: Favorite muscle cars ever?



I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-24-10, 12:56 AM
(first off, let me preface this by saying that I'm very surprised this hasn't come up earlier)


OK, here we go:

1970 Dodge Charger R/T (specificially the '70, as it's got my favorite grille and the later style of tail lights)

1971 Plymouth 'Cuda

1970 Dodge Challenger R/T

1969 Chevrolet Camaro SS396

1970 Chevrolet Chevelle SS454

1969 Ford Mustang Mach 1/ Boss 429

1970 Buick GS455/GSX

1970 Oldsmobile 442 W30

1966 Chevrolet Chevelle SS396

1977-79 Pontiac Trans Am

1987-93 Ford Mustang LX 5.0 Coupe (I guess the GT is good too, but I prefer the coupe, not the hatchback)

1987-92 Pontiac Trans AM GTA

1993-97 Chevrolet Camaro Z28

2010 Chevrolet Camaro

2011 Ford Mustang

Those are the major ones, I don't think I missed anything super important. I'm sure I'll think of something later.

greencadillacmatt
09-24-10, 01:40 AM
It isn't a muscle car unless approved by Dr. Olds!

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/DrOlds.jpg

ThumperPup
09-24-10, 01:45 AM
it seems like everyoen misses or forgets about the Plymouth Super Bird
i know that if anyone where to ever ask me or one of my family members what there favorit Mucle car was is would be the 70 SuperBird we have one well Dad has it it was his first car ever
and its the one that he would never let anyting happen to ever

Night Wolf
09-24-10, 02:08 AM
It isn't a muscle car unless approved by Dr. Olds!

http://i404.photobucket.com/albums/pp126/greencadillacmatt/DrOlds.jpg

I ws going to say.... then you posted..... so x2!

oddly, it's the only muscle car I actually have interest in owning.

Aron9000
09-24-10, 02:09 AM
From a design standpoint, its the 1968 Dodge Charger.

Overall, I think the 1970 Z28 Camaro, with the LT1 350 engine, 4 speed manual, is my all around favorite. The styling has a hint of Italian flair, the LT1 is lighter than the big block V8 and makes almost as much power anyways, and the handling is sublime for a domestic car of that era.

Special mention to the 1973-74 SD 455 Firebird, one last great gasp of greatness for Pontiac.

I know they aren't a muscle car, but I love the C2 Corvette, especially the convertibles.

As for what sticks closest to the muscle car formula/ethos, its the Chevy Nova. Get the smallest, cheapest, lightest car, and stuff the biggest possible motor in it. Handling, luxury, brakes, all be damned, none of that stuff makes you faster.

As far as fuel injected era muscle goes

1986-87 Buick Grand National/T-type. Love all the weird ways you could option these, could make it look like a granny mobile with pillowed seats, column shift, vinyl top, chrome trim, with the hot turbo motor under the hood.

1989 Turbo Trans Am
1986-92 Trans Am GTA
1992 Firehawk
1986-92 IROC and Z28 Camaro
1998-02 Camaro Z28/SS
1998-02 Firebird Formula/Trans Am
1994-96 Impala SS, Roadmaster, Fleetwood(okay maybe the last two aren't muscle cars but they were as fast as your 90's Mustang GT)
03-04 Mustang Cobra, supercharged!!!
03-04 Mustang Mach I
96-02 Mustang Cobra

And finally, the Dodge Viper, any year. Such an awesomely vulgar machine.

Submariner409
09-24-10, 07:52 AM
In the beginning, 1958 Chevrolet Impala 348 tri-power, later Chevy 409s, 1964 Pontiac GTO 389 (1965/6 styling was better), various mid/late-60's Oldsmobile Cutlass, 1965 Chevrolet Chevelle Malibu SS 327 (350 hp, 4 spd, posi), 66 Chevelles (396/454), various Mustangs, Dodges (1964 440 Sixpack).........and the 1967 Corvette Sting Ray hardtop 427/435 hp (actually about 480 real hp). AC Cobra 429. A real Ford GT40.

