: Ducky got wheels and a bumper.



Jesda
09-20-10, 05:47 PM
You know that smug, shit-eating green that you always see on the face of someone driving a Saab? The look that says "I'm driving aircraft-inspired machinery and if I had wings I could take off and go fight the cold war".

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_CIMG0055.jpg

You know what I mean. The wannabe fighter pilot douche. That's what I've become, and it feels great. :D

A couple weeks ago a girl hit me, so I took it to the body shop. The claim on her insurance was $681 for a bumper, paint, and trim.

I picked it up a week later then immediately called my all-Swedish mechanic who sold me a set of wheels and topped off the hydraulic fluid for the top.


Purchase price: $960
Maintenance, restoration, repairs, mods: $6,356
TOTAL: $7,316

If I had done the work myself, it would probably be about $2500, but I no longer have the willingness or the space to do it. Its too easy to call my mechanic, have my car picked up, and have it reappear a day later completely fixed.

Services and expenses:
State safety inspection
JVC head unit, harness
Alignment
oil pump o-ring
front crank seal
heater valve
belt
belt
belt
ball joint
cv boot
tension arm bushing
alternator bushing
voltage regulator
trans filter
trans gasket
trans gasket
fuel filter
motor oil/filter
spark plugs ngk
coolant
trans oil
vacuum lines
minor other adjustments
Ignition switch
Air mass meter
Vaccuum nipple
2 cans Freeze 12
brake assembly w/ABS
Everstart battery
brake fluid
grille
install brake assembly
thermostat
R12 AC recharge
Two front seats, switches
Redline Water Wetter
Cirrus white touchup paint
Oil and filter
Paint hood and top of door
Starter
Synthetic oil and filter
Vacuum hoses
AIC valve
Adjust boost
Clean electrical contacts
SPG wheels
Power top fluid
Several badges
New bumper, trim, paint

The AC compressor, unfortunately, has died. It needs to be replaced along with a receiver and refrigerant. That'll be for 2011.


Here's how it looks now, and some pics from driving around today in some rural areas and by the small airport nearby:
http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020022.jpg
Now has the correct badges on the trunk and hood.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020024.jpg
Shiny new bumper.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020026.jpg
Hood painted over the summer.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020029.jpg
"TURBO" -- This beautiful badge instills fear into every Dodge Caravan, Mercury Sable, and Kia Sephia that dares to challenge me. RAWR.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020030.jpg
The Dayton tires that came on it are quite old and ride harshly. I look forward to replacing them next year. I hate to part with them because there's plenty of tread.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020031.jpg
THATS A LOT OF VALVES. OH MY.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020032.jpg
Svenska Aeroplan Aktiebolaget, or "SAAB". That's Swedish for "Fighter jets lol"

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020033.jpg
I should probably clean this. The bike rack straps have left a few marks.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020034.jpg

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020042.jpg

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020045.jpg

Jesda
09-20-10, 05:47 PM
http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020052.jpg
This airport seems to be lacking in fences. Last time I hung out here was when I took pictures of the Crossfire. A helicopter showed up and hovered in place while the pilot stared me down. After a few minutes he left.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020054.jpg

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020057.jpg
Chesterfield's Spirit Airport mostly serves charter jets for businesses.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020058.jpg

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020061.jpg
Interesting way to commute.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020014~0.jpg
Went out to the middle of nowhere and got lost.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020016~0.jpg

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_P1020020~0.jpg
I'm running low on hair.



Thank you for looking at my money pit.

orconn
09-20-10, 06:01 PM
The bad news is that's alot of money. The good news is you know whats been done and what it needs in the future. As long as you are not going to sell it soon .... and Duckyy keeps that SEG on your face, not to mention "fighter pilot" fanatasies, perhaps it is money well spent! On the other hand ....

ga_etc
09-20-10, 06:22 PM
You could have had a nice SPG 900 for that money. But then you wouldn't have the experiences that you've had. Though, the money could have been (possibly better?) spent at Hair Club for Men.

drewsdeville
09-20-10, 06:36 PM
You could have had a nice SPG 900 for that money. But then you wouldn't have the experiences that you've had. Though, the money could have been (possibly better?) spent at Hair Club for Men.

