: Quick rental car review: 2010 Pontiac (read Toyota) Vibe



ga_etc
08-26-10, 08:48 PM
I get home from class today and my mom and I were talking about things we needed to do today. As we were discussing it, she told me there was something else that got added to the list. I needed to take her to Enterprise at 4 o'clock to pick up a rental car. My dad told her this morning, on the phone, that he wanted her to get one since we have a funeral to attend. It's going to require us to do a pretty good amount of traveling over the week end and Monday and he (genuine shock) didn't want to put any more wear on my Eldorado. Not to mention that it's hard for my mom and grandmother to get in and out of the backseat. So we came home with this:
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/0826101746a.jpg

I've been driving it since mom picked it up this afternoon, a total of roughly four hours. So far it's not bad, but it's nothing exciting either. I like the styling of it, the seats are comfortable based on what driving around town I have done, I like the gauge layout, and the standard radio sounds quite good with lots of bass to only be 4 speakers. However, the radio could be angled towards the driver more, rather than flat and high on the center of the dash. The dash itself consists of nothing but hard, cheap looking plastics. Nothing is particularly pleasing to the touch. It only has 26,000 miles on it right now, so surprisingly nothing is squeaking or rattling, but it will happen. You can just look at it and see it.

I haven't had enough seat time yet to explore the handling. The engine is a definite disappointment. The beast lurking under the hood is Toyota's 1.8l 4 cylinder backed by a 4 speed auto. Making 132hp it's not very athletic. With the traction control and A/C off I tried a 0-60 run. Holding the brakes and bringing the revs up to about 2100 RPM, I lifted off the brakes and stood on the throttle. Rough estimate by the stopwatch on my phone showed 11 seconds. Mind altering speed. On the up side, the transmission is responsive and downshifts promptly when you prod the gas pedal. Shifts are always smooth.

Overall it doesn't seem to be a bad little car. It's slow, but supposed to the very good on gas. I guess we'll see how it does through Monday.

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/0826101746.jpg
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/0826101747.jpg
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/0826101635.jpg

ben.gators
08-26-10, 10:04 PM
I do like that white coupe in third photo :D... It looks much better after cleaning... send more pics and updates about it.

Stingroo
08-26-10, 10:09 PM
That red Jeep is all wrong...

http://images.footballfanatics.com/productImages/_3000/DS_3367_l.jpg

All better.

ben.gators
08-26-10, 10:10 PM
That red Jeep is all wrong...

http://images.footballfanatics.com/productImages/_3000/DS_3367_l.jpg

All better.

Yeah, much better... :D Gators.... :D

ga_etc
08-26-10, 10:13 PM
Been working on the Camaro. I'm a little irritated with it right at the moment.

No Ray, the Jeep is correct as it sits.

Also, just drove the Vibe to fill it up with gas and to run to town to get something to eat. The passenger side window is just about dead. I had to stop and get out to help it back up. I blame Toyota.

Stingroo
08-26-10, 10:53 PM
No sir, all wrong.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-26-10, 11:25 PM
0-60 in 11 seconds? Sheesh... I bet your Astro is faster.

ga_etc
08-26-10, 11:32 PM
Not right now. It's not running. But when it is/was it is/was.

Playdrv4me
08-27-10, 12:11 AM
That is a perfect example of Toyota's recent turd-tacular production. I thought that car was OK the first few years it was out (and when they introduced the 110v AC outlet), but the newest one is just terrible.

ga_etc
08-27-10, 12:41 AM
It's okay, but very blah at the same time. It's just a car. Nothing really stands out about it. I like the exterior styling, but for a base price of $17-18,000 when new I think I could find something in that price range I liked better. I think most people did too, because you don't see many on the road.

ben.gators
08-27-10, 01:40 AM
It's okay, but very blah at the same time. It's just a car. Nothing really stands out about it. I like the exterior styling, but for a base price of $17-18,000 when new I think I could find something in that price range I liked better. I think most people did too, because you don't see many on the road.

