: Crank Position Sensor



00 Deville
09-11-04, 10:25 PM
I have a 2000 Deville with 10,800 original miles on it. I have been experiencing intermittent Decel Stalls and an occasional hard start. Until today no codes have been logged by the PCM. After a hard start today the SES (Service Engine Soon) light came on. I had the code read at the local AutoZone. It came up as P0385 (Crank Position Sensor B) after doing some research this appears to be a common problem on some of the early crank sensors. My exact problem seems to be addressed in TSB 02-06-04-019 which states to replace both crank sensors if the date code is before 0276.

I read (on another board) that this was covered under a "Campaign" to have the dealer replace them free of charge even though the original mfg warranty has expired. Has anyone had any experience with this Campaign? If so your help would be appreciated. I really don't want to buy the parts and change them myself if my local dealer will do it for free... while I eat the complementary Krispy Kreme Donuts and read the morning paper. :D

BeelzeBob
09-12-04, 02:45 AM
Have you checked with your dealer to see if they will replace them under warranty???

There were several generations of the crank sensors that superceded the original sensors in 2000 and it was well acknowleged via several service bulletins that the sensors were somewhat troublesome in 2000 model engines.

00 Deville
09-15-04, 09:10 PM
I haven't called my local dealership yet.... I have been out of town. I will call them when I get back and let you know how it comes out. Thanks Bob

toolman
09-16-04, 01:39 PM
I have a 2000 seville with the same problem.There was a campaign shown on snap-on program #99085 and this states that this job should be done free of charge,but cadillac say they never heard of this,so they wont pay for it.

00 Deville
09-16-04, 02:15 PM
I spoke with 2 different Cadillac dealerships this afternoon and also Emailed Cadillac Customer service and got the same response from them all. That my Deville was no longer under warranty and there are no recalls or campaigns for the crank sensors. If I would like to have both the upper and lower sensors replaced they would do it for $385.00.

I checked both All Data online and GM ESI (GM Electronic Service Information) and was unable to find any mention of a campaign although I did find many service bulletins.

Retail price for the 2 sensors is about $110 for parts I ordered a set from GMPartsDirect for less than $70 delivered. The latest GM part number is 12575481 for the upper and 12575482 for the lower. So it looks like I will be doing it myself. Keep in mind if you go this route you will need a scan tool to do the "Learn Procedure" after replacement.

00 Deville
09-16-04, 02:20 PM
ToolMan, I just ran your 2000 Seville through GM ESI and came up with the following....

Document ID# 668342
2000 Cadillac Seville

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Product Emission 99085 - Crankshaft Position Sensor Failures #99085 - (01/26/2000)
99085 -- Crankshaft Position Sensor Failures
Certain 2000 Cadillac Eldorado and Seville

General Motors has decided to conduct a Voluntary Emission Campaign involving certain 2000 Cadillac Eldorado and Seville model vehicles equipped with 4.6L (RPO LD8-VIN Code Y or RPO L37-VIN Code 9) engine. The crankshaft position sensors in these vehicles may fail and cause an intermittent engine chuggle, stall or possible long starting crank time and/or a no start condition, as well as illumination of the Malfunction Indicator Lamp (MIL). These conditions may be caused by a cracked solder joint at a resistor in the sensors.

To correct this condition, dealers are to replace both crankshaft position sensors.

Vehicles Involved
Involved are certain 2000 Cadillac Eldorado and Seville model vehicles equipped with 4.6L (RPO LD8-VIN Code Y or RPO L37-VIN Code 9) and built within the following VIN breakpoints:


2000 Cadillac Eldorado Vin Code YU101752 thru YU177716

2000 Cadillac Seville Vin Code YU102055 thru YU190443

( The Vin Code is the last 8 digits of your vin)



Important
Dealers should confirm vehicle eligibility through VISS (Vehicle Information Service System) prior to beginning campaign repairs. [Not all vehicles within the above breakpoints may be involved]


Involved vehicles have been identified by Vehicle Identification Number. Computer listings containing the complete Vehicle Identification Number, customer name and address data have been prepared, and are being furnished to involved dealers with the campaign bulletin. The customer name and address data furnished will enable dealers to follow-up with customers involved in this campaign. Any dealer not receiving a computer listing with the campaign bulletin has no involved vehicles currently assigned.