Experiences? Heh, judging by that long list of repair/mods, I'd say his mechanic got more experiences out of that thing than Jesda ever will, plus $6k to play with.

:histeric:

Next time you buy a "cheap" car, bring that thing over here and you can pay my tuition.

You didn't actually pay for parts/labor on Redline Water Wetter, did you??? Is that a gag?

Jesda
09-20-10, 06:46 PM
It says "services and expenses", which includes parts, labor, items scoured from ebay, junkyards, purchased/acquired from other Saab owners, body shop, etc.
It does not say, "All of the items listed below are things my mechanic charged me for including the act of pouring Redline from a bottle into a reservoir."



I'm looking forward to finding some SPG body cladding, but that's pretty rare and probably quite expensive.

drewsdeville
09-20-10, 06:49 PM
Oh, my bad ;)

So how's that Redline workin out for ya anyway?

Jesda
09-20-10, 06:56 PM
It seems to do exactly what it claims. The needle stays put and gives the cooling system a tiny bit more capacity in stop and go traffic. I started using it a few years ago on my Nissans and Infinitis. The 90-96 Q45's cooling system arguably had less capacity than it should for extreme conditions because the engineers probably wanted to save weight. In normal weather you won't notice a difference, but in the peak of July heat it helps.

ben.gators
09-20-10, 08:52 PM
It would be more fruitful to spend a portion of that money for bosley hair restoration....:D

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-20-10, 09:23 PM
Looks great Jesda! What did the old wheels look like? What Saab are the new ones from?

drewsdeville
09-20-10, 09:24 PM
Well, even if Redline does do what it advertises, many forget that the hotter an engine runs, the more efficient it becomes. There isn't much to gain from a few degrees cooler during stop and go traffic.

A combination of the correct thermostat and working cooling fans are what's dictating the temp under all conditions. The thermostat will reduce/increase flow as it's designed and the cooling fans will come on when the extra capacity is needed. Everything works together to achieve the predetermined temp range, which is the best for expansion/contraction of materials, gaskets, and combustion for your particular engine. Adding a water wetter won't gain you a thing. It's snake oil at it's finest.

ted tcb
09-20-10, 09:36 PM
****************** Jesda's mechanic's new car ***********


http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n243/tedtcb/saab_9-5_my2010_big.jpg



All joking aside, wonderful job on bringing a unique car back to life!

My vote would be to flip your many cars over the next few years, but always
keep the Saab. You know what you've put into her, and the experience gets
richer the longer you own her.
For me, my 1971 Cutlass kept me grounded as I flipped my daily drivers, and my
1991 Miata will do the same thing.

Jesda
09-20-10, 09:38 PM
Well, even if Redline does do what it advertises, many forget that the hotter an engine runs, the more efficient it becomes. There isn't much to gain from a few degrees cooler during stop and go traffic.

The engine needs to run at the operating temperature specified by the manufacturer, not just "hotter". If the car isn't designed, from gaskets to seals to metals to run "hotter", you do -not- want it to run hot!

The biggest issue with turbos is heat soak. Until I get a front-mounted intercooler is installed, it soaks up all the heat that comes off the engine, taking away boost pressure and adversely affecting fuel economy. In stop and go driving, you don't have as much air cooling the intercooler, so you're stuck with poor acceleration and poor fuel economy until you get moving and cool down.

Some get around this problem with water-to-air intercoolers, but that introduces a new set of potential issues as a separate pump is required to move the fluid. Usually, a relocated intercooler is enough.

Additionally, modern vehicles will dial back timing, as the Q45 and almost all electronically controlled vehicles do (my 4.9 Seville didn't, but that's from another era, and that engine won't even adjust timing for poorly formulated gas), to bring temperatures down. A few degrees of heat beyond the normal operating temp is enough for the engine computer to kick in and reduce power.

There is an obvious reason why cooler temps produce better acceleration, why manufacturers use cooler operating and environmental temperatures when publishing results for marketing purposes.