17000-18000$ for this! that is insane. With this money one can buy a 2010 Sonata... This car should be priced around 12000$- 13000$.

Night Wolf
08-27-10, 03:31 AM
Tell your buddy that chrome dosen't belong on a Jeep ;)

As for the spare tire cover - to heck with football, loose the cover :)

ga_etc
08-27-10, 03:39 AM
Tell your buddy that chrome dosen't belong on a Jeep ;)

As for the spare tire cover - to heck with football, loose the cover :)

The chrome suits that one really well. It saved his ass one day too. He bumped a woman in the rear end and the chrome kept there from being any real damage, just bent the font tag. I care nothing about football either, but he's a huge GA fan so it's all over the Jeep.

hueterm
08-27-10, 08:07 AM
Going to a funeral is depressing enough, but having to travel long distances in that is beyond the pale....... With four of you in that thing, you'll be lucky to ever get to 60, much less in 11 seconds.......

Playdrv4me
08-27-10, 04:49 PM
you'll be lucky to ever get to 60, much less in 11 seconds.......

lol!

ga_etc
08-27-10, 05:04 PM
Going to a funeral is depressing enough, but having to travel long distances in that is beyond the pale....... With four of you in that thing, you'll be lucky to ever get to 60, much less in 11 seconds.......

I don't think it's quite that bad. It's far better than the Geo Metro my best friend and I gave hell in high school.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-27-10, 06:08 PM
You know.....if you took out the rear doors and painted it black....you'd have a mini hearse.

93DevilleUSMC
08-27-10, 06:59 PM
It makes me sick that the last of the Pontiacs....is a Toyota. We get a brand named after an Indian warrior who launched a freaking rebellion, the brand that gave us Trans Ams with 455s, and GTOs, and how does the whole saga end? With. A damn. Toyota.

Shame.

ben.gators
08-27-10, 07:47 PM
It makes me sick that the last of the Pontiacs....is a Toyota. We get a brand named after an Indian warrior who launched a freaking rebellion, the brand that gave us Trans Ams with 455s, and GTOs, and how does the whole saga end? With. A damn. Toyota.

Shame.

http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2010/08/pontiacs-ensnared-in-toyota’s-15th-recall-of-year/#more-29209
Yes, look what Pontiac got after his collaboration with Toyota! Massive recalls, and by the way, discontinuation of whole brand!

93DevilleUSMC
08-27-10, 08:56 PM
http://www.thedetroitbureau.com/2010/08/pontiacs-ensnared-in-toyota’s-15th-recall-of-year/#more-29209
Yes, look what Pontiac got after his collaboration with Toyota! Massive recalls, and by the way, discontinuation of whole brand!

What was wrong with them being a Pontiac and sticking to their brand heritage and performance orientation? What once was GM's bold, mean muscle-car division became the maker of Chevrolets, only uglier. I exclude the G8 from that description.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-27-10, 09:08 PM
I'd actually argue that Chevrolet was just as sporty as Pontiac, if not more so. Yeah, Pontiac had the Firebird & Trans Am, but Chevrolet had the Camaro. Pontiac had the GTO, but Chevrolet had the Chevelle SS. Granted, Pontiac started the muscle car trend with the GTO in the fall of '63, but Pontiac never had anything in comparison to the Nova SS, or the Corvair, and lastly and most importantly......the Corvette.

Keeping this in mind, it's really no wonder why Pontiac was axed. They simply didn't have any cars that a different division of GM didn't offer at the same time. Even when they came out with the Solstice, it was given to Saturn as the Sky (and that was arguably better looking). The only time I can think of when Pontiac had their own car without any spinoffs was the Fiero, and....yeah.

ben.gators
08-27-10, 09:09 PM
What was wrong with them being a Pontiac and sticking to their brand heritage and performance orientation? What once was GM's bold, mean muscle-car division became the maker of Chevrolets, only uglier. I exclude the G8 from that description.

