: Cadillac Is A "Near-Luxury" Brand



Lord Cadillac
10-14-10, 11:51 AM
Does anyone realize that GM management has recently called Cadillac a "near luxury" brand? What are your thoughts on this?

orconn
10-14-10, 01:15 PM
I have never been particularly "brand concious" in the selection of my personal cars, so I would say as long as Cadillac builds cars that I want to own (non currently) like the 4th and 5th generation Seville I will be a Cadillac owner. Due to Cadillac's very spotty reputation for build quality and standing behind their products I can fully understand a consumer's inclination to seek out other "near luxury" brands.

Let's face it, if "exclusivity" is a prime criteria for a "luxury" brand there are only a few such car brands left in the world. Mercedes, BMW, Lexus certainly wouldn't count in that market segment anymore, but would really be "executive" class as they are called in Europe. Since so-called luxury has really descended to a matter of how many gadgets you can cram into your automotive product and leasing (until recently) has put a "luxury" car in anyone with a pay check's garage! So today, the term "luxury" should really only apply to those make whose price "new" makes the exclusively available to the top 1/2% income bracket.

Lord Cadillac
10-14-10, 01:22 PM
....................that being said.. Mercedes, BMW, Audi, Jaguar, Lexus, Infiniti - they're all "luxury" car companies. "Near luxury" includes Lincoln, Acura and apparently - Cadillac.

OffThaHorseCEO
10-14-10, 01:36 PM
ant the reason for that is mercedes puts their all into their models, as does bmw and most of the other brands listed as "luxury" brands.

Cadillac is constantly being brought down to the level of a chevy or buick. its almost like they say, "put some leather on it, slap a caddy badge on it, and add a few thousand to the sticker."

Lord Cadillac
10-14-10, 01:56 PM
Oddly enough, it seems like Chevy may have a bigger full-size car than Cadillac in the not-too-distant future. I wish it would be the other way around... A lot of people feel the SRX is the perfect Buick to take on Lexus. So I see what you're saying there...


ant the reason for that is mercedes puts their all into their models, as does bmw and most of the other brands listed as "luxury" brands.

Cadillac is constantly being brought down to the level of a chevy or buick. its almost like they say, "put some leather on it, slap a caddy badge on it, and add a few thousand to the sticker."

OffThaHorseCEO
10-14-10, 02:14 PM
Oddly enough, it seems like Chevy may have a bigger full-size car than Cadillac in the not-too-distant future. I wish it would be the other way around... A lot of people feel the SRX is the perfect Buick to take on Lexus. So I see what you're saying there...

even though size goes with my "excess" reasoning in the other thread, size doesnt always EQUAL excess. My Allante is a much smaller car than my 96 ETC was but for the time it was put together much better and even now feels like a much more "luxurious" car.

almost every surface on The Allante is covered with soft material, even the seat bottoms. The seat bottoms on my 96 ETC, 2001 DTS and 2004 SRX are all that hard grainy plastic with hard sharp edges. The trunk and trunk lid on the allante is lined to match the interior. The trunk on my 96 ETC was dark grey, like any other ETC from that year. The trunk on both the Deville and DTS was lined with the same dark grey material. None of the trunk lids were lined. This may seem unnecessary but its the difference between a "near-luxury" car and a luxury car.


im only comparing to the allante because its what i have available to compare. Im sure those statements also apply to the other vehicles on the "luxury" list compared to todays cadillacs

OffThaHorseCEO
10-14-10, 02:26 PM
i take it back, the 2001 Deville AND DTS both had trunk lid liners, but it was the super cheap stuff, and grey on both of them

http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y205/Offthahorseceo/Caddy/09-04-05_1243.jpg
http://i6.photobucket.com/albums/y205/Offthahorseceo/photoshop/kingkong.jpg

Jesda
10-14-10, 02:29 PM
Good. This means they know there's room to move the brand upscale.

Maybe it'll increase the resale value of my old Seville (just kidding, not gonna happen).

OffThaHorseCEO
10-14-10, 02:38 PM
Good. This means they know there's room to move the brand upscale.

Maybe it'll increase the resale value of my old Seville (just kidding, not gonna happen).

im pretty sure they already knew there was room for improvement. the question is are they WILLING to improve it. Do they want to be back on top of the game, known as the standard of the world, or would they rather make MASS-production cars with mass production quality and mass-production money.

Does anyone know if any of the above listed mfg's make more profit per car than Cadillac?

Lord Cadillac
10-14-10, 02:44 PM
I think this is the Catch-22... Right now they NEED the mass production to stay alive. They need as many customers as possible. They need to sell a lot of automobiles. But if they succeed and get all these new customers, will a Cadillac be a vehicle that you strive to own? I mean, if everybody has one.......


im pretty sure they already knew there was room for improvement. the question is are they WILLING to improve it. Do they want to be back on top of the game, known as the standard of the world, or would they rather make MASS-production cars with mass production quality and mass-production money.

Does anyone know if any of the above listed mfg's make more profit per car than Cadillac?