As for Water Wetter, its not compatible with all types of coolant. For straight water or the green stuff, its effective. It doesn't mix well at all with German blue coolant. In racing where glycol isn't used, its highly effective. In standard 50/50 mixes, its at least good insurance. It also will not cause the vehicle to run cooler than the specified operating temperature. It simply enables surface tension to improve the transfer of heat to prevent high temps.

So no, its not snake oil. I've used it in several vehicles with positive results, and had some cars where I would prefer to not use it. You have to do your research.

Jesda
09-20-10, 09:42 PM
For me, my 1971 Cutlass kept me grounded as I flipped my daily drivers, and my
1991 Miata will do the same thing.

I've been looking at NA Miatas too. They've gotten somewhat affordable again! Might be wise for me to snag one before the next fuel spike. :cool2: I've been gawking at them since I was 12 years old.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-20-10, 09:46 PM
Yeah, if it was great for vehicles to run hotter than necessary, then the term "overheating" wouldn't be so bad.

Jesda
09-20-10, 09:50 PM
Also, German and American cars from the last few decades tend to have higher cooling capacities, so the possibility of getting too hot while idling in Drive is lower. I think the 900's cooling system works well in climates like Scandinavia, New England, the UK, or other places where these cars are popular, but in lower midwest or southern American heat, it can get overwhelmed. The age of the car doesn't help either. Fortunately, both my radiator and water pump were replaced just before I bought the car.

drewsdeville
09-20-10, 09:56 PM
The engine needs to run at the operating temperature specified by the manufacturer, not just "hotter". If the car isn't designed, from gaskets to seals to metals to run "hotter", you do -not- want it to run hot!

The biggest issue with turbos is heat soak. Until I get a front-mounted intercooler is installed, it soaks up all the heat that comes off the engine, taking away boost pressure and adversely affecting fuel economy. In stop and go driving, you don't have as much air cooling the intercooler, so you're stuck with poor acceleration and poor fuel economy until you get moving and cool down.

Some get around this problem with water-to-air intercoolers, but that introduces a new set of potential issues as a separate pump is required to move the fluid. Usually, a relocated intercooler is enough.

Additionally, modern vehicles will dial back timing, as the Q45 and almost all electronically controlled vehicles do (my 4.9 Seville didn't, but that's from another era, and that engine won't even adjust timing for poorly formulated gas), to bring temperatures down. A few degrees of heat beyond the normal operating temp is enough for the engine computer to kick in and reduce power.

There is an obvious reason why cooler temps produce better acceleration, why manufacturers use cooler operating and environmental temperatures when publishing results for marketing purposes.

As for Water Wetter, its not compatible with all types of coolant. For straight water or the green stuff, its effective. It doesn't mix well at all with German blue coolant. In racing where glycol isn't used, its highly effective. In standard 50/50 mixes, its at least good insurance. It also will not cause the vehicle to run cooler than the specified operating temperature. It simply enables surface tension to improve the transfer of heat to prevent high temps.

So no, its not snake oil. I've used it in several vehicles with positive results, and had some cars where I would prefer to not use it. Do your research.

I was not suggesting that you should overheat your engine. I think you misunderstood. Outside of overheating, warmer is more efficient. This is one of the advantages of moving to aluminum engines that disipate heat better and can run hotter temps. The northstar is a good example, being able to handle 230-240 temps. Aluminum engines are far more efficient than their iron counterparts because of this.

If someone could design an engine to run , say 500 degrees, without destructiing, the improvement in efficiency would be astronomical compared to a 200 degree.

Cooler air temps are used for publishing results because a cooler air charge is more dense, therefore containing more oxygen, therefore producing more power. Lowering cooling temp isn't going to gain you much. If you want to give it a shot, stick a cooler thermostat in there and run it in on the dyno. You won't see much change in performance, I promise. I'd be willing to bet efficiency would go down the tubes as well.

PCM's are tuned to dail back ignition timing when spark knock is detected, using a knock sensor...not the coolant temp. When spark knock is detected, timing is dailed back, which reduces performance. The tune itself has nothing to do with temp. Spark knock can be a product of overheating, but running on the warmer side of operating temp will not directly cause the PCM to reduce performance.

