: How does the V work at the track?



ekyub
09-05-10, 10:00 PM
I'm curious to know how if any of you take the CTS-V to the track for a HPDE (High Performance Drivers Education). Whenever I buy a car it must satisfy me at the track. The V seems like such a capable machine as touted by Lutz and Heinrecy.

I've read some threads on the drag strip tracks but I'm not into that kind of track.

Thanks again.

e6t
09-06-10, 12:12 AM
This should just about cover it. ;)


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Ky8ZiO6ebn0

Tony407
09-06-10, 02:39 AM
A ton of us have tacked our Vs and I really haven't heard any negative remarks. I think the car is wonderful. Fast, composed, almost effortless. I've even autocrossed a couple of times and impressed the hell out of myself as well as the spectators.

Tony

mannyz
09-06-10, 03:16 AM
Yea... I haven't tried autoxing the car yet. I may do that soon since I have a friend in a nismo 350z talking smack about the v and saying the car wasn't made to handle well unlike his.

DrumStix
09-06-10, 09:59 AM
Doing 50 mph through a few cones is like testing for a learners permit. :)
No value there for a car like ours. He may have fun in his tiny car but take him to a track day and see who's got the better car.
BTW, you'll never convince him so why bother trying. If you're a novice at autoX, you'll only help "prove his point."

ekyub
09-06-10, 12:31 PM
Make sure your 350Z friend reads this article about brakes...http://www.caranddriver.com/features/10q2/z_meets_wall_we_investigate_why_the_nismo_z_s_brak es_failed_at_lightning_lap-feature

It's obvious the V has a competent package. I'm curious to hear how the tires hold up, brakes, etc. I had an M5 which was supposedly the target for the V but that car did absolutely nothing for me at the track. It was too big and heavy in the corners. The V is dimensionally smaller than the M5 which is great but I'm curious how ponderous it feels or doesn't feel. I'm heading to MSR Houston for the CTS-V Coupe trackday.

Fubar75207
09-06-10, 02:35 PM
The V is better than an M5 on the track but it ain't no lightweight. You can definitely feel it roll in corners and although the brakes are very capable you will be able to fade them. Acceleration out of the turns is awesome, even after the cars get some heat soak in SC. If you are using the paddle shifters, the LSa motor's torque is sufficient to let you stay in higher gears longer than the euro cars. That means you get to concentrate on steering and you don't loose momentum shifting every 2 seconds.

Any day at the track is a good day. Have fun.

mannyz
09-06-10, 03:35 PM
The learner permit comment is hilarious.. Yea, I've been trying to get him to bite going to a real track but he wouldn't budge. Thanks for the feedback! OP, the track was what the car was designed for.

thebigjimsho
09-06-10, 04:32 PM
The V is a competent performer. But it is no lightweight. Pump up the fronts to run about 45psi hot, possibly switch to Amsoil or RedLine diff fluid, upgrade the brake fluid and have fun. The front pressures are important as you'll scrub off the outer edges of the tires in a hurry...

Short-Throw
09-06-10, 11:55 PM
Pump up the fronts to run about 45psi hot

You're joking right?



To the OP, I love this car as if it were still day one, more-so than many of the sports cars I have owned, but if you've driven any car under 3400lbs on track, you will not like how the V handles on a road circuit. It's capable of some very respectable times but not repeatedly without digging into your wallet for consumables. Like many have already mentioned, it's too heavy for HPDE use. If you don't have the optional diff cooler forget it. Those that don't have the diff cooler and haven't experienced any issues are simply not driving the car very hard. That being said it's still a blast to drive on track as any car is.

ekyub
09-07-10, 09:52 AM
To the OP, I love this car as if it were still day one, more-so than many of the sports cars I have owned, but if you've driven any car under 3400lbs on track, you will not like how the V handles on a road circuit. It's capable of some very respectable times but not repeatedly without digging into your wallet for consumables. Like many have already mentioned, it's too heavy for HPDE use. If you don't have the optional diff cooler forget it. Those that don't have the diff cooler and haven't experienced any issues are simply not driving the car very hard. That being said it's still a blast to drive on track as any car is.

Thank you all for the feedback. The heaviest was my M5. The lightest has been my 911s. Weight isn't so much the concern as is the 'tautness' of the car. The M5 left me feeling cold and lacked 'fun factor'. Steering is very numb and the power was great. I like it to feel direct and responsive.

Every car I've owned, except wife's SUVs, have all seen the track. That is a prerequisite of every car I own. I don't have deep pockets nor the time for upkeep to own 2 cars. I like to own one nice performance car that I can take to the track and then go to church in the same weapon. Being top of the time charts isn't a big consideration.

garfin
09-07-10, 10:17 AM
I like it to feel direct and responsive.

I like to own one nice performance car that I can take to the track and then go to church in the same weapon. Being top of the time charts isn't a big consideration.

Your priorities sound very similar to mine... so I'll add in my $0.02:
I've had the V out on Mosport's Grand Prix Track once and it is without a doubt, an extremely capable track car. Compared to my '98 Camaro SS which is set up for road courses, I'd describe the V as almost effortless to blast around a track in. The Camaro is much more visceral and it affords far more sensory input to the driver than the V. I find the Camaro much more of a handful and less forgiving than the V. That being said, the V is faster around a high speed track like Mosport.
I would think twice before taking the V out on a smaller, tighter, lower speed track or autoXing it - simply because of its weight and how that can impact "consumables". Lower speed venues don't seem to be the car's forte, but the higher speed tracks are definitely where the car stands out and it can demonstrate use its power to the max. Besides, I've been driving Mosport for about 6 yrs. and I'm spoiled! It's a great track that has a beautiful flow to it and it is actually very easy on tires and brakes. It's almost seems as if the V was built for that track!... and no problem running 42-45 PSI in the fronts to save the edges. With both my son and I driving the V around that track for most of a day, there is some wear on the edges of the front tires, but you have to look closely to see it. We were running about 43 PSI front and 39-40 PSI rear.

Best regards,

Elie

ekyub
09-07-10, 02:29 PM
Your priorities sound very similar to mine... so I'll add in my $0.02:
I've had the V out on Mosport's Grand Prix Track once and it is without a doubt, an extremely capable track car. Compared to my '98 Camaro SS which is set up for road courses, I'd describe the V as almost effortless to blast around a track in. The Camaro is much more visceral and it affords far more sensory input to the driver than the V. I find the Camaro much more of a handful and less forgiving than the V. That being said, the V is faster around a high speed track like Mosport.
I would think twice before taking the V out on a smaller, tighter, lower speed track or autoXing it - simply because of its weight and how that can impact "consumables". Lower speed venues don't seem to be the car's forte, but the higher speed tracks are definitely where the car stands out and it can demonstrate use its power to the max. Besides, I've been driving Mosport for about 6 yrs. and I'm spoiled! It's a great track that has a beautiful flow to it and it is actually very easy on tires and brakes. It's almost seems as if the V was built for that track!... and no problem running 42-45 PSI in the fronts to save the edges. With both my son and I driving the V around that track for most of a day, there is some wear on the edges of the front tires, but you have to look closely to see it. We were running about 43 PSI front and 39-40 PSI rear.

