: Luxury or near-luxury sedans with manual transmissions? (Bought a Volvo, road trip)



Jesda
08-27-10, 01:24 AM
Midsize or larger, four doors, last 10 or 12 years, whats out there? I made an offer on a Lincoln LS V6.

So far Ive come up with:
Jaguar X Type
Cadillac CTS
BMW 3-series
BMW 5-series
Saab 9-3
Maxima
Jaguar S-type

greencadillacmatt
08-27-10, 03:38 AM
Is this just as a second car, or is it Ducky replacement?

Playdrv4me
08-27-10, 04:13 AM
Is this just as a second car, or is it Ducky replacement?

It is a second RELIABLE car.

Night Wolf
08-27-10, 04:28 AM
Just buy another 5-series, you know you miss your old one :)

I used to really like the LS and was considering it - only way I would get one was with a manual transmission. Then I read a lot about the V6 being nothing special and the manual transmission not offering the type of enjoyment I was looking for. If I wanted an automatic, then a V8 would be nice.... but atleast for me in a sporty manual shift midsize luxury car, the LS went off the list.

Then the fact that I just really like the 5-series too, e28, e34 and e39 flavors.... which gives me quite a broad range to choose from if I was in the market for a fun manual shift midsize luxury car...

ga_etc
08-27-10, 04:33 AM
It is a second RELIABLE car.

One without a target on it?

Playdrv4me
08-27-10, 04:49 AM
One without a target on it?

Precisely.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-27-10, 08:23 AM
Out of that list, I'd definitely go for an E39 BMW. But, you're forgetting Audi A4's and A6's (hey, not something I'd buy, but I'm just throwing it out there), and the Acura TL, Infiniti G35, Lexus IS, Volvo S40/S60.

Jesda
08-27-10, 08:28 AM
Whoa, good call on the S60. I wonder how dependable they are

ben.gators
08-27-10, 08:31 AM
Whoa, good call on the S60. I wonder how dependable they are

I am not sure we can call S60 a luxury or near luxury car... but they are damn good cars. I have heard bad stuff about S40, but S60 and S80 seem to be very reliable.

ted tcb
08-27-10, 09:44 AM
If reliable is your number 1 priority, I'd take a Maxima for a spin.
Our 1998 GLE never misses a beat, and every option still faithfully works.
The 3L motor still pulls like a freight train, and its amazing in the winter time.

I hear the newer models aren't quite as bulletproof as the older Japanese built platforms,
but they are so cheap, how can you lose.
I still like the style of the 2000-03 Max, and the VQ30 V6 is still one of the smoothest mills out there.

You could pick up a well maintained SE model, leather , roof, heated seats and steering wheel, Bose, etc.,
for well under $10k.

It would serve you well over the cold St. Louis winter season.

Jesda
08-28-10, 07:46 AM
Hello from Atlanta. Going to see my Lincoln tomorrow. They took my offer.

ben.gators
08-28-10, 07:52 AM
Hello from Atlanta. Going to see my Lincoln tomorrow. They took my offer.

huh, good it means a new road trip for you a new fun thread full of pics for us! :D

CIWS
08-28-10, 07:58 AM
Infiniti has versions of their G sedans they call 6MT (6 manual transmission) but I'm betting there's not a lot out there, certainly a few more in the coupe version.

Edit - here's an example -

http://www.cars.com/go/search/detail.jsp?tracktype=usedcc&csDlId=&csDgId=&listingId=41694827&listingRecNum=2&criteria=prMx%3D22000%26sf1Dir%3DDESC%26prMn%3D0%2 6mkId%3D20019%26stkTyp%3DU%26bsId%3D20211%26mdId%3 D21179%26rd%3D250%26crSrtFlds%3DstkTypId-feedSegId-mkId-mdId-pseudoPrice-bsId%26zc%3D75235%26rn%3D0%26PMmt%3D1-1-0%26stkTypId%3D28881%26sf2Dir%3DASC%26sf1Nm%3Dpric e%26sf2Nm%3Dmiles%26rpp%3D50%26feedSegId%3D28705&aff=national

Night Wolf
08-28-10, 09:03 AM
Hello from Atlanta. Going to see my Lincoln tomorrow. They took my offer.

Hello from 90min away!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-28-10, 09:46 AM
I wonder what color his Lincoln LS will be?? Or will it be a Continental...? 90% sure it'll be a LS, but you never know...

How do the V8 Lincoln LS's compare with a 98-03 STS?

hueterm
08-28-10, 09:55 AM
Yeah, I think it's an LS based on the earlier post.

Vs. STS -- meh...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-28-10, 10:35 AM
I'd take an STS hands down, but I wonder how the driving dynamics compare?

Playdrv4me
08-28-10, 10:38 AM
He could easily have picked up an STS, but like Rick, he has an obsession with rowing his own gears and his convertible is unfortunately an Auto. The STS simply can't compete in that department regardless of what you throw in it. Not necessarily my cup of tea either (I personally would want a 2003 V8 Premium with the THX Audio, touchscreen Nav and heated and cooled seats if I were gonna go the LS route), but fits perfectly within his criteria.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-28-10, 10:50 AM
So can you confirm or deny that Jesda bought a LS?

Stingroo
08-28-10, 11:10 AM
I like the LS. Sharp looking car. I want one, actually.

Jesda
08-28-10, 03:44 PM
Hello from 90min away!

I mapped out your place yesterday, but it would add 220 mi to my trip. :/ I'm up in Roswell. You should move to the north side. These suburbs are pretty! They'd probably frown on a DIYer though.




I'm seeing the car in an hour. I gave them a $300 deposit and they have it waiting for me nearby. Its a 2001 LS V6 with a manual and alpine stereo, black, 130k. Was a government-owned fleet car for most of its life (what city buys $33k (unadjusted for inflation since 2001) cars for its employees?), no accident history, though the front lower grille is missing a piece, possibly a tow hook cover.

There's also a Volvo S60 with leather, nav, and manual trans for $6k in Duluth, but thats $1500 more than the price I negotiated on the Lincoln.

For a while I was dead set on a Boxster, and even set aside additional funds for engine replacement if it ever needed it, but then I was like... "Why?" I have more school coming up and I'd like to start another business, so toys like that can wait. Slowly restoring an old Swedish car is fun but an ongoing expense, so I needed something a little more practical.

hueterm
08-28-10, 03:50 PM
...(what city buys $33k (unadjusted for inflation since 2001) cars for its employees?)

mmmm.....the vice squad???

Stingroo
08-28-10, 03:51 PM
V6? Booooo.

You couldn't get a V8 and the manual with the LS?

hueterm
08-28-10, 03:51 PM
I don't think so...

I don't really have to worry about such things, as I don't know how to drive a stick...

...nor do I really have a desire to learn(!)

:hide:

Stingroo
08-28-10, 03:52 PM
Also $33,000 in 2001 is $40,000 in 2009 dollars.

orconn
08-28-10, 05:44 PM
It does seem strange that a city would buy or lease a "stick" shift car, but then municipalities and states did lease vehicles for certain employees (California leased executive level cars for State legislators, and I imagine many other State employees) so The leasing of a LS wouldn't surprise me.

I hope you like the the stick shift, V6 Lincoln LS better then I did when I gave one an extensive test drive back in 2000. After testing the car out (I liked the idea of a stick for a change) both my wife (very knowledgeable and opinionated about the cars she drives) and I thought the 2000 Catera was a much better rendition of a Euro executive sedan and leased one for her business car. I don't seem to remember the LS coming in a stick V-8 configeuration with stick, but with the V-8s starting in the high $30K in 2000 we weren't tempted to check it out when their were so many good alternaternatives in the low $40K segment of the market at the time.

ga_etc
08-28-10, 07:37 PM
I mapped out your place yesterday, but it would add 220 mi to my trip. :/ I'm up in Roswell. You should move to the north side. These suburbs are pretty! They'd probably frown on a DIYer though.

How bout a stop in Dalton? If you're heading North up I-75 I'm on the way...

Stingroo
08-28-10, 07:41 PM
I don't think so...

I don't really have to worry about such things, as I don't know how to drive a stick...

...nor do I really have a desire to learn(!)

