: Ferrari 458



Fubar75207
08-31-10, 03:41 PM
Who makes the suspension?

times up. GM :o (well technically, Delphi but I am still full of the lols on that one)

I thought you guys might get a kick out of it. Local mechanic told me that he found the Delphi parts on a new 458. I snickered.

M-1028
08-31-10, 04:04 PM
That's crazy!!, I didn't know GM owned Delphi.

cbloveday
08-31-10, 04:08 PM
Where is the mugatoo?

Stingroo
08-31-10, 04:45 PM
http://www.marketwire.com/press-release/Delphi-Technology-on-the-New-Ferrari-458-Italia-1044783.htm

It's got MagneRide

orconn
08-31-10, 04:58 PM
Why is this so surprising? GM and other mass market automaker parts show up on limited production cars all the time. I am sure that deep down in a Ferrari's component list there are FIAT parts to be found. It is naive to think that parts manufactured for other purposes wouldn't be used in the production of exotic, limited production cars. How ever, if your Ferrari, or Lambo is being service by an "authorized" service facility you will be charged Ferrari prices for parts and labor!

SlvrBullIT
08-31-10, 08:19 PM
E92 M3 has it too, so Audi uses it also......

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-31-10, 08:37 PM
Who had Magnaride first, the STS or the Corvette?

Fubar75207
08-31-10, 10:01 PM
STS was the first.

Playdrv4me
08-31-10, 11:15 PM
This has been common knowledge for a while now. In fact that's not the first Ferrari to use Magneride, the 599 GTB Fiorano introduced the feature for Ferrari in 2006.

Night Wolf
09-01-10, 12:34 AM
The Lotus Elan is really an Isuzu Impulse :cool:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/be/Lotus_Elan.jpg

http://www.robietherobot.com/storm/images/IsuzuImpulseRS.jpg

http://i4.photobucket.com/albums/y122/micrak10/lotus%20elan/DSC02350.jpg

The Lotus was FWD only, while the Impulse RS was AWD. Both were turbocharged.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-01-10, 01:00 AM
Sounds like Lotus really got the short hand of that deal. Why doesn't Isuzu make cars anymore? They had a few compact models in the '80s and early '90s.

jayoldschool
09-01-10, 01:27 AM
Nothing new. Rolls Royce used GM TH400s for years...

Night Wolf
09-01-10, 02:23 AM
Sounds like Lotus really got the short hand of that deal. Why doesn't Isuzu make cars anymore? They had a few compact models in the '80s and early '90s.

The car was actually a pretty good performer. The late model Imulse RS was quite ahead of its' time. 1991 model car with DOHC turbocharged I4, manual trans and AWD. Later in the years with the pop up headlights (such as the one pictured) they looked pretty good. The GEO Storm was also a rebaged Impulse.

Isuzu was the first car builder of Japan. Early on they established themselves' as a truck manufacterer, much like the American Willys or International. They made all sorts of trucks both commercial and personal. They made a few cars over the years, but they were primarially a truck company. The Chevette was nothing more then a rebadged first gen Isuzu Gemini, including the engine.

They made some of the best trucks and SUV's for personal vehicles. Isuzu stuck pretty close to their truck heritage which is why here inthe US sales of the Rodeo/Trooper were getting lost to other SUV's that turned more car-like. Underneath the newer Isuzu sheetmetal was still a pretty strong no frills truck chassis. GM trashed what was left of Isuzu here in the US in terms of personal vehicles.

It is sad we no longer have real Isuzu passenger vehicles sold here. They still make some awesome compact pickup trucks. While all the other compacts have gone full sized. An example would be the D-MAX, an updated compact pickup that is still a real truck under the new sheetmetal and powered by a 3.0L diesel.

http://www.isuzu.co.jp/world/product/dmax/index.html

Isuzu still has the mid-sized commercial truck market pretty well cornered.

History:

http://www.isuzu.co.jp/world/corporate/truck/builders01.html

Jesda
09-01-10, 03:15 AM
I consider that generation of Elan a weird thing that happened, and forgot it.

The iconic Elan was from the 60s/70s and inspired the Miata.

Stingroo
09-01-10, 07:17 AM
I like that Impulse. I would drive that.

Didn't Isuzu also make a hatchback thing of some sort, similar to a CRX but RWD?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-01-10, 08:05 AM
I like that Impulse. I would drive that.

Didn't Isuzu also make a hatchback thing of some sort, similar to a CRX but RWD?

Yeah, the Impulse.

What happened with Isuzu? Why'd they pull out of the US Market? Was it a lack of customer knowledge? I don't remember a lot of Isuzu commercials, aside from the awesome Joe Isuzu commericals from the '80s, but back then Isuzu had a pretty strong base here in the states, but within the last 15-20 years, all their sales withered away and then by the end they were nothing but rebadged GM's.

Night Wolf
09-01-10, 08:22 AM
I forgot to mention that the last generation Impulse RS had a suspension designed/tuned by Lotus. It was also intercooled.

It is common to write it off based off the manufacterer, but then you would be passing up on quite a unique early car that is oh so popular now. Sort of like how Isuzu was a few years too soon on the Axiom cross-over (which was still truck based)

http://sportcompactcar.automotive.com/73380/0106-sccp-1991-1992-isuzu-impulse-rs/index.html

http://www.carlustblog.com/2009/01/isuzu-impulse-r.html


While the first-generation Impulse was pretty cool, it is this second version that really hits the mark; and most people don't even know it exists. What makes it so special? Specs: 160 horsepower, all-wheel-drive, 2,700 pounds, manual only, hood scoop.

Wow. What's even more insane is the fact that this car existed before Subaru created the WRX. Did I mention the suspension was tuned by Lotus?



I like that Impulse. I would drive that.

Didn't Isuzu also make a hatchback thing of some sort, similar to a CRX but RWD?

Goodluck finding one (or it's GEO brother) as they were rare and most beat up :(

The first generation I-Mark was a small RWD hatchback - it's what the Chevette was.

You are probably thinking about the earlier Impulse, before the one stated above. It had more modern (80's) styling but was RWD

http://www.carlustblog.com/2008/03/car-lust--isuzu.html

LOL, Isuzu had such a great marketing team with Joe Isuzu, as the two videos in the link above show.

I actually miss my '94 Amigo. Compared to a '94 Jeep Wrangler stock to stock, it was actually a much better vehicle built for off-road, the main drawback being IFS. Heck, there were things on the '94 base model Isuzu that still put the TJ to shame, 4-wheel disc brakes stock, 4.56 gears stock, they all came with the Isuzu 12-bolt rear axle which was stronger then the Dana44, while Jeep still used the weak Dana35c stock (my TJ has the optional D44). Frame was fully boxed front to back - something Toyota still dosen't do, and transfercase was a beefy gear-driven unit. Mine was only 2wd, but that dosen't mean anything when it comes to swapping in a solid front axle. At the time I got frustrated with it and had other things going on, and just didn't want to deal with it anymore. Sometimes I think I should have kept it and built it up into quite a unique off-road vehicle with an engine swap and solid axle swap.

The part I don't regret though, is who I sold it to. Near Atlanta is an older gentleman who lives and breathes Isuzu. He spent hisentire career with Isuzu working with engineering and training. This guy forgot more information about Isuzu then I would ever know. He has a large 2-story barn jam packed full of genine Isuzu parts, all the stuff you can't find anymore. He still has contacts with the dealer and distrubution networks and can order just about anything you can think of. I made a trip up there for some parts with my Amigo and he went crazy over the condition that it was in.

1994 was the last year for the 1st generation Amigo and also had many changes. Some were cosmetic, others were not. The '94-only Amigo had the entire front end/brakes from the larger Rodeo. Which is why when I first picked up brake pads for what the computer at the store listed for Amigo, they were way too small. Turns out Isuzu had big plans for the first generation Amgio before they stopped selling it in 1994. All first gen Amigos were either had with the 2.3 carb or 2.6 fuel injected I4, but he informed me those changes were made because the Amigo was supposed to get the same 3.2L DOHC V6 that was in the Rodeo, and it was to also be able to be ordered in 2wd with a manual transmission - talk about a little screamer for the mid 90's!

When the headgasket went the 2nd time (I never brought the head to a shop to be cleaned/milled/inspected the first time) I was frustrated with it and sent him a message on the Isuzu site. I offered the whole Amigo w/ nearly new 32" All-terrain tires, the factory soft top and rare aftermarket hardtop, and all the stuff I had for it in parts for $800. I knew it was going to the best home it could. We made arrangements and he made the trip with his wife in his supercharged Trooper and picked it up.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/Isuzu1/Final/2-28-09004.jpg

A bit after he left I made a trip up to Atlanta for something, and actually passed him on the interstate.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/Isuzu1/Final/IMG00271.jpg

His knowledge is crazy, such as this question about someone asking how Isuzu used GM 2.8 engines in their vehicles from the factory. He types in caps because it is easier for him to see.