If you are worried about turbo heat soak, using a combination of wrap and heat shields will get you lightyears ahead of water wetter.

Jesda
09-20-10, 10:08 PM
PCM's are tuned to dail back ignition timing when spark knock is detected, using a knock sensor...not the coolant temp. When spark knock is detected, timing is dailed back, which reduces performance. The tune itself has nothing to do with temp. Spark knock can be a product of overheating, but running on the warmer side of operating temp will not directly cause the PCM to reduce performance.

No, that's not entirely true, especially not for all cars. The VH45DE, for example, has an ECU that will read the temperature and dial back timing as a preventative to help reduce temperatures. It will also make adjustments in response to knocking and detonation.

There's a reason those of us with 90-93 Qs have a custom ECU -- to work around OEM air/fuel mapping and safeguards.

And unless you modify your ECU and make other changes to compensate, a colder thermostat will simply cause your car to run rich.


Not all cars are the same. You have to do your research.

drewsdeville
09-20-10, 10:14 PM
Ah I see, that's good to know.

I'm still confused as to how the water wetter improves anything.

All debate on the watter wetter aside, if your main concern is heat soak, the exhaust is your main enemy, not the engine. As in my post above, wrapping exhaust pipes and shielding the turbo is going to net you much better results than just about anything outside of the intercooler. Exhaust temps reach much, MUCH higher temperatures than your 200 degree engine and are generally the biggest contributor to underhood temps.

Night Wolf
09-21-10, 02:28 AM
Wow! It is really looking good, and like you said - you really saved that car from an early death. Probably one of the best 900's I've seen around.

With all the money you have put into it - I still think you should do a manual transmission swap!


If I had done the work myself, it would probably be about $2500, but I no longer have the willingness or the space to do it. Its too easy to call my mechanic, have my car picked up, and have it reappear a day later completely fixed.


I never really thought of it like this.... but I wonder if this is the mentality that most people have when it comes to working on their vehicles....

...and that mechanic seems to have a good thing going with the pickup and return thing. So he drives his personal vehicle to where your car is, then takes your car, fixes it, drives it back and exchanges it for his own?

Playdrv4me
09-21-10, 02:40 AM
Wow! It is really looking good, and like you said - you really saved that car from an early death. Probably one of the best 900's I've seen around.

With all the money you have put into it - I still think you should do a manual transmission swap!



I never really thought of it like this.... but I wonder if this is the mentality that most people have when it comes to working on their vehicles....

...and that mechanic seems to have a good thing going with the pickup and return thing. So he drives his personal vehicle to where your car is, then takes your car, fixes it, drives it back and exchanges it for his own?

Yea, it's kind of a cool arrangement. This mechanic guy lives out in BFE somewhere so he drives one of his many little Saab-ettes out here, drops it in the apartment parking lot, takes Ducky with him (when drivable) and then shows up with the car a few days later.

Like a "car house-call" of sorts.

gdwriter
09-21-10, 02:40 AM
I never really thought of it like this.... but I wonder if this is the mentality that most people have when it comes to working on their vehicles...No, it is not. People have different abilities. You're obviously a skilled mechanic (and professionally trained as well).

Some, like me, not only have limited skills, but also have limited patience and dexterity. I'm forever dropping nuts and wrenches and rip up my hands trying to reach around the engine bay or under the car. I can and have done minor jobs, but for most of us, DIY car repairs are impractical.

Like Jesda, I'm fortunate that I have a trusted mechanic (although I don't get the same convenience of pickup and delivery). But I do extra work on the side, which easily pays for repairs or special projects. I'd rather work for a couple hours on a freelance project or spend an evening grading papers, then use that money to pay my mechanic, rather than spend several frustrating hours trying to do the repair myself and possibly not have it done right.

Jesda
09-21-10, 03:25 AM
I used to DIY big time in my early 20s, but now everything gets sore and I sweat like a pig. When I did the seats on the Seville I ended up with my wrist in a bandage for months until it healed.