Stingroo
10-14-10, 03:04 PM
Off topic, but LOL @ OffThaHorseCEO's "King Kong in my trunk" pic. :lol:

OffThaHorseCEO
10-14-10, 03:05 PM
I think this is the Catch-22... Right now they NEED the mass production to stay alive. They need as many customers as possible. They need to sell a lot of automobiles. But if they succeed and get all these new customers, will a Cadillac be a vehicle that you strive to own? I mean, if everybody has one.......

I think that was originally the point of having all these brands under one corporate indentity. if not then it should have been

You keep chevy as the mass produced "every-mans" vehicle with higher profit margins but not the BEST quality. Obviously you dont want the car falling apart, it should lead ITS class but not encroach into a higher class. You take some of the money from Chevy's higher profit margins, and build a better Cadillac.
Use this extra money for research and development on new technologies or improvement on existing technologies. Take these new technologies and over time trickle them down to your "lower class' brands, NOT the other way around. This keeps the technologies in use and paying for themselves.

Eventually you would build a higher profit margin into the Cadillacs, and build more of them, but not to the point where you lose your exclusivity. I think thats what ended up happening. They became too "everyday".

orconn
10-14-10, 03:49 PM
I think this is the Catch-22... Right now they NEED the mass production to stay alive. They need as many customers as possible. They need to sell a lot of automobiles. But if they succeed and get all these new customers, will a Cadillac be a vehicle that you strive to own? I mean, if everybody has one.......

Are you living in a dream world? Everyone who wants a Cadillac already has one .... new or used !

Stingroo
10-14-10, 03:59 PM
I disagree. I don't have one... anymore.

:(

the recluse
10-14-10, 07:17 PM
Cadillac has almost always led the curve in the tech department and can outperform a lot of its European counterparts. 1,000hp V16? only in the Cadillac R&D department. 556 hp production car that gets 15 mpg? only in a Cadillac my friend....

The shift to a "near luxury" is probably to get it outside the "exclusivity" price tag and get them closer to a mass production spec to improve the profit margin on more cars. Near luxury or not, the sales of cars over say $35,000 is almost a void in itself; lest we forget the present condition of the automotive market as a whole. :emocide:

The biggest problem is that fewer and fewer people fully appreciate a good quality car build these days. People run around in econo crap-boxes that you can pick up between $15,000 to $22,000 new. They just throw them away and start over. That coupled with the push (mostly from the "newer" consumer) to go "green", as some don't want the look of a rolling land yacht for fear of not looking like a tree hugging, bunny lover. :wes::grouphug::gnome:

All this brings a conundrum in and of itself. People want "nice" things. People want "nice" things "cheap". People want "nice' things "now"; but like the old adage goes: "We got FAST, GOOD, and CHEAP, pick any to two, you'll never get all three." With the shape of the automarket, manufacturers are trying to find the middle of the road to these three thing to sell cars and stay alive. Until then, we must deal with it.

billc83
10-14-10, 07:30 PM
There was an interesting article a few years ago that analyzed the average Cadillac price when compared to the average American salary adjusted for inflation. New Cadillacs have been getting less expensive over the decades!

SDCaddyLacky
10-14-10, 07:36 PM
I would say that Cadillac is a luxury brand, but more of an intermediate luxury brand. They have performance down, but what about comfort, and building huge full size cars that they were always known for? It's not hard to build and design a nice attracting land yachts, shoot, that was Cadillac's specialty. Cadillac needs an answer for the Lexus LS460, they need an answer for the BMW 7 Series, they need an answer for the Mercedes S-Class, I mean why haven't the heads over at GM decided to force this issue? If Caddy did build something similar to those full size luxury cars, with all the great features, Cadillac would be back in the game, so far this hasn't been the case because everyone seems to be buying the European brands more than anything. Honestly, Lexus does higher end luxury cars, and the tech that's put into those machines makes it feel pretty amazing, same goes to the 7 Series.

Step up your game Cadillac!!

77CDV
10-14-10, 11:40 PM
There's an excellent article in the current issue of Collectible Automobile on the last of the top-line Packards. Read with an eye towards Cadillac's current and proposed product mix, the story and outcome seem depressingly familiar.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-14-10, 11:55 PM
I'd say that a "near luxury" brand would be Acura, Buick or Lincoln (boy, has Lincoln ever slipped), because they offer cars that are on the low end of the luxury spectrum when it comes to price, configuration and size. None of these brands offer a V8, a proper RWD sedan nor a full size. Cadillac would have to be placed into the intermediate luxury segment, where it lies with Infiniti. They offer a great little sports sedan that starts in the mid 30's, and a little luxury crossover that starts at $33,800, a few bigger luxury sedans that start in the high 40s and the big luxury utes that start in the low 60s and work their way up into the low 70s. Since the XLR was killed, they lack a premium, exclusive convertible and they've never truly had a flagship sedan in the likes of the 7 Series, S Class and LS.

IMO, the premium luxury brands should have a wide selection of vehicles, to cater to any and all desires that a luxury car owner would have. Mercedes has this down to a T. Four different classes of luxury sedans, with three different classes of luxury SUV's, three different luxury coupes, two different luxury convertibles, and a few different super cars. M-B, BMW, Audi, Jaguar and Lexus occupy this segment.

