: CAI question



Domsz06
08-31-10, 12:31 PM
Ok, I know I should search this, but I tried and I can't search anything. I don't know what's up.

Here goes, is there any real difference between the various CAI's besides what it's made of and the cost?

I mean some say that W4M is the best, others say araid has issues at higher hp etc etc.

I'm getting ready to do the lower, CAI and tune, maybe an upper too and just curious.

Thanks all.

cbloveday
08-31-10, 12:49 PM
I am happy with W4me, unable to comment on others.

Domsz06
08-31-10, 12:53 PM
Thanks CBloveday.

Gary Wells
08-31-10, 01:37 PM
I cannot claim that I am qualified to respond as I am currently running completely bone stock with no modifications whatsoever. However, from what I have read on the this forum and others, I believe that Jesse's of Wait4Me is as least as good as any of the others, and better than most, maybe all. If I were to buy one, it would probably be Jesse's, as I like the appearance of his. I believe that Jesse once posted on this forum that he dynoed a '09 CTS-V without any air cleaner assembly and the best that he could get was 6 or 8 RWHP, and that he couldn't see any making more RWHP than that. Not to quote names, but I also believe that Jesse has never made any outlandish claims like some of the others have. I believe that one manufacturer claimed as much as 36 RWHP increase. I believe that another claimed 28 RWHP increase. You might want to consider a "stock air box mod" until you have reached a more definitive decision. I really think that it would be beneficial to do a search. HTH

Domsz06
08-31-10, 01:53 PM
Thanks Gary.

With just the CAI it won't gain that much, but with the others the combined effect is what I'm wanting. I also want to get the CAI as it makes the whine louder and I love that sound of the SC.

For some reason I can't search, when I do nothing comes up. I'll try at home, as it may be my work computer but IDK.

I would like to see Jesse's. I guess also I'm just doing it on price too. Got a smoking deal on an araid, if I want to get it, just trying to get all my ducks in a row before I start buying parts.

ROORn02z28
08-31-10, 02:05 PM
any one have pics of what they have installed? I'd like to see all the different CAI available out there

Gary Wells
08-31-10, 02:07 PM
I believe that Airaid is virtually identical to the KPE unit.
I suspect that all of them are very similar in the supercharger whine (no cheese?) effect.

cbloveday
08-31-10, 02:12 PM
Thanks Gary.

With just the CAI it won't gain that much, but with the others the combined effect is what I'm wanting. I also want to get the CAI as it makes the whine louder and I love that sound of the SC.

For some reason I can't search, when I do nothing comes up. I'll try at home, as it may be my work computer but IDK.

I would like to see Jesse's. I guess also I'm just doing it on price too. Got a smoking deal on an araid, if I want to get it, just trying to get all my ducks in a row before I start buying parts.

Jesse's

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/wait4meinstall/DSC_0182.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/catchcaninstall/DSC_0368.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/catchcaninstall/DSC_0354.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/catchcaninstall/DSC_0358.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/catchcaninstall/DSC_0359.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/catchcaninstall/DSC_0360.jpg

http://i183.photobucket.com/albums/x99/cbloveday_bucket/catchcaninstall/DSC_0361.jpg

Domsz06
08-31-10, 02:15 PM
I believe that Airaid is virtually identical to the KPE unit.
I suspect that all of them are very similar in the supercharger whine (no cheese?) effect.

i think your correct. Someone on here I believe said one of the CAI's stuggles above 600 hp, but I don't really see why. They all look identical, just price and materials are different.

gnxs
08-31-10, 02:31 PM
Ok, I know I should search this, but I tried and I can't search anything. I don't know what's up.

Here goes, is there any real difference between the various CAI's besides what it's made of and the cost?

I mean some say that W4M is the best, others say araid has issues at higher hp etc etc.

I'm getting ready to do the lower, CAI and tune, maybe an upper too and just curious.

Thanks all.
Since nobody has done a "controlled" test on the various units out there, it's all conjecture at this point. The majority of CAI's out there look well made and effective.

I run the full W4M unit and have no complaints, but I'm not near the HP levels of some on here. Then again I see Cloveday is making 673 rwhp through his W4M unit, so I've probably got room to grow before needing to look at other alternatives.

Gary Wells
08-31-10, 02:36 PM
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/202873-cold-air-kit-special-300-a.html

I especially like the appearance of Jesse's unit as on Curtis's (user name cbloveday) car. you might want to see what his newer unit looks like, or if the appearance has changed any.

Domsz06
08-31-10, 02:38 PM
Thanks everyone, keep it coming.

Gary Wells
08-31-10, 03:11 PM
Well, OK, here you go.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/search.php?searchid=28440

Domsz06
08-31-10, 03:21 PM
Well, OK, here you go.

http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/search.php?searchid=28440

when I click I get this.^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Sorry - no matches. Please try some different terms.

Gary Wells
08-31-10, 04:30 PM
Do a search under "KPE cold air" & "KPE cold air intake"

cbloveday
08-31-10, 05:39 PM
I like working with someone where this does not happen.

http://www.xtranormal.com/watch/6906851/

newcadman
08-31-10, 07:18 PM
Since nobody has done a "controlled" test on the various units out there, it's all conjecture at this point. The majority of CAI's out there look well made and effective.

I run the full W4M unit and have no complaints, but I'm not near the HP levels of some on here. Then again I see Cloveday is making 673 rwhp through his W4M unit, so I've probably got room to grow before needing to look at other alternatives.

gnxs- You may very well be correct when you say nobody has done a controlled test on the various units out there, it's all conjecture at this point.

However, when it comes to the KPE/AIRAID cai I have ever reason to believe that conjecture does not apply.

I personally had the KPE unit tested on my V and saw a gain of 8 rwhp over stock. This result was then reported on the forum!

Guess maybe you missed it?

V&Vette
08-31-10, 07:23 PM
Hey DomZ06, here are some pics of the airaid unit. I've had no problems and the sounds is worth the price of admission alone. JDP had some great deals on these.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs067.snc3/13456_414458302365_559862365_4362820_1233215_n.jpg


http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs067.snc3/13456_414458312365_559862365_4362822_7222927_n.jpg

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs067.snc3/13456_414458317365_559862365_4362823_2934094_n.jpg

http://hphotos-snc3.fbcdn.net/hs631.snc3/31641_398005297365_559862365_3978476_171439_n.jpg

Sorry, had to put this one in there 2 even though its irrelevant.

Gary Wells
08-31-10, 07:44 PM
I notice that the cover on the Airaid unit fits better than some of the others do. And I know that Grant (newcadman) had dynoed before & after on the Airaid-KPE unit and that is why I posted 6 or 8 RWHP. Not really a bad increase, and probably pretty typical of the better ones, but far from what it was reportedly tested as originally. Many thanks to Grant for actually taking the time and spending the money for a actual before and after dyno. Thanks, Grant, you are the man, well, you and Curtis, maybe.

gnxs
08-31-10, 10:04 PM
gnxs- You may very well be correct when you say nobody has done a controlled test on the various units out there, it's all conjecture at this point.

However, when it comes to the KPE/AIRAID cai I have ever reason to believe that conjecture does not apply.

I personally had the KPE unit tested on my V and saw a gain of 8 rwhp over stock. This result was then reported on the forum!

Guess maybe you missed it?
I meant the kind of tests I see in magazines like Muscle Mustangs and Fast Fords where they get a good sampling (4-6 different brands) of various products together (e.g. long-tube headers or intake manifolds) and test them all on the same dyno, same day trying to keep the timing static and the A/F constant.

I didn't mean to imply an individual hasn't done a stock vs. modded comparison on their own car. I did see your results, but thanks again for the info. :thumbsup:

e6t
08-31-10, 11:15 PM
so are you guys implying that the dyno results posted by the airaid guys is not accurate?

Gary Wells
08-31-10, 11:53 PM
These are posts out of the noted threads on this forum:

05-14-2010: 03:11 PM: KPE Cold Air Intake: Designed to draw cold air and fit with the factory engine bay trim. The first CTS-V intake to feature injection molded plastic tube and large filter protected in sealed powdercoated aluminum box. Makes 24 RWHP on a stock motor and even more with other modifications.

03-19-2009: 04:19 PM: (JTHennessey) True Cold Air Intakes – Instock!: “True Cold Air intakes – Instock”: Want to add a quick 15 hp? This is the solution. Completely replaces the factory intake system with our true *cold air intake*. Last week, Nick @ American Racing Headers was able to test this induction system and was able to show a gain of 18 rwhp!!! Awesome setup. Images attached to this post

05-21-2009: 09:06 AM: “New Era CTS-V Cold Air Intake”: Mike @ New Era tuned a 09 CTSV and tested our intake on it. It made 451rwhp and 437rwtq in stock form and it picked up 34rwhp and 28rwtq with the New Era 09 CTSV intake untuned. After Mike tuned it, it made 505rwhp and 470rwtq.

HTH

Gary Wells
08-31-10, 11:57 PM
so are you guys implying that the dyno results posted by the airaid guys is not accurate?

At this time and date, I think that I would like to remain silent and invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

e6t
09-01-10, 12:26 AM
At this time and date, I think that I would like to remain silent and invoke my rights under the fifth amendment.

From another thread and even better than words:


I received the official Airaid dyno chart and I wanted to post it as I've had request for it. I apologize for the delay and if anyone has any questions please call, email, PM or post in this thread.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-ash2/hs082.ash2/37440_421574718248_59438338248_4298281_5041617_n.j pg (http://www.magnaflowplus.com/showitem.aspx?&id=103410&name=2009-2010%20Cadillac%20CTS-V%206.2L%20Airaid%20Intake%20System)

Airaid's 250-253 (http://www.magnaflowplus.com/showitem.aspx?&id=103410&name=2009-2010%20Cadillac%20CTS-V%206.2L%20Airaid%20Intake%20System) for the 2009-2010 CTS-V made 24 RWHP and 43 ft/lbs of torque at 3000 RPM with a peak torque increase of 28 ft/lbs of torque. We appreciate everyone's interest in this great system and all orders have been processed and if they haven't shipped because of the weekend they'll ship today. Have a good one and we'll talk to you soon!

Kind regards,

Jordan Priestley

GMX322V S/C
09-01-10, 12:57 AM
I'd put cutting the bottom of the stock airbox off, plus LPE solid tube up there with any of the CAI kits on the market--even with a stock filter.

Domsz06
09-01-10, 08:28 AM
V&Vette,

Thanks for the pics, like the way that looks....

gnxs
09-01-10, 09:25 AM
so are you guys implying that the dyno results posted by the airaid guys is not accurate?
I don't know who the "you guys" are referring to, but I am not implying anything. I merely indicated a same day, "controlled" third party test of the various units could yield beneficial information. Whenever I've seen these done in performance mags, the results have always been enlightening.

Gary Wells
09-01-10, 11:20 AM
I believe that I will still remain silent and invoke my Constitutional rights under the fifth amendment, but here's some food for thought for everybody and I am not implying anything. Reading from top to bottom.


03-19-2009: 04:19 PM: (JTHennessey) True Cold Air Intakes – Instock!: “True Cold Air intakes – Instock”: Want to add a quick 15 hp? This is the solution. Completely replaces the factory intake system with our true cold air intake. Last week, Nick @ American Racing Headers was able to test this induction system and was able to show a gain of 18 rwhp!!! Awesome setup. Images attached to this post

05-21-2009: 09:06 AM: “New Era CTS-V Cold Air Intake”: Mike @ New Era tuned a 09 CTSV and tested our intake on it. It made 451rwhp and 437rwtq in stock form and it picked up 34rwhp and 28rwtq with the New Era 09 CTSV intake untuned. After Mike tuned it, it made 505rwhp and 470rwtq.

05-14-2010: 03:11 PM: KPE Cold Air Intake: Designed to draw cold air and fit with the factory engine bay trim. The first CTS-V intake to feature injection molded plastic tube and large filter protected in sealed powdercoated aluminum box. Makes 24 RWHP on a stock motor and even more with other modifications.

06-06-2010: 06:32 PM: Airaid 250-253 - Best prices – Free Shipping!: Airaid Cold Air Intake System for the 2009-2010 Cadillac CTS-V 6.2L Supercharged V8 includes a modular intake tube, air dam and highflow washable air filter. This System will give you 28 HP and 43 FT/LBS of Torque with out a Tune.