Living in a complex with only a carport, its not safe to leave my car on jack stands with tools laying out where there's kids running around, even for a moment to run inside and grab something. There's too much liability, and it looks tacky in this kind of neighborhood. The most I'll do now is interior work or easy stuff like electronics, filters, audio, and simple R&R like a fan or belt. And that's only if the weather is agreeable. My craftsmanship is usually passable, but it pales in comparison to a serious hobbyist or a professional.

I like shops that let me bring my own parts from ebay, the junkyard, etc. As long as I check with forums for known issues and refer to my Bentley service manual for diagnostic procedures, I can save a few hundred.

I've always wanted a big 10-car garage/warehouse to store cars and play with them, but I wonder how much I'd still enjoy doing my own work even if I had the space. Paying someone is a luxury I can now afford, which is good because I don't think my body is up to the task anymore.

Playdrv4me
09-21-10, 03:52 AM
I don't think my body is up to the task anymore.

Ahh good... you finally see where I'm coming from.

Night Wolf
09-21-10, 04:19 AM
Yea, it's kind of a cool arrangement. This mechanic guy lives out in BFE somewhere so he drives one of his many little Saab-ettes out here, drops it in the apartment parking lot, takes Ducky with him (when drivable) and then shows up with the car a few days later.

Like a "car house-call" of sorts.

That is interesting.... At first thought, I question the liability involved in driving someone else' car various distances. So repairs are discussed over the phone before hand and if other problems are found during the work they are talked about? Because of the pickup and return, is the finish date/time sort of established at the start or is it a "when done" situation?

Jesda
09-21-10, 05:08 AM
All licensed shops have insurance to cover them when they drive a customer's car.


The transaction goes like this:

*ring ring*

"Hey Ducky's being dumb come get it"

'Whats it doing'

"Puppies are coming out the exhaust"

'Oh, its probably the macaroni generator. That breaks a lot on these cars, I'll pick it up this weekend'

"Cool, thx bro."

*ring ring*

'Okay I took it apart. Its actually your hot dog sensor. The total will end up being about $150. I have a used one here I can put in, otherwise its $100 more for a new part.'

"Used is good"

'I'll have it ready tomorrow.'

"See you tomorrow"


Usually I'll pay cash, but if I can't be there when he arrives I'll have him drop off the car and then I'll mail him a check. I never have to leave home or bring someone with me to drop it off, and his pickup/dropoff service is free. He's quite far, so to give him a break on gas I do cheap $20 stuff like oil changes and wheel rotation at the local ex-Chrysler dealer -- they have an awesome "buy three oil changes and the fourth is free" deal. Usually he'll park one of his 900s, 9-3s, or 9000s here. He says he has several Saabs of his own that he drives into town and leaves at customer's locations. So his vehicles are spread all over the metro area.

ted tcb
09-21-10, 11:32 AM
I'm like gdwriter ... when I earn some side money, it often goes into paying for a mechanical repair.

I have limited skills, and often break things when I try to learn on my own vehicles.
That is why I enjoy Rick's repair posts so much .... I admire mechanical aptitude and creativity.
I have some very rudimentary bodywork and detailing experience, I can change oil/belts/hoses, and
not a whole lot more.

When I tried to change the plugs on my Northstar, I realized that I didn't have the right tools to reach down
to the rear plugs ... plus, the first time I put my coil packs back in place, I lit up my dash with warning lights.
Turned out I didn't reconnect one of them.
On my old Cutlass, or my Miata, most small jobs are a breeze ... the Northstar is way above my rudimentary
skillset.

My dream would be to have a friend mentor me, and walk me through a restoration repair.
Never had the chance to grow up with a father or older brother who would teach you these things.

So, like Jesda, I find it easier/necessary to pay for my repairs.

Jesda
09-21-10, 12:12 PM
Ahh good... you finally see where I'm coming from.