Lord Cadillac
10-15-10, 10:43 AM
I agree with "intermediate" luxury as well. However, the management at GM appears to feel otherwise...

orconn
10-15-10, 03:08 PM
There's an excellent article in the current issue of Collectible Automobile on the last of the top-line Packards. Read with an eye towards Cadillac's current and proposed product mix, the story and outcome seem depressingly familiar.

The old "Packard went down the tubes because they introduced an affordable model" chant could be applied to Mercedes just as well as Cadillac!

77CDV
10-15-10, 04:22 PM
The old "Packard went down the tubes because they introduced an affordable model" chant could be applied to Mercedes just as well as Cadillac!

It isn't putting out an affordable model that's the problem. The problem is when you try to base all your cars on that affordable model. That's what Packard did and what Cadillac is currently doing. MB has the C and the S, and while they share some technology and common styling elements, they aren't interchangable cars. Cadillac seems hellbound to base all its cars on the CTS. While the CTS is a fine car in its own class, it will never be a suitable basis for a flagship sedan.

Lord Cadillac
10-15-10, 04:25 PM
Mercedes could sell a $25 car that you have to peddle. That wouldn't take anything away from the fact that the S550 is a highly regarded top tier luxury performance sedan that every other automobile manufacturer wishes was their own.


The old "Packard went down the tubes because they introduced an affordable model" chant could be applied to Mercedes just as well as Cadillac!

Sandy
10-15-10, 08:41 PM
I know that there are more than likely better cars out there than Cadillac & Lincoln, in the luxury class. But, I want to support our Domestic Automobile industry, so I buy one or the other of the above.
I used to swear by Imperials, as did my father & uncles and cousins. When my mom was alive and back in the mid 1960s, mom made Thanksgiving almost every year and invited "the gang" ~ when all of the gang was here, there would be about 8 to 10 Imperials in the driveway & / or in the street. When the last Imperial was done (1990 thru 1993 - same car) I swiched to Cadillac and / or Lincoln. The Imperials were better than both of them. Heavier, stronger, more lavish interiors,more horsepower, better handling, due to torsion bars up front, and if one bought the LeBaron, it was even more impressive, too.
But, most of you were just a thought in your Mom's mind. at that time.
Imperials were so tough & strong, that they were BANNED from running in demo-derbies, because the "derby" would be over too soon. The Imperials would bash the crap outta all the others in 6 minutes, and the paying spectators would not get their monies worth of "entertainment" - 1 good hit from an Imp and the car thatwas hit was done!

Playdrv4me
10-15-10, 10:46 PM
I agree overall that you can only mold and stretch that Sigma platform so many different ways. To build an S Class competitor would require something more substantial... even the Holden platform the G8 was based off of would probably work, but not Sigma.

Jesda
10-15-10, 10:59 PM
Imperials were so tough & strong, that they were BANNED from running in demo-derbies, because the "derby" would be over too soon. The Imperials would bash the crap outta all the others in 6 minutes, and the paying spectators would not get their monies worth of "entertainment" - 1 good hit from an Imp and the car thatwas hit was done!


Awesome! :worship:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-15-10, 11:03 PM
It's sad to me that all those fine, highly desirable (in their day) Imperials are now being destroyed in droves for demolition derbies.

Lord Cadillac
10-16-10, 04:29 PM
The G8's platform is going to sit beneath a new large full-size Chevy. While that wouldn't be the best platform for an S-Class competitor - it would be SOMETHING. And I have little doubt that Cadillac couldn't make it into something very good. Why not move forward with that? At least for now - and build upon it? At least then Cadillac would have something to sell to people looking for this type of car. As it stands, they have nothing - meaning they can't sell anything. Why not get in the game? Instead of losing customers who are looking for something to move up to from an STS or DTS, give them SOMETHING - not a FWD car with a V6.


I agree overall that you can only mold and stretch that Sigma platform so many different ways. To build an S Class competitor would require something more substantial... even the Holden platform the G8 was based off of would probably work, but not Sigma.

Cadillacboy
10-17-10, 09:34 AM
I see some good points why Cadillac is near luxury

They stopped making footrests , lack of chrome trims inside , cheap plastic parts ,stopped making using of real wood , no power rear seats .However if you like at Jaguar / Daimler, MB S Class, BMW 7 Series, rear seats can be available .

I don't like turn signal on my Fleetwood, it's just cheap whereas '92 Broughams came with chrome . '94 Fleetwoods came with more than 2 power lumbar supports whereas '96s only 1 button .Those are little details but details build up the things if you ask me

Lord Cadillac
10-17-10, 09:51 AM
You're right. It IS the little details. These details add up.


I see some good points why Cadillac is near luxury

They stopped making footrests , lack of chrome trims inside , cheap plastic parts ,stopped making using of real wood , no power rear seats .However if you like at Jaguar / Daimler, MB S Class, BMW 7 Series, rear seats can be available .

I don't like turn signal on my Fleetwood, it's just cheap whereas '92 Broughams came with chrome . '94 Fleetwoods came with more than 2 power lumbar supports whereas '96s only 1 button .Those are little details but details build up the things if you ask me