68 - 69 saw the beginnings of smog pumps, emissions controls, weird vacuum spark timing modification - all of which took a considerable edge off performance. It got so bad in the 70's that a 440 engine was down to 180 hp. Just about anything from 1970 to just a few years ago might look like a muscle car, but wasn't. The last mid-70's Olds 455's were so strangled by emissions guesses that they couldn't get out of their own way and absolutely drank gasoline.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-24-10, 08:00 AM
Oh yeah, totally forgot the Buick Regal T-Type, Grand National and GNX. Buick's most badass cars ever (yes they were quicker than the '70 GS455) and arguably the most badass American made cars in the '80s. I actually saw an '86 T-Type this summer at a car show with the wire wheels, all the chrome, and the pillow top velour bench seat. It was awesome!

Can't forget the Shelby GT500 as well. Doesn't matter if it's a '67-68 or '69-'70. Badass.

EcSTSatic
09-24-10, 08:48 AM
My favorites off the showroom were the 60's Mopars but I never owned one. I did have the luck of owning a '65 ragtop GTO with the 4spd, Tri-power 389. I also had a Kaw 750 2-stroke triple that could beat this Suzuki

http://pages.prodigy.net/fremin/Garage/images/cars/titan.jpg

drewsdeville
09-24-10, 09:19 AM
Not from the stereotypical muscle era, but was definitely muscle for it's day...

1957 Olds Super 88 with the J-2. Many claim that the Pontiac GTO was responsible for the start of the muscle car wars, but I personally think it was the Super 88.

Ranger
09-24-10, 10:39 AM
My favorite is sentimental. First car I bought after discharged from the Army and the only new car I ever bought. I sure do miss it.
http://www.oldride.com/imgitem/19663094727800_tmp_org.jpg http://www.oldride.com/imgitem/45169067195100_tmp_org.jpg

Bro-Ham
09-24-10, 11:12 AM
Muscle car? I vote for GreenCadillacMatt's new monster Coupe deVille HO 350. :)

Night Wolf
09-24-10, 11:23 AM
No love for AMC...

http://media.ebaumsworld.com/picture/air7548/69amx.jpg

As for "muscle" cars out of what is typically considered the muscle car era...

I would have to go with the 1st generation Hudson Hornet, so advanced for it's day... and won races with an I6 :)

http://consumerguideauto.howstuffworks.com/rearview-mirror-1951-hudson-hornet-cga.htm

http://storage.imageloop.com/content/287324c4-c7e4-1d84-b7e8-001422b1aff2/rw506h380

It is a car that I would actually really enjoy restoring.

Original Nascar - born from bootleggers

hOvRsMX6o5g

and, of course:

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gdwriter
09-24-10, 01:09 PM
From a design standpoint, its the 1968 Dodge Charger.:yeah:

I've loved the '68 Charger R/T ever since I saw the triple black 440 burned rubber in Bullitt.

http://img207.imageshack.us/img207/6076/capture57up6.jpg

I like pretty much any GTO through 1969, with 1967 and '68 being my favorites. Also any Impala SS, but especially a '61 bubbletop or a '69 SS427:

http://image.superchevy.com/f/32385462+w750+st0/sucp_1004_06+1961_chevy_impala_ss+rear_view.jpg

http://lugnuts.org/images/DSCF0014.JPG

And though not technically muscle cars, I'd love to have a '65 Buick Riviera GS with a dual-quad Nailhead, a '69 Pontiac Grand Prix SJ with a 428 or a '70 Chevrolet Monte Carlo SS454:

http://assets.hemmings.com/story_image/39280-500-0.jpg

http://assets.hemmings.com/story_image/39282-500-0.jpg

http://image.automotive.com/f/features/9083817+pheader/0602_hppp_01z+1969_potiac_grand_prix_sj+front.jpg

http://www.greene-shipman.org/70MonteCarloSS454FPS.jpg

A Camaro is more in the pony car class, but a '70 Z28 LT-1 with the Rally Sport package would be a lot of fun and as somebody once said, "It looks like it was designed by an Italian on a good day."

http://www.allfordmustangs.com/forums/attachments/mustang-lounge/61701d1235011871-what-your-favorite-non-ford-z28doug.jpg

And I love the 1984-87 Grand National for it's tire-shredding power in an era when such performance was hard to find, its bad-ass all blackness and that of all things, it was a Buick.