07-31-2010: 04:55 PM: KPE: Re: All KPE CAI owners………Instead of using our car, we grabbed a used 2010 CTS-V straight off the lot from our local Cadillac Dealer with 7980 miles which was bone stock. We then installed the KPE intake, and they ran the car again on the dyno..………….they took the average of the three runs which proved an 11 hp increase. They did have a run that showed +20 but the average at full temperature was +11.

07-31-2010: 06:53 PM: newcadman: Re: All KPE CAI owners: As indicated I took my 2009 V auto V (7000 miles) to the same (dynojet) dyno where it was previously tested when it was bone stock…………… Three pulls were made with the now installed KPE cai. End result, the engine made 8 MORE rwhp on its best pull than it did on its previous best bone stock pull.

cbloveday
09-01-10, 11:57 AM
One thing is for sure, the numbers are all over the place. Must be the tuning and/or dyno.

So I am leaning toward 7/31/2010 pulls where there was no tuning. I am comfortable with the 8-10 rwhp without tuning.

e6t
09-01-10, 12:28 PM
One thing is for sure, the numbers are all over the place. Must be the tuning and/or dyno.

So I am leaning toward 7/31/2010 pulls where there was no tuning. I am comfortable with the 8-10 rwhp without tuning.

its a HUGE range... 8 hp cant be felt... 28 hp could be felt...

Jeffrey
09-01-10, 05:57 PM
so are you guys implying that the dyno results posted by the airaid guys is not accurate?

Hi,

All along (look at all the early threads on the subject) I questioned those dyno comparisons. I believe that those dyno comparisions are not a fair representation of the actual benefit of going from a stock airbox to an Airaid. I went from a stock (LS3) airbox to an Airaid on my '09 base coupe Vette and picked up around 8 horses. I suspect that's about what you'll gain with the V given that the stock airbox is not overly restrictive. I continue to doubt that any other CAI will give you more than 12 horses compared to the stock V airbox.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

Jeffrey
09-01-10, 06:01 PM
Hi,

I should add that I bought an Airaid (KPE), for my V, but have not installed it yet.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

PhxTriode
09-02-10, 12:18 PM
Comparing A CAI from a naturally aspirated vehicle to a force inducted vehicle is not a fair representation either. Far more demand is put not only on the ability of the CAI to flow without turbulence around the MAF, but also the flow of the filter attached to it on a forced inducted vehicle. Even more so when your are pushing beyond stock boost.

After using a few CAI on my setup I found one that causes the least amount of turbulence to the MAF and the best flow in the area the car spends 98% of its life...

It does me no good if it flows good on top and does nothing or reduces power in the middle of the curve.

Just something to consider.

Jeffrey
09-02-10, 01:34 PM
Comparing A CAI from a naturally aspirated vehicle to a force inducted vehicle is not a fair representation either. Far more demand is put not only on the ability of the CAI to flow without turbulence around the MAF, but also the flow of the filter attached to it on a forced inducted vehicle. Even more so when your are pushing beyond stock boost.

Hi,

I agree. That fact was pointed out to me when I challenged the @20+ hp claims in the original Airaid threads. Multiple posters felt 20+ hp gains were possible using similar logic to what you stated above.

Nevertheless, I still think those @20+ hp claims are not accurate. I suspect you could remove all CAI restrictions, merely by removing the stock airbox, and not get a 20+ hp gain.

Best regards,
Jeffrey

Gary Wells
09-02-10, 04:26 PM
I would be very surprised if any CAI system currently manufactured and / or kitted for our cars will gain any more than 8 RWHP over the stock system, everything else being equal. And I would bet that there are some that get less than that.

cbloveday
09-03-10, 12:43 AM
hi,

i agree. That fact was pointed out to me when i challenged the @20+ hp claims in the original airaid threads. Multiple posters felt 20+ hp gains were possible using similar logic to what you stated above.

Nevertheless, i still think those @20+ hp claims are not accurate. I suspect you could remove all cai restrictions, merely by removing the stock airbox, and not get a 20+ hp gain.

Best regards,
jeffrey

x2


i would be very surprised if any cai system currently manufactured and / or kitted for our cars will gain any more than 8 rwhp over the stock system, everything else being equal. And i would bet that there are some that get less than that.

x2