: Burn oil when turning, on-ramps wow...



ponyboyt
10-14-10, 04:12 PM
noticed that today, getting on the highway, on the on ramp. Car was leaning toward the drivers side, and i saw the smoke. I have a habbit of watching for smoke... there was no smoke the 12 km's to that onramp. Also noticed it on the offramp, which first bends to the right then the left. It smoked a bit turning to the right, but not left. After the off ramp is a light and a bridge, it also smoked going up the hill.

Only when hitting the gas.

where is the oil pooling up?

vincentm
10-14-10, 05:41 PM
Blown Head Gasket?

Read this:

http://www.northstarperformance.com/hgfaq.php

ponyboyt
10-14-10, 06:05 PM
nope headgaskets are good. Engine has 30,000 on it.

Sorry, this is my 98 STS. Coolant has been perfect since i changed it 3 months ago.

Now it blows blue smoke sitting in park if i touch the gas....

Started burning lots of oil a few weeks ago. As in, over 2 litres in 650 km. Today i noticed when the oil was changed they didnt change the filter......

Submariner409
10-14-10, 06:41 PM
Oil burning is one of two things: Bad valve stem seals or broken/stuck piston rings. (There are other causes, but I'm assuming there are no catastrophic rumbles, knocks, or rattles - as in: broken parts in the engine - also that the PCV system is functioning properly.)

If you'll get the car up to 50 on the highway, light throttle cruise, take your foot off the gas and downshift to 2 - let it slow to about 30 then accelerate moderately. Blue smoke ??? Valve stem seals or piston rings.

"They changed the oil" ...... what did "they" use for oil ??? And have you checked for proper oil level - halfway up the dipstick hashmark, no more ?

Burning oil only when in a specific turn pattern sounds like overfilling and therefore oil slosh/foaming in turns.

ponyboyt
10-14-10, 06:53 PM
i had to top it up a few days ago. Soon as it warmed up i went out on the highway, did 3 or 4 runs in 2. Im constantly checking my mirror for it, and today i see smoke. (i used penzoil when i topped it up, quaker state when the oil was changed. 10w-30).

Ya i was thinking stuck rings... why would the seals go at 30k???

Gona go back and get it changed again, REALLY thinking about synthetic. Is it ok to use Lucas with synthetic?

Now as i said, sitting out front in park, take it up to 2800-3000 for a second, its slowly blowing blue smoke. No noise from the engine, just a faint tick above cylender 2.

97EldoCoupe
10-14-10, 09:22 PM
Are you positive it's not by chance excess fuel? Oil burning usually results with a gradual on-set. Not like "boom" and it's burning oil. Not normally.

Excess fuel is normally black smoke but I have seen some weird things.

Valve stem seals don't normally give out on a Northstar. GM even states in the FSM that usually they don't need replacement, they are constructed of a very good rubber (they don't harden up like in SBC's). They also have a spring around each seal, if the seal wears slightly, the spring keeps the seal tight against the valve stem.

I have seen PCV valves go nuts and cause oil consumption. I have about 500 new GM PCV valves. And your car will be done soon Mason - getting over a lot of legal stuff, moving stuff, and a bit of illness. On the bright side, all of the cuts and slices on my hands are pretty much healed over again - time for some heavy duty wrenching!

97EldoCoupe
10-14-10, 09:24 PM
Removing my accidental double post...

ponyboyt
10-14-10, 10:50 PM
the old PCV was soaked, did i mention that? I stole the one outa that deville motor :) But its still smoking. Reminds me of when my 97 would randomly smoke my driveway out while sitting there idling... kinda on a hill. That was some bad emissions components, turned out to be the umm... solenoid... for uhh.. something....

EVAP i think.

Ranger
10-14-10, 11:52 PM
noticed that today, getting on the highway, on the on ramp. Car was leaning toward the drivers side, and i saw the smoke. I have a habbit of watching for smoke... there was no smoke the 12 km's to that onramp. Also noticed it on the offramp, which first bends to the right then the left. It smoked a bit turning to the right, but not left. After the off ramp is a light and a bridge, it also smoked going up the hill.

Only when hitting the gas.

where is the oil pooling up?
In the intake manifold.

ponyboyt
10-15-10, 08:30 AM
/\ was hoping i might hear that.

Ok so 3 days in a row now, 40 degrees outside in the morning. This car does not smoke until it starts warming up?

Started it today, drove a couple km to a 70 zone, sped up a bit and dropped to 2nd, eased into the gas, no smoke. Get on the highway, up to 120ish, into 2nd, ease into the gas, small puff.

Floor it to 6000+, let off, again, let off, no smoke.... (temp was at 12oclock by now).

Im guessing bad valve stem seals would show most when the engine is cold??? But i would think rings would too... All i saw with the car idling cold was _condensation_, almost pure white smoke, not large ammounts, just the same as every other car out there on a cold day.

Ill check the oil at lunch, or when i get a break here at work.

Submariner409
10-15-10, 08:47 AM
Remember - your oil level should be

.......................here....not here..............

<------ ADD XXXXXXXXX OPERATING RANGE --------------------------O

ponyboyt
10-15-10, 11:12 AM
I just checked it and its bang on. exactly in the center of the 6 notches on the end of the stick. My oil life is at 77% and the oild is -black-

A week ago i had topped it up, and reset the trip meter. One day i started the car and it said "check oil level". I looked at the trip and it was at about 650 km. Im thinking, ok thats a lot of oil in 650 kms... So i checked the stick and it was dry. I put in about 2 litres to bring it up just past half way on the stick, not even half a notch past where it is now, more likely it was where it is now. I reset the trip. There is 170 on the trip now. So it seems it hasnt move. Oh ya, when i reset the trip last, i changed the PCV when the trip was at about 30km.