:hide:

I can drive stick okay-ish. I want to learn to get better, though. I've thought about grabbing a little beater car and messing around with it, but I'd never have the time (only allowed one parking permit on campus, etc. etc.) so it'll be awhile for me.

hueterm
08-28-10, 09:48 PM
Actually, I wish I had learned to drive on one when I was a teenager, so at least I'd know how to now... Even if I did know how to drive one, I wouldn't want one as a DD, only a toy...

Jesda
08-28-10, 10:24 PM
A stressful day -- I got pretty pissed at the dealer with the Lincoln. My sales guy and the girl doing the paperwork were really nice people, but this other sales guy I encountered was a dick. He was rude to us and refused to allow the dog inside to cool off.

They let the dog in and apologized to me but I was pissed at the other guy. I sat there for a minute fuming, telling them I needed a moment to calm down before we proceeded further. I asked for my envelope of cash back, took my money and left.

I went to another dealer with a Volvo S60 T5, loaded with white leather, dolby pro logic, pop-up nav, and a 5-speed manual. It cost me about $900 more, but it was worth it ($5300 out the door).

Props to Chad for suggesting Volvo. Its a really nice car with gobs of power and an outstanding interior that feels like a trendy Swedish lounge.

Full set of pics and detailed rage story when I get home.

hueterm
08-28-10, 10:58 PM
Oh yeah....S60 T5:hitstick: LS V6...

Stingroo
08-28-10, 11:00 PM
HA lolz @ Lincoln dealer. *******s really can make or break sales.

hueterm
08-28-10, 11:03 PM
Hot dog was hot...

OK Seriously -- how many people, plus the dog, were in the Prelude? It's not like there's a lot of room in there.....

Stingroo
08-28-10, 11:15 PM
Hot dog was hot...

I lol'd.

Hooray 5,000 posts :thumbsup:

ben.gators
08-28-10, 11:35 PM
S60 T5, that is a nice car! and you can have a lot of fun with it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAnsJSurEQU

hueterm
08-28-10, 11:46 PM
Hot dog was hot...

OK Seriously -- how many people, plus the dog, were in the Prelude? It's not like there's a lot of room in there.....

My guess is Jesda, Ian, and Jesda's brother whose Prelude they were in -- and who probably was stuck in the back w/the dog....

That's probably why the Lincoln place was so dicky -- they figured you weren't crazy enough to drive back to STL in the Prelude and the sale was theirs.... :rofl:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-28-10, 11:51 PM
Cool, congrats! Glad I could help. :)

ted tcb
08-28-10, 11:52 PM
Jesda, king of Swedish cars!

Maybe you should call up the newly single Elin Nordegren/Woods,
and show her your empathy towards her native land:)

Nice move on the Volvo!

hueterm
08-28-10, 11:57 PM
HAHAHAHAHAHAHA ROFL....!

He'd be labeled as a stalker for sure....

orconn
08-29-10, 12:23 AM
A stressful day -- I got pretty pissed at the dealer with the Lincoln. My sales guy and the girl doing the paperwork were really nice people, but this other sales guy I encountered was a dick. He was rude to us and refused to allow the dog inside to cool off.

They let the dog in and apologized to me but I was pissed at the other guy. I sat there for a minute fuming, telling them I needed a moment to calm down before we proceeded further. I asked for my envelope of cash back, took my money and left.

I went to another dealer with a Volvo S60 T5, loaded with white leather, dolby pro logic, pop-up nav, and a 5-speed manual. It cost me about $900 more, but it was worth it ($5300 out the door).

Props to Chad for suggesting Volvo. Its a really nice car with gobs of power and an outstanding interior that feels like a trendy Swedish lounge.

Full set of pics and detailed rage story when I get home.

Personally I think one good old beagle did you a big favor today! I don't think you would have enjoyed the LS for very long. In my experience the LS V-6 stick just felt like an inferior car, even back in 2000. So here's to hot hound dogs and assinine car salesman may each get what they deserve!

Night Wolf
08-29-10, 12:47 AM
S60 T5, that is a nice car! and you can have a lot of fun with it....

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JAnsJSurEQU

Looks like the Ferarri backed off due to traffic and then the Volvo did a ricer flyby?

ben.gators
08-29-10, 02:06 AM
^^^

Yes, it seems so, at the beginning Ferrari took the lead easily, and after showing his car's power to Volvo he simply left the race as the winner as he reduced the speed... I did not post the photo because Volvo killed the Ferrari (Indeed it did not), it was just amazing for me to see how the Volvo with this little engine can accelerate so high and goes with 240 KM/H!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-29-10, 10:11 AM
Jesda (the newly crowned Swedish King of the forums), I was doing a little research on your newly acquired S60, and back in 2002, it retailed for $32,000 which is really nothing for what you're getting in that car. It was the cheapest car in it's class, way cheaper than the 5 Series, A6, E Class, GS and even the 9-5. It's 243hp 2.3L I-5 (jeez that's tiny) brings it from 0-60 in 6.5 seconds so it's a lot faster than Ducky too, and right up there with that Q45 you had way back when. The S60 was also a brand new model for 2001, before that it was the S70.

Here, enjoy this.
http://www.youtube.com/user/bajabusta#p/search/11/cL71Jn1ny3c


I like Volvos too. I like how they're not as widely loved or as desirable as a Mercedes or BMW, but they're still a solid luxury offering, and their interiors are unlike any other luxury cars, with their cool yet modern distinctly Swedish feel. I looked at a few of those C30s before I bought the Regal....very nice for their class, but too small for me and too much money!!

hueterm
08-29-10, 10:51 AM
I rented one in Miami when I was there last December, and it was VERY nice. The seats were VERY comfortable. I'd have to go for an S80 for the size if I were to ever buy one, but the S60 was a great mid-size car.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-29-10, 11:04 AM
I like the S80s too, especially with the V8. Everyone says their seats are so comfortable, but how so....just all the right support in the right places or what?

hueterm
08-29-10, 11:13 AM
They're not too bolstered, they're supportive, but soft, and the design of the headrest lets you keep your head pressed against it without it leaning back -- so you can totally see and drive, yet relax.

Their V6s are pretty good -- but I'm sure the V8 would be awesome.

If we had a dealer here, I'd probably already have an S80...

hueterm
08-29-10, 11:19 AM
Chad -- go take a look:

http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/vdp.jsp?ct=u&car_id=285158536&dealer_id=100022560&car_year=2002&rdm=1283091410978&lastStartYear=1981&model=S80&num_records=25&systime=&make2=&highlightFirstMakeModel=&start_year=1981&keywordsfyc=&keywordsrep=&engine=&certified=&body_code=0&fuel=&awsp=false&search_type=both&distance=500&marketZipError=false&search_lang=en&showZipError=y&make=VOLVO&filter_change=no_results_inc_srch_area_up&keywords_display=&color=&page_location=findacar%3A%3Aispsearchform&min_price=&drive=&default_sort=priceDESC&seller_type=b&max_mileage=60000&style_flag=1&sort_type=priceDESC&address=72712&advanced=y&end_year=2005&doors=&transmission=&max_price=&cardist=597&standard=false

orconn
08-29-10, 03:19 PM
Volvo has been in the forefront of comfortable seat design sing the 1950's. My brother-in-law had a 1957 P144 and it had superior seats for the time. I remember taking 3 or 4 hour trips in it and feeling much better than the same amount of time in my dad's Cadillac! Volvo's have been good solid "executive" cars since the 1980's. They handled decently and were very comfortable, but I was always turned off by their miniscule sized, but turbo charged engines. The turbo lag was a killer for me, especially since most of my driving was in the city where turbo lag was really a problem (most of the time you were driving a car with the tiny engine since the turbo never got wound enough to have an impact, so they were ultra slow. My other problem with Volvo's ist the dead steering. I am very conscious of how much feel one gets throught the steering wheel and Volvo has minimum feel dead on center and not much feedback throughout its' range. When it came to actually putting out the cash for a car the dead steering was always a killer for Volvo! Otherwise I, too, would have had an S80 a long time ago.

ga_etc
08-29-10, 08:20 PM
Just got home from the funeral home and having lunch with Jedsa and Ian. The S60 is in quite nice shape and I dig the color in person. I approve. :thumbsup: Doesn't hurt that it was a GA car too lol.

ben.gators
08-30-10, 12:49 AM
Just got home from the funeral home and having lunch with Jedsa and Ian. The S60 is in quite nice shape and I dig the color in person. I approve. :thumbsup: Doesn't hurt that it was a GA car too lol.

it is nice to see CF members catch up outside as well...