Night Wolf
09-24-10, 01:27 PM
I like the Riv's with the vertical hideaway headlights such as the one Gary posted.... totally cool!

ben.gators
09-24-10, 02:15 PM
What about Gran Torino?

Sevillian273
09-24-10, 05:24 PM
^^Funny you should mention that. I vote 1972 Grand Torino GT. Second would be a DeTomaso Pantera but its really not a muscle car per se.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-24-10, 05:50 PM
If we're talking '50s cars, then the '57 300C and '58 Plymouth Fury were great. Maybe not "muscle cars" per se, as they weren't cheap nor small, but they were some of the fastest american made cars back then. Beautiful too.

Drew, tell us more about this '58 Oldsmobile.

orconn
09-24-10, 07:36 PM
Not from the stereotypical muscle era, but was definitely muscle for it's day...

1957 Olds Super 88 with the J-2. Many claim that the Pontiac GTO was responsible for the start of the muscle car wars, but I personally think it was the Super 88.

The 1957 Ols with the J-2 carburator set up were fast indeed for their day. My mother had a '57 98 Holiday four door hardtop, which I used when the Mercedes 300D sedan was a little too sedate for a Friday night date! While the 98 Holiday was a much heavier car than the lighter 88s it was still quick for the fifties. I don't remember if the j-2 pack was an option on the base 88 coupe, but that car would have been the precursor of the "Muscle Car" being the lightest and cheapest model in the '57 Olds lineup. The Super 88 was Olds middle model in the line up being considerably fancier than an 88 but on a shorter wheelbase with less rear over hang (and not as luxurious) as the 98s. It seems to me that they all had the same engines, the only option being the J-7 pack carburator set. The Super 88 was considered a great car for teenage high scool boys to aspire to, especially with the added oomph of the J-2 pack.

Driving the 1956 Mercedes 300D sedan (Adenauer Mercedes) with its' 3 iter straight six (and its' downright elephantine weight) was like driving a pre-war car (albeit a very nice pre-war car) in comparison to the '57 Olds (which also was much faster than my dad's '56 Fleetwood). The Olds, being that it was a four door hardtop, made it by far the prefered car for going to the "Sock Hop" on Friday night and then on the ice cream parlor for something to eat afterwards. All that open ventilation was welcome in the Summer since very few cars of the fifties had air conditioning. The smell of Spring, Summer and Fall (particularly burning leaves) was a poor trade off for air conditioning!

The dfference

drewsdeville
09-24-10, 08:34 PM
If we're talking '50s cars, then the '57 300C and '58 Plymouth Fury were great. Maybe not "muscle cars" per se, as they weren't cheap nor small, but they were some of the fastest american made cars back then. Beautiful too.

Drew, tell us more about this '58 Oldsmobile.


'57 Olds, though the J-2 was available through '58.

The J-2 was a 371ci Olds V8. It had 3 2-barrels. The car normally ran off one carb, the center one that was hooked up to the throttle linkage. The other two opened via vacuum when half throttle or more was given. They were either fully open or closed, there was no inbetween.

312hp and 415 ft/lbs. Back in '57, it was the car to beat. The J-2 was discontinued in '58 unfortunately, probably due to manufacturing costs.

Sandy
09-24-10, 08:41 PM
I always had to be different, (and better)!

1970 AMC (American Motors Corporation) Rebel "Machine" !
390, 4-Speed - 4:11 gears, Trac Control Dual straight-thru pipes

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/1970_AMC_Rebel_Machine_Muscle_Car-RWB.jpg

HERE, READ ABOUT THEM;

http://clubs.hemmings.com/clubsites/classicamx/RebMachArticle/RebMachineArticle.html

CTSV_Rob
09-24-10, 10:23 PM
Boss 302 Mustang (Something about a 302 CI with a 1050 CFM double pumper is cool)
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b0/BOSS302BCJW.JPG/300px-BOSS302BCJW.JPG

1969 Pontiac GTO with the Judge Package
'Here come da' Judge' . (This one is for you Roo)
http://www.ultimatecarpage.com/images/large/908/Pontiac-GTO-Judge-Ram-Air-III_1.jpg

The-Dullahan
09-24-10, 11:46 PM
I'm enigmatic in that muscle Cars have never really been so amazing to me, when there were far better looking luxury Sedans rolling around in the same Eras. Of course, I have to stand up and say I appreciate My father's '67 Chevelle with the 454, my cemetery friend's GTO with the 400 and Lady Victoria would kill me if the Violet '67 Hemi Charger was not mentioned...

