: Any thoughts on why GM went away from the Laminova intercooler to a tube and fin?



BLitzkrieg
09-12-10, 02:47 PM
Any thoughts on why GM went away from the Laminova intercooler to a tube and fin? I thought the laminova was suppose to be the best intercooler available.

From this type
http://www.google.com/url?source=imgres&ct=img&q=http://www.scienceofspeed.com/products/engine_performance_products/NSX/ScienceofSpeed/Laminova_Intercooler/intercooler_800.jpg&sa=X&ei=fBGNTPAiwvqXB-bZ9WA&ved=0CAQQ8wc4BA&usg=AFQjCNHE7rM28znd6uOU7JaH74xFsZDP9w

to this type
http://us.tnpv.net/2008/GMC200801/GMC2008011428649_PV.jpg

snzuloz
09-12-10, 04:12 PM
I'd say cost was the main driver for the change.

Gary Wells
09-12-10, 04:54 PM
I'd say cost was the main driver for the change.
X2 Costing

neuronbob
09-12-10, 04:59 PM
X3 on cost. This car is such a bargain compared to the competition as a result of such changes....

Caddyscat
09-12-10, 06:42 PM
If you're seriously wondering why they went with the tube and fin versus the Laminova, take a look at the pictures you posted. The laminova looks like it's been thoughtfully engineered with some degree of precision. I would bet it's not cheap either, parts look milled and precise. Then look at the Tube-and -fin. Those aren't very expensive to make. Come up with a design on your Cad to utilize these heat exchangers and you'd definitely be able to take advantage of the D3 front unit.

BLitzkrieg
09-12-10, 07:18 PM
If you're seriously wondering why they went with the tube and fin versus the Laminova, take a look at the pictures you posted. The laminova looks like it's been thoughtfully engineered with some degree of precision. I would bet it's not cheap either, parts look milled and precise. Then look at the Tube-and -fin. Those aren't very expensive to make. Come up with a design on your Cad to utilize these heat exchangers and you'd definitely be able to take advantage of the D3 front unit.

GM utilized the laminova on the LSJ engines as well as the supercharged northstar. It doesn't need to be a cnc/billet piece. They produced manifolds from cast. Funny you should mention about me making an intercooler seeing how I make intercoolers for 335/135 and Minis

Gary Wells
09-12-10, 08:18 PM
GM utilized the laminova on the LSJ engines as well as the supercharged northstar. It doesn't need to be a cnc/billet piece. They produced manifolds from cast. Funny you should mention about me making an intercooler seeing how I make intercoolers for 335/135 and Minis

In this case, it wouldn't matter whether the material was cast and / or billet. It is obvious from looking at the sketches provided that the tube & fin design is considerably less in manufacturing / machining time, hand deburr / tumble deburr time and / or costs, assembly time and / or costs. And more than likely, GM is buying the supercharger complete with the intercooler / heat exchanger. And CNC is a plus to the manufacturer, distributor, and / or end user, not a negative. CNC cuts down considerably machining time, scrap rate, and / or rework costs. Bottom line is that tube & fin design is probably about 1/15 the cost of the other unit.

Karch
09-15-10, 03:52 AM
Any possibilty it actually performs better, or even similarily? Just because something is made better, doesn't necessarily it's better for the application.

I don't have time at the moment, but airflow and heat transfer are the key criteria, not build quality (assuming the lesser product doesn't have unacceptable failure rates) and method of manufacturing.

Cast products, while often cheaper, are often better...it just depends on the application. Obviously, tensile strength in cast products is significantly diminished, but compressive strength is high. This is just an example.

Only way to find out is through extensive testing. Anyone have any data on the two?

PGA2B
09-16-10, 11:55 AM
hand deburr / tumble deburr time

On the Northstar 4.4L SC motors the intercoolers are not deburred and that is an area that Stiegmeier and D3 improves on and is part of the intercooler lid porting process that result in some pretty nice gains due to better air flow and reduced air temps in the blower.

Gary Wells
09-16-10, 03:38 PM
Thanks for the correction, that was just a "ballpark" response to clarify the time and financial savings between the 2 assemblies.

Caddyscat
09-16-10, 10:22 PM
The Laminova intercooler appears to have many more channels through each tube, this helps heat exchange, resulting in cooler denser air entering the combustion chamber. It's an interesting looking piece of equipment from an HVAC standpoint.

mfrazstsv
09-16-10, 10:37 PM
If one of these would result in noticable improvement over the stock SC intercooler, can it be adapted to the CTS-V?