Best regards,

Elie

In my M3 I was schooled by a prepped Camaro SS. Granted my M3 was stock but that guy could DRIVE!

I don't have any intentions of autox'ing and read from your post that the weight will brutalize the tires. Mosport sounds is a fast track. I run either TWS or MSR Houston. Each have their tight sections. I imagine tire pressure, as you mentioned, is going to be critical. How does the suspension hold up? A lot of lateral movement?

Ever since I watched DTM in the 90s I was infatuated with sedans that go fast! The V really intrigues my track compulsion.

If anyone who reads this is in Houston and going to a trackday I would LOVE to go for a ride!!

Z06ified
09-07-10, 02:42 PM
I'm going to find out in less than 2 weeks when I take my V to Monticello as part of a NASA HPDE. I'm curious as to how it will perform relative to my '02 Z06, which I currently have nearly all of my track time in, and has been a phenomenal track car. I know the weight will be a factor as I'm looking at almost exactly 1,000 lbs. heavier than my Z06. But I think the better steering and feedback from the chassis, coupled with the magnetic ride control and huge torque of the LSA will compensate for the weight issue. I'll post my thoughts after I try it.

Fubar75207
09-08-10, 01:56 PM
You're joking.....If you don't have the optional diff cooler forget it. Those that don't have the diff cooler and haven't experienced any issues are simply not driving the car very hard. That being said it's still a blast to drive on track as any car is.

I agree the 45lbs of tire pressure sounds like a bad idea but I can honestly say I've never tried it. As for the trans cooler, I disagree. I was very cognizant of trans temp and it stayed in an acceptable range. The motor was a different story.

thebigjimsho
09-08-10, 04:43 PM
You're joking right?



To the OP, I love this car as if it were still day one, more-so than many of the sports cars I have owned, but if you've driven any car under 3400lbs on track, you will not like how the V handles on a road circuit. It's capable of some very respectable times but not repeatedly without digging into your wallet for consumables. Like many have already mentioned, it's too heavy for HPDE use. If you don't have the optional diff cooler forget it. Those that don't have the diff cooler and haven't experienced any issues are simply not driving the car very hard. That being said it's still a blast to drive on track as any car is.
Nope, not joking at all. I even got to talk to a Michelin engineer at Moticello and I told him I was running about 45psi hot on the fronts and he said, exactly: "That sounds about right."

I scrubbed off a lot of outer tread at Summit Point Main in June running hot pressures of about 40-42 all around. At Waterford Hills, the front PS2s were howling for their lives at 40psi hot. 2 increases, ending at 45-46psi hot and they were much more stable with much less wear.


As for diff coolers, I think you're a little full of yourself. I ran plenty hard at those 2 track days, with the Summit day well into the 90s and had no issues. Now, I've never run on stock fluid so I don't know if the Amsoil makes a difference. But, again, no issues...

Tony407
09-08-10, 05:00 PM
I agree the 45lbs of tire pressure sounds like a bad idea but I can honestly say I've never tried it.

The first time I tracked a car the venue required this much pressure. In essence, it was their way of limiting the chances of you rolling a tire. However, with that much pressure I found my lap times suffering. Just by dropping 5 psi (or more) I immediately noticed much better handling and corresponding lap times. I think with our 19" wheels and tires we shouldn't have to worry about rolling a tire as long as we're not severely under-inflated.

Tony

thebigjimsho
09-08-10, 07:09 PM
The first time I tracked a car the venue required this much pressure. In essence, it was their way of limiting the chances of you rolling a tire. However, with that much pressure I found my lap times suffering. Just by dropping 5 psi (or more) I immediately noticed much better handling and corresponding lap times. I think with our 19" wheels and tires we shouldn't have to worry about rolling a tire as long as we're not severely under-inflated.

Tony
I can show you my front tires that had even tread from inside to out...until my track days.

Tony407
09-08-10, 07:35 PM
I can show you my front tires that had even tread from inside to out...until my track days.

I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that after track days you have uneven wear? At 45 psi?

I can show you all 4 of my OEM wheels and tires (which have become dedicated track wheels/tires) which have nearly-even tread, and this is with 2 track days and 2 autocross days. Although the shoulders on the front tires are a little more worn than the centers (maybe the rears too?), I would prefer this with a slightly lower psi and being able to shave about 5 seconds off my lap time.

Tony

ekyub
09-08-10, 07:58 PM
Honestly I'm a little surprised there aren't many V owners who track their car. But I guess the target market is more street brawler.

Tony407
09-08-10, 08:13 PM
I can show you my front tires that had even tread from inside to out...until my track days.

Maybe if you were thelittlejimsho you wouldn't need so much pressure in your tires to support all the extra weight? :histeric:

Tony

backup
09-08-10, 08:57 PM
I'm going to find out in less than 2 weeks when I take my V to Monticello as part of a NASA HPDE. I'm curious as to how it will perform relative to my '02 Z06, which I currently have nearly all of my track time in, and has been a phenomenal track car. I know the weight will be a factor as I'm looking at almost exactly 1,000 lbs. heavier than my Z06. But I think the better steering and feedback from the chassis, coupled with the magnetic ride control and huge torque of the LSA will compensate for the weight issue. I'll post my thoughts after I try it.

In my experience in a couple sessions, a stock V is very similar in track times to a stock C5 Z06 or base C6. The weight makes cornering speeds slower but you can make up a lot in the straights and on corner exit. C6 Z06 is a lot faster. Stock brake pads will glaze if really going at it, and the rear diff will overheat at >9/10ths. Fortunately HPDE is not a race, so if you get a diff overtemp alarm just slow down and let it cool for a lap or two. Power oversteer is easy, I ran in competition mode and found it to be useful. It does have body roll though, I would like athird suspension setting for "track", something stiffer than sport.

thebigjimsho
09-08-10, 09:05 PM
I'm not sure what your point is. Are you saying that after track days you have uneven wear? At 45 psi?

I can show you all 4 of my OEM wheels and tires (which have become dedicated track wheels/tires) which have nearly-even tread, and this is with 2 track days and 2 autocross days. Although the shoulders on the front tires are a little more worn than the centers (maybe the rears too?), I would prefer this with a slightly lower psi and being able to shave about 5 seconds off my lap time.

Tony
At Summit Point, I did wear off some of the outer shoulders as I had the pressures at about 40psi hot. But it's not the tightest track. Waterford Hills is a different story. I could see the amount of wear the first 2 sessions as the front tires took a beating. They were almost bald on the outer shoulders after those 2 sessions. I finished 3 more after bumping up the pressures with minimal wear.

