: 2 piece brembo rotors



Lindsay Cadillac Parts
10-07-10, 01:58 PM
I have access to a few sets of the brand new 2 piece full floating front rotors for the 09 and newer CTS-V. cost of the front pair is $1175.00 plus shipping. The main draw to a 2 piece set up is to get rid of heat quickly during "performance" driving (like on the track). these will weigh less as well giving less unsprung weight. give me a call at 703-824-9670 or email at lbutler@lindsaycadillac.com to place an order

TMC CL65
10-07-10, 02:22 PM
Luke:

How much do the OEM rotors cost in comparison to these?

Tom

Lindsay Cadillac Parts
10-07-10, 02:31 PM
GM list price on the stock fronts is $406.00 each (we would get $250.00ish each to forum folks). I am waiting on a price on the replacement rings on the 2 piece to see where that stacks up.

Junior1
10-07-10, 02:37 PM
I've put a bunch of laps on these up at Monticello on their '09 V's...No warping, fading, pulling, etc. just hard clean stops. I really like em and they look bad@ss. I'm trying to get them for my V1

Lindsay Cadillac Parts
10-08-10, 03:17 PM
2 sets left.

The Tony Show
10-08-10, 04:27 PM
http://www.dailyhaha.com/_pics/cat_its_beautiful.jpg

roarkb
10-09-10, 10:23 AM
Brembo told me at the Cadillac Event that these would eliminate the front wheel clicking as they do not have the material mismatch as do the stock rotors.

dvandentop
10-09-10, 11:56 AM
let us know how much rpl rings are for them

thebigjimsho
10-15-10, 08:58 PM
I do not have the money. This makes me sad.

DrumStix
10-16-10, 01:11 AM
Brembo told me at the Cadillac Event that these would eliminate the front wheel clicking as they do not have the material mismatch as do the stock rotors.

That would be anatomically correct, sir.

ErikH
10-16-10, 01:43 AM
I can vouch for the wheel clicking claim (so far). I have the 2 pc rotors and no clicks for 17K miles.

Caddyscat
10-16-10, 03:25 AM
So you mean to relay that "brembo" (SALES rep) told you that this would eliminate the wheel clicking? Did they know that the OEM rotors are co-cast? I'm not trying to knock the cool 2 piece rotors, but I find that statement a little difficult to digest considering the mounting surfaces on both is aluminum. The obvious difference is that the 2 piece has a black finish to it.
I might have to pick up a set to do a little "research" on the claimed benefit.

DrumStix
10-16-10, 09:40 AM
So you mean to relay that "brembo" (SALES rep) told you that this would eliminate the wheel clicking? Did they know that the OEM rotors are co-cast? I'm not trying to knock the cool 2 piece rotors, but I find that statement a little difficult to digest considering the mounting surfaces on both is aluminum. The obvious difference is that the 2 piece has a black finish to it.
I might have to pick up a set to do a little "research" on the claimed benefit.

It's not necessarily the material, it's how it was machined and finished. Two totally different mills and processes.

wfo
10-16-10, 11:06 AM
Sweet looking, but I wish they would make a nice drilled set as well.

Caddyscat
10-16-10, 07:54 PM
It's not necessarily the material, it's how it was machined and finished. Two totally different mills and processes.

Hmmm, interesting. Thanks for bringing that up 'stix.

thebigjimsho
10-16-10, 11:07 PM
Sweet looking, but I wish they would make a nice drilled set as well.
Brembo themselves poo-poo the idea of cross drilling. I don't think you'll see a set of serious 2 piece rotors being sullied by that junk...

Chris__B
10-17-10, 02:45 PM
Brembo themselves poo-poo the idea of cross drilling. I don't think you'll see a set of serious 2 piece rotors being sullied by that junk...
Really? Most OE applications done by Brembo come with drilled rotors, plus every Gran Turismo aftermarket kit comes that way unless slotted-only is specified. Notable exceptions are Camaro SS, CTS-V, Hyundai Genesis and some others. I don't think I've seen many Porsches, Ferraris or Lamborghinis without drilled rotors.

Chris

GMX322V S/C
10-17-10, 05:11 PM
Brembo race rotors are all slotted or solid, probably to prevent cracking. Our Vs are so heavy, maybe they're going for max durability as endurance racers do.

thebigjimsho
10-18-10, 12:56 AM
Really? Most OE applications done by Brembo come with drilled rotors, plus every Gran Turismo aftermarket kit comes that way unless slotted-only is specified. Notable exceptions are Camaro SS, CTS-V, Hyundai Genesis and some others. I don't think I've seen many Porsches, Ferraris or Lamborghinis without drilled rotors.

Chris
It's an outdated technology. Cross drilling was originally effective to let gases escape the braking surface. With modern pads, it's not needed. And it has no other purpose, except to look ridiculous...