Cant be too much oil in there now, there MIGHT have been a notch over half 170km ago, but why would it be smoking now? Seems to me im not losing oil, its just smoking... will see how smokes when i leave work at lunch today....

It doesnt look good driving this thing with a for sale sign in the back window, and people pull up close to look and see it smoking like that.... lol...

Submariner409
10-15-10, 01:38 PM
OLM at 77% and the oil is black ?? Not good - at that life the oil should be clear dark amber. How's your gas mileage ??

ponyboyt
10-15-10, 02:48 PM
31 mpg with cruise at 80, 28 with cruise at 50. AVG is 16 in the last 10,000 km's.

Submariner409
10-15-10, 04:06 PM
31 mpg with cruise at 80, 28 with cruise at 50. AVG is 16 in the last 10,000 km's.

31/28 mpg highway ? Hang on to that car: you have the single most economical 1998 Northstar STS on Earth. 16 is about right for near suburban.

Ontario - cruise - 80. How come you're not in jail ???

ponyboyt
10-15-10, 05:07 PM
31 @ 80km/h

oops. Seems what it should be? @100 i dont know, my speed sensor kills the cruise at about 110. probably 28 or better.

Submariner409
10-15-10, 08:51 PM
31 @ 80km/h

oops. Seems what it should be? @100 i dont know, my speed sensor kills the cruise at about 110. probably 28 or better.
miles X kMh =
.62 X 80 = about 50 mph. 27 - 28 mpg US - maybe....flat roads, no wind.
.62 X 100 = 62 mph. ........24.5 mpg US - maybe 25. Not uncommon for STS (SLS is higher).
.62 X 50 = 31 mph. Somewhat lower mileage due to lower engine efficiency.

Best all around for a Northstar with the 3.71 final drive is steady-state 50/55 mph US level roads, driver and one passenger up, maybe 26 mpg US.

If your speed limiter is killing the car at 70 mph (110 kMh), you have real problems.

ponyboyt
10-15-10, 09:31 PM
its the VSS in the trans, not the limiter. Makes the spedo needle hop a bit at anything over 110, and kills the cruise control.

Jailtime
10-17-10, 12:47 AM
Best all around for a Northstar with the 3.71 final drive is steady-state 50/55 mph US level roads, driver and one passenger up, maybe 26 mpg US.


I squeezed 28 (by the DIC) out of mine on a 120 mile trip. Just me in the car, 93 octane gas, new plugs. Mostly flat, a few mountain passes, and one small town on the way. I was driving like there was an egg under the throttle.

ponyboyt
10-17-10, 02:10 AM
cruise on, instant MPG, not average... its always high. I check every couple days. Soon as i hit a hill it goes down to low 20s, but its always 29-30-31. Anything over 90ish km/h it starts going down.

AVG is actualy 15.5 as i just checked, i wouldn't call it suburban driving.... im not easy on it.

Submariner409
10-17-10, 07:56 AM
cruise on, instant MPG, not average... its always high. I check every couple days. Soon as i hit a hill it goes down to low 20s, but its always 29-30-31. Anything over 90ish km/h it starts going down.

AVG is actualy 15.5 as i just checked, i wouldn't call it suburban driving.... im not easy on it.

OK - Now I understand: that instant mileage is fun to watch but it really is worthless for gauging actual fuel consumption - use the long-term average instead and don't reset it every fillup - let it run for a few months. Then, and only then, you'll have a decent idea of real-world mileage.

FWIW, on a long coastdown in my STS, the instant mileage will zip up to 70 mpg ! (Don't I wish!)

ponyboyt
10-17-10, 10:03 PM
ya i know it goes up going down hill and stuff, but im being realistic watching the avg for every few minutes. 15.5 cant be bad the way i drive it. People like to hear that chirp wot 1 to 2 :)

maeng9981
10-19-10, 12:52 AM
heck, I get 70 mpg according to that instant mileage! hahahaha I am currently averaging 16mpg, mostly town.

ponyboyt
10-19-10, 11:37 AM
Oil is still on the 2nd notch of the stick.... I read up on the PCV catch can, might give that a shot.

So far some ideas ive been given:

Clogged return passages
Stuck rings
Valve seals
Emissions/PCV problems.

Oil passages can be flushed.
Stuck rings generaly can get unstock with WOT runs, which this car gets.... so hummm
Valve seals: rare to see bad ones, hella rare on an engine with 30,000km on it.
Emissions system: PCV, EVAP etc... well, the only code my car gets is for the VSS and that only pops once in a while when you go over 100km/h.

Have to wait til the weekend, in the middle of a move.... but doing the oil again, and filter, will take a look at oil flow under the PCV and oil filler cap and see what we see.

ponyboyt
10-25-10, 09:20 AM
rained all weekend, not much done, but i had a few minutes to look...

Pulled 1+3 spark plugs. There is oil in the threads???? The tubes the plugs go into are dry, there was a bit of dust at the bottom but they are shiny and dry, just oil in the plug threads. Plugs are shot, very corroded. Red tinge in the porcelin... burn marks maybe? looks like rust.

Submariner409
10-25-10, 12:32 PM
rained all weekend, not much done, but i had a few minutes to look...

Pulled 1+3 spark plugs. There is oil in the threads???? The tubes the plugs go into are dry, there was a bit of dust at the bottom but they are shiny and dry, just oil in the plug threads. Plugs are shot, very corroded. Red tinge in the porcelin... burn marks maybe? looks like rust.

That red color is caused by some fuel additives.