http://forum.planetisuzoo.com/viewtopic.php?t=14587&highlight=trooper+japan


YEP THOSE ENGINES CAME FROM GM IN A BOX , YOU WOULD NOT BELIEVE HOW SMALL A BOX THOSE THINGS WERE CRATE IN , THEY WERE SHIPPED IN 40 FT CONTAINERS ,AND INSTALLED IN THE I BELIEVE THE FUJISAWA PLANT, I WAS TALIKING WITH ONE OF THE ENGINEERS ONE TIME ABOUT THAT EXACT THING WHY THEY DIDNT SHIP THE TRUCKS HERE IN KNOCK DOWN FORM LIKE THEY DO TO OTHER COUNTRIES AND INSTALL THE RUNNING GEAR HERE , TOO MUCH HANDLING OF COMPLETED VEH AND SO UP GOES DAMAGE , WHEN HE TOLD ME THE SHIPPING COST PER ENG I ABOUT FLIPPED IT WAS LESS THAN 5.00 PER ENG IN A CONTAINER LOAD , I JUST PRICED THE SHIPPING FOR A SHORT BLOCK FROM ATLANTA TO MICH, 148.00 , HE TOLD ME HOW MANY OF THOSE ENG THEY COULD GET IN THE CONTAINER AND IT WAS A TON OF ENGS THE BOX WAS ONLY ABOUT 20 IN OR SO, LONG AND ABOUT THE SAME LENGTH AND WIDTH, ALL THE ACCESSORIES WERE IN THE BOX BUT NOT INSTALLED ON THE ENG ,IT WAS SOMETHING LIKE 2500 ENGS WOULD FIT IN ONE OF THOSE BIG CONTAINERS, BEFORE ISUZU ACCEPTED RELEASE OF THE ENG , WE HAD A LOT OF WORRIES AND SO DID THE DLRS ABOUT SOME OF THE PROBLEMS THAT THE GM DLRS WERE HAVING, SO THERE WERE QUITE A FEW CHANGES MADE TO THE ENGS AS FAR AS GASKETS AND ASSY PROCEDURES BEFORE ISUZU GOT THEM, AND AS IT TURNED OUT IT WASNT A BAD LITTLE ENG, NOT REALLY ANY MORE POWERFUL THAN THE 2.6 , BUT AS FAR AS A GENERAL CUSTOMER WAS CONCERNED IT WAS A V6 AND THTA WAS THE RAGE THEN, AND GM WOULD NOT SELL THE 4.3 AS THEY WERE AT THE TIME USING EVERYTHING THEY COULD BUILD IN THEIR OWN VEH, THE 4.3 IS A NICE FIT IN THE TROOPER I MIGHT AD AND IS NOT A DIFFICULT FIT, , JERRY

I still have a very soft spot in my heart for Isuzu.... sometimes I catch myself browings for a 1st gen Trooper, and I don't know why I already told myself I don't need more vehicles and I have 1 off-road vehicle as it is.... yet I still like Isuzu.

Night Wolf
09-01-10, 08:36 AM
Yeah, the Impulse.

What happened with Isuzu? Why'd they pull out of the US Market? Was it a lack of customer knowledge? I don't remember a lot of Isuzu commercials, aside from the awesome Joe Isuzu commericals from the '80s, but back then Isuzu had a pretty strong base here in the states, but within the last 15-20 years, all their sales withered away and then by the end they were nothing but rebadged GM's.

Back in the 80's and early-mid 90's with the SUV craze, Isuzu was one of the best and well known. Later on in the 90's when the competetion was watering down their SUV's from the original truck based designs to be more car-like, and then moving to car plateforms, Isuzu stuck to their original truck-based platforms. The common person didn't like that as a truck-based vehcile can not compare to the typical on-road driving characteristics of a car based SUV.

It was mostly in the US it was like this, as nearly all other palces around the world still highly acclaim Isuzu as building some of the best trucks/SUV's. Here in the US, the average person dosen't care about how durable their vehicle is and that under the new skin it is really a pretty well built machine.

That was the start of it, when GM took over market share at the time and canceled all of Isuzu's real trucks/SUV's and replaced them with their own rebadged junk that was what really sealed the deal.

Isuzu was still making some interesting things. The Axiom was ahead of its time, it was the crossover before crossovers were popular. It was still on a fullyboxed frame with solid rear axle. The Rodeo/Rodeo Sport (name change from Amigo) and Trooper were well designed and the Vehi-CROSS was a very unique vehicle.

It sorta started in the mid-90's when the real Isuzu P'up was replaced with a rebadged S10.... try finding a good condition 4wd Pup now, they still fetch premium money.

Ultimately it was Americans being Americans, lack of marketing and finally GM totally screwing it all up.

Fubar75207
09-01-10, 09:27 AM
Why is this so surprising? GM and other mass market automaker parts show up on limited production cars all the time. I am sure that deep down in a Ferrari's component list there are FIAT parts to be found. It is naive to think that parts manufactured for other purposes wouldn't be used in the production of exotic, limited production cars. How ever, if your Ferrari, or Lambo is being service by an "authorized" service facility you will be charged Ferrari prices for parts and labor!

It's not surprising, it's just a boastful expression of patriotic pride; expensive elitist european supercar having to copy-cat the ultimate American fat-cat car (don't get bent over that). I just got a chuckle out of it. I think most of us understand the basic theories of manufacturing and production. However, if you understand the Italian's belief that Ferrari was a demigod then you can appreciate this factoid with more than just a fiscal-multinational point of view.