Stingroo
08-30-10, 01:02 AM
Ben you should try and come to one of the meets. It was awesome having that weekend here, and I bet the Chicago meets have been just as fun. Same for Minneapolis. :)

ga_etc
08-30-10, 01:08 AM
it is nice to see CF members catch up outside as well...

It is indeed. It was really cool to meet Jesda and Ian.

Stingroo
08-30-10, 01:21 AM
And Josiah is going to drag you to a Jacksonville meet, if we have to. :lol:

ben.gators
08-30-10, 01:24 AM
Ben you should try and come to one of the meets. It was awesome having that weekend here, and I bet the Chicago meets have been just as fun. Same for Minneapolis. :)

Yes, I should do... This summer I stuck at Tempe. it was horrible. I stayed here to wrap up some of the works I have been doing and submit the papers... but my advisor was out of town most of the time and at the end no paper is submitted so far and no vocation I have had.... I need to get out of the town for a while.

ga_etc
08-30-10, 01:25 AM
ORLY? lol

Stingroo
08-30-10, 01:39 AM
Yarly.

ga_etc
08-30-10, 01:42 AM
WTF is "yarly"?

Stingroo
08-30-10, 01:43 AM
The answer to ORLY. You should pay attention to your Internet more. lol

ga_etc
08-30-10, 01:48 AM
Oh. MOAR INTERNETZ?

ben.gators
08-30-10, 02:27 AM
It is indeed. It was really cool to meet Jesda and Ian.

Yeah, it should be....BTW, I have a question for you! In real life Is Jesda as weired as he is in the forum or not? :D

ga_etc
08-30-10, 03:39 AM
You're not the first person to ask that lol. They were only here for 2 hours or so before they had to hit the road, so I can't give in depth info. But from the time we talked, he seemed to be really cool, as does Ian. From reading his posts on here and then talking to him in person, he came across as very much the same person and I felt that the three of us got along really well.

Stingroo
08-30-10, 08:31 AM
Yeah, it should be....BTW, I have a question for you! In real life Is Jesda as weired as he is in the forum or not? :D

Bahahahaha I asked him the same question!

Jesda, we love you. :D (But I could live without the Ace of Base, myself :p)

Jesda
08-30-10, 08:42 AM
I originally intended to buy a 2001 Lincoln LS with 130k, manual transmission, V6, and Alpine stereo. '01 also introduced AdvanceTrac. The asking price was $4999.

Ian's Lexus was in the shop, so I drove my brother's Prelude.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00452-20100827-1406.jpg
I woke up and checked my email, and my offer on a Lincoln LS was accepted.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7391.jpg
The dog (this was his first road trip) wasn't too pleased with squeezing into the back and trying to sleep, but he had no choice.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7396.jpg
I pretty much had to shove him in there. Getting him to voluntarily jump in the back was almost impossible.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7397.jpg
"This sucks."

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00453-20100827-1647.jpg
Saw this awesome vanity plate on a G8.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00456-20100827-1940.jpg
Found a small town in Illinois with a Wendys. Their mall was pretty quiet and had a subway attached to it which I thought was unusual. Usually you see a Cheesecake Factory.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00458-20100827-1942.jpg
Yes, thats a Jr Bacon.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00460-20100827-2251.jpg
Newton found a spot to pinch a loaf at a rest area.


http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7400.jpg
Found a cupholder back there.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7392.jpg
The driving position is strange, like sticking your arms and legs straight out and staring down, but once you get used to it its reasonably comfortable over long distances. Its a tight fit, but still feels wider and more breathable than the Corolla.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00461-20100827-2345.jpg
I got to this gas station in west Nashville. As soon as I pulled up I was eager to leave. While filling, a big white guy with a Carolina accent walked up to me and asked me for gas money. He pointed at a black 2006+ Cadillac DTS and said, "I work for a security company and I just lot my wallet. Can you help me out? I drive that $53,000 Cadillac over there I can show you my business card." I said, "Uhh, sorry man." He replied, "Thanks anyway" and jumped in his Cadillac and drove off. The LAST thing I wanted to do in that neighborhood was whip out my wallet stuffed with fifties and hundreds.
Now, let's see... you're in a strange town with no ID and no money. Why the hell would you think getting $1 from a stranger would get you home? If I were him, assuming he wasn't pulling a scam, I'd have found a place to park, slept overnight, and called my bank, my coworkers, my friends, or my family in the morning to arrange a Western Union transfer. The last thing I would do is BEG in a crappy neighborhood.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00462-20100828-0015.jpg
Standard portable sustenance.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7401.jpg
Checked into a Motel 6 in Roswell GA. It was quite terrible. Roswell was an attractive upscale suburb with winding boulevards and high end strip malls.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7402.jpg
$44 per night.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7403.jpg
Pretty darn good gas station food from Racetrac.

Jesda
08-30-10, 08:42 AM
http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7404.jpg
This looks like it dates back to the Reagan era.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7405.jpg
A mysterious open space. I think a prostitute was killed here so they threw away the blood-stained couch.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7406.jpg
At least the bathroom was clean.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7408.jpg

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7409.jpg
A Cuban and some funyuns. Newton apparently hates funyuns.

I slept quite poorly. The room was located near the mechanical/boiler room of the hotel, so the AC was unable to keep up. It was blowing cold, but the room baked. Ian decided to crawl under the desk next to the AC and sleep on the floor while the dog panted all night.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_IMG00463-20100828-1544.jpg

The drive to the dealer (Atlanta Best/Car Online) was stressful. Atlanta is a bizarre mix of all people from all places, NONE OF WHOM CAN DRIVE. On the highway its great. People fly down I-75 at high speeds, but in town they're like New Yorkers. This lady in a green Jaguar S-type pulled out of her left turn lane right in front of me, forcing me to slam my brakes. I gave her a honk, then 20 FEET LATER she stopped again and tried to squeeze back into the left turn lane she just abandoned! I finally squeezed by, put down my window, and yelled "F***ING C***". Normally I'd just honk and move on, but I was cranky and tired.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7412.jpg
Yes, that's a Q45 below.



http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7413.jpg
Here's the Lincoln. The interior was okay. Nothing was torn but there were some carpet stains, a missing vent on the corner of the dash, dirt and ash in the front ash tray (though the car did not smell like smoke), and the shift boot was detached from the center console underneath, so it flopped around.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7414.jpg
The sales guy told me the long plastic center console piece surrounding the shifter was cracked, so he grabbed one from another LS but didnt have time to glue the shift boot in place.

That didn't bother me, but the body...

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7415.jpg
He did tell me that the bumper needed a repaint, but I didnt realize how bad it was.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7416.jpg
The two LSs on the lot were missing this piece of the lower grille.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7417.jpg
It needed a new set of tires too.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7418.jpg
It was previously owned by the city of New Orleans. There was, fortunately, no evidence of flooding from Katrina or a bad title history.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7419.jpg
Ugh.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7420.jpg
I wasn't crazy about the spoiler. More damaged paint and deep scratches.

Jesda
08-30-10, 08:42 AM
http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7422.jpg

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7423.jpg
One thing after another.

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Sheesh.

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Gross.

Despite my disappointment with the physical condition, I test drove the Lincoln anyway.

Ford did an amazing job with the DEW98 platform. Steering was linear and quick and the ride was the perfect compromise between comfort and firmness. The shifts were a bit notchy but throws were short, and the clutch had a nice chunky bite. Brakes were strong and easy to modulate. The duratec V6 had plenty of pull for tooling around town but lacked in passing power on the highway. It was a pretty extensive test drive -- I put $15 of gas in the tank and went over railroad tracks, through local streets, and flew up and down the highway. When we got back, I had a grin on my face and managed to enjoy myself. I didnt see any leaks or smell anything funny, and since I have a body and paint guy who does good work for cheap, I figured why the hell not.