These dealer listings may contain customer names and addresses obtained from State Motor Vehicle Registration Records. The use of such motor vehicle registration data for any other purpose is a violation of law in several states. Accordingly, you are urged to limit the use of this listing to the follow-up necessary to complete this campaign.

Customer Notification
Customers will be notified of this campaign on their vehicles by General Motors (see copy of typical customer letter included with this bulletin - actual divisional letter may vary slightly).

In order to ensure full protection under the emission warranty, and the right to participate in future recalls, the customer notification letter recommends that customers have their vehicles serviced as soon as possible. It also advises that failure to do so could legally be determined to be lack of proper maintenance. The vehicle may fail a state or local emission inspection test if the recall work is not completed.

Dealer Campaign Responsibility
All unsold new vehicles in dealers' possession and subject to this campaign MUST be held and inspected/repaired per the service procedure of this campaign bulletin BEFORE customers take possession of these vehicles.

Dealers are to service all vehicles subject to this campaign at no charge to customers, regardless of mileage, age of vehicle, or ownership, from this time forward.

Customers who have recently purchased vehicles sold from your vehicle inventory, and for which there is no customer information indicated on the dealer listing, are to be contacted by the dealer. Arrangements are to be made to make the required correction according to the instructions contained in this bulletin. This could be done by mailing to such customers a copy of the customer letter accompanying this bulletin. Campaign follow-up cards should not be used for this purpose, since the customer may not as yet have received the notification letter.

In summary, whenever a vehicle subject to this campaign enters your vehicle inventory, or is in your dealership for service in the future, please take the steps necessary to be sure the campaign correction has been made before selling or releasing the vehicle.

When a California emissions campaign is completed by a GM dealer, the dealer must provide the vehicle owner a "Proof Of Correction Certificate" which the owner may need to present to the California Department Of Motor Vehicles (DMV) when renewing their vehicle registration. Without this correction certificate, the owner may be unable to renew their vehicle registration.

00 Deville
09-16-04, 02:43 PM
Does anyone know why GM would have recalled the Seville and Eldorado but not the Deville? They all came with the Northstar LD8 or L37 with the same Crank Position Sensors. :banghead:

BeelzeBob
09-16-04, 11:32 PM
Does anyone know why GM would have recalled the Seville and Eldorado but not the Deville? They all came with the Northstar LD8 or L37 with the same Crank Position Sensors. :banghead:


I think they were also. Run a Deville VIN and see if you get a similar recall notice.

toolman
09-17-04, 10:49 AM
that is the same campaign # that i have,and my vin# is right in the middle of the two # that are giving,but cadillac will not replace the sensors for free,i dont get it.I had it fixed a a local shop for 200.00 cadillac wanted 400.00

00 Deville
09-17-04, 11:02 AM
Bob,

I ran a recall check for a 2000, 2001, 2002 & 2003 Devilles and could not find a recall on the Crank sensors. But I did find a service Service VME - 4.6L ( L37, LD8 ) Northstar Engine Crank Sensors - kw DTC MIL stall #PI01478 - (10/30/2003) That covered the 00, 01, 02, 03 Cadillac Seville 4.6L (LD8, L37) Engine and 00, 01, 02, 03 Cadillac Deville 4.6L L37, LD8 Engines. It just explained that a new more reliable crank sensor was now available. I also Emailed-
Ms. Crystal Cooper
Customer Relationship Manager
Cadillac Customer Assistance Center

She said "I have searched our system and did not find any recalls for the
2000 DeVille relating to crank sensors."

I also have contacted my local dealer and they said the same thing... No Recall on the Deville. But as you can see by my above post the Seville and Eldorado were recalled under a product emission campaign. It would appear that the Deville was overlooked... Maybe I should bring this to the attention of the NHTSA for further investigation.