Why Violet? Because she likes the colour and because it can't be Orange...Chargers must NEVER be any shade of Orange...

That being said, and in true Pikey Spirit, I adore Rat Rods...and Steam Surreys...

Aron9000
09-25-10, 01:21 AM
I have a real soft spot for the 60's Impalas as well. Especially 65-68, just awesome cars, and you could still get one with bucket seats, center console, and a clutch pedal if you so desired.

I really like the lines of the sport coupe, with that real long swept back rear window. The guy at our cruise night has 1966 sport coupe, 427, bucket seats, 4 on the floor, silver on red vinyl. Its really been over-restored and is pure sex on wheels.

77CDV
09-25-10, 01:54 AM
Not a fan of the muscle cars, but if pressed, I choose the 1965 Pontiac 2+2 (or any of the intermediate to full-sized 1965-1968 Pontiac performance models). They're actually the only Pontiacs I like.

Stingroo
09-25-10, 03:00 AM
Oh Rob, you tug at my heart. My uncle has a '69 GTO Judge that's orange. I want it sooooooooooooooooo badly. One of the coolest cars EVER.

Submariner409
09-25-10, 10:53 AM
Something else we tend to forget...........Google "1957 chrysler 300 deries" and go back and forth from 300B to 300J.

orconn
09-25-10, 12:22 PM
The "300" series Chrysler cars of the mid-fifties were really impressive cars, as were the "rocket engined" Oldsmobiles. But these cars were not priced to be affordable to young middle class buyers. The "muscle cars" of the 1960's were designed to be relatively cheap, high powered cars that could be bought by young guys with lower level jobs .... that was the real reason behind the marketing of the muscle cars. The light weight, stripped bodies with large (but cheap) engines was also to keep prices down while supplying a fast car at a cheap price.

Cars like the Chrysler 300s and the J2 Olds (and Starfires, Grand Prixs and Buick Wildcats) were meant to appeal to the older middle aged buyer who wanted a sleeper with both performance and the luxury frills. There have been fast cars of this variety procuced for the more affluent "upper middle classes" since at least the 1930's. And with the Ford V-8s this kind of car was available to the middle income buyer (and bank robbers) as well. High performance cars, at cheap enough prices, for young blue collar guys just getting started was the essence of the "Muscle Cars" of the last half of the sixties and ealy seventies .... and why they are so much beloved by "baby boomer" males today!

93DevilleUSMC
09-25-10, 05:37 PM
Honestly, I'd love a 1970 Olds 442, 1970 Chevelle SS454, or 1970 Ford Torino. Beyond that, I'd love to have any of the original muscle cars.

The-Dullahan
09-26-10, 12:43 AM
Oh Rob, you tug at my heart. My uncle has a '69 GTO Judge that's orange. I want it sooooooooooooooooo badly. One of the coolest cars EVER.

See, that's different. CHARGERS can't be orange, because Lady Victoria and I, like all the good little immigrant kids from the north, are not fans of Redneckery such as "The Dukes of Whatever" and honestly lost a few seconds from our lives every time we see a charger turned into...that...

Also, most cars still look better black, even when the owner isn't home, so it's sitting in the driveway and you drive past at 45 mph in a 5mph zone. Thusly, I took the time to get you a photo today.
http://i241.photobucket.com/albums/ff29/The-Dullahan/100_0861.jpg?t=1285476146

Destroyer
09-26-10, 10:51 AM
I love all the musclecars. The strange thing is that it is the Chevy musclecars I like the least. I think it is just over exposure. My absolute favorite from a styling standpoint is either a '69 Mustang fastback in either Mach or Boss attire or the Plymouth Cuda. Love the Torino's, Charger's, GTO's and obviously Cutlass/442.

Night Wolf
09-26-10, 11:55 AM
See, that's different. CHARGERS can't be orange, because Lady Victoria and I, like all the good little immigrant kids from the north, are not fans of Redneckery such as "The Dukes of Whatever" and honestly lost a few seconds from our lives every time we see a charger turned into...that...