In addition to the tires being low on rubber, the air bag light was on and the cruise didn't work. Fortunately, I did a lot of research the night before and learned that the clock spring was the cause of both of those problems, a reasonably cheap fix. I used that as a bargaining tool to get the price down to $4400 out the door. I told him, "I cant register and insure a car with a faulty airbag. What if I have to replace the whole unit? What if there was an accident? I'm taking a big risk here." He replied, 'I dont have a lot of room in that car.' I said, "Just give me another $200 off and we'll have a deal." I then put my hand out and gestured for him to shake. We then agreed to $100 off my original offer of $4500 for $4400 out the door and shook on it. The car was beat, but it was strong, and it was nothing a few hundred dollars in cosmetic work couldn't handle. A mint LS V6 manual sells for $5500-$6300, so $4400 for an ugly one that I can spit-shine is reasonable.

I went inside and sat down, then asked the girl doing my paperwork if Ian and my dog could come in and cool off. She said sure, so I went out and called him in. As he was walking in, another salesman said "YOU CANT BRING THAT IN HERE NO PETS." The girl and my salesman yelled back across the sales floor, "No its okay its okay! Come in come in!" but this jackass responded, "I DONT WANT PEE ALL OVER THE RUGS YOU CANT COME IN." Well, the sales floor was dirty and the floors were wood. There were only a couple tiny rugs and they were already filthy. Ian said, "Fine, we're not buying the car." We went in, sat down, and I was pretty pissed. Both my salesman and the cashier were like, "Im so sorry that guy's an a**hole. I dont know what his problem is." I said, "You know, I'm from the midwest, we don't treat people like that." I sat there fuming quietly and asked her to hand back my envelope full of cash. I told the guy I wanted to go look at a Volvo that was nearby. He reminded me that my $300 deposit was non-refundable, but I told him I didn't care.

I got to a shell station and two cute girls were trying to pull the same BS that the guy in the black Cadillac did in Nashville the night before. They waved and asked us to roll down the window, then in a sweet southern voice asked for money to get to the MARTA (transit) station because they supposedly lost their credit cards. Ian was polite to her, but after the shit I endured over this trip the last thing I wanted to do was be nice to anyone. She lucked out by approaching the passenger window, because I'd have told her to stop being an irresponsible cumbucket and stop begging in the street.

45 minutes later my salesman at Car Online (what a stupid name for a dealership) called me to apologize again. He said he talked to the owner and the owner was sorry about what the other salesman said. Well, I'd have preferred a call from the owner directly, but whatever. He said the guy apparently had problems at home. I told him I appreciated the followup but I was already going to see the Volvo, and if I didn't like it I'd maybe call him back. He also offered to give back my deposit to show some contrition for what happened. I think what surprised that dealership was how little I cared about $300 (what they probably thought would be their hook), proof that I was genuinely pissed and wasn't messing around.

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Went further out in the suburbs, away from all the morons who can't drive, the beggars, and the sleazy idiots, and found a very nice dealership with a great selection of mostly European cars. They even had a Maserati Spyder for $40k.

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This Volvo, to my surprise, was beautiful. I didnt think I'd like it because I hate the 80s/90s-style black plastic all around the car, but because the paint was a dark green/blue/gray, it all blended in nicely.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7429.jpg
Its a T5 with a 5-cylinder turbo and 5-speed manual. 116k, asking price $5999.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7430.jpg
Sharp 17" wheels.

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One cosmetic flaw -- this scrape and ding on the driver side. One tire was flat, so they took the car to a tire shop and put a new one on for me. Unfortunately, the other three tires are due for replacement.

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This pop-up nav unit is clever. The controls take some getting used to -- there's a Nintendo-style directional pad on the back of the steering wheel.

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Since they didn't take credit cards, I drove to a Wal-Mart nearby and picked up a $1000 money order to supplement my cash.

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The owner and the salesman were both very friendly people. The guy who owned the place (called Sean Auto Sales) was from Iran. They both owned dogs and offered Newton some water and a treat.

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There's the cash and the keys. We did the paperwork, I thanked him for the excellent deal his kindness and was on my way. Whats funny is that when I shared with him my horror story during the test drive, he said, "Let me guess, was the dealer called Atlanta Best?" I LOL'd.

We went back and forth for a while as I tried to get him down to $5,000. He got down to $5700 with the warranty, then $5500 without. I asked for $5300, then pushed for $5250. He said, "Well, $50 isn't going to make you or me rich." He had a point. We shook hands on $5300 out the door, a price we were both satisfied with.

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Parked at Motel 6 in Norcross (MUCH nicer than the last location).

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Three cupholders -- one in the dash and two in the center console below.

Jesda
08-30-10, 08:43 AM
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Happy to be out of the Prelude.

http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7437.jpg
Volvo calls this the "SPACEBALL" shifter, an optional feature. This is the coolest damn thing I've ever seen.

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A diagram.

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$39.99 Motel 6 in Norcross, much cleaner with functional AC.

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Uhh, you share, dog.

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It started raining and I quickly discovered that my wipers were shot, rubber flapping around like a limp dick. Stopped at Wal-Mart and picked up some Michelin Radius wipers which work BEAUTIFULLY.

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Went to Fat Matt's for ribs. Live blues music, great service, AWESOME RIBS. The location is interesting, surrounded on all sides by strip clubs. Factoid: Fat Matt's was mentioned in the movie "Up In The Air"

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I ordered a full rack with sweet potato pie, potato salad, and beans.

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This whole parking thing is foreign to me.

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Went to Walgreens to pick up some CDs. I didn't know until reading the manual that I had a 4-disc changer.

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Got back to the hotel with a full stomach and read through my owners manual. Volvo owners tend to be paranoid about safety, which apparently includes nuclear disasters.

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OH REALLY? GREAT ADVICE.

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For some reason, the owners manual had dealer info for the UK.

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This business card from West Yorkshire was in there, inexplicably. Did this car spend some of its life in the United Kingdom?

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List of UK dealers.

Jesda
08-30-10, 08:43 AM
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The floor mats (which came in the trunk) have large pegs for mounting. Toyota should take note.

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Neat little vents in the B-pillar for back seat passengers. Unfortunately, something in this area of the car was rattling and I couldnt figure out what it was.

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Roomy.

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Met up with Austin (ga_etc on Caddy forum) in Dalton GA. He arrived in his aunt's horrible rental car, a Yaris.

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I MISS SCHLOTZSKY'S

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Ugh, center gauge pod.

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I dont understand how a car almost as TALL as me can have so little head room! I sat in the back and my head was touching the roof -- I'm 5'9"

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Cool feature -- When the car detects odors or pollutants in the air, it automatically switches to recirculate. I didnt pay attention to the button, but I didnt smell anything foul on my drive home so it must have worked.

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Leaving Chattanooga, climbing some hills.

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Dog looked thirsty. Got him some water.

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Unfortunately, the car only came with the nav CD for the southeast, so I used my phone to find things. I also have no idea where the nav CD drive is installed. I didn't even know what model year the car was when I bought it. I took it for a brief spin, felt the turbo throw me back in my seat, and said "OKAY IM SOLD." For such an impulsive decision, it sure is practical.

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Stopped at the Wal-Mart in Smyrna TN just across from the big Nissan complex.

Jesda
08-30-10, 08:43 AM
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Stocked up on dog treats and music. Unfortunately, the CDs in this 2-disc set were poorly manufactured. Tracks 2-5 skipped badly. >:(

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Stopped at a gas station in Illinois.
"I can has sandwich?"
'NO DOG, YOU CANT. Okay, a little bit.'

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Yes, I seriously got 30mpg on the trip doing 70mph.

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I topped off in Dalton GA and didnt refill until I got home, and even then I still had a quarter tank remaining.

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Went for a car wash after getting some gas but the wash bay was closed. The clerk said he couldnt give me a refund without his manager there to override the system and do it. Im not sure why the hell the gas pump sold me a car wash if the f***ing car wash wasnt open. He decided to open the wash for me anyway and I thanked him for it.

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Dog started shaking in fear. He hates rain.

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Nasty goo left from where the Sirius satellite antenna was. I'll have to remove this tomorrow.


