: Two e's short of an e30, but it followed me home... e28 5-series.



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Night Wolf
09-20-10, 04:16 AM
I really need to stop browsing Craigslist... especially when I type in something generic (BMW) rather than specific (e30) and sift through all the ads.... because then this happens...

I have an increasing... I dunno.... "thing" for 80s era BMW. The more I am around them the more I realize that in the world of "cars" - they are pretty darn hard to beat. My opinion - built extremely well, great styling, excellent ergonomics and interior design, proven and great performing drivetrains, parts are cheap and they are very easy to work on. Properly maintained - miles don't mean a thing and they perform like new.... which in many cases feels so much better then newer cars.

I have developed a basic guideline when it comes to purchasing an 80s era BMW. First is no major accidents. These cars were built to such percision and quality with a very refined unibody chassis and suspension that a major accident really messes things up. It's not that the car can't be repaired properly, it's that most times it isn't done right. Now that the value on these things is next to nothing, pretty much any collosion is fixed by Bubba and a BFH. This was the major problem of the '92 318iC I had. The car was in a major accident when it was only a few years old - enough that it was totaled. While it continued to live on, I just new things were not right. When I got it aligned, camber (non adjustable on stock suspension) was out of spec and the car didn't sit level. The new owner was informed, but didn't mind.

The other thing is rust/rot - especially underbody. I grew up in NY and delt with this junk. My '89 Oldsmobile 88 was an otherwise excellent car but it's life was cut short because of major rot. To me, trying to fix up a car with cancer rust is like trying to fix up a house with a major case of termites. Especially on older cars which already have their sea of quirks, stuck hardware and things that need to be fixed, I won't mess with rust anymore.

Other then that, I am open. If the car is major accident free and rust free - I can deal with pretty much anything else on it - drivetrain, body, interior etc... I feel like the car still has life to give if just given the chance.

Another problem with the '92 318iC was that it was the same car as Noelle.... so not only was it redundent, but I thought I would use it as a regular driver, and it shared all the same non-restored e30 quirks - most noteably a leaking top. For someone that spends all Summer in a Jeep with no top and doors, one of my major pet peaves in a car is water leaks. Not only is it annoying, but it causes all sorts of problems... plus it's annoying. I would be sitting at a stoplight when it was raining outside and I would be getting rained on inside, with the top up. This isn't the cars' fault - it's an old convertible with worn out seals etc... which is why it didn't make the best "regular car" Noelle is different - at some point her top and all seals will be new and even if it leaks - it dosen't matter.

With that said, every now and then I sorta miss the "regular car" feel... that is, a 4-door, non-convertible car. Best way to explain it was with my Oldsmobile. I liked the car and took care of it, but it was used as a "car" I didn't worry about it or was even overly picky with it. Sometimes I catch myself looking at early 90's Accords - a car that fits the "regular car" bill so well to me. They bring lots of money though and I end up telling myself what makes sense - I don't need more vehicles.

Oh, but to add a little twist to the "regular car" thing... it isn't about just getting a beater to get by, it's about a car that I actually enjoy.... and enjoy driving. For that purpose - it must be a manual transmission. Engine power dosen't matter as it is just a "regular car" as nearly any car worth a darn in the last 20 years is perfectly capable of handling US public roads.

Saw a very basic ad with no picture, sent some txt back and fourth and got a basic cell phone pic. Made arrangements to check out the car.

I rented a car tow dolly from equipment rentals on base. U-haul won't rent any trailer to a Jeep unless it has a hard top - it's dumb and makes no sense but it's their policy. Then they get specific - wanting to know what vehicle you are towing with and what you are going to tow - if the towing capacity weight on their computer dosen't jive then no go.

But the base is different... no questions asked different. The only requirement is a 2" ball, that they don't even check for.... rent a tow dolly with a vehicle not made to tow another vehicle? No problem! How about twice the towing capacity? Sure thing!

Picking up the dolly:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28006.jpg

Other things I can rent and tow with the Jeep:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28007.jpg

$20 later and filling up at the local dumpy ethanol-free Mobil

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28008.jpg

The car. Since being into e30's, I admit I've been interested in the 5-series cars as well. Every generation looked great and they offer a nice blend of fun to drive BMWness, but a bit more "regular car" then a 3-series, which has a much more "spirited" feel. The e34 (1988-1995) is nice, and was of the last BMW to have the forward hinged hood (major cool points) but it was also the car that, to me, bridged the 80s era BMW to the 90s era. It retained much of the classic styling inside and out, but grew in size and weight, and through the transition from the old school "basic" BMW to the more modern "fancy" BMW, the car lost a lot of it's million mile, fix with duct tape and bailing wire durability, same goes for the e36 in the 3-series world.

Which leaves the e28. Similar to the e30 being the 2nd generation 3-series, the e28 is the 2nd generation 5-series. The cars are closely related... to the point where the e28 feels and acts like a big e30. There is a decent following (though nothing compared to e30) and parts are still easily carried by the major companies - however due to the lower demand, not all the little specific interior parts are still made - unlike the e30 which you can still buy just about any darn part of the car. Many say the e28 along with the e30 remain of the best chassis BMW made.

To me, the e28 fits what I consider to fit the "regular car" bill perfectly. Also, when I think of the generic word "car" - certain images come to mind... cars that I consider to be timeless "car" designs. Cars that, if you watch a movie and it took place in a particular setting - one could expect to see that car. Of the European cars - the BMW e28 and MB W123 come to mind. This is the car the original M5 was based off of. For those Grand Theft Auto fans... this is also the car the Sentinel was designed after - which interesting I always considered a "regular car" in the game (yes, I grew up with the series) heck they even made the XS (M5) version in the game too!

http://www.gtavision.com/images/content/sa_cars/405_Sentinel.jpg

The car was about 40-miles away, about an hour drive on backroads. Upon arrival I had mixed feelings about the car. It was filthy inside and out and there were some things I didn't like about it. I was ready to pass on it after walking around it... but I figured I am already there I may as well check into it - if anything it'll expand my e28 knowladge.

The bad - filthy... I mean like nasty filthy. It didn't look like the car was washed in the last 10 years and it looks like someone was living inside the car and never cleaned it for 10 years.

The guy selling it was of the stereotype one may think of when "native country Georiga" comes to mind. Though the filth wasn't from him, he said he let his friend who needed a car - use it for a while. This friend didn't do anything to maintain the car, not even that, but to even attempt at keeping it clean. This friend was also a heavy chain smoker. I can't stand the smell of cigerettes - it gets me sick.

He was laid off and needed to sell the car. He said "I don't work on no BMW's..... I work on imports - like Mitsubishis". He did minor work to the car like "replaced all the hoses" - which means 2 out of the 12 or so coolant hoses. I pulled the dipstick and he said "man, that oil is probably so old from when i last changed it - my friend wouldn't do anything to this car except put gas in it and he even complained about that" It looked nasty but I replied "well, atleast there is oil in it"

He bought it from a guy 2-3 years ago who apparently actually took care of the car. He said that guy hit something that broke the oil pan - and by looking at some various cosmetic damage it appears like it jumped a large curb. When he bought it, he replaced the oil pan but said he didn't know there was a sensor insie the oil pan to hook up so now to the low oil pressure light flickers. The car also has 1 mis matched wheel - he said the area where the bead meets was smashed and no shop could put a tire on it. I asked if he still had the wheel but he said someone went onto his property when he was gone and stole it. Also, the previous owner hit a deer, which smashed up the bracing for the grille and the hood - but left the fenders, bumper and everything from the radiator back untouched. He located a hood from a junkyard and swapped it - different color, but not dented. He did some crude....crude work with a BFH to the grille support area. While looking like trash, this was just cosmetic damage - the frame of the car was unaffected and accident free. I asked if he knew when the timing belt was last changed - he said the previous owner replaced the timing belt and water pump. I later found a note inside the drivers door saying "I broke my oil pan at the gate, will pick car up tomorrow" with a phone number - that is the previous owner which I am tempted to call just to ask about the car.

The car had stuff going for it though - it ran well, nearly all power options worked including the sun roof. I asked if it leaked, he said no. I didn't see evidence of it leaking either. Of all things to work on this thing - it actually had cold A/C as well.... so I decided to take it for a drive.

The clutch was mushy, there was a banging sound from the back now and then and there was an alarming knocking sound from the front end that shook the wheel.... and the car...... yet there was something else.... something I wasn't expecting...

.... the car felt solid.... tight even. I ran it to redline in 1st and 2nd and the engine pulled strong. The suspension was tight with no bounce or slop felt. Even the steering which had worn out components (and is no rack and pinion) had that "directly connected" feeling BMW is known for, the brakes grabbed well and the car stopped nicely... I was actually in disbelief that underneath all this mess there was potential.

And that is what did it for me. I decided against getting it but took the car for a drive anyway... as I drove it I could tell that underneath all the filth and neglect, there was a solid car with plenty of life left to give - that with just a little TLC this would be a well-rounded driver. I started to see past the grime, filth and neglect... and started to see the potential.

Then there was the emotional side.... no doubt this car was one step away from the junk yard - in fact most anyone with common sense would have probably walked away.... but then there was me and this e28. I knew that this point was going to determine the fate of the car. It was either going to go to someone who would spend the time to fix it up... not a full resto, but just to fix it.... or somone was going to buy it as a "beater" and drive it into the ground for the next 6-months until it does end up at the junkyard. As I thought more into that I felt that this car deserves a 2nd chance at life and I was the person to do the job.

The color is Bronzitbeige Metallic, unlike the e30 (single stage) this car was base coat/clear coat... which by now the clear is shot. One nice thing about the Bronzit though, is that it hides imperfections very well when neglected. Of course it won't be showroom shiney... but when cleaned up - it appears to just be an "old car" and not a "pos junky beater". Another thing that I really liked was the interior colors.... underneath all the filth the car had a very nice two-tone black/tan interior - colors that age very well and still look great. It also made the interior brighter and less cold.

The seller had a clear title and with that, I was now the owner of a car that most people would be sending to the junkyard... so naturally I was excited to load it up:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28009.jpg

Night Wolf
09-20-10, 05:12 AM
The Jeep towed it well, actually I was impressed as it now has the 33's and 3" Rouch Country lift kit. Between the stiffer shocks and progressive rate springs, it handled the extra weight quite well. Brakes, which are already bad on a stock TJ then made worse with 33's were horrible. There was no "stopping" there was "gradually slowing down" Even then, I didn't use brakes much, I kept my speed low, gave myself plenty of room and (double clutch) downshifted to slow up. The AMC 4.0 I6 really is a beast of an engine. It moves ~7,000+lbs around pretty well. Since my Jeep has factory 3.73 gears with the larger tires, the gearing is a bit high which resulted in staying in 4th most the time, downshifting to 3rd for hills and sometimes shifting up to 5th on straight and level stretches, 6th was useless. I kept the speed around 40, except for open stretches of state highway where I was able to do 55 comfortably - there was no need or desire to tow this much weight any faster with the Jeep - but it didn't matter, it was doing the job well and getting me where I needed to go.

Arrived safely at home:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28010.jpg

Did I mention the filth?

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28024.jpg

Really.... I'm lost for words. All I can think of is.... just how long does it take to produce this? and how the heck can someone put gas into a car week after week and not even think twice about this? The seller did say his friend dosen't take care of his own stuff and takes even less car of other peoples stuff.

The filth was caked on

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28026.jpg

atleast this is installed withing any holes being made

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28027.jpg

It's not mis-matched... it's carbon fiber for the extra hoarsepowerz

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28029.jpg

Other than the front end, this is the only damage on the car... from this, the story of one whee being damaged beyond use and some other minor cosmetic damage under the car.... along with the broken oil pan - it sounds like the car hit or ran up on an extra tall curb such as the ones at the gate for base.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28028.jpg

So what is it??? 1987 528e with a build date of 7/86 which makes it the 2nd vehicle I've owned older than myself - exactly 1 year older then me and exactly 3 years old then Noelle. The "e" version is specifc to North America, it used the same engine as the 325e. It uses a larger version of the M20 (as in Noelle) at 2.7L but is tuned for low-RPM torque instead of high-rpm HP. The "e" refers to the greek letter "eta" which means efficiency - which is exactly what this engine is tuned for. The head, intake and exhaust manifolds are tuned for low rpm torque, not high flow. It uses a low lift cam with single valve springs as it is not a high RPM engine ("i" version has high flow head/manifolds, hotter cam and dual valve springs.). Pistons are different too. 1988 was the last year of the e28 and was also a unique year for the eta engines (both in e28 and e30) dubbed "super eta" as they were a hybrid between the eta and i with special pistons that gave them more power and a higher redline. Regular eta engines normally redline at 4500rpm and have a 5k tach... my car has the regular eta engine but has the 6k tach and redlines at 5100rpm, like a super eta. I checked the code on the ECU and it is not super eta... cluster dosen't appear to have been changed either.

The engine uses Bosch Motronic 1.0 engine management, which is a digital system - much better than the older L-Jetronic which was analog, but it is still an early system in that there is no self-diagnostic (check engine light) capabilities. 1988 super eta switched to the more advanced 1.1 system which added diagnostics and other things. My e30 uses an updated version of 1.1, which is 1.3

The numbers are interesting. the "i" version of the M20 produces 168hp and 164tq. Both produced in the mid-upper rev band. The engine comes alive above 3500RPM behaving.

The eta however is a low-rpm torque monster (for a BMW). It produces a massive 121hp @ 4250rpm but more torque then the "i" version - 170 @ 3250rpm. Basically the thing pulls well from 1500rpm and produces plenty of power by 3000rpm - which most normal driving is done by. It's the polar opposite of the "i" version - which is pretty interesting being that they are in effect, the same engine.

Now how much fun could a low-rpm engine in a BMW be? Surprisingly - very. BMW matched the gearing so well the the torque curve that it is actually fun and enjoyable to drive.... in a different way. The eta engine dosen't like to hang around redline, but it dosen't need to, the engine is simply fun to row through the gears in the low-mid rev band. It has the same Getrag 260 transmission as the e30 - shifter linkage is totally shot and worn out. The e30 has a limited slip 3.73, the e28 has an open 2.93 diff.

A familer, but different M20.... and a hack job cosmetic repair to the front end that will be getting fixed.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28035.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28037.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28040.jpg

Oh the car has a craptastic 80s alarm system... I'm gonna tear it out but it's wired into so much junk... part of it being the fuel pump, which is rigged up wth this wire that looses connection, which causes the engine to not start or stall... it shut off on me when driving and was fun to play with when trying to get going at midnight.

The rust under the battery tray is the only rust on the car... which dosen't count - it's a corrosive enviornment and a known problem.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28039.jpg

The e28 has a rearward hinged hood... tho the e34 (5-series after the e28) went back to the sweet forward hinge. I'm disapointed in the hood design as I really like the forward opening hood.

mmmmm backyard homebrew special

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28043.jpg

The car has an odd (old?) style exposed fuse box, I don't like that. Also the tail lights "wiring" is exposed too.

Speaking of lights - most all of them except the headlights didn't work... turns out the bulb contacts were corroded... a simply wire brush and they work great... amazing what a little TLC will do.

But the main selling point?

The thing is clean underneath... this car is older then I... it is 24 years old and rust free.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28011.jpg

This was a familer site... I don't think it's leaking too bad but we'll see.... but the mounts are split in half - they will be replaced.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28016.jpg

The entire shifter linkage is worn out and needs total rebuild - atleast I'm familer with how it goes together now.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28017.jpg

The car uses recirculating ball steering and has a center draglink which has 2 ball joints and connects to the pitman arm, idler arm and both tie rods. The ball joint on the idler arm is totally shot, wobbling around badly - making the clanks and shaking the wheel/car... it's pretty much not safe to drive much until it is fixed.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28018.jpg

Night Wolf
09-20-10, 05:36 AM
The car will not be getting a full everything-replacement like the e30 is getting. Actually, mechanically speaking (chassis/suspension etc...) this is in much better condition then Noelle when I first got her. This car will be getting preventative maintenace to be safe and reliable and broken things replaced - other than that it is going to be driven and used. The clunking in the back is a bad diff mount. That and the draglink are the only hard parts on the car that are broken.

As for my use with it - a "regular car". Whenever I want to have a roomyish comfortable 4 seater or not deal with a convertible... or just feel like driving it.

exhaust was messed with... thats one of those universal cats... atleast it works though and dosen't sound like crap.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28021.jpg

Now we move into the worst area - the inside.

The seats - after a deep cleaning need conditioning badly. However, out of all the vehicles I've owned, these seats actually feel like real life the most.

The car has "BMW Premium Sound" which used the 2-way speakers in the back designed to bounce the sound off the glass and the 2-way components in the front. The back left speaker isn't working - probably faulty wiring. The head unit was replaced with a cheap unit and bypassed the factory amp.... somebody ran speaker wires.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28047.jpg

headliner is the european design that really dosen't wear or fall, but needs a deep cleaning like everything else.

oh the car smells of cigerettes horribly.

It is just so nasty. The carpet really needs to be pressure washed like I did in the e30, but I imagine this being much more difficult to remove

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28049.jpg

Back seat is comfortable and supportive... it's odd.... not like lay-z-boy sink in comfortable... but just... comfortable.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28061.jpg

Door panels are upgraded much over e30... with the patch of carpet on the bottom and the center portion is padded.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28060.jpg

The amount of filth is sickening

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28054.jpg

So nasty, but it should clean up well

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28052.jpg

will be fixed

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28053.jpg

Count the layers of nasty. Both seats work except the power headrests... motors turn but no longer connected.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28066.jpg

odometer is broken and probably has been for some time.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28055.jpg

trunk is nasty and smells horrible. Lower driver side dash cover spotted

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28062.jpg

amazingly, it has a complete tool kit... worth about $100 in itself. The toolkit is shared with the e30

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28064.jpg

took door panel off to start fixing the handle

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28067.jpg

dash lights work

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28068.jpg

Night Wolf
09-20-10, 06:21 AM
The crazy thing is... nearly everything works. Even the cruise control works. All functions on the 13-button OBC works too. The backlight is bad, which will be getting replaced... but when I shined my light on the display - once I changed it to mpg I was surprised to see this:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28069.jpg

outside temp works

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28070.jpg

So I did an oil change on it with Chevron Delo 15w-40, the old stuff looked like mud. I then ran a bottle of seafoam through the intake, shut it down then let it smoke... even at night the smoke was so heavy. Since it was low on gas I went to the gas station and added a full bottle of sea foam to the gas tank then put only 8 gallons of gas in so it'll be a high concentrate.

When I filled up the gauge was on R and it said 45 miles range... 8 gallons - about $20 got it to 3/4 and not 321-mile range!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28073.jpg

This is in overdrive 5th.... maintains speed and pulls fine... it really is a low rpm torque engine.... and I was shocked at the avg mpg after crusing around a bit

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28074.jpg

That mileage was acheived with this as my average speed.... it wasn't constant speed and there were some WOT runs in there too

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28090.jpg

there is a trick with the 13-button OBC to push 1000 and 1 at the same time and it tells you how much fuel in liters is in the tank

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28090.jpg

The 3-position switch is lights off/parking/headlights. The wheel to the left is interior dimmer, the 3 position rocker is interior dome lights off/door/on, then fog light control

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28080.jpg

This is the main window lock out switch. When off it kills power to the switches also turning the lights off on them.

Interesting to note - the small square button near the 2 left window switches is lock-out for rear only. Normally the consol and rear door window switches are lit up and work, but when you push the button, power to the rear windows is cut, making them not work and the lights go out, but they can still be controlled by the console buttons.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28081.jpg

The shift boot is leather and looks to be in good condition when cleaned up, I'll sew it back together.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28089.jpg

the check button works - it turns off the blinking check light n the dash, but none of the LED's work... I'll figure that out sometime. The cover for the manual sunroof crank fell under the passenger seat

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28087.jpg

So nasty. The steering wheel cover went right in the trash

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28085.jpg

That is a small dash vent, some cars had a real full dash vent with it's own on/off control

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28084.jpg

The climate control has no recirc function. This radio is just a cheap Durabrand unit, but works well. It is wired up to constant power so the faceplate needs to be removed to turn it fully off. It is a cd player and has a front aux input - which is cool. I'll rewire it properly and it'll stay. The factory speakers sound really good.... actually - darn good. The dial is part of the factory premium sound with amp that no longer works, I think it was fader control. Red ight is part of the hi-tek 80s security system that will be gone

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28083.jpg

Nasty oil that came out of the engine. I forgot to put the drain plug back in and started adding oil... about 2-3 qts drained out before I realized it - heh engine got a "flush"

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28095.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28098.jpg

Night Wolf
09-20-10, 06:45 AM
I am completely surprised by the gas mileage - this thing is getting 25-30mpg in basic driving around so far - no tune up, all hacked up etc... The eta engine fits the car well (for me) because that is exactly what I plan to use it as.... a laid back daily driver. If I can get close to 30mpg under normal driving with a car like this, that is incredible.

So today I degrimed the thing... I also degreased the e30's engine bay and engine but that is for the other thread.

Started with this mess. I don't like working on dirty things. This whole car really needs to be dipped in degreaser and ran through a pressure washer

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/e28degrime001.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/e28degrime002.jpg

picked up supplies - gas for the Honda pressure washer (it got good use!) coolant, brake fluid and ATF.

Today I changed the transmission oil (ATF) only about a pint came out but 2qts went in. Also changed the rear diff oil (already had from e30), drained engine block/radiator of coolant (err... water) flushed and refilled properly. It uses the same fuel filter as the e30, which only has about 10k on it so I took it off swapped it. The e30 was getting a new one anyway and the one on the e28 was a factory BMW filter with a 2001 date code. I didn't get around to changing the power steering fluid or flushing/bleeding the entire clutch/brake system - hopefully that'll fix the sometimes spongy clutch. Oh, and 3 large bottles of Awesome degreaser.... this stuff was needed.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/e28degrime007.jpg

degreaser sprayed

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/e28degrime008.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/e28degrime010.jpg

ok, so I pressure rinsed and degreased 3 times total... but this was the result

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/e28degrime026.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/e28degrime027.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/e28degrime028.jpg

The rear diff mount is bad causing a loud clunk when initially moving forward or reverse as the diff shifts, also a clunk during hard shifts. All 4 CV axle boots are torn, but the axles are good. I'll be getting kits to regrease them and put new boots on. These are a different design then the e30, which had the splined axle shaft on one end. Both of these ends are bolted - should make it much easier to remove

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/e28degrime030.jpg

I didn't even wash the car... I couldn't... I had to pressure wash it. I don't mean soaping it up at the car wash either - I mean treating it like a concrete driveway to blast the crap off. It still needs a good washing, but this was just after pressing washing with water. Fender done, door not yet

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/e28degrime022.jpg

door done but not quarter panel

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/e28degrime023.jpg

I like the factory 14" BBS basketweave wheels. The oddball tire is a bottlecap... but it is a quirky metric size. 390mm, which takes a special tire. The car needs tires bad but I am going to try and locate another basketweave wheel then take the car to the local econo used tire place and see what they can throw on that actually match and has tread.

This was just after the pressure wash - no soap. Wheels were cleaned with degreaser stuff and scrubbed with a brush.... slowly it is starting to look less like a pos waiting for the junkyard and more into an "old car"

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/e28degrime043.jpg

With the exception of 2-3 door dings and a small dent near the trunk badge, the body is suprislingly dent/ding free... the sheetmetal panels seem a bit thicker then the e30, though it may just be my imagination

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/e28degrime045.jpg

the dark spots seem to be the actual clearcoat... which I could "erase" with the pressure washer.... made it look much more uniform. Much to my surprise after pressure washing the heck outta this thing - nothing leaked into the car... not even the sunroof. I made note not to spray the seal directly, but still. I'm impressed.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/e28degrime047.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/e28degrime048.jpg

That's all for now... I added up the cost and it needs about $250 worth of parts for it to be safe and reliable on the road - then I'll start driving it. Atleast there is plenty of cleaning tasks to keep me busy as it'll be several weeks until I have the funds to put towards this car.

Forgot to mention.... car was $500. Runs, drives, electrical stuff mostly all works, cold A/C, accident and rust free.

Night Wolf
09-20-10, 07:07 AM
Appearace mods (last on the priority) will be basic... matching 4th wheel (not last - car needs tires), hood will get repainted by yours truely - rattle can? dunno - not looking for perfect... looking for sorta mostly blends in. Broken power antenna will get repalced with basic fixed mast. I'll probably get the windows tinted not too dark sometime. I'm not even concerned about the paint and to me it looks "good" - a wash and wax for giggles but I can deal with faded paint on an original 24 year old car - it's still doing it's job anyway (protecting the metal from rusting). I'll replace the fog lights too. I'm not concerned about making this into a show car or anything close to it... just a clean, well kept and well maintained driver - faded paint and all.

About the only thing I would do is dump the ugly diving boards - the US 5mph spec bumpers in place for some euros if the price was right... it just makes the car look so much better

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/3/35/BMW_520_El_Medano.jpg/800px-BMW_520_El_Medano.jpg

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/3/36/1987BMW520i.jpg/800px-1987BMW520i.jpg

No performance mods either... engine will get tuned up, valves adjusted, timing belt and water pump replaced (both soon) but it'll be left stock. The whole point of this car is a "regular car" and even driving it around about an hour that I have already - I think it'll fit that bill very nice. It's a fun, comfortable and nice ride. I really miss a properly setup sound system in an enclosed car.

This car isn't replacing anything and wasn't bought out of need. It will get its fair share of use, mostly local stuff, unless I was going on a trip in the colder months when I don't want a convertible or if I'm picking someone up from the airport, going out with friends or anything that involves more then 2 people as it actually has a back seat that is worth a darn.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-20-10, 09:05 AM
Cool!

mhamilton
09-20-10, 11:24 AM
I love to see a car brought back from the brink of death! A friend and I are doing something similar with his '88 F150 (typical redneck truck, trying to make it a reliable driver). Can't wait to see how your interior cleans up (I've used Spray-9 on old filthy leather to clean dirt off, works very well)

Jesda
09-20-10, 12:57 PM
Son of a bitch. Every used car I buy has AC problems, but your heap from a redneck in the woods still blows ice cold!!! I can already see the potential in this car. That color is beautiful, especially with the beige interior.

It seems like the same irrational "but surely, I can give this car love" mentality that got me an old Saab got you a couple old BMWs. I cant wait to see how your E28 looks in a year.

Just two days ago I was at the junkyard in the import section and stumbled upon an E28. I was actually thinking, "Rick might like this."

If you remember Wes, who used to be a moderator here, he bought an E28 for a few hundred bucks, did the head gasket, and resold it I think for a couple grand. The thread is buried somewhere at NICOclub.com if you want to see pics, or just contact elwesso.

These underrated and underappreciated E28s will be increasing slightly in resale value soon (in good condition), so now is a good time to buy.

Night Wolf
09-20-10, 01:14 PM
I know, of all things I wasn't expecting to work was the A/C. It's not without its faults though - I dred turning the blower fan on as it just pumps that nasty cig smell through the car - literally starts to get me sick.

..... anything worth salvaging on that e28 in the junkyard? They are hard to find around here.... don't exactly fit in with the locals.

I remember Wes! I'll have to check out that thread about him fixing it up.

I am surprised how cheap, overall it'll be total. $500 for the car, so far about $60 in fluids.... but I already have all the parts together in an online shopping car and the total is only around $250, with the most expesnive being the rear diff mount at $75 and center drag link at $63. It isn't going to take much cost wise. Then get a matching wheel and whatever speical I can find at the used tire place.

Perhaps something that really surprised me was the power delivery. I've heard the eta engine isn't as quick as the i, that's a given... but how well it puts that power down - one really wouldn't think it is 121hp.

If it is in 1st and you are rolling through a 90* turn, say in a parking lot or something and floor it - it'll break the back end loose. Especially in 1st and 2nd it pulls rather strong as you can actually feel the car accelerate. Upper gears are not bad either. Definitly not a race car, but for an early 80s era midsize car with what would be considered a small engine - it moves out well. I took some videos that are uploading.

Night Wolf
09-20-10, 02:31 PM
I love to see a car brought back from the brink of death! A friend and I are doing something similar with his '88 F150 (typical redneck truck, trying to make it a reliable driver). Can't wait to see how your interior cleans up (I've used Spray-9 on old filthy leather to clean dirt off, works very well)

I grew up around those trucks (Broncos)and really like them alot - they are darn good trucks. My favorite of them, and of now "older" trucks is the '92-'96 style. If I needed a pickup, I'd get one of those - preferably with the I6.

Some videos. This is when I first got it without doing anything to it. This engine even sounds different then the "i"... almost trucky like.

VeGQVk-xPko

Later that night I did the oil change and ran seafoam thru the intake as well as in the gas. Then I drove it around for about an hour. This was the ride where I averaged around 27mpg.

Couple things at hand... first the camera is in need of repair, so I need to keep pressure on the battery door otherwise it'll turn off, so it's akward to hold. Also this shifting - it isn't fast, the shifter linkage is totally shot, so this isn't a real 0-60 time, however 1st and 2nd are wide open throttle (once I was straight on the road, not through the turn). Other then the oil change it is as-is, dirty fuel filter (now repalced) nasty air filter and who knows what condition the distrubutor cap and rotor are in. 2nd gear ends around 60mph.

IgzZpApFwCU

driving in 5th

FmrZ0eLdfZ0

a short 3rd gear wot pull halfway through. I'm not pushing the car any faster... I don't even want to do 60 in it, the ball joint on the draglink looks like it'll snap out and the tires are bald and totally shot.

6kLvRlhPKaY

This just shows how totally shot the entire shifter linkage is. The e30 was the same way. In fact, the parts are interchangeable. I am going to be upgrading the e30 linkage to an aftermarket double shear selector rod, which means the whole stock linkage I rebuilt will have no use.... all those parts will be getting swapped onto this car. Shifter itself will stay stock as I am not concerned about short throw on this car, but I atlest want it tight.

ghknRCl6JoI

ga_etc
09-20-10, 03:02 PM
Pretty cool Rick. I can't blame you for rescuing it for $500. Hope it serves you well.

gdwriter
09-20-10, 03:06 PM
Always hate to see a car that's been so badly neglected, especially that nasty interior, but you've given it a new lease on life. And for $500, it was worth saving, especially considering the work you've done on the 3-Series.

A fellow car guy at OSU had a mint '85 5-Series that he recently sold; fortunately it went to a real BMW enthusiast who will take good care of it.

Jesda
09-20-10, 03:37 PM
The E28 I saw at the yard had a decent interior except for the drivers seat. I remember it being a darker color inside. All the doors, glass, and panels were there. Cant remember if there was any rust. It was also a manual and the shifter felt pretty good. If there's something you specifically need that's shippable let me know.

Jesda
09-20-10, 03:40 PM
The one in St Louis:
Pick-n-Pull - St. Louis [More Information]
7557 Hall Street
St. Louis, MO 63147 US

Store Layout Map | Part PricingMake Model Year Row Date On Yard
BMW 535i 87 0036 09/05/2010

http://www.picknpull.com

They also have a yard in Tallahassee but I only saw E39s when I searched.

orconn
09-20-10, 03:48 PM
It will be interesting to see this poor orphan come back to useable like under your knowledgeable and skilled ownership. The eighties were not as harmful to some of the European makes as they were to many of the American ones. In fact the eighties European and Japanese cars really became much more competitive with American cars which suffered inordinately from engine downsizing and other imperfect attempts at improving mileage. The eighties were the decade when all BMW models began to gain acceptance as "prestige" cars for the higher income buyers on both coasts who now equated "lively" handling with luxury. Hence Jaguar, BMW and even the slugs from Mercedes began showing up in large numbers in the supermaket parking lots of the "Tonier" suburbs of major cities.

I agree with you when it comes to the 3 series cars being the most fun and enjoyable to drive and own. With BMWs you loose a lot of the driving spontaneity as you move up thru the models to the 5 series and finally the boring "Fat Burgher Special" the 7 series. The makes continual emphasis on "gadget" luxury and their subsequent weight gains have eroded BMWs unique placed among lury cars today. Even the 3 series has become more "ho hum" as other makes improve and BMW layers on the gadgets and pounds!

Playdrv4me
09-20-10, 03:56 PM
I know you don't want to do much about appearance, but please if I may put in a request... for the sake of the BMW Gods fix that grille, and the headlight aiming by proxy. Right now it looks like a pornstar with a bad tit-job!

orconn
09-20-10, 04:13 PM
Isn't there some kind of foaming cleaning product that you put in the HVAC system that gets rid of cigarette smells? I think I read a test somewhere and they said it was pretty effective.

77CDV
09-20-10, 04:40 PM
For a couple hundred bucks, you got a really neat diamond in the rough, Rick! Your case of B.A.D. (Bimmer Acquisition Disease) is confirmed.

gdwriter
09-20-10, 05:31 PM
For a couple hundred bucks, you got a really neat diamond in the rough, Rick! Your case of B.A.D. (Bimmer Acquisition Disease) is confirmed.He needs a sign out front: "Rick's Home for Wayward Bimmers"

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-20-10, 09:06 PM
Isn't there some kind of foaming cleaning product that you put in the HVAC system that gets rid of cigarette smells? I think I read a test somewhere and they said it was pretty effective.

Yep! We make a product that gets installed into the evaporator core, then foams up and eats away at all the gunk and garbage that makes it smell. It's called Frigi-Clean, part number 709. Just go to www.bgfindashop.com, type in your zipcode, and find the nearest shop that does A/C work. Frigi-Fresh, part number 708, is a very good deodorizer that gets sprayed into the cowl with the fan on high.

http://www.bgfindashop.com/locator/index.php


Rick, I've never driven an E28, but it looks like a four door E24, same shark like front end and all. Why do they call it an E28 v. E30? Did it hit the market first? I have however driven an '89 E34 525i a few years back and was quite impressed. I remember it was quite tight and taut, even in 2008, it had firm and direct steering and a taut/comfortable suspension and comfortable seats. It had the neat '80s era BMW climate control and super precise trip computer.

hueterm
09-20-10, 09:21 PM
I like that gen 5...it should make a good hobby!

orconn
09-20-10, 09:38 PM
I just noticed, on the way out to pick up some dinner, that a neighbor has a 5 series just like yours, Rick, parked in his driveway. He also has several mid '90's Cadillacs around off and on.

Jesda
09-20-10, 09:43 PM
E28 came out in 1981(?) I think, so it does predate the E30.

Destroyer
09-20-10, 10:56 PM
Me?, I think it is more worthwhile to spend a bit more and get one in better shape from the get-go. On the other hand, you seem to enjoy working on these beaters as I did when I was your age. Good luck with it. :yup: I'd rather pay more and get this: http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/cto/1964792436.html

orconn
09-21-10, 12:20 AM
Checking around there seem to be many BMW 635s available at reasonable prices. I'd take a 635 over any 5series sedan if I were looking to refurbish the car as a daily driver. The 635 is one of my all time favorite cars, and I believe will at least keep its' value, if nt appreciate in the years to come.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-21-10, 12:21 AM
So Rick, when are you gonna buy that sweet 850CSi you've always wanted??

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b183/M_Alx/Alx_BMW_850CSI_20061231_5.jpg

ga_etc
09-21-10, 12:27 AM
850CSi=:drool:

Jesda
09-21-10, 01:12 AM
Fingers crossed that Rick will find a near-dead 8-series in a barn, rehabilitate it, and sell it to me. :D

Night Wolf
09-21-10, 02:56 AM
I know you don't want to do much about appearance, but please if I may put in a request... for the sake of the BMW Gods fix that grille, and the headlight aiming by proxy. Right now it looks like a pornstar with a bad tit-job!

I will be fixing that. The whole grille support area that was damaged from the accident with the deer will be getting attention, I am going to make it look much better and get some cans of spray paint in the factory color to paint the whole area when done. The passenger side headlights are just laying in there - literally, there is nothing holding them in. The guy I bought it from said the center grille section is original but the 2 sides were replaced. Unlike the e30 with aftermarket grilles at $15/section, the only thing I could find for this was $75 for the center section and nothing for the sides. The sides look like they were once painted and it is now flaking, I'll take them off and hit them with a sanding pad on the drill then repaint them.

My goal with this car is to have a presentable, while fully maintained "old car". Hard to explain - but with the cosmetics, the fadded paint job dosen't bother me - yet I want the car to look well-kept and not like a POS. At the same time, the car will be reliable so that if I wanted to drive it cross-country, it'll be ready any time - that goes for all my vehicles.

This car is the polar opposite of my '96 Town Car, but not in the typical way. The whole appeal to this car for me is that it is a car I -really- like and can see myself spending a lot of time in. I felt the same way about the Lincoln, but the problem with that car was that it was too nice. The car didn't have a single door ding and had near flawless paint, that I was so paranoid any time I parked it - I would literally be thinking about it nearly the whole time I was away from it. Work was bad enough... but Walmart? or large places with mass amounts of people (fairs, shows etc...) it actually got in the way of me enjoying myself. Many around me would question why I took such care of the car and also was picky about it - with comments like "it's an old car" or "it's not worth much" etc.... maybe they were right? But I couldn't help it - which is why it was such a relief when I finally did sell it.

That is the same reason why I am hesitant about doing the needed body and paint work to Noelle.... however now that I have the 528e, and plan on holding on to it for a while.... it will be taking miles/use away from the e30... Mostly in the "normal" type stuff - going to work etc... The Jeep will not be getting 25k + miles/year on it at 14mpg either. Lately I've been thinking that I may actually be more inclined to fix up the body and paint Noelle - she will still be a driver and not a show car, but if the 528e works out as well as I think it will, then it will be more of the fun car and roadtrip car then the workmobile.

That is the appeal of the 528e though. It is a fun car to drive, I really like the manual transmission - yet due to its nature (not a convertible) there are a whole lot less quirks to deal with on a day to day basis. The car is solid and will look "good" for an old car, but it will be obvious it is just that - an old driver. That is the great thing for me. I won't think twice about parking it at work, walmart or where ever else I go etc... It's not that I don't like the car, it is just that it'll actually be used as a "car"

Night Wolf
09-21-10, 02:58 AM
So Rick, when are you gonna buy that sweet 850CSi you've always wanted??

http://i19.photobucket.com/albums/b183/M_Alx/Alx_BMW_850CSI_20061231_5.jpg

The more I read into those cars - I really don't want anything to do with them.

They are about the MAJOR opposite of 80s era BMW's. Parts are insanely expensive (like a grand for spark plug wires) and everything about owning them is expensive. After finding all that out, I'd much rather have a minty e24.

Night Wolf
09-21-10, 03:31 AM
Yep! We make a product that gets installed into the evaporator core, then foams up and eats away at all the gunk and garbage that makes it smell. It's called Frigi-Clean, part number 709. Just go to www.bgfindashop.com, type in your zipcode, and find the nearest shop that does A/C work. Frigi-Fresh, part number 708, is a very good deodorizer that gets sprayed into the cowl with the fan on high.

http://www.bgfindashop.com/locator/index.php


Rick, I've never driven an E28, but it looks like a four door E24, same shark like front end and all. Why do they call it an E28 v. E30? Did it hit the market first? I have however driven an '89 E34 525i a few years back and was quite impressed. I remember it was quite tight and taut, even in 2008, it had firm and direct steering and a taut/comfortable suspension and comfortable seats. It had the neat '80s era BMW climate control and super precise trip computer.

I've been researching products to rid the nasty smell. The interior first needs a deep cleaning and I know the carpet really needs to be pressure washed like I did on the e30, but I'm not looking forward to installing/removing it on a 4-door fixed roof car.... but it needs it. Once the inteiror is cleaned I gotta do something about the HVAC system. For now I think I'll place about a dozen boxes of baking soda in the car and trunk.

The e28 predates the e30 by a year. e28 came out in 1981, e30 in 1982 ('84 in the US). Both of these cars are a bit more advanced then the e23 and e24.

The e23 was the 1st 7-series, and there is an old beat up one local for sale - has been in the same spot for years. It was actually fairly luxury for its day, this particular car has an automatic (ok I could deal with) but the entire sunroof is majorly off-track pouring water inside the car every time it rained.

Anyway, the e23 was not made to be a "drivers" car and was first produced in 1977. The e24 is basically a 2-door version of the e23, very similar front ends (looks sweet) and very similar back ends (I still can't get used to the small, pinched off look). The e24 came out in 1976.... and shares similar chassis with the e23.

From what I have read about the e24 - they are not drivers cars, and are much more suited for crusing as they ride and handle like a "large" car. Of course it is all realitive and it is still a BMW but for the sake of comparing these models.

The e28 and e30 were produced after those cars were already in production. They actually have a good bit in common with each other, though the suspension designs differ. Everything I have gather points that the e28 feels like a big e30, and nothing like the older e23 and e24. e30 build quality is already quite high.... yet the e28 feels built... better and with a more solid body.

e28 is also the chassis that introduced the first M5, similar to the e30 introducing the M3. BMW also raced the e28 chassis. As a whole, the e28 is considered to be a "drivers car", very much performing like a bigger e30, which was slowly lost with the following 5-series.

http://www1.garaget.org/archive/115/114120/143106/143106-1404192.jpg

While I haven't pushed my car at all with the shot drag link, diff mount and tires ready to explode, I can definitly say I feel e30 in it. It is bigger and heavier, and behaves as such - yet there is so much willingness to toss it. My particular model is about economey (gas wise, not cheapness) but even then, the gearing is so well matched to the car, it is still fun. Sitting in the car is neat, as it is not a super large luxobarge, and is still rather small all things considered but isn't cramped either. I feel comfortable enough that I could take it on a cross-country trip with ease.... yet also ready to enter it in an auto-x. I really can't explain the feel other then it feels like a big e30 - which dosen't mean much unless you've experienced an e30 itself.

Most models of the e28 in the US were 535i/535is. They had the M30 "big six", which was the car with all the performance. The eta engine itself (2.7L M20 tuned for fuel economy over performance) was already US-specific. It was also only used in two chassis ever - the e28 and e30. It was BMW's way of answering the fuel crisis. Looking back - they did quite an amazing task as these engines even in eta form were rather high performance and advanced compared to American engines of the time. With the exception of the cat conv, there is no other emmissions stuff common on many 80s cars to deal with such as AIR pump etc...

A brief overview of the 528e

http://autobahnrunners.blogspot.com/2009/01/bmw-528e-e28.html

Here is some information about the eta, same engine was used in e28 and e30... e30 is more popular.

http://www.usautoparts.net/bmw/models/vintage/pow/325e_and_528e.htm

The more I get into it, the more I realize the 528e fits me perfectly as a driver. It gets amazing fuel economy and enjoy low RPM driving, but with the 5spd manual geared so well, it is still fun to row through the gears. As already having the 325i convertible as a lively high RPM fun car - this is a really nice supplment that offers similar enjoyment but in a very different package - both in terms of car and engine.

Much like I didn't even know about an e30 until I actually started to get into them... it wasn't until somewhat recently I really started to follow the e28, and it is a cult car in and of itself as well - just not nearly the following or support of the e30.

Night Wolf
09-21-10, 03:56 AM
Me?, I think it is more worthwhile to spend a bit more and get one in better shape from the get-go. On the other hand, you seem to enjoy working on these beaters as I did when I was your age. Good luck with it. :yup: I'd rather pay more and get this: http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/cto/1964792436.html

You are right in that for what would otherwise be "not much more money" you can get a whole lot more car.

For me though, if I had the cash laying around to buy that car - I'd slap it on debt... or use it to build a garage etc... This car wasn't bought out of need.... knowing that there was so much potential to be had and yet it was one step away from turning into anyones "$500 beater" that they ragged for 6 months then became the next youtube destruction video was enough to send me over the edge and buy it.

For me - I just *really* enjoy tinkering with things. Common sense would say put the time/money into the e30 instead of buying another car. The e30 isn't being neglected though. For me, so much of the fun is in the journey, not the destination. I like seeing a car nearly hitting the junkyard and fixing it up. Not all heaps have this potential though - it takes a special car for it, which has to do with my two main stipulations with 80s BMW's - no major accidents and no major (if any) rust/rot.

From a cost perspective - I paid $500 for the car, put $60 into it so far and will need around $300 in parts. I priced out a set of tires at pepboys and after rebate - $300 for 85k Hankooks, I can probably get something from the used tire place cheaper. All said and done, I'll probably have right around $1,000 into this car for a well running/performing, solid and reliable driver with cold A/C and a decent sounding stereo.


Checking around there seem to be many BMW 635s available at reasonable prices. I'd take a 635 over any 5series sedan if I were looking to refurbish the car as a daily driver. The 635 is one of my all time favorite cars, and I believe will at least keep its' value, if nt appreciate in the years to come.

The e24 is a classic in its' own right and many consider it to be one of the best BMW designs.

Personally I am still hit and miss with it... the styling is a mix of love and hate. The front end is so sexy, side profile looks good, but the back just dosen't do it for me at all. In comparison, I think the e28, like the e30 is an excellent well-rounded design with no real bad angles to it - the biggest cosmetic drawback are the US mandated 5mph bumpers.

But one of the biggest drawbacks of the e24, IMO is the interior. It isn't "bad" - I just don't like it. It has too much "70s" style and not enough "80s" style - because it was first made in '76. It wouldn't stop me from owning the car... but living with it day in and out in a driver would bother me. In that sense, the e28 (and following e30) has a much more updated 80s era dash.

For those two main reasons, I personally would choose the e28 over an e24 as a daily driver - it is stictly a styling thing inside and out..... other other reasons being that the e28 chassis is much more lively then the e24.

http://www.fotothing.com/photos/610/6108e2e72c6a1b2cb150a0d83699a7a9_491.jpg

After the e24 (above) but before the e28 was the e23 7-series.... it still had a quirky dash, but IMO not as bad

http://automobilesdeluxe.tv/wp-content/uploads/2010/02/bmw-e23-7-interior-635x354.jpg

Personally the e28 and e30 interiors really hit the spot. All subjective of course, as before I was into e30s when I had my DeVille's I considered the old BMW's to be cold and sterile, I've grown to -really- like them and the whole driver-orientated theme. Ergonomics are great as well. After these cars, the interiors started to become more plush, full of gadgets and generaly less "for the driver" starting with the e34 5-series then the e36 3-series. Again, not that they are "bad" I just seem to be stuck in this rather tight early 80's niche of BMW design that just feels so right to me in so many different ways.

Night Wolf
09-21-10, 04:45 AM
While my 528e is a 180 from the M5.... This is still cool. The M5 isn't as differnt from the other e28s as the M3 is to the e30 (it really is almost its' own car) so it was really cool to watch the old e28 in action

8nL-XdjtY70&feature=related

gary88
09-21-10, 11:29 AM
Nice find! Can't wait to see how it progresses along.


The more I read into those cars - I really don't want anything to do with them.

They are about the MAJOR opposite of 80s era BMW's. Parts are insanely expensive (like a grand for spark plug wires) and everything about owning them is expensive. After finding all that out, I'd much rather have a minty e24.

And this. Why anyone would want an older car with three ECUs, two batteries, etc, is beyond me.

Although damnit they are cool.

gdwriter
09-21-10, 01:52 PM
I've been researching products to rid the nasty smell. The interior first needs a deep cleaning and I know the carpet really needs to be pressure washed like I did on the e30, but I'm not looking forward to installing/removing it on a 4-door fixed roof car.... but it needs it. Once the inteiror is cleaned I gotta do something about the HVAC system. For now I think I'll place about a dozen boxes of baking soda in the car and trunk.I don't know if the steam vacs you can rent have attachments or not, but they're not that expensive to buy and worth having anyway (especially since you have pets). Not sure if you're using soap with the pressure washer, but there are steam vac detergents formulated to get rid of odors, plus they suck the dirty water back up, so the carpets aren't left soaked and you don't have to remove them to clean them. I usually clean the carpets in my cars (plus the cloth seats in Betty) once a year with the steam vac.

Night Wolf
09-21-10, 02:35 PM
Today I got the shop vac and sucked up all the crap in the car and trunk. I was reading online about how to remove odors and one method is to leave open contaniers of ground coffee in the car, so I bought a can of dollar general's special and will do just that. Also said to use white vinegar, so I bought some of that too but will try the coffee first.

The carpet is so nasty, I really should remove it to pressure wash it - but it looks like it'll be quite a pain compared to the convertible.... so I'll have to check into a steam vac, it seems like that may do the trick.

gdwriter
09-21-10, 04:04 PM
Here's (http://www.hoover.com/parts/?category=cleaningsolutions&part=AH30035) what you need, Rick:

http://www.hoover.com/retrieveImage.aspx?code=LG&model=AH30035


Concentrated enzyme formula penetrates deeper to eliminate stains and odor. An ideal cleaner for family and pet messes including bed wetting, pet accidents, blood, vomit and grass stains.
Because you never know who might have peed, bled or barfed in that car. :histeric:

Night Wolf
09-22-10, 01:35 AM
I cleaned out the trunk and removed all the lining - will hit it with the pressure washer. Then used the shop vac and sucked all the junk up. The trunk seal is shot and was redneck repaired using some yellowish glue. A new trunk seal is only $50, so it'll be getting included in the order of parts for this car. BMW has drain holes in the trunks so there was no rust - it was just damp.

Then I vacuumed out the rest of the interior, removed the bottom portion of the rear seat. It really is amazing what just a basic wash on the outside and vacuum on the inside will do to an old car that has been badly neglected. The carpet still looks nasty but I'll look into the steam cleaning - I'm not in the mood to try and remove it from the larger 4-door fixed roof car.

I put 3 big plates of columbia's best in the car, 1 in the trunk, 1 in the back seat floor and 1 in the front seat floor. When I got home tonight and checked on it - the trunk had a neutral smell, and the interior had a neutral smell with just a hint of coffee.... I really think this stuff is working! Next on the interior is to actually clean everything. Before I even bother treating it with car care products I am going to clean everything with a diluted dose of Awesome. The door panels, dash, seats and headliner will all get deep cleaned then actually treated with Aerospace 303. It's been a while since I treated leather, I'm not sure what I'll use. It feels kinda stiff so something with conditioner would be good.

When I removed the bottom of the back seat, the e28 has sort of an extra layer of sound deadening material that the e30 dosen't have - but it also dosen't have the yucky tar stuff on the floorboards either.

The e30's seats, such as the back seat are all thick foam. When they are out it is like you are holding a chunk of foam. The e28 has much thinner foam but the entire seat is made of metal in an S pattern, which acts as a spring. I'm not sure if it is a difference between old car vs new car or sporty vs luxury. You sit on the e30 seats while you sorta sink into the e28 seats.

Night Wolf
09-22-10, 02:11 AM
this was the pictureless craigslist ad

Title:


CHEAP AND DEPENDABLE 1987 BMW 528E


IM TRYING TO SELL MY 1987 BMW 528E THAT RUNS AND DRIVE GREAT. IT HAS A V6 WITH A 5 SPEED TRANSMISSION. IT HAS ICE COLD A/C. AND IT HAS POWER EVERYTHING AND EVERYTHING WORKS. IT HAS A NEW CLUTCH FAN, NEW HEAD LIGHTS, NEW BELTS, NEW SPARK PLUGS, AND NEW RADIATOR HOSES.I'M ASKIMG $600 OBO

Even when the hood was open and we were staring at the engine, he called it a V6 :tisk:

I was later sent 1 lowish quality cell phone pic of the side view. I guess I was not expecting it to be so flat out disgustingly filthy inside and out, which is why when I first saw it I said no.... but then when I drove it I could see the potential. Underneath all the filth, it really isn't a bad car all things considered. Even factoring in the work it needs, it is a neglected but still daily driven 24 year old car with well over 200k miles.

There is a windsheild sticker from Valvoline on the car that says next service due... they used 10w-30 :( too light for the old M20. The mileage on the sticker is still 3k miles from the current odo reading and the date (for next service) was 10/2008, so that was back in July 2008 the odo was broke. I'll run an autocheck on it at some point just to see where it was bought and if miles were tracked at all.

It bugs me when the odometer is broke - easy and cheap enough to fix, but I want to know how many miles are on the car. I know it really dosen't matter to these things but it would still be cool to say "yeah this is my blah blah with this many miles"

I drove it into town again today... darn thing runs strong and feels tight overall. Under WOT the engine has some upper rev skips... I'm sure the distrubutor cap and rotor are old (more pricey then American cars) but I have a brand new pair I bought for the e30 that I may put on. Spark plug wires look original, but they will stay for now. I'll replace the plugs sometime too with NGK v-power or coppers gapped properly. I'll adjust the valves once I get a new valve cover gasket.

Probably in a month I'll be daily driving it. Right now I am cleaning it and doing whatever cosmetic repairs inside/out it needs. Still gotta flush/bleed brakes and clutch, then once I order all the parts and they get here, I'll put those on. Last thing will be to acquire 2 matching wheels (for a spare too) and then get a set of tires that are safe to drive on.

If anyone feels thrilled by my story about the e28 - you can have your own! Here is what looks like a much better start than my car for only $1200 about an hour and a half away, in 535is flavor too. I saw this ad before I bought my car... I just hard a hard time passing up 1) 500 bucks and 2) poor car needs a new life. Even though the clearcoat on both cars is shot, the Bronzitbeige does such a great job at hiding it.

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/1952820417.html

Stingroo
09-22-10, 02:13 AM
When you go to a store to buy cologne or perfume, between testing each type they have you sniff coffee beans so your nose is free of any previous smells and you really find out what each one smells like. I assume it's the same idea with the coffee in your new BMW. :)

Destroyer
09-22-10, 09:02 PM
Today I got the shop vac and sucked up all the crap in the car and trunk. I was reading online about how to remove odors and one method is to leave open contaniers of ground coffee in the car, so I bought a can of dollar general's special and will do just that.Gourmet I hope!:bigroll::thumbsup:

Playdrv4me
09-22-10, 09:19 PM
Rick, please clear your PM box.

The-Dullahan
09-23-10, 01:28 AM
I am almost certain I saw one of these yesterday, sitting right near a more modern BMW (both black) and couldn't help but notice that (In my opinion) it looked so much nicer. Not really a BMW fan, but congratulations!

(If you need to get rid of your Jeep now, I'll take it off your hands once I find some black paint for it...)

I think the toolkit is pretty groovy and of course, it adds THE HORSEPOWERS (Yay, my meme went full circle)

Night Wolf
09-23-10, 01:52 AM
Rick, please clear your PM box.

Done.

The coffee is working like magic. No more cigerette smell and the car now has a nice coffee smell. I haven't ran the HVAC system and I'm sure that'll restore some more of the nastyness. The car dosen't have a recirc button so I'll see how bad it is... maybe it'll just take time.

A friend at work said he has a steam vac I can use.... I'm looking forward to see what that can do. I'm probably gonna remove the front seats for cleaning them and the carpet, but the carpet is staying in the car.

Smoking is such a nasty habit. My father was a heavy smoker growing up and in the car was horrible. As for this car - it gets on EVERYTHING, so everything needs to be cleaned. It is so nasty that words can't even explain it so I'll let the pictures do it.

I used Awesome, same stuff I degreased with, but diluted about 50/50 with water. As soon as I sprayed it onto something it begain to lift the nasty cigerette stuff (nicotine? tobacoo?) right out of the material... it was neat but so distgusting. It took a few times until it is finally gone evidenced by wiping it and getting no more nastyness. It is a slow, nasty process.

I didn't get a whole lot done on the inside - will do more tomorrow... but just a start...

these pictures STILL don't do the poor car justice as to how nasty it really is!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/cleaninginterior003.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/cleaninginterior004.jpg

After spraying the 50/50 mix of Awesome and water... and just wiping it down...

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/cleaninginterior005.jpg

Then on the steering wheel which "didn't look bad"... probably cause it's black. This is so gross it isn't even able to be put into words. The Awesome worked.... awesome and magically "lifted" the nastiness out of the vinyl.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/cleaninginterior006.jpg

but then it started dripping... and not even the torn up drivers seat deserved the sheer nastiness that was now in liquid form....

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/cleaninginterior007.jpg

the poor paper towels would have had a better life cleaning up baby poop over this stuff

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/cleaninginterior008.jpg

again.... this is just spraying it on

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/cleaninginterior009.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/cleaninginterior012.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/cleaninginterior010.jpg

The seat switches and cruise/signal/wiper stalks have a whiteish paint on them for the words/symbols... which the Awesome was starting to remove... ah well, they needed to be cleaned. I removed all the window switches and power seat switches, then cleaned them and around where they go.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/cleaninginterior014.jpg

This was just after spraying and wiping a few times. It is still dirty in the grains that I could get a toothbrush and srucb or maybe a magic eraser... but for now damn, atleast I don't feel like I'm ready to barf everytime I look around the car.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/cleaninginterior015.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/cleaninginterior016.jpg

then cleaned the HVAC panel, radio area and the blower motor fins thing.... the whole center console really should come out to be cleaned, cleaned under and around the blower motor

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/cleaninginterior024.jpg

dash cleaned up well

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/cleaninginterior020.jpg

steering wheel cleaned up good too... actually looks newish

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/cleaninginterior023.jpg

This was just a little part of the interior... the ENTIRE car is like this.... Just a little at a time though... once it is all done, I am gonna go over it again with the Awesome/water.... then maybe think about actually treating it with car care products.

Did I mention it was nasty? Smoking is such a nasty habit... I mean if this is what vinyl in a car looks like, imagine sitting next to someone smoking and breathing that crap in..... or imagine being the one sticking the death sticks in your mouth and lighting away. Poor car had to deal with it.....uggghhhh I can deal with a mismatched hood and faded paint all day long... I can also deal with a torn seat and cracked dash... but there is just no reasoning for this level of nastiness.

Stingroo
09-23-10, 01:56 AM
Wow those photos are like night and day! Ridiculous!

Aron9000
09-23-10, 02:43 AM
Well Rick, you're far more adventurous than me. That cigarette smoke nastyness would've made me run far, far, far away from that poor car. Glad to see you're saving it from the junkyard, cause I could deal with the mechanical/cosmetic issues, but I'd never buy a car that stinks.

Also, you need some of those big fluffy wool seat covers for the front seats. Friend has them on his old w126, which has torn up leather on the front seats. They're just awesome, way more comfortable than new leather.

Jesda
09-23-10, 02:53 AM
WOW. There really was a beautiful interior hiding under all that.

gdwriter
09-23-10, 03:30 AM
The coffee is working like magic. No more cigerette smell and the car now has a nice coffee smell. I haven't ran the HVAC system and I'm sure that'll restore some more of the nastyness. The car dosen't have a recirc button so I'll see how bad it is... maybe it'll just take time.

A friend at work said he has a steam vac I can use.... I'm looking forward to see what that can do. I'm probably gonna remove the front seats for cleaning them and the carpet, but the carpet is staying in the car.I love the smell of coffee; I only started actually drinking it a few years ago when I found two sugars were just what I needed to enjoy the taste. Now I'm totally addicted.

That Awesome stuff truly is; I'm very impressed with how much grunge it's managed to eliminate. There's a very nice car underneath all that crap.

You'll probably be quite appalled/impressed with what comes out of the steam vac. I did my office couple of weeks ago, and the recovery tank was full of nasty black water. But it looks so much better. And several people at my office were so impressed by the difference that my steam vac has been out on loan ever since. :rofl: Three people have already taken it home, and there's at least one more person on my borrow list before I get it back to do my own house.

Playdrv4me
09-23-10, 01:02 PM
I don't know if you did the glove-box door but that is such a wide expanse of material it will do wonders for the feel of the whole interior once that is cleaned.

hueterm
09-23-10, 01:42 PM
As filthy as the thing is, and considering your aptitude for working on these things, wouldn't it be worth taking the seats out and really cleaning under them? There could be many dead things under there that you can't see...

Night Wolf
09-23-10, 02:20 PM
As filthy as the thing is, and considering your aptitude for working on these things, wouldn't it be worth taking the seats out and really cleaning under them? There could be many dead things under there that you can't see...

The front seats will be coming out so that I can fully clean them, fix anything thats broke on them and clean under them. The back seat is already out.


I don't know if you did the glove-box door but that is such a wide expanse of material it will do wonders for the feel of the whole interior once that is cleaned.

I know, which is why I am kinda leaving it for last :)

Well, not last. Today I sat in the drivers seat and did most things within reach that I didn't get already.... top of dash, visor etc... I tried a little piece of headliner and it cleaned up well! But the cheap paper towels started shreading due to the texture, I'll do it again later. Next time I'll sit in the passenger seat and get all that stuff. I had to go over the dash about 10 times until it was finally clean, but it's worth it.

Little by little it is coming together. I don't want to get too caught up though, I still have brake fluid to flush and bleed the whole brake/clutch system as well as ATF for the power steering. Plus the two transmission mounts I bought for the e30 should be the same ones for this car, I'll throw those on and rebuild the whole shift linkage.... this is just little odds and ends I can do with parts I already have.

I don't mind spending time on this car, but right now it is not getting money thrown at it just because.... so I am not looking for perfect seats or recover them etc... but I want to atleast clean it up. The wool covers sound like a godd possibility, I'll have to see what I can find. The steering wheel cleaned up nice, the leather shift boot should clean up well and I'll sew it back together... even the shifter knob is leather, and should clean up well.

hueterm
09-23-10, 02:41 PM
Nice looking sheepskin covers on that car would look pretty cool....

orconn
09-23-10, 03:58 PM
You can find good quality sheepskin car seat covers at Costco, probablyat Sam's Club too. Probably the most economical yet practical solution to worn, cracked leather seats. They really are cooler in the Summer, warmer in the Winter.

hueterm
09-23-10, 04:16 PM
For your car, a pair of custom fit covers from autosportcatalog.com is $569. (Which, LOL is more than the car cost...)

orconn
09-23-10, 04:26 PM
For your car, a pair of custom fit covers from autosportcatalog.com is $569. (Which, LOL is more than the car cost...)

Yes, "custom fitted" sheepskin seat covers can be outrageously priced. From Costco they are around $39.95 per seat, and they are good quality real lambs wool. Certainly good enough for a DD. I used them on my Mercedes CLK (because the seats were too hard for my thin butt) and was very pleased with them, even after two year's use. Hueterm you've probably got decent ones at Sam's Club.

hueterm
09-23-10, 04:32 PM
Autosport is pricey, but they do have good stuff......their custom covers are awesome....

ben.gators
09-23-10, 05:28 PM
Ugh.....It seems that as you said removing front seats is inevitable..... Cleaning the car with wiping it with towels will not help a lot... remove interior parts as much as possible, and do a very deep cleaning.... In such cases mechanical issues do not worry me a lot. They are repairable by couple of hundreds of dollars for parts from junkyards and a bit mechanical knowledge. But interior nope! It is hard to find clean interior parts from junkyards..... and it is not cheap to recondition interior...

orconn
09-23-10, 05:32 PM
Autosport is pricey, but they do have good stuff......their custom covers are awesome....

Sounds like Yuppie bait to me. First you pay $65,000. for your Bimmer (etc.) with the leather interior option, then you get "custom fitted" shearling seat covers so the leather seats won't get worn. Reminds me of the see-thru plastic seat covers for the living room upholstered sofa and chairs that were popular among certain groups not too long ago! As the saying goes there's an ass for every seat!

hueterm
09-23-10, 05:39 PM
I actually LOVE sheepskin. There is a worn set on my 70 GP, that wasn't any good when it was new. Nice ones are SO comfy...

orconn
09-23-10, 06:00 PM
I actually LOVE sheepskin. There is a worn set on my 70 GP, that wasn't any good when it was new. Nice ones are SO comfy...

I agree!

77CDV
09-23-10, 08:54 PM
If tobacco tar can do that to a car's interior, just imagine what it will do to your lungs!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-23-10, 08:58 PM
I don't see many E28's. Did they not sell as well as the E30 and E34's?

Night Wolf
09-24-10, 02:10 AM
This car is defnitly not getting seat covers that cost more then I paid for the whole car, atleast not right now. Those universal sheepskin/wool covers mentioned would probably be really good, should blend well with the tan interior and clean up the torn seat... plus add some comfort. I'm not looking for perfect with this car, just "presentable" for an old car... which is why the outside needed to be cleaned, yet the fading paint is not a big deal.


Ugh.....It seems that as you said removing front seats is inevitable..... Cleaning the car with wiping it with towels will not help a lot... remove interior parts as much as possible, and do a very deep cleaning.... In such cases mechanical issues do not worry me a lot. They are repairable by couple of hundreds of dollars for parts from junkyards and a bit mechanical knowledge. But interior nope! It is hard to find clean interior parts from junkyards..... and it is not cheap to recondition interior...

I told myself in the past I wouldn't buy a car from a smoker, and when I say I was ready to walk away from this car - I mean it.... but then I drove it and I could see past the clunking rear diff (diff mount) and horrible heavy rattling from the front end (drag link) that this was a solid car.

As for cleaning the inteiror... yeah, things really do need to be removed to be cleaned, but I am doing that within reason. I am not going to remove the dash, but I did remove the various switches and clean them as well as around where they go etc... The seats will be removed and I'll probably pull the center console to clean.

I agree that interior stuff can be hard/expensive to find. Atleast for this car, the good thing is that most stuff is not broken/missing. These old BMW's are well supported and parts can still be ordered thru BMW at any dealer... you'll pay for it, but it is there. The missing drivers door handle - that I later found the broken bits inside the door after a failed glue attempt - is only $10 online. I'm not sure about the e28, but BMW still supports the e30 like it was made yesterday. Just about every part can be bought for them including an entire dash. It is around $600, but it is better than new as it is made in the new, upgraded BMW material. The e30 dash is 1-piece, the e28 dash appears to be two piece, and on my car, with the upper black portion being one. My dash is cracked, but it isn't enough to bother me for a daily driver. There is a nearly crack free dash on ebay now for $175... but mine will stay.

With my car, the matter really is a DEEP cleaning on everything. The dash and console are cleaning up real nice. I'll clean the seats when they come out. The headliner is vinyl - amazing that after 24 years it dosen't need to be replaced or anything. Also great in that it cleans easy, I'll try it with the steam vac otherwise I'll be scrubbing it. Finally the carpet will get a deep cleaning with the steam vac.

Cleaning up the interior, atleast on this particular car is just a matter of being time consuming, not difficult or expensive.

The entire sound system will get rewired. Someone redneck wired the head unit and it is all messed up, it is hooked to constant power, not switched power and the speaker wires are ran horribly... rear wires are in the console, then pop out and just go across the carpet then under the rear seat. Power antenna is shot, IIRC I have a spare from the e30, but I'm just gonna get a universal fixed mast from the auto parts store and install it. It sure is nice to listen to music in an enclosed car though... that is one of the bad parts of a convertible - not made at all for sound reproduction. The factory 24 year old BMW premium sound speakers are quite impressive.

An Autocheck was run - the car comes up clean which I was able to tell by looking at it, but it's good to know. The first report was near Atlanta in 1997. I can tell by looking under it, that it was a Southern car... but maybe even a GA car. It says 3 owners (not counting me) which would put the guy I bought it from being the 3rd, the guy he bought it from (that hit the deer) the 2nd, and than an original owners. Hopefully the car was in a caring home most of its' life.

But perhaps the real interesting thing is the odometer.... which stopping in 2003. It bugs me, because I really would like to know how many miles are on the car, but this is the odometer reporting:


144,319 07/31/1997
170,527 08/21/2001
170,624 08/27/2001
181,708 09/07/2002
189,305 09/10/2003
189,305 11/28/2006

So between 7/97 and 8/01 (4 years) there were 26k miles put on the car(average of 6.5k/year), than '01-'02 was 11k..... the average miles/year from 1997-2002 is 7500miles/year.

Keeping that average, when the odometer stopped in 2003, there would be an extra ~53,000 miles on the car, which would put the current miles at around 245k or so.

When I remove the cluster to fix the odometer gears, paint the needles and whatever else I can think of, I am going to try and advance the odometer to this number.... probably 250k by the time I am ready to do that. Atleast on the e30 it was a real pain as there was no real easy way to advance it other than by running it with some type of motor (long time)... just to happened to be that the odo in the '92 318iC was broke as well, so I swapped the cluster over to add 5k to it (I watched it stop turning in the red car).

I'd say this 528e, to me, looks like a 250k 80s BMW (they are quite durable) and if I can get the odometer near that, I'll just consider it the miles actually on the car. The crazy part is just how well the car performs. Besides the bad rear diff mount and drag link in the steering - for an otherwise neglected car it performs well. Besides the totally shot shifter linkage on the transmission, it shifts great, feels tight and the synchros are not worn, it even down shifts without double clutching nice. I'd say overall, the transmission feels better then the e30 with 140k - it was also behind the economy engine with a lower redline, plus the car was probably driven a lot more relaxed then the e30 over its' life but still. The engine needs a tune up bad - I'm interested to see what the distrubutor cap and rotor looks like.... it still starts quick, idles smooth and pulls strong. This engine behaves like a new engine. The rest of the steering and suspension feels tight, but I'll be able to give a better review of that once the broken parts are repalced. The car is also riding on a set of mismatched, bald tires, and the one rear tire is a 15.3" (390mm) wheel while the others are 14".

I see hope and potential in this car. I was passively looking around for an economy car with a manual transmission... something to drive to work and back or whenever I wanted a more secure vehicle etc... I think I really scored well with the 528e. It is getting 27-30mpg as-is without a tuneup (checked it again when I went into town) on regular gas, yet it is a 5-series BMW. It's got a manual transmission and all the gadgets an 80s luxury car would have. It has the comfort seats with arm rest and has a nice ride, but also handles like it should. The 4-door configuration is really nice for a daily driver, and as much as I enjoy convertibles, having a fixed roof sure is a relief from all the quirks a convertible brings. Actually with all the windows and lower belt line, plus the sunroof open, the car has a very open and airy feel to it. Once cleaned up, the car won't look trashy, but not show quality... just an "old car" which is exactly what I am looking for. I'm looking forward to driving this car.

Other odd things to fix:

The passenger front door will not open, I remvoed the door panel and someone tried messing with the striker in the past (door is half latched). The latch dosen't appear to be wanting to relase at all, though all the rods are fine. I've searched about the deadbolt system and it may be engaged - in which case it can only be released with the key. The key I have works the ignition and drivers door (which on the inside has a broken linkage) but not the passenger door, glove box or trunk. The ignition may have been replaced at some point, though I have heard that I can bring the VIN to BMW and they can make me a new key.

Also the heater isn't working. I found this out when I did the coolant flush as the cooling system built up pressure and worked great, but no coolant was flowing to/from the heater core or on the hoses for the heater. IIRC there is a thermo valve of some sort that controls that. I didn't worry much about it as I plan on replacing all the hoses and cleaning up the cooling system (such as eliminating the throttle body heater etc...) and I'll look into it then.

The radio was installed..... badly, and when moving the defrost slider it goes about half way before getting stuck. Also something is going on with the sliders as no matter what position they are in... all closed, all open or 1 at a time open/closed etc.... air only blows out of the dash vents. It should be easy to figure out as all the doors are cable operated (80s 7-series used a real fun push button vaccume operated system) and once apart and in there I should be able to see why the cables are either not attachted to the controls or doors.

Then there is the craptastic security system. I'm hoping this thing was spliced into the cars wiring and not rerouted everything, but I gotta see. I thought about just leaving it in there, but I want it gone.

I've got my work set for me.... probably in a month or so I'll start daily driving it.... and ~30mpg is a lot better than 14, plus I miss driving a BMW, so I'll probably be driving it a whole lot. I'm looking forward to taking it on a roadtrip and see how it does on the highway.... if it is a bigger, and considerably more comfortable version of the e30 (chassis/suspension, seats etc...) then it should be an amazing car on the highway. The e30 with the sport seats, to me, was very comfortable, but the e28 with the comfort seats (and side arm rests on the seats!) is more like old school Caddy comfy.... but not... I'd say it's halfway between the Sport seats and an 80s Cadillac... which is a nice comfort/support blend.

Jesda
09-24-10, 02:21 AM
Porsche is good about offering parts for classics too, so good that they've developed a brand new navigation head unit for classic 911s.

This then makes me angrier about the way GM brushes off early 4th gen Eldos and Sevilles.

Jesda
09-24-10, 02:27 AM
A lot of that sounds like the same issues I had with my '90 E34. I had all kinds of door lock problems. Eventually I figured out that if I closed the door, turned the key, and then held the key to the right (or was it left?) while bumping my butt on the door just below the lock cylinder, I could get it to lock. The whole locking system is full of plastic parts that get brittle and break.

As for your climate control issue, I think your car uses the same system my E34 did. I had this saw-shaped electronic circuit board, cant remember where it is on the car, that was called "THE SWORD". You had to resolder or replace a bunch of stuff on it to get the climate controls to work correctly.

Instead of doing that, I just played with all the sliders until I found a magic combination that got the heat or AC to come on. It really was like solving a puzzle.

http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Maintenance/Electrical/Sword.htm
http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Maintenance/Electrical/Data/Sword.jpg

Night Wolf
09-24-10, 02:36 AM
I don't see many E28's. Did they not sell as well as the E30 and E34's?

How many 1981-1988 model cars do you see on average? and how many of them are imports? Back in the mid 80s BMW's were not as widely accepted and imported in as large numbers as they are now.

e34 replaced the e28 from 1989-1995, so being newer and more were imported, more are seen.

I actually don't even remember the last time I saw an e28 on the streets, that's ok though... I like unique :)

Night Wolf
09-24-10, 02:38 AM
Porsche is good about offering parts for classics too, so good that they've developed a brand new navigation head unit for classic 911s.

This then makes me angrier about the way GM brushes off early 4th gen Eldos and Sevilles.

In 2003, I went to a Cadillac dealer to get touch up paint for my 1993 Coupe DeVille... at the time, a 10-year old car. My response was "We no longer carry that stuff for your car.... in fact GM usually stops carrying most things like that after 10 years"

Night Wolf
09-24-10, 02:56 AM
A lot of that sounds like the same issues I had with my '90 E34. I had all kinds of door lock problems. Eventually I figured out that if I closed the door, turned the key, and then held the key to the right (or was it left?) while bumping my butt on the door just below the lock cylinder, I could get it to lock. The whole locking system is full of plastic parts that get brittle and break.

As for your climate control issue, I think your car uses the same system my E34 did. I had this saw-shaped electronic circuit board, cant remember where it is on the car, that was called "THE SWORD". You had to resolder or replace a bunch of stuff on it to get the climate controls to work correctly.

Instead of doing that, I just played with all the sliders until I found a magic combination that got the heat or AC to come on. It really was like solving a puzzle.

http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Maintenance/Electrical/Sword.htm
http://www.bmwe34.net/E34main/Maintenance/Electrical/Data/Sword.jpg

the late model e28's had the "deadbolt" system, I'm not sure if that is engaged on the passenger door or not as the inside and outside handles move full travel as well as the door lock knob. The latch is an old school type latch but the linkages are not allowing the latch to release - it must be jambed somehow. It dosen't help that the ignition key I have dosen't work in the passenger door. The central locking on both front doors still works though. The key works in the drivers door but inside the linkage is broke.... I wonder if someone swapped over the drivers door lock and ignition at one point.

The whole lock and door mechanism is all metal in the doors.... from what you've described on the e34 between the doors and cooling system, BMW really cheapened out and went to all the plastic stuff. The e28 still uses metal on all those items... probably why the darn things just don't quit.

Deadbolt system:

http://ifitsgotanengine.wordpress.com/2006/10/02/engineering-overkill-part-2-bmw-door-locks/

I never knew about that system before... apparently the e30 should have it too.

From what I can tell the e28 dosen't use that sword.... but I am still researching it.

Some neat things about the e28 I didn't know... the black plastic triangle thing on the rear deck is to hold the middle lap belt when not in use. Also on the bottom of the steering column is a lever, at first I thought it was for tilt but it is for telescope wheel, thats neat. Then other things were similar to the e30. There is a helpful website mye28.com, though it is no where near the size of the e30 sites... still a great place for info.

A neat little write up on the 528e:

http://www.automobilesdeluxe.tv/owners-retrospective-1988-bmw-e28-528e/

Playdrv4me
09-24-10, 12:23 PM
Keep this thread and the E30 one going! This is rapidly becoming one of the most popular items here!

drewsdeville
09-24-10, 12:38 PM
^^^

I continue to check up on Ricks threads just because he's probably the best here when it comes to written communication. Honestly, I really don't care about the BMW's either way, but his threads are fun to read. His posts are organized, descriptive and are all around very informative. Also, I can relate to a lot of the ways he improvises when running into roadblocks like, for example, the rear wheel bearing install.

Keep up the good work, and keep the updates rolling.

Night Wolf
09-24-10, 12:59 PM
Thanks! it is a lot of work now between the two cars, and I am working every Saturday to help offset the costs, which only leaves Sunday as the full day I can devote to the cars... but it is nice in that I can do a little here and there on them. The Jeep has been a little neglected since it is my only running vehicle, which is why I am excited to start daily driving the 528e, then I can drop the gas tank/skid on the Jeep and see where my small evap leak is coming from. Until then, the Jeep is marching on strong.... darn thing really is about the perfect all around utility vehicle. I've personally used it to move entire cut down trees out of my yard, it brought the cars home etc. It's due for an oil change, which I'll probably do today.

Night Wolf
09-24-10, 02:37 PM
L.O.L

I just added this car to my insurance policy, liability with 100/300/100 is only $65/6 months.... or $130/year.... or $10.50/month. It is NOT classic car insurance either.

To add comprehensive (but not collosion) which is fire/theft/vandalism/acts of nature etc... with a $250 deductible would be $205/6 months. I may change it in the future but for now it is just liability.

I'm sure it's cheaper than if it was the only car on the policy due to multi car discount... but the Jeep is around $110/month for full coverage.

$10/month insurance and 30mpg from a 5-series BMW, I keep liking this car more and more :)

ben.gators
09-24-10, 02:59 PM
Wow, 250K miles on a BMW, and I guess engine is the original one! I really did not know these cars can last so far....
The problem is interior imperfections are always in front of the eyes and always bug me when I am inside the car! Mechanical issues are not in front of eyes and they just sometimes manifest themselves as some noises, fluctuations, etc. and I can live with a mechanical issue much better than an small crack on seat or a bit dirty dash..... That is why I always take care of interior problems much faster than mechanical issues....

By the way, about headliners, I have heard that cleaning with steam cleaner may loosen the glues and finally detach it! I always use a clean wet towel without any product or detergent and clean the headliners by tapping with minimal pressure. But I am not sure about BMW, headliners might be much solid than that of my GM Cars.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-24-10, 06:52 PM
10/month insurance and 30mpg from a 5-series BMW, I keep liking this car more and more :)

Yeah, but aren't old cars typically, by and large, cheaper to insure than newer ones?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-24-10, 06:53 PM
How many 1981-1988 model cars do you see on average? and how many of them are imports? Back in the mid 80s BMW's were not as widely accepted and imported in as large numbers as they are now.

e34 replaced the e28 from 1989-1995, so being newer and more were imported, more are seen.

I actually don't even remember the last time I saw an e28 on the streets, that's ok though... I like unique :)

Interesting. I surely don't see as many '80s era BMW's as I do Mercedes-Benz, and I see far less '80s era Audis, but M-B got big in the states long before BMW and Audi did. What car made BMW so big in sales numbers? Was it the E30?

orconn
09-24-10, 09:01 PM
Interesting. I surely don't see as many '80s era BMW's as I do Mercedes-Benz, and I see far less '80s era Audis, but M-B got big in the states long before BMW and Audi did. What car made BMW so big in sales numbers? Was it the E30?

The first automotive break through for BMW was the 1600 coupe in the late 1960's. The 1600s and 2002s became popular on either coast in the early 1970's. These were far from luxury cars at the time but rather sort of higher grade sporty economy cars. In the early 1970's BMW also imported the larger 1600 sedan which won some recognition as the sport sedan with the "Bavaria." But BMW had nothing that was comparable to the higher end Mercedes 250SEs sedans and Jaguar XJ6s of that decade.

Audi only had any impact in the American market starting in the 1980's with the very early '80 Audi 5000S sedan and the coupe that became the first "Quattro." Road & Track was a big promoter of the early Audis and especially the 1984 Audi 5000S's of spontaneous accelleration fame!

Mercedes first real thrust into the American auto market started in 1958 when Mercedes-Benz was sold through Packard dealerships. Mercedes had gained a certain following among urban professionals on both coasts. Some of the kids in my high school had Mecedes 160 sedans (even slower than my 300D), it was only the 280S and SE that were catching on (the 300SLs and sedan were way to pricey new for upper midle class buyers). Mercedes really began to catch on in the early 1970's with the 450SE sedan, the junior Mercedes were still considered kind of a more expensive economy car (which in fact they were) but not really a prestige car. The full Mercedes line didn't really catch on until the down sized for runner of the "C' class came in in the early eighties.

It was the nineteen eighties when BMW and Mercedes really took off as desirable prestige cars outside the wealthier suburbs of major Easter and Claifornia cities.

Playdrv4me
09-24-10, 11:57 PM
Mercedes is able to (or was able to at one point) lay claim to the fact that there are more older Mercedes on the road than any other vehicle make ever produced. Curiously, Mercedes did better with larger more luxurious vehicles early on, while BMW probed the bottom end of the market and backfilled what Mercedes was ignoring. The 190 was developed as a competitor to the 3 Series and that eventually became the C Class. It has never come close to de-throning BMW in that market. The competition is much more heated in all the size categories above this.

Night Wolf
09-25-10, 12:55 AM
Wow, 250K miles on a BMW, and I guess engine is the original one! I really did not know these cars can last so far....
The problem is interior imperfections are always in front of the eyes and always bug me when I am inside the car! Mechanical issues are not in front of eyes and they just sometimes manifest themselves as some noises, fluctuations, etc. and I can live with a mechanical issue much better than an small crack on seat or a bit dirty dash..... That is why I always take care of interior problems much faster than mechanical issues....

By the way, about headliners, I have heard that cleaning with steam cleaner may loosen the glues and finally detach it! I always use a clean wet towel without any product or detergent and clean the headliners by tapping with minimal pressure. But I am not sure about BMW, headliners might be much solid than that of my GM Cars.

These 80s BMW's really are like little German tanks roaming the street. When people say "miles don't mean anything" - it really is true.

Everything about these cars reeks of sheer durability - from the engines to the chassis to even the interiors. The cars are so over built and over engineered - it's no wonder they are not made anymore. The new ones just don't compare.

Jesda mentions about the e34, the 5-series that replaced the e28 (went back to the forward-opening hood, very cool). I like them and think they look nice as well, The engines themselves were durable but as Jesda mentioned, the whole cooling system consisted of plastic bits that fails over time and even the internals of the doors for the locks had plastic parts. Same with the 3-seires, the e36 - plastic all over, dozens of chassis and engine sensors etc... This kind of stuff simply isn't on the e28 and e30

Take this particular 528e for example - the car was neglected badly and it shows. Even then, a car that was a single tow away from the junkyard is able to clean up and keep performing quite well.... and with what? several hundred dollars worth of parts and a few weekends of work? That's why I have since made it mandatory that the car must be major accident free and major rust/rot free.... everything else just keeps going and going. When I seperated the transmission from the engine on the e30, the original clutch still had a rather healthy part of life left - after 140k miles of what looked like hard driving.

The 80s BMW world is vastly different then the 80s+ Cadillac world. What I mean by that is - even today within hours of looking you are bound to find atleast half a dozen 80s RWD Broughams in mint condition with low (under 100k) miles for a few thousand dollars. Same goes for nearly any Cadillac made in the last 25 years... if you look long enough and are willing to spend maybe just a bit more - you'll find some old person owned Caddy in FL that has been garaged its whole life.

That was the background I was from... I was completely into Caddys and knew that given enough time, nearly any year/model Cadillac in the last 25 years could be had with low miles.

Then I was introduced to 80s BMW's by way of the e30 by DaveSmed from this site. First thing I noticed was it was kinda hard to find an e30 under 150k and nearly impossible to find one under 100k.... that was when I first learned about the "miles don't mean a thing" law. It took a while to get used to, but slowly I started grasping that concept. It all comes down to the way the car was maintained and treated - neglect it and it'll show. Take care of it... and miles really don't mean anything.

The cars are so durable. It was explained to me as such: "There are not a lot of rubber parts to fail, but the rubber parts it does have are difficult to change". More dependent with age, then miles, the rubber parts will fail. Even then, a dedicated weekend will have the rear subframe dropped, totally rebuilt and installed again. The next weekend the whole front end can be taken apart, rebuilt and put back together.

The cars are not flintstone mobiles either. Both the e28 and e30 have a modern digital fuel injection system - with the e30 running a newer system, both still have one injector per cylinder. Both cars have 4-wheel disc brakes with ABS - standard. Both have power windows/heated mirrors/locks/cruise control/delay wipers/on-board trip computer as well as check panel etc... The e30 has manual sport seats with all sorts of adjustments, the e28 has power comfort seats. Both have a pretty darn good factory premium sound system with seperate tweeters too.

One of the reasons why I like them so much is because how perfect, to me, they are as a car. They have all the options and features I personally like in a vehicle (mentioned above) but not too much like newer cars that becomes annoying or tries to tell you how to operate. I don't mind ABS, but I really don't want traction control or stability control or all the other nonsense on newer cars. Because these cars were made for driving, the chassis, even from the 80s is perfectly suited for daily driving on todays roads - the cars handle great and ride nice too. They don't feel old, outdated or unsafe - the whole car inspires confidence in driving, which is important.

All that, and you can buy these things cheap, give them a little love and care and it'll serve you for a long time.... or spend more and buy one already mint - but either way, you've got a car ready to drive to the moon and back.... several times over.


Yeah, but aren't old cars typically, by and large, cheaper to insure than newer ones?

but 10 bucks a month? Closest I've come to was around $25/month, and that was for the '79 DeVille which had classic car insurance, the 528e is not classic insurance - it is regular.


Interesting. I surely don't see as many '80s era BMW's as I do Mercedes-Benz, and I see far less '80s era Audis, but M-B got big in the states long before BMW and Audi did. What car made BMW so big in sales numbers? Was it the E30?

It all happened before my time, so kinda hard to say.... to me from knowing the cars and looking back... well, the 3-series has been BMW's strongest point which they are well known for. I would say the e30 really put BMW on the map as for establishing themselves in the US - especially with the e30s history in racing (which at the time was current) and watching episodes of shows like 90210 also shows that.... but I don't think the e30 was responsible for the huge BMW boom in the US.... I leave that to the e36 - it was larger and built more to what Americans accepted over the much smaller/nimbler e30. It is also the car, IMO that really gave BMW the whole yuppie image, and also was the end of the "old" BMW that made cars with durability before bells and whistles.

Night Wolf
09-25-10, 01:06 AM
Mercedes is able to (or was able to at one point) lay claim to the fact that there are more older Mercedes on the road than any other vehicle make ever produced. Curiously, Mercedes did better with larger more luxurious vehicles early on, while BMW probed the bottom end of the market and backfilled what Mercedes was ignoring. The 190 was developed as a competitor to the 3 Series and that eventually became the C Class. It has never come close to de-throning BMW in that market. The competition is much more heated in all the size categories above this.

MB made high end luxury cars for a loooong time, entry level cars weren't their thing. BMW was the opposite, specializing since the 2002 in smaller, well balanced cars made for the driver, which is why cars like the 3-series is natural for BMW.... because that is what they are built off of. Also why BMW struggled at first with upscale luxury cars like the eariler 7-series cars, MB was way ahead of the game.

I agree, the W201 chassis (190e) was darn incredible and they have yet to make another worthy entry level car since. The W201 compared to the e30 was better in some ways and worse then others - but both were outstanding cars. The W201 actually had more DTM wins than the e30 IIRC as well. A 190e 2.3-16v Cosworth is considerably cheaper than an e30M3.... and I could picture myself owning one some day.

If I wanted an all out luxury car, only for comfort and not concerned about "driving" then I would go with MB over BMW.... atleast in the 80s and 90s.

There is a late model W126 local that has been here since I moved here, I even met the guy at the gas station once before. The car now has a for sale sign on it, I stopped and looked - not showroom new and it has its blemishes, but the odo is at 326k IIRC (not a diesel either) those things really don't stop and I would still really like to have one as I think they are some of the best looking Mercedes. The sign only had a phone number and no price - and I know that whatever he was asking for it is more then I have to spend on another car I don't need.... but man it is nice.

Jesda
09-25-10, 01:12 AM
I find new cars to be a bit cheaper to insure than some 10 year old cars, but when you get beyond 10 years its pretty darn near free.

What I find most interesting about 20 year old BMWs is that they all have TONS of miles. They still, to this day, get driven daily. Few are garage queens saved for Sunday afternoons. People who own them flog them, and they can take it.

I once looked at an E30 that had 200k on the probably unoriginal odometer, but the last record showed 250k back in the mid 90s. This means the car likely had 300-400k on it, and it was still being driven daily by its owner who was asking, I believe, two grand. I passed on it because who the hell wants an automatic in that kind of car.

The E36 was a low point but they're still fun to drive. E46 got more substantive, and the E90/E91/E92 335 is a performance benchmark. I think the European makers caught on to the fact that the typical American luxury buyer is a leaser. The 300,000 mile type of long term owner is rare.

gdwriter
09-25-10, 01:12 AM
The 80s BMW world is vastly different then the 80s+ Cadillac world. What I mean by that is - even today within hours of looking you are bound to find atleast half a dozen 80s RWD Broughams in mint condition with low (under 100k) miles for a few thousand dollars. Same goes for nearly any Cadillac made in the last 25 years... if you look long enough and are willing to spend maybe just a bit more - you'll find some old person owned Caddy in FL that has been garaged its whole life.

That was the background I was from... I was completely into Caddys and knew that given enough time, nearly any year/model Cadillac in the last 25 years could be had with low miles.And even if it doesn't have low miles, there are plenty of old Caddys that just keep going. As most of you know, Cruella crossed the 260,000-mile mark in May when I was driving her cross country to give to my niece, and Josiah's '93 Deville has also passed 200,000 miles. Neither of these cars look like they're half the age or mileage that they really are.

And I still see lots of early 90s DeVilles on the road, more so than many other cars of similar age. I think it probably helps that the original owners were older and well-to-do, so they took good care of their cars. But that so many are still going strong tells me GM and Cadillac hadn't completely lost the ability to build a good car.

gdwriter
09-25-10, 01:15 AM
Just curious, but I assume you've posted a similar thread on a BMW forum, Rick. What kinds of responses are you getting there?

Jesda
09-25-10, 01:18 AM
Cadillac corrosion protection and paint has always been pretty impressive. That's one unfortunate thing about BMWs prior to E46 -- the paint is thin. You don't get rust, but the paint is always badly oxidized. They put filler on all the joints to keep the cancer out, but I remember waxing my E34 and getting green paint all over my rags.

There's a bright red 1995 E34 in Arizona for $5300, 540 with a manual. I know the owner. I passed on it because the paint was starting to fade on the roof.

gdwriter
09-25-10, 01:29 AM
Cadillac corrosion protection and paint has always been pretty impressive.Despite a good number of rock chips on the hood and a couple of places where the clear coat was gone, I was always impressed with how nicely the original paint on Cruella shined up with a good wax job. Before going to North Dakota, it had always been an Oregon car, so it was never exposed to salt.

My '99 Accord, however, had extremely crappy paint. If you looked at it the wrong way, it would scratch. I was always careful getting out of Betty when I parked next to the Accord in the garage, but if I so much as touched it with Betty's door, there would be a mark. And Honda didn't see fit to install any kind of rub strip on the Accord coupe, so there was absolutely no protection. After six years and 70,000 miles, both sides of that car were riddled with dings and scratches.

I sold the Accord to my sister for my niece in 2005. When I went to my niece's high school graduation in 2008, the clear coat on most of the roof was gone, and it looked like crap. She ended up having to have it repainted. From a mechanical standpoint, the Accord was a very durable car, but from a paint standpoint, it was garbage.

Night Wolf
09-25-10, 01:35 AM
The other day I cleaned out the trunk and yesterday I pressure washed all the liners down.

But first it was time to do an oil change on the Jeep. Motorcraft makes a good and cheap filter. The FL-1A (same filter the 4.6 in my '96 Town Car took) fits the AMC 4.0 I6, yet offers twice the capacity of a stock filter :cool2:. The oil pan is damaged from hitting it against a rock, fine for now - but on the list of things to get fixed once I am not relying on it everyday.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/trunk001.jpg

The joys of having a paint job your don't care about - especially on the hood, I'm not even concerned about trying to make it look nice in the future (it'll get repainted)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/trunk002.jpg

trunk before:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28062.jpg

and after... the trunklid liner is still on the list of things to be cleaned. It appears I am missing the part that goes against the back seat - no big deal. Depending on just how much I really use this car when it is driving... as just a knock around car, or perhaps often and for roadtrips or anytime I don't want to drive a convertible (which seems like the case... I already like this car a lot) I'll probably put a basic sound system in it, so a sub will go against the back seat anyway. trunk seal is shot - it'll be getting a new one.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/trunk003.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/trunk004.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/trunk005.jpg

I didn't have much time left before I had to leave for work... but I just wanted to see how it would clean up.... again, this is just with the 50/50 Awesome/water mix - and not actually treated with any product....

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/trunk006.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/degrime/trunk007.jpg

I see a bright (and clean) future for this car :) I really like the two-tone black/tan interior.... they are really nice colors that won't go out of date.... I dunno if it is just me and because I am into these cars, but the whole interior (once cleaned!) looks like it has aged very well.

Night Wolf
09-25-10, 01:44 AM
Cadillac corrosion protection and paint has always been pretty impressive. That's one unfortunate thing about BMWs prior to E46 -- the paint is thin. You don't get rust, but the paint is always badly oxidized. They put filler on all the joints to keep the cancer out, but I remember waxing my E34 and getting green paint all over my rags.

There's a bright red 1995 E34 in Arizona for $5300, 540 with a manual. I know the owner. I passed on it because the paint was starting to fade on the roof.

The e30 used single stange paint while the e28 has base coat/clear coat... and it's obvious the clear coat is shot. I can't speak much for the BC/CC paints, but the single stage paints hold up darn well. It is well-known in the e30 world that if a neglected car has single stage paint - it'll clean up.

If you were pulling paint off the e34, did it have single stage? Perhaps the wax was a little too strong for it.... although every time you wax a car, atleast with single stage paint, you are basically removing a very fine layer of finish - I get red on the rag after waxing the e30 and there are some spots on edges were I rubbed through the paint.

With clearcoat paint, you are waxing the clearcoat and since it is harder then paint, depending on the product used it'll either cut through some of the CC or just polish it over.

Kinda why I am so hesitant about repainting the e30. The car has lots of body dings and dents (far more then the e28 actually) but the paint is still in overall good condition and it's hard to beat a factory paint job.

I'm going to clean up the e28's paint and see what I can do with it - but if I plan on making the car look much better, it'll need to be repainted... and another reason why I was interested in this particular car and the fading paint dosen't bother me (other then that it really dosen't bother me) is that body and paint work have been a weak point from me, something I have been very hesistant to venture into.... but I'd like to attempt to repaint a car myself and this e28 is the perfect canidate for the future...


Wow, 250K miles on a BMW, and I guess engine is the original one! I really did not know these cars can last so far....
The problem is interior imperfections are always in front of the eyes and always bug me when I am inside the car! Mechanical issues are not in front of eyes and they just sometimes manifest themselves as some noises, fluctuations, etc. and I can live with a mechanical issue much better than an small crack on seat or a bit dirty dash..... That is why I always take care of interior problems much faster than mechanical issues....

By the way, about headliners, I have heard that cleaning with steam cleaner may loosen the glues and finally detach it! I always use a clean wet towel without any product or detergent and clean the headliners by tapping with minimal pressure. But I am not sure about BMW, headliners might be much solid than that of my GM Cars.

I am just the opposite when it comes to mechanicals. For me - the mechanics of the car are priority. I also want my vehicles to be in condition that I can hop in and drive acorss the country without any extra fear of breaking down - be it this old 528e or an old work truck etc... Which is why I am going through the car and replacing all heavily worn items as well as common failure points - all coolant hoses etc... It may be an old car and not look like anything much, but I want to trust the thing to drive me anywhere I need to go be it across town or across the country. I've got a solid start, now just time to get her up to par.

For me if I had to do a basic break down of importance it would be 1)mechanics 2)interior 3) body. I agree, that a nice interior is important as that is where you spend all the time. The absolute filth of this car was sickening (I felt bad for the car!) but as it is cleaning up - some things don't bother me. The seats will be covered and the cracked dash is one of those things that "is what it is". It is there, but it dosen't bother me. Probably because of what my intentions are for this car - a presentable and totally reliable daily driver.... not a show car. Even the e30's interior has blenishes, I could spend a lot of money to make it perfect - but that is not a show car either, I'm going to actually use the thing - often.

Plus, I kinda like to see an old original, but well-kept car... sort of like it has stood the test of time and is still around to tell its story.

As for the headliner - it is vinyl and was already cleaning up well in a small spot I scrubbed using Awesome. I don't think it is glued up, but I am not sure... it looks to be similar to 60's American cars and 80s Japaneese cars were.

These are pictures from eariler in the thread:

The black plastic triagnle thingy is a place for the middle lap belt buckle to clip into when not being used. Even the side panels are vinyl... should clean up nice

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28047.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/purchase/e28048.jpg

orconn
09-25-10, 01:00 PM
MB made high end luxury cars for a loooong time, entry level cars weren't their thing. BMW was the opposite, specializing since the 2002 in smaller, well balanced cars made for the driver, which is why cars like the 3-series is natural for BMW.... because that is what they are built off of. Also why BMW struggled at first with upscale luxury cars like the eariler 7-series cars, MB was way ahead of the game.

I agree, the W201 chassis (190e) was darn incredible and they have yet to make another worthy entry level car since. The W201 compared to the e30 was better in some ways and worse then others - but both were outstanding cars. The W201 actually had more DTM wins than the e30 IIRC as well. A 190e 2.3-16v Cosworth is considerably cheaper than an e30M3.... and I could picture myself owning one some day.

If I wanted an all out luxury car, only for comfort and not concerned about "driving" then I would go with MB over BMW.... atleast in the 80s and 90s.

There is a late model W126 local that has been here since I moved here, I even met the guy at the gas station once before. The car now has a for sale sign on it, I stopped and looked - not showroom new and it has its blemishes, but the odo is at 326k IIRC (not a diesel either) those things really don't stop and I would still really like to have one as I think they are some of the best looking Mercedes. The sign only had a phone number and no price - and I know that whatever he was asking for it is more then I have to spend on another car I don't need.... but man it is nice.

It is a common misconception, among Americans, that Mercedes traditionally m
ade only "luxury" cars when in fact Mercedes has made "economy" models that were sold in great numbers around the world. In the 1950's Mercedes included spartan economy models among their "ponton" series cars sold in the U.S. The fact that all but the "300" series Mercedes cars were really just mass market Mercedes gussied up for the American market .... and priced for the prestige market, was more of a marketing ploy than a reality that Mercedes was primarily a "luxury car" maker. Americans, have been willing to pay the high price, for Mercedes cars, while the rest of the world were sold Mercedes cars at much more reasonable prices. This marketing ploy has worked well for Mercedes and that along with the myth of ""superior German engineering" has been very successful for Mercedes in America.

I do believe that the longevity of Mercedes-Benz automobiles has had more to do with the econmies where they were sold to the taxi trade than to some intrinsic superior qualities of the cars. For many years before and after the WWII cars siold in less developed and third world countries were maintained and kept running far longer than in the U.S. (the country which until the the 1970's) where car ownership was commonplace as opposed to only owned by the wealthy and haut bourgeoisie in most countries around the world. German, French and, in the former British colonies, British cars were much more price competitive than American cars due to the favorable exchange rates available for cars from those countries. In the years immediately following WWII in countries that had amassed surpluses of U.S. dollars supplying war goods, like Brazil and Argentina, American cars were plentiful and occupied the "prestige" segment of the car market, and also the taxi segemnt.

Playdrv4me
09-25-10, 04:37 PM
Certainly in Germany what we consider an "entry level Luxury" vehicle from the three major German marques is nothing more than a Ford, Chrysler or GM product would be to us. The E Class does HUGE livery and 24 hour car service in Europe, no more special than any Crown Vic here.

Night Wolf
09-26-10, 05:28 AM
And even if it doesn't have low miles, there are plenty of old Caddys that just keep going. As most of you know, Cruella crossed the 260,000-mile mark in May when I was driving her cross country to give to my niece, and Josiah's '93 Deville has also passed 200,000 miles. Neither of these cars look like they're half the age or mileage that they really are.

And I still see lots of early 90s DeVilles on the road, more so than many other cars of similar age. I think it probably helps that the original owners were older and well-to-do, so they took good care of their cars. But that so many are still going strong tells me GM and Cadillac hadn't completely lost the ability to build a good car.

:hmm:

Perhaps you misunderstood what I wrote, as I did not say, nor imply that Cadillacs can not reach high miles.

Several years back (though still true) when Cadillac was pretty much the only car company I cared about and would browse cars often, it was very easy to find any year/model Cadillac in the last 25 years in mint condition and with low miles. A brief autotrader search would bring up a dozen cars at any given time that would fit the criteria. The cars lost value so bad, that I was conditioned into thinking I could find any year/make model of anything, mint with low miles for dirt cheap.

Then I entered the e30 world, and that was not the case - in fact it was impossible. Nearly all the cars had atleast 100k if not 150k or 200k+ and if by chance one with ~80k was found, the thing was pulling in two-three times a compareable car with 150k miles. Not to say these cars were not mint or in good condition - a lot were... but the number on the odometer was high.

That is when I learned that (with som cars) miles don't mean anything. The number on the odometer can display whatever it wants to, and most have broke or are broken by now (brittle plastic odo drive gear). What matters most with 80s era BMWs is the way they were maintained - that is pretty much it. Miles don't mean anything. If one is in the market for a car and finds one that was taken care of by the owner and they can show either via log or recipets various maintenace and preventative maintenace done on the car - you have a solid car, reguardless of miles. Heck even if neglected such as my 528e and just give it a several hundred dollars and a few weekends of your time - you will still have one solid car. Paint condition and interior wear have more to do with care then age/miles as the original paint on my e30 (not a garage queen either) still brings a deep shine while the e28's paint is trashed. The leathers used on the seats and vinyls used on dash/doors are very durable and the worst is leather shrinking and dash cracking both from the sun... and also not being treated with car care products and protected via sun shade etc...

Jesda mentioned about many BMW owners flogging the cars... I did the oil change on the 528e, but it still hasn't had a tune up other then some seafoam through the intake and in the gas. When I drive the car into town on occasion I run it to redline to help clean out the enigne. With probably near 250k on it - the darn thing pulls strong, runs great, shifts smooth and no smoke out the back.

An example of that would be this car.... almost the same as mine - '88 would be Super eta though (still an eta engine but with "i" head, special pistons and Motornic 1.3... peppy)

I saw this and if I had the money this would be THE car to fix up. Original owner - that alone is hard to find, and it is apparent the car was cared for. 275k+ miles and the paint is still shiney and the seats are not torn up. That car was well cared for, mine was neglected - both will run another 250k miles with basic/preventative maintenace.

http://atlanta.craigslist.org/atl/cto/1962615460.html

If I had the money, I'd buy that one, then do a 5spd swap.... actually if I had that amount of money laying around I would probably not buy another car.... hopefully the seller is picky and sells to someone that is into old BMW's and it goes to a good home - meanwhile I saved my 528e from being driven into the junkyard.

The only thing that stops these things would be rust in the snow belt, people crashing them into big things, and on M20-powered cars - nelgecting to change the timing belt.


Just curious, but I assume you've posted a similar thread on a BMW forum, Rick. What kinds of responses are you getting there?

I have shared the progress of Noelle on the two e30 sites I frequent, I linked those threads in the thread here. The responses are postive, with many people relating to the work I've done that they have done in the past, or will be doing in the future. The two main e30 sites are a heavy DIY crowd so seeing these cars get totally overhauled is a bit more common, but still it dosen't get old to see other peoples' work, you can find the linked threads and read what others have to say.

As for the e28... I have yet to share the store anywhere else, simply because I have just been too lazy to register at mye28.com, but I'll probably also share it on the e30 sites, as there are a few e28 owners there.... and the e30 crowd takes well to them.

Since the threads are usually generic, I can copy/paste them to multiple forums. Usually what I do is first post on here and include extra info for the non-BMW crowd, then copy and paste it and just remove whatever little BMW tidbits I added that would be considered common on the e30 sites. Because of the other forums software, once I make a post here, highlight the whole post and copy - it keeps all the formatting such as line spacing and pictures... everything. If I copy/past text, I need to go back and add the paragraph spacing etc... Because of that it hardly requires any extra work to post here, and I figure why not since I've been here since 2003, many have shown interest in the cars and I plan to make a lot of future meets, so if someone likes the car or has questions about it - the whole project will be right here on the site.

Plus... who knows, maybe by some chance someone would get into old BMW's that never thought they would. I can personally attest to that. DaveSmed and I had a lot in common, he had the '68 DeVille I also had the '79 DeVille at the time. I converted my '93 CDV from analog dash to digital using his write up and we talked about all sorts of things. He got the e30 bug and while talking would talk about the car... I remember first saying "but a BMW?" and he schooled me on old school BMW and e30s in particular. It took a while but I was slowly catching on, I first wanted a fixed roof car as convertibles brought more money so that's what I was looking for... in fact I even drove the '89 Brougham out near Savannah to pick up an '84 318i (old m10 4banger) and tow it back on a dolly but the car was totally trashed - not at all as described.

Then I really got interested in convertibles, especially after I test drove a then-new Solstice GXP.... then I thought if I spent a bit more, I could get an e30 convertible. I wanted a 325i because I wanted the I6 and the wonderful sounds it makes that you can really hear with the top down... I also wanted the extras that come on 325i that 318i didn't have... cruise control, fog lights, heated seats, trip computer, check panel etc... I first wanted any color but red, which then changed to only red within a week (there are threads here where I changed that fast in saying what I was looking for) as a lot in my life changed at that time - colors were part of it.

I then narrowed it down to what I wanted and 2 cars came up... a mint car with everything working and looking great in South Florida for $7.5k and what turned out to be Noelle for $2.5k in Nashville.... not having the extra money up front, I went to nashville and met Noelle for the first time... she needed TLC - not yet tot he point the 528e was at, but given the wrong owner would have gotten there. The car showed evidence of being driven hard and after 12 miles I watched the odomter make its last turn. More things were broke on the car then working and the shocks were totally blown out it made the '89 Brougham ride firm in comparison. It didn't matter, the car brought me home with a huge grin on my face - she holds a special place in my heart as she is the car that got me back into cars as a hobby.

My '93 Coupe DeVille ment a lot to me and I really, really liked that car. I was never going to sell it. When it was stolen, my whole passion for cars went with it. I still worked on my vehichles - because I needed them, but for that 2 years or so I lost the whole passion of cars. I wasn't attached to the Isuzu, even though it was a great little truck and I still like them a whole lot. I didn't get attached to the Town Car no matter how hard I tired - even though that was probably the mintest vehicle I've owned in amazing condition and I basically rebuilt the whole car.... and I really didn't even get attached to the '89 brougham my mother gave me when they got their Buick... it was the car I learned to drive in, but the car needed an excessive amount of work and I just bought my house.

But somewhere between Nashville and my house... something crazy happened in that old BMW with trashed suspension that sent me bouncing down the highway with the top down.... for the first time since my '93 Coupe DeVille... I was attached to a car and the passion of enjoying cars as a hobby came back.

That is one of the reasons... probably one of the main reasons why I like that car so much, and she will get all the time/money she requires with no thought at all of resale value or anything - if one car is here to stay, it is that e30.

Night Wolf
09-26-10, 06:29 AM
It was Sunny the whole week (while I was working) then on my only day off (today - Sunday) it is supposed to rain all day. I wanted to remove much of the interior and bring it in the house so I can clean it up if it does rain, so that is what I did after work.

so I removed both rear door panels. Something in the right rear door window is not connected as if you go down with the window, it stays then free falls a bit, but going up is ok. The left rear window motor likes to not mork most of the time, I'll take a look at the whole thing and grease up the motors too

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval003.jpg

I have the vinyl cover for the ash trash, just needs to be reguled

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval005.jpg

then moved on

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval006.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval007.jpg

The stereo install was such a hackjob... grounding out to trim screws, both constant and switched 12v are spliced into the cig lighter (always powered) and there are fuses for twice the amps than what it is rated for in the fuse box. All this will be getting fixed as I'll be rewiring the whole stereo. The cheap Durabrand cd player will stay, but it'll be getting rewired properly.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval008.jpg

Those colored wires go to the crappy security system

Above the glove box is the ECU, Bosch Motronic 1.0 is what it runs. Above that is a 2nd ECU.... a dedicated idle control computer. Motronic 1.3 (such as the e30) is much more advanced and has built in idle control. Ah well, still better than analog fuel injection... and far better than a carb - it works well.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval011.jpg

The eta engine is supposed to redline at 4500rpm with a 5k tach, yet my car has the 6k tach and revs to 5100rpm. At first I thought it was a Super eta, but that was 1988 MY only, plus the last digits on my ECU are 027, which is the older 1.0 system for the eta. I wanted to check it it was chipped (the '92 318iC had a Turner Motorsports chip in it when I bought it and was unaware.... thats a $300 chip) but alas, the prom is stock as it has the sticker with numbers on it. I heard chipping the eta engine really wakes it up - maybe sometime in the future, for now it is fine.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval014.jpg

Got rid of that POS. There is still some wiring I need to address under the hood, like the fuel pump relay that was crudely jumpered... gonna see if it is a matter of a bad relay.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval015.jpg

WEEEEEEEEE

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval018.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval019.jpg

mmmmmmm

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval022.jpg

The sport seats (e30) are all foam, the comfort seats (e28) are springs. The underside of the seat is a series of S-wound metal but the entire seat is support on actual springs, which give it a floating feel and also absorb bumps in the road.

The e30 was offered base with comfort seats and the 535is and M5 had sport seats, they are interchangeable. I thought about putting in the 2nd set of sport seats I have (tan leather in good condition) in the e28, but I think the comfort seats will be a nice feature for my plans with this car... plus I really do like the fold down arm rests. I'm gonna keep these seats and try to find some universal, but nice seat covers for them.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval025.jpg

Can sorta see the springs above... and a bit here...

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval026.jpg

Night Wolf
09-26-10, 06:41 AM
I'm really thinking about pulling the carpet and pressure washing it - it came out so clean in the e30... gonna see how hard it'll be in the day

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval027.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval028.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval029.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval031.jpg

The car has heated door locks. When it is below 38*F you can hold the handle up for 30 seconds and there is a microswitch that goes to a coil around the lock - it'll heat any ice in/around the lock.... pretty neat. The black square is the microswitch and the coil is around the lock. The lock is broken and the key I have only fits the ignition and drivers door, somebody may have swapped keys on this car before.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval032.jpg

Then I wasnted to finally get the passenger door open. After more fussing, I knew it was not a door latch jamb and something was mechanically stuck, so I kept taking stuff apart.

Turns out one of the screws that holds the latch catch to the car backed out, well they all did and they are all countersunk screws. The large one got wedged under the door itself, which was physically binding the door from opening. I tried all sorts of things but finally had to resort to the sawzall to cut the bolts from the inside. The latch on the door works fine and even the catch plate survived... I just need to get the hardware to put the palte back on the car now.

This is how the catch was stuck on the door... that big bolt was longer and holding onto the body of the car.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval033.jpg

head from the smaller screw sawzalled off

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval034.jpg

mmmmmm power tools

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval035.jpg

and a trusty pry bar

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval036.jpg

can kinda see the metal on the door peeled back where the screw was jamed and door trying to be forced open

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval038.jpg

the head of the screw was wedged in there and the bolt was long enough to still engage in the car.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval040.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval041.jpg

what it should look like

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval042.jpg

the area

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval043.jpg

I left my mark. There is a backing plate that the 3 screws screw into. I didn't know what exactly was jambed so I tried prying things first.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/removal/interiorremoval044.jpg

hueterm
09-26-10, 12:02 PM
If you've done all this, you need to take the carpet out and wash it. You'll kick yourself later if you don't....

Night Wolf
09-26-10, 12:59 PM
I am really considering it... it is raining on and off today and supposed to be for a few days. I need to do it when it'll be sunny for a few days straight, as it takes that long to dry outside. Now that we are out of the Summer (but temps are still in the mid-upper 90s) it dosen't rain nearly everyday.

I haven't even put much thought into the carpet yet.... if it is like the e30 with sort of a padded rudderish backing... then by now it is falling apart and is a major pain to handle, I was so willing to do it in the e30 because... well, with two bigger doors and no roof it was easy to handle.

I did think about maybe cutting it in half right down the cnter - most all of it would be covered by the consol except for the small part on the back seat floor. I gotta check it out more. After seeing how nasty this carpet it (so much worse in the day) and already seeing how well the e30 carpet cleaned up (not nearly the condition of this), it is almost a given.

orconn
09-26-10, 01:15 PM
Those leather seats look like a complete "Leatherique" in cluding redye would do wonders for them .... even if you do put lambskins on the front seats you want to hav the leather underneath softened up and clean. I have seen worse condition seats come back from the "unacceptable" with "leatherique."

gdwriter
09-26-10, 03:43 PM
Perhaps you misunderstood what I wrote, as I did not say, nor imply that Cadillacs can not reach high miles.No, I didn't misunderstand you, and I know you did not imply Cadillacs cannot reach high miles. We all know they can.

But because of their high depreciation and a skew toward older, affluent original owners, most of whom make sure their cars are properly serviced, it is easy to find a low-mileage cream puff for a song, as I did with my Seville.

And while there are plenty of posers who buy them for the roundel, a lot of BMW owners are enthusiasts like you who respect the machinery and make sure it's cared for, even if they drive their cars hard (the way they were meant to be). So in both cases, miles mean little if the car is sound to begin with and is properly maintained.

I know Mercedes-Benz has lost its reputation for building tanks that last forever over the past decade, but I don't know about BMW. However, when your cars were built, they certainly were, and that 5-Series proves it yet again. Which explains why even in the used car market, at this age they can still command a premium. But it appears to be worth it.

Despite our differences, I'm glad you got your passion for cars back and are putting it to such good use. I've loved cars for as long as I can remember; I wouldn't recognize myself if I didn't.

Night Wolf
09-26-10, 05:23 PM
It has been raining on and off, so I would go out and work on the car durring the dry times.

There is a local (super cheap) u-pull-it yard. Pretty much the same vehicles have been there for the last 3 years. Most are all stripped. There are a few e30s.... and I never took notice, but (4) e28s. They are all 528e's as well. 3 are missing the drivetrain the one that isn't is missing the head and has no hood - pistons look rusted to the cylinders - shame because it is a Super eta with the speical pistons that are wanted. One had an interior fire, another is Bronzitbeige Metallic just like my car - and the darn thing is still shiney. Every body panel is there and in overall good condition - except the hood. Most all the cars have windows/doors opened but one 528e did not... and in it the interior is rather preserved for a junkyard car with 200k on the (maybe broken?) odometer. Not only is that, but it is the same color/style as my interior. The dash is even in "ok" shape too, it has cracks but not all over, I thought about swapping it but it would be pretty much nill as both have around the same amount of cracks, just in different places.

But, the car has the same tan leather comfort seats with arm rests as my car... and the seats are not torn up. The drivers seat bolster is ripped from getting in/out, but thats it, even the arm rests are in good shape. Sitting in the seat made it obvious that some part of the frame is broke or something as it was moving in ways it should be... still though they will be great as parts and I could most likely remove the leather covering from them and put them on mine. The backseat bottom is missing but the backrest portion is there and in great shape.

Also, of all things, that car has the ignition key on a cable around the steering column.... and the key works the ignition. The glove box was removed, but in the car so I tried the key in the glove box lock and it works too... gotta be all original which means it'll work on the doors and trunk too.... I just found a complete set of ignition/locks w/ matching key.

There is also a beat up e36 318i..... with the steering rack I'll need for the e30. I am going to go back later this week with my trailer and raid the place of BMW parts.

Today was a basic day there though - got a new overhead check panel as none of the LED's in mine were working. One of the headlights was missing the hold spring for adjustment, so I got a new one of those, and I also got the 3 countersunk screws needed to put the door striker thingy back on the car. The passenger door now opens and closes great... I was glad to get that fixed... a rather basic thing, but a jambed door was annoying.

With the new check panel the O2 sensor light is on - someone removed the bulb from the one that was in the car. To order a BMW sensor is around $85.... or I can get a Mustang O2 sensor, cut the wires and splice it into the harness from the old sensor for about $25. Also the coolant LED is on, which means low coolant, but the radiator was replaced at some point as it is not a BMW radiator in my car and it is also for an automatic (has two spots for cooler lines), and if it is like the e30 with a coolant level sensor in the radiator - there is none. I'm pretty sure on the e28 it is in the expansion tank though, so I'll see whats going on with that.

Night Wolf
09-26-10, 05:38 PM
No, I didn't misunderstand you, and I know you did not imply Cadillacs cannot reach high miles. We all know they can.

But because of their high depreciation and a skew toward older, affluent original owners, most of whom make sure their cars are properly serviced, it is easy to find a low-mileage cream puff for a song, as I did with my Seville.

And while there are plenty of posers who buy them for the roundel, a lot of BMW owners are enthusiasts like you who respect the machinery and make sure it's cared for, even if they drive their cars hard (the way they were meant to be). So in both cases, miles mean little if the car is sound to begin with and is properly maintained.

I know Mercedes-Benz has lost its reputation for building tanks that last forever over the past decade, but I don't know about BMW. However, when your cars were built, they certainly were, and that 5-Series proves it yet again. Which explains why even in the used car market, at this age they can still command a premium. But it appears to be worth it.

Despite our differences, I'm glad you got your passion for cars back and are putting it to such good use. I've loved cars for as long as I can remember; I wouldn't recognize myself if I didn't.

I still would like to have a '95 Eldorado ETC, and while nice ones are getting harder to find, I'm sure that even in several years from now if I was in the market and I looked long enough, I would find some old person owned gem for a fair price. You sure get a lot of car for the money with 90s Cadillacs.

As for the people that buy BMW's as a status symbol... that was one of the reasons why I used to avoid BMW, was hesitant to get one and finally much prefer the older ones as they lost all the yuppieness and now have a gearhead following.

From what I have read, heard and experienced, just like MB, modern BMW has really lost what it had in the 80s in terms of flat out durability and longjevity. A mid-late 90s+ BMW with 200k miles shows it with all sorts of problems. The engines and drivetrain is still solid, but the engines used to be ran by a rather simple system and now have dozens of sensors that if one fails, it may prevent the car from running. As Jesda mentioned with his e34, the whole cooling system bad brittle plastic parts, even the door locks had plastic parts. The e34 is still partly "old" BMW, but was the first major step transitioning from 80s to 90s and it shows.... they got worse after that.

Not to say new BMW's are bad - they are still excellent cars and a 1-series convertible is on my list of future cars I'd like, but just like MB, they lost the durability that they were known for. I suppose it would be a mix of further "refining" stuff and having it computer controlled... not just the engine, but the entire car. Both my e28 and e30 have a 3-position switch for the dome light - on/off/door... new BMW's require you to go to the dealer and have the car programmed using the dealers computer to allow the lights to be turned on or not when a door opens. Plus as a whole in the auto world, things are switching from metal to plastic, which after many years and heat cycles just can't hold up as well.

Not to mention the 80s BMW's are extremely DIY friendly. Plenty of room around the enigne to work in, the I6 and RWD layout allow for plenty of room on both sides of the engine. If someone knows the difference between a hammer and a screw driver - with just a basic $35 toolkit (which I use often for ease) an entire tuneup can be performed.


Those leather seats look like a complete "Leatherique" in cluding redye would do wonders for them .... even if you do put lambskins on the front seats you want to hav the leather underneath softened up and clean. I have seen worse condition seats come back from the "unacceptable" with "leatherique."

I've heard about that stuff and heard it is excellent. I'll probably get some and try it out - the back seat overall is good (except for 1 cigerette burn hole) but shows age, and if I get the two front seats from the junkyard, they are in need of refresh as well.

Night Wolf
09-26-10, 06:24 PM
My day outside was cut short due to rain - which is ok because I prepared by removing much of the interior and bringing it in the house last night.

I'm going to fist say... never fail to amaze me with the things they come up with. The drivers door handle broke - ok, not a big deal. Could go to a junkyard as the same interior door handles were used on every 80s BMW... or heck buy a brand new one online for $10, but no... lets glue the old one, then let it break again, fall in the door and....leave it - resorting to have to put the window down and open the door using the outside handle.

Noelle willingly gave up her drivers door handle. It works out well though, as the handle casing has a crack and if pulled too hard (beyond opening the door) it flexes. Never really bothered me enough to buy a new one, but it was on the list - though it still worked perfectly fine.. so that handle went on the e28 and I'll buy a new $10 handle which will go on the e30, win-win.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup001.jpg

Then these came off

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup002.jpg

To expose this. Ok, you hit a deer with the car... or bought a car that the previous owner hit a deer (as said the case with this car) Instead of just wailing on things with a big hammer until "sorta ok enough" why not actually take some time and maybe try to fix it up better? it dosen't take any extra money.... just some care in what you do.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup003.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup004.jpg

But again, we have a winner. The headlight bracket was bent - new headlights were installed - even without the spring to hold it in place so itwas just flopping around...

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup006.jpg

amazing what literally 10 seconds of twisting will do. The area where it mounts to was pushed back a bit (just in front of radiator) and the headlights were not flush with the grille, I tried hammering what it mounts to out, but it was obvious it owuld be easier just to bend the mounting ears on the bracket back a bit more - worked great.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup007.jpg

Then I whipped out the professional bodywork tools

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup012.jpg

rubber mallet wasn't doing a thing... I had to get my trusty sledge

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup013.jpg

I wanted to make it look a bit better, bust most importantly actually be able to get the (3) grilles to align enough that it dosen't look like a half-hearted attempt at trying to fix something. I kept placing the grilles in, closing the hood etc... Once I was happy with everything I put a wire wheel on my corded drill and hit all the rust spots from missing paint

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup015.jpg

then did a world class job of masking off.... I had a feeling all the packing material from the parts I ordered would come in handy for something.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup016.jpg

and whipped out the Krylon semi-flat black rust tough paint. At first I was going to actually order a can on Bronzitbeige paint online... then I asked myself "does it really matter at this point?" So I went to Advance to see what they had in Duplicolor for other makes that sorta matched... and I had a hard time spending $7 for a small can of spray paint that really won't make much of a difference. So I decided to use what I already had, without spending more money. Actually I think the black looks much better anyway and also helps hide the various damage.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup018.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup020.jpg

Then I brought the grilles inside to clean them. It appears as if the drivers side is original and the center and passenger side replaced, someone painted the passenger side grille before and it was all flaking by now.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup023.jpg

hard to see, but even the plastic chrome which was sorta yellowish cleaned up really nice with some diluted Awesome and a magic eraser

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup026.jpg

I then painted the grilles flat black using Duplicolor vinyl and fabric paint (same paint I used to paint the e30 carpets, though different color) as that was the best thing I had on hand for plastic use. I'm happy with how they came out, a smooth and flat black. No pictures of the grilles in the hi-tek paint lab though.

So then I installed the unbent headlight bracket... that is the little spring that was missing, which I got from the junkyard.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup028.jpg

Night Wolf
09-26-10, 07:01 PM
The striker and backing plate were still ok, so I put the new hardware in played with opening and closing the door a few times and got it lined up nice. Also hit back the metal on the door that was peeled up from the screw that backed out.

The door latch is old school - you can move it with your hand to the half latched and full latched position, then release it with the handle. Normally there is a heavyish spring that holds tension down on the latch (to the open position) but the spring is broke on this door. It dosen't interfere at all with the operation as the door still opens, closes and latches fine. Only thing is if someone actually bumped the latch to the closed position when the door was open (would have to actually be trying though) the door wouldn't close. Becuase it works so well as-is, I'm not going to bother removing and digging through that latch to replace the spring.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup030.jpg

The back right door was slightly sticking out when cosed, so I adjusted that striker to bring it in a bit... I had to play with it as there was a fine line between easy to close but sticking out too much and harder to close but lining up. It is lined up pretty well, but requires a little more force to fully close then the other doors. I'm not that worried about it as I don't usually cart around other people.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup031.jpg

In the trunk, along with the driverside lower dash panel was this cover. Pretty easy to figure out where it goes, cleans up the engine bay nicely. I'm glad I went with the semi-flat black as it blends well with the plastic cover.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup029.jpg

and the painted grilles installed. It isn't perfect, it would be very hard to get it so and I don't even want it perfect... but atleast it has a certain flow now and dosen't just look silly. To properly fix this the whole radiator support-forward would need to be cut out and a new one welded in. It didn't damage the frame of the car and is just cosmetic, but this is about as good as it'll get. All 4 e28s at the junkyard have undamage radiator/grille support sections - go figure. Who knows, maybe some day I'll teach myself welding - it's one of the automotive things I haven't really messed with yet (but want to learn)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup032.jpg

I used zip ties as they were already on hand, allowed some fine adjustment and fit the job well enough, I don't even think I would be able to use the original clips if I had them. Still though when all in order and the tails cut off, they look ok. In all honest - this car was neglected, older than I and probably has around a quarter million miles on it - perfection is not the key, but the important thing is that I am happy with the results, atleast now I can walk up to the car when parked somewhere without disgust (not from the damage - from the poor attempt at trying to fix it)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup033.jpg

Fog lights will get addressed as well, but for now they are not important

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup034.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup035.jpg

About a year ago I ordered parts for the e30, of those parts were a new distrubutor cap and rotor that was only put on when the car was on jackstands. It wasn't doing any good off the engine though, so I put them on the 528e. I bought new spark plug wires for the e30, but it runs Motronic 1.3 which uses an impulse sensor on the #6 spark plug wire to tell the computer which of the two banks of injectors to fire. A set of wires with the impulse sensor is around $50 more then non impulse (for eta engines), so the wires will stay as-is for now, but will be replaced in the future.

When I removed the cap and rotor on the e30, they were beyond worn out. 20 years and 140k on the original cap and rotor left nothing, amazing that it still ran (and so well). The cap and rotor on the e28 had a 1998 date code so they were replaced, and according to the autocheck that would have been around 140k miles.... so it would probably be safe to say these have around 100k on them.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup039.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup040.jpg

diving boards make great beverage holders! Upoon further research, unlike the e30, euro bumpers will not easily swap over with just a bumper mount change (plus latter e30s have nice plastic bumpers that are a direct swap to the convertible chassis) but on the e28 it requires cutting and modification of the frame rails... then you need to source the bumpers and I'm reading it is a $700-$800 task to swap to euros.... so... the diving boards will stay. I could "tuck" them, but we'll see. Atleast they are much more durable then the euro bumpers and will take quite a beating. The e30's bumpers are mounted using 2 shocks, the e28 has 3 per bumper. The still look bad, but they are growing on me, and with this cars goal as a presentable and reliable driver - I'm not even that worried about it.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup045.jpg

I put the e30 engine on a stand from the hoist and started to take it apart... I got the valve cover off and the gasket I used last time I adjusted the valves was a reuseable one... since I don't need it right now and will be getting all new seals for that engine... it is going on the e28. I removed the spark plugs from the e30 engine as they aren't that old, but the ones in the e28 look good too, I am going to check if they are the proper plug for the engine, then I'll clean them, check the gap and put them back in. I was getting ready to adjust the valves, then it started raining.... and light rain means I have minutes until a downpour, so I put everything up for the day and left here.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup050.jpg

Southern cars are so great.... all the brake and fuel lines are in very good condition. This is why I am willing to fix up this car... underneath the filth and mess, it really is a solid car that just needed some TLC.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup051.jpg

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-26-10, 07:10 PM
Looks a lot better Rick!

Just an FYI, I looked up the MSRP for the '88 528e and at $31,500, it was more expensive than every American car except the Allante, Fleetwood Sixty Special and the Corvette convertible!

Night Wolf
09-26-10, 07:19 PM
Looks a lot better Rick!

Just an FYI, I looked up the MSRP for the '88 528e and at $31,500, it was more expensive than every American car except the Allante, Fleetwood Sixty Special and the Corvette convertible!

lol, and it was the base model 5-series sold in the US. US also got M30-powered 535i/is. Even in 528e form, they were still loaded. Overseas they could have been bought just as basic as a base 3-series.

I'm sure when they were new, because the the higher price and newness of BMW compared to the established American brands.... most original owners probably sought out the specific car or atleast wanted a BMW and didn't just happen to stop by the dealer, I could be mistaken though.

drewsdeville
09-26-10, 08:48 PM
Southern cars are so great.... all the brake and fuel lines are in very good condition. This is why I am willing to fix up this car... underneath the filth and mess, it really is a solid car that just needed some TLC.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/fixup051.jpg


Well, the ARE epoxy coated, so they'd most likely stay in great condition even in the rust belt.

But overall, I definitely agree. You learn to weld and use the fire wrench real well if you tinker up north here. Both are essential.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-26-10, 08:49 PM
Rick, you should write for Chiltons/Haynes. You'd do good with them.

Night Wolf
09-26-10, 10:22 PM
Well, the ARE epoxy coated, so they'd most likely stay in great condition even in the rust belt.

But overall, I definitely agree. You learn to weld and use the fire wrench real well if you tinker up north here. Both are essential.

On the e30 sites, cars in the rust belt really show it... some folks needing to replace brake lines, subframe bushings even more frozen to the chassis etc... Even when well protected, the newest US e30 is now approaching 20 years old... it takes its toll.


Rick, you should write for Chiltons/Haynes. You'd do good with them.

lol, never though of that. In the BMW world those manuals are absolute garbage - can't beat the Bently manual.

I do enjoy making the writeups, maybe not so much here, but on the dedicated sites of these cars for others to follow and learn how to work on their car. I remember when I started working on cars... even something as simple as a disc brake overhaul I felt so much better if I saw a write up with pictures. It is my way of giving back to the communities in which I learn from. My post count here is quite high from the lounge, but the various BMW sites and Jeep sites I tend to stay more with the tech side.... spending hours just searching and reading up on things. If someone else can learn to fix their car from something I typed up and supplied pictures of then I would be glad.

Playdrv4me
09-26-10, 11:27 PM
Looks fantastic Rick. Thank you for fixing up that headlight header panel!

As for the fog-lights, I'd just as soon rip them completely off. I hate those 80s style aftermarket looking (even when stock) fog lights, probably more-so than the diving boards actually.

Night Wolf
09-27-10, 12:24 AM
Do the headlights/grilles pass the Ian test? ;)

They do pretty much stand out quite a bit. The style of them has grown on me, plus on the e30 they did help with light at night. I am really happy with how the tinted lenses on the e30 fog lights turned out that I'll probably do the same to the e28, it really helps in not drawing attention to them.

I cleaned all the interior parts I brought in - all 4 door panels and pull handles, the 3 sections of center consol, glove box and under steering wheel panel, what a difference, but I didn't take any pictures... I may just wait until it is all put together in the car. The water/Awesome mix was starting to remove the dye when I sprayed and wiped the bottom of the rear seat, not sure what to do with it yet, I may clean it like that if I end up treating everything with that leather product that fills the cracks and redyes everything.

I learned some new thigns about the climate control system - it is a lot different then the e30, which is full manual. The 528e has a manual-auto hybrid system that while a bit more complicated then the e30, is nothing compared tot he monstor of a climate control system the e23 7-series uses.

There is no recirc button, but the dash vent slider is servo controlled - not cable. When open, it also tells the fresh door motor to open, when closed, it closes. Heat will not come out of the dash vents, only floor and windsheild.

On the under steering wheel panel (that was in the trunk) is a cabin air temp sensor and a vacuum line that runs tot he intake manifold. The car is made with this small vacuum "leak" as that pulls fresh air past the temp sensor continously. Since this panel was not in, that was another reason the climate control is not acting properly, and also where the sensor is acts as a restrictor for the vacuum line, so the car had a bigger then it should vaccume leak.

The car has a heater control valve, which is either on or off. When the temp dial is on full cold it prvents coolant flow, when full hot it allows full coolant flow. Any setting in between the valve cycles on and off to maintain the selected temp (numbers on the dial). That valve is a common fail point at this age, and I think mine is bad as I am not getting heat, or any coolant flow to the heater core but the air becomes ambient temp when turned hot. I really haven't looked into it much, so I don't know if something is missing or bypassed. Once I replace all the coolant hoses I'll get it working properly.

So far it is moving along nicely, I'm excited to start driving the car, probably a few weeks away now.

gdwriter
09-27-10, 01:08 AM
Both my e28 and e30 have a 3-position switch for the dome light - on/off/door... new BMW's require you to go to the dealer and have the car programmed using the dealers computer to allow the lights to be turned on or not when a door opens.:histeric: :histeric: :histeric:

For the record, my Seville still has the nice, simple 3-position switch for the interior lights.

BMW and especially Mercedes-Benz seem to have gone off the deep end with over complicating their recent offerings. I still remember laughing at a M-B cupholder that used a pneumatic lift and swung out with the arms. It seemed to be a typical instance of over-engineering something that should be really simple.

drewsdeville
09-27-10, 01:15 AM
Well, that's what you get when shopping in that territory...that's the point of it all. Remember Cadillacs auto trunk pull down? Closing the trunk should be really simple, right? Not when you own a Cadillac. And when they break, your trunk doesn't close all the way, leaks water and looks like crap.

If they weren't over-engineered, there'd be no point. The pneumatic cup holder may have been overkill, but it's still something the competition didn't have. Exclusiveness sells.

Your Seville really makes a lot of simple things seem over-engineered in comparison to a Toyota Corolla.

Night Wolf
09-27-10, 02:10 AM
That is one of the gems about these 80s BMW.... for the most part the cars are simple and things haven't been complicated at that point, yet the cars are loaded with goodies and have a chassis/suspension that still holds its own 20-25+ years later, so it dosen't feel like an "old" car.

As for auto trunk pull down, my '93 CDV, '89 FWB and '96 Town Car had them, I thought it was rather pointless as it dosen't take much more force to close the trunk on my non auto pull down cars.

Atleast to me, 80s BMW had neat features that were actually useful. They don't have power locks, they have central locks - activated by either front door lock knob or the key in the front doors, or trunk. If your car is locked in a parking lot you can walk to the trunk and unlock the entire car while you load your stuff up. The fuel filler door also locks/unlocks with central locking. Though now with keyless entry it is sort of a moot point - but because of the system you can get the cheap $30 keyless entry kit on ebay and splice right into central locking - pretty cool.

There are others, but I really think that is one of the main reasons I like these cars so much, besides how well they are built. Everything in them has a purpose and a job - it's not full of gimicky stuff. Beyond that, the whole car is made for the driver, ergonomics are top notch, the turn signals, wipers and cruise control are all positioned around the steering wheel in that you can operate thenm via fingertip while hands are still on the wheel. The HVAC and radio are in a natural arc from the shifter and everything is positioned towards the driver.

Night Wolf
09-27-10, 02:18 AM
The e28 diving boards are really like park benches - sticking out way more then my e30's DBs (which I really don't mind on that car) though early e30s had the huge DBs as well.

One thing that can be done is tuck them... I decided not to on the e30, but the e28's are just huge. Only thing I don't like is that because the bumper tapers, when tucked the plastic surround has a gap between the bumper... what is everyones opinion?

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/jw325ic/535i/100_0921.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/jw325ic/535i/100_0922.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/jw325ic/535i/100_0923.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/jw325ic/535i/100_0924.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/jw325ic/535i/100_0925.jpg

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v190/jw325ic/535i/100_0927.jpg

Obviously the shock action on the bumper is lost. The vibe on the e30 sites is that it dosen't make a difference... small bumps won't damage the car and in a large wreck the shocks won't save the car, e28 can be considered a beefed up e30 in that regard, so I imagine the same thing. Plenty of vehicles do not have shock mounted bumpers.

Basically a hole is drilled in the shock and you drive the car against a wall of somesort to compress the bumper which pushes the oil out - tucked bumpers.

On a side note - from further reading, people are reporting that a properly tuned 5spd 528e will return mid-30's highway fuel mileage..... possibly approaching 40mpg, on regular gas.

A daily driver and highway cruiser for when I do not want a convertible for sure, which is why 528e flavor (vs 535i) fits for this car so well, it moves well enough for what it is but I have the e30 for speed and it dosen't take mega power to maintain 70-90mph. I had the car up to 60 and tried cruise (trashed draglink and bald tires make me not want to go faster) and even with the engine under 2000rpm in overdrive 5th - there was plenty of torque to be had for hills with no need for downshifting. 70-75mph will keep the engine a bit more in the powerband in 5th so it should be better.

Stingroo
09-27-10, 02:48 AM
No, looks terrible with the bumpers tucked. Makes me think of a cheap beater car.

gdwriter
09-27-10, 03:11 AM
Well, that's what you get when shopping in that territory...that's the point of it all. Remember Cadillacs auto trunk pull down? Closing the trunk should be really simple, right? Not when you own a Cadillac. And when they break, your trunk doesn't close all the way, leaks water and looks like crap.

If they weren't over-engineered, there'd be no point. The pneumatic cup holder may have been overkill, but it's still something the competition didn't have. Exclusiveness sells.

Your Seville really makes a lot of simple things seem over-engineered in comparison to a Toyota Corolla.Sheesh, are you just trying to be a dick? Because you're succeeding.

For the record, my Seville does not have the trunk pull-down. My '91 DeVille had it, and 20 years later, it works flawlessly. Necessary? Not at all. But I kind of miss it. I still have the automatic parking brake release, and I still like it. Have the memory seat and tilt wheel, too. Necessary? No, but I like them. One of the many reasons why I don't drive a Toyota Corolla.

I have a healthy respect for cars like Rick's 5-Series that have survived despite neglect, and I have expressed my admiration for Rick's talent at fixing up this diamond in the (very) rough. We have buried the hatchet. So why are you so eager to pull it out again?

Aron9000
09-27-10, 03:57 AM
Rick, I think I read back somewhere on page 5 or 6, section C, paragraph 5, sub paragraph 2 that this car has heated door locks. Maybe I was haulcenating, but that is one really cool feature. Not neccisary now with keyless entry, but I've fought the frozen door locks thing a couple of times in my old Buick, not fun.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-27-10, 08:52 AM
Looking at the pictures of that 535i, it's really reminding me of my high school friend's '85 Audi 4000 Quattro. Not that they look a lot alike or anything, but it seems like all German cars of the '80s, especially VW/BMW/Audi, share a few styling traits.

I haven't seen it since our auto shop class in 2004, but I remember it looking like this:
http://www.audiworld.com/model/4000/pix/86-4k.jpg

I suppose it used a lot of the same electronic parts (Bosch) as your 525e and 325i. I do remember it having a small inline five, and a five speed manual. I never rode in it, so I can't comment on that, but I do remember it not being as nice looking as an '80s BMW or Mercedes.

hueterm
09-27-10, 09:07 AM
Rick, I think I read back somewhere on page 5 or 6, section C, paragraph 5, sub paragraph 2 that this car has heated door locks. Maybe I was haulcenating, but that is one really cool feature. Not neccisary now with keyless entry, but I've fought the frozen door locks thing a couple of times in my old Buick, not fun.


That is cool -- can you tell if they're working since it's not cold out....?

drewsdeville
09-27-10, 10:00 AM
Sheesh, are you just trying to be a dick? Because you're succeeding.



No.

My apologies, I didn't realize you were so sensitive. Your Seville has nothing to do with it. I was merely stating that I disagree. Can you go overboard overcomplicating in this genre of machine? You get what you pay for, and most who pay for a BMW or M-B pay for exclusiveness (at least, in America). Sure the pneumatic cup holder, memory seats and trunk pull-down are unnecessary or maybe even over the top/laughable to some, but that's what makes them what they are. It's something that others don't have.

I'm not looking for the hatchet, don't be so willing to dig it up yourself and plant it on me.

ted tcb
09-27-10, 11:25 AM
Rick, I would vote "No" on the bumper tuck in.

Your car accurately reflects 1980's styling cues, whether they be good or bad.
I don't mind custom improvements, but the tuck in bumpers just look weird.
Looks like you've been in a front or rear end collision, and the bumper has collapsed into itself.

I actually find the diving boards unique, kind of imposing in a "safety overboard" statement.

Either way, enjoying these epic posts!

mhamilton
09-27-10, 11:39 AM
For the record, my Seville does not have the trunk pull-down. My '91 DeVille had it, and 20 years later, it works flawlessly.

What? Your Seville doesn't have the power trunk pulldown? I thought all Cadillacs still had that :confused:


Night Wolf, just went back and read your convertible resto thread... fantastic! :) You've inspired me to get off my ass and fix my '96 Impala (240k miles of family hauling has taken its toll). First thing on order is a new drag link for the horribly worn steering!

hueterm
09-27-10, 12:16 PM
Definitely no on the bumper tuck -- it makes it look like it's been in a wreck. Just keep it stock.

Stingroo
09-27-10, 12:34 PM
What? Your Seville doesn't have the power trunk pulldown? I thought all Cadillacs still had that :confused:


Night Wolf, just went back and read your convertible resto thread... fantastic! :) You've inspired me to get off my ass and fix my '96 Impala (240k miles of family hauling has taken its toll). First thing on order is a new drag link for the horribly worn steering!

Yay another B-body fan! I like you already. :thumbsup:

And agreed 100% with Ted. The bumper tuck looks like you fail miserably at parking, and constantly run into shit. :lol: I'd pass.

Night Wolf
09-27-10, 12:51 PM
Rick, I think I read back somewhere on page 5 or 6, section C, paragraph 5, sub paragraph 2 that this car has heated door locks. Maybe I was haulcenating, but that is one really cool feature. Not neccisary now with keyless entry, but I've fought the frozen door locks thing a couple of times in my old Buick, not fun.

Yup, I dunno if it still works as I haven't messed with it, and there is no need for it. But when it is under 38*F (not sure if it'll work above that temp... possibly? the car does have outside air temp sensor) you hold the drivers door handle up for 30 seconds, inside the door there is a lever on the handle that makes contact with a switch which heats the key lock hole from the inside out to melt the ice.

I can try holding the door handle up and see if the lock gets warm, if not I'll have to read up on how it fully works to see if it'll work in warm tempratures or not.

My car may also have heated washer fluid nozzles. It was an optional feature, and when the hood was swapped, everything was just cut/not hooked up - bonding wire, washer fluid line (though I can hear the pump run when I pull the washer stalk) but i also see some wires cut that looks like they go towards the nozzles. I'll have to see if the car had that feature and wire it in, or just wire it up anyway... though it really isn't a thing that is needed in this climate.

I agree, with keyless entry it isn't all that needed... but yes, I have fought with frozen door locks on my '89 Oldsmobile in NY a few times.


Looking at the pictures of that 535i, it's really reminding me of my high school friend's '85 Audi 4000 Quattro. Not that they look a lot alike or anything, but it seems like all German cars of the '80s, especially VW/BMW/Audi, share a few styling traits.

Yeah it defintily has the 80s German style going on - which I like a lot. Though the same can be said for Japaneese cars of the 80s... all the compacts have the same general shape and look similar, same with American cars, to a non-car person I'm sure they could mistake an 80s Caprice for a Grand Marquis etc...


Night Wolf, just went back and read your convertible resto thread... fantastic! You've inspired me to get off my ass and fix my '96 Impala (240k miles of family hauling has taken its toll). First thing on order is a new drag link for the horribly worn steering!

I'm glad I can help you get motivated! :) I know seeing other people dig this deep into their cars before I started mine sure helped me. A quarter of a million miles on any car is an accomplisment and if the chassis is solid/accident free, and you like it car - it derserves a 2nd life. Heh, funny you mention the drag link - of the few hard parts broken on the 528e, that is one of them. It has two ball joints (1 for pitman arm, 1 for idler arm) and connects to the two tie rod ends. Everything else int he front end is tight but the ball joint for the idler arm is trashed... just clunks around causing vibration, shakes, unever tire wear etc...

I think I'll leave the bumpers as-is then. I was on the fence about it and I have warmed up to diving boards overall since the e30, just figured I would see what the non-BMW crowd thought.

gdwriter
09-27-10, 12:57 PM
No.

My apologies, I didn't realize you were so sensitive. Your Seville has nothing to do with it. I was merely stating that I disagree. Can you go overboard overcomplicating in this genre of machine? You get what you pay for, and most who pay for a BMW or M-B pay for exclusiveness (at least, in America). Sure the pneumatic cup holder, memory seats and trunk pull-down are unnecessary or maybe even over the top/laughable to some, but that's what makes them what they are. It's something that others don't have.Fine. Apology accepted. We'll keep the hatchet buried where it is. :rofl:

It's not so much being sensitive; I just don't get why you seem to take every opportunity to slam Cadillacs on a forum for owners and enthusiasts.

The cupholder example was just something that amused me. Back when they first became common, I liked to check out how different manufacturers designed them at the new car show. The one in that Mercedes was beautifully engineered; it just cracked me up that some engineer spent so much effort on something so basic.

Sure, you want extra features when you're paying a premium for a car, but they shouldn't be that complicated to use, like going through a couple of menus just to change the temperature or the radio station. BMW's iDrive system was widely panned when it came out, although I understand it's better now. I still wouldn't want it.

What Rick and I were amused by was how needlessly complicated the cars have become. Those heated locks on his 5-Series are a really cool and useful feature that are pretty straightforward.

drewsdeville
09-27-10, 01:45 PM
It's not so much being sensitive; I just don't get why you seem to take every opportunity to slam Cadillacs on a forum for owners and enthusiasts.



It wasn't meant to be a slam, it was a convenient example that can easily be related to as we are on a Cadillac forum. Hell, there's even a brand new thread started today about a trunk pulldown problem in the Deville forum. I tend to try to use Cadillac examples whenever I can because of this.

Making an example, for better or for worse, isn't always a slam. Again, I didn't realize you were so sensitive, and I'm sorry.

orconn
09-27-10, 01:57 PM
What? Your Seville doesn't have the power trunk pulldown? I thought all Cadillacs still had that :confused:


Night Wolf, just went back and read your convertible resto thread... fantastic! :) You've inspired me to get off my ass and fix my '96 Impala (240k miles of family hauling has taken its toll). First thing on order is a new drag link for the horribly worn steering!

The 5th series Seville was "decontented" in many ways (from the 4th series), at least with the SLS the trunk pull down was one of them!

orconn
09-27-10, 02:16 PM
While I agree that cars in general, and luxury cars in particular, have become needlessly, some would say frivolously, complicated ....... but if my 30 year old son is any indication, these frivolously complicated gadgets are what he finds most interesting about the cars he is interested in buying! One would think that high levels of quality in assembly, materials and performance would be enough to sell a "luxury" car, but in an interview with a senior executive with Mercedes-Benz he said without the addition of all the gadgets and other unnecessary electronic frills that Mercedes would have a hard time justifying the extraordinarily high price charged for their cars in the U.S. market. And if many of the younger set that I have discussed this with are any example, he is right!

I read the comments of many on this forum and am amazed that they place such a high value on many accessories that come with their Cadillacs. Ofcourse, Cadillacs are not known for the high quality of assembly, superior materials, or (with certain exceptions) excellent handling! GM has over the past five decades felt that it was the icing that sold their cars, not the cake. So we have had, in many cases, poor build quality, lesser quality to cheap materials and substandard driving dynamics frosted over with "cutesy" gadgets as a relatively cheap way to attract buyers. Unfortunately for Cadillac many among their potential market chose to look elsewhere for their luxury cars.

gdwriter
09-27-10, 05:00 PM
It wasn't meant to be a slam, it was a convenient example that can easily be related to as we are on a Cadillac forum. Hell, there's even a brand new thread started today about a trunk pulldown problem in the Deville forum. I tend to try to use Cadillac examples whenever I can because of this.OK, well that makes sense.

I know some Lincolns have a feature that powers the trunk down from being completely open; that would be a convenient feature when your hands are full.

gdwriter
09-27-10, 05:17 PM
While I agree that cars in general, and luxury cars in particular, have become needlessly, some would say frivolously, complicated ....... but if my 30 year old son is any indication, these frivolously complicated gadgets are what he finds most interesting about the cars he is interested in buying! One would think that high levels of quality in assembly, materials and performance would be enough to sell a "luxury" car, but in an interview with a senior executive with Mercedes-Benz he said without the addition of all the gadgets and other unnecessary electronic frills that Mercedes would have a hard time justifying the extraordinarily high price charged for their cars in the U.S. market. And if many of the younger set that I have discussed this with are any example, he is right!

I read the comments of many on this forum and am amazed that they place such a high value on many accessories that come with their Cadillacs. Ofcourse, Cadillacs are not known for the high quality of assembly, superior materials, or (with certain exceptions) excellent handling! GM has over the past five decades felt that it was the icing that sold their cars, not the cake. So we have had, in many cases, poor build quality, lesser quality to cheap materials and substandard driving dynamics frosted over with "cutesy" gadgets as a relatively cheap way to attract buyers. Unfortunately for Cadillac many among their potential market chose to look elsewhere for their luxury cars.That's a good point. I keep seeing Web ads for some kind of lane alert or other such thing on the newest Mercedes and think, "What ever happened to knowing how to freakin' drive?"

I fully enjoy the bells and whistles on my Cadillac, from the automatic parking brake release to the tilt wheel that automatically moves up when I get out and moves back in place when I start the car to the automatic climate control (I've gotten quite spoiled by that and only occasionally change the temperature setting; I wouldn't want a car without it now). But all of these things are easy to use, and configuring my preferences took all of a couple of minutes the night I bought my car without once consulting the owner's manual.

Cadillac has also been making significant strides in quality of materials and assembly and performance. I know build quality on 5th-generation Sevilles is hit and miss; Ryannel's 2000 STS has squeaks, rattles and less-than-stellar fit-and finish, while mine is tight as a drum 10 years and 100,000 miles later. The last of the Sevilles also had pretty nice materials inside (noted by an Automobile magazine review in August, 2001), particularly the wood, and the leather is much softer and luxurious feeling than the 3- and 5-Series BMWs I saw at the Chicago Auto Show this year.

While pricey, I think BMW can mostly justify their high prices, although popular option packages are awfully spendy (Cadillac is guilty of this, too). I've long thought, however that Mercedes have been overpriced and overrated for years. The interior on the C-Class I saw at the Chicago Auto Show was unbelievably cheap-looking inside. A Volkswagen Jetta had a more luxurious interior. But M-B has managed to coast on its reputation for years, and there are plenty of status seekers who want a three-pointed star regardless of the actual quality of the car.

mhamilton
09-27-10, 05:35 PM
Yay another B-body fan! I like you already.

:) They were the best Chevies to roll off the line! Still on the original Opti, too (knock on wood... and I'm sure that rotor needs to be changed by now!)


The 5th series Seville was "decontented" in many ways (from the 4th series), at least with the SLS the trunk pull down was one of them!

Hmmm... that's disappointing. So they got HID lights and parking assist, but lost the trunk close? I was looking at the new STS because they had a lot of the features I like, but will have to check on that. I know I already dislike the cheap finish of the trunk (struts to open, very small opening, and poorly contained wiring to the decklid).


I'm glad I can help you get motivated! I know seeing other people dig this deep into their cars before I started mine sure helped me. A quarter of a million miles on any car is an accomplisment and if the chassis is solid/accident free, and you like it car - it derserves a 2nd life. Heh, funny you mention the drag link - of the few hard parts broken on the 528e, that is one of them. It has two ball joints (1 for pitman arm, 1 for idler arm) and connects to the two tie rod ends. Everything else int he front end is tight but the ball joint for the idler arm is trashed... just clunks around causing vibration, shakes, unever tire wear etc...

I know I'll be like you once I start, there will be hundreds of dollars of new parts as I find more things I have to fix! lol That's one reason I've neglected this car so long (aside from the necessities). It's been a NC car it's whole life, so no rust, and no major problems, just old age catching up. I've seen the same drag link wear on my other (old) GM cars as well... seems like a weak part for some reason. Really makes a big difference when it's tight.

Can't wait to see how your 2 project cars continue to improve :thumbsup:

Stingroo
09-27-10, 05:42 PM
You are one lucky man. You better start carrying a block of wood in your pocket. :lol:

Part of me wants an LT1 wagon, but eh, my L05 is plenty of power... for now :D

drewsdeville
09-27-10, 06:07 PM
Since some agree on the point that extravagance sells when it comes to this genre of cars, I think it's important to note the increased quality of "average" sedans. For example, my buddy just bought a 2007 Hyundai Azera with every feature that Gary loves about his Seville...yes, a lowly Hyundai. My girlfriends Malibu was available with many typical luxury appointments in LTZ trim and it drives better than most Cadillacs I've been in (though that is subjective).

The luxury brands are having a hard time retaining an audience and they are really struggling to out-do typical higher class models from average names like the examples of the Hyundai and Malibu. When you can get a Hyundai that's nice or nicer than a Cadillac or BMW for a fraction of the cost, Cadillac/BMW loses it's appeal to many, especially now that quality differences are minimal as mentioned.

Of course, this doesn't deter those that are in it for the image, which unfortunately happens. But it does eliminate a lot of potential business from typical buyers who are actually interested in what cars have to offer rather than using them as cock extensions.

That said, stuff like the pneumatic cup holder is definitely an attempt to counter this and they need stuff like that; something to separate the BMW or Cadillac name from the sea of higher class models from average names. Maybe the cupholder itself isn't the answer, but more creative, intriguing, and completely unnecessary gadgets could help gain the distinction needed to make them attractive.

drewsdeville
09-27-10, 06:28 PM
You are one lucky man. You better start carrying a block of wood in your pocket. :lol:

Part of me wants an LT1 wagon, but eh, my L05 is plenty of power... for now :D

Bah, what a load. There's NEVER enough power when you have the itch. :devil: Part of you? You know as well as I, deep inside you know that MOST of you wants that LT1.

So get your ass going, start a thread about performance mods, take lots of pictures and link us. :)

ryannel2003
09-27-10, 07:02 PM
That's a good point. I keep seeing Web ads for some kind of lane alert or other such thing on the newest Mercedes and think, "What ever happened to knowing how to freakin' drive?"

I fully enjoy the bells and whistles on my Cadillac, from the automatic parking brake release to the tilt wheel that automatically moves up when I get out and moves back in place when I start the car to the automatic climate control (I've gotten quite spoiled by that and only occasionally change the temperature setting; I wouldn't want a car without it now). But all of these things are easy to use, and configuring my preferences took all of a couple of minutes the night I bought my car without once consulting the owner's manual.

Cadillac has also been making significant strides in quality of materials and assembly and performance. I know build quality on 5th-generation Sevilles is hit and miss; Ryannel's 2000 STS has squeaks, rattles and less-than-stellar fit-and finish, while mine is tight as a drum 10 years and 100,000 miles later. The last of the Sevilles also had pretty nice materials inside (noted by an Automobile magazine review in August, 2001), particularly the wood, and the leather is much softer and luxurious feeling than the 3- and 5-Series BMWs I saw at the Chicago Auto Show this year.

While pricey, I think BMW can mostly justify their high prices, although popular option packages are awfully spendy (Cadillac is guilt of this, too). I've long thought, however that Mercedes have been overpriced and overrated for years. The interior on the C-Class I saw at the Chicago Auto Show was unbelievably cheap-looking inside. A Volkswagen Jetta had a more luxurious interior. But M-B has managed to coast on its reputation for years, and there are plenty of status seekers who want a three-pointed star regardless of the actual quality of the car.

Ahh yes the 5th Generation Seville was a complete hit or miss when it came to overall quality. I've been inside other Seville's that didn't make so much as a squeak when going over bumps or where even the glove box door was aligned properly and the dash hadn't warped. Mine hasn't really been that bad, but it surely isn't the best car when it comes to quality. What I did find out about my car (and not until about a year after I purchased it) was that it was involved in a wreck. Now the Carfax didn't show this at all and you really couldn't tell unless you looked closely. For example, my right front headlight was brand new and even had a date of 04/2005 listed on it. My dash also had a marking of 04/2005, and even though I know they tend to warp after old age there was no listing of dash replacement under warranty (I do have all the records on the car; it was maintained extremely well) so I actually attribute some of the problems my car has to that wreck which I'm guessing took out some of the front end and maybe even deployed the airbags. I just replaced my taillight because the old one had a bad water leak. My 3rd LED brakelight has just started going out and I've always had a random "Service Theft System" come on the dash every few days. I still love my car.

BMW's are nicely built, but even the newest Cadillac's are continuing to improve on the build quality when compared to the models that were being sold 10 years ago. I've never been impressed with Mercedes interiors, because I've driven a few and they just felt cheap. To be honest, I feel that of all luxury automakers Audi has the nicest looking and highest quality interior on the market. Lexus used to be at the top, but looking at the new models shows a considerable dip in materials compared to the old models.

gdwriter
09-27-10, 07:04 PM
Since some agree on the point that extravagance sells when it comes to this genre of cars, I think it's important to note the increased quality of "average" sedans. For example, my buddy just bought a 2007 Hyundai Azera with every feature that Gary loves about his Seville...yes, a lowly Hyundai. My girlfriends Malibu was available with many typical luxury appointments in LTZ trim and it drives better than most Cadillacs I've been in (though that is subjective).That's true. It's been an ongoing trend. It used to be that you rarely found cars with power windows other than the luxury makes, even into the 80s. Now it's hard to find a car with crank windows. Leather also used to be a rarity, but I wouldn't be surprised if more new cars came with leather than cloth. You can even get leather in what would be considered entry-level cars, although only in the higher trim versions.

If I were to buy a Malibu, it would have to be the LTZ model because it has more of the features I want, including auto climate control. It would also have to be a V6, because even though the current GM four is finally on par with competing fours, they all have that moan when accelerating that I don't like. I've heard rumors that the 2012 Malibu may only come with a four, as does the new Sonata. Too bad.

Hyundai has always done a good job of packing a lot of features into their cars at a reasonable price, and the new Sonata looks very competitive. I remember an Azera I sat in at the Chicago Auto Show looking and feeling like a Korean Buick LeSabre. That's not necessarily a bad thing; people have been calling the Avalon Toyota's Buick for years.

I didn't buy my second Cadillac for the image since my car only has to please one person: me. And it does. I will eventually buy a second-generation CTS because I love the distinctive styling inside and out, and the ones I've gotten to drive deliver the experience I want.

Stingroo
09-27-10, 07:55 PM
Bah, what a load. There's NEVER enough power when you have the itch. :devil: Part of you? You know as well as I, deep inside you know that MOST of you wants that LT1.

So get your ass going, start a thread about performance mods, take lots of pictures and link us. :)

That'll have to wait until the Spring. You're outing my secrets! :hide:

Night Wolf
09-28-10, 02:14 AM
I agree with the statements about entry level cars now being loaded with features.

Personally I think a lot of the stuff on new luxury cars is, as mentioned, gee-whiz toys just to sell the cars.

After having fully loaded (for their day) luxury cars, then two very basic vehicles - '94 Isuzu and '05 Jeep, I really learned a lot about what I personally really feel important in a modern daily driven vehicle. Most interestingly, it was not all the toys and gadets I once thouch it was. The Isuzu had power brakes and steering - pretty much standard now and I like them. The two things it didn't have, that I missed the most, that also sort of bugged me was no delay wipers and no cruise control. The Jeep is almost as equally plain as the Isuzu, but it has both delay wipers and cruise control.

To my surprise at first, when driving the Jeep, I don't miss any of the other electric toys. On a 4-door car, I would add power locks/windows to the list of what I feel should be standard.

I am also on the fence about automatic climate controls. It seems like when everything is on auto, I'll set a temp and it'll be just a tad too warm, so I change it 1 degree and then it is too cold. My '93 Coupe DeVille was pretty good about it actually, but still there sometimes. The '96 Town Car was horrible about it, on highway trips I was also changing up/down a degree to maintain the temp I liked (atleast it had steering wheel climate controls) and even my fathers '99 Grand Prix was doing the same.... I like to be able to control exactly where I want the air too.

As for leather seats - I can honestly say I don't like them... especially on an older car. I prefer cloth... actually velour was really nice and luxurious too.

The more I think about it though, the more I really think the above is why I like 80s BMW so much. The entire car, not just one part, is pretty much everything I would want in a daily driver, and minimal of what I don't want. Superb chassis/suspension, 4-wheel disc ABS brakes, modern fuel injection, nice and useful interior features and the list goes on. As mentioned in this thread, newer BMW's (and many other luxury cars) are overly complicated for various reasons and just not built as well.

I have heard that 1930s era and eariler cars didn't drive that well... but that post-war American cars drove much better in comparison. Not considering rareity/cost of ownership etc... my thinking is that if a car was perfectly able to be a daily driver in 1955, 1965 or 1985, then why can't it be one today? That goes for any car. Really, if someone accepts that the car is more at risk being driven then parked in a garage, and they keep up with preventative maintenace on an older car - there are very few reasons why any 25+ y/o car can't be daily driven. Personally that is also how I feel about these 80s era BMWs. They were premium cars in their day, and even though the values may be low now, they are still solid. Most of all though, they offer an excellent driving experience that in some cases matches newer cars... or in others is actually better. That is one of the main thing about the 80s era BMWs that I have driven vs American cars from the 80s... the American cars tended to either be luxo cruisers or econoboxes....today the land barges of the 80s for better or worse - offer a far different type of driving then new cars, and American econo cars in the 80s were mostly junk. Atleast for me that leaves these old BMWs as an interesting alternative - a car offering sort of "new car+" handling/driving feel, but in a ~20+ year old package that I really like.

Playdrv4me
09-28-10, 02:31 AM
To Rick's point, the number one modern "convenience" feature I most miss in cars that don't have it (and strangely I've been driving a rash of them lately) is Cruise Control. Power windows?, Meh. Power locks?, Meh. There was a time when I didn't even know cruise was an option on anything anymore because I just thought all cars had it. My Jeep does NOT have it, my 2002 Ram does NOT have it nor does the Geo Prism we drive all over the place on road trips. Radar cruise control goes one better by modulating the speed for you, so its one of the few "luxury" features that definitely has value. Then there are things that you would think someone would have made available by now that still aren't, or that WERE available in the 50s and 60s and mysteriously disappeared (and then are re-introduced as "new" with a bunch of fan-fare). An example of this is the IntelliBeam headlights on some of the recent Cadillacs (auto high-beam). It has not proven to be a terribly popular feature and to my knowledge no other manufacturer has even bothered with it. Citroen had the swiveling headlight thing down 30 or 40 years ago, yet manufacturers in 2004 pretended it was some sort of crazy new safety gadget.

My love of gadgets piqued in 2001 when I was bedazzled by the all new for the time 2001 LS430 Ultra Luxury (a 12,000.00 option package). It had a cool-box, radar cruise, rear seat recline, radio and climate controls, one of the first iterations of heated and cooled seats and on and on and on. Things that are still pretty competitive with the newest vehicles out today. Yet after all this time I find my list of must haves to be pretty short... Cruise control or Radar cruise control, Xenon or LED headlamps, Bluetooth vehicle/phone integration, a truly premium audio system and some sort of interesting color display SOMEWHERE in the dash. I don't even care if it has Navigation (the Pontiac G8 has a beautiful color screen and Nav isn't even an option), but the more color LCDs the better. That's it. Cooled seats and heated seats do nothing for me, and in most cars they don't even work very well, parking sensors are for those who can't park, air suspensions are more shit to fix later... you get the drift. I really love the intelligent keyless entry on the LS430, but I don't know if I would throw it in the "must have" pile yet. We'll mark that one as undecided.

Aron9000
09-28-10, 02:47 AM
I agree that gee whiz features do not define a luxury car for me. A new Ford Fiesta can be optioned up with more features and buttons than my old 1991 Cadillac, but that's not the point.

A luxury car is a design statement above all else IMO. Which is why I've never warmed up to Lexus or Hyundia's new offerings, if you're going to spend that kind of $$$, at least get something a little flashy. Gadgets for the sake of gadgets is pointless IMO when you're rolling along in a big $50,000 jellybean that looks like the $15,000 jellybean. Maybe I'm a little vain or whatever, but if I ever buy a new expensive car, I want people to notice. If you're trying to keep a low profile, I see no point on paying top dollar for one of those boring new Lexus or Hyundias.

Jesda
09-28-10, 02:48 AM
Gadgets? Buy an iPhone.

gdwriter
09-28-10, 03:14 AM
One feature I forgot to mention that I've really come to appreciate the RainSense wipers. As much rain as we get in Western Oregon, it's rarely consistent, and it's nice not to have to futz with the intermittent setting all the time.

Playdrv4me
09-28-10, 03:26 AM
On feature I forgot to mention that I've really come to appreciate the RainSense wipers. As much rain as we get in Western Oregon, it's rarely consistent, and it's nice not to have to futz with the intermittent setting all the time.

Oh yea I forgot about that. The ones in the LS430 work amazingly well... you can spit at the windshield and they'll go off. But the BMW ones are worthless and don't even seem all that automatic to begin with. Still not on the "must have" list though.

Aron9000
09-28-10, 03:29 AM
On feature I forgot to mention that I've really come to appreciate the RainSense wipers. As much rain as we get in Western Oregon, it's rarely consistent, and it's nice not to have to futz with the intermittent setting all the time.

That is pretty cool. Although instead of an intermittent setting like most cars have now days, I've always thought there should be a button by your left foot that would hit the wipers one time. Kind of like how the high beam switch used to be on the floor.

Stingroo
09-28-10, 10:12 AM
^ Why by your foot? The turn signal/wiper stalk on the wagon (and I assume many other cars, GM or otherwise) does this. Turn it toward you and release. Wipers swipe once and it clears all of that dew and other shit from the car after sitting overnight.

I'm on the other side of Ian's school of thought. I HATE the screens that manufacturers insist must now be in every car EVAR (to borrow a phrase). I'd be much happier if I never had to see one again. I also don't like the trend of radios being integrated into other trim pieces, etc. Whatever happened to the good old days? All you needed was to pull the bezel off with a flat blade screwdriver, pull the radio, unplug the harness (or cut, depending on what you were doing) and you were good to go. Things were even easier in Ford land; all you needed was two little tools that you insert into the holes in the factory head unit, and it pulled right out.

New car tech to me for the most part all seems overdone. The radar cruise control I can give a pass, because I don't think I would ever drive a vehicle with no cruise, or consider buying one. When my rear glass broke, the 3rd brake light was also out, so the electrical connectors weren't engaging, and on the wagons that means no cruise (I guess it's to prevent you from going on the highway with your window/door open or whatever). That was the most annoying 350 miles I've ever driven.

drewsdeville
09-28-10, 10:41 AM
^ Why by your foot? The turn signal/wiper stalk on the wagon (and I assume many other cars, GM or otherwise) does this. Turn it toward you and release. Wipers swipe once and it clears all of that dew and other shit from the car after sitting overnight.

I'm on the other side of Ian's school of thought. I HATE the screens that manufacturers insist must now be in every car EVAR (to borrow a phrase). I'd be much happier if I never had to see one again. I also don't like the trend of radios being integrated into other trim pieces, etc. Whatever happened to the good old days? All you needed was to pull the bezel off with a flat blade screwdriver, pull the radio, unplug the harness (or cut, depending on what you were doing) and you were good to go. Things were even easier in Ford land; all you needed was two little tools that you insert into the holes in the factory head unit, and it pulled right out.

New car tech to me for the most part all seems overdone. The radar cruise control I can give a pass, because I don't think I would ever drive a vehicle with no cruise, or consider buying one. When my rear glass broke, the 3rd brake light was also out, so the electrical connectors weren't engaging, and on the wagons that means no cruise (I guess it's to prevent you from going on the highway with your window/door open or whatever). That was the most annoying 350 miles I've ever driven.

My '66 Dodge has the washer fluid squirter on the floor :cool2:

Ford radio install sucked balls. Who wants to buy specialty tools for a one time use, especially for something as (what should be) simple as removing a radio? When I needed to remove a Ford radio, I had to sit there and fiddle with my own homemade version made out of coat hanger wire. Also, none of the aftermarket adapter manufacturers knew of a decent way to make a product for Fords screwy system, so most DIN adapters for Fords sucked. It was retarded. I'm a fan of regular screws and bolts.

Integrating into the trim pieces is great now that stock systems are more than adequate. In those "good old days" you speak of, stock systems sucked so if you wanted some listening pleasure, you had no choice but to upgrade. There really isn't much reason to upgrade anymore. Hell, I just replaced the outer tie rod end on a 2005 Magnum last week that had a frickin sweet Boston Acoustics system in it. Most of the aftermarkets I've heard sound like A$$ in comparison to it.

I'm personally a fan of the gadgetry. I enjoy automation. I like to DRIVE my car, so if my car can automatically keep me comfortable and happy with minimal interaction outside of the steering wheel, gas pedal, , clutch pedal, brake pedal, and stick shift, I'm all for it.

Stingroo
09-28-10, 11:10 AM
That's true, stock systems now ARE pretty awesome. I've never heard of the washer fluid on the floor thing. That's kind of interesting. It would probably bug me though, I have huge feet and in most cars my left foot can't do much more than just sit there, trying to fit in the normal sized footwells. lol

Night Wolf
09-28-10, 11:23 AM
The Ford radio remover tools are only like $5 at Advance Auto.

In fact when I bought the cd changer - aux input adapter from Crutchfield, they gave me a pair for free.

I agree though, I really enjoy music and like a good sounding stereo system in the car. I used to upgrade because it was mandatory, but newer cars have premium sound systems already.... and it really is hard to beat a quality factory system because they are designed to work with the car.

drewsdeville
09-28-10, 11:38 AM
I've never heard of the washer fluid on the floor thing. That's kind of interesting. It would probably bug me though, I have huge feet and in most cars my left foot can't do much more than just sit there, trying to fit in the normal sized footwells. lol

Not likely, in mine anyway, unless you're an elephant (literally):

68816

Stingroo
09-28-10, 12:16 PM
Oh, now that's kinda cool.

And lol. Hose clamps - fixing things other than hoses since 54 B.C. I swear everybody does that. :p

orconn
09-28-10, 12:18 PM
Since I have tended to keep "personal" cars for a long time if I liked the way they drove, I tend to favor the "less is more" attitude toward gadgets. While the gadgetry on cars, at least Cadillacs, has proven to be much more reliablein the last twenty years, the propensity of the gadgets to add to expensive repair (Mercedes and BMW are good exmples) cost as the cars age way outway their utility in my mind. Things like electric headlight washers (in California) or rear mounted radio antennas that cost upwards of $1000. to fix, or power windows that break over and over at great cost to fix (Audi). Everytime I go to a showroom and the salesman starts in on all the gadgets I always ask if the there is a model that deletes all those superfluous add-ons.

Then there is Aron's comment on a "luxury" car needing to be distinctive and beautiful in its' design. I know that I carp on the lack of differentiation in the design of todays cars in general and "luxury" cars in particular, but to me a car has to look as good as it drives and to display both its' distinctiveness and integrity as a quality driving machine before I layout my $60,000 to $100,000. It is for this reason that I have not been able to warm up to the recent models of Mercedes or BMW, or am attracted at all to Jaguar's new offerings. In both cases they are either flat out ugly or just a rehash of others' styling themes. That is why I still have my old '95 Seville STS, it may be short on the gadgets of today, but it is uniquely beautiful to my eyes and drives quite well for a personal luxury car. The same was true of my Alfa Romeo 164. This was not the case with my 2002 Mercedes CLK which I only kept around for a couple of years (all kinds of irelevant and hard to use gadgets just waiting to break!).

But let's face it truly beautiful cars with performance integrity only come along once in a great while, so gadgets or few gadgets are not as much of an incentive to buy, but rather the frosting on some pretty mediocre "luxury" cake and incentive to buy for thise who can't distinguish "steak" frpm 'hamburger!"

drewsdeville
09-28-10, 12:26 PM
Oh, now that's kinda cool.

And lol. Hose clamps - fixing things other than hoses since 54 B.C. I swear everybody does that. :p

The hose clamp is the previous owners method of mounting an oil pressure gauge :/

Night Wolf
09-28-10, 12:30 PM
I know that I carp on the lack of differentiation in the design of todays cars in general and "luxury" cars in particular,

I remember my grand father saying that 10 years ago about cars.... it seems to be common as time goes on.

Personally, since the 30's cars of each decade have looked overall, similar.

gdwriter
09-28-10, 12:43 PM
^ Why by your foot? The turn signal/wiper stalk on the wagon (and I assume many other cars, GM or otherwise) does this. Turn it toward you and release. Wipers swipe once and it clears all of that dew and other shit from the car after sitting overnight.Sounds like your Caprice has that old-style GM wiper/washer control on the turn signal stalk, because that's how it worked on Cruella. In the Seville (and my ex-wife's '03 Malibu), the wiper stalk is on the right, and you merely flick it down for a single swipe, and the stalk returns to the off position. Much more convenient than twisting the switch.

GM is probably still making cars with that old-style stalk. I don't know why they haven't standardized on the better design.

orconn
09-28-10, 12:45 PM
In general, I agree with you except when it comes to luxury cars. Senior Mercedes, BMW's and Audis were somewhat distinctive ... maybe not beautiful, but they didn't look so much like other cars of the decade. Jaguars were always very distictive and usually beautiful. Cadillacs, as they slipped from the "luxury" car bracket sometimes lost there distinctiveness. I also think that as you gain perspective (i.e. get older) you are less impressed with the stylists' little tweaks supposedly used to give differentiation to otherwise repettitious designs!

drewsdeville
09-28-10, 12:51 PM
I don't care much for stalks at all. I prefer my '66 and '90 over my '95, where the older ones use switches on the dashboard for cruise (not the 66) and wiper settings and the '95 uses the classic GM multi-function stalk.

A simple layout on the dahsboard is far more intuitive and logical than a bunch of ugly levers sticking out of the steering column, in my opinion.

Stingroo
09-28-10, 12:53 PM
That's very true, but I've become so used to the stalk on the wagon and the Olds (RIP) that I think buttons would be weird, at least for the first few weeks.

orconn
09-28-10, 01:14 PM
I don't care much for stalks at all. I prefer my '66 and '90 over my '95, where the older ones use switches on the dashboard for cruise (not the 66) and wiper settings and the '95 uses the classic GM multi-function stalk.

A simple layout on the dahsboard is far more intuitive and logical than a bunch of ugly levers sticking out of the steering column, in my opinion.

The steering column mounted control stalks were copied from the European designs of the 1960's even though they didn't really get rolling in American cars until the 1980's. Personally, I am with drew in prefering these controls to mounted on the dash. I also really wish we would go back to having the dimmer switch being a foot button on the floor. No need to bring back "Photomic" automatic dimmers, they were erratic in traffic and only somewhat reliable on the open highway, where human judgement was far superior when it came to dimming the high beams.

I do like the 6 and 8 way driver and passenger seats with two automatic settings to return the seats to individual driver's settings. Actually my wiffe likes all the "adgets" on her 2002 Seville, but especially the rain sensor and the heated seats, neither of which come under a "necessity" heading for me. But what both of us like about her car is the way it handles!

Stingroo
09-28-10, 01:16 PM
Nah, give me some Bonneville seats. 12 ways. :thumbsup: (I can't even think of 12 different ways to adjust a seat, but whatever.)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-28-10, 01:52 PM
The 1989-93 Fleetwood Sixty Special had 22 way power seats. I think that's gotta set some sort of a record.

Aron9000
09-28-10, 02:22 PM
I've ridden in the 02+ 7 series, that thing had like its own zip code of buttons to adjust the seats, next to your left knee on the center console of all places.

Stingroo
09-28-10, 03:13 PM
22 ways? Good god. lol

blue07cts
09-28-10, 05:48 PM
I love this thread, rick, we have very similar tastes, I miss this site, i have to remember to keep visiting even though i am no longer a cadillac owner, Bought myself my own type of projectvehicle as a DD, a 2007 MAZDA RX-8. Good luck with this car rick, i to love the older model BMW's the 8 series being in my top faves, as well as the 01-03 5 series, to me still some of BMW's best work.

hueterm
09-28-10, 06:10 PM
How do the old 635s compare to the 5s and 3s in terms of reliability/build quality? I know the 8 was a technological marvel/nightmare depending on your perspective....

LOVE this... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1986-BMW-635csi-RUST-FREE-Perfect-Condition-/270639429835?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3f035df8cb

Playdrv4me
09-28-10, 07:49 PM
I've ridden in the 02+ 7 series, that thing had like its own zip code of buttons to adjust the seats, next to your left knee on the center console of all places.

BMW tried to "break new ground" in WAY too many ways on that stupid thing. My 2003 was the only shitty BMW product I ever owned and everything in there was so overly done and in turn ended up becoming more COUNTER intuitive than intuitive. I remember after intense searching I finally found a cassette player to replace the CD player in the dash (since there was NO OTHER logical way to make an aux input other than removing a massive circuit board from the C pillar and soldering in a lead). Well it turns out every single piece, and I mean EVERY SINGLE electronic piece in that car is registered and tied to the M.O.S.T. Fiber optic bus, so replacing the cassette deck ended up resulting in a half working cassette deck (I think I had to remove the cassette adapter then re-insert it once I had the car on and the radio on) which somehow disabled my under seat subwoofers. Oddly enough, I am one of the few people I know who never found iDrive to be a problem.

Jesda
09-28-10, 07:55 PM
The flimsy stalk that GM used well into the late 90s was such a pathetic piece of design. It wobbled around even when new and it had exposed wires going around the back of the stalk on some vehicles for cruise control. It looked like something out of the Soviet Union. And when the cams on the turn signals broke (though it wasn't often), it cost as much as a couple hundred to fix.

http://www.americanluxurycar.com/Olds98/images/1982/Multi-FunctionLever.jpg
http://www.coldwar.hu/html/en/finding_aids/flags/Flag_USSR.jpg

gary88
09-28-10, 08:05 PM
Hey Rick, check out what this guy on bimmerforums did to his e28 (if you can call it that anymore)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1533285

orconn
09-28-10, 08:46 PM
How do the old 635s compare to the 5s and 3s in terms of reliability/build quality? I know the 8 was a technological marvel/nightmare depending on your perspective....

LOVE this... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1986-BMW-635csi-RUST-FREE-Perfect-Condition-/270639429835?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3f035df8cb

Probably much better than the Mercedes 560 SEC that you lust after, and probably a lot more fun to drive! If you were to go the 635 route be aware that their bodies were built by Karmann and were very prone to rust. Probably best to look for one that lived its' whole life in a rust free ebvironment.

hueterm
09-28-10, 09:41 PM
I thought the W126 was pretty much the pinnacle of overbuilding/overengineering....however, I'm sure the 6 would be much better in the twisties...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-28-10, 10:02 PM
A friend of a friend has an '83 633csi, and even with 345k on it, it'll still do 140. It's his $400 winter beater, with all sorts of rust and missing trim pieces.

Night Wolf
09-29-10, 12:17 AM
How do the old 635s compare to the 5s and 3s in terms of reliability/build quality? I know the 8 was a technological marvel/nightmare depending on your perspective....

LOVE this... http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1986-BMW-635csi-RUST-FREE-Perfect-Condition-/270639429835?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item3f035df8cb

Just the same!

e24's are very well-built cars. They actually predate the e28 and e30. M30 is one solid, torque filled engine and the cars are durable. Get one with a manual transmission and you'll be golden! They are nothing like the 8-series - the e24's are straight up old school durable BMW.

As for how do they drive? I've never driven one, but from what I heard they are much better suited as a cruiser than a "driving" car... which is all realitive because it's still a BMW and will out "drive" most anything from the US durring the time, but compared to the e28 and e30 it is more of a boat while the e30 is a drivers machine and the e28 is somewhere in between.

Of course this is all stock/mostly stock. With an aftermarket suspension setup you can turn it into whatever you want. Some people even track e23 7-series.

As for the wiper stalks. At first I liked my '79 SDV and '89 FWB with the wipers/lights/cruise on the dash in their own little "areas" but after having cars with the stalks, I much prefer.

GM's multifunction stalk wasn't that bad... but it wasn't until I first got the e30 that I realized just how useful the stalks were. The e30 (and e28) has 3 stalks. The left one is typical blinkers/high beams/flash, but when you push the end in, it cycles to the next selection on the trip computer. The wiper stalk is pull for wash/wipe, down for mist, then up for delay (single, preset), low and high, that is on the right. Below the wiper stalk is cruise control stalk. Cruise is a mix of up/down as well as push/pull for set/resume/accel/coast etc...

The way the car is designed though, when you hold the wheel with both hands, all the stalks are easy to reach with the fingertips. They are also designed slightly concave so your finger rests slightly on the ends nicely. They are not super high resistance, but enough to feel solid. You can use the turn signals, flash your lights or cycle between high/low beams, have full control of the wipers and cruise control without ever removing a palm form the wheel. It is something that is hard to explain until you are driving the car and notice it, but I like it so much.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-29-10, 12:20 AM
I like the multifunction stalk on all my GM cars. It's intuitive and easy to use. My S-Class had three different stalks on the steering column, one for blinkers, one for cruise control and one for wipers. Blinkers were on the left, and the other two were both on the right side, but angled differently.

Night Wolf
09-29-10, 12:26 AM
Hey Rick, check out what this guy on bimmerforums did to his e28 (if you can call it that anymore)

http://forums.bimmerforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1533285

Well, it's interesting and original... actually the more I look at it the more it isn't *that* bad... I would change some things... like replace the wire with actual door handles on the outside and dump the wheels.

I have sort of thought of going with a rat rod flat black on my e28, but I don't think that is the direction I want to go with it. Though an old worn e28 does have a certain rat rod/deathrace look to it, or atleast could reach that point easily... then again most older cars that simply won't die but are neglected can sort of bring on that appearance.

Night Wolf
09-29-10, 12:33 AM
I thought the W126 was pretty much the pinnacle of overbuilding/overengineering....however, I'm sure the 6 would be much better in the twisties...

While the BMWs were very well built and durable... even the W123 and W126 surpasses them.... those things are literally rolling German tanks for the masses... but they also show/feel it.

If you want a roomy/comfy 80s era BMW with very good power and excellent handling, I would have to reccomend an e28 535is. If you wanted something smaller that even drove/handled better then the e30 would be the ticket.

Aron9000
09-29-10, 02:10 AM
The flimsy stalk that GM used well into the late 90s was such a pathetic piece of design. It wobbled around even when new and it had exposed wires going around the back of the stalk on some vehicles for cruise control. It looked like something out of the Soviet Union. And when the cams on the turn signals broke (though it wasn't often), it cost as much as a couple hundred to fix.

http://www.americanluxurycar.com/Olds98/images/1982/Multi-FunctionLever.jpg


Just like a lot of GM stuff, that lever was/is a great idea. Just horribly executed in such a cheap manner it feels like a piece of crap. Its pretty sad when the turn signal stalk on our old 1985 200k mile Toyota truck feels nicer than a brand new 1990's Cadillac. Thank goodness my 1991 is so old it doesn't use that POS, its probably MY single biggest gripe about GM cars of the 80's/90's.

hueterm
09-29-10, 09:49 AM
While the version shown above was a piece of crap, later redesigns weren't. However, the internal mechanism inside the column of my ETC had to be completely replaced after my steering wheel started smoking at a stop light.....

However, on cars w/a separate wiper stalk, I do like the feature where you tap it up for the mist control. The GM twist method makes you take your hand off of the wheel....

Stingroo
09-29-10, 01:34 PM
True, but that never bothers me, I drive with one hand usually anyway. If I find the need to drive with two hands, chances are I'm doing something I shouldn't (i.e. sliding around corners). :lol:

Jesda
09-29-10, 02:02 PM
The stalk on my 92 STS wobbled around like a limp dick. Every time you used it the piece of junk felt like it was going to crumble to pieces. Cost about $200 to remove and replace damaged turn cams. The one in the '95 Vandura had exposed wiring in the back for cruise, like GM couldn't be bothered to run the wire INSIDE OF THE DAMN STALK.

This is, in small part, why we have today's "Government Motors."

Playdrv4me
09-29-10, 06:06 PM
I thought the W126 was pretty much the pinnacle of overbuilding/overengineering....however, I'm sure the 6 would be much better in the twisties...

I guess it is debatable between the W126 and W140. The W140 is pretty much universally recognized as the car Mercedes sank everything they had into attempting to surpass and modernize the legendary W126. In that sense I suppose you could call the W126 the "benchmark", however the W140 was so over engineered and the budget went so far out of whack that Mercedes actually LOST money on the entire platform for a time (though I think that story has been somewhat exaggerated as time as passed, and surely by the 1996 mid-life freshening the thing had more than paid itself off). Everywhere you look in the W140 you can see evidence of things just being ridiculously overdone. You also see it clearly when you go and buy a damn part for the thing and its even pricier coupe brother. Looks-wise, the W126 has worn through time MUCH better than the W140, which just looks by now like a 1990s appliance. A gorgeous 1990s appliance, but an appliance no less, and VERY '90s.

Conversely, look around the cabin of the successor W220, and you can see nothing but cost cutting at every turn.

Perhaps the ultimate compromise of that era...
http://www.blackforestllc.com/images/Web-44874_128163437.jpg

Of course, you can't mention the W124 Cabrio without giving due honors to the Porsche inspired/engineered E500 in the same breath...
http://www.lancashirecarstorage.co.uk/for-sale/e500/e500-mercedes-benz-02.jpg

hueterm
09-29-10, 07:27 PM
That is awesome too......

Jesda
09-29-10, 08:15 PM
W124 is pure 80s awesomeness. I can already hear Tears for FEars playing in my head.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-29-10, 08:31 PM
Ooh, imagine this Jesda: Rolling around in a W124 listening to Spandau Ballet's "True"! :cool2: Can't get much more "80s" than that now.

I love the fact that the W140 is so '90s. I love cars that are very period heavy. Such as the Mark IV/V Lincolns for the '70s, the Mark VII/Taurus for the '80s, and the W140 for the '90s. Other definitive '90s cars include the Expedition & Explorer, minivans, etc etc. A definitive '00s car would be the Prius, Focus, etc etc.

hueterm
09-29-10, 08:43 PM
Other than the fact that it isn't a greenfreak gas sipping clown car, what makes it a '90s car?

Jesda
09-29-10, 08:58 PM
The ultimate expression of wealth in the 90s was a full size Mercedes. W140 for the upper class, W124 for the middle and upper middle.

My dad's black/black W124 is magnificent. I think he's only put 10,000 miles on it in six years. It really is a treat to cruise down the road in that thing. They don't make them like they used to, and probably never will again.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-29-10, 09:22 PM
Other than the fact that it isn't a greenfreak gas sipping clown car, what makes it a '90s car?

To me, the W140 embodies the high life in the '90s. Conspicious consumption at it's best. It's big, it's bold, it's highly desired, it's elegant. This was the car that Audi & BMW chased after and almost caught up with (in terms of sheer status). It was before being "green" was cool and sought after. IIRC, hybrids didn't really pick up in popularity until the early '00s. Back in the '90s, America still had the (great) bigger is better mentality. SUV's were flying out of the showrooms. Everyone and their dad had a pickup truck. OJ was cruising around in his Bronco. Lincoln sold tons of Town Cars (as did FoMoCo with the other Panthers)

But, IMO, most cars weren't as physicially appealing as they were in the '80s. Gone were the straight-edged formal lines of the '80s cars, replaced by the compound curves of the jelly bean '90s cars. A great example of that would be the 1995 Lumina v. the 1985 Celebrity, or the 1985 Brougham v. the 1995 Brougham, etc etc. The german cars were some of the few that actually stuck to rigid, formal lines for the most part.

Stingroo
09-29-10, 09:26 PM
1991 Caprice = bubbletastic.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-29-10, 09:28 PM
Yes, but aside from the curves, I would not call the Caprice a definitive '90s car. It's a straight throwback to the '70s, a time when everyone wanted a big full size body on frame sedan. It definitely does not fit in with the typical '90s cookie cutter cars.

drewsdeville
09-29-10, 09:31 PM
Yes, but aside from the curves, I would not call the Caprice a definitive '90s car. It's a straight throwback to the '70s, a time when everyone wanted a big full size body on frame sedan. It definitely does not fit in with the typical '90s cookie cutter cars.

Maybe it's underpinnings and archaic design don't, but the Caprices styling absolutely SCREAMS '90's. It's the one vehicle out there were you could hand a non-auto enthusiast a picture and ask them what era it came from, and they'd know. Everything about it sums up the '90's as a whole. It has no '70's and '80's "box" characteristics, and it's too tall and bloated in width with too much overhang on both ends to be the '00's. It's interior is typical GM "corporate" from the '90's as well.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-29-10, 09:37 PM
Exactly. The overall design was incredibly '90s, but the car it's self was a throwback to a different time. The '90s were the last time you could really buy a car of it's size. You could never release a sedan of that's size in today's world. (yes, I know you could buy a Town Car/Grand Marquis/Crown Victoria up until a year or two ago, but they weren't newly released models, but rather they just lingered on without any fanfare or promotion)

Night Wolf
09-29-10, 11:01 PM
The flimsy stalk that GM used well into the late 90s was such a pathetic piece of design. It wobbled around even when new and it had exposed wires going around the back of the stalk on some vehicles for cruise control. It looked like something out of the Soviet Union. And when the cams on the turn signals broke (though it wasn't often), it cost as much as a couple hundred to fix.

http://www.americanluxurycar.com/Olds98/images/1982/Multi-FunctionLever.jpg


Both my '89 Olds and '93 CDV had that multifunction stalk.

I guess I'd be the oddball and say I liked it? Maybe it is just because that is what I was used to for so long and at the time liked everything grouped together like that.... and I'll also say that neither of the stalks on my car felt flimsy or wobbled around, though it has been years since I used one so maybe my feelins would be different now.

I do know that I really liked how it was directly left of the wheel. The newer version of that stalk on my fathers '99 Grand Prix and mom/stepfathers '98 Park Ave (which IMO looks/feels cheaper) is rotated around the wheel a bit more and sorta sticks up and to the left - I don't like the positioning compared to the eariler design, though it is better built without the cams.

Life with a big body Benz.... wanna be a....baller....shot caller....twenty-inch blades on the Impala....

InGtiEXQyF0&ob=av3e

Though they don't even show an Impala in the video. Speaking of 90s stuff, other then being a one hit wonder, that song is one of the strong "90s" songs to me - lyrics, music and video. Makes a cool ringtone too.

Night Wolf
09-29-10, 11:36 PM
Since so much of the interior was out already, I decided to remove the carpet. It was a bit more involved than the e30 but still not too bad. I pressure washed to today and it was supposed to be sunny all week, then it rained. Ah well, it got rinsed again. It was really nasty. Under the carpet wasn't any big surprises. Some little areas of surface rust, mostly around seams while I'll get the corded drill and a wire wheel to remove then hit with some rattle can.

While the interior/carpet is out I am going to (properly) reqire the entire sound system. I was thinking it would be a great time to install a 4ch amp and sub, but I also am going to do that with the e30, so I'd rather put the funds into that. For now the e28 will stick with the cheap/basic Durabrand cd player and factory speakers. Actually the factory speakers are, well, pretty incredible for 80s factory car audio and I have heard that being properly amped they sound even better. Maybe some time in the future I'll build a nice sound system for it (out of my 3 vehicles - it is best suited for one) but for now it'll do. i've had vehicles that I drove cross-country with much worse sounding systems before. he head unit actually isn't "bad" it is just cheap/basic. It does have an am/fm tuner that pulls pretty good though, a cd player, lights up orange so it matches the car... and a front-mounted aux input (pretty much the main thing saving it). It dosent have any rca outputs or anything, but that is ok. I thought about swapping over the fancy Pioneer from the e30, but then I'd have to buy another HU for that car, which I don't want to do, so it stays.

This is pretty much the furthest the car, interior wise will be disassembled (not much left I suppose...) The headliner will get scrubbed and things will start getting fixed. before the door panels go back on anything broken or needing attention within the door will get fixed.

The carpet, while better, still dosen't look that good. Seeing how well the e30 carpet came out being painted, I am going to do the same with the e28 carpet.

I cleaned the trunk lid mat, the e30 dosen't even have this. A new trunk seal is $75, and while I can't really justify buying chassis mechanical parts from a junkyard, trim/interrior stuff is fair game. I'm sure one of the four e28s at the local place will have a good trunk seal.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/carpet001.jpg

It can still be cleaned further, but it would require scrubbing with some sort of a brush, not just a rag... I think it'll stay like this though.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/carpet004.jpg

naked!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/carpet006.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/carpet008.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/carpet010.jpg

removed nastiness

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/carpet012.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/carpet013.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/carpet014.jpg

Smoking is a nasty habit. To me, it is among the worst... it is just flat out sickening.

In these pictures, I pressure washed the drivers side of the carpet, but not the passenger side, of course water still made its way there, but it wasn't being hit with the pressure washer wand. With that said, this crap is so nasty that it turned the water into liquid yuck just from standing there.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/carpet015.jpg

....it can even be seen rinsing away on the driveway.... it is so nasty.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/carpet018.jpg

mmmmm to all the smokers out there... this is what your lungs look like

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/carpet019.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/carpet020.jpg

Then the whole thing done, and I went over it a few times. Now it'll sit out for a few days to dry... though it rained tonight, then it'll get painted.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/carpet023.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/carpet024.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/carpet025.jpg

blue07cts
09-30-10, 12:35 AM
Wow that was pretty nasty carpet, although it should look awesome painted!

orconn
09-30-10, 12:42 AM
The ultimate expression of wealth in the 90s was a full size Mercedes. W140 for the upper class, W124 for the middle and upper middle.

My dad's black/black W124 is magnificent. I think he's only put 10,000 miles on it in six years. It really is a treat to cruise down the road in that thing. They don't make them like they used to, and probably never will again.

Whenever I see one of those W140s it brings back memories of fat German burghers tooling around Munich with there equally fat wives by their side. But Jesda is right for all those that could afford them the W140 was the epidome of prestige in the '90s. The 7 series BMWs were for those who wanted to be different or in the case of several of my friends, had had a bad experience with their last Mercedes. In the prestige marketplace their just wasn't any competition, except if you were really loaded and unintouch with the economy a new Rolls=Royce!

Stingroo
09-30-10, 12:49 AM
RR's are in a totally different category though. Like, TOTALLY different.

orconn
09-30-10, 01:06 AM
RR's are in a totally different category though. Like, TOTALLY different.

Not really, if you lived in L.A. or New York! In the nineties if you were spending 60,000 to a 100,000 grand on a Mercedes another $100,000 grand or so wasn't much of a stretch. Remember in the late 1990's suitable housing in an appropriaate neighborhood started at around $5 million and that was just for you "town house." So the $250,000 that a standard Rolls cost in the 1990's didn't require a lot of agonizing .... however, flaunting it with a Rolls was and still is taboo among many very rich.

orconn
09-30-10, 01:14 AM
The e28's carpet is beyond nasty, I'd throw a tarp over it before someone calls the health department! I hope all your vaccinations are current!

Night Wolf
10-01-10, 02:24 AM
In the e28 world, the 528e is the unloved stepchild... no doubt because it is made for economy and not performance. Between a 528e and 535i (3.5L M30 powered) I would choose the 535i... but the more I am around the 528e, the more I like it. It has the M20, which I am already familer with and (like the M30) has proven itself time and time again for durability. But, atleast for me, the 528e fits better as this car is going to be a daily driver, highway cruiser when I don't want a convertbile or when I want to move 4-5 people in comfort, none of which requires mega power, plus I have the 325iC for speed and driving fun. For my intentions with this car, I'll enjoy the 5-10mpg improvement over a 535i.

Instead of rewiring the stereo yesterday I decided to finish a project I already started - valve adjustment and spark plugs.

The spark plugs looked fairly new, so I cleaned them up with a wire brush and regapped them.

Pulled the valve cover:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/valveadjust001.jpg

No surprises and overall, clean for 24 years old with likely around 250k miles. It is pretty incredible how different the eta engine is from the "i" for both being an M20. The eta only has 4 cam bearings vs 7 for less internal friction, and also has single valve springs vs dual. Redline is 5000RPM vs 6500RPM. The crank, pistons, head and manifolds are all different. Compression is actually slightly higher - 9.0 vs 8.8, both run on 87 octane. While the intake is similar in shape, I much prefer the "i" intake - it just looks so much better. The eta engine has the roundel on the valve cover which is neat.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/valveadjust002.jpg

The valve adjustment is simple and straight forward. Half the valves can be adjusted, then I just push the car in gear to turn the engine to get the other half (spark plugs were removed at this time). Adjusting the valves on the BMW is different then the Isuzu, but same concept. All the valves were in need of adjustment - probably the first time it has been done in years.

At the end of each rocker arm is a 10mm nut, that is backed off and the eccentric can then turn. A hex key is used to rotate it via the small hole. The spec is .008", my feeler gauges have .008, .009 and .010. I loosen up the gap and insert the .009 feeler and rotate until it is a rather tight pull, then tighten down the 10mm nut. I then use .008 as a go and .010 as a no-go, so the .008 slides in free but .010 won't and it is good. I used the paper towels to mark which valves were done.

This engine has the older style hex head bolts while the e30's M20 has the newer style torx bolts. Either way, it is fine and it went this long then I am not worried about it - also is evidence (but not a guarantee) the head was never removed.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/valveadjust005.jpg

The stock valve cover looks good (the e30 was covered in 20 year old cosmoline and everything was nasty) so I didn't bother to paint the valve cover up. However the rusty looking exhaust manifolds and heat sheilds were an eyesore, so I quickly hit them with some hi-temp flat black.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/valveadjust006.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/valveadjust007.jpg

Between the cleaned/gapped spark plugs (along with new cap and rotor) and a valve adjustment, it idles real nice and sounds strong. The O2 sensor light is on and I am sure it is old, I'm going to pick up a generic and wire it in. Engine runs real nice, still has a slight miss now and then.... still lots of little things it could be, but overall the thing runs super good and strong. I haven't driven it other then move it around in the driveway as there is no interior (seat) in the car.

I then decided to fix the fog lights. The drivers side light was hit by a rock and sorta cracked (but all there) though there was a small hole. I filled the hole with some RTV. The passenger side bracket was bent back, but in the trunk the undamaged foglight was wrapped in tin foil. Both the lenses wre sandblasted from highway driving, but that was ok. One of the bulbs was even still good, and I just so happened to have a spare H3 foglight bulb in the glove box of the e30. The passenger side bracket simply bend back into place, nothing was broke.

I don't mind these fogs, they are factory and they look out of place. I was really happy with how tinting the e30s fogs came out, so I did the same thing to the e28.

Hood opens the wrong way :( I forgot to tap the running light for it to come on in the picture (contacts dirty)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/valveadjust008.jpg

Both still need some adjustment (more bending to striaghten and aim) but I'm happy with the results.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/valveadjust011.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/valveadjust012.jpg

I should just pretend the black hood is carbon fiber - FUH RAZE!!1!!1!!!!1!

So far total cost is $500 car, $20 tow dolly, $60 in fluids and about $40 in misc stuff from the auto parts store so far, everything else is just a matter of time and actually doing things, or I already had parts/supplies on hand. I am going to make a junkyard run for some major items, do something about wheels/tires and finally order the parts needed to fix whats broke and bring the car up to par.

hueterm
10-01-10, 02:29 AM
That carpet is unbelievable!! You'll have to call the EPA to clean your driveway now...

Jesda
10-01-10, 03:51 AM
I'm shocked at how reasonable it looks under the valve cover! I bet my Saab is coked up with all kinds of stuff. Mobil 1 has helped quiet the top end clatter.

I'll drive any M20-powered BMW. Its simple, light, and space-efficient. You get some European engineering combined with the servicing ease of an old American car.

Night Wolf
10-01-10, 04:08 AM
The M20 dosen't take well to new oils as they don't have the addatives needed for the direct-acting rockers on the cam. That bar that runs across the head is the oil bar, there are holds under it and oil drops down onto the cam.

I run Chevron Delo/Shell Rotella T/Mobil Delvac 15w-40 in it, it likes it. Of all the common grades, 20w-50 is the one to use, but quik lube places just throw 10w-30 in them - they are not made for that light of an oil nor do they like it.

The HD oil has a lot of detergent and after a few changes it really cleans the inside of the engine up. I only did one oil change on the 528e so far and I just wanted to get the old nasty stuff out, next time I'll run a can of seafoam through the crankcase for a while before I drain it.

Speaking of M20's and Mobil 1...

gHmMlU8Q-V8

Nh4CsH3iOcw

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-01-10, 09:24 AM
Rick, is that 528e about the same size overall as the 86-91 Seville?

Night Wolf
10-02-10, 03:48 AM
Rick, is that 528e about the same size overall as the 86-91 Seville?

From a quick browse, the e28 wheelbase is 103.5" with a 182" length.

1991 Seville wheelbase 108" length 190.8"

In comparison your '92 SDV was riding a wheelbase of 113.7" with an overall length of 206.3"

My e28 has a curb weight around 2,950lbs if my searching is correct... which actually puts it right around the same weight of the e30 convertible. In all forms, it could have been had with engines ranging from 1.8L carburator ro the 286hp ///M5 flavor. lowestest powered/slowest the US got was the 528e with the 2.7 eta M20, which puts it about mid-range in the overall e28 ladder as far as engine power.

The car, overall, makes efficent use of its' space. I like the size/feel of it for a comfort daily driver.

gary88
10-03-10, 06:28 PM
I was going through some stuff today, and I found this brochure for the e12 I bought last year.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/108/img4027qf.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4027qf.jpg)

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9263/img4028o.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4028o.jpg)

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/2263/img4029n.jpg (http://img704.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4029n.jpg)

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/8168/img4030r.jpg (http://img820.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4030r.jpg)

ben.gators
10-03-10, 06:43 PM
The main discussion of thread so far is about durability and reliability of BMWs built in 80s, as I myself agree with it... It seems that BMW itself knows this fact very good and reflects it in its new advertisement... It is a while that the BMW advertisement on TV is increased. In the main ad 90% of the time 80s BMWs are shown and the guy speaks about reliability of BMW, and then in a few scene the new BMW 3 series are presented...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-03-10, 08:24 PM
I was going through some stuff today, and I found this brochure for the e12 I bought last year.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/108/img4027qf.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4027qf.jpg)

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9263/img4028o.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4028o.jpg)

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/2263/img4029n.jpg (http://img704.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4029n.jpg)

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/8168/img4030r.jpg (http://img820.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4030r.jpg)

Can I buy it??


What's an E12? Looking at the copyright date on the bottom right corner of the last page of the brochure, it looks like 1978. Am I seeing that right?


Rick, I dunno if you saw this in my other thread, but I figured I'd post it here for your viewing pleasure.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/Chadillac8705/Cars%20and%20Coffee/IMG_7546.jpg

Night Wolf
10-04-10, 05:26 AM
I was going through some stuff today, and I found this brochure for the e12 I bought last year.

http://img163.imageshack.us/img163/108/img4027qf.jpg (http://img163.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4027qf.jpg)

http://img153.imageshack.us/img153/9263/img4028o.jpg (http://img153.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4028o.jpg)

http://img704.imageshack.us/img704/2263/img4029n.jpg (http://img704.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4029n.jpg)

http://img820.imageshack.us/img820/8168/img4030r.jpg (http://img820.imageshack.us/my.php?image=img4030r.jpg)

....... what did you do with the car?

*edit* you bought the book, not a car - lol.

Fun fact:

The e30 325e and e28 528e both use the same engine - the eta M20 at 2.7L.

Because the 325i used a 2.5L version of the M20, BMW did not want to call the eta a 328e because most people would just see a higher number and think it means better/more powerful - but the 2.7L eta engine was tuned for low RPM torque and fuel economy. The "i" is higher HP and high RPM, and is a faster car then the eta.

The 528e though, atleast in the US did not have an "i" version of the M20 to worry about, the other model was the M30-powered 535i (3.4L) so even with the larger number for the eta engine, it was still lower then the M30.

Why didn't BMW call it the 527e? Because as the brouchure above shows, the previous 5-series sold in the US was a 528i, and the general dumb public would see 527e and think lower number = a step backwards from the outgoing car.

It's silly at first, but further thought makes me think BMW was onto something - people are stupid.

Just like the new 128i/328i and 135i/335i, they are both a 3.0L I6.... one is boosted, one isn't.

Night Wolf
10-04-10, 05:31 AM
Can I buy it??


What's an E12? Looking at the copyright date on the bottom right corner of the last page of the brochure, it looks like 1978. Am I seeing that right?


Rick, I dunno if you saw this in my other thread, but I figured I'd post it here for your viewing pleasure.
http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j313/Chadillac8705/Cars%20and%20Coffee/IMG_7546.jpg

e12 was the first 5-series, just like the e21 was the first 3-series. Because of the e30s mega greatness, the e21 is really left out of a lot - though it isn't a bad car. The e12 has held up a bit better. The e28 replaced the e12 then the e34 replaced the e28.

The e28 is just about completely based off the e12s design - it was a very good one. Which is also why the e34 really changed so much from the e28... the e28 was already an "old" design.... but one that aged quite well.

I didn't see the other thread yet.... whats the story with that car, is it a friends? The foglight needs to be bent back and tow hook cover snapped back up.

Here is a neat, but short video on the history of the 5-series.

The BMW headquarter building shown in the video is a design made of 4 main cylinders - which was done because the the M10 turned BMW around and thus saved them.... so they recognized the lowly 4 cylinder in their new headquarters. The M10 first came out in the 2002 and was a peppy engine for that car, it was used in the e21 and carried over to the e30 for the early 318i... by that time it was under powered and now gets picked on a lot.... but the things are some of the most durable engines BMW ever built, also had the longest production run engine from BMW. The S14 used in the e30M3 is based off the M10 as well.

d2KkZGy4tLw

heh, a commercial for the 528e....MICROPROCESSORS - I LOVE MICROPROCESSORS!!!111!11!

N99OyDXa6Ho&feature=related

As for the suspension - it has coil overs on all 4 wheels, which I thought was pretty cool and also impressive for the age.

This is really cool and old Top Gear bit on the e28. The euro cars had larger low beams with the smaller high beam lights, US cars had the quad lights of same size.

dIJ0qZvlL4U&feature=related

When he talks about colors, he mentiones Zinnoberrot red, thats the color of my e30 convertible... a very sharp color, I think it looks great on the e28 as well.

They also talk abotu resetting the service lights.... you don't need to go to a dealer, or buy a tool.... an unbent paperclip to jump 2 of the pins on the diagnostic connector is all that is needed, same for the e30.

ejguillot
10-07-10, 12:24 AM
Rick, you're making me want to get one of these (preferably a manual trans 535is) as a project car! How's the 528e coming along?

Stingroo
10-07-10, 12:38 AM
So the Official GM Diagnostic Paper Clip can be used in BMW applications too. Nice.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-07-10, 12:53 AM
E28s are OK, but I far prefer the 1980 Cadillac Seville. It's a classic design done up by the best head of design that GM has ever had, and arguably ever will have. I find that the E28, much like any other BMW from the '80s, has a cold, clinical feeling inside and out that harkens back to the days of Brezhnev and the Berlin Wall. The E28 looks like any other '80s car, aside from the almighty 126 and 124 M-B, but the Seville looks like nothing else. I also prefer the Seville's cavernous interior room, soft leather seats, smooth automatic transmission and American-tuned ride. Still a bit more "european" riding than a full sized Cadillac, but it won't shake your teeth loose like the E28.

Jesda
10-07-10, 01:15 AM
I also prefer MB when it comes to cars from the 80s. Nothing epitomizes Reagan-era prosperity like a tri-star. But the BMWs are pleasingly simple which makes them great as used classics, and they can be thrown around corners quite nicely. Tough call.

gdwriter
10-07-10, 01:22 AM
E28s are OK, but I far prefer the 1980 Cadillac Seville. It's a classic design done up by the best head of design that GM has ever had, and arguably ever will have. I find that the E28, much like any other BMW from the '80s, has a cold, clinical feeling inside and out that harkens back to the days of Brezhnev and the Berlin Wall. The E28 looks like any other '80s car, aside from the almighty 126 and 124 M-B, but the Seville looks like nothing else. I also prefer the Seville's cavernous interior room, soft leather seats, smooth automatic transmission and American-tuned ride. Still a bit more "european" riding than a full sized Cadillac, but it won't shake your teeth loose like the E28.Don't forget the fake wood!

http://www.gdwriter.com/19.jpg

Although I much prefer real wood, some fake wood is done quite well. Early 80s Cadillacs used a simulated teak that was rather handsome.

Night Wolf
10-07-10, 01:46 AM
E28s are OK, but I far prefer the 1980 Cadillac Seville. It's a classic design done up by the best head of design that GM has ever had, and arguably ever will have. I find that the E28, much like any other BMW from the '80s, has a cold, clinical feeling inside and out that harkens back to the days of Brezhnev and the Berlin Wall. The E28 looks like any other '80s car, aside from the almighty 126 and 124 M-B, but the Seville looks like nothing else. I also prefer the Seville's cavernous interior room, soft leather seats, smooth automatic transmission and American-tuned ride. Still a bit more "european" riding than a full sized Cadillac, but it won't shake your teeth loose like the E28.

Have you ever ridden in an e28? What about drive one?

As for styling - it is purely subjective. In my eyes, the only other 80s cars the e28 looks like, are other 80s BMW's... meanwhile so many American cars of the 80s look alike. Good or bad? It is what it is. I never took notice to them in the past as I wasn't interested in them. I see a whole lot of really nice, subtle styling cues that really make the car stand out.

I've been driving the car to work and back. Finally got it registered eariler this week, so now it is legal. The draglink is still shot, every trip keeps me wondering if the frontend is going to hold together. The whole interior is out, except for the drivers seat. Due to the bad draglink, trashed tires and probably a bad alignment, the car pulls to the right. Shifting hard results in a hard rear clunk due to the shot diff mount, brakes work very well though. I have been very easy on the car overall, though between smooth shifting gears, I will get on it... and the eta engine is quite powerful for what it is. It dosen't feel "slow" and is really well suited for more of a "laid back" type of driving. The transmission feels very tight, synchros don't feel worn at all.... upshifts and downshifts are smooth... it still has broken transmission mounts and totally worn out shifter linkage.

I just can't get enough of this car... even in the state of condition it is in now - really shouldn't be driven... I am hooked. It is like a big, comfier e30. I tossed the original torn up drivers seat back in and because they are on actual springs, plus the design, they are so comfortable. The arm rest is very comfortable and is perfectly positioned to easily and comfortably shift gears with my arm resting on it.

The ride is really nice for a daily driver. The suspension feels tight and with the exception of the drag link and shot tires, is in overall good condition. I haven't pushed the car hard in the turns yet, but under all normal driving, it has a softish but connected ride/feel. Hard to explain... it dosen't ride firm, but it dosen't float. Hitting large bumps/dips causes the car to go up/down only once, and that is it. I've had it up to 65ish and taken some basic turns at 60... I really don't trust the bald tires, but from what I can tell, the car has the same "wants to turn" feel as the e30, it dosen't feel like I am pushing it or wrestling with it, it feels natural.

I adjusted all 4 headlights and both foglights..... it's nice to actually have light now, and they light up the road really well.

Interior noise right now is a mix of some heavy metal on metal clunks from the front end, plus due to no insulation, carpet or door panels, is just overall loudish. I rewired the whole stereo thought and all speakers work and sound great. Climate control consists of windows open or closed as everything is disconnected.

Through all of this, the car is averging 30mpg too.

Last week I went to the local junkyard that has 4 e28s, most of the cars either have doors or windows broken/missing/open... but this e28 was all closed up and even had crappy tint on the windows (less sun inside) This same car has been there for a long time as I got some interior switches from it 1.5yrs ago for the e30. i didn't think much of it then, but it was a goldmine for me now!

Cat-approved:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo002.jpg

The car has 3 original 14" BBS basketweave wheels, one of which is slightly bent, and the 4th wheel is an odd TRX 390mm wheel (look it up if interested) with no spare. all tires are shot. So I needed wheels and tires for this thing. The e28 has 5-lug hubs and most all BMW's have 5x120mm bolt pattern, which means any wheels through the 90s and later will fit.

I found a vauge ad (the best kinds!) for a set of 4 wheels and tires. They are 15" BBS basketweaves said to be from a '99 528i. The tires have about 50% tread overall, and are evenly worn.... they are far better then what is on the car now. They are a bit too big for the car at 215/65/15 and the car with a 15" rim should have 205/60, but they will fit and will do the job for a while. I will keep 1 of the 2 unbent original 14" wheels as a spare.

The newer BMW's use a slightly larger hub, so I had to buy hub centric rings to use as an adapter - $10 shipped for a set of 4 will let me properly and safely use the wheels on the car.

$300 later (jokes about cost of wheels vs car come to mind...)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo008.jpg

Then I did some big scores at the junkyard. A bunch of misc interior stuff (new drivers door kick plate as it was broke etc...) but one of the e28s had a hood liner, kinda worn... but much better then the ugly underside of the hood that was exposed.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo007.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo010.jpg

The car had the same color/style interior as mine. Someone removed the bottom portion of the rear seat, otherwise I'd have a nearly mint interior, but I took the back part.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo006.jpg

Major score.... were the front seats. Overall in excellent condition (car was an '88, odo was 198k, car hit in the rear). I took the cluster too, and the odo gears are probably broke, so it may have more miles on it.

The driver seat has a bit of wear on the bolster from getting in/out, but otherwise is in good shape. When I sat in the car the right portion of the seat was leaning back if I leaned against it, so something on the frame is broke, or the power recline is stripped.... or something.... Between the two sets of seats I now have, I will make one good set. The plastic trim on the back of the seats where the magazine holder is, is cracked/missing, but on the seats that came with my car, is in good shape.

I also got both power seat switches, the white pictures on them are not worn that much and look so much better than the ones in my car.

$20/pair for these things

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo011.jpg

My car had a BMW key laying on the dash that didn't work in any of the locks. The key I had that worked, was only for the ignition and (broken) drivers door. This e28 at the junkyard just happened to have the key tied around the steering column with a cable. I saw this 1.5yrs ago but didn't think much of it. The key worked the ignition and glove box latch... so I cut the cable, took the key, ignition, glove box latch and both front door locks. The trunk lock was destroyed when the trunk was pried open, so except for the trunk lock, my car now has a matching lock set. I am going to see if I can get my trunk lock re-keyed.

It ok though, the trunk locks as part of the central locking system, so locking/unlocking either front door also locks/unlocks the trunk (and gas cap door)

The e28 is different than the e30.... it won't let you lock your keys in the car. If you push the drivers door lock knob down when the door is open, it locks but then unlocks as soon as you let go of the knob. Only when the door is closed and you lock it will it lock and stay locked... pretty neat, I thought it was broke at first because it wouldn't stay locked, then I tried it with the door closed and it worked. I remember now in a "what do you like about your e28" thread, someone said that it prevents you from locking your keys in the car.

At first I thought the steering wheel needs to be removed to change the ignition lock cylinder, but it dosen't It gave me the abaility to deep clean the steering wheel and steering column plastics though. The new old lock cylinder is in and works great. I need to get more keys made up.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo012.jpg

Since I was already this deep in the door, I just decided to replace the whole passenger front door latch mechanism. The return spring on the orignal one broke, it was easy to swap out. Also there is the new passenger door lock.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo013.jpg

and the new drivers door lock.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo014.jpg

Some people were asking about the heated door lock... the actual heating element is a large c-clip that holds the lock to the door... and it is very simple, just a coil that gets 12 volts. There is a microswitch on the door that when the handle is rasied, it closes and when held for 30seconds, the element heats up and melts ice. I started to think of other neat things that could be done with thi simple 12v heating element.... I wonder what the duty cycle on it is (if any)... I see the possibility of a heated cup holder and other neat things.

The door locks were quick and easy to change over.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo015.jpg

All the main parts and linkages in the doors are metal, but plastic gromets are used where the rods hook up. By now, they are all broke or missing... which just gives play in the door locks/handles. I lived with it in the e30... before I realized new plastic gromets are only 10 cents/each. I ordered 10 before realizing just how much I'll need between all 4 doors (and the e30) so I'll order more on the next parts run.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo017.jpg

I also greased all the windows, the front windows work much faster and smoother now, the rear windows are a different design and are still slow. I picked up some dry film lubricant to lube up the actual tracks with, which should really help, especially in the back doors.

The rear right window wasn't really moving, but the motor works. Turned out the part that actually is glued to the window fell off, but everything is there and it works great so I'll pick up some glass glue for just this task and glue it back on.

gdwriter
10-07-10, 01:55 AM
I think Chad was yanking your chain (I just helped him out a little). With all your BMW talk in the Mark V thread, this one was just crying out for some big, soft, cushy American-style luxury. :histeric:

Stingroo
10-07-10, 02:07 AM
Not gonna lie, this thread is making me actually like this car. I'm not crazy about the E30 though, but I don't really like convertibles anyway. Nice scores from the yard. I need to head to mine too... maybe next weekend. :D

Night Wolf
10-07-10, 02:15 AM
BMW used a quirky premium sound system, it is nearly impossible to properly splice into it with an aftermarket headunit and get it to work... much less sound properly, best thing to do is rewire the whole thing. I did it in both e30s I've had and now the e28.

First thing to do was ditch the broken power antenna. The one in the e30 works and I have a spare, but that is for the e30, that car looks much cleaner with the antenna down (I wired it up to a seperate switch) but the e28 got a 14" rubber mast universal antenna, just like the '92 318iC did. Because BMW uses a special connector at the antenna side, a whole new cable was ran. I prefer the look and am glad there is no more hassle from a power antenna or possible leaks from bad gromment anymore.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo028.jpg

Than I removed the back portion of the rear seat to free up area, along with cleaning up in general... and to put the other one in.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo020.jpg

I removed (cut) some of the factory amp wiring until it then was running along other wires, so I left it. I removed the factory amp... decided to see what the fuse looked like.... people never fail to amazing, thats for sure. Yes, that is aluminum foil wrapped around probably the original blown fuse.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo021.jpg

The convertible has excellent front speakers but crappy ones in the back. The sedans and coupes, all series with premium sound, had the excellent speakers front and back. The woofers are well built with a larger magnet and rubber surround, along with seperate tweeters. The speakers are placed on the rear deck and angeled as they are so the sound bounces off the rear window and into the cabin. I am very happy with the sound quality from them.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo022.jpg

The e28 has a rather interesting climate control that is not as straight forward as the e30, though it looks the same control wise. The defrost and foot vents are cable operated, but the dash vents are servo operated. I was watching it kinda do some quirky things and it is a common problem for the 3 phillips screws that hold the servo motor on to loosen up over time. Mine were, which prevents full closing of the vents and also makes it do quirky things. Tightened then up and the servo motor responded to the slightest change on the slider control like it was brand new.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo023.jpg

aftermarket head units have a 12v battery wire and 12v ignition wire. Battery is where it gets it's power from, the ignition is what tells it to turn on. Whoever installed this radio decided to connect both together.... to the cigerette lighter (always powered, even when car is not running) using clear boxing tape wrapped in electrical tape.... we have a winner!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo025.jpg

There is a battery 12 wire used for the original radio, but the e28 is old school German, and they thought it would be wise to have the radio and....brake lights, share the same fuse. I'm not fond of that idea so I ran a new dedicated power wire from the battery to the radio. The original radio also had an ignition switched 12v wire that I spliced in to, so now the radio turns on/off with the car, and works in accessory position.

Once the battery 12v and ignition 12v was wired up, then I wired up a ground (not to a trim screw....) hooked up the antenna and started to run my speaker wires. I just used that was laying around, but it does the job... then I got to listen to musical bliss

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo031.jpg

I know pictures of a stereo rewire in a torn apart car really don't look like much, but there it is!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo027.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo034.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/stereo033.jpg

Stingroo
10-07-10, 02:20 AM
Holy shit, really? Packing tape? Good god. And I thought I saw some weird wiring under the wagon when I looked. Damn, that takes the cake I think. :lol:

Night Wolf
10-07-10, 02:47 AM
Not gonna lie, this thread is making me actually like this car. I'm not crazy about the E30 though, but I don't really like convertibles anyway. Nice scores from the yard. I need to head to mine too... maybe next weekend.

The more I drive the car, even in its current "not really roadworthy" state, the more I like it. It is hard to compare to the e30 in a way, because it is so similar, yet so different. I am really glad I picked an eta 5-series to compliment the 325iC though. They are excellent, but different enough to not make each other redundent.

The e30, as a whole, is smaller and more tuned for "driving" with less emphasis on luxury. This can be seen in many areas, the e28 is a bit more luxury with fancier door panels and an overall more plush/cruiser type interior. The comfort seats with arm rests would be a no-go in the e30, but are perfectly at home in the e28. I have a spare set of tan sport seats that I thought about putting in the e28... but I just don't want to, I want to keep that difference there.... plus the darn things are so comfortable in a plush sort of way, the sport seats are comfortable in a supportive way... overall, the 528e looks like it is going to make an amazing roadtrip car when a convertible is not wanted.

In the e23 7-series, it is even more luxurious with real wood being used on the doors, consol and dash and even a higher plushness overall.... really is neat to see the difference in each series.

Eariler this week once I registered the car, I was then tempted to start driving it.... so I tossed in the nasty torn up orginal drivers seat and am now cruzin in style!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior001.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior004.jpg

Just like the e30, the gauges are not backlit, but instead are lit up from the front. The black sort of absorbs the light while the white reflects it. The e30 cluster is designed differently as the whole face of the gauges have a uniform amount of light, in the e28 due to the deeper design, the upper halves get a bit more light than the bottom, not a big deal though.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior008.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior014.jpg

At the junkyard, I also pulled the cluster from that e28. With so much in these things, it is nice to just have a spare. The needles will get painted red and I am going to try and advance the odometer to ~250k or so, put new odo gears in and maybe dress up the cluster a little then it is going in. $25 and it is great to have a spare... sure came in handy having a spare for the e30.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/parts001.jpg

1 of 2 main parts shipments arrived for the car, early actually. This shipment was around $120, and I got a new rear diff mount, the one on the car is totally shot.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/parts002.jpg

12 door panel clips because some broke when I pulled off the panels (same with e30) and 10 door lock rod groments - which I am going to need a lot more of. Also is a valve steam seal kit for the e30. I decided to not remove the head from the block, and not take the head into a machine shop... but I'll replace the valve steam seals myself on the engine on the stand now.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/parts003.jpg

and.... 4 new CV axle boot kits. Two different brands here, the EMPI are the same kind I used on the e30 and were $7/each the others were $13/each but they only had 2 of the empi left. The difference is that the more expensive ones come with the metal plate covers, which are reuseable. Each boot has 1 cover, but the kits came with 2 covers each for some reason... which means I have 4 new covers anyway, that is pretty cool.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/parts005.jpg

I was using AutohausAZ, which is excellent on prices, but found of company called RM European or something similar... their online catalog was a pain, but some prices were a good bit cheaper... such as the EMPI boot kits, $7 vs $15 from Autohaus (already much cheaper than the rest) and especially that diff mount... Bavauto and Pelican were around $80, Autohaus was $75, RM was $58. Autohaus had the best price on the new drag link though, which is why that (and some other bits) were ordered from them.

Just like every other part I've ordered online from these companies... it is top notch stuff made in Germany or Italy for the most part. I don't even mess around with the junk from common auto parts stores anymore, atleast not for these cars. The quality of the OEM or OEM alternative parts is like nothing else. In the case of the EMPI boots, they take a mold and then make their own, using a better quality rubber than new.

and finally..... this is serious bizniss guyz!!1!!1

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/parts006.jpg

Stingroo
10-07-10, 02:51 AM
:lol: at the last pic. Next time you take a photo of yourself working on the car, if you're not wearing a coverall, beware the police.

Night Wolf
10-07-10, 03:24 AM
Rick, you're making me want to get one of these (preferably a manual trans 535is) as a project car! How's the 528e coming along?

The 535i would be a nice "once size fits all" car, and given the choice, I would take one over a 528e. In the e28 world, in the US, the 528e is looked down upon.... pretty much the same way the 325e is. The whole reason is because it is a car built around performance, from a car company built around performance, which an engine designed for low RPM torque... it sorta goes against the rest of the flow.

The 535i has the torquey 6500RPM M30 which uses a timing chain. They are great engines as well, it predates the M20 but still a very good engine design. The "is" version added limited slip and some other drivetrain goodies along with styling changes.

All e28s sold in the US were pretty much full loaded as they came, so a 528e really is optioned out just like a 535i/is would be, the difference is in the drivetrain.

If I was picking up an e28 as the lone 80s BMW, I would want a 535is (...well, M535i first...mmmm) but I can honestly say that I am very happy with my 528e. The saving grace is that I have the 325iC also, which is all the high RPM sporty fun I want. The whole purpose of the 528e is a comfortably/roomy fixed roof daily driver and highway cruiser. For those needs, the eta engine with its high torque/low RPM characteristics really fits well, and once setup crusing on the highway, mega power is not needed, so on long trips at a steady speed, I'll get to enjoy the increased fuel economy from the eta engine. The M30 is a great engine and similar in many ways to the M20, but I am a bit partial to the M20's now, so it is neat to have the "other" type (eta vs i) in a different car. Fast? No, but it moves well enough for what it is... in fact I'm sure if someone drove it, they wouldn't think it is only 121hp.

I've really gotten used to "enough, but not overwhelming" powered vehicles.... and I really enjoy them a lot, it'll move when I want it to, and it dosen't feel like I am straining it to do any regular task, but it is really nice to be able to use the full powerband and throttle input on a day to day basis while staying within the law.... hard to explain... I just like driving slow cars fast, especially those with the added benefit of getting gas mileage that is quite impressive.

Night Wolf
10-07-10, 03:28 AM
:lol: at the last pic. Next time you take a photo of yourself working on the car, if you're not wearing a coverall, beware the police.

coverall, head protection, and holding a wrench half the size of you....

Stingroo
10-07-10, 09:17 AM
Not so sure where you'll find that last one. Maybe cut one out of cardboard and spray it silver for the lulz.

Night Wolf
10-10-10, 01:20 AM
Yesterday I decided to tackle a few more things. First up was the right rear door window. The part that attaches to the window and then the regulator came off the glass, so I used 30-min epoxy for glass and put it back on. The rear windows are slow due to the worn out glass tracks (used to be felt on rubber, now just rubber) and even spraying them with dry-film lubricant didn't help much. They work but very slow at the bottom, I'll just leave them up or only put them down a little most the time. Maybe someday I'll replace the tracks. The upper portions on the back doors, especially the left side is missing, so there is a gap which causes extra wind noise on the highway.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink001.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink002.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink003.jpg

Then I put the new door lock/rod grommets on all the doors. No more rattling and no more play, all door locks and handles feel tight as a drum now.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink005.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink006.jpg

Then I bent the rear valance back out - mostly. Good enough for now.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink007.jpg

lost 17.34hp when I removed the sweet exhaust tip

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink009.jpg

gas tank is dented... not sure how much less gas it now holds. I can easily re-calibrate the range function on the OBC though.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink008.jpg

Removed the old diff mount

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink010.jpg

There's atleast another 150k left on it!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink011.jpg

put the new one in

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink012.jpg

Then to address the CV axles. Once unbolted, I jacked up on the diff and they came out easily. All boots were torn, one end of one axle was pretty bad, the grease was really thick and not really grease anymore. All were cleaned, regreased and rebooted.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink013.jpg

That explains why they broke!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink014.jpg

They all had that actually, I'm betting they are original. That would be the very first part on any of the 3 BMW's I've had that were a GM part. I know the new boots cross to GM/Ford vehicles as well, but GM as an OES? stranger things have happened.

Night Wolf
10-10-10, 01:34 AM
I used two different boot kit brands. The outters are EMPI, same as I used on the e30. They just came with the boot, grease and hardware but were only $7 each. The others are a fancier brand that also included the 2 end caps but were $14 each, they only had two EMPI's left in stock... though the others are probably worth it for less hassle trying to save and reuse the old caps.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink018.jpg

Then a new intake boot.... mmmm masking tape for sealing engine vacuum leaks when a new $5 boot is just out of reach.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink019.jpg

new air filter, old one was jam packed full of crap in between the pleats, it wa a purolator which is from Advance, new one is MANN, OEM.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink020.jpg

I remember reading something about this "horn" smoothing intake air flow to be less turbulent, one would think it would be a restriction though, ah well it stays. The big sensor on the upper part of the air box is the Air Flow Meter... barn door style, not as good of a design compared to a MAP sensor, but ah well - it works.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink022.jpg

Then to address the mess of the fuse box. This is old school German style here... Advance had one package of misc sizes of this type ... 5 for $4 but online they are only like 20 cents each. As noted on the cover, white - 8 amp, red = 16amp and blue = 25 amp..... we can clearly see whatever was avalible was used, or just left out... Suure why not put a fuse rated for 4+ times the circuit capacity? melting fuse boxes are normal these days (the '92 318iC was a product of prior idiot owners too)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink023.jpg

So I removed all the fuses, they'll be spares. I then got a steel wire brush and cleaned all the terminals. All the electrical "problems" - intermittent passenger side low/high beams, no interior lights and tail lights were all products of corroded fuse terminals. Then all brand new fuses of proper capacity were put in.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink025.jpg

The big goal, replacement of the draglink.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink027.jpg

hard to see, but there was nothing left to this ball joint, it was just loosely flopping around, causing all sorts of cool sounds and handling tweaks.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink028.jpg

BAM!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/draglink031.jpg

Jesda
10-10-10, 02:03 AM
I had a Purolator air filter on my Q45 and replaced it with OEM when I saw that dirt was getting around the poorly formed rubber seal (the Q's filter looks almost identical to the one on your 528). I haven't heard of any issues with Purolators -- maybe mine was just defective. I certainly trust their oil filters.

Night Wolf
10-10-10, 02:21 AM
I've used all sorts of products from them in nearly all my vehicles without any problem. There is a Purolator oil filter on the e28 right now. I have been happy with them as an all-around brand... though if I need things like filters I'll just tack it onto a parts order I already have. In the case of the air filter, Advance wanted like $15 (IIRC) for a Purolator and the MANN (oem) was less than $7.

Auto parts stores don't really carry parts for these cars, a few things here and there... like a new oxygen sensor I installed today, its old school 1-wire so it was universal, Bosch brand (OEM actually) and only $18... and I did install Wearever Silvers today (they didn't have mid grade pads, only the cheap Silvers or high end ceramic, which I didn't want) which were $19... but actual hard parts? I will not use. The BMW dealer has an insane markup on this stuff.... but there are 4 different companies I shop online, all OEM/OES, excellent prices and free shipping... makes owning these cars cheap.

Night Wolf
10-10-10, 02:58 AM
Saturday was a day of progress. Not pictured is the new O2 sensor install, but that marks the last of the "regular" tune-up items for the engine, well still can do spark plug wires, then replacement of various vacuum lines etc... but more or less, the engine is fully tuned up now.

With the car as neglected as it was, I could bet how yummy the brake fluid looked. The clutch and brake share a reservoir. First up was to siphon the nasty crap out of the reservior... I didn't get a picture of that, but then next up was to flush the clutch system. by its design, it is self-bleeding, but the clutch pedal felt horrible. It was like steping on a wet sponge that sometimes did not return on its own. I flushed until clear fluid came through, then flushed more. The pedal now has a firm and linear feel to it, much more positive. This is the gooness that came from it, can clearly see the seperation of what was once brake fluid and something that is not brake fluid (water)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed001.jpg

Using the trusty one-man brake bleeder... and more pretty fluid

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed003.jpg

So the plan was to do this systematically. Jack the car up one corner at a time, bleed the caliper, inspect things overall and put the new wheels/tires on. Just for reference lets see what was on the car...

Starting at the left front is an original 14" wheel with a "Phaser R23 Wynstar" size 195/70/14. When removed, this tire clearly had something inside it that sound like marbles... I think I read something about some sort of alternative balancing thing? I dunno.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed004.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed005.jpg

The rear left tire is a Goodyear Viva 2 size 185/65/14. This is now the spare.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed006.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed007.jpg

The rear right was the oddball 390mm (15.35") TRX wheel with a 220/55/VR390 with a Michelin racing slick (bonus grip via cords)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed008.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed009.jpg

Front right tire is back to a 14" wheel with a Kelly "steel belted metric radial" so you know its top notch. This bad boy is a "175R14" size.... and bonus was that there was belt seperation at opposite ends of the tire... an inner bulge on the tread on one side and 180* was an outter bulge.... atleast the vibrations were in sync.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed010.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed011.jpg

Yes, the car had 2 different wheel sizes on it and 4 different brand/size tires consisting of varrying dregrees of worn

Night Wolf
10-10-10, 03:28 AM
e28 differs from e30 in that it has coilovers on all 4 wheels... pretty neat actually.

The shocks look new... as in not 25 years old. They say BMW BOGE (OEM) so I am thinking they have been replaced. The front end had a lot of components that have a 2001 date code on it, I'm thinking that before the redneck ownership, the car was actually owned by someone that cared about it... or just had money and took it to the dealer, it was (once) maintained... the same can't be said for my e30, which at 140k, all the steering/suspension stuff was trashed, and original.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed012.jpg

Various bushings looked old/worn, but not trashed/missing/beyond life. The car feels solid and without play. Someday when the e30 is all done I'll do a suspension overhaul on this car, but until then - it is fine as-is.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed015.jpg

small collection of new parts

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed016.jpg

What came from those brake lines was so nasty.... it looked like liquid rust.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed019.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed020.jpg

in action

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed021.jpg

This car uses hub centric wheels. I was told the wheels came off a '99 528i, but they looked a bit older than that. Without test fitting them on my car, I bought hub centric adapter rings... only $10 shipped for the set, but it turns out I didn't need them as they fit my hubs.... so they couldn't have fit e39 hubs.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed023.jpg

Blingin'! The tires are 215/65/15, and are too big for the car, when it is time for new tires it'll get 205/60/15, but for now they are far better than what was on there (and match!)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed024.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed025.jpg

Other side.... rear brakes have plenty of pad left, but the rotors look like records. I may see about getting them turned at some point.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed027.jpg

and the front, e28 is odd in that the calipers are mounted on the front side of the hub. The pads were horribly low on this side, but ok on the other.... either way I just figured to throw new pads on, $19 for Wearever silvers. Plus I was getting a squeeling from the front brakes when applied... now it is gone. I was going to get the rotors turned, but the shop was closed by the time I arrived. There is a pulsation thru the chassis under hard braking, hopefully turning the rotors solves that, if not I'll just deal with it.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed030.jpg

damage where somebody hit something

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed031.jpg

Jeep's bottle jack comes in quite handy. Not the safest (floor jack on the other side) but I was not under the car.... both sets of jackstands are (still) occupied by the e30.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed033.jpg

Night Wolf
10-10-10, 03:29 AM
So I then drove around... started off as just a ride in town to wear in the new brakes and get a feel for the car with actual tires.... but I had so much fun before I knew it I filled up with gas and then drove around for a few hours on the interstate, through town and down/back my favorite driving road.

I stopped to snag some pictures. I had the flash off, so camera was on longer shutter speed and I didn't hold it still enough. Car still hasn't been washed yet, let alone any sort of cleaning up the paint... still just from the prior pressure washing.

Should have turned the lights off, ah well. I'll replace the burnt out side marker lights sometime

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed036.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed037.jpg

The tail light bulbs that were in the car were really dim, so I swapped them out with the tail light bulbs from the e30 (that car will be getting all new bulbs anyway) which are much brighter, almost like brake lights (they are seperate on this car) but that is ok, I'd rather have too-bright tail lights then really dim, hopefully people can see the car.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed040.jpg

The car sits with the back end kinda high... plus the fat tires... gives the old eta a "performance" look...

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed041.jpg

And, the best quality pictures for last. The car almost looks sorta good in these. With equally sized wheels/tires all the way around, it is apparent the car has a rake to it - I like it, I think it looks great, just needs to be lower, which the smaller future tires will do.

I think this is an excellent looking car, very unique. I really like the overall design so much, it's hard to pin point favorites, just the overall flow and proportions are there. From the leaning forward, bowing out grille/front end, signature body line, flowing wheel arches to the Hofmeister kink. I like it, a lot.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed035.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed039.jpg

Review to follow with various videos, but for now it is time to go to sleep.

Playdrv4me
10-10-10, 04:24 AM
What a pleasant little car. If those wheels didn't come off an E39, but are too new to have come off an 28... I can only surmise they are E34. They look so small in some shots that they almost look like the BBS wheels that were an option on the E30 (and maybe those and the E34 ones are the same? I don't know).

Night Wolf
10-10-10, 09:25 AM
They are BBS basketweaves, just like the original 14" that were on the car. They are similar to the 14" BBS Basketweaves on the e30, but not the same - e30 is 4-lug hubs, the e28 has 5-lugs. There is too much sidewall which makes them look smaller too.

Doing a search shows these off an '89 535i.... look like the same things (centercap not aligned)... so they are from an e34. Cool, they still look very period-correct for the e28 yet spiff it up a bit.

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/6350/31010616404uk.jpg

http://img63.imageshack.us/img63/5073/31010616416vw.jpg

Same tire size as mine too

http://img124.imageshack.us/img124/2936/31010616427ky.jpg

Night Wolf
10-10-10, 11:00 AM
So here is a mini-review of the car... maybe not in length/detail, but I can't comment on the entire car yet - there is no interior, so there is more various sounds inside due to no insulation/carpet or door panels/sound dampening. No climate control either as everything is unplugged, so this will be mostly related to the mechanics of the car. I drove it around for a few hours last night crusing on the interstate, through town and along some favorite driving roads.

I'm going to first say that I REALLY LIKE this car, the whole time I'm driving the thing, I had a huge grin on my face. To sum it up this thing performs, and I don't mean in any particular category, just overall, the entire car performs very strongly.

I haven't done anything exotic to this old, high-mile car. It was badly neglected, and I simply replaced what was broke and did a bunch of preventative maintenace on it, this is how a maintained car should perform. There are still things to do on it, even drivetrain wise, but for the most part, it is done. The biggest thing left is to replace the transmisson mounts as they are broke and the trans sometimes clunks around... and also rebuild the whole shifter linkage as it feels like moving a spoon around in a bowl of jell-o. I was going to leave the shifter stock, but I was having so much fun rowing through the gears, I think I'll toss in the Z3 1.9 shifter that I bought for te e30 in this car... and buy another for the e30. It is also getting the delrin shift carrier bushings, everything else will be stock replacement.

Driving this thing, with the exception of the trashed shifter linkage, dosen't show it's age/miles. It feels like most sub 100k cars.... overall performing well with a couple quirks here and there. The car needs an alignment, but it isn't off enough to be burning up the new old tires at a fast rate.

A bit about the 528e - this is the "fuel economy" version, it is a high torque, low RPM engine built more for extended crusing then canyon carving, and it shows in the way the engine behaves. This car has 2.93 gears, many say that a diff swap with 3.25 and a chip really wakes up the old eta. I may do the chip in the future but I don't think I'll change the gearing, this car is for crusing and roadtrips so the higher gearing will help MPG. Another thing about the 528e is that it is said to have slightly better steering and handling than a 535i due to the smaller, lighter engine, with the weight more rearward of the front tires. This same principle applies to the e30, with the 4cyl cars feeling better balanced than the 6cyl (that chassis was first made for a 4cyl). People that have driving both types of e28's have said that the 528e has a steering/handling feel in between an e30 325i and an e28 535i.

Engine: This is interesting. BMW took the SOHC M20, brought the displacement up to 2.7L and tuned the head, intake and exhaust for low RPM torque then used a crank and pistons to work with that setup. The same eta engine was used in the e30 325e and e28 528e, and that was it. BMW has yet to use, or designate an eta. The eta has gotten a bad rep from most, then there are a select few eta owners of both forms that really enjoy them. I'll say that it is just like enjoying an M42 318i - you need to learn how the engine performs, what its strong points are, and work with that. In the case of the M42, there is no low-end torque, rev the heck outta it and keep the RPM up and you'll be grinning ear to ear. The eta, is the exact opposite.

BMW successfully made a high torque, low RPM engine with this little marvel. It behaves so differently then the "i" version, which while is fine for crusing around quietly, but really becomes a different animal above 3500RPM, all the way to 6500RPM redline. The eta will perform through the whole RPM range though that range is limited to 5100RPM. It does not enjoy sitting at/around redline as the "i" and especially M42 do. What this engine accels at, is low-mid range torque. That means that from 1500RPM it'll pull "strongly" Crusing, and even spirited driving the engine really enjoys staying between 2000-3000RPM. It is odd at first to be taking the twisties and keeping the engine in midrange RPM, not high... but that is how the eta works, and most likely due to much of the bad rep. If you continously wind it out and drive it at high RPM, you'll be overall disapointed. Taking into account the torque curve, and that the whole engine/gearing is made for crusing, not acceleration - and expecting it to perform as such, will bring rather pleasent results.