I take it "Lady Victoria" is the girlfriend?

V-Eight
09-26-10, 01:07 PM
General Lee = awesome

The-Dullahan
09-26-10, 04:14 PM
General Lee...If ever I see one of those...

May The Gods have mercy is ever I see one of those...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-26-10, 06:05 PM
Yeahhhh.....Ok.....


The general Lee was cool and all, but FWIW, I think the 68-70 Chargers look best in black. Maybe it's because whenever they have a role in a major movie, they're in a dark color, or maybe it's because the car it's self looks so badass and mean, but they definitely look best in black.

Submariner409
09-26-10, 08:16 PM
Factoid: Too bad that, with 3 exceptions, none of you had the opportunity to walk into a car dealership and sit in, much less order from the "black book", a brand new, 4 miles, muscle car from 1956 - 1970. Sticker price: $2700 - $3400, + or -.

This guy wrote the book on Olds 455 modification.

The-Dullahan
09-27-10, 12:18 AM
I thinkl just about every car ever made looks best in black. I can't think of any that don't offhand.

Submariner409
09-27-10, 08:13 AM
I thinkl just about every car ever made looks best in black. I can't think of any that don't offhand.

:sneaky: 1956 Mercedes Benz 300SL (gullwing): Silver.

johnny kannapo
09-27-10, 01:20 PM
Although not quite a muscle car but definatly a hi-po-luxo cruiser I sold this very car in 1996 that I had owned since 1987 & I bought for $200 w/o engine & trans. in Marin County. Ca. I found this picture recently on craigslist & the guy I sold it to is offering it for $9995. I sold it to him for $5000 to get out from under a couple of credit cards back then.


http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz183/billytheshoe/cammer/my%20car/19c9dba6.jpg
http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz183/billytheshoe/cammer/my%20car/3m43p03l95Q15P85Re9ak7b3b2fc362ee13.jpg
http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz183/billytheshoe/cammer/my%20car/3n13k93ma5Tb5Qc5P79akbccccf4a4c9419.jpg

I completely stripped this rust free car down to bare metal & Epoxy primed & urethane coated it the original black.

All NOS parts in the 425 nailhead & 400 trans. out of a 66' Riv GS a 2-4's intake came with the car & was working but drive-ability was insane but had tons of low end TQ and found a Q-jet intake that was the ticket.

Yes, I and kicking myself in the ass but still is unreasonable to own this car again being a dead horse in the winter. Although not a total restoration it turned out pretty dang good. This car looks the same as the day I sold it in 1996. Here is a bad photo of a photo when this car had fresh paint in 1990
http://i826.photobucket.com/albums/zz183/billytheshoe/d0755fa0.jpg

orconn
09-27-10, 01:40 PM
:sneaky: 1956 Mercedes Benz 300SL (gullwing): Silver.

I agree the Mercedes 300 SL looks best in German racing silver.

While looking good in black, I think the Jaguar E-type looks best in light blue metallic, or dark grey metallic. The E-type convertible looks best in British racing green with "tobac" (dark tan) interiors. Most Ferraris look best in red or "amaranto" (dark red). But I have to agree that, by and large, even ugly cars look better in black! Let's face it a Japanese "dragon" hearse looks ludicrous in white!

HAZZARDJOHN
09-27-10, 01:43 PM
Yeahhhh.....Ok.....


The general Lee was cool and all, but FWIW, I think the 68-70 Chargers look best in black. Maybe it's because whenever they have a role in a major movie, they're in a dark color, or maybe it's because the car it's self looks so badass and mean, but they definitely look best in black.

First off, the General Lee is a great looking car. If you don't understand the point of the General Lee's paint scheme you need to watch the first five episodes of the Dukes of Hazzard. The show turned into a cartoon after this, but before it was a realistic portrayal of the good parts of the rural south in the seventies. People fighting corrupt government, moonshiners, stock cars (which is what the General lee is) southern hospitality etc. It is a brilliant period piece. Reading anymore into it than that is ignorant.