I'll post a deeper review of the car later. It was superbly comfortable, quiet, and efficient on the drive home. The dolby pro logic sound system is incredible. I still miss the Lincoln (maybe not that particular one), but I'm very pleased with what I got. What's also nice is that the guy who works on my Saab can work on my Volvo since he does only Swedish vehicles. He's reliable and cheap and does pickup and dropoff service at no charge.

CIWS
08-30-10, 08:47 AM
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pretty darn good gas station food from racetrac.



Danger Will Robinson !

Playdrv4me
08-30-10, 09:16 AM
Danger Will Robinson !

LMAO. Awesome.

hueterm
08-30-10, 09:28 AM
Oh yeah -- I'm surprised there was a set of pics from the emergency room after eating that thing.........

V-Eight
08-30-10, 11:05 AM
Congrats on the car, looks like a great find!

billc83
08-30-10, 11:29 AM
First off: Congrats on the purchase, Jesda!

I think you made the right choice by passing on the LS; it really looks like it's had a hard life. The Volvo far and away looks like the better choice.

ted tcb
08-30-10, 11:59 AM
Nice writeup, as usual, Jesda.

Boy, you can certainly see the difference in pride of ownership between the two vehicles you inspected.
The Lincoln screams abuse, while somebody definitely cared for that Volvo.

Enjoy your new ride!

orconn
08-30-10, 01:16 PM
That Lincoln LS was ridden hard and put away wet! Not a good scenario for a used car. Glad to hear our relief money went for Lincolns in New Orleans .... things never change, I quess!

S70RMP
08-30-10, 01:54 PM
http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7446.jpg
This business card from West Yorkshire was in there, inexplicably. Did this car spend some of its life in the United Kingdom?


Thats 40 miles from me :-)

drewsdeville
08-30-10, 02:08 PM
I'm really intrigued so I'm gonna ask...why did you bring the dog to a dealer while car shopping of all places?

As a dealer, I wouldn't have thrown the fit that this particular one did but I'm not sure I'd be thrilled about the idea. There's some wild/hyper dogs out there that would really go nuts in a dealer lot, peeing all over tires, jumping on cars, trying to jump INTO cars with open windows, annoying the customers...etc. It's just not the place for an animal. If I had a lot with $500,000-$1 mil worth of cars that I bought on it, I probably wouldn't be pleased either.

Not that yours would do any of that but no one knows that. I think I'd share his viewpoint towards a strangers dog though I would have handled it differently.

Jesda
08-30-10, 04:30 PM
The alternative to bringing the dog was leaving him at home to feed himself for three days. They call that animal neglect in my county and would gladly arrest you for doing that. And no, there was no hotel to leave the dog at since I checked out. The plan was to go to Altanta, buy THIS Lincoln, and go directly home, not "shop around". I already called on the car, asked a lot of questions, made a deposit, and told them I was traveling through five states to come get it.

I've encountered some awful and unruly dogs before. Who knows, he might have gone inside the dealership with no cars in it, grabbed the keys, run outside, and driven around the lot and killed people. Toonces the cat was a menace behind the wheel -- every Saturday for years you saw footage on NBC of him killing innocent people. Even worse, I think Newton has a thing for M3s and AMGs. I don't need the headache of him being arrested and me having to bail him out.


Here's the appropriate response:
"Oh, sorry sir, but we'll get in trouble if the dog comes in. Sorry about that."
'Oh okay no big deal'


But greasy guys with slicked back hair in Ed Hardy t-shirts don't understand social norms. They just shout orders. This insanity where three people are yelling across a room at each other arguing while a customer just stands there like 'wtf' is unnerving and bizarre. Maybe they communicate that way in New York or Miami (and apparently Atlanta?) -- all signs that you don't want to do business with them. It seems their reputation follows them around Atlanta.

You see, Drew, the issue isn't whether the dog is allowed in. The moral of the story involves attitudes, communication, and rudeness. Southern hospitality, as Austin astutely observed, is selective.

I felt a bit bad for the salesman who was friendly and easy to work with -- he had his "locked in" deal ruined by some angry jackass whose wife was probably banging the neighborhood.

drewsdeville
08-30-10, 05:05 PM
The alternative to bringing the dog was leaving him at home to feed himself for three days. They call that animal neglect in my county and would gladly arrest you for doing that. And no, there was no hotel to leave the dog at since I checked out. The plan was to go to Altanta, buy THIS Lincoln, and go directly home, not "shop around". I already called on the car, asked a lot of questions, made a deposit, and told them I was traveling through five states to come get it.

I've encountered some awful and unruly dogs before. Who knows, he might have gone inside the dealership with no cars in it, grabbed the keys, run outside, and driven around the lot and killed people. Toonces the cat was a menace behind the wheel -- every Saturday for years you saw footage on NBC of him killing innocent people. Even worse, I think Newton has a thing for M3s and AMGs. I don't need the headache of him being arrested and me having to bail him out.


Here's the appropriate response:
"Oh, sorry sir, but we'll get in trouble if the dog comes in. Sorry about that."
'Oh okay no big deal'


But greasy guys with slicked back hair in Ed Hardy t-shirts don't understand social norms. They just shout orders. This insanity where three people are yelling across a room at each other arguing while a customer just stands there like 'wtf' is unnerving and bizarre. Maybe they communicate that way in New York or Miami (and apparently Atlanta?) -- all signs that you don't want to do business with them. It seems their reputation follows them around Atlanta.

You see, Drew, the issue isn't whether the dog is allowed in. The moral of the story involves attitudes, communication, and rudeness. Southern hospitality, as Austin astutely observed, is selective.

I felt a bit bad for the salesman who was friendly and easy to work with -- he had his "locked in" deal ruined by some angry jackass whose wife was probably banging the neighborhood.

Ah ok, I assumed you'd have friends/family to dog sit for you.

I agree, it's not about the dog being allowed in. I agree that the attitude you recieved was poor. Just asking about, what I found to be, the strange initial decision.

Jesda
08-30-10, 05:11 PM
Indeed, I really do wish I had someone at home who could take him in once in a while. Everyone I know is too busy to do the daily routine, unfortunately.

hueterm
08-30-10, 05:25 PM
So is the dog the reason for the Motel 6s?

Playdrv4me
08-30-10, 05:32 PM
So is the dog the reason for the Motel 6s?

Yep. They have the most lenient pet policy of any hotel around, and when you shop for hotels on Priceline or Expedia Secret Hotels there is no pet option.

Motel 6 from my experience are generally very acceptable, but there are some REALLY sketchy ones out there. If you are driving along the interstate its usually easy to tell which ones to avoid and which ones are fairly new. The first Motel 6 we stayed at was in a former Baymont Inn building (those pyramid shaped hotels) that had been abandoned by Baymont, and it was easy to see why. It stunk, it was in disrepair and very old. The second Motel 6 was a purpose built Motel 6 and far better. The former Baymont one was honestly probably at the very bottom end of what is acceptable to maintain the Motel 6 franchise, and will likely be a "Relax Inn" in 2 years time.

Motel 6 also has their very nice Studio 6 properties and whereas pets are free at Motel 6, Studio 6 charges a very modest 10.00 deposit.

hueterm
08-30-10, 05:42 PM
Isn't La Quinta pretty good on pets? I hope so....those 6s looked pretty bad....

gdwriter
08-30-10, 05:50 PM
Good dog! I think Newton did you a big favor. That Volvo is worlds nicer than the Lincoln. Hell, Cruella was in better shape when I bought her (at 15 years old and 200,000 miles) than that LS was. It's poor condition and the dealer's lack of effort to make it more presentable spells trouble. If it looks bad, there are likely a lot of mechanical issues and ignored maintenance.

One reason I bought Sabrina without even looking at the other two Sevilles I found was that the car was immaculate and had obviously been well-cared for. That's important for me when buying a used car, especially a high-end one. That you have a trusted mechanic who can also take care of the Volvo is a bonus.

Newton's the opposite of Hoover, who still gets excited whenever I ask if he wants to go for a ride. And I think he enjoys road trips as much as I do. I couldn't ask for a better companion. I completely agree that the issue wasn't that they didn't want Newton in the dealership, it's the way the guy yelled at you. People who are nice to my dog get bonus points; people who are intentionally rude get huge demerits, and I would have walked out, too.