The enigne has a signature silky-smoothness to it, and to compare its overall behavior to another engine, I would say it closely compares to the pushrod AMC 4.0 I6. The engines both have the same RPM range and have a similar torque feel at a given RPM. The AMC 4.0 has more of a brute force trucky feel while the eta M20 is more refined. Interesting, at highway speeds (60+) the eta will comfortably cruise at 2000RPM and pull, the 4.0 prefers 2500-3200RPM cruise and feels lugged at 2000 (highway, not town) no doubt due to the aerodynamics of the Jeep that haven't changed in 60yrs and tall off-road tires/gearing.

In short, keep the RPM between 1500-3500 and both the driver, and engine will remain happy.

This is a typical flat and straight steady cruise in OD 5th:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed043.jpg

Transmission: I'm going to leave this short, as I can't fully review it due to non-existant various bushings in the shifter. I will say that it shifts so smoothly with nearly no feel of any synchro wear. Downshifts without double clutching are effortless. This transmission feels far better then the 85k Mercedes-sourced 6spd in the Jeep ever has.

Steering: This car does not have rack and pinion, instead it uses an old school steering box - just like a dunp truck or my Jeep. The rack design in the e30 does offer a bit better feel, but any thinking that an old school recirculating ball setup can't perform - this car will change that thinking - it sure did for me. Steering is spot on, there is no play. Not used to a vehicle with sharp steering, I kept over correcting for simple turns in the road. Crusing with your left arm resting atop the door sill with left hand on the wheel, a full-range twitch of the wrist (without moving arm) will change the direction of the car considerably. Took some getting used to at first, but the steering is so sharp that the car feels like an extension of your arm. It isn't overly bearing that it makes interstate crusing difficult, but if there was something unexpected in the road, as quick as you can twitch your wrist, the car avoids the obstical, and has the suspension to back it up.

Brakes:If it is one thing many BMW's get right from the factory (other than steering) it is brakes. Most BMW's have very adequate brakes for their given category, and the 528e is no exception. The rotors feel like they need to be turned as under hard braking there is a pulsation felt through the chassis. The inital bite is excellent, the brake pedal is firm and responsive. It insipires confidence known that when you need to, you can hit the brakes and the car will stop, very well. After driving the 528e a while and getting back in the Jeep, it really became apparent just how horrible those (maintained) brakes are. Stock TJ brakes are already bad enough, then with the larger tires they are downright horrible in comparison. The car has 4-wheel disc w/ ABS. Parking brake consist of a drum setup inside the rear rotors (which bites really well).

Ride: This car is approaching 25yrs old (build date 6/86) with ~250k miles. Some parts of been replaced over the years, front end and shocks look/feel replaced, other things like actual rear suspension bushings look original. With that said, this car has one heck of a ride (and handling...). To best compare it, I would say it rides almost exactly like my '96 Lincoln Town Car Signature Series with the Ride Control Package rode. It dosen't float and it isn't stiff - it is smooth. Normal roads, be it town or interstate the car has a "gliding" feel, but hit a big bump/dip and the car dosen't wallow around uncontrollably - it sticks to the road following the contours in a non-harsh manner. Bug bumps and dips consist of a single bounce of the car on its suspension and that is it. Between the ride and the comfort seats with arm rest, this car made the miles melt away on the interstate. I can already tell this will be an awesome highay cruiser that will melt the miles away. Crusing on the interstate and state highways averaging around 60mph was averaging 33mpg, I imagine with steady cruise-engaged highway crusing that figure will increase. A roomyish, comfortable, loaded up cruiser that gets 33+mpg? Sweet.

Handling: Leave the best for last, right? The handling of this car is downright surprising. In fact I have yet to drive any other car that, under normal driving - has such an excellent, overall smooth ride.... but handles this well. It is first noticeable on the road if you need to make an evasive action, or on a state highway happen to be taking a turn too fast. Normally when you may clentch up and expect to wrestle with the vehicle to make the turn, this car hugs the road like it was on rails. Pushing the car through the twisties further brings out the amazing handling - the fast you go, the harder you push the car, the more willing it is to turn. I didn't push it to the limits... mostly due to the fact that the whole interior is apart and I was already having stuff fall off the dash from acceleration and sliding around from turns. This car feels like it is ready to take on any twisties you can toss it at. Body roll is minimal, steering/handling feel is neutral at tight turns and high speed. To really experience, and enjoy the way this thing handles... especially compared to the overall ride quality when crusing, one must drive the car.

To sum it up - this thing performs, and performs well - across the board. Age, miles, purchase price and cosmetic condition would make one believe otherwise. Looking at this car from the outside it looks like a "worn out old car" but under the mismatched hood and fadded paint, this car performs strong. It is quite surprising at first, but I kind of like it - the car looks old and worn to the public, but behind the wheel it can, and will more than hold its own.

Honestly, while not being able to give a full comparison due to no interior/climate control etc... Driving this car really made me think, so many cars try to copy what a 5-series BMW is all about. A car I had extensive time with recently that attempts that is my fathers '99 Pontiac Grand Prix GTP. A mid-size car with a strong sporting character. While driving this car, and thinking about the GTP... I just couldn't help but think - with the exception of acceleration, everything the GTP can do, this old e28 did better. Handling was the GTP's strong point, but the e28 far exceeds that, both in feel and capability. I can't compare the ride/seats between the two, because my lifted Jeep has a smoother ride and more comfortable seats for interstate driving. Obviously the GTP has an insane amount of power and acceleration in comparison, and if that is your thing, then the 528e would feel very lacking. To me though, while it was fun to accelerate fast, it also got old fast. Not being up to actually use the power, WOT runs limited to only a few seconds before passing all legal speeds really took the "fun" out of actually "driving" but to really finish it off, it was just boring with an automatic. In comparison, the low-powered eta with an excellent 5spd manual is so much more fun and involving to drive. Unlike the GTP where you were going slower than you thought, the 528e felt like you were going faster then you really were - maybe due to extra noise from no interior, but driving the car through my favortie 55-mph driving road and getting on it at times, I would see an on-coming car and slow up thinking it may be a cop, I would think to myself I was probably pushing 85+, but looking down at the speedo I was doing 65. To me, that is great as I was having a blast driving the car, taking the turns and rowing through the gears all at a lower speed.... but when the speedo did reach 85+, the car held its own and handled quite amazingly.

Did I mention it gets 33+mpg on regular gas and cost only $10/month to insure?!?

drewsdeville
10-10-10, 11:29 AM
The difference in pad wear is interesting. You sure you don't have a sticking caliper or collapsed brake hose? That would also explain the poor rotor condition...

Stingroo
10-10-10, 11:31 AM
Whoa Rick. I thought you said not in length/detail. I think that's longer than any essay I've written in the past six years. :lol:

I'll read it after breakfast. I'm genuinely intrigued by this car. Comments to follow.

Night Wolf
10-10-10, 11:31 AM
Some videos... I was trying not to push the car too hard, but the more I drove it the more I wanted to see what it could do. Accelerating quickly would empty more stuff from the dash to the floor (things were in order before...) turning too sharply would cause stuff on the dash to slide off the sides and stuff in the car to relocate and stopping quickly sent everything forward. The one part of the car I was easy on was the transmission and shifter, the mounts are broke and the linkage is shot, so there was no sense in working those components more than they already were.

First up are some acceleration videos.... all 121hp/170tq of ~25y/o, ~250k eta glory. The 2.93 gears keeps things mellow.

1st and 2nd feel very strong. By 3rd, the weight/drag along with the gearing and behavior of the eta slows things down. This car isn't for heavy acceleration, it is for daily driving and cruising, and for that it does just fine - but nice to known that it can move when asked to. Slow, yes, compared to most other non 4-cyl BMW's of the era... and most any new car, but it dosen't "feel" slow, perhaps do to the manual, and I have driven/owned some really slow vehicles.... vehicles that felt they literally could not get out of their own way - this car feels nothing like that. If you want it to move, it'll move. You may have to work for it with the shift, clutch and throttle pedals but it'll do it.

Normally I would take this turn in 2nd, but I went down to 1st for the video, I didn't run wide open until 4k RPM. I was doing my best to hold the camera, steer, shift and use the blinkers/highbeams as I could.

_aoE83IZi9M

From a stop, though due to the trans mounts I didn't want to launch it too hard.

Tht2Y7cgDkE

WOT around 3k RPM, then fun-road driving. On this road, I found that keeping it in 4th was enjoyable, downshifting to 3rd around some of the sharper turns or when accelerating up hills.

tImJYrqKtWM

Then I turned the radio on (it is laying near the passenger floor) and such awesomeness was playing, which brought out some spirited driving in me, which was transferred to the car...

2JcYWsb03xg

THIS IZ MY JAM!!11!!1

48VHI3Hgebs

If I were green, I would die...

Z8HJ7MKlzp8

xxD7r7Tkpto

To really sum up this car - a wolf in sheeps clothing. Atleast in 528e form, not in brute power or acceleration, but overall - the car looks old and worn out, but performs amazingly. If more power is wanted, the 535i had 190hp with 6500RPM redline and really turned the car into a quick-feeling machine.... I could just imagine what an e28 M5 was like... with over twice the power of the eta - 286hp and a further tuned/upgraded suspension... that car really must have been quite a raw animal.

With that said, I am more than happy with the 528e. It is fun to open up, especially in the turns, but for my main intentions with the car - daily driving and highway crusing, the eta engine fits the bill really well. I'll have the 325iC for when I want high RPM/fast fun and the Jeep for when I feel like getting 14mpg.

All that spirited driving really bit into my Honda-like MPG, as shown once I got back home...

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/brakebleed053.jpg

Night Wolf
10-10-10, 11:41 AM
The difference in pad wear is interesting. You sure you don't have a sticking caliper or collapsed brake hose? That would also explain the poor rotor condition...

The drivers side pads looked to be around 70%, the passenger side, around 15%. At this age/miles I wouldn't even put it past someone to replace only one side of pads from a junkyard or something.

I thought about calipers sticking, but the car stops evenly without pull to any side. When I flushed/bled the brakes only the rear right and front left brakes bled properly, the rear left and front right were giving a hard time.

Basically with the one man bleeder hooked up and the bleed screw opened slightly, on the two good corners, I would slowly but firmly press the brake to the floor, hold a few seconds, release and do it again. I would get 9 pumps until the bleeder bottle was full, so I would empty it, top off the MC and repeat.

On the two bad corners, I would get one firm push, then release and then there was no resistance, pedal would go to the floor... I had to wait just about 8-seconds, then push the pedal again and it worked. I could do this 20 times, waiting in between pedal pushes and the bottle would only be 1/2 full of fluid, where on the other corners, 9 pumps filled it up. I spent hours messing with it, even removing bleeder screws from the removed e30 calipers and swapping them - same thing. Finally I flushed what I could, bled the system and closed it up.

Also atleast when I was flushing the right rear (the first) sometimes the pedal would stop part way down, like it was being blocked, I'd push harder (sometimes really hard) and then it would feel like whatever was blocked would clear and the pedal would go all the way down.

Then again, maybe I do have a blockage or something... at times the car felt like it would want to pull slightly to the right, when it was otherwise driving fine before then.

After seeing how nasty the fluid was that came out... along with small chunks of dirt/rust/whatever, I wouldn't doubt a blockage or something. I figure I'll drive it around a bit and try to flush again.

drewsdeville
10-10-10, 11:54 AM
Also atleast when I was flushing the right rear (the first) sometimes the pedal would stop part way down, like it was being blocked, I'd push harder (sometimes really hard) and then it would feel like whatever was blocked would clear and the pedal would go all the way down.


This can happen if you are pumping too fast/too frequently and the master cylinder isn't recovering from the previous pumps (remember, the bleeder screws are open).

Night Wolf
10-10-10, 11:59 AM
This can happen if you are pumping too fast/too frequently and the master cylinder isn't recovering from the previous pumps (remember, the bleeder screws are open).

I was pumping at the same, slow, even rate that I did the other two wheels.... and other vehicles I have done.

I think, for whatever reason, when the pedal was released, instead of fluid being drawn from the MC, it was being pulled back in via the attached hose on the bleeder screw, on the left rear corner, I could see the bottle as I was pushing the pedal, and the level would increase, then decrease. I want to try it again with a 2nd person so that I could push the pedal, have them open the bleeder, close it then release. If there is a blockage, maybe I can get it cleared.

Jesda
10-10-10, 03:17 PM
I've never had good luck with one-man bleeders.

drewsdeville
10-10-10, 11:22 PM
Actually had time to read this whole thing instead of just the brake section of the update. As, usual, excellent descriptive posts. You could probably become a legend over on the BMW boards by turning these into full how-to's. You've documented quite a bit with the camera.

Being an annoying nit-picker, the suspension pictures makes it appear like this car uses struts rather than shocks as described. The terms are commonly used interchangeably, though the function for each is actually slightly different. A strut serves as a structural member for the suspension as well as a dampener where a shock is simply a dampener...notice the lack of upper control arms/ball joints - the strut and upper strut mount replace them.

Really not useful information unless you end up on Jeopardy or routinely participate in some sort of car trivia event. Just a friendly FYI :thumbsup:

Night Wolf
10-11-10, 12:04 AM
Being an annoying nit-picker, the suspension pictures makes it appear like this car uses struts rather than shocks as described. The terms are commonly used interchangeably, though the function for each is actually slightly different. A strut serves as a structural member for the suspension as well as a dampener where a shock is simply a dampener...notice the lack of upper control arms/ball joints - the strut and upper strut mount replace them.

Really not useful information unless you end up on Jeopardy or routinely participate in some sort of car trivia event. Just a friendly FYI :thumbsup:

You are absolutely correct, and normally I too am a nit-picker at confusing the terms.

Without thinking into it, I was using terminology from the e30. That car has Macpherson struts in the front, with replaceable inner cartridges (I think the e28 is the same way) but actual shocks in the rear. The e28 has coil overs, and struts on all four corners.

For simplicity's sake if I am describing the ride of, say the e30 which uses both - normally I would just say "the shocks are worn" instead of "the shocks and struts are worn", but in the case of the e28, it does use struts front and back.

I have not yet posted the story of the e28 on the e28 site, or e30 sites (cars are closely related and others have done similar) I think I'm going to wait until most of the "baselining" is done, then rebuild a BMW-specific thread from start to finish and post it.

Now that I have the e28 running well, and Summer is over, the push for the e30 to get done has ended. I want to complete the engine/clutch/transmission and get them back in the car so I can return the borrowed hoist and engine stand, but after that I think I'll take it easy and allow funds to rebuild... that car will be getting almost $1k in shocks/springs alone. Because it is on a slower pace, and also since the e28 will be taking over much of the e30's duty (daily driving), that will leave that car as more of a "when I want to drive it" (very often) vs "I need to go to work" vehicle, so I think it'll work out great.

Thanks though! I like to document my stuff. A lot of this is learning as I go.... though to be honest, I don't think I would attempt nearly half the stuff I do if it wasn't for excellent vehicle-specific forums and the search function. I pretty much have the tools I need, though sometimes something still comes up and I'll need something new, but for the most part a few years of doing this on my own has built up my tool supply. The more I learn on one vehicle just gets rolled over into the next and I come up with alternatives and ways around things based on my prior experiences.

Example: Today I replaced the engine mounts, transmission mounts and rebuilt the entire shifter linkage/assembly. The mounts were easy enough, but the whole process of the shifter linkage took over 6 hours from start to finish. I was already familer with the setup and design, as I studied it and already been there on the e30, when the engine/trans was still in the car. With a big exception - car is (much) higher on jack stands and the rest of the drivetrain was gone - no exhaust, heat sheilds, driveshaft and guibo in the way. It was tight enough to work, but with all that in place it was even worse. I was determined to get it all done with the rest of the car in place, because I'm sure I'll be doing this task on some vehicle in the future and I wanted to know that I could do it. Most of the time was finding ways around things and how to manipulate the tools etc... If I was to do it again tomorrow, I am confident I could do it in half the time. All I had was the pair of ramps on the front wheels, rear wheels on the ground so by the time I got to the transmission, it was tight. I was on the creeper which took up space, but it was still doable.... my belly was touching the oil pan/draglink etc...

I've been working on an airforce base for over 2yrs now and I've heard about the auto hobby shop, but never went there. Last week I helped a co-worker change his brake pads at the place.... and dang, they have lifts (both chassis and drive on kind) tire balancer, alignment rack (I think it was broke) air, tools, computer based tech data and all that good stuff... it's only like $3/hr too. I was going to bring the car there so I could put it on a lift today, but when I got there, they were closed for the holiday (tomorrow) ah well.... I've managed this far using a small floor jack and ramps.

Night Wolf
10-11-10, 12:09 AM
I've never had good luck with one-man bleeders.

I am going to get a pressure bleeder, it is about $50. The more I think of it, I think the right front brake may be dragging... the car pulls to the right, sometimes more than others...and sometimes has a vibration that if I keep throttle applied but also apply brakes, the same vibration increases.

I've never had this happen before... I was thinking I could remove the brake line from the caliper and flush it out, then try to back flush the caliper... I think something is blocking the lines, which is why it wouldn't bleed well... didn't seem to be taking fluid from the MC.

Seeing how nasty that brake fluid was... the caliper may need to be worked on... last resort would be to take it apart, inspect the piston and if no damage/rust, rebuild them.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
10-11-10, 12:38 AM
It's amazing to see the progress that's been made so far. Has it even been a month yet?

Night Wolf
10-11-10, 01:21 AM
It's amazing to see the progress that's been made so far. Has it even been a month yet?

Thanks! 3 weeks to the day actually.... Poor Noelle has been put on hold..... it's nice ot have a 2nd driving vehicle though.... then the Jeep will be getting some needed repairs that may put it down for more than a day... stuff I couldn't easily do when it was my only vehicle (drop gas tank/skid to trace small evap leak, remove oil pan to hammer out dents from rocks and replace rear main seal since I'm in there.. not leaking though)

Today's work started with addressing the entire shifter linkage... I decied to go to the auto hobby shop on base and take advantage of the lifts there... turns out they were closed for the holiday (same reason I don't work tomorrow) so I drove around for an hour...

Set the cruise on the interstate, straight and level:

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter002.jpg

There are still a few mechanical odds and ends left... car has no heat, which can be a few things, but I didn't do any troubleshooting with it yet. In the recent shipment of parts arrived, I have a new timing belt, tensionser, guide pin and spring. From what I could see of the belt so far - it dosen't appear like it's ready to fail, but I am going to change it anyway. To save on money I was going to leave the water pump/t-state/hoses... but I decided to just do it all, so I'll be ordering the other stuff, so the timing belt is on hold till then.

Other than that, and a few little odds and ends, the car is mostly mechanically completed... so I can finally get the interior back together. before the carpet goes in, I am going to hit the light surface rust spots with a wire wheel on the drill and hit them with some sorta-kindaish matching rattlecan paint (does the color really matter?)

So first up was the carpet itself, now that it got to dry for about a week longer than planned... After it dried it didn't look nearly as nasty as before...

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter035.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter036.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter037.jpg

But, after being so impressed with the e30 carpet, I decided to paint it using Duplicolor vinyl and fabric paint... it was quick, easy and cheap enough.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter038.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter039.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter040.jpg

I then supported the transmission with the floor jack and removed the cross member... ah what a familer site.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter041.jpg

Yey for e30 part interchages... that transmission won't be needing the new mounts for a while. The rear output seal and selector shaft seal are leaking, which speeds up the mounts getting trashed process. They can remain leaking for now, once the e30 is done, this car will get some more in-depth maintenace.

Check out how swelled up the one mount got

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter042.jpg

I then lowered/removed the floor jack which gave me a couple extra critical inches of clearance to work.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter043.jpg

then the shift carrier and linkage assembly up top

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter044.jpg

It is already tight enough, the guibo and driveshaft in the way dosen't make anything easier...

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter045.jpg

Night Wolf
10-11-10, 02:18 AM
Shifters can really make or break a manual transmission, and the whole driving experience. If there is one thing BMW really screwed up on these car, it is the entire shifter linkage assembly. It is a poorly executed design with about two dozen wear points and rubber parts that do not last.

Here is a parts break down of the assembly:

http://realoem.com/bmw/diagrams/l/t/2.png

Possible (already are) wear points include 2, 6, 7, 8, 11, 13, 14, 15, 19. In both cases of my e30 and e28 with original stuff, 11, 14, 15, 19 are simply gone and the rest is very worn. 19 is a small dense foamish pad that goes in the T, it provides most of the centering force for the shifter (aided by the rubber insulation boot). 14 are literally rubber o-rings that fit between 10 and 13, when new it is tight, but old, they are gone, and the fit betwen 10 and 13 is already loose (o-rings dampen it) that it now literally has play in it, which actually wears out the inside of the T. The shifter ball sits in the plastic cup 6, which wears out... and the whole carrier itself attaches to the transmission in the front via rubber bushing 2, which wears out (causing the entire carrier to have front-back slop) and attaches to the car body via 8, which also has a rubber bushing, that wears out. Then there is the actual wear on the shifter ball and plastic bushing built into the shifter... all in all, it is a good "design" that is executed poorly.

Here is a picture of how the whole thing looks setup:

http://www.modbargains.com/images/Products/UUC_Motorwerks/UUC%20DSSR%20Lower%20Pivots_1.jpg

UUC Motorwerks has made vast improvements to this design. The carrier bushing 2 can be upgraded to solid delrin for cheap, which eliminates front-back play of the carrier. They completely and totally redesigned a whole entire shifter for a hefty sum of ~$500, that may be one of the things I end up getting for the e30.... but they redesigned to stupid "u" type single shear rod which exerts sideways force on the components.... resonable at $130, even if I stick with stock BMW (Z3 1.9) shifter, I will still get the Double Shear Selector Rod.

http://www.modbargains.com/images/Products/UUC_Motorwerks/UUC%20DSSR%20vs%20OEM_1.jpg

But, for the e28, it just got a rebuilt stock linkage, I already had all the parts on hand as I rebuilt the e30 linkage before I found out about the UUC DSSR.

Now that there is an understanding how this over-engineered, poorly applied design works... here is the real stuff:

The top left shifter is stock. I decided to install the new Z3 1.9 shifter I bought over a year ago... in the e30 world this is considered to be the best all around performing short shifter.

First thing I noticed was the stock shifter has a steeper bend to it (stock e30 shifter is not like that) That put the actual shifter further back towards the driver more. I was unsure if that would cause a problem, but I am already used to it, the shorter shifts help the difference.

Also, on short shifters, many misunderstand them and think the shift knob itself is lower, in few cases, yes, but normally it is not. The shifter is a level, the ball is the pivot point... the longer the distance from the pivot to where the selector rod meets, the longer distance the rod travels for a given amount of throw - that is where the short shifter comes into paly.

You can see the old T, with no foamy spacer inside... the rubber o-rings are long gone that it actually wore into the T itself, as evidenced by the oblong hole. The other side is wore out 180* from this side.

On the bottom is the rebuilt selector rod with new T, new foam spacer thingy inside the T where it hooks to the transmission. On each side of the T is a rubber O-ring then a yellow plastic washer.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter046.jpg

Here is the UUC Delrin shift carrier bushings (white) installed in the carrier - these are a very hard material and should never, ever need replacing again.

On the bottom is the new Z3 1.9 shifter, compared to stock it is easy to see the increase in leverage applied at the selector rod = shorter throw (from ball pivot point to center of lower mounting bushing). Also is a new rubber insulation boot that also helps provide some centering action to the shifter. The old one was torn and as I removed it, it just fell apart in pieces. On the shifter ball is a new plastic cup that the ball rides in, greased up.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter047.jpg

and last.... a new aft carrier-body mount... Every wear part has been replaced on this shifter/linkage assembly.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter048.jpg

I didn't get any other pictures as I was having a heck of a time with a few parts and my hands were filthy, I didn't want to get the camera more dirty.

Durring my inital looking over the car, I noticed the passenger side motor mount was worn, so without question, I ordered two new ones... best to replace these things in pairs and they are cheap enough ($18/ea)

Drivers side was actually in very good shape, it was original and went in the trash though.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter049.jpg

Passenger side was shot. This is the compression side and it felt like I could rip it apart with my hands, this is the kind of stuff that should be replaced before it totally fails (like in the case of the e30), simple stuff like this prevents these long drawn out projects later on.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter050.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter052.jpg

mmmmmm new motor mounts

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter053.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/shifter054.jpg

I then took it for a drive in town.... which turned into a 2-hour cruise (again)... I really can't get enough of this car!

Firstly, for once, the drivetrain actually feels solidy attached and part of the car, instead of various thumps, clunks and movement.

The Z3 1.9 shifter is very impressive. If I don't buy the extra-pricey special UUC shifter for the e30, I am getting another Z3 1.9. Shift throws are very short... can shift between all gears simply by flicking the wrist, no more actual broomstick stuff. Because of the shorter throw, it slightly increases shift effort, which really dosen't translate to effort, but gives it an overall "notchy" feel.... which, I like. You know when it is in gear, and when it is not. Gear changes are a nice solid "click-click" sound/feel. At first I didn't think the gears were engaging all the way, and when first driving it took a bit to get used to, but I am *very* happy with it.

At first I thought it was maybe silly putting a short shifter in the eta.... but it dosen't matter what the engine is tuned for, I still do shifting and it is still a fun car to drive... this just (greatly) increased the fun of shifting gears. The shifter is slightly forward compared to stock, but because the throws are shorter, it evens out. I can still comfortably rest my arm on the arm rest and shift. Besides the short shifter, a modified (extended) clutch stop are the two things to greatly increase the fun of shifting your own gears in an old BMW.

As for tightness - there is still minimal play, but it's due to the crappy use of materials and design, it's as good as it gets when talking stock components.... FAR better then it was, and, for the plan and use of the 528e, more than adequate - I am really happy with it.... The car drives so nice now it feels "new".... hard to explain, but everything is tight and works as it should (mechanically) and it rewards the driver tenfold.

Pictures don't really show the improvement in shifter feel... it is something that much be felt by using it, but even then, here are some before and after videos...

ghknRCl6JoI

N4LMBZkrb9Q

After driving the car around for a couple more hours.... it really backed up my review in the previous post. The car has a very smooth and softish ride over bumps and normal driving, but is a totally different animal when the road is no longer straight. If the e30 is like a go-kart and my '96 Town Car was like driving around in your living room, then this 528e brings the living room into the go-kart for a truely unique driving experience.

Tomorrow.... should be lots of "visual" progress :yup:

Playdrv4me
10-11-10, 04:06 AM
Tomorrow.... should be lots of "visual" progress :yup:

Yay!!

Night Wolf
10-11-10, 10:33 AM
On further thought, I am going to wait to change the timing belt, I have the belt, tensioner, guide pin and spring... but I am going to order a water pump, thermostat, all coolant hoses, fan clutch (and maybe new fan), front crankshaft seal and front cam seal.... do it all at once and do it right.

Even though this car looks old and worn out, I want it to be as mechanically solid as it can be, I want to feel confident that at any given time I can take the car on a cross-country roadtrip without second thoughts and not have to worry about potential problems or failures.

Night Wolf
10-16-10, 04:07 AM
I've been driving the car around all week as my daily driver. There are still several quirks I need to fix, but for the most part it is doing very well. This car performs, overall, very well. It is unlike any other car I've owned.... that is the general feel of the car. For me to compare it to my past vehicles, I would say it is a mix of the e30 convertible and the Town Car. It feels very "personal" just like the e30 does... yet it has a softish ride and is overall "plush".... like the Lincoln was. It handles incredibly well for what it is, yet is a "midsize" car that is comfortably roomy for 4, and can seat 5.

I've gotten used to the power output and torque curve of the engine quite well... and for any type of driving I do with it - the car has enough power, with reserve on hand. It's not a speed demon, but it has yet to feel sluggish. Taking it on my favorite local driving road is a joy - this car just handles so well. It is a 55mph road and even on the hills and through turns, I can manipulate the assorment of pedals and shifter to maintain 70mph.... the old eta supplies enough power to maintain an already higher than posted speed.

It is sort of refreshing to drive a fixed roof vehicle again, not that I don't enjoy the convertibles, and if I had to choose a single vehicle to own, living where I do, it would be a convertible... but it is nice to have the benefits of a hardtop vehicle. It is much more secure, the music sounds a lot better and not dealing with water leaks in a vehicle that you don't want water to leak into is a really nice thing.

So last weekend I had 4 days off, and put the entire interior back in the car. As I was putting things back in, I was cleaning them with the 50/50 mix of Awesome and water (the parts that were not already cleaned). I have since actually gone over the interior with Aerospace303, which really brightened up the colors and made it not look "dried out" but for the sake of the progress pics, I'll post them in order.

The headliner had various stains on it

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior004-1.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior005.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior006.jpg

Around all the doors, on the rubber for the seals... was this useless fabric/fuzzy stuff... which by now was peeling away. I first thought about trying to reglue it in place, before realize I can remove it just by pulling.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior007.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior009.jpg

Now it is just bare rubber, but it is much cleaner looking, looks better then the fuzy stuff floping all around, and it isn't even noticable that anything is missing

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior010.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior011.jpg

Back to seeing what kind of goodness Awesome and h20 can pull out...

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior012.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior013.jpg

So then I sat in the seat and cleaned a portion of the sunroof cover, then slid it forward and cleaned again... here is an in progress pic

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior014-1.jpg

around both dome lights are stains... maybe water stains? I dunno... they won't come out, and it dosen't matter. i'd say for ~25 y/o headliner it came out pretty well.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior018.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior019.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior020.jpg

Night Wolf
10-16-10, 04:16 AM
I couldn't stand looking at the dash vents which were filthy inside. Some waste time with cotton swabs cleaning in between everything they can... I just removed the vents and let them soak in hot soapy water while I cleaned as much of the duct work I could reach

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior023.jpg

moved the cluster aside to clean around it... then removed the panel where the OBC and two buttons are. I replaced the rear defog switch with a spare I had that didn't have a worn away picture (still old one in this pic)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior024.jpg

The car had some light surface rust in a few places on the floor... I didn't like that so I was to address that problem

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior025.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior027.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior028.jpg

so I used this

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior034.jpg

to do this

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior029.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior030.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior031.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior032.jpg

Seeing what I had on hand that I could spray down, I saw some grey primer I bought when I painted the grille guard and part of the fender on the Isuzu... and I haven't used it since - perfect!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior033.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior035.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior036.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior038.jpg

Night Wolf
10-16-10, 04:33 AM
car ready for carpet

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior043.jpg

carpet ready for install

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior044.jpg

carpet installed

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior045.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior046.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior047.jpg

This is the cabin air temp sensor. It uses a small restricted vacuum line off the intake manifold to keep a steady, fresh flow of air over the sensor.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior052.jpg

I'm missing some sort of a cap that allows the vacuum line to attach to the housing... no fear...

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior053.jpg

The cig lighter and ashtray are backlit... but I couldn't keep the lighter against the console - it kept falling out. I'm sure it could be glued, but I didn't even bother.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior054.jpg

I've had this thing for over a year now... planned to use it in the Jeep but it found a new home

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior055.jpg

I have a new clean ash tray and was going to throw the old one out... but then decided to modify it - first by removing the metal linings

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior056.jpg

then this

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior057.jpg

That little contraption plugs into a 12v socket, then gives you 3 switched sockets... so I got to see where I wanted them. One went to the glove box, so I can charge stuff out of sight.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior058.jpg

Other went near here, which is a perfect spot to plug in the radar detector or GPS as the cord stays close to the dash

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior060.jpg

last one was here, which will be right next to the seat when it goes in... a great spot for hooking the cell phone charger up and charging the phone.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior061.jpg

Night Wolf
10-16-10, 04:39 AM
the original lighter is just in place as a cover, there is nothing behind it... but what is behind the ash tray?

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior062.jpg

BAM!

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior063.jpg

The lighter is always powered, and the little remote thngy has 3 switches to turn each plug on/off individually. When on the switch lights up red and the socket lights up blue... looks pretty cool.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior064.jpg

Whole console is done

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior065.jpg

got the back seat in. The vertical portion is from the junkyard, bottom part is original.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior068.jpg

silly Germans think of it all - including a dedicated buckle on the rear shelf to hold the middle seat belt when not in use.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior076.jpg

Then it was time to put the front seats in, but first I had to make one good pair from the original seats and junkyard seats so after swapping some parts over, I had a really nice set.

Back of the seat off.. I still have not fixed the power headrests. It is a cable driven unit with square drive engagement. Over time the plastic casing stretches while the cable stays the same length. This causes the square drive to no longer engage the motor. There are a few fixes, I just haven't gotten to them yet.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior072.jpg

the netting used to be elastic at the top, but now it is all stretched out. I pulled it tighter and tied a new knot, then cut the rest off, no more elastic but it looks a lot better, and still functions well.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior073.jpg

lotta motors! The whole seat is suspended by springs.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior074.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior075.jpg

Night Wolf
10-16-10, 04:52 AM
Whole interior installed... again, not cleaned with any real car interior product, so it looks worse then it does now (since been cleaned)

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior077.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior078.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior081.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior083.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior084.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior087.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior088.jpg

and some pictures in the day with all the windows down... the outside of the car hasn't even been "washed" yet... still just from the pressure washer, and in these pictures, the interior hasn't been detailed yet with car care products.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior100.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior097.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior099.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior102.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior103.jpg

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW%20e28/Fixup/interior104.jpg

a dorky video of the 12v sockets

7tRVkDs8lW4

There is NO more nasty cigerette smell at all... in fact the car just now has a neutral smell. The more I drive the car, the more I like it. One of the things that I really like is how well the car performs, yet I don't have to stress about it. The faded/worn paint and black hood don't bother me the slightest bit.... I'm really glad the interior cleaned up so well because that is where I spend most my time with the car. When driving it, the clean and good smelling interior make the whole experience so much better... and changes the feel of the car. Looks like an old beater on the outside, but a well-taken of luxury car inside.

I've slowed down the projects with the car, becuase so much of it is done now. I'm still working out a few quirks, and there are a few more dedicated days of repairs due, but overall now, I am just enjoying the car as it is, and it is a great little daily driver - fun to drive, very good on gas, music sounds great etc... I really enjoy this car.

When Ian said in a previous reply "what a pleasent little car", that is exactly how I think of the car. It dosen't look like much from the outside, but inside and behind the wheel it offers such a fun, involving and unique driving experience - I'm hooked!