The PS2s have less tread on the outer shoulders anyway, so you're going to wear down the outers more quickly than the rest of the tire, but it was more pronounced.

mannyz
09-08-10, 11:28 PM
In my experience in a couple sessions, a stock V is very similar in track times to a stock C5 Z06 or base C6. The weight makes cornering speeds slower but you can make up a lot in the straights and on corner exit. C6 Z06 is a lot faster. Stock brake pads will glaze if really going at it, and the rear diff will overheat at >9/10ths. Fortunately HPDE is not a race, so if you get a diff overtemp alarm just slow down and let it cool for a lap or two. Power oversteer is easy, I ran in competition mode and found it to be useful. It does have body roll though, I would like athird suspension setting for "track", something stiffer than sport.

I don't mean to thread jack or anything but figured I'd ask this question here instead of making another thread. Can having old/bad differential fluid cause you to miss shifts? Grind gears, etc? Would it affect that at all?

Short-Throw
09-08-10, 11:57 PM
Nope, not joking at all. I even got to talk to a Michelin engineer at Moticello and I told him I was running about 45psi hot on the fronts and he said, exactly: "That sounds about right."

I scrubbed off a lot of outer tread at Summit Point Main in June running hot pressures of about 40-42 all around. At Waterford Hills, the front PS2s were howling for their lives at 40psi hot. 2 increases, ending at 45-46psi hot and they were much more stable with much less wear.

As for diff coolers, I think you're a little full of yourself. I ran plenty hard at those 2 track days, with the Summit day well into the 90s and had no issues. Now, I've never run on stock fluid so I don't know if the Amsoil makes a difference. But, again, no issues...


Sorry but the heavier the car, the more the need to rotate the car to get it through the corners, especially with a stock alignment. We teach this to law enforcement on a weekly basis at Autobahn with the big sedans. I concur that tire pressure is key but if you're wearing out your edges under 45psi, it tells me that the car is being pushed and not rotated -- that's not only a slower way around the track, but harder on tires than necessary.

As far as the diff cooler, there are forum members here who have experienced the hot diff warning early on, some posted about, some did not. I mentioned this possibility almost two years ago before anyone had even tracked one. We have 3 CTS-Vs (one of them a new V coupe) in our performance fleet; they were delivered from GM with mandatory diff coolers. If you've had no problem to date that's awesome. As long as you're enjoying the car with no warnings carry on.

Tony407
09-09-10, 12:18 AM
Sorry but the heavier the car, the more the need to rotate the car to get it through the corners, especially with a stock alignment. We teach this to law enforcement on a weekly basis at Autobahn with the big sedans.

Would you please elaborate on what you mean by having to "rotate" the car to get it through the corners?

Not that I think it matters, but I am ex-law enforcement and was a police driving instructor for 11 years. I have a decent amount of experience with big sedans.

Tony

Short-Throw
09-09-10, 10:32 AM
Would you please elaborate on what you mean by having to "rotate" the car to get it through the corners?

Not that I think it matters, but I am ex-law enforcement and was a police driving instructor for 11 years. I have a decent amount of experience with big sedans.

Tony

Hi Tony,

I'm not aware of every program available to police. Did you teach officers right out of the Academy? In Glenview, IL for example officers can go through an 8-hour tactical police driving certification (or recertification) program.


In a nutshell -- weight transfer by proper trail-braking. Most HPDErs are off the brakes way too early, or too late. There's an art to having the rear end consistently rotate while in control of the vehicle with minimal hand correction. I'm not talking about drifting or screeching tires. Many may also 'throttle steer' to compensate for premature braking as they roll into a corner which is also slower. A skid-pad car is ideal for learning this and those that have been to Bondurant or Spring Mountain have most likely experienced this.

Autobahn works with Naperville, Westmont and other western suburb forces of Chicago. These officers receive driver training early on in their career then sparsely going forward. One wouldn't suspect it, but there are more police fender bender incidents than one would expect. We have had fantastic feedback from the officers that have come for continuing driver training. This is an optional program that each department chief approves. Ironically the program started after a chief of police from a neighboring suburb came to the club as a guest years ago and drove his Corvette on track with an instructor realizing there was more to car control then he realized. Also, I'm an not saying that police drivers ed is not sufficient, just that more seat time and continuing education make them better drivers. Seat time is a commodity we are all short on, there can never be too much.

I'd be happy to discuss further through a PM or via voice if you'd like.

Mike

thebigjimsho
09-09-10, 12:32 PM
Sorry but the heavier the car, the more the need to rotate the car to get it through the corners, especially with a stock alignment. We teach this to law enforcement on a weekly basis at Autobahn with the big sedans. I concur that tire pressure is key but if you're wearing out your edges under 45psi, it tells me that the car is being pushed and not rotated -- that's not only a slower way around the track, but harder on tires than necessary.

As far as the diff cooler, there are forum members here who have experienced the hot diff warning early on, some posted about, some did not. I mentioned this possibility almost two years ago before anyone had even tracked one. We have 3 CTS-Vs (one of them a new V coupe) in our performance fleet; they were delivered from GM with mandatory diff coolers. If you've had no problem to date that's awesome. As long as you're enjoying the car with no warnings carry on.At Summit Point I was able to keep the V settled through Turn 5 and keep it from plowing too much throughout to Turn 9. I'll admit that on the first couple sessions, I needed to figure out the limitations and how to deal with them. But later, I did OK. As for the tiny and tight Waterford Hills, there are some series of corners that it's nearly impossible to set the V the way you'd normally like. Ultimately, I pumped up the pressures and Michelin's own engineer agreed with the pressures I ran. That's good enough for me.

And I'm well aware of the diff overheat issue. I've had my eye on adding a cooler for awhile. But I'll also entertain the idea that changing the fluid to Amsoil may do just enough to keep the temps at bay. Who knows?

OldRoadDawg
09-09-10, 03:57 PM
..... I'm an not saying that police drivers ed is not sufficient, just that more seat time and continuing education make them better drivers.
You stirred up some nostalgic thoughts from years ago... of times at the CHP academy and out on the road, ... when the reactions were quicker and the eyesight was sharper.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-DOMBA72Axw

Oops! Sorry for the thread jack. Back to the 'V' and its road course capabilities.:pop2:

chrswk
09-12-10, 12:05 PM
I would like to add my 2 cents after spending 2 days with the V at the Hockenheimring.

First I have to say, I would not consider myself an experienced driver (on the street and on the racetrack). As far as racing goes, it basically consists of the 5 days in spent in March with Skip Barber at Sebring (3 day school and 2 day advanced school), racing Spec Miatas, and now the two days in Hockenheim. I feel like I have the theory down pretty well, but I can not comment on practical things like tire pressure, amount of under steer compared to other cars, body roll, etc.

