: Yet another tire opinion question



rnkath08
09-05-10, 08:32 AM
Time for new sneakers. I've gone to three tire shops...one was clueless, the other two had two different recommendations. I know nothing of either tire. My goal was a most of the year, more durable than sport yet still performance-able, tire that would last a bit. One store suggested Bridgestone Potenza the other Handcook (never heard of them) and the name was funny, started with a V....anyone have any thoughts or knowledge of either?

CTBB
09-05-10, 10:28 AM
I have Bridgestone Potenza 960AS model on my Subaru SVX and have been very happy with them. About 20K miles on them. A bit noisy, but excellent handling characteristics. Uni-directional. No experience with them on anything as heavy as the STS.. Let us know what you think!

Glenn

kschwed
09-05-10, 12:13 PM
Hankooks aren't that great of a tire. As far as the Potenzas are concerned, my girlfriend just had them installed on her Toyota Carolla and they are noisier than anything I've heard before. IMHO, they are deafening. If you want a tire that's not quite as expensive as the Michelins or Pirelli's, take a look at Yokohama. I had the Yokohama Advan S.4 installed on my STS a few months ago and they're great. Excellent handling, quiet, affordable, etc.

KRSTS
09-05-10, 12:18 PM
I just put Yokohama Avid Envigors from Tire Rack on mine after much research. Only 500 miles so far, but far far superior to the OEM Michelins. These are also omni directional. Went through one downpour and they stuck like glue. So far very pleased. Little noisier that some I guess, but quieter than the Michelins.:)

EChas3
09-05-10, 09:00 PM
I really like my Conti DWS but you'll find a lot of opinions. I think every driver has their own priorities. Are you willing to trade noise for treadlife? How about ride for handling? What's your climate & price range?

Ain't it fun?

KRSTS
09-05-10, 10:35 PM
I really like my Conti DWS but you'll find a lot of opinions. I think every driver has their own priorities. Are you willing to trade noise for treadlife? How about ride for handling? What's your climate & price range?

Ain't it fun?l

The only concensus seems to be that the OEM Michelins suck.

rnkath08
09-05-10, 11:16 PM
well, I knew I hated the OEMs, don't want a ton of noise, do want handling and would like better life than the oems offered. I was hoping to come in under $800 for the four tires, and planned to keep the staggered sizes (one place told me to go to one size and rotate...I said the rims are staggered too, the guy said "that's okay"..um, nope)
so will try to find a quote and a look see on the Yokohamas to see what reviews are out there as well as sizes.
the staggered sizes do severely restrict choice, kind of suprized me!
Kath

caddyfat2
09-06-10, 12:04 AM
try www.tires-easy.com

EChas3
09-06-10, 12:07 PM
If you've got the 18" wheels, they are not staggered. I went the same all around to be able to rotate them. The 17" wheels are staggered if the OEM tires were staggered, but it's only 1/2" (I think).

For that price installed, I'd urge you to check out Continental's. Better ride and not much sacrifice of handling. Quiet but I expect them to wear faster. Make sure your installer uses Hunter Roadforce balancing equipment.

kschwed
09-06-10, 12:31 PM
The 17" rims on the '06 V6 arent staggered I dont think. My 06 came with staggered OEM's, but I replaced with the same size all around.

rnkath08
09-06-10, 01:24 PM
I have the sts v8 with 17 inch staggered, both wheels and rims are staggered sized. I actually consulted my owners manual and looked at the tires before I'd left the house to be sure I knew what I was out looking for.

kschwed
09-07-10, 01:29 AM
Well, my 06 V6 1SC had R17's on front and rear stock.

MacMuse
09-07-10, 12:28 PM
Here's a link to tirerack.com that shows the default tires for an '06 STS4. yes, it's just showing 235/50R17 on all 4, but it's a good starting point for the discussion...

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?filtering=true&width=235/&ratio=50&diameter=17&autoMake=Cadillac&autoYear=2006&autoModel=STS%20V8%20AWD&autoModClar=&sortCode=49890&tireIndex=0

For tire durability, check the number shown on the 'UTQG' line. Here's the Kumho entry: UTQG: 600 A A. That number (600 is pretty high) is a government defined standardized estimation on the durability of the tread for that tire. The letter ratings cover Traction & Temperature ratings. The 'A' for traction is the second highest rating. I prefer 'AA' in that middle value for the traction rating to go with our heavy sports car and my preference for high speed on-ramps.