Well Said and Totally True!
For the same reason it really pissed me off when Buick rebadged Opel Insignia as Buick Regal 2011!

ga_etc
08-27-10, 10:31 PM
It makes me sick that the last of the Pontiacs....is a Toyota. We get a brand named after an Indian warrior who launched a freaking rebellion, the brand that gave us Trans Ams with 455s, and GTOs, and how does the whole saga end? With. A damn. Toyota.

Shame.

Well the Vibe was just a re-badged Toyota Matrix from the start. It was a collaboration vehicle. That is the only the reason that the Vibe was still around for '10.

ga_etc
08-27-10, 10:33 PM
Well Said and Totally True!
For the same reason it really pissed me off when Buick rebadged Opel Insignia as Buick Regal 2011!

If I remember correctly the Insignia has been a highly praised car.

ben.gators
08-28-10, 03:58 AM
If I remember correctly the Insignia has been a highly praised car.

It is not about the build quality or how well Insignia is. That is about if a car manufacture just wants to rebadge other cars as his own, no matter those cars are high quality or low quality, there is no reason for existence of such a duplicator company any more....

Night Wolf
08-28-10, 05:08 AM
yes, but unlike 4 versions of the same vehicle by Pontiac/Oldsmobile/Buick/Chevy.... we have never had those cars from over seas before.... so vehicles like the G8, GTO or Regal arent exactly a duplicate. As far as USA was concerned, those vehicles simply didnt exist before and now they do.

ga_etc
08-28-10, 05:16 AM
Exactly. Sometimes badge engineering is a good thing. How do you think we got the last generation GTO and G8? Both really good cars. And the new Camaro is built on the same platform as the G8 was.

orconn
08-28-10, 04:18 PM
I see nothing wrong with a rebadged and U.S. specific version of the Opel Insignia being the new 2011 Regal. The Catera was an highly upgraded version of an Opel, and contrary to the derision that the car currently suffers from those who have little or no knowledge of the actual car, was a decent European executive sedan and filled a valid nitch in the American market. Let's hope GM doesn't abandon its' new Regal the way it did the Catera, and now apparently the Pontiac G8. A solid chassis, regardless where it was designed, fitted out to meet American needs and tastes can be a very valid model for the American market, but unlike previous attempts at adaptation, GM needs to make a solid commitment to the support (read service and parts support) of the cars marketed here, if the the U.S. domestic management can't either to be bothered or is incapable of developing the expertise for successful support, then they should be confined to marketing cars developed and built here in the U.S. Only time will tell if the new Regal will make the grade!

93DevilleUSMC
08-28-10, 10:32 PM
The Insignia being rebadged for Buick as a Regal is an example of how to do rebadging correctly. Both cars have their own body styles and cosmetic cues, and the Buick is aesthetically pleasing in every way. Pontiac, on the other hand, did ugly rebadge designs, or did rebadges that were so minimal as to be nothing more than a hood ornament. See the last GTO and G8, both of which were Holdens with minimal changes to make them Pontiacs. The one Pontiac I can think of that was rebadged correctly was the Firebird, which was a Camaro under the sheetmetal. At least with the Firebird, you had a car that had hints of the Camaro in it, but was distinct enough to be recognized as a Pontiac.

93DevilleUSMC
08-28-10, 10:36 PM
I'd actually argue that Chevrolet was just as sporty as Pontiac, if not more so. Yeah, Pontiac had the Firebird & Trans Am, but Chevrolet had the Camaro. Pontiac had the GTO, but Chevrolet had the Chevelle SS. Granted, Pontiac started the muscle car trend with the GTO in the fall of '63, but Pontiac never had anything in comparison to the Nova SS, or the Corvair, and lastly and most importantly......the Corvette.

Keeping this in mind, it's really no wonder why Pontiac was axed. They simply didn't have any cars that a different division of GM didn't offer at the same time. Even when they came out with the Solstice, it was given to Saturn as the Sky (and that was arguably better looking). The only time I can think of when Pontiac had their own car without any spinoffs was the Fiero, and....yeah.