Regarding the tires, I decided to learn from the reports of others on here (like thebigjimsho and garfin), so I went with 42 psi cold front and 40 psi cold in the rear for the two days. Other than that, the car was stock and still on it's first set of pads and tires (8000+ miles). I got a set of 265/305 Bridgestone RE-11 and Hawk DTC-30 pads last week but decided to go with the stock setup on my first track day.

The two days consisted of 1 1/2 days of basic exercises (braking, slalom, figure 8 dry/wet, etc. to get a feel for the car) and learning all corners of the track individually and 1/2 day of lapping. Since there were around 150 cars in total, divided in 10 classes, the 1/2 day of lapping consisted of 20 minutes of driving behind the instructors, 20 minutes of free lapping with 4 classes on track and 20 minutes of free lapping with everyone who wanted some more seat time to finish the day off.

The exercises and lapping behind the instructors didn't pose much of a problem for the V. I could feel the disadvantage of the weight compared to other cars in exercises like a short autocross, but I still got the 4th best time (42.xx seconds) out of 15 in our class (1. race built Renault Clio with sub 39 seconds, 2. Porsche 911 Carrera 4S, 3. Caterham). I kept the hood open as much as possible, just to give it as much cooling as possible in between. The free lapping went pretty well for the first 19 minutes, until just before the start of the last lap a dreaded "Rear Differential Overheating, Reduce Speed"-warning came on. Since I wanted to do a cool down lap anyways, I didn't worry too much. When we pulled back into the paddocks, the rear brakes were still fuming, the front looked fine, tough. I ran the whole day in suspension mode sport and Stabilitrak Off (press twice then hold), but I'm not sure if the system still kicked in and applied brakes when the rear stepped out after accelerating hard out of corners.

After about 60 minutes downtime, it was time for the second 20 minutes of lapping. I decided to still push it hard in and out of the corners (where the fun is), but take it easy on the straighter parts of the track. I reached around 150 mph on the Parabolika in the first lapping session but limited myself after that to around 80-90 mph. The rear differential warning came on again shortly before the last lap, so I was pretty happy I could get as much seat time as possible for this 2 day event.

In the end, meeting so many people with all kinds of experience levels and cars on this great track was a lot of fun. I was amazed how well the V handled everything. This thing is fast, even compared to the cars that ran. There was everything imaginable, from Caterhams to Radicals to Formula BMWs to all kind of Porsches (944s, 911s, GT3RSes, etc.) and a large number of Lotuses to F430 Scuderias to BMWs, Renaults, VWs, Nissans (no GT-R) and even a Ford GT. Many were dedicated track cars. Having all of them (well most, about half of the people didn't participated in the last lapping session) run at the same time was truly awesome. Nothing beats having a Scuderia on your ass at the track in and seeing it slowly catch up after accelerating out of the corner. Well, it felt slow even tough it was probably not even close, but it's still awesome to see a four door saloon not being completely outclassed by a $200'000+ car.

Next up for me are the new tires, a rear differential cooler (still debating which one, GM, D3 or W4M), 2 piece Alcon rotors with the DTC-30 pads and probably a small upgrade consisting of CAI, lower pulley, heat exchanger, thermostat, tune and SRP pedals, it's nearly impossible to use regular heel-toe with the stock ones.

Sorry this got so long...

-Chris

garfin
09-12-10, 01:46 PM
I would like to add my 2 cents after spending 2 days with the V at the Hockenheimring.

First I have to say, I would not consider myself an experienced driver (on the street and on the racetrack). As far as racing goes, it basically consists of the 5 days in spent in March with Skip Barber at Sebring (3 day school and 2 day advanced school), racing Spec Miatas, and now the two days in Hockenheim. I feel like I have the theory down pretty well, but I can not comment on practical things like tire pressure, amount of under steer compared to other cars, body roll, etc.

Regarding the tires, I decided to learn from the reports of others on here (like thebigjimsho and garfin), so I went with 42 psi cold front and 40 psi cold in the rear for the two days. Other than that, the car was stock and still on it's first set of pads and tires (8000+ miles). I got a set of 265/305 Bridgestone RE-11 and Hawk DTC-30 pads last week but decided to go with the stock setup on my first track day.

The two days consisted of 1 1/2 days of basic exercises (braking, slalom, figure 8 dry/wet, etc. to get a feel for the car) and learning all corners of the track individually and 1/2 day of lapping. Since there were around 150 cars in total, divided in 10 classes, the 1/2 day of lapping consisted of 20 minutes of driving behind the instructors, 20 minutes of free lapping with 4 classes on track and 20 minutes of free lapping with everyone who wanted some more seat time to finish the day off.

The exercises and lapping behind the instructors didn't pose much of a problem for the V. I could feel the disadvantage of the weight compared to other cars in exercises like a short autocross, but I still got the 4th best time (42.xx seconds) out of 15 in our class (1. race built Renault Clio with sub 39 seconds, 2. Porsche 911 Carrera 4S, 3. Caterham). I kept the hood open as much as possible, just to give it as much cooling as possible in between. The free lapping went pretty well for the first 19 minutes, until just before the start of the last lap a dreaded "Rear Differential Overheating, Reduce Speed"-warning came on. Since I wanted to do a cool down lap anyways, I didn't worry too much. When we pulled back into the paddocks, the rear brakes were still fuming, the front looked fine, tough. I ran the whole day in suspension mode sport and Stabilitrak Off (press twice then hold), but I'm not sure if the system still kicked in and applied brakes when the rear stepped out after accelerating hard out of corners.

After about 60 minutes downtime, it was time for the second 20 minutes of lapping. I decided to still push it hard in and out of the corners (where the fun is), but take it easy on the straighter parts of the track. I reached around 150 mph on the Parabolika in the first lapping session but limited myself after that to around 80-90 mph. The rear differential warning came on again shortly before the last lap, so I was pretty happy I could get as much seat time as possible for this 2 day event.

In the end, meeting so many people with all kinds of experience levels and cars on this great track was a lot of fun. I was amazed how well the V handled everything. This thing is fast, even compared to the cars that ran. There was everything imaginable, from Caterhams to Radicals to Formula BMWs to all kind of Porsches (944s, 911s, GT3RSes, etc.) and a large number of Lotuses to F430 Scuderias to BMWs, Renaults, VWs, Nissans (no GT-R) and even a Ford GT. Many were dedicated track cars. Having all of them (well most, about half of the people didn't participated in the last lapping session) run at the same time was truly awesome. Nothing beats having a Scuderia on your ass at the track in and seeing it slowly catch up after accelerating out of the corner. Well, it felt slow even tough it was probably not even close, but it's still awesome to see a four door saloon not being completely outclassed by a $200'000+ car.

Next up for me are the new tires, a rear differential cooler (still debating which one, GM, D3 or W4M), 2 piece Alcon rotors with the DTC-30 pads and probably a small upgrade consisting of CAI, lower pulley, heat exchanger, thermostat, tune and SRP pedals, it's nearly impossible to use regular heel-toe with the stock ones.

