: Head issues. Dealer says i need new engine!! HELP!!



mrgoodbar67
09-02-10, 03:50 PM
well my gaskets started failing and oil was being leaked on my 2002 devile dts my engine has approx 103,000 miles. so i took it to my dealer in long beach, ca Boulevard Cadillac (formerly Coast Cadillac) theyve had the car for a week and a half and told me today that the bolts they put on keep strippin adn wont hold. they say they have tried everything with no success.

they said my only solution is a new engine.....$10,000!!!!!

wtf

how can this be man.. i took care of my car in the 5 yrs ive had it. bought it in 05 with 31000 miles.

what do you guys see as my solutions.

this issue made me feel like crap.

Submariner409
09-02-10, 04:05 PM
EDIT: Waitaminute......what bolt holes keep stripping ??? What gaskets - head gaskets don't cause an oil leak - unless the head(s) are nearly falling off the car (overhead cam mechanism oil feed passages).
----------------------------------

I believe GM had a standard TSB (Technical Service Bulletin) concerning the use of GM-approved Timesert bolt hole inserts in all 20 head bolt holes during Northstar top overhaul for failed head gaskets. I believe the thread machining and insert procedure is also called for in the GM Service Manual, at least it is in my 2002 Seville manuals.

If the dealer tried to replace the gasket(s) without inserting the head bolt holes, and they have thread failure, it's not your or the engine's fault: it's the dealer using non-GM repair procedures.

If push comes to shove, either you or the dealer call Jake up at www.northstarperformance.com - Jake is the manufacturer of Northstar head stud kits. Bulletproof.

mrgoodbar67
09-02-10, 04:57 PM
so how do i appraoch them about possibly not using Non-GM repair procedures?
Do i just bring up the Northstar Performance Suregrip Stud kit and ask the dealer to contact them adn use them?

STSS
09-02-10, 05:05 PM
Ask them if they inserted ALL 20 headbolt holes with "Timeserts".....

mrgoodbar67
09-02-10, 05:25 PM
so the answers is suppossed to be "yes" right?
if they say yes then..i reccommend the Northstar Performance Suregrip Stud kit ?
if they say no, what?

Mark C
09-02-10, 05:56 PM
If they say yes, then the bolts wouldn't be stripping.

Did you authorize them to replace your head gaskets, and get a price from them or are they just forging ahead on their own nickel if you will. If you drove the car there and they took this repair work on without you authorizing it, I would think they just bought you a new engine.

Submariner409
09-02-10, 06:00 PM
FWIW I'm doing some snooping around on websites and can not find reference one to either Northstar block bolt hole repair or GM's use of Timeserts; it's like it all dropped off the face of the earth.

The procedure for Cylinder head bolt hole thread repair begins on P.6-414 of the 2002 Seville manual.

mrgoodbar67
09-02-10, 06:43 PM
I authorized them to do the headgasket repair and got a price after they told me that "Check Coolant LEvel" message on my DIC and leaking oil that i found on my driveway was casued by the headgaskets.

I figured it be easy and done by now bc of all the info i've read on this forum.

RippyPartsDept
09-02-10, 07:10 PM
Sub, as far as i can remember GM stopped officially recommending timeserts as a dealer repair (but why stop a good thing, right?)
the parts from TimeFastener (the TimeSert company) in Nevada used to be a J-tool number, but one day a few years ago they changed the numbers
and after asking the TimeFasterner folks on the phone they said that GM no longer 'approved' of the repair and that's why they couldn't use the same numbers
(all they did was add BS, for BigSert, to the end of the J-tool numbers for the dowels and inserts and i guess that was good enough for GM)

it might have been around the time the last 2003 engines were out of warranty

RippyPartsDept
09-02-10, 07:12 PM
mrgoodbar, maybe you had a lower block seal leak and not a head gasket leak? if anyone had tried to fix it in the past (are you the original owner?) they may have messed something up down there and 'fixed' it so that it couldn't be truly fixed when it started leaking again

mrgoodbar67
09-02-10, 07:30 PM
no not original owner bought it....5 yrs ago from a dealer with 31000 miles. didnt start leaking until rececently

tomorrw i will call my dealer and ask if they used timeserts then im going to ask about Northstar Performance Suregrip Stud kit

other than that..what if they say no to timeserts and/or no to Suregrip stud kit?

then what? am i SOL?