A bathtub filled with gravy?

gdwriter
09-21-10, 04:15 PM
My craftsmanship is usually passable, but it pales in comparison to a serious hobbyist or a professional.Mine, too. I might have been able to install the wood door trim in Sabrina, but I would have been concerned about possibly damaging the pieces or not hooking up all the door panel controls correctly when putting it back on. And there was no way I was going to try swapping out a steering wheel with an airbag. The $150 I paid my trusted body shop to do everything (in one day) was well worth it.


When I tried to change the plugs on my Northstar, I realized that I didn't have the right tools to reach down
to the rear plugs ... plus, the first time I put my coil packs back in place, I lit up my dash with warning lights.
Turned out I didn't reconnect one of them.
On my old Cutlass, or my Miata, most small jobs are a breeze ... the Northstar is way above my rudimentary
skillset.I swapped out a number of modules and small parts on Cruella's 4.9, but I open the hood on Sabrina, see the Northstar crammed in there and say, "No frickin' way."

My dream would be to have a friend mentor me, and walk me through a restoration repair.
Never had the chance to grow up with a father or older brother who would teach you these things.[/QUOTE]I helped my dad with some car repairs, including helping him reinstall rebuilt engines in his '62 Falcon and the '64 Impala I grew up with. Unfortunately, I inherited virtually none of his skill or patience.

When Betty's engine needed a rebuild, I was fortunate to have made a friend at a car show who was recently retired, liked working on cars and had taken his '64 Impala SS and put it back together. So he did most of the work pulling and re-installing the engine. I handed him wrenches, held things in place and cleaned parts, although after he adjusted the valves on one side, I did the other (under his guidance). I understand a lot of the work involved, but I can't really do it myself.

ben.gators
09-21-10, 04:31 PM
Living in a complex with only a carport, its not safe to leave my car on jack stands with tools laying out where there's kids running around, even for a moment to run inside and grab something. There's too much liability, and it looks tacky in this kind of neighborhood. The most I'll do now is interior work or easy stuff like electronics, filters, audio, and simple R&R like a fan or belt. And that's only if the weather is agreeable. My craftsmanship is usually passable, but it pales in comparison to a serious hobbyist or a professional.

I like shops that let me bring my own parts from ebay, the junkyard, etc. As long as I check with forums for known issues and refer to my Bentley service manual for diagnostic procedures, I can save a few hundred.

I've always wanted a big 10-car garage/warehouse to store cars and play with them, but I wonder how much I'd still enjoy doing my own work even if I had the space. Paying someone is a luxury I can now afford, which is good because I don't think my body is up to the task anymore.

Yes, I have the same situation, plus my new apartment forbids any work on the cars in complex area! Fortunately there is a U-Fix facility in Phoenix, it is some sort of mechanic shop that provides space, lift, and tools and you do your own repair... That is perfect!

Stingroo
09-21-10, 04:37 PM
I wonder if any of those exist in Florida. Got a website, Ben?

ben.gators
09-21-10, 06:46 PM
I wonder if any of those exist in Florida. Got a website, Ben?

They seem to be local shops! Here is the first one Orconn introduced:
http://www.ufixitautomotive.com/Home_Page.html
This center has been reviewed and cited in many different magazines and TV reports...

The other one that I recently discovered (which seems to be smaller and cheaper) is
http://ufixitcenter.com/index.html

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-21-10, 08:21 PM
'Okay I took it apart. Its actually your hot dog sensor. The total will end up being about $150. I have a used one here I can put in, otherwise its $100 more for a new part.'


Damn that's a cheap hot dog sensor. When my HDS went out on the Benz, it was $814. Surprisingly enough, my warranty did not cover that. :hmm:

orconn
09-21-10, 08:34 PM
Not surprising that the Mercedes HDS was so expensive. First Mercedes claimed it was a "Frankfurter Sensor" which everyone knows is the height of German engineering and not to be compared which "Hot Dog Sensors in other cars. A "Frankfurter" is a superior sausage which as we Germans make the best sausage means our "Frankfurter Sensor" is of superior quality to all other weiner sensors in the world. "Deutchland, Deutchland Uber Alles!"

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-21-10, 10:08 PM
Thank god they didn't install a schnitzengruber sensor. I don't think anyone could have afford to repair that.