Sorry this got so long...

-Chris

Fantastic write-up!! Thanks for sharing!

It definitely sounds like you had a blast and were certainly on a good learning curve - to the point where you were acquitting yourself very well. :cool:

The more often I read reports like this, the more obvious it seems that being able to realize the full potential of the V is best done on a road course venue where one can appreciate and make use of the acceleration, handling, braking and smoothness, basically all at the same time (i.e. a few laps!)

Congratulations on your participation in such a successful event!!

Best regards,

Elie

chrswk
09-23-10, 03:35 AM
A quick follow up to my previous post, only this time no text, just pictures.

http://c.afeba.be/kthx/BN8F6337.JPG
http://c.afeba.be/kthx/BN8F6953.JPG
http://c.afeba.be/kthx/BN8F7703.JPG
http://c.afeba.be/kthx/BN8F7831.JPG
http://c.afeba.be/kthx/GTRZ0806.JPG
http://c.afeba.be/kthx/GTRZ1090.JPG
http://c.afeba.be/kthx/GTRZ1296.JPG

odla
09-23-10, 07:32 AM
post up the video from the go pro.

chrswk
09-23-10, 07:49 AM
post up the video from the go pro.

I used the wrong settings, it was in the wrong casing, it was in a crappy position and I forgot to record the second session. But here it is:

ACS Hockenheimring 2010-09-10 Part 1 of 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=C2JvrL-gtG0

ACS Hockenheimring 2010-09-10 Part 2 of 2

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bZ1Zb0fzD4w

Z06ified
09-23-10, 08:48 AM
Great pics and vids! Looks like a fun track.

This was the thread I was originally going to reply to, but I couldn't find it. Now that it's back at the top and I could find it again, I figured I would post the link to the new thread I started responding to the OP's original question:

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/210804-took-my-v-track-my-thoughts.html

CruzanTom
09-26-10, 08:22 PM
I have had two trips to the Carolina MotorSports Park in SC. It is a 2.3 mile, 14-turn road course. The V is heavier but has more power than most other cars on the course. If you drive in automatic, watch out for transmission downshifting as you exit corners - easy to get the back end loose. CMSP staff were surprised with the responsiveness of the V throttle and the V's handling.

As for brakes, the V will develop brake fade at moderate driving. Last Friday, after heavy driving, I lost brakes using the stock DOT 3 brake fluid. The weight of the V really punishes the brakes if you drive hard into the turns. After losing brakes, I engine braked-braked to the garage and I bled, drained and replaced with DOT 4.

As for tires, the CMSP staff recommend 40 psi. The stock Michelin Pilot tires have cording issues, especially on the left front, on road courses. I have plenty of tread at center but the outer edge is gone. I was told by someone knowledgeable that this is an issue no matter what car, so it is a Michelin problem, not a V problem. I am buying a set of Bridgestone RE-11 tomorrow. I'll be going back to CMSP as soon as I can schedule it.

chrswk
09-27-10, 05:09 AM
As for brakes, the V will develop brake fade at moderate driving. Last Friday, after heavy driving, I lost brakes using the stock DOT 3 brake fluid. The weight of the V really punishes the brakes if you drive hard into the turns. After losing brakes, I engine braked-braked to the garage and I bled, drained and replaced with DOT 4.

Whoa, I'm glad nothing happened. Loosing the brakes usually ends in disaster. I will replace the brake fluid with Castrol SRF as soon as I receive the Alcon rotors and steel brake lines.

Fubar75207
10-07-10, 11:42 PM
To the OP, I love this car as if it were still day one, more-so than many of the sports cars I have owned, but if you've driven any car under 3400lbs on track, you will not like how the V handles on a road circuit. It's capable of some very respectable times but not repeatedly without digging into your wallet for consumables. Like many have already mentioned, it's too heavy for HPDE use. If you don't have the optional diff cooler forget it. Those that don't have the diff cooler and haven't experienced any issues are simply not driving the car very hard. That being said it's still a blast to drive on track as any car is.


I agree the 45lbs of tire pressure sounds like a bad idea but I can honestly say I've never tried it. As for the trans cooler, I disagree. I was very cognizant of trans temp and it stayed in an acceptable range. The motor was a different story.

When I'm right, I'm right but when I'm wrong I admit it (sometimes). I felt compelled to update my original reply and concede that the CTS-V probably needs the dif cooler for track days. My first track day with the V, I was one of two people running the track and I guess I made a lot of short sessions. I recently went to another track event where the track was in heavy use, so I ran my full 30 minutes when it was my session. It the second scenario my trans temp alert came on multiple times. The diff cooler is a 'must' for me in the future.

ekyub
10-08-10, 12:17 AM
I'm heading to our local CTS-V invitational trackday at MSR Houston on October 16th. Should be fun.

StoopidSavant
10-08-10, 08:56 AM
45 psig is not out of the question. It states on page 5-74 in the 2009 Owner's Manual:

High-Speed Operation

If your vehicle has 235/50ZR18, 255/40ZR19 or
285/35ZR19 size tires, they will require inflation
pressure adjustment when driving your vehicle at speeds
of 100 mph (160 km/h) or higher. Set the cold inflation
pressure to the maximum inflation pressure shown on the
tire sidewall, or 44 psi (300 kPa), whichever is lower. See
the example following. When you end this high-speed
driving, return the tires to the cold tire inflation pressure
shown on the Tire and Loading Information label. See
Loading the Vehicle on page 4-21 and Inflation - Tire
Pressure on page 5-72.
Example:
You will find the maximum load and inflation pressure
molded on the tire’s sidewall, in small letters, near
the rim flange. It will read something like this: Maximum
load 690 kg (1521 lbs) 300 kPa (44 psi) Max. Press.
For this example, you would set the inflation pressure for
high-speed driving at 44 psi (300 kPa).

Z06ified
10-08-10, 09:54 AM
45 psig is not out of the question. It states on page 5-74 in the 2009 Owner's Manual:

High-Speed Operation

If your vehicle has 235/50ZR18, 255/40ZR19 or
285/35ZR19 size tires, they will require inflation
pressure adjustment when driving your vehicle at speeds
of 100 mph (160 km/h) or higher. Set the cold inflation
pressure to the maximum inflation pressure shown on the
tire sidewall, or 44 psi (300 kPa), whichever is lower. See
the example following. When you end this high-speed
driving, return the tires to the cold tire inflation pressure
shown on the Tire and Loading Information label. See
Loading the Vehicle on page 4-21 and Inflation - Tire
Pressure on page 5-72.
Example:
You will find the maximum load and inflation pressure
molded on the tire’s sidewall, in small letters, near
the rim flange. It will read something like this: Maximum
load 690 kg (1521 lbs) 300 kPa (44 psi) Max. Press.
For this example, you would set the inflation pressure for
high-speed driving at 44 psi (300 kPa).