GMX322V S/C
10-18-10, 02:21 AM
Slotting also helps outgasses and buildup escape to the edge of the rotor, but doesn't reduce the weight of the rotor appreciably. Cross-drilling reduces weight, but also reduces swept area and increases the chances of cracking...

yooper
10-18-10, 10:12 AM
:yeah:
let us know how much rpl rings are for them

Chris__B
10-18-10, 12:52 PM
It's an outdated technology. Cross drilling was originally effective to let gases escape the braking surface. With modern pads, it's not needed. And it has no other purpose, except to look ridiculous...
Somehow, that myth continues to float around the Internet. The actual purpose of cross-drilling (proven over and over again both in the lab and in controlled track testing) is to improve initial pad bite, especially at higher speeds. The holes provide additional leading edges that both create higher friction as well as bring the pad up to temperature more quickly, due to a decrease in surface contact area. Another way we used to do this for qualifying in Indycars was to cut extra slots in the pad, or do both. We didn't race on drilled rotors, switching to slotted after qualifying.

Cross-drilling does have limitations for competitive use, naturally creating more stress-risers that will cause cracking to start earlier than otherwise. However, it is extremely rare for a street driven vehicle to suffer from premature cracking unless the rotors are garbage to start with. Unfortunately, most eBay and similar junk rotors sold into the aftermarket are fairly low-quality blanks that have been further compromised by sub-standard or maybe average machining techniques. Saying those rotors cracked because they were drilled doesn't really mean much, as they were headed for that same fate a little further down the road anyway. It was just sped up a bit by drilling weak rotors with improper patterns and incorrect hole chamfers.

Today, most racing competitors have gone with J-Hook or similar rotors. These have nearly the same bite as cross-drilling, without the stress-riser issue. Most drivers (the better ones at least!) scream bloody murder if plain-faced rotors are substituted without notifying them. They can 100% absolutely feel the difference. I've seen more than one pro racer run though the barriers at the end of the braking zone when he wasn't informed by the crew that the rotors had been switched back out after qualifying!

Can the average street driver feel the difference? Well, that may be a case-by-case issue. But in case I ever have to do an 80mph panic stop, I'll take mine drilled (or J-Hook) every time.

Chris

thebigjimsho
10-20-10, 02:33 AM
Somehow, that myth continues to float around the Internet. The actual purpose of cross-drilling (proven over and over again both in the lab and in controlled track testing) is to improve initial pad bite, especially at higher speeds. The holes provide additional leading edges that both create higher friction as well as bring the pad up to temperature more quickly, due to a decrease in surface contact area. Another way we used to do this for qualifying in Indycars was to cut extra slots in the pad, or do both. We didn't race on drilled rotors, switching to slotted after qualifying.

Cross-drilling does have limitations for competitive use, naturally creating more stress-risers that will cause cracking to start earlier than otherwise. However, it is extremely rare for a street driven vehicle to suffer from premature cracking unless the rotors are garbage to start with. Unfortunately, most eBay and similar junk rotors sold into the aftermarket are fairly low-quality blanks that have been further compromised by sub-standard or maybe average machining techniques. Saying those rotors cracked because they were drilled doesn't really mean much, as they were headed for that same fate a little further down the road anyway. It was just sped up a bit by drilling weak rotors with improper patterns and incorrect hole chamfers.

Today, most racing competitors have gone with J-Hook or similar rotors. These have nearly the same bite as cross-drilling, without the stress-riser issue. Most drivers (the better ones at least!) scream bloody murder if plain-faced rotors are substituted without notifying them. They can 100% absolutely feel the difference. I've seen more than one pro racer run though the barriers at the end of the braking zone when he wasn't informed by the crew that the rotors had been switched back out after qualifying!

Can the average street driver feel the difference? Well, that may be a case-by-case issue. But in case I ever have to do an 80mph panic stop, I'll take mine drilled (or J-Hook) every time.

Chris
Well, that's nice for you.

However, what I said was not internet talk but directly from Brembo at the V Driving Lab at Monticello in August. Cross drilled rotors are junk. That's all.

CTSV_Rob
10-20-10, 03:27 AM
I do not have the money. This makes me sad.

Work a little moar OT.

dvandentop
10-20-10, 10:53 AM
Chris save your breath on jimbo.

Chris__B
10-20-10, 12:56 PM
Chris save your breath on jimbo.
Using his logic, "Brembo" says that they make a lot of junk! :bonkers:

whisler151
10-20-10, 01:10 PM
Well, that's nice for you.

However, what I said was not internet talk but directly from Brembo at the V Driving Lab at Monticello in August. Cross drilled rotors are junk. That's all.