Secondly, the Second gen Charger, which is My favorite car period, looks best in B5 blue. My Ideal car is a 1969 Charger R/T SE with a 440 magnum (Hemi cars are too rare to want to drive regularly) B5 blue with a white R/T stripe.

http://www.americandreamcars.com/1969charger021007.jpg

~HJ

orconn
09-27-10, 02:53 PM
It is interesting that the fender line on the '69 Charger is being copyied as an accent on so many cars today.

I agree that his model Charger was one of the better looking Chrysler products of all time. But as I have said before, my father-in-law had a '69 Charger that I used when I visited with my family, and I can't forget how the car drove. It was maybe a little better than the sleds of the period, but certainly not a standout and not something I'd want to drive everyday. But my wife's father loved that car and kept it well into the '90s only getting rid of it when he could no longer drive!

HAZZARDJOHN
09-27-10, 03:22 PM
It drove like a muscle car. it went well in a straight line. I have driven many over the years and I think they are pretty good for the time. I also grew up in a chevelle family, so I can compare it to it's more successful competitor well. I think the charger was a better built car. The panels and interior materials just seem to be a finer quality. The torsion bar suspension and the unit construction make them a very solid feeling car compared to say a Chevelle of similar vintage. The down side is the leaf sprung rear end. but it is not like there was anything that great for suspension in an american sedan back then. The Cok bottle shape, the hideaway headlamps (which I have a weakness for) and the limitless options make it one of the more unige and sexy cars of the day. Not to mention Mopar owned the power game, it is just too bad that they sold so few of them. I believe they sold about 70K chargers in 1969. They sold well over 200K camaros in the same year. That is why they are rare and more valuable. I've seen some sexy camaros and chevelles over the years, but when you go to as many car shows as I do, you get burned out on them.

~HJ

gdwriter
09-27-10, 03:54 PM
I've driven a few second-generation Chargers doing classic car inspections and the only serious flaw in the driving experience is the completely lifeless power steering, a common weakness on Sixties cars in general and Mopars in particular. I think the ones I've driven were a 318 and a couple of 383s, so I've never gotten the pleasure of driving a 440. The only other issue I have with them is they feel so freakin' wide with that flat hood, much more so than my Impala, even though mine is a full-size car.

It wouldn't surprise me if the Bullitt Charger did not have power steering or in prepping the car for the chase scene, they did some work on it. I can't imagine Bill Hickman maintaining such impressive control of that car (other than slamming into the camera at one point, but that's a cool part of the realism of the chase) without any feel for what the front wheels were doing.

HAZZARDJOHN
09-27-10, 04:01 PM
The bullit chargers according to most of the people at DC.com, have documented that two of the cars were R/t's so they would most likely have factory power steering. The third was not but it was only used for ending.

Submariner409
09-27-10, 04:12 PM
[QUOTE=gdwriter;2374254].....................the only serious flaw in the driving experience is the completely lifeless power steering, a common weakness on Sixties cars in general and Mopars in particular./QUOTE]


Gary, Back when I ordered my 65 Chevelle Malibu SS 327/350 I did a few test drives before thumbing through the option/delete book. The Chevelle P/S was exactly as you say: Like driving a loose marshmallow. I did the P/S delete and loved it - BUT it took two men and a small boy to steer the thing in heavy traffic or a parking situation - my ex- hated the car. Absolutely hated it. (No A/C, either.) So she drove a wuss Volvo wagon :sneaky:.

dkozloski
09-27-10, 04:27 PM
1957 Chrysler 300C with a four speed pont-a-mousson transmission. Only 18 were built.

Submariner409
09-27-10, 04:34 PM
1957 Chrysler 300C with a four speed pont-a-mousson transmission. Only 18 were built.

..........when did Chrysler/Dodge start the "pushbutton" automatic with the gear buttons on the left dash ???

orconn
09-27-10, 05:20 PM
..........when did Chrysler/Dodge start the "pushbutton" automatic with the gear buttons on the left dash ???