I saw that in the manual too, and I think the manual is crazy, if they're talking about cold tire pressure. 44psi cold will equate to about 53-55 psi hot, which exceeds the maximum pressure rating of the tire. That much pressure will also cause a scary lack of grip and some very squirly handling.

If they're talking about 44 psi hot, then that's OK as a MAX, but I don't think they are.

ErikH
10-09-10, 12:39 AM
Definitely recommend a diff cooler and DOT4 for track days- I ran both at the track. Ran Willow Springs 5ea x 30min sessions with Open Track Racing in September and no issues with the diff or brake fade. Multiple Porsche drivers stopped by after sessions to see what I was driving because they didn't like being passed by a 4 dr on the track! You will definitely feel the weight of the car through the tighter turns=slower, but you reel them in nicely everywhere else. Brakes/braking distance is as good as any of the 911s and M3s I ran with out there. I tried several tire pressures and liked 36psi hot. The PS2s are certainly scrubbed but held in there- I was impressed about their traction for a street tire, never got that greasy feeling. May want to look into a CGLock-I have the Recaro's but I felt that wasn't enough several times so I appreciated the ability to lock myself down into the seat. Have fun and keep the shiny side up!

garfin
10-09-10, 11:02 AM
Definitely recommend a diff cooler and DOT4 for track days- I ran both at the track. Ran Willow Springs 5ea x 30min sessions with Open Track Racing in September and no issues with the diff or brake fade. Multiple Porsche drivers stopped by after sessions to see what I was driving because they didn't like being passed by a 4 dr on the track! You will definitely feel the weight of the car through the tighter turns=slower, but you reel them in nicely everywhere else. Brakes/braking distance is as good as any of the 911s and M3s I ran with out there. I tried several tire pressures and liked 36psi hot. The PS2s are certainly scrubbed but held in there- I was impressed about their traction for a street tire, never got that greasy feeling. May want to look into a CGLock-I have the Recaro's but I felt that wasn't enough several times so I appreciated the ability to lock myself down into the seat. Have fun and keep the shiny side up!

Sounds like you had a fantastic day! I would definitely endorse the idea of installing a CG Lock as well to help keep you in the proper driving position. I'm used to the 5 pt. harness that was in my Camaro and this is probably is the best arrangement available without chopping up your interior!

I've found an inexpensive alternative to DOT 4 brake fluid - that being Ford (Motorcraft) Heavy-Duty DOT 3. This fluid has a higher dry boiling point (550 degrees) than most DOT 4 fluids, but a slightly lower wet boiling point (290). The trick is to not let this fluid remain in your system for too long. I've never had a problem with brake fade or boiled fluid in 11 years of lapping with using this fluid, bleeding the system at the beginning of each season and putting fresh fluid in. Interestingly enough, DOT 4 fluid tends to absorb moisture (thereby lowering the fluid's boiling point) at a faster rate than DOT 3 fluid, so the need to swap out your brake fluid frequently is pretty well a wash between the Ford DOT 3 and DOT 4. The good news is that the Ford DOT 3 is priced typically as a regular DOT 3 fluid and will do a great job for those of us who participate in 2-3 lapping events each season.

Best regards,

Elie

thebigjimsho
10-15-10, 08:06 PM
Sounds like you had a fantastic day! I would definitely endorse the idea of installing a CG Lock as well to help keep you in the proper driving position. I'm used to the 5 pt. harness that was in my Camaro and this is probably is the best arrangement available without chopping up your interior!

I've found an inexpensive alternative to DOT 4 brake fluid - that being Ford (Motorcraft) Heavy-Duty DOT 3. This fluid has a higher dry boiling point (550 degrees) than most DOT 4 fluids, but a slightly lower wet boiling point (290). The trick is to not let this fluid remain in your system for too long. I've never had a problem with brake fade or boiled fluid in 11 years of lapping with using this fluid, bleeding the system at the beginning of each season and putting fresh fluid in. Interestingly enough, DOT 4 fluid tends to absorb moisture (thereby lowering the fluid's boiling point) at a faster rate than DOT 3 fluid, so the need to swap out your brake fluid frequently is pretty well a wash between the Ford DOT 3 and DOT 4. The good news is that the Ford DOT 3 is priced typically as a regular DOT 3 fluid and will do a great job for those of us who participate in 2-3 lapping events each season.

Best regards,

Elie
I still have a can of unopened Motorcraft DOT3 I bought for my SHO 11+ years ago. Unopened is a loose term. The cap has never come off but it's about to by the rust build-up around the neck of the bottle. But it was a good fluid back in the day. On a $70k world beating sports sedan? $13 for a half liter bottle of Motul 600 is just fine for me...

garfin
10-15-10, 10:11 PM
I still have a can of unopened Motorcraft DOT3 I bought for my SHO 11+ years ago. Unopened is a loose term. The cap has never come off but it's about to by the rust build-up around the neck of the bottle. But it was a good fluid back in the day. On a $70k world beating sports sedan? $13 for a half liter bottle of Motul 600 is just fine for me...

I definitely agree! So... I gotta ask... just out of curiosity... is that unopened can metal or plastic? Given the vintage, I'm guessin' that it's metal. I'm definitetly thinkin' that you and I are from the same focus and generation... and I don't trust the plastic bottles that we get now. The old metal cans were great for preventing moisture osmosis, the plastic bottles, not so much.

Bottom line is that we gotta swap our brake fluid at least at the beginning of the season, and maybe 1/2 way through the season as well, depending on how often we track our cars. Maybe even after each event, depending on how hard we are on the brakes.

Best regards,

Elie

thebigjimsho
10-15-10, 10:27 PM
I definitely agree! So... I gotta ask... just out of curiosity... is that unopened can metal or plastic? Given the vintage, I'm guessin' that it's metal. I'm definitetly thinkin' that you and I are from the same focus and generation... and I don't trust the plastic bottles that we get now. The old metal cans were great for preventing moisture osmosis, the plastic bottles, not so much.

Bottom line is that we gotta swap our brake fluid at least at the beginning of the season, and maybe 1/2 way through the season as well, depending on how often we track our cars. Maybe even after each event, depending on how hard we are on the brakes.

Best regards,

Elie
Metal can, mah man...

garfin
10-15-10, 10:45 PM
Metal can, mah man...

Thanks! Thought that might be the case... just not too sure if I'd be usin' the stuff in that particular can at this stage of the game.. LOL!

Best regards,

Elie

dvandentop
10-16-10, 12:23 PM
castrol srf in my vette here, only have to worry about bleeding once a year.

baabootoo
10-17-10, 12:26 AM
I just got back from Road America Friday and had no issues at all; other than stalling from running low on gas! My differential never got above 210, but it was in the 50s that day too. The brakes worked fine through 4 hard sessions. I started the tires at 43F/40R COLD but I'm sure they went up a bit from the day heating up. After the last lapping session they were at 53F/48R HOT. I used to get some slide at 40/40 COLD, so I'll try 44/44 next time. They stuck like glue too! I had a C5 Corvette, who was behind me tell me that I lifted the RR tire off the ground on the first right hander after the long 3000' front straight. He said it went up more than once and had no doubts. Next up for me is to lower that high back end and a heavier anti-sway bar. That is the ONLY thing that bothered me all day; and the $8.40/gallon of gas!!!! These cars are solid for running hard!