RippyPartsDept
09-02-10, 08:32 PM
if they weren't using timeserts it would be good to know what they were doing
tapping the heads and using inserts was the only repair that works (as far as i know)
maybe they messed up and are trying to hide it
how much $$ are you into them for so far?
you need to get as much information down as you can
maybe communicate via email if you can so you have every word they say
don't make it obvious that you're looking to keep a transcript of what they tell you but it's always good insurance for the worst case scenario

Ranger
09-02-10, 10:05 PM
I wouldn't even mention Timeserts. Don't let them know what you know........yet. Just ask what exactly they did and why the bolts won't hold. Try to get something in writing.

RippyPartsDept
09-02-10, 11:03 PM
well said Ranger, that's what i was kind of trying to say, but better... :)

mrgoodbar67
09-03-10, 01:57 AM
WHY NOT JUST TELL THEM THAT I KNOW ABOUT TIMESERTS AND MENTION THE Northstar Performance Suregrip Stud kit....

I KNOW MY ENGINE IS NOT F'D UP ENOUGH TO NEED TO BE REPLACED. ITS ALWAYS RAN FINE NEVER GIVEN ME PROBLEMS... JUST NEEDED HEADGASKETS REPLACED. HOW CAN "STRIPPED BOLT HOLES" AND JUNK THAT GM HAS APPROVED REPAIRS FOR CAUSE AN ENGINE TO BE REPLACED? THE HEADS ARE NOT CRACKED..NEITHER IS THE BLOCK, EVERYTHING INTERNALLY IS FINE....IM SURE OF IT BECAUSE THEY HAV NOT SAID ANYTHING ABOUT THAT.

STRIPPED BOLT HOLES? GM HAS APPROVED REPAIR PROCEDURES FOR THIS, HOW CAN A CADI DEALER NOT KNOW ABOUT IT OR DO IT WRONG?
IF THIS REPAIR HAS BEEN DONE MANY TIMES ON NORTHSTARS AND HAS WORKED, WHY WONT IT WORK ON MY ENGINE WITH ONLY 103K MILES, WELL TAKEN CARE OF AND NEVER GIVEN ME ISSUES BEFORE THIS?

I FEEL LIKE THEY'RE TRYING TO STIFF ME...BIG!
GET ME TO BUY AN ENGINE...REFURB MY AND THEN SELL IT. WITH THEM WINNING BIG.

I FEEL LIKE TELLING THEM THAT I AM NOT STUPID AND WANT THEM TO DO THE JOB RIGHT.
...I TOOK IT TO GET THE HEADGASKETS REPAIRED AND THEY WERE GONNA DO IT.
WHAT IF THEY SAY THEY COULDNT, CANT OR WONT FIX IT. PERIOD, AM I OBLIGATED TO PAY THEM FOR A FIX THEY COULDNT DO? I MEAN, THE CAR WAS MOST LIKELY IN BETTER SHAPE WHEN I DROVE IT IN.

RippyPartsDept
09-03-10, 10:01 AM
that's why you need to get in writing what they think is wrong and what they've already done
it will make a big difference

Submariner409
09-03-10, 11:57 AM
WHY NOT JUST TELL THEM THAT I KNOW ABOUT TIMESERTS AND MENTION THE Northstar Performance Suregrip Stud kit....


Stop shouting !!! We can all hear pretty well............Right now you're in the "gamesmanship" phase, and you want to get the most info possible without tipping your hand. Yes, something is suspect in your engine repair problems, but we can't intercede - unfortunately this is your game - we're only observers.

I would have thought that a low coolant message would have prompted you to look in the coolant reservoir and begin checks for coolant leaks and oil spots would have begun a search for "where from". Was the car losing coolant (without visible leaks), overheating under load, or missing for a minute or so after a cold start ??? Headgasket symptoms. Forewarned is forearmed.

"Mr. Service Manager, I came in here with a coolant level notice and oil spots, you tell me that I need an engine top overhaul, that was unsuccessful and now you say I need a new engine ??? What caused the head gasket(s) to fail in the first place ??? What procedure did you use for cylinder head bolt hole repair ???"

.....and so on. Ask the questions and get the answers - if you don't get what you need, ask the dealership GM or owner to take your problem to Cadillac HQ and talk to their service arbitrators.

Ranger
09-03-10, 12:02 PM
WHY NOT JUST TELL THEM THAT I KNOW ABOUT TIMESERTS AND MENTION THE Northstar Performance Suregrip Stud kit....
Because you don't want to show your cards just yet. Your first post leads us to believe that they are simply replacing bolts and not inserting the block. IF that is the case, they are either taking a short cut or are incompetent and don't know what they are doing. IF either case where true, then they will lie about what they did and you will have no proof to hold them liable. On the other hand, IF they mean that they did the procedure correctly and the inserts won't hold (not likely), then they would be correct. The point is, they are not going to offer any information that will cost them money IF it is their fault.

EDIT:
Sub and I not only think alike, we do so at the same time.

RippyPartsDept
09-03-10, 12:02 PM
very good advice Sub!

mrgoodbar67
09-03-10, 12:19 PM
No coolant was leaking. i checked. that is why i took the car in.... also because oil was being leaked onto my driveway.

sorry abou the caps...its a habit, even on work emails. i get shit about it all the time.
not yelling at you fellas. but i am frustrated and upset about this thing, ofcourse not with any of u
thank you guys for your info.

email has been sent.

mrgoodbar67
09-03-10, 02:08 PM
Well, got a respone back from the service tech- i just copied and pasted. he typed in caps not me this time.

"WHAT CAUSED THE HEAD GASKETS TO FAIL IS THE THREADS IN THE ENGINE BLOCK STRIP (ALUM BLOCK) THEY DRIL HOLES FOR HEAD BOLTS AND RETAP FOR TIME SERTS (HELICOIL)
REPLACE HEAD GASKET AND REINSTALL HEADS FINISH PUTTING TOGETHER ENGINE REISTALLED ENGINE AND TRANS ASSY ROAD TEST FOUND ENGINE STILL RUNNING HOT

FOUND HC’S IN COOLING SYSTEM . REMOVED ENGINE AGAIN REMOVE HEADS FOUND THREADS PULLED OUT OF BLOCK ON RIGHT SIDE OF BLOCK INSTALLED BIG BERTS TIME SERTS

REINSTALLED ENGINE AND TRANS . ROAD TEST AGAIN FOUND TO BE OVER HEATING. PULLED ENGINE AGAIN REMOVE LEFT SIDE HEAD INSTALLED BIG BERTA TIMES SERTS REINSTALL

ENGINE AND TRANS ROAD TEST FOUND 80 HC’S IN COOLING SYSTEM STILL RUNNING OVER TEMP PULLED LEFT VALVE COVER AND FOUND 3 HEAD BOLTS LOOSE (PULLED TIME SERTS

UNALBE TO DO ANY MORE REPAIRS "

any advise?

Pete315
09-03-10, 02:19 PM
my advise- get your Caddy out of there and call Jake at Northstar Performance. Let him do the job once and you will be able to drive the piss out of the Caddy for another 10 years with no worries of a head gasket failure or a mid case oil leak.

RippyPartsDept
09-03-10, 02:38 PM
never heard of that happening before... i'd say it was their fault, but i'm not sure there's a way to prove it

mrgoodbar67
09-03-10, 02:59 PM
damn!!! so am i SOL?
jakes place is in Ontario Canada....im in Southern California thats a long ways away
what if i recommend jakes' Northstar Performance Suregrip Stud kit and have them install it?

what options are there for me now?

Mark C
09-03-10, 03:08 PM
In english, it appears they pulled the heads, installed timeserts in all 20 holes, put it back together ran it and it still overheated. They then drilled out the standard timeserts on the right head, put in bigserts on the right head only, put back together, and it was still overheating. They then pulled the engine a third time put bigserts in the left head put it all back together again and it was still over heating and 3 head bolts in the right head have pulled again.

If they used bigserts and still managed to strip a couple of holes, your block is definately done. Doesn't the bigsert, and Norms, and the Studs all use the same size drill (but different thread taps). If they do theres nowhere left to go. Now unless the block was totally powderized around these 3 holes theres no way even the first set of inserts should have pulled out if they were installed per the instructions, using the guide plates and alignment sleeves.

Submariner409
09-03-10, 07:04 PM
Well, got a respone back from the service tech- i just copied and pasted. he typed in caps not me this time.