Silver-V- and I had a nice chat with the Brembo guy at the V Series Driving Lab at MSR Houston last weekend (what an awesome time). He did say that most cross drilled will crack, but there is a way they can make a good cross drilled. However, they much prefer the standard rotor or slotted.

thebigjimsho
10-21-10, 11:09 AM
Work a little moar OT.
or you can lendz me teh dough...

Silver -V-
10-21-10, 11:16 AM
The Brembo reps had admitted that a Cross Drilled rotor is feasible on a light car such as a Corvette or Indy Car as mentioned above. The issue with the CTS-V is the weight. At over 2 tons, a Cross Drilled rotor would end up getting many small cracks along the internal vanes. Brembo's solution is to create an internal support structure that allows better heat dissipation along with strength that will fight cracking along the face and internally.

The engineers were looking for longevity along with good stopping power at a low cost. That rules out Cross Drilled rotors for the 2 ton cars, slotted rotors for pad longevity and traditional rotor cast iron materials for performance. We now have very good Aluminum/Iron rotors that stop very well and last a long time on cars driven on the street.

For those of us looking for a step up, Brembo has come up with a very strong and light performance aftermarket rotor. Cadillac is using these on their V Lab cars which are seeing repeated full stops without any rotor issues. The Cadillac V lab runs the cars from 0-full speed to 0 over and over for 4 days at a time. The mechanics on site told me they haven't had one rotor failure yet. The new rotors are very durable and work well. I did hear from several of the mechanics who did recommend Hawk HP+ pads instead of the Brembo pads to reduce dust and pad adhesion after many hard stops.

Here is a photo of the new rotors, and Mechanics checking them for cracking.

http://i374.photobucket.com/albums/oo183/moth-94987/V%20Lab%2010-16-2010/P1030866.jpg

thebigjimsho
10-21-10, 11:31 AM
Argh! They're always after me lucky charms!

Chris__B
10-21-10, 01:17 PM
Here is a photo of the new rotors, and Mechanics checking them for cracking.
Maybe they should find a mechanic that can stay awake? I mean, with PhotoShop you can do some pretty cool things these days! :thepan:

I've been working with racing and performance brakes for over 2 decades. What the Brembo 'reps' say and what the engineers and metallurgists KNOW are sometimes not exactly the same. Your description, lifted right from a marketing source, is incomplete -- like most marketing materials.

For example, Brembo supplies some cross-drilled rotors to certain Mercedes-Benz models that are used on vehicles over 2 tons. The disc assembly in that picture is nearly identical to the one on the Nissan R35 GT-R (which is drilled) and the M-B E63 AMG (also drilled). All three use exactly the same attachment hardware, just like several other applications. I have a set sitting next to my keyboard right now. It is nothing new at all. Those McLaren springs are meant to keep the discs from rattling at low speeds, but owners should be aware they reduce rattle, not eliminate it. Many GT-R owners continue to report "dish rattling" sounds their cars make when going over speed bumps or upon entering shopping market parking lots.

Brembo's internal vane solution is often a rehash of the old pillar vane technology. It is done well, but far from innovative. But it does allow using one casting for both left and right rotors, which is the primary driving factor in why it is done as opposed to the better cooling curved-vane approach. On the CTS-V, however, it appears they have gone back to the 'ol tried-and-true curved vane construction. Too bad they still use an iron alloy that is not the strongest, not the longest wearing.

Also, Indycars would only use cross-drilled rotors for qualifying. We would always change to slotted before the race. A Brembo rep that claimed they are good for Indycar competition would be speaking outside of his body of knowledge.

Chris

Silver -V-
10-21-10, 02:35 PM
What seems to be glossed over here is why Brembo created these rotors for GM - Durability, Stopping Power and cost of production. Brembo could create an all alloy cross drilled rotor for these cars and even added floating calipers, and 6 piston rears. When that happens, the costs go up significantly; the durability on a street vehicle goes down. Then the normal Cadillac CTS-V owner has huge complaints about how poor the brake system holds up when driven over potholes, winter torn roads, and makes their custom wheels turn black. They will then complain about all of the noise they make from squealing and dusting.

That just won't work for the normal enthusiast driver Cadillac is targeting. They want a great performing front suspension package that doesn't make too much ambient noise, stops as well or better than anything else in its class and keeps the owners happy. The current package happens to fit those parameters at a reasonable cost of goods, and allows enthusiast drivers to buy a great performance family sedan for a cost sub-$70k. GM could charge another $10k and put the ZR-1 package on this car like they offer with the Z-06. Unfortunately, the cost of entry would keep 98% of the buyers away. To fit into the class of car they have built, there had to be compromises. I see this as an extremely small one that allows the car to have 99.8% of the benefits of a similar system with $3k rotors. The car stops as short as all others in it’s class despite it’s girth. The pads and stock rotors hold up for 20k+ miles, and now we have a choice in rotor options.