CruzanTom
10-17-10, 09:49 PM
I have had my 09 V on the track for 4 days. This past weekend I blew by every 350Z and Corvette that were in my group. I kept getting comments like: "I can't believe a Cadillac went by me that fast" and "I tried but couldn't catch you" were common.

The V is heavy. I boiled the stock DOT 3 brake fluid on my second trip and replaced it with ATE Blue DOT 4. The Michelin Pilot Tires do not do well on a road course (excessive wear on outside of front tires). I replaced my front tires with Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Pole Position and I am doing much better.

Gas milage on the track is about 4.5 mpg.

I think I am hooked.

garfin
10-17-10, 10:16 PM
I have had my 09 V on the track for 4 days.

I think I am hooked.

I took you that many lapping days to get hooked?!? LOL! :cool2:

Best regards,

Elie

thebigjimsho
10-18-10, 12:03 AM
I have had my 09 V on the track for 4 days. This past weekend I blew by every 350Z and Corvette that were in my group. I kept getting comments like: "I can't believe a Cadillac went by me that fast" and "I tried but couldn't catch you" were common.

The V is heavy. I boiled the stock DOT 3 brake fluid on my second trip and replaced it with ATE Blue DOT 4. The Michelin Pilot Tires do not do well on a road course (excessive wear on outside of front tires). I replaced my front tires with Bridgestone Potenza RE050A Pole Position and I am doing much better.

Gas milage on the track is about 4.5 mpg.

I think I am hooked.My V had less tire wear when running 45psi hot in the front with 40psi hot in the rear...

baabootoo
10-18-10, 01:39 PM
My V had less tire wear when running 45psi hot in the front with 40psi hot in the rear...

Mine too. When I tried 30-something, they wore fast.

thebigjimsho
10-21-10, 10:35 AM
http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2241/2287429/22963540/392797841.jpg

MikeV
10-22-10, 01:37 PM
I saw that in the manual too, and I think the manual is crazy, if they're talking about cold tire pressure. 44psi cold will equate to about 53-55 psi hot, which exceeds the maximum pressure rating of the tire. That much pressure will also cause a scary lack of grip and some very squirly handling.

If they're talking about 44 psi hot, then that's OK as a MAX, but I don't think they are.

FYI, max pressure as listed on the tire sidewall is max COLD. It accounts for increase in temp as tire heats up. Plus there is a LARGE safety factor built in there. Engineers don't trust the general public who are mostly idiots.

- Former automotive engineer

jenlain
02-13-12, 12:02 AM
Reviving an old thread since invites are starting to go out for HPDEs later this season. Would like to see some Vs at the track this year, as I will be taking delivery of my vagon shortly (currently driving an E90 BMW that saw plenty of track time last season).

Since there are no Caddy-specific events near me, I plan to tag along with the several BMWCCA, PCA, and PBoC events at Putnam, Mid-Ohio, Barber, and Road America this year. Have also heard great things about Road Atlanta, so may try to take a trip there as well. Anyone else planning to head to the track this year?

For those who have not gone to the track, its a great learning experience and a fun way to meet new people. The events sponsored by the CCA and PCA tend to be very safe and well-run.

M5eater
02-13-12, 08:52 AM
to do some more thread revival-- anyone know what the typical LS wet-sump is capable of in terms of lateral G's before it starts to suck dry air?

I know the E90's is 1.4, and that's with two pickup tubes.

thebigjimsho
02-13-12, 09:31 AM
I hope it's more than 1.4...








http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2241/2287429/22963540/398095248.jpg

M5eater
02-13-12, 09:43 AM
yeah... I'm thinking it's not, GM tells the regular vette guys to put another quart in when playing around, and you're approaching Z06 levels of grip. Grand sports with the plain LS3 come with a dry sump these days..

ekyub
02-13-12, 09:43 AM
Does upgrading brake fluid and installing the optional diff cooler void the warranty?

M5eater
02-13-12, 10:06 AM
Brake fluid? No.

Optional diff cooler? probally not, but I'd ask.

ekyub
02-13-12, 10:11 AM
Brake fluid? No.

Optional diff cooler? probally not, but I'd ask.

Thank you! Cheers.

Cts-vX6mZR1
02-13-12, 11:30 AM
I track my cars regularly. The v is a beast on the track with excellent steering, stability, breaks, and of course power. I track my ZR1 and X6M as well. Of course I feel the weight of the car, but it does not spoil the fun and the control of the car.

veloce
02-13-12, 01:28 PM
You really can't understand how good these cars perform untill you get them on the track . I went to the Cadillac Driving Academy in Oct of 2011 at Spring Mtn. Raceway in Nevada. They had great Q&A sesssions and were available all day to answer q"s. Here's what they said they did to track these cars all day long with no problems. 1. Put in High Temp. Brake Fluid.. 2. Two Piece Rotors. 3. Rear Diff Cooler. Thats it ! BTW during lapping one of my instructors would say to me " now rotate the car " I would highly recomend the Cadillac Driving Academy to anyone. The price and school can't be beat. Jeff

thebigjimsho
02-13-12, 01:33 PM
yeah... I'm thinking it's not, GM tells the regular vette guys to put another quart in when playing around, and you're approaching Z06 levels of grip. Grand sports with the plain LS3 come with a dry sump these days..I've always added between .5-1 quart when I'm on the road courses...

M5eater
02-13-12, 01:40 PM
I've always added between .5-1 quart when I'm on the road courses...
Might be fine with just a quart, I just don't know.
Do you bother with autocross? I thought about it, but I don't think I've seen more than 1.1, and usually you're only on there for 2 minuites at a time..

thebigjimsho
02-15-12, 10:14 PM
I've autocrossed quite a bit. The V is no going to be a top competitor, but you'll know more about your car in a safe environment than anyplace else.

Cabretti
02-15-12, 11:00 PM
Very cool thread. BigJim...Monticello looks really nice.

thebigjimsho
02-15-12, 11:02 PM
It IS really nice...

Cabretti
02-15-12, 11:11 PM
Waterford Hills not so much. You've been there too I see. I haven't even seen the place in 20 years. How about Mid Ohio or anything else around Michigan Ohio. Graatan? That cute little track in New Haven....forget the name.

I live near MIS and Irish Hills Mi.