"WHAT CAUSED THE HEAD GASKETS TO FAIL IS THE THREADS IN THE ENGINE BLOCK STRIP (ALUM BLOCK) THEY DRIL HOLES FOR HEAD BOLTS AND RETAP FOR TIME SERTS (HELICOIL)


If you have this in print from a Cadillac dealership, I believe that Helicoils are not an authorized GM thread repair procedure for aluminum work.

If all this drilling and screwing has pulled all the threads and inserts out of the block, then Yes, the block is toast.

mrgoodbar67
09-03-10, 07:12 PM
If you have this in print from a Cadillac dealership, I believe that Helicoils are not an authorized GM thread repair procedure for aluminum work.

If all this drilling and screwing has pulled all the threads and inserts out of the block, then Yes, the block is toast.


Yes the above was is in writing. Iy was emaield to me by the advisor from his dealership email.
so then if the engibe block went toast...it happened bc of the non approved gm work?

zonie77
09-03-10, 08:55 PM
The timeserts are not rocket science to install but they do need to be installed carefully. I would have the feeling that the mechanic may not be following the procedure carefully or he did not get the instructions with the kit.

Next I would talk to Jake (97eldocoupe I think) and see if his studs could be used after the bigserts (I think they can be but not sure).

Mark C
09-03-10, 09:33 PM
you really have to figure out exactly what they did. They use the term time sert then put helicoil in parenthesis. Now did he do that because 99.9% of the world dosen't have a clue what a time sert is, but maybe 5% know what helicoils are. Then he uses the term big berts, and big berta. The proper terms are bigserts. So did they initially use 11155 inserts, or helicoils, and di they drill them to the proper depth, as there are 31mm deep holes, and 51mm holes in a 2000+ Northstar engine (outboard holes are deeper than indboard). Put the wrong head bolt in the wrong depth hole, or drill that hole to the wrong depth and you' probably strip the insert cause your not completely inside it, or you went all the way thru it with the threads.

Whatever they did, unless they can prove theres some very poor casting of the block around those 3 stripped holes which cuased the bolts to strip, I would still think they owe you a block. Might take some calls to the GM zone office or other higher authority to get them to put pressure on the dealer from above.

This is a link to the instruction sheet for the 2000+ Northstar kit mentioned in the GM instructions for thread repair of the head bolt threads, and the supplementary J-4235-500BS Bigsert kit. Note the GM instructions are from a 2000 Seville service manual, it doesn't seem to appear in the 2002 manual anymore. Its under thread repair, not headgasket replacement. Note all the important statements in the procedure. Each line is a different step in the drilling and tapping process and of course there are figures in between most lines of text, but you'll get the idea of what it takes to do the job and do it correctly. That said I did mine in the driveway of my house with a hand air drill and a timesert kit, and then put another 40K miles on the car in just under 2 years, and never had an issue. You have to try to screw it up to have it fail three times.

http://www.timesert.com/html/NORTHSTAR2000_headbolt.pdf

http://www.timesert.com/html/northstar-bs.pdf

Cylinder Head Bolt Hole Thread Repair

Tools Required
J 42385-2000 Thread Insert Kit
The cylinder head bolt hole thread repair kit J 42385-2000 components consist of the following:

Drill (1) J 42385-2006
Tap (2) J 42385-2007
Installation driver (3) J 42385-2008
Stop collar (4) for inboard holes J 42385-2017
Alignment pin (5) J 42385-303
Bushing (6) J 42385-302
Bolts (7) J 42385-503 & 604
Fixture plate (8) J 42385-301
Inserts 111555 M11 x 1.5

Inboard Bolt Holes

Important

Remove the fixture plate prior to installing the insert with the installer tool.

The use of a cutting type fluid GM P/N 1052864, (Canadian P/N 992881), WD 40 or equivalent is recommended when performing the drilling, counterboring and tapping procedures.

When installed to the proper depth, the flange of the insert will be seated against the counterbore of the drilled/tapped hole.
Position the fixture plate (3) with the bushing (1) installed over the cylinder head bolt hole to be repaired (4).
Loosely install the fixture plate bolts (2) into the remaining cylinder head bolt holes.
Position the alignment pin (1) through the bushing and into the cylinder head bolt hole.
With the alignment pin in the desired cylinder head bolt hole, tighten the fixture retaining bolts (2).
Remove the alignment pin (1) from the cylinder head bolt hole.
Install the stop collar (2) onto the drill (1).
Important
During the drilling process, it is necessary to repeatedly remove the drill and clean chips from the hole and the flutes of the drill.
Drill the hole until the stop collar contacts the top of the drill bushing.
Drill out the threads of the damaged hole.
Important
All chips must be removed from the drilled hole prior to tapping.
Using compressed air, clean out any chips.
Important
During the tapping process, it is necessary to repeatedly remove the tap and clean chips from the hole and the flutes of the tap.
Ensure the tap has created full threads at least to the depth equal to the insert length.
Using a suitable tapping wrench, tap the threads of the drilled hole by hand only.
In order to tap the new threads for the insert to the proper depth, rotate the tap into the cylinder head bolt hole until the first mark (1) on the tap aligns with the top of the drill bushing (3).
Important
Remove the fixture plate prior to installing the insert with the installer tool.
Remove the fixture plate bolts (2).
Remove the fixture plate (3) and bushing (1).
Important
All chips must be removed from the tapped hole prior to insert installation.
Using compressed air, clean out any chips.
Spray cleaner GM P/N 12346139, P/N 12377981 or equivalent into the tapped hole.
Important
All chips must be removed from the tapped hole prior to insert installation.
Using compressed air, clean out any chips.
Important
Do not allow oil or other foreign material to contact the outside diameter (OD) of the insert.
Lubricate the threads of the driver installation tool (2) with the driver oil (1) J 42385-110.
Install the insert (2) onto the driver installation tool (1).
Apply threadlock sealant GM P/N 12345493, (Canadian P/N 10953488), J 42385-109, LOCTITE 277, or equivalent (1) to the insert OD threads (2).
Install the insert and installation driver (1) into the tapped hole by hand only.
Start the insert into the threaded hole.
Important
If the insert will not thread down until the flange contacts the counterbored surface remove the insert immediately with a screw extracting tool and inspect the tapped hole for any remaining chips and/or improper tapping.
Install the insert until the flange of the insert contacts the counterbored surface.
Important
The driver installation tool will tighten up before screwing completely through the insert. This is acceptable. The threads at the bottom of the insert are being formed and the insert is mechanically locking the insert into the base material threads.
Continue to rotate the driver installation tool through the insert.
Inspect the insert for proper installation into the tapped hole.

Outboard Bolt Holes

Important
Remove the fixture plate prior to installing the insert with the installer tool.
The use of a cutting type fluid GM P/N 1052864, (Canadian P/N 992881), WD 40 or equivalent is recommended when performing the drilling, counterboring and tapping procedures.
When installed to the proper depth, the flange of the insert will be seated against the counterbore of the drilled/tapped hole.
Position the fixture plate (3) with the bushing (2) installed over the cylinder head bolt hole to be repaired (4).
Loosely install the fixture plate bolts (1) into the remaining cylinder head bolt holes.
Position the alignment pin (1) through the bushing and into the cylinder head bolt hole.
With the alignment pin in the desired cylinder head bolt hole, tighten the fixture retaining bolts (2).
Remove the alignment pin (1) from the cylinder head bolt hole.
Important
During the drilling process, it is necessary to repeatedly remove the drill and clean chips from the hole and the flutes of the drill.
Drill the hole until the stop collar contacts the top of the drill bushing.
Drill out the threads of the damaged hole.
Important
All chips must be removed from the drilled hole prior to tapping.
Using compressed air, clean out any chips.
Important
During the tapping process, it is necessary to repeatedly remove the tap and clean chips from the hole and the flutes of the tap.
Ensure the tap has created full threads at least to the depth equal to the insert length.
Using a suitable tapping wrench, tap the threads of the drilled hole by hand only.
In order to tap the new threads for the insert to the proper depth, rotate the tap into the cylinder head bolt hole until the second mark (1) on the tap aligns with the top of the drill bushing (3).
Important
Remove the fixture plate prior to installing the insert with the installer tool.
Remove the fixture plate bolts (1).
Remove the fixture plate (3) and bushing (1).
Important
All chips must be removed from the tapped hole prior to insert installation.
Using compressed air, clean out any chips.
Spray cleaner GM P/N 12346139, P/N 12377981 or equivalent into the tapped hole.
Important
All chips must be removed from the tapped hole prior to insert installation.
Using compressed air, clean out any chips.
Important
Do not allow oil or other foreign material to contact the outside diameter (OD) of the insert.
Lubricate the threads of the driver installation tool (2) with the driver oil (1) J 42385-110.
Install the insert (2) onto the driver installation tool (1).
Apply threadlock sealant GM P/N 12345493, (Canadian P/N 10953488), J 42385-109, LOCTITE 277 or equivalent (1) to the insert OD threads (2).
Install the insert and installation driver (1) into the tapped hole by hand only.
Start the insert into the threaded hole.
Important
If the insert will not thread down until the flange contacts the counterbored surface remove the insert immediately with a screw extracting tool and inspect the tapped hole for any remaining chips and/or improper tapping.
Install the insert until the flange of the insert contacts the counterbored surface.
Important
The driver installation tool will tighten up before screwing completely through the insert. This is acceptable. The threads at the bottom of the insert are being formed and the insert is mechanically locking the insert into the base material threads.
Continue to rotate the driver installation tool through the insert.
Inspect the insert for proper installation into the tapped hole.