I take Hoover lots of places with me: the local hardware store and oil change place, the tire store when I get a rotation, the local auto parts store, Lowes, and of course Petco. If he were not a very friendly, well-behaved dog, I wouldn't do it, and he's welcome at all of these places. He gets lots of attention (and loves it).

gdwriter
08-30-10, 05:51 PM
LaQuinta also allows pets, but I've generally had good experience with Motel 6. I'm also cheap and only spend a few waking hours in the room. The ones I stayed at last summer in Butte, MT and West Des Moines, IA were very nice; only the one near the Minneapolis airport was kind of crappy.

Playdrv4me
08-30-10, 05:56 PM
Isn't La Quinta pretty good on pets? I hope so....those 6s looked pretty bad....

The problem with La Quinta is that I like things in a standardized, straight-forward fashion and LQ doesn't operate that way. Not only do they rarely if ever participate in any Priceline or Expedia specials (another one who doesn't is Drury) or clearly post the price outside, but their "walk-in" prices are always absurd. Typically around 89.00 a night for something that honestly isn't 50.00 better than the second Motel 6. There was nothing wrong with the second one at all.

Another cool feature Jesda found with Motel 6 is that for 10.00 you can request a late checkout at 2PM or sometimes even 3PM. This again, is a standard feature across the franchise and makes it much easier to pull in somewhere at 430am like we often do and not worry about getting 3 hours of sleep.

I would say that one step up from Motel 6 is probably Super 8, but they also don't like to put their prices on the outside signs so its always a crapshoot when you walk in there. So in essence, if you aren't planning ahead with your online search (either because of a pet, or because as is usually the case with me, I have no idea where I'm going to want to stop exactly) and just want a place to crash when traveling, the Motel 6s are pretty decent. Otherwise the 90.00 spent at Drury or LQ is much better spent with a quick online search for a Hyatt Place, Staybridge Suites, Holiday Inn or similar where you really get taken care of. Although I usually score those for 60 or less, so it makes LQ even less appealing.

gdwriter
08-30-10, 05:57 PM
I don't really have to worry about such things, as I don't know how to drive a stick...OK mister: turn in your man card now.

Even if you don't drive a stick on a regular basis, you should still know how. Chicks get a pass. Don't ask me why. They just do.

I wouldn't mind a stick for a toy; I periodically look on eBay for a first-generation Celica like I drove through high school and college; the shifter on those is very nice.

I was also very proud of the fact that I never stalled out LS1Mike's Trans Am when I took it for a spin last month. I'm the only one of his friends to manage that and it had been almost a year since the last time I drove a stick.

Playdrv4me
08-30-10, 06:03 PM
OK mister: turn in your man card now.

Even if you don't drive a stick on a regular basis, you should still know how. Chicks get a pass. Don't ask me why. They just do.

I wouldn't mind a stick for a toy; I periodically look on eBay for a first-generation Celica like I drove through high school and college; the shifter on those is very nice.

I was also very proud of the fact that I never stalled out LS1Mike's Trans Am when I took it for a spin last month. I'm the only one of his friends to manage that and it had been almost a year since the last time I drove a stick.

Mike, I used to be with you on this one but Gary is right, its time to learn. I may not be great at it, but it only took 15 minutes for Jesda to teach me in a parking lot and I felt as if my balls actually got 2cm larger after I was properly driving that stick Nissan Maxima for a while.

Am I into the whole "gotta have that visceral stick feel" thing that Jesda is? Nope, but its cool to know I can grab a 911 and have some fun if the opportunity arises.

drewsdeville
08-30-10, 06:06 PM
LaQuinta also allows pets, but I've generally had good experience with them. The ones I stayed at last summer in Butte, MT and West Des Moines, IA were very nice; only the one near the Minneapolis airport was kind of crappy.

All of that hoopla trying to organize care and/or trying to find pet friendly places to stay on trips is yet another reason why I loved my year-round outdoor dog to death. Self reliant, little maintenance, and in such good physical shape.

He had a great setup. Unfenced 7/8ths of an acre yard to run free in all year. Dad built him a large sized dog house that was studded, insulated, sided and roofed just like a regular home. 5 gallons of fresh water every day and a feeder that held 50lbs of dog food whenever he wanted. Ate when he was hungry, drank when he was thristy, and ran unleashed and unfenced for 15 years. He was well trained: understood the boundaries of the garden, flower beds, and lot lines without underground fences or shock collars...he never needed to be tied up or watched. He was even trained to do his business in one particular area of the yard. Had an active family that spent much of it's time outdoors, he was never lonely.

When it came time to go on vacation, all we needed was someone to stop by and refresh his water.

That dogs intelligence wrecked me. I now have a hard time appreciating others pets or looking for my own as I instinctively compare every other dog I see to him and it seems there is hardly ever a comparison.

But I guess that's what makes everyones pet special. They love/are proud of them in one way or another. Unforunately, I'm closed minded and never got passed this particular one after he was gone.

gdwriter
08-30-10, 06:41 PM
Hoover is very low maintenance for a Lab. He has the run of the house while I'm at work, and he's never chewed or torn up a thing. And he's nice to the cat. I've gotten very spoiled having such a well-behaved dog. I travel a fair amount — especially this year — and if it's a road trip, Hoover comes with me. Finding dog-friendly lodging is easy, and I love having him along. When I can't take Hoover along, I have a trusted kennel. They like him, and while I'm told he misses me, he adjusts pretty quickly. I have a neighbor who will come over to feed Pepper and give her some attention, so that's never a problem.

gdwriter
08-30-10, 06:44 PM
Am I into the whole "gotta have that visceral stick feel" thing that Jesda is? Nope, but its cool to know I can grab a 911 and have some fun if the opportunity arises.:yeah:

My idea would have been for Ducky to have the stick and the Volvo an auto. But that's not always possible when buying used.

ga_etc
08-30-10, 07:33 PM
That actually turned out to be a decent picture of me. I'm glad everything ended well and you got a great car with killer interstate fuel mileage!

Jesda
08-30-10, 08:00 PM
All of that hoopla trying to organize care and/or trying to find pet friendly places to stay on trips is yet another reason why I loved my year-round outdoor dog to death. Self reliant, little maintenance, and in such good physical shape.

He had a great setup. Unfenced 7/8ths of an acre yard to run free in all year. Dad built him a large sized dog house that was studded, insulated, sided and roofed just like a regular home. 5 gallons of fresh water every day and a feeder that held 50lbs of dog food whenever he wanted.

You should find and post some pics.

I grew up with an outdoor beagle. It was great -- just gave him food and water and threw the ball around and everyone's happy. When leaving town for a long time, the neighbors pitched in on feeding and watering. Low maintenance, healthy, easy. He didn't like being cooped up inside anyway since he came from a large property with a huge pond attached to a river.

But its kind of cool to have the dog snoozing away at the foot of your bed.

Jesda
08-30-10, 08:07 PM
:yeah:

My idea would have been for Ducky to have the stick and the Volvo an auto. But that's not always possible when buying used.

Its kind of funny how that turned out -- the sporty convertible has an ancient 3-speed auto while the luxury car has a manual, one that the manufacturer was proud enough of to decorate with a big silver ball at the bottom.

The convertible also has slower steering, poorer fuel economy, poorer acceleration, and poorer brakes, but I guess that's the difference between a platform that originally came out in 1978 and one that came out in 2001. They're both turbos and the Saab actually has slightly fewer miles.

Bonus: The Volvo is a verified 1-owner car.

I'm curious to see how a Saab 9-5 sedan would drive.

When I'm away from the Saab, I genuinely miss it and can't wait to jump in and go for a drive. There's no logical reason.

gdwriter
08-30-10, 08:13 PM
http://www.q45.org/cpg/albums/userpics/10001/normal_100_7439.jpg
Uhh, you share, dog.Looks familiar. Hoover thinks he should get his own bed. I'll often end up with two doubles, so it works out.

http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc1/hs020.snc1/4244_87364778093_776743093_1732023_2762443_n.jpg

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-30-10, 08:29 PM
Looks awesome Jesda! The S60 is nice and all, and I'm really glad I suggested it, but damn that Schlotzky's looks good! I think I might have to go there for dinner sometime this week.