For the treadwear number I would look for anything 400 and higher. The number replaces the old method of rating durability by months or miles. Instead of targeting a mileage with your tires, just expect that tires with higher numbers will last longer under the same driving conditions as their lower rated counterparts. A 320 tire may be just as great for the first year compared to a 500 tire, but don't expect to get that extra 6 months or year at then end of its life compared to the 500 tire.

You'll see EChas3's ContiDWS come in quite high (the link is pre-sorted by UTQG value, so the Conti's should show third), and my personal favorite the Michilen Pilot Sport A/S Plus at the 4 slot.

You can change the tire sizes, even specifying a staggered setup, by clicking the 'change' link in the red line just above the first listed tire.

Have Fun!

rnkath08
09-07-10, 09:57 PM
thanks! so far buying the tires is the least fun thing I've done!!! LOL, the zippy mods are way more fun..I do like to drive it like I stole it when the opportunity presents but I didn't want something so high performance that I melt them away in one summer. I really did hate the Mich Pilot's that it came with, so all I knew for sure is to look elsewhere, and I just didn't agree with going to the same all the way around. Each to his-or her ; ) own

kschwed, just for giggles you might want to doublecheck your book and see if your rims aren't 1/2 inch off as well....ya just never know what surprizes may lurk. I have the 1sc pkg as well, just a bigger engine.

Force-1
09-07-10, 11:08 PM
If you've got the 18" wheels, they are not staggered. I went the same all around to be able to rotate them. The 17" wheels are staggered if the OEM tires were staggered, but it's only 1/2" (I think).

For that price installed, I'd urge you to check out Continental's. Better ride and not much sacrifice of handling. Quiet but I expect them to wear faster. Make sure your installer uses Hunter Roadforce balancing equipment.

:hmm: I have factory 18" wheels, and they are staggered.

doowap57
09-07-10, 11:19 PM
Take a LOOK at Tirerack.com, you can shop by manufacturer, and other
headings, BUT, You WILL need to know what size you are looking for.
as all manufacturers DO NOT MAKE SOME SIZES for our cars.
i.e. Goodyear, does not make a type, or size for my 2005 STS V8 !
Good Luck ! Have Fun ! :cool2:

EChas3
09-08-10, 12:37 AM
:hmm: I have factory 18" wheels, and they are staggered.

2006 OEM 18" - Tires, yes. Wheels, no.

kschwed
09-08-10, 02:07 AM
Here's a link to tirerack.com that shows the default tires for an '06 STS4. yes, it's just showing 235/50R17 on all 4, but it's a good starting point for the discussion...

http://www.tirerack.com/tires/TireSearchResults.jsp?filtering=true&width=235/&ratio=50&diameter=17&autoMake=Cadillac&autoYear=2006&autoModel=STS%20V8%20AWD&autoModClar=&sortCode=49890&tireIndex=0

For tire durability, check the number shown on the 'UTQG' line. Here's the Kumho entry: UTQG: 600 A A. That number (600 is pretty high) is a government defined standardized estimation on the durability of the tread for that tire. The letter ratings cover Traction & Temperature ratings. The 'A' for traction is the second highest rating. I prefer 'AA' in that middle value for the traction rating to go with our heavy sports car and my preference for high speed on-ramps.

For the treadwear number I would look for anything 400 and higher. The number replaces the old method of rating durability by months or miles. Instead of targeting a mileage with your tires, just expect that tires with higher numbers will last longer under the same driving conditions as their lower rated counterparts. A 320 tire may be just as great for the first year compared to a 500 tire, but don't expect to get that extra 6 months or year at then end of its life compared to the 500 tire.

You'll see EChas3's ContiDWS come in quite high (the link is pre-sorted by UTQG value, so the Conti's should show third), and my personal favorite the Michilen Pilot Sport A/S Plus at the 4 slot.

You can change the tire sizes, even specifying a staggered setup, by clicking the 'change' link in the red line just above the first listed tire.

Have Fun!

That UTQG number rating is only relative to that same brand... if my memory serves me correctly. It cant really be compared across brands.