Chrysler introduced their button activated "pushbutton" dash mounted automatic transmission gear selector in the 1956. But I remember they had a dash mounted lever activated auto trans selctor in 1955? Does anyone elso remember the lever selector?

gdwriter
09-27-10, 06:23 PM
Gary, Back when I ordered my 65 Chevelle Malibu SS 327/350 I did a few test drives before thumbing through the option/delete book. The Chevelle P/S was exactly as you say: Like driving a loose marshmallow. I did the P/S delete and loved it - BUT it took two men and a small boy to steer the thing in heavy traffic or a parking situation - my ex- hated the car. Absolutely hated it. (No A/C, either.) So she drove a wuss Volvo wagon :sneaky:.Did your Chevelle have a heavy-duty suspension? I've read several articles that complained about the Chevelle's mushy handling. A recent Hemmings Muscle Machines feature on a '66 Impala SS (427 I believe) praised its ride and handling as approaching contemporary levels in contrast to a Chevelle they had driven recently.

Other than replacing the power steering pump and hoses, the power steering in Betty is OEM. I don't know if the pump has anything to do with feel, but it's never felt like steering through Novocain. Nor did the '64 Impala I learned to drive in (but the steering in the '84 Celebrity my parents had was completely lifeless).

My brother-in-law has a '55 Olds 88, and it doesn't have power steering either. It's a bitch to park, but once underway, it steers beautifully and doesn't feel heavy at all.

dkozloski
09-27-10, 06:39 PM
I had a 1960 Chevy El Camino with a 350HP 348 that would run the quarter at 102MPH in 14 sec flat. It had no power steering but all you had to do was have it moving a little bit and it steered just fine when parking. My mom had no trouble driving it.

The guy I sold it to got in it drunk, took the foot feed to the floor and exploded the flywheel. His foot was severed from his leg at the ankle. The dashboard and windshield were shredded.

Submariner409
09-27-10, 06:49 PM
Did your Chevelle have a heavy-duty suspension

Yup - "heavy duty" suspension and 7.75/14 Wide Oval Firestones. Still sucked in anything but a a straight line. Had to put Air Lifts in the rear springs to keep the rear on the ground in 1st and 2nd. Even with a 3.31 Posi, two 60# bags of sand in the trunk in winter.

orconn
09-27-10, 07:21 PM
You got it, Sub, without power steering it's important to turn the wheel when the car id slightly moving. Takes a little forsight, but works fine. In my experience cars without power steering have better road feel than those with power steering. I learned to drive on a 1953 Ford Customline 2 door sedan with a V-8, stick and no power steering. Ford's didn't have power steering until 1954, but no problem, once mastered stick and regular steering were second nature .... made switching to a Jag XK 120 as snap!

Submariner409
09-28-10, 06:17 PM
.... made switching to a Jag XK 120 as snap!

That 4-spoke steering wheel (same on my 140) would tear your hands off if you ever let go in a turn.............

Aron9000
09-29-10, 01:40 AM
^Holy backwards tach there Batman!!!!

Submariner409
09-29-10, 10:41 AM
^Holy backwards tach there Batman!!!!

Yeah, that ^^^^ -- and look at the redline; 5500rpm doesn't seem like much for a DOHC inline 6, but the crankshaft alone was as big as your 1991 Deville ! The sucker had an incredible stroke and no bore. At 5000 the pistons were swapping holes but the exhaust note, with dual straights, was pure heaven.

Valve adjustments (solid cam followers): warm up engine. Remove cam covers. Feeler gauge all 12 follower gaps (rotate engine to proper gap all 12 times). Remove the cams. Replace the cam follower cap shims with new shims of the proper thickness. Put it all back together. Warm it up again and track down the inevitable one loud valve. :banghead: (orconn can verify this little bit of Jag lore.)

I really, really wish I had some pics of my wayward sports car years - but they all faded out and lost the dye colors years ago. Color pics in 56 didn't last like today's dyes. I'd have been better off shooting B&W.

Night Wolf
09-29-10, 09:41 PM
It drove like a muscle car. it went well in a straight line.
~HJ

Most wheeled objects do.

Some of the e30 folks delete power steering claiming better road feel, I was thinking about it as my steering is very light but I am going to first swap in the e36 rack and see how it feels after that.

Destroyer
09-29-10, 11:17 PM
Yeahhhh.....Ok.....


The general Lee was cool and all, but FWIW, I think the 68-70 Chargers look best in black. Maybe it's because whenever they have a role in a major movie, they're in a dark color, or maybe it's because the car it's self looks so badass and mean, but they definitely look best in black.Chargers look good in any color! I prefer the dark colors as well. Black, grey, dark green and brown are my favorites.