M5eater
02-16-12, 07:39 AM
I've autocrossed quite a bit. The V is no going to be a top competitor, but you'll know more about your car in a safe environment than anyplace else.
I was talking about bothering to top off with another .5-1quart of oil :P

I autocross almost every opportunity I can, if for any reason, it's because usually I'm the only Cadillac *and* midsized 4300lb sedan there. Always good for a laugh.

thebigjimsho
02-16-12, 09:59 AM
Waterford Hills not so much. You've been there too I see. I haven't even seen the place in 20 years. How about Mid Ohio or anything else around Michigan Ohio. Graatan? That cute little track in New Haven....forget the name.

I live near MIS and Irish Hills Mi.

My '09 was an automatic around Waterford Hills. 3rd gear only. Eh, it was still fun and the people there are great.

Grattan is a lot of fun and very technical.

I was supposed to run at GingerMan before but had to cancel the trip. I've heard its excellent...

----------



I was talking about bothering to top off with another .5-1quart of oil :P

I autocross almost every opportunity I can, if for any reason, it's because usually I'm the only Cadillac *and* midsized 4300lb sedan there. Always good for a laugh.

I usually add at the autocross. I spun a bearing in my SHO from oil starvation at an autocross.

M5eater
02-16-12, 10:32 AM
I usually add at the autocross. I spun a bearing in my SHO from oil starvation at an autocross.

Thanks, I'll top it off with a half a quart when I go.
They're finnaly giving the SHO a new front fascia and 400HP I hear. btw... now only if they'd give it proper brakes and a manual so you can at least toss it around a bit to overcome that boat-like suspension.

Cabretti
02-16-12, 11:37 AM
My '09 was an automatic around Waterford Hills. 3rd gear only. Eh, it was still fun and the people there are great.

Grattan is a lot of fun and very technical.

I was supposed to run at GingerMan before but had to cancel the trip. I've heard its excellent...

----------



I usually add at the autocross. I spun a bearing in my SHO from oil starvation at an autocross.



You have been there and done that Jim. I'm impressed. I won't ask you to give advice to new guys wanting to get involved but I am going to look into it. I have no competitive track experience other than fairly extensive drag racing experience. I also worked for a NHRA Prostock team for three years and I do know how to handle myself around race tracks, racers, and pits etc.

I have done ride alongs at MIS in stock cars and this year am planning a full day driving experience/school. Other than that I will contact the raceways and get their requirements.

Now for the fun part. Any cool horror stories? Ya know. The guy that came out to the track with his new overpowered sedan and puts it in the wall or worse?

:bonkers:

thebigjimsho
02-16-12, 12:00 PM
Yeah, and of all places, Waterford Hills. It was with the SHO owners group and it was a guy who was in a 350Z. It was his first in the Z as he graduated from an SHO. It was on the last turn on the track, which is a long sweeper. He got his outside tires off and tried to get it back on track. Instead of going straight off, correcting was a losing battle half on grass/dirt. The Z never went fully off but once it got back on track, it was 45 degrees from straight and the renewed grip on asphalt sent him nose first into the inner wall.

It was a simple mistake but it shows you can be bit anywhere if you forget and follow a natural instinct to save a car going off.

----------

And that accident was at the start/finish line and they have a viewing tower there. I actually saw it happen right below me. In fact, I was talking to his girlfriend when it happened.

----------

There was also a double dose of badness at V-Day I at Summit Point Shenandoah back in '08. A damp track with a slight kink at the top of a hill on the back straight claimed 2 poor V owners...

Cabretti
02-16-12, 12:05 PM
Little dose of reality. Thanks Jim.

thebigjimsho
02-16-12, 12:06 PM
Anytime I see bad things at the track, there was usually some fatal flaw. If you have a good instructor, many of those mistakes can be taught to avoid.

jenlain
02-16-12, 02:44 PM
Now for the fun part. Any cool horror stories? Ya know. The guy that came out to the track with his new overpowered sedan and puts it in the wall or worse?

:bonkers:

Have seen very few issues at the track and most events are very safely run. The really new drivers aren't usually as much of a problem as those who have been to a few events and think they are experts. The only issues I saw this year were at Barber on a very cold day. Very technical track that requires precise braking. There were crashes in several of our track sessions. Most could be avoided if drivers slowed down or pulled into the hot pit for a moment to collect their thoughts before getting back onto the track.

jessrayo
04-09-12, 06:56 PM
I just did a track day at Eagles Canyon Raceway and was a little disappointed in the durrability of the Cadillac. On the positive there was not a car on street legal tires that was even close to Caddy on a lap time. And in defense of this car, the track is brutal. All of the straights are 2000ft or less and most of the turns are hairpin. Alot of the brake zones are on downhills just to make it more interesting. I had four 30 minute sessions and only stayed on the track for one complete session, the other 3 ended in brake failure, the only session I completed was with "fresh" Motul 660 brake fluid and even then I had the temp light on for the rear diff the last laps. My car is boosted to 571 rwhp but stock brakes could not handle a difficult track. Plus I completely destroyed the PS2 rears drifting out of most of the corners in competition mode. It was a very expensive weekend but fun. If I ever run that track again I will need a diff cooler, race pads, fresh brake fluid and probably track tires just to further rub salt in the Porsche drivers wounds.

ctsvracingalan
04-09-12, 09:07 PM
I have been on track for over 3 years with my V still going strong, I post videos at CTSVRacing.com. If you have any questions feel free to contact me. I can tell you our cars do really well on track but you do need to some mod.

Alan@CTSVRacing.com

thebigjimsho
04-10-12, 08:24 AM
The car is heavy and the brakes are enormous. The stress on them is huge. I think, much more than the V1, these brakes need to have fresh fluid and proper pads if you're on a tight track.

I bought my TSWs for under $1000, delivered. Used track tires run me under $100 per, delivered. MUCH CHEAPER in the long run...

Z06ified
04-10-12, 09:07 AM
I just did a track day at Eagles Canyon Raceway and was a little disappointed in the durrability of the Cadillac. I had four 30 minute sessions and only stayed on the track for one complete session, the other 3 ended in brake failure, the only session I completed was with "fresh" Motul 660 brake fluid...

In defense of the V, the owner's manual does state that you should replace the brake fluid with a higher boiling point type if you intend to track the car, which is in fact needed as you saw first hand (changing to Motul 660 solved the problem). Since it is documented in the owner's manual, I wouldn't fault the car for this as a durability issue.


and even then I had the temp light on for the rear diff the last laps.

This one I give you as a durability issue, and this one pisses me off too. The car should have come from the factory with a diff cooler. No question. GM screwed up here. Especially now that the Camaro ZL1 has one, and even the European CTS-V's have them.


Plus I completely destroyed the PS2 rears drifting out of most of the corners in competition mode.

Again, not the fault of the car. Drifting can be fun, and it is relatively easy to do in the V, but it's not the fastest way around the track, and it gets expensive with the rear tires quickly. You gotta pay to play (especially with a 4,200 lb. luxury car)!


...just to further rub salt in the Porsche drivers wounds. LOL - I like the way you roll!