Force-1
09-08-10, 08:17 AM
Per TireRack


Treadwear Grades

UTQG Treadwear Grades are based on actual road use in which the test tire is run in a vehicle convoy along with standardized Course Monitoring Tires. The vehicle repeatedly runs a prescribed 400-mile test loop in West Texas for a total of 7,200 miles. The vehicle can have its alignment set, air pressure checked and tires rotated every 800 miles. The test tire's and the Monitoring Tire's wear are measured during and at the conclusion of the test. The tire manufacturers then assign a Treadwear Grade based on the observed wear rates. The Course Monitoring Tire is assigned a grade and the test tire receives a grade indicating its relative treadwear. A grade of 100 would indicate that the tire tread would last as long as the test tire, 200 would indicate the tread would last twice as long, 300 would indicate three times as long, etc.

The problem with UTQG Treadwear Grades is that they are open to some interpretation on the part of the tire manufacturer because they are assigned after the tire has only experienced a little treadwear as it runs the 7,200 miles. This means that the tire manufacturers need to extrapolate their raw wear data when they are assigning Treadwear Grades, and that their grades can to some extent reflect how conservative or optimistic their marketing department is. Typically, comparing the Treadwear Grades of tire lines within a single brand is somewhat helpful, while attempting to compare the grades between different brands is not as helpful.

caddyfat2
09-08-10, 11:04 AM
:hmm: I have factory 18" wheels, and they are staggered.

Me too!!!

jimmbo
09-08-10, 08:27 PM
I really like my Conti DWS but you'll find a lot of opinions. I think every driver has their own priorities. Are you willing to trade noise for treadlife? How about ride for handling? What's your climate & price range?

Ain't it fun?

In another post you said the ride was softer over the Michelins taking away what I had called the "oxcart on wooden wheels" ride. How noticable is the diff?

stevenriz
09-09-10, 09:19 AM
My 18's are staggered as well. I just put Michelin AS Sports about 20k miles ago. Still great tread but with the staggered tires I cannot rotate them. Although when I bought the car, the dealer rotated them and I only noticed when I went to rotate them that they were different sizes. I had no issues that I could tell when the rears were on the front and vice versa. I have read posts where people would take the larger rears and put them all around but another poster said our speed might be off because they are shorter tires then the front or something like that so I just went with OEM sizes. How does one rotate?? I was going to rotate right to left and back. Not the entire wheel, I was going to dismount the tires and remount them on the wheel so the direction stays the same. Is it worth the trouble??

EChas3
09-09-10, 11:42 PM
In another post you said the ride was softer over the Michelins taking away what I had called the "oxcart on wooden wheels" ride. How noticable is the diff?

I'm very happy. I run 31PSI Front & 29PSI Rear on the DWS 235/50R18's. The ride is still firm but it rarely 'crashes' over poor expansion joints like it used to with regularity. Due to AWD, my OEM's were the MXM; hard, noisy & slick when wet. I'm convinced Michelin got complacent with many of their designs.

My wife chose Conti's Summer tire (DW 235/50R17) on her RWD and will change to her Blizzaks in two months. Hers almost floats in comparison to mine but it's got special Hertz suspension RPO's (deletes/lighter sway bars, etc?)

AllWheelEric
09-10-10, 05:31 PM
I'm running 4 of the slightly shorter 255/45/18 DWS. They are noticeably more pliable and quieter than the OEM tires. They have much, much better traction on wet roads.

I recently got to drive the new CTS-V at Monicello race track in the rain. It has different Michelin tires, and they had amazing grip in the rain, so I won't condemn all Michelins. However, whatever came on my AWD STS was for the birds.

rnkath08
09-10-10, 10:46 PM
for me, tire shopping has been as much fun as a root canal...everything else has been way more fun...ughhhhhhh
and I don't plan to rotate. I did like the unidirectional and the staggered size...EChas and I have the same ride...why don't all companies make all four tires...much like my "why don't Hawks make rear pads?" quandry...even that was easier to decide than sneakers!!

RippyPartsDept
09-10-10, 10:59 PM
I have read posts where people would take the larger rears and put them all around but another poster said our speed might be off because they are shorter tires then the front or something like that so I just went with OEM sizes.

the overall total diameter of the wheel+tire is the same on the 'staggered' setups - just the width of the tire is different so there would be no speedo issues in putting the same size tire on all four wheels (your choice to go with the wider tire or not)

as for the rotations left<->right is the only option if you keep the staggered sized tires (unless you have directionals)
and as i was reminded in another thread (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-sts-forum-2005-through-2010/208798-d3-lowering-springs-before-after-pictures.html#post2358260) today:
Why tolerate any loss of traction? Run 'em and replace 'em.

jedhead
09-11-10, 02:46 AM
I have Continental DSW on my STS-V. The rear tires where showing the wear bars at 12,500 miles and I had them replaced at 65% off. I made the argument since the tires had a wear out warranty of 50K miles, but I cannot rotate the tires because of the staggered wheel sizes. I felt that I should have them prorated. The tire store agreed and I bought a new set. I think the tires perform well for all season and better in every way over the OEM Pirelli Summer run flats. The front tires are like new and I think they will make the 50k warranty. I hope they will pro rate the rears at the next 12K miles when they will be worn out again. I chose these Continental because they had a wear out warranty, I figured the tires would wear fairly fast coping with horsepower of the LC3 engine.