Well put. In Pontiac's last years, you could get a Cobalt SS. Pontiac's G5 had no performance trim level equivalent to the Cobalt SS.

Night Wolf
08-28-10, 11:32 PM
The Insignia being rebadged for Buick as a Regal is an example of how to do rebadging correctly. Both cars have their own body styles and cosmetic cues, and the Buick is aesthetically pleasing in every way. Pontiac, on the other hand, did ugly rebadge designs, or did rebadges that were so minimal as to be nothing more than a hood ornament. See the last GTO and G8, both of which were Holdens with minimal changes to make them Pontiacs. The one Pontiac I can think of that was rebadged correctly was the Firebird, which was a Camaro under the sheetmetal. At least with the Firebird, you had a car that had hints of the Camaro in it, but was distinct enough to be recognized as a Pontiac.

Did it really matter if the rebaged Pontiacs looked similar to Holdens?

We cant just walk into a Holden dealer here in the US, so whats the big deal of a car looks siliar to another car on the same chassis on the otherside of the world?

ben.gators
08-29-10, 12:31 AM
The Insignia being rebadged for Buick as a Regal is an example of how to do rebadging correctly. Both cars have their own body styles and cosmetic cues, and the Buick is aesthetically pleasing in every way. .

Dude, I guess either I am unable to understand your post, or you have no idea what are you speaking about!
Rebadging, at least the one applied on Opel which produced Regal, is nothing more than removing Opel emblem (plus grill) and putting a Buick emblem and grill on it, that is it! Those cars do NOT have their own body styles and cosmetic cues. Interiors are EXACTLY the same, and exterior are the same as well, except a grill and a few small chrome trim.

This is Opel Insignia:
http://fancytuning.com/wp-content/uploads/2009/04/vauxhall-opel-insignia-opc-vxr-3.jpg
and this is regal 2011:
http://lfablog.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/2011regal.jpg
I am not sure the photo of Opel is modified by photoshop to come up with Regal 2011 to show how similar theses cars are, or it is really a new photo! Anyway, this is another photo from Regal 2011 just for case to insure you that Regal is nothing more than Opel with new Emblem and grill!

http://www.velocityshow.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/07/2011-Buick-Regal-Front.jpg
Huh! even the rims are the same! And just for fun, the both cars are assembled in a same place, some where in Germany. The sticker on Regal says Made in Germany.


Inside Opel:
http://www.rpmgo.com/cars/d/18758-2/opel_insignia_leaked05.jpg

Inside Regal:
http://images.passionperformance.ca/photos/0/3/4/034163_Buick_Regal_2011_a_decouvrir_au_salon_de_Lo s_Angeles.jpg]

Exactly the same, except Regal has Nav option in this pic, but that specific Opel does not have the nav option. Nav is available for Opel as well... and Opel has the wood trim option, but the Regal does not have that trim... Wood trim should be available for Regal too... The differences is just about customer option package. If they had the same package, they would be EXACTLY the same, except that Buick emblem on steering wheel...:eek:

My statement is very simple... I have no idea why people are not getting it... I am not saying that Opel Insignia is a bad car! I have no objection in selling this car in US as a lot of people think it is a good car! My point is Buick is not a dealership that its job is to distribute the cars that others have manufactured! Buick is a car manufacture that needs to manufacture car! Yes, it can use the common platforms that other partners in GM have developed before. Or redesign some other successful cars and optimize it and sell it! But for God's sake take a look to pics..... If you think the work Buick is doing is correct, I would suggest let's close all production lines of Buick in USA and Canada and open some dealerships instead of them, then reclothe the workers in Buick as Salesmen (They will need a lot of training to learn all tricks of dealerships... :) ) and then Buick goes around and buy cars from other successful car manufactures that really produce cars! and then puts Buick Emblems on them and sell them! How is that?! Huh?

Night Wolf
08-29-10, 01:19 AM
Huh! even the rims are the same! And just for fun, the both cars are assembled in a same place, some where in Germany. The sticker on Regal says Made in Germany.

I knew there was something about that car I liked :)

Really tho, what is the big deal that it is an Opel? It's not like we have them here. If someone was not exposed to cars outside the US at all, which would be most all of us except for internet/media, then we wouldn't even know it exists.

You seem to be totally against rebadging a known good car that isn't avalible to us in place of creating yet another new car from the ground up.

Ford took your advice in the past and gave us "new" versions of the Escort and Focus among others. They suck in comparison to what was avalible overseas.

I guess it's a good thing we don't have the Chinese Buick Park Avenue either and instead get new but outdated and underwhelming models...

http://www.caradvice.com.au/wp-content/uploads/2007/07/buick_park_avenue_03.jpg

http://bp2.blogger.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/RhvqlHMpAuI/AAAAAAAAHy8/myYjxi3nEeE/s1600/Carscoop_Buick_ParkAvenue_1.JPG

http://bp2.blogger.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/RhvtkHMpBMI/AAAAAAAAH2s/BgtOhpgRJeU/s1600/Carscoop_Buick_ParkAvenue_a4.jpg

http://2.bp.blogspot.com/_FoXyvaPSnVk/RhvsO3MpA_I/AAAAAAAAH1E/LsrdFzX9V-Y/s1600/Carscoop_Buick_ParkAvenue_18.JPG

http://images.businessweek.com/ss/08/03/0317_chinalux/image/6_buick_parkave_interior.jpg

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/images/gm-park-avenue-exports-2.jpg

http://www.webwombat.com.au/motoring/images/gm-park-avenue-exports-3.jpg

93DevilleUSMC
08-29-10, 01:39 AM
Did it really matter if the rebaged Pontiacs looked similar to Holdens?

We cant just walk into a Holden dealer here in the US, so whats the big deal of a car looks siliar to another car on the same chassis on the otherside of the world?

Nothing wrong with similarity, but the GTO should have gotten much more original styling than it received. The GTO was an icon in the past, and should have been more carefully styled to reflect that.

Aron9000
08-29-10, 01:52 AM
Nothing wrong with similarity, but the GTO should have gotten much more original styling than it received. The GTO was an icon in the past, and should have been more carefully styled to reflect that.

They should've just left the GTO nameplate in the past, as the new age GTO almost nothing in common with the old one other than being RWD, V8, and two doors. I think they should've left the Holden name on it, called it the Monaro and been done with it.


As for that chinese Buick Park Ave, that is just tits. That's the type of car Buick should be building and selling for about 50k. Hell that straight up embarrasses any sedan Cadillac has put out in the last 20 years.

ben.gators
08-29-10, 02:26 AM
I knew there was something about that car I liked :)

Really tho, what is the big deal that it is an Opel? It's not like we have them here. If someone was not exposed to cars outside the US at all, which would be most all of us except for internet/media, then we wouldn't even know it exists.

You seem to be totally against rebadging a known good car that isn't avalible to us in place of creating yet another new car from the ground up.

Ford took your advice in the past and gave us "new" versions of the Escort and Focus among others. They suck in comparison to what was avalible overseas.

I guess it's a good thing we don't have the Chinese Buick Park Avenue either and instead get new but outdated and underwhelming models...



Did you read my entire post, specially this part: "My statement is very simple... I have no idea why people are not getting it... I am not saying that Opel Insignia is a bad car! I have no objection in selling this car in US as a lot of people think it is a good car! My point is Buick is not a dealership that its job is to distribute the cars that others have manufactured! Buick is a car manufacture that needs to manufacture car! Yes, it can use the common platforms that other partners in GM have developed before. Or redesign some other successful cars and optimize it and sell it! But for God's sake take a look to pics..... If you think the work Buick is doing is correct, I would suggest let's close all production lines of Buick in USA and Canada and open some dealerships instead of them, then reclothe the workers in Buick as Salesmen (They will need a lot of training to learn all tricks of dealerships... ) and then Buick goes around and buy cars from other successful car manufactures that really produce cars! and then puts Buick Emblems on them and sell them! How is that?! Huh?"

I have no problem with Opel, indeed it is very good to have this car in USA since people like it. But I can not understand why GM is pronouncing it "Buick Regal"? If you say that Opel does not have dealership chain and after market service centers in USA and another GM brand should take care of sale and aftermarket services of theses cars and that is why Opel is called Buick Regal I should say that: Right now Buick has been manufacturing a car in the same class and in the same segment of market and in the same price range! Buick Lacrosse 2010! Just for records, there will be internal conflicts and competition between Buick Regal and Buick Lacrosse 2010... This fact has been discussed in another thread too....

Stingroo
08-29-10, 08:59 AM
I think Ben is just a little bit butthurt that it got called the Regal. If it had any other name, we probably wouldn't be having this discussion.

Point: It's a good car, sell it here.
Point 2: The Chinese Park Avenue is AWESOME. That thing > XTS.

hueterm
08-29-10, 09:00 AM
They're calling it a Regal because:

1.) unfortunately, 99.999% of the buying public barely remembers the old school Regals that you're attaching emotion to. Even if they do remember it, they don't care, or see the overwhelming majority of them as junkers driving around today in the hood.

2.) said buying public has been brainwashed that smaller and greener is better, and is used to little jelly bean cars -- such as Honda and Toyota -- and it does look better than those...however -- a G-body, it is not....

3.) GM is broke and controlled by a socialist and an environmental wacko -- so they're going to have to do this as cheaply as possible and with the smallest engines possible.

4.) Buick causes heart palpitations of glee in China -- where they will sell a buttload of these.

I'm sure there are other miserable reasons, but it's just now 8AM. I don't mind this Insignia/Regal, whatever, but I agree with you that it is SAD that GM can't design and build cars for the US market here in the US and not have to bring in models from overseas. Harley Earl and Bill Mitchell must be turning over in their graves.....

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-29-10, 09:03 AM
I don't like how all the Opel/Holden sourced RWD full size sedans share the same basic body lines, but other than that, they're a great, great sedan and we should be so lucky to get them considering how long we've been getting full size, FWD sedans instead.

It may not be monumentally huge and it may not be body on frame, but I'm glad to see that "full size" RWD sedans are back in business at GM. We can thank Chrysler and their 300/Charger/Magnum for that.


BTW, that Chinese Park Avenue is T.I.T.S. and I'm quite frustrated that we don't get that over here. That's probably the coolest (IMO) full size Buick since the 1984 Electra Park Avenue.

hueterm
08-29-10, 09:10 AM
Maybe I'm missing something, but that doesn't look full size to me -- I'm thinking G6 replacement -- am I wrong? IMO, the LaCrosse is barely full size....

Stingroo
08-29-10, 09:20 AM
No, it's huge. It rides on a LWB version of the Zeta platform and is almost as long as our wagons, coming in at 203.7 inches. But it only comes with the 3.6 V6, which isn't bad I guess, since it's 255hp, but it could use a nice LS motor :devil:

hueterm
08-29-10, 09:33 AM
No, I meant the Regal, not the Park Avenue -- I know that is huge. I see now that Chad was talking about the PA -- not the Regal... Regal = full size did not compute...

Stingroo
08-29-10, 09:35 AM
Oh. Yeah. I got it now. lol

Well even that's decently sized at 190 inches. I might have to go to a dealership and check one out, just for kicks. They look pretty good in person, IMO. I wonder if they're comfortable.

Heck, Jesda might even like it, comes with a six speed manual according to wikipedia.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-29-10, 09:39 AM
Oh there's nothing "full sized" about the Regal, never was. The new one is about the size of a TSX or S40. They're a lot nicer inside & out than mine, but not as large.

Stingroo
08-29-10, 09:41 AM
Really? They're smaller inside than your generation? So then, say, as a basis for comparison, they're smaller inside than Matt's new-to-him 88?

In that case, bleh. Pass.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-29-10, 09:47 AM
Yeah, they're not a big car. The new LaCrosse is similar in size to my car on the exterior, but it's a bit larger inside. The new Regal's roofline is definitely a lot lower than mine, but the legroom is about the same, but it doesn't have as much shoulder room as the older Regals. It's six inches shorter overall and rides a two inch shorter wheelbase.

93DevilleUSMC
08-29-10, 01:47 PM
The Buick Regal is a properly done rebadge because it fits into it's brand well, and isn't ugly or bland. Pontiac's last few rebadges, with one or two exceptions, were either ugly, or bland, and not true Pontiacs. Simple.

ga_etc
08-30-10, 12:22 AM
As a side note, my aunt is in town from AZ for the funeral as well. She's staying with us and has a rental of her own. A 2009 Toyota Yaris sedan.

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/0829101858.jpg
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/0829101859.jpg
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/0829101625.jpg

My dad has done nothing but b!tch about the Vibe. He says he doesn't like anything about it. Well I drove the Yaris back from Chattanooga today so I could catch up with Jesda and Ian while they were in the area. All I can say is that if dad doesn't like the Vibe, he should drive the Yaris. It's tolerable on the outside, but the inside is horrible. I will leave it at that.

Jesda
08-30-10, 05:54 AM
Stupid Yaris. How the hell can a car almost as tall as me have crap for headroom? Its a rolling abortion.

hueterm
08-30-10, 09:45 AM
LOL at the 130 MPH speedo.... Mmm Hmmm...

drewsdeville
08-30-10, 11:12 AM
3k revs while still under 80mph? Really? Did you just happen to downshift at the time of the picture or was that at a cruise? The drone must have been horrible...

That's no better than my '66 Dodge with a 3 speed and 3.91's

Night Wolf
08-30-10, 01:23 PM
Not a whole lot differet then the Corolla I rented when I drove to Nashville to buy the BMW.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW/purchase/10-10-08018.jpg

Then it said no more

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW/purchase/10-10-08038.jpg

Then the BMW - when I bought it, more things were broken then working. 3.73 gears.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW/purchase/10-13-08018.jpg

This was the 318iC, cluster was swapped from the 325iC (to bring back mileage to correct on red car - odo was already broken on white car). 4.27 gears made for high RPM on the highway.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/BMW92/12-9-09/IMG_0052.jpg

Neither of the two BMW's had a drone though - then again they are convertibles and I usually had the top down.

ga_etc
08-30-10, 05:46 PM
3k revs while still under 80mph? Really? Did you just happen to downshift at the time of the picture or was that at a cruise? The drone must have been horrible...

That's no better than my '66 Dodge with a 3 speed and 3.91's

That wasn't in a downshift situation, that was a steady cruise. 85mph caused the tach to sit dead on 3500rpm.

Mike, it might do 130, but I don't want to find out. It is so light and tall that at interstate speeds a LIGHT BREEZE was pushing it around in the lane. With a decent gust of wind in a storm and an inexperienced driver would be in the ditch before they knew what happened. I love cars, but that things SUCKS. I would rather have a Neon.

93DevilleUSMC
08-30-10, 06:56 PM
I would rather have a Neon.

^^ The ultimate insult to any vehicle.

Stingroo
08-30-10, 06:59 PM
I would rather have a Prius.

Josiah, I think this would be worse.

93DevilleUSMC
08-30-10, 07:08 PM
Josiah, I think this would be worse.

Okay, a Yugo would be worse. Or a Tata Nano.

Jesda
08-30-10, 07:26 PM
Nicer cars can cruise at highway speeds at 3k without issues, but the entry-level economy cars have a combination of wind, motor, and all kinds of racket from the hard fuel saver tires.

The old Saab only has three gears, so it sits at 3200 on the highway, but the motor gets really quiet and the turbo does most of the work. I'm sure the little trolls in Sweden tuned the exhaust for quiet cruising.