I have experienced the new rotors first hand, and they are holding up very well in extreme conditions. I could spend the money and swap out to a GM-Brembo ZR-1, Stoptech, Baer, AP or other aftermarket systems. That would only compromise the daily driver/weekend fun/track car this vehicle was meant to be. The CTS-V isn’t meant to be a racecar, it is meant to be a high performance luxury sedan at a great price.

Chris__B
10-21-10, 02:49 PM
What seems to be glossed over here is why Brembo created these rotors for GM - Durability, Stopping Power and cost of production. Brembo could create an all alloy cross drilled rotor for these cars and even added floating calipers, and 6 piston rears. When that happens, the costs go up significantly; the durability on a street vehicle goes down. Then the normal Cadillac CTS-V owner has huge complaints about how poor the brake system holds up when driven over potholes, winter torn roads, and makes their custom wheels turn black. They will then complain about all of the noise they make from squealing and dusting.

That just won't work for the normal enthusiast driver Cadillac is targeting. They want a great performing front suspension package that doesn't make too much ambient noise, stops as well or better than anything else in its class and keeps the owners happy. The current package happens to fit those parameters at a reasonable cost of goods, and allows enthusiast drivers to buy a great performance family sedan for a cost sub-$70k. GM could charge another $10k and put the ZR-1 package on this car like they offer with the Z-06. Unfortunately, the cost of entry would keep 98% of the buyers away. To fit into the class of car they have built, there had to be compromises. I see this as an extremely small one that allows the car to have 99.8% of the benefits of a similar system with $3k rotors. The car stops as short as all others in itís class despite itís girth. The pads and stock rotors hold up for 20k+ miles, and now we have a choice in rotor options.

I have experienced the new rotors first hand, and they are holding up very well in extreme conditions. I could spend the money and swap out to a GM-Brembo ZR-1, Stoptech, Baer, AP or other aftermarket systems. That would only compromise the daily driver/weekend fun/track car this vehicle was meant to be. The CTS-V isnít meant to be a racecar, it is meant to be a high performance luxury sedan at a great price.
Very good points! Brembo (or any other brake system manufacturer) will only supply what the car maker is willing to pay for -- and made to specifications to suit their intended market.

We have differing opinions on the "compromises" made when going to an upgraded brake system. The better ones will offer increases in all performance categories and have lower rotor wear rates as well. The only drawback is initial cost.

The ZR-1 system is not correct for the CTS-V for several reasons, mechanical and thermal balance being two of them. However, I do believe the V is a good candidate for properly engineered carbon-ceramic rotor upgrade, if enough owners would be willing to stomach the $15k or so investment. The front pad has just enough area (as has been proven on other vehicles) to make it work without requiring new calipers.

Chris

GMX322V S/C
10-21-10, 06:07 PM
...Brembo supplies some cross-drilled rotors to certain Mercedes-Benz models that are used on vehicles over 2 tons...Just curious, which models?

Chris__B
10-21-10, 07:10 PM
Just curious, which models?
Some G55's (5700+ lbs.) I've seen, but not all for some reason. I'm seeing slotted-only on the 2011 model. Maybe it is an option? Brembo's aftermarket BBK is offered in drilled for that model as well. They were OE on S65's in years past, but M-B has dropped Brembo and gone back to dual Ate calipers on the S63 and S55, from the ones we've seen. I believe there might be another one, but no time to look it up right now.

Chris

Lindsay Cadillac Parts
10-28-10, 01:42 PM
let us know how much rpl rings are for them


:yeah:

Finally have an answer on the replacement rings.....there isnt any replacement rings. these will only be sold as complete kits. GM was to originally offer these as an option and didnt want dealerships, car owners, etc possibly not doing something correctly in replacing the ring and hardware. now that GM has basically decided not to use these Brembo still has to wait for GM to completely back away from them before they can make a replacement ring (at least thats how it was told to me). give me a call to get a set on order 703-647-8670

dvandentop
10-28-10, 07:32 PM
No offense luke but that just pretty much killed any interest I had in them, i know there is alot of dumb people out there so they have to watch their ass on liability stuff but to buy a whole set again, when a set of rpl rings should be in the 3-400 range is nuts IMHO.

I have changed rotor rings on my z06 and tracked them after and no issues but i suppose there is more dumb people who would screw something up then those that know what they are doing.

I guess when someone cracks a set of these and needs to replace them let me know and i would buy the centers from you and get some rings made up myself

:cookoo:

Lindsay Cadillac Parts
11-23-10, 05:02 PM
2 SETS in stock 703-647-8670

Lindsay Cadillac Parts
12-31-10, 12:36 PM
bump!!! one set left

703-647-8670

tony.m6
03-22-12, 12:23 PM
I just bought a front pair oem rotors for my v 2010 from my cadillac dealership with my discount $510