Bob

stevenriz
09-27-10, 11:07 AM
found this in my 2005 manual... presumably this is the ok to have the larger size on all 4 wheels???

Tire Inspection and Rotation
Tire rotation is not recommended if your vehicle has the
following performance tire combinations:
• P235/50R17 95V size tires on the front wheels and
P255/45R17 98V size tires on the rear wheels.
• P235/50R18 97W size tires on the front wheels and
P255/45R18 99W size tires on the rear wheels.
Different tire sizes front to rear should not be rotated.
Each tire and wheel should be used only in the position
it is in.
Tire rotation is recommended if your vehicle is equipped
with P235/50R17 95S size tires on all four wheel
positions or 255/45ZR18 99Y size tires on all four
wheel positions. These tires should be rotated every
5,000 to 8,000 miles (8 000 to 13 000 km)
Any time you notice unusual wear, rotate your tires as
soon as possible and check wheel alignment. Also
check for damaged tires or wheels. See When It Is Time
for New Tires on page 5-65 and Wheel Replacement
on page 5-68 for more information.

DBK81
09-27-10, 03:12 PM
I have these on my '06 STS V8. Good Year Eagle ResponsEdge. They are nice and quite, and seem to handle and hold up well.

http://www.goodyear.ca/goodyeartireselectorca/display_tire.jsp?prodline=Eagle+ResponsEdge&mrktarea=Performance

stevenriz
09-28-10, 08:46 AM
DBK, do you have the same size all around and if so, what size did you go with? I put response edge on my Lacrosse CXS and loved them. Are they stiff enough for the 18" STS?

DBK81
09-28-10, 03:18 PM
I have 235/50-18 up front and 255/45-18 out back. I have pushed them a few times and they hold the road well with no noticeable roll over. I will swap them out in the the next couple months for winter tires on 17's. We get lots of white stuff up here in Canada ehhh :)

rnkath08
10-14-10, 03:09 PM
well, after much frustration and several tire shops, I ended up ordering the Condi DWS tires thru the dealer, who is running a buy 3, get 1 offer they swear to make right for me. I had hoped for the Avid Envigors, but turns out they don't come in both sizes I need. Had many hokey suggestions from the dealers, but turned out the dealership at least was willing to hear my concerns and help find a good fit..the sizes I have are 235/50/17 and 255/45/17.
I have to say this has been the biggest annoyance of the car so far, finding good sneakers shouldn't be so hard! And, can't tell you how many just said put pilots back on...ughhhhhh. They promise the new tires will come next week, just in time for me to store her up for the winter....ain't life grand? LOL

EChas3
10-14-10, 10:14 PM
Sounds like we have similar but different 2006 V8 AWD cars. It might be fun to compare details.

Subsailor613
10-15-10, 01:55 PM
Take a LOOK at Tirerack.com, you can shop by manufacturer, and other
headings, BUT, You WILL need to know what size you are looking for.
as all manufacturers DO NOT MAKE SOME SIZES for our cars.
i.e. Goodyear, does not make an Assurance/both types, or size
for my 2005 STS V8 ! Check out GENERAL UHF EXClaim,
put them on my rears for Traction.
Good Luck ! Have Fun ! :cool2::cool2:

rnkath08
10-19-10, 10:02 PM
"Sounds like we have similar but different 2006 V8 AWD cars. It might be fun to compare details."