I'm actually pretty amazed that S60 gets 30 MPG, but I suppose when you've got a 5 (6?) speed manual combined with a tiny 2.3L I-5, it's gonna get good mileage, provided you can keep the boost down.

orconn
08-30-10, 08:47 PM
Here's to Newton, a dog of eminent good sense and superior taste in cars!

gdwriter
08-30-10, 09:15 PM
I wouldn't mind a stick for a toy; I periodically look on eBay for a first-generation Celica like I drove through high school and college; the shifter on those is very nice.If this (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/1972-Celica-ST-NO-RESERVE-/230512366177?pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item35ab9b9261#v4-37) one weren't clear across the country, I'd try to buy it. First-gen Celicas are hard enough to come by, but unmolested ones are even more rare:

http://www.gdwriter.com/72_Celica.jpg

ben.gators
08-30-10, 09:23 PM
Jesda

How does this "SPACEBALL" shifter work and how does it differ from usual stick shifters? I assume putting car into gears is easier... Am I right?

And how is you clutch and gearbox in this S60?

The first and last time I drove a car with manual transmission was a Ford Fiesta, and to be honest it was terrible.... In that car there MUST be always a very precise balance between the amount Clutch is depressed and depression of gas while the driver is changing gears, else the car will shake.... I have heard that in good cars with strong engines such balance is not required. Driver can remove his foot from clutch after changing gear without any need for gas. Is your car some thing like this or it is similar to my old little Fiesta?

hueterm
08-30-10, 09:53 PM
OK mister: turn in your man card — now.



:dflip:

OK you hens -- it's not that I'd necessarily mind learning, it's just never been a priority. Plus, none of my friends have a stick, nor does my dad.

Do people even rent sticks anymore?

drewsdeville
08-30-10, 10:00 PM
Driver can remove his foot from clutch after changing gear without any need for gas. Is your car some thing like this or it is similar to my old little Fiesta?

You mean manually rev matching?

I can't speak for the Volvo but most non-performance manual cars don't come with automatic rev matching. They would do the same thing as your Fiesta.

Even if you aren't a performance driver, rev matching is a good technique to pick up. It's a lot easier on the driveline as a whole and it ensures long life from the syncros. The smoothest shift you will get is a clutchless shift, which I really got a feel for when I drove truck for a few years (where it's really important. If you don't get clutch unloading and rev matching with 80,000 lbs pushing behind you, your gonna break something). It takes a little finesse as you have to learn to unload the clutch with the throttle before you pull it out of gear, then get a somewhat precise rev-match to slip it back in. After a while I could shift my little rusted out Ford Escort smoother than a Rolls Royce auto and it quickly became habit :)

ben.gators
08-30-10, 10:19 PM
You mean manually rev matching?

I can't speak for the Volvo but most non-performance manual cars don't come with automatic rev matching. They would do the same thing as your Fiesta.


Rev matching! It can be the technical name for it, I am not sure... as far as I know rev matching is important when a lower gear is going to be choosen (so engine should work at higher RPMs that it was doing before), and usually professional race drivers do it... As far as I remember (it returns back to 10-12 years ago) I needed to push acceleration when I was changing to a higher gear.... Still I am not sure, I am not a stick shifter driver, but have read in couple of places that with an strong engine working with clutch is easier.

Stingroo
08-30-10, 10:35 PM
Do people even rent sticks anymore?

To teach their children how to drive on one, of course. :lol:

orconn
08-30-10, 11:38 PM
What you are describing is what I remember as "lugging the engine" which in more extreme cases causes the drive train to shudder and buck. Prior to disengaging the clutch it is necessary to give the engine sufficient gas to give the enough power (make enough torque) to smoothly engage the rest of the drive train. Learning the right amount of gas to give the engine sufficient power to avoid "bucking" upon releasing the clutch is a major part of learning to drive stick shift. Larger displacement, particaulary those with longer strikes develop higher torque which allows the engine to more smoothly engage the trans, etc to begin turning the road wheels. Smaller displacement short stroke engines require higher rpm to develop sufficient torque and horsepower to over come a car's inertia standing still and thus begin the process of gaining momentum. Sub or Dkoz can probably explain this phenomenon much better than I.!

I taught my wife to drive stick when she was 40 years old. She caught on very quickly and became a good stick driver and enjoyed it so much she chose to drive the VW Scirocco on her daily commute (forty miles each way).

I find stick shift to be best suited to light cars with smaller displacement engines; when you get into the more powerful engines in heavier cars the stick shift becomes heavier and less agile as a gear shift method. Bigger engines have sufficient power to power automatic transmissions effficently.

Jesda
08-31-10, 12:00 AM
I'm a control freak. I like knowing every single thing going on outside the car, so having a manual adds to that control and creates a unique connection between the driver and the car. But for performance, modern automatics are usually quicker.

ga_etc
08-31-10, 01:10 AM
I'm a control freak. I like knowing every single thing going on outside the car, so having a manual adds to that control and creates a unique connection between the driver and the car. But for performance, modern automatics are usually quicker.

I'm like you here. I like to shift gears myself and that requires an honest to god clutch pedal. I also feel like it's not a real muscle car or sports car unless one is at least an option.

orconn
08-31-10, 01:56 AM
With the automatics of today with their "paddles" and "flickagear" technology there really isn't a need for a classic "manual stickshift" anymore. Except in the case of small engined "econobxes" without sufficient power to make aautomatic transmission perform in an efficient manner. So really, being proficient at driving a stick shift is really just a vestigial sign of car involved manhood! Kind of like knowing how to sword fight in an age of firearms, or knowing how to tie a tie in our age of no tie blandness! It may be expected for membership in some circles, and perhaps for one's own personal enjoyment, but certainly not a prerequisite for gettin from point A to point B!

77CDV
08-31-10, 02:56 AM
Looks like you got a sweet car for a fair price, Jesda. Way better than that beat to hell LS. Extra treats for Newton for saving you from a certain disaster.

Aron9000
08-31-10, 03:00 AM
That Volvo is freaking sweet Jesda. I've never been into the newer models(always liked the boxy ones), but I'll have to give them a second look. Especially for the type of coin you paid for that nice example. Also, is that car FWD or AWD??? I know AWD was optional on some Volvo models.

As for the stick thing, I absolutely love it in my Z28. Never owned a stick shift sports car before, but it just feels so righteous. Way more fun then the automatic Z28 I had, but that auto car was way easier to drive on the drag strip. Definetly the way to go if you "live your life a quarter mile at a time":rofl:

As for the feel of the clutch and shifter, well its definetly a man's car. Clutch is aftermarket and heavy as hell and its tricky to engage smoothly when you want a slow takeoff. Shifter is aftermarket and very precise, but you have to shift it with authority and use your whole arm. Launching and hooking up is tricky, because you can easily fry the tires off it with a 2,000rpm clutch dump. Nothing is more satisfying than the perfect launch and spinning the tires on the 1-2 and 2-3 shift though.

Playdrv4me
08-31-10, 03:12 AM
That Volvo is freaking sweet Jesda. I've never been into the newer models(always liked the boxy ones), but I'll have to give them a second look. Especially for the type of coin you paid for that nice example. Also, is that car FWD or AWD??? I know AWD was optional on some Volvo models.


This one is FWD. AWD was introduced in 2002.

For the record... SOMEONE was about to pout and go home until I dragged him kicking and screaming to go look at the S60. I'm really glad it worked out, it is so much more car than the purchase price would ever lead you to believe.

Night Wolf
08-31-10, 09:54 AM
Jesda - nice Volvo! It is in good condition and seems to have quite a bit of nice features. 30mpg + turbo + manual shift = win :). That shifter looks pretty cool. Think the car will stay around for a while?

I know you've said a manual conversion in the Saab would be hard to find....I'd personally start looking though - the car wants you to shift it :)


With the automatics of today with their "paddles" and "flickagear" technology there really isn't a need for a classic "manual stickshift" anymore. Except in the case of small engined "econobxes" without sufficient power to make aautomatic transmission perform in an efficient manner. So really, being proficient at driving a stick shift is really just a vestigial sign of car involved manhood! Kind of like knowing how to sword fight in an age of firearms, or knowing how to tie a tie in our age of no tie blandness! It may be expected for membership in some circles, and perhaps for one's own personal enjoyment, but certainly not a prerequisite for gettin from point A to point B!

I've driven various cars with manual select automatics. It just comes down to it being nothing more then a glorified way of being able to move the shifter from 1-2-3-D etc... I find it boring. It is like playing a game, you "select" your gear instead of actually "changing" gears.

I'm not saying automatics can't perform well, I'm saying they dramatically cut back on driver involvement when....driving. I like to have a real clutch pedal and manual shifter.

Stingroo
08-31-10, 10:02 AM
...or knowing how to tie a tie in our age of no tie blandness! It may be expected for membership in some circles, and perhaps for one's own personal enjoyment, but certainly not a prerequisite for gettin from point A to point B!

Oh my god. So true. I think I'm the only person I know in my age group who can actually tie a real windsor knot. I remember last year my roommate was in Navy ROTC and they had their annual Navy Ball, and he couldn't find anyone who knew how to tie his tie, so I did it. Then like, five or six of our mutual friends also came over. It was like, a tie tying session with me and youtube.

Really, really sad.

And yeah, the "manumatics" don't really give you the same satisfaction at all. Though personally, I prefer an auto in a daily driver, so I'm in the camp that thinks Jesda got this backward.

But then again, he IS Jesda. :thumbsup:

gdwriter
08-31-10, 03:23 PM
So really, being proficient at driving a stick shift is really just a vestigial sign of car involved manhood! Kind of like knowing how to sword fight in an age of firearms, or knowing how to tie a tie in our age of no tie blandness!I don't remember when was the last time I wore a tie. I hate that feeling of having your neck constricted, even I'm wearing a shirt with a generous collar. But I still know how to tie one.

When driving a stick, I'll sometimes play a game of seeing how smoothly I can shift. On some cars, I can get it so you don't feel the shift at all. Mike's Trans Am? Not so much. That's a car you have to muscle through the gears, but that's part of its charm. If there was ever a car that reeks of testosterone, it's a Trans Am.


For the record... SOMEONE was about to pout and go home until I dragged him kicking and screaming to go look at the S60. I'm really glad it worked out, it is so much more car than the purchase price would ever lead you to believe.:histeric::histeric::histeric:

That would have been fun to see. Although I too would have been pissed to drive XX hours to go buy a car only to find it's a POS and there's a dog-hating douchebag at the dealership.


I've driven various cars with manual select automatics. It just comes down to it being nothing more then a glorified way of being able to move the shifter from 1-2-3-D etc... I find it boring.The Saturn Aura I rented in Phoenix had the paddle shifters. I was not impressed. Very sluggish response when upshifting, and I got more responsive downshifts if I left it in Drive and goosed the accelerator.

GM generally builds excellent automatic transmissions. With the 700R4 in Betty, the driving experience is not much different than with the Powerglide. The 1-2 upshift comes at about the same time, and the 2-3 and especially 3-4 are hardly felt. It does tend to shift early, however; even if I'm stepping on it to get up to highway speed quickly, it still won't rev past 3,000 RPM. But the 327 has plenty of torque, so it'll still scoot.

Likewise the Seville is very smooth when you're just cruising. But if you start to hoon on it, it'll let you rev up to redline (something the Northstar loves to do), upshifts are crisp, and it's very responsive to your right foot at downshifting. When in Performance mode, the tranny in Chad's Regal GS is will downshift right now, but it's a little harsher than in the Seville.

Is there any turbo lag in the Volvo? It seems that's gotten to be less of an issue with fuel injection and electronic controls, but I wonder if it's any different in a stick vs. an automatic.

gary88
08-31-10, 04:15 PM
Jesda, nice pick up on the Volvo! :thumbsup:

I love the visceral connection you have with a stick, but many modern automatics are really becoming great as well. The ZF 6HP21 auto in my 335i is seriously impressive for a normal torque converter box. The converter locks up above 10mph, when you let off the gas it decelerates like you're on the brakes. In normal auto mode the shifts are virtually invisible, and when you slide into sport mode and get on the throttle the shifts are very quick with a good jolt that will move you a little in the seat, and perfect rev matching on every downshift. Plus the more aggressive gearing compared to the manual is nice.

Destroyer
08-31-10, 11:50 PM
Hoover is very low maintenance for a Lab. He has the run of the house while I'm at work, and he's never chewed or torn up a thing. And he's nice to the cat. I've gotten very spoiled having such a well-behaved dog. I travel a fair amount especially this year and if it's a road trip, Hoover comes with me. Finding dog-friendly lodging is easy, and I love having him along. When I can't take Hoover along, I have a trusted kennel. They like him, and while I'm told he misses me, he adjusts pretty quickly. I have a neighbor who will come over to feed Pepper and give her some attention, so that's never a problem.
I always "kind of liked" those Volvo's. Volvo's tend to fall under the radar of most (myself included). You have rekindled my short interest in these cars. I wish you luck with it in the few weeks you will own it (you know you will have something different soon, lol). :lildevil:

Jesda
09-03-10, 05:49 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eZMWgS0UORs

hueterm
09-03-10, 06:02 PM
Very nice, Jesda!

Playdrv4me
09-03-10, 06:41 PM
That Audiomax radio is pretty incredible. That alone was a $1200.00 option. :eek:

hueterm
09-03-10, 06:43 PM
Being an '01, is the nav any good? Is it CD or DVD based? I do like the popup -- because it keeps the mfg. from cheapening out and making the nav control everything...

ted tcb
09-03-10, 07:26 PM
"Socially, its a safe choice, you're not offending anyone ... JESUS CHRIST, FU**IN' PRIUS!!'

Funny review .... car sounds great, by the way, under full throttle.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-03-10, 08:03 PM
Nice video Jesda! I notice a surprising lack of Abba and/or Ace Of Base in your video though.

Jesda
09-03-10, 08:17 PM
Being an '01, is the nav any good? Is it CD or DVD based? I do like the popup -- because it keeps the mfg. from cheapening out and making the nav control everything...

Its accurate but it has an unusual tendency to route me through people's neighborhoods to get to the other side. There's a 6-disc nav changer in the back. The latest update is "2005.2", $199 for the set.

There's a guy on mp3car who replaced his pop-up nav with a pop-up 7" LCD touch screen with remote. He uses a CarPC running XP to do audio playback, GPS, video, and web.

I'm missing the CD that covers my part of the country and no one seems to be selling the individual disc.


Nice video Jesda! I notice a surprising lack of Abba and/or Ace Of Base in your video though.

Volvo isnt outgoing enough for lively pop. :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-03-10, 08:26 PM
Volvo isnt outgoing enough for lively pop. :)

It's the perfect car for a Bruce Hornsby break-out session.

Playdrv4me
09-03-10, 08:52 PM
It's the perfect car for a Bruce Hornsby break-out session.

Not to keep going on about the radio but... Bruce sounds f***ing AWESOME on it.

hueterm
09-03-10, 10:01 PM
Nice video Jesda! I notice a surprising lack of Abba and/or Ace Of Base in your video though.


Watch Ducky's video...there's plenty.

Although I would have preferred it to the country he was playing....

hueterm
09-03-10, 10:02 PM
Its accurate but it has an unusual tendency to route me through people's neighborhoods to get to the other side. There's a 6-disc nav changer in the back. The latest update is "2005.2", $199 for the set.

There's a guy on mp3car who replaced his pop-up nav with a pop-up 7" LCD touch screen with remote. He uses a CarPC running XP to do audio playback, GPS, video, and web.

I'm missing the CD that covers my part of the country and no one seems to be selling the individual disc.



Volvo isnt outgoing enough for lively pop. :)



As many whacked out ;-) trips as you take, I'd spring for the new discs...

77CDV
09-04-10, 02:33 AM
Its accurate but it has an unusual tendency to route me through people's neighborhoods to get to the other side. There's a 6-disc nav changer in the back. The latest update is "2005.2", $199 for the set.

There's a guy on mp3car who replaced his pop-up nav with a pop-up 7" LCD touch screen with remote. He uses a CarPC running XP to do audio playback, GPS, video, and web.

I'm missing the CD that covers my part of the country and no one seems to be selling the individual disc.



Volvo isnt outgoing enough for lively pop. :)

The Volvo is more of an Edvard Grieg car.