Ranger
09-03-10, 10:08 PM
Note he said "Timesert" and used Helicoil in parenthesis. I think he said it that way for the OP's benefit assuming he did not know what a "Timesert" was. Sounds like they did it right and it was just a bad block that is now a boat anchor. Check the "Root Cause" sticky at the top of the page. I think Jake may be your best bet at this point. Have him ship directly to the dealer for installation.

mrgoodbar67
09-03-10, 10:27 PM
so then if they did mess up, theres no way of proving it?
if thats the case, u guys think my best bet is buying jakes kit and having them install it there....? will it still work even after what they have already done?
for now im SOL huh?
damn...damn damn damn

94CaddyConcours
09-04-10, 01:59 AM
Of all the dealer, why Boulevard Cadillac? After the change of ownership from Coast Cadillac I think that they start slacking off.
But like Sub posted earlier, question what did leaking oil have to do with head gasket? Did you even tried checking the coolant level before the service? Also I think its the dealer is responsible since your engine wasn't overheating before the service. Right?

Submariner409
09-04-10, 09:52 AM
...........will it still work even after what they have already done?


Post #26, last sentence.

Ranger
09-04-10, 10:04 AM
You are beyond any kits or inserts. You are in new block or new motor territory. Call Jake and speak to him.

RippyPartsDept
09-04-10, 10:05 AM
Maybe you can get a used block cheap at a boneyard?
don't give up quite yet

RippyPartsDept
09-04-10, 11:28 AM
and a note about the caps lock situation:

our computer systems here require caps lock (we use reynolds&reynolds) for so many things it's ridiculous so many times people like techs and service advisers don't bother taking caps lock off when they don't need it on (it really is a hassle figuring out what needs caps and what doesn't).

I'd be willing to bet that the tech didn't need caps on to send that email to you but since he was using the system the caps lock was on. (They probably emailed you straight from their system, not a normal email program).

anyways, it's a legacy systems issue and i don't think it's going to be solved any time soon.

just fyi

mrgoodbar67
09-17-10, 06:38 PM
UPDATE
well fellas...

after about a week, the service tech released my car yesterday.
it runs fine no overheating
oh....and i paid nothing.

service tech said that the boss ok'd the "no cahrges". he added that it had all new gaskets bolts etc.... and had convinced the boss not to charge me.
Why do you guys think that is?
anyway he added that sometimes the block is weak and theres no way to know until you get inside.

apparently my car is good to drive only "around town".
i assume it means no long trips and WOT's.

let me know what you guys think.

Submariner409
09-17-10, 06:52 PM
UPDATE .......apparently my car is good to drive only "around town".
i assume it means no long trips and WOT's.

Glad you got it back OK - But, either the engine was repaired to be a Northstar or it wasn't - I can't understand the "Drive it like a little old lady" caution - unless they're not sure of their work and don't want you to break it during their 30 day (???) warranty.

ThumperPup
09-17-10, 07:14 PM
so you didnt have to pay a dime for any of the work is that right ?
if that is true then i would beat it for a bit see if you can get it to overheat drive it like a N should be driven and if its good its good if its not then its not and they probalby didnt do anyting except say put it back togethere hope it doesnt mess up and all

if its not all good after a few days of driving i persoanly would get a layer and well sew get reinbursment of 50 a day for say having to get a rental car for as long as they had it unless they gave you a loaner for free then also try to get what ever you can from them then call jake

vincentm
09-18-10, 01:02 AM
This thread has been helpful, now i'm weary about taking mine's to Bill Mcurley here in Pasco to get the job done, i mentioned Jake's head studs but was told they can't use parts that aren't covered under their warranty when i inquired about pricing with them for the job. I've called several shops around town and only McCurley is the one that will do the job, no others "won't touch it with a 10ft pole" At this point im thinking of doing it myself, using Jake's product.

ThumperPup
09-18-10, 12:29 PM
This thread has been helpful, now i'm weary about taking mine's to Bill Mcurley here in Pasco to get the job done, i mentioned Jake's head studs but was told they can't use parts that aren't covered under their warranty when i inquired about pricing with them for the job. I've called several shops around town and only McCurley is the one that will do the job, no others "won't touch it with a 10ft pole" At this point im thinking of doing it myself, using Jake's product.

from what i have leanred its a true fact that any shop that doenst know about a N and how they are and what to do is freaking scared away from them
i was looking at first in APril when i found out i had bad heads and 9 our of 10 shops said throw the engine away get a used or new one they where scared of these things i dont get it
i still have 2 shops that i asked when i first found out about the cracked block now and they said the shops that did the heads shouldnt even have messed with itbecause these just keep going bad i dont think they now shit about N's and are scared to even get into it because they dontknow how to do it right and dontw ana learn anyting new

zonie77
09-20-10, 06:29 PM
As more and more cars have OHC's, alum heads, computer controls, etc I wonder how most mechanics are going to cope. It's amazing that a decent DIY'er can do the HG's and inserts but a "professional" mechanic cannot.

mrgoodbar67
09-23-10, 02:30 AM
very true zonie.... wish i could do the job myself but i am no way close to knowing what im doing with engines nor do i have the tools. so to the dealer or mechanics it is. guess until i learn about these engines, or any engines for that matter, i might be a target to the shady mechanic practices.

its been a week since ive had my car and been driving it normally and the car has been fine. no issues (except the "check coolant level" warning is still coming out on my DIC).

no oil or liquids coming from my car (i check the driveway) so i guess ive been ok so far.

98eldo32v
09-23-10, 04:24 AM
"its been a week since ive had my car and been driving it normally and the car has been fine. no issues (except the "check coolant level" warning is still coming out on my DIC)."

Trouble is brewing............

97EldoCoupe
09-23-10, 07:25 AM
I was told by a customer who was upset there were no mechanics willing to touch these: "It's a damn General Motors V8. If they can't fix these they can't call themselves mechanics. They're wrench turners."

They're not as complicated as most mechanics seem to think.

Submariner409
09-23-10, 09:48 AM
"its been a week since ive had my car and been driving it normally and the car has been fine. no issues (except the "check coolant level" warning is still coming out on my DIC)."

Trouble is brewing............

The most common source of the "CHECK COOLANT LEVEL" message is a faulty level sensor in the bottom of the reservoir. If the coolant stays at the proper level - half full, cold - then the fix is to either remove the reservoir and try to clean it out or the automotive section of Amazon. Or, if you're a conscientious owner who checks fluids occasionally, you could pull the electrical connector off the bottom of the reservoir: IF the coolant level sensor is an ON/OFF float switch, then you could simply remove the tank connector and the light should go out.

98eldo32v
09-23-10, 11:34 AM
I will hope that is the source of his problem. Not that sensors go bad, we know that they do.

I had a friend that had a similiar problem with his 2000 deville. He stated that the same message kept coming across his info center.

I asked if he was adding coolant he stated every few days. He asked how did I know? All I could tell him was take it back to the dealer he bought the car from to have it inspected again.

I didn't have the heart to tell him the possible reasons the coolant was disappearing. He loved the car too much.....

RippyPartsDept
09-23-10, 04:00 PM
in my old cavalier all i had to do was unplug the sensor connector to make the light go out

Submariner409
09-23-10, 05:13 PM
in my old cavalier all i had to do was unplug the sensor connector to make the light go out

yeah...........I looked at the 2002 wiring diagrams and the coolant level sensor appears to be a simple float switch - unplugging it will open the circuit to ground and the message should disappear.

ponyboyt
09-24-10, 09:26 AM
2 cars i bought this year had the coolant message popping up every day or so. Turned out to be BOTH had a crack in the nipple where the line goes in, and were leaking after the car was shut off. They assumed they were burning coolant. Both cars are now back on the road with new(used) resevoirs, with no sign of fluid loss....