those cushion top seats being comfortable for that kind of drive. As far as the '69 Cadillac goes it doesn't nor did it ever have those cushion topped seats, what they had were very comfortable bench seats, the ones in my aunt's Sedan de Ville were leather covered. I drove that '69 fom L.A. to Phoenix and vice verse on several occasions and yes it was a very comfortable long distance car. But it didn't have those super soft cushion top seats like the car in your picture.
Oh, those cushion top seats are comfortable. As I said, I didn't want to get out of the car! Myself and the other 2 passengers were commenting to the owner about the seats. Have you rode in a Cadillac with those type of seats?

Jesda
10-17-10, 10:47 PM
The LS430's German-influenced seats don't do a thing for me, but the ones in the LS400 are spring-supported like a mattress and extremely comfortable on long trips. Really, everything about the LS430 made me appreciate all the things the LS400 did right -- and that's a lot coming from me, someone who wasn't a fan of the LS400.

Fleet
10-17-10, 10:52 PM
The LS430's German-influenced seats don't do a thing for me, but the ones in the LS400 are spring-supported like a mattress and extremely comfortable on long trips. Really, everything about the LS430 made me appreciate all the things the LS400 did right -- and that's a lot coming from me, someone who wasn't a fan of the LS400.
If back seats count, too, then my choice would be the back seats in the factory Cadillac Limousines. :cool:
http://i55.tinypic.com/34ezxo4.jpg

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-17-10, 10:55 PM
The best seats I've ridden in a while are those in the '78 Eldorado Biarritz that my buddy Brandon had for a while, and the velour seats in his '86 Town Car Signature Series.

With the Eldorado, the leather wasn't the best out there, but the pillow-top seats were SO soft and so deep, and unlike the seats in his '91 Brougham D'Elegance, the pillow top goes all the way up the seatback, and doesn't stop 2/3's of the way up. With the Town Car, they're like bean bags, but they offer great lateral support because you sink so deep into the seats and they kinda wrap themselves around you. If I ever heard of a "bucket seat", it would be those. The velour is super soft and plush too!

77CDV
10-18-10, 12:38 AM
Mmmmm.....velour.... :drool: