: Install of Wait4me Heat Exchanger with Custom Bumper Mount



MT14R
09-09-10, 11:34 PM
I've finished my wait4me heat exchanger install (complete with custom bracket so the H/E can be solidly mounted to the bumper with sheet metal screws) and I've had a few days to drive the car to make sure I didn't mess anything up too badly. I thought I would share the details of my install with you guys.

I know there has been a lot of discussion about this in the past and the consensus is that the wait4me H/E does not need a bracket and that a press fit is sufficient. After completing my install, I agree that the wait4me H/E does not NEED a bracket--it is held tightly by the bumper and front fascia. However, I decided to have a bracket custom made because it makes me feel better knowing the H/E is solidly attached to the car.

The downside of attaching the H/E to the car is you will need to completely remove the front fascia. My dad and I are reasonably experienced shade tree mechanics and with the aid of the Hennessey H/E install instructions

http://lib.store.yahoo.net/lib/yhst-54734705425182/CTSV-heat-exchanger.pdf

we were able to remove the front bumper in ~1 hour.

Once the bumper is removed, the first step is to mark where the bracket will be welded to the wait4me H/E. BE VERY CAREFUL when making your measurements. When Jesse says that his H/E is the largest you can fit inside the bumper he is not joking. I'm not exactly sure what the tolerances are, but I would guess your measurements need to be accurate within ~1/4" for the H/E to fit. The best way to make measurements for the bracket location is to hang the H/E from the bumper using wire or string and re-install the front bumper. Move the H/E around until it is exactly where you want it and carefully mark the top of the H/E along the black tab that hangs down from the bumper. This is where you will have the bracket welded to the H/E.

I used ~24" of 1.5" x 1/16" of aluminum strap for the bracket. The bracket was welded to the top of the wait4me H/E using 5 1-2" long welds on both sides of the aluminum strap. Most radiator shops should be able to weld the bracket to the H/E. The most important thing is to make sure that you find someone that has a lot of experience welding ALUMINUM. I found someone to weld the bracket for $20.

Once the bracket is welded to the H/E. The H/E was attached to the front tab hanging below the front bumper using 5 1" long #14 sheet metal screws and lock washers. Alternatively, you could use four 2-3" sections of the 1.5" x 1/16" aluminum strap. This will make it easier to tilt the H/E slightly if you need to once it is attached to the bumper. This may be necessary because the black tab on the bumper is not completely vertical and the welder my not get the bracket at exactly the right angle.

Now the WHAT I SHOULD NOT HAVE DONE part :banghead:

I'm not going to give you the details of how I routed the plumbing because I messed that part up a bit. I thought it would be easier to mount the H/E with the inlet/outlet on the drivers side of the car because the longer factory coolant hose would make routing the cooling lines easier. While routing the coolant hose worked well, there is a significant draw back. If the wait4me H/E is oriented this way, the coolant will flow through the stock H/E first. While this does not affect the efficiency of the system, the stock bleeder valve can not be used and refilling the system will be much more difficult.

Unfortunately, I didn't realize this until the bracket was welded on. I wasn't in the mood to grind off the bracket and have another welded on so I just left it this way. For anyone planning to add a bracket to the wait4me H/E, I recommend placing the inlet/outlet of the wait4me H/E on the passenger side of the car and routing the coolant hose as illustrated in Jesse's youtube vid or in the following link.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/196435-does-w4m-heat-exchanger-replace-stock.html

cbloveday
09-10-10, 12:20 AM
Fantastic work and great writeup. :)

baabootoo
09-10-10, 01:35 AM
Yeah, you guys are using your blood, seat and time for us. I'm just surprised at the extra parts, and engineering that must go into this thing.

lavaman
09-10-10, 09:29 AM
Nice job indeed! Thanks for the post!

Silver -V-
09-10-10, 10:50 AM
That looks great. My H/E always worries me when I am at the track, and your solution would really make me feel better about dropping parts on the course. My solution was to use tie wire and support the H/E around the bumper brackets. It isn't as elegant as yours, but it does give me some piece of mind. As far as hose routing goes, I used the W4Me routing and bleeder, but I still had to top off the coolant for about a week after to get rid of all of the bubbles in the system.

You did a great job, and thanks for the photos!

wfo
09-10-10, 12:17 PM
Good to know thanks for the post.

How does the D3 exchanger compare and are they recommending mounting brackets?

I've heard one such case where their D3 H.E. was installed without bracketry and the thing fell from it'a perch.

PhxTriode
09-10-10, 01:46 PM
Good to know thanks for the post.

How does the D3 exchanger compare and are they recommending mounting brackets?

I've heard one such case where their D3 H.E. was installed without bracketry and the thing fell from it'a perch.

The D3 has brackets and can't see any reason someone wouldn't mount it with the welded brackets. If you are going to go through the trouble of pulling the front of the car apart to even fit it in the space why not mount it securely.

Performance wise I never had the W4M installed so I can not speak to a performance comparison. I am happy with the D3, while tuning my car for drivability I can watch the IAT2's plummet from a hot idle (stopped) temp vs 10-15 mph (30deg difference).

Although I think IAT2's while not moving will be lower with the W4M setup. It utilizes the factory H/E which do to it closer proximity to the radiator gets some assistance form the fans where the D3 is far enough to the front of the car and the thickness of the core doesn't allow for draw through.

Hope this helps

dons
09-10-10, 06:52 PM
I hate to burst your bubble, but a V here in Texas lost it heat exchanger because it fell out. Mine was also bouncing around and laying heavy on my lower lip of the front section of my car. I had braces installed to insure that it would not fall out and move around. I feel alot better now that it is secure. In my opinion the kit should come with fastners. Thanks though for all the pictures and write up. DonS

MT14R
09-11-10, 01:04 AM
Hi Guys,

Glad to hear that my write up was useful. I'm an engineer so I actually enjoyed figuring out how to make a bracket to permanently attach the H/E to the bumper. Although, I must warn you, I'm an electrical engineer so be very wary of the advice I give you about anything mechanical :D



As far as hose routing goes, I used the W4Me routing and bleeder, but I still had to top off the coolant for about a week after to get rid of all of the bubbles in the system.


I've put on ~1000 miles since installing the H/E. About 800 of those miles were put on today driving back to Colorado from Montana. I have had to add coolant several times, but it seems to be taking less and less coolant each time. The last time I filled it up it only took a couple ounces. I think I'm getting close to having all the air bubbles worked out of the system. Maybe being able to use the factory bleed valve is not that much of an advantage after all.

GMX322V S/C
09-11-10, 03:51 AM
The D3 has brackets and can't see any reason someone wouldn't mount it with the welded brackets...:yup:

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_7fp7bZcElbk/TIsmPWGj2hI/AAAAAAAAAy4/TbFNtAn19Gw/s800/Supercooler-rt800.jpg

wfo
09-11-10, 11:59 AM
Which H.E.....D3 or Wait4me has the higher fluid capacity?

Appropriate mounting hardware?

Fit and finish?

Respondants, please...only users of same or those who actually know the answers. Thanks.

Dr. Design
09-11-10, 09:17 PM
Hello,
Just to clarify, it was NOT A D3 Intercooler that feel out of a V owners car, that was someone elses intercooler. I recall he had a pretty good size post about what really happened.... I think his user name was John Curan Campbell??

Our D3 super intercooler is more than twice the size of anything else currently on the market. It was also specifically built for the Cadillac CTS-V application. It was not a fluidyne air-to-water intercooler that was adapted to fit in the CTS-V like some of the others on the market.

I don't know if you will find specs on the other units on the forums, but we have them at the shop and I can post them on Monday. The fluid capacity of the D3 unit is 1.5 gallons, not including the 7-8 ft worth of 1/2" hose that comes with each and every kit for install.

Our kit comes with EVERYTHING you will need for the installation. To be exact it comes with the following:
Super Intercooler 5.5" thick
Aluminum Mounting Brackets
Mouting Hardware/fasteners
A/N Fittings
1/2" High Quality Hose (9ft per kit)
Instructions
Upgraded Intercooler Fluid Pump
CNC Laser Cut Intercooler Bracket w/D3 laser etch
Mounting Hardware for new intercooler pump & bracket
Tech Support
Product Liability Insurance
Full Aluminum Construction (i.e. no epoxy, etc..)

All for $1695 plus shipping.

We have seen the others first hand and had a chance to really take a good look at them. We have no doubt in our minds that we have created the best intercooler upgrade for this application, bar none.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac





Which H.E.....D3 or Wait4me has the higher fluid capacity?

Appropriate mounting hardware?

Fit and finish?

Respondants, please...only users of same or those who actually know the answers. Thanks.

lawnstripes
09-13-10, 02:04 PM
nice right up..... alot of work (ours hasnt moved in 4k miles) just sayin'

Domsz06
09-13-10, 02:56 PM
this is a great write up. I'm sorry but there is no way I would put a H/E on my car without it being bolted to something. Just plain bad ju-ju. Esp after reading the write up on LS1tech where his fell out of his car.

I like D3's intercooler, but for 1700 bucks no thanks.

wait4me
09-13-10, 05:29 PM
I still haven't seen pictures of what the bumper looked like on the car that one fell out of. It had to have been missing the WHOLE bottom half. And some power steering lines would have had to be cut off for it to have falled out. Steering lines are kinda important.

The covers and the bumper cover keep it from being able to move at all. We have over 250 i have built now and sold in the past years, and i still dont see a need for the brackets, but they are easy to put on for those that want them. It is just 2 L shapes on the end tanks. But to pull a front bumper just to install one is a pain.

cbloveday
09-13-10, 06:18 PM
Yep, no problems with mine. I got about 7,000 miles on my H.E. and it has not moved. Works great too.

Domsz06
09-14-10, 08:52 AM
I still haven't seen pictures of what the bumper looked like on the car that one fell out of. It had to have been missing the WHOLE bottom half. And some power steering lines would have had to be cut off for it to have falled out. Steering lines are kinda important.

The covers and the bumper cover keep it from being able to move at all. We have over 250 i have built now and sold in the past years, and i still dont see a need for the brackets, but they are easy to put on for those that want them. It is just 2 L shapes on the end tanks. But to pull a front bumper just to install one is a pain.

I guess it's the engineer in myself or the fact that I have ruined so many things by doing it the not smart way. I haven't taked a look to see, and I'm not doubting you Jesse, I'm just saying when I buy one, it will be bolted on because that's just me. To all the others it's your own descision, and I would venture to say it sounds like it will do just find since you only have what appears 1 failure in 250 sample size, pretty good odds IMO.

:thumbs:

arubenstein
06-18-11, 11:14 AM
I note that people leave the stock H/E in the car. Is there any reason to not pull it out? Is it really adding that much cooling capacity to the much larger, after-market H/E?

zeeboid
07-23-13, 08:36 PM
Anyone ever get an answer on why you would leave the stock H/E in the car?

Random84
07-24-13, 12:45 PM
Anyone ever get an answer on why you would leave the stock H/E in the car?

Many guys will run the OEM H/E in tandem with an aftermarket unit: not only does it drastically increase the net effective surface area and fluid volume (ie 2 exchangers vs just one; more fluid = more stable/lower temps); but there are also some perceived advantages to having both. Having one exchanger down low in the bumper is more efficient at speed (cleaner airflow), and having an exchanger higher up near the radiator can theoretically take advantage of the fans when the car is sitting still.

Whether or not this is truly effective I don't know - but there are several discussions on this over on the "other" sight in the "cooling" subforum.