Stingroo
09-29-10, 11:32 PM
Sorry. Go ManGo or GTFO.

Aerobatix
02-01-11, 12:36 PM
Here's my favorite!

1970 Buick GSX Stage-1 4-speed

http://gallery.me.com/sarlan/100084/IMG_6783/web.jpg?ver=12914271550001

It's sitting in the garage under a cover. Original Stage-1 GSX with factory 4 speed. Has a correct stock IRON head Stage-2 engine now that was dyno tested at 534hp/558ft.lbs.

DouglasJRizzo
02-01-11, 01:48 PM
Most of the vehicles that I like don't really qualify as outright performance cars, but possess enough punch to run with the pack.

1971 Ford Thunderbird 429
1968 Buick Riviera GS
1970 Cadillac Eldorado
1970 Olds Toronado GT
1974 Pontiac Grand Am

I prefer my speed to be discrete.

brougham_geezer
02-01-11, 04:06 PM
1968 Hurst/Olds (Possibly the best looking muscle car.)
1969 Hurst/Olds
1970 Chrysler 300-Hurst
1971 Riviera GS (console shift)
1972 Riviera GS (console shift & factory sunroof)


And then the four-speeds:
1970 Buick GS Stage 1 (Aqua Mist... or any shade of brown!)
1970 Buick GSX (Stage 1)
1962 Belair Bubble Top 409
1962 Pontiac Catalina 421 Super Duty
1969 GTO Judge Ram Air IV (Carousel Red, please)
1971 Grand Prix Hurst SSJ
1973 Buick Gran Sport Stage 1
1970 Oldsmobile 442 W-30

And the Cliche:
1970 Chevelle LS-6

Nutz
02-01-11, 07:42 PM
Favorite really old Muscle (Black Widow):
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT4J5TQPQlC4MIMe65-01am6579McZxlapd3VnkCx6UvNAR2xy5


Favorite old muscle (69 Hurst'Olds):
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQed_GXIXFISwp5kygcreaFLNF9Yz155 MaLZqNw2nXJ5ZQ8GuWl

My favorite modern muscle (87 GNX):
http://t3.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQWAapqtwXInJqrvwmdNY_dZNuHv9ahj eQZ9W7N4eiwhht9RQq-_w

Favorite new muscle (Ford Racing Super Cobra Jet):
http://t0.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcSvI753D_mip-ylX0Fd9U8L0yPBRZfD9DpYq6o9ZcZztbYm24mh

My other favorite new muscle (Street Legal):
http://t1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcT3KNDDDLbRnDmlhXr-19FiTjqKiup6MSLeigpg9SWtFNTdbnntNA

DouglasJRizzo
02-01-11, 08:12 PM
I nearly forgot!

1971 Buick Riviera GS - I had one in cascade blue.
1973 Riviera GS Stage 1. Unique!
1967 Thunderbird - Q code 428.

orconn
02-01-11, 08:25 PM
I nearly forgot!

1971 Buick Riviera GS - I had one in cascade blue.
1973 Riviera GS Stage 1. Unique!
1967 Thunderbird - Q code 428.


Did the 1967 Thunderbird - Q code 428 have any modifications to the stering or suspension, or was it just a bigger engine in a basically standard car? I ask this because I had a lesser engined '67 Thunderbird that, while nicely designed and assembled, handled like Jello on a saucer! I would think a much more powerful version would have been really lethal for its' owner!

DouglasJRizzo
02-01-11, 11:05 PM
There was a "handling suspension" option for Thunderbird. My Z code (390 Thunderbird Special) '67 has it. So does my 429 powered 71 Thunderbird and 460 powered 76.

Ford never did anything to the Thunderbird during the 60s and 70s such as Buick did with Riviera - like a "GS" version - but Ford did have performance options on the option list. "Handling Suspension" was Ford-speak for larger front sway bar, rear sway bar, firmer shocks/springs and HD brakes and better tires, radials on the 67 and 71 (bias was std back then) and larger sized radials on the 76.

E3DaMeX
02-01-11, 11:16 PM
1969 Ford Mustang Boss 429

Rare and a true beaut.

memphisrep
02-06-11, 04:21 PM
x3 on that one. Im still looking for one to restore right now.