I didn't realize the 06 had two different tire sizes (yours being 18s and mine being 17s) but really noticing it lately. A gal at my bank has one stock like mine, and her wheels are also 18s, and "to her knowledge her hubby didn't change the size"...LOL....I did go out and creep on her car to see what she had on it, but she has "general" tires that didn't really appear all that performance like....
Still waiting for the tires to arrive, they didn't take my cash before the 16th, which was the last day of the sale, the guy swears he'll make it right, then said "I just don't want to take your money before we have our hands on the tires'...that worries me....
And subsailor...I did start out online at tirerack and a few other places, but the short list of what fit my car as well as my list of what I wanted out of a tire was making the whole process even worse. Given the size and choice issues I've pretty much bagged the idea of chrome custom rims because I'm not willing to go D3 prices and not willing to drive myself silly shopping for the staggered sizes and don't want to change it all. Surprizingly the biggest disappointment I had came from dealing in the specialty tire shops who kept steering me toward basic all season tires, not at all what I had been after...oh well, hopefully the tires will show up before Nov 1 when Betty goes into hybernation...

EChas3
10-20-10, 12:09 AM
Do you have a build sheet fron your VIN? Any GM dealer can do it and some forum members will do so. The RPO Codes tell all the specifics. That's where I think there's fun. Not everyone agrees that particular options make for a better STS.

They are all fun!

rnkath08
10-20-10, 04:06 PM
indeed I do, has the 1SF lux pkg the build date was 8/8/05

RippyPartsDept
10-20-10, 05:16 PM
yeah, i'm one of those people w/ access to the build sheets... however, the official and final word on build options is the SPID label (in the trunk), so you can easily post your list (or a picture of your label) - but the SPID label doesn't have definitions for each RPO code like the build sheets I can pull have (and there's rarely any errors in them)

edit: in case you don't know.. SPID stands for Service Parts IDentification

EChas3
10-21-10, 12:18 AM
These cars have a bunch of OEM tire fitment (and limiter to match).

Std - 235/50R17 Michelin's
1SC - Staggered 17's
Premium - 235/50R18's
1SG - Staggered 18's
Rental/Fleet Michelin Energy (S-rated)
AWD - MXM A/S instead of Pilot Performance

Any others?

sjs05sts
10-21-10, 11:21 PM
Tires, Oh yes.... I remember the same questions you are having I have 11000 miles on my 05 STS I loved the hug,feel and quite ride of the OEM Michellen Pilots but hated replacing them every 25000 miles so I finally looked into replacing them. I went with Bridgestone Potenza Grid treadwear 460/A/A 96V although they are aggressive looking the ride and feel are very similar to Pilots but the treadwear is far superior I would recommend them if you want a tire that lasts...I am curious what you choose keep us informed.:thumbsup:

rnkath08
10-23-10, 11:52 AM
I did go with the Condi DWS as suggested by jedhead I think...wanted to ask about who he went thru on tread warranty as I'll be watching closely. I did briefly consider the Bridgestone Potenza's but didn't want to contend with much noise, granted the Corsa blocks some road/tire noise but just wanted to go this route. May try to get different next time around, but for now it's all good. With the sale it was $650 for the four installed, not horrible.
Now the next problem is that I have to find the dumb little pop rivets to hold on the front license plate holder. The touchless car wash blew the whole darn thing off the bumper this week and the dealership has none of them. GRRRR...dumb things like that annoy me!

Cadjiek
10-23-10, 01:28 PM
I paid $669 for my Conti DWS in August and also received a free TOM TOM GPS. Much more comfortable tire than the Michelin HX HXMX4 Pilots. Alot quieter too. I'm looking forward to some snowy roads (I must be sick!) to see how they handle. There always seem to be somekind of noisy harshness to my Michelins. However they did handle nice in the dry summer. I'm not an agressive driver, so if there is any
difference with the DWS I cn't really tell. I'll post back when I can comment on the snow issue. The Michelins were a disaster waiting to happen.

rnkath08
10-25-10, 09:16 PM
Tires got put on Monday am, love them so much more than those Mich. Pilots! Can't speak to how they would do in snow, as I don't let mine out in the winter, but do really like them, and wish they'd come with a free tom tom for the second car but so it goes. The dealer had a buy 3 get 1 deal so it was $650 installed. I'm happy with that.

EChas3
10-26-10, 11:35 AM
My OEM Michelin MXM 235/50R18 front tires had outside shoulder wear when I bought the car,even though they had only actually been on the front for about 25,000 miles. (Yes, the DPO had his dealer rotate them with the P255/45R18 rear's.) After another 10,000 miles, I could have still run them longer leagally but they were always hard and were starting to get noisy.

I haven't seen signs of excessive shoulder wear on the Conti DWS 235/50R18's and they have been rotated once after 10,000 miles. They are still quieter, better riding and better handling than the OEM's were when I got the car (39,000 on the odometer).