This has been common knowledge for a while now. In fact that's not the first Ferrari to use Magneride, the 599 GTB Fiorano introduced the feature for Ferrari in 2006.

I agree that it has been out there but I don't know about "common knowledge." When confirming the details, I found that the 599 also used it but I thought it more interesting that the all new, ultra badass 458 Italia also used this Cadillac inspired technology.

Cheers.

Submariner409
09-01-10, 10:17 AM
It's not surprising, it's just a boastful expression of patriotic pride; expensive elitist european supercar having to copy-cat the ultimate American fat-cat car (don't get bent over that).



FWIW, Ferrari did NOT "copy-cat" anything American. Ferrari looked at the 2002.5 - 2003 STS and Corvette with Lord/DELPHI Magnetic Ride Control and contracted with DELPHI to produce suspension systems to spec for several of their cars. Lamborghini is/was also in the mix.

Exactly the same business setup which has Robert Bosch in Germany manufacture fuel injection system parts for many GM cars, DENSO in Japan makes many ignition parts for GM, blah, blah, blah.

Nothing "copy-cat" about any of it - it's global business. Remember that the Northstar emerged out of a Lotus (British) racing engine design - GM "copy-cat" ???

Fubar75207
09-01-10, 10:34 AM
FWIW, Ferrari did NOT "copy-cat" anything American. Ferrari looked at the 2002.5 - 2003 STS and Corvette with Lord/DELPHI Magnetic Ride Control and contracted with DELPHI to produce suspension systems to spec for several of their cars. Lamborghini is/was also in the mix.

Exactly the same business setup which has Robert Bosch in Germany manufacture fuel injection system parts for many GM cars, DENSO in Japan makes many ignition parts for GM, blah, blah, blah.

Nothing "copy-cat" about any of it - it's global business. Remember that the Northstar emerged out of a Lotus (British) racing engine design - GM "copy-cat" ???

All copied off a competitors superior technology. There is nothing remarkable about using a better technology, it's just the Cadillac/Ferrari contrast that makes this an interesting story. Enzo would have died before he 'followed' an American racing technology.

Night Wolf
09-01-10, 12:05 PM
I'm just not following that logic...

orconn
09-01-10, 01:26 PM
I don't know about Enzo Ferrari "dying" about using an "American" technology in his cars, but I can tell you from personal experience that Ferrucio Lamborghini was not shy about employing the best technology available, from whatever source, in his cars and in doing so made so cars that outperformd Ferrari's rpad cars!

drewsdeville
09-01-10, 01:41 PM
Does Isuzu even really care about the consumer auto market? If I remember correctly, they are huge in industrial grade engines and equipment, making some of the best diesel engines on the planet, powering large generators and such.

There's a diesel generator at my dads job that would barely fit in a 2 car garage, I'm pretty sure it's Isuzu-built.

They still have their hand in the cookie jar though when it comes to the consumer auto market. Isn't GM's Duramax an Isuzu design?

concorso
09-01-10, 02:08 PM
All copied off a competitors superior technology. There is nothing remarkable about using a better technology, it's just the Cadillac/Ferrari contrast that makes this an interesting story. Enzo would have died before he 'followed' an American racing technology.
This was a story when the 599 GTB first used this suspension. As much attention as Ferraris V8 models get, they are certainly not their flagship cars. The fact that the much more expensive 599 GTB used this suspension is more impressive to me. The suspension was unproven as a performance addition at that point and Ferrari still used it in a V12 model...

Night Wolf
09-01-10, 08:46 PM
Does Isuzu even really care about the consumer auto market? If I remember correctly, they are huge in industrial grade engines and equipment, making some of the best diesel engines on the planet, powering large generators and such.

There's a diesel generator at my dads job that would barely fit in a 2 car garage, I'm pretty sure it's Isuzu-built.

They still have their hand in the cookie jar though when it comes to the consumer auto market. Isn't GM's Duramax an Isuzu design?

In short - not in the US anymore.

The Duramax was a joint venture between Isuzu/GM. Judging from how well GM's previous attempts as diesel engines in passenger vehicles were (not) and the success of the Duramax, I'd say Isuzu did something right.

The Canyon/Colorado pickups were an Isuzu chassis with GM running gear. Same with the Hummer H3.

Where I work (airforce base) there are large older Detroit Diesel generators to supply power to the aircraft that are not in a hanger. They are very loud. For the mobile offices they use Whisperwatt generators powered by Isuzu diesels. The name dosen't lie either, because you can walk right next to them and if you aren't paying attention, wouldn't even know it's running. They sound like a small electric water pump.

Some info on the Duramax:

http://www.shadetreemechanic.com/duramax_diesel.htm