Meanwhile, my 3-speed Sentra was god-awful at 55mph.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-30-10, 07:32 PM
If I remember right, my Mercedes S320 was at about 3000 RPM at 80, but then again you've got a tiny 3.2L I-6 pushing 4500 lbs of car, so it's gonna have really short gearing (for it's 5 speed) to keep up. I do remember it having a slight drone, but it was barely audible. I don't even wanna know what sort of RPM's they pulled before they went to the 5-speed auto in '94...

And you wonder why it only got 23-24 mpg most of the time.

Now the GS on the other hand, with it's big & amply powered V6 will pull 2300 rpm at 80, which isn't too bad at all..

ga_etc
08-30-10, 07:47 PM
Okay, a Yugo would be worse. Or a Tata Nano.

I wouldn't go that far. Unless it was just for beating the hell out of with a sledge hammer. Or :gun2:

And Ray, a Prius would have to be better. It's a higher priced car with a lot more technology. So I would rather have a Prius...

Aron9000
08-31-10, 02:21 AM
The Camaro is around 1900-2000rpms at 80mph. If you slow down to 60 or so its almost idling along. Best MPG I got was 26, that was driving through mountainous west virginia at 80mph. Might have 30mpg in it if I set the cruise at 60 on flat land, but its kind of hard to drive that slow with all the power corrupting you to speed.

Night Wolf
08-31-10, 09:03 AM
If I remember right, my Mercedes S320 was at about 3000 RPM at 80, but then again you've got a tiny 3.2L I-6 pushing 4500 lbs of car, so it's gonna have really short gearing (for it's 5 speed) to keep up. I do remember it having a slight drone, but it was barely audible. I don't even wanna know what sort of RPM's they pulled before they went to the 5-speed auto in '94...

And you wonder why it only got 23-24 mpg most of the time.

Now the GS on the other hand, with it's big & amply powered V6 will pull 2300 rpm at 80, which isn't too bad at all..

I take it 5th on the 5spd and 4th on the 4spd were both overdrive. If the overdrive ratio was the same, or similar on each transmission, and gearing in the axle was the same - then it dosen't matter how many gears it has, highway cruise RPM will be the same.

Sort of like the Jeep. '04 was a 5spd with a .78:1 overdrive. '05 switched to the 6spd which has a .84:1 OD. Given the same gear ratio/tire size combination, a 6spd will run a couple hundred RPM more in OD then the 5spd (good for the Jeep).

The-Dullahan
09-04-10, 12:20 PM
Tell your buddy that chrome dosen't belong on a Jeep ;)

As for the spare tire cover - to heck with football, loose the cover :)

Agreed on both counts.

Football and Jeep can never mix, neither can Jeep and Chrome.

gdwriter
09-05-10, 01:03 AM
Before the swap from the Powerglide to the 700R4, Betty would run 3,400 RPM at 70 MPH. So no wonder gas mileage sucked — 11-12 MPG most of the time, 13 MPG if I was lucky. I got 14.9 MPG on a recent trip to Portland, and that included sitting in a 20+ minute traffic jam. And I was running the A/C. With the 700R4, she runs at 2,500 RPM at 70. And she's so much quieter. You don't even hear the engine now.

Sabrina runs just under 1,900 RPM at 70 and 2,100 at 77 MPH. That must be why highway gas mileage is so good. The engine isn't working hard at all.

ga_etc
09-05-10, 01:47 PM
The Roadmaster has the 700R4 too. Around town at 40mph it's barely above idle. 55 is 1,200 rpm and 75 is 1,600 rpm. That's with a 2.56 rear end.

gdwriter
09-05-10, 05:14 PM
The Roadmaster has the 700R4 too. Around town at 40mph it's barely above idle. 55 is 1,200 rpm and 75 is 1,600 rpm. That's with a 2.56 rear end.Betty has a 3:08. At 40 MPH, I think I'm doing ~1,200 RPM.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-05-10, 06:26 PM
The Roadmaster has the 700R4 too. Around town at 40mph it's barely above idle. 55 is 1,200 rpm and 75 is 1,600 rpm. That's with a 2.56 rear end.

Holy smokes that's low! At 75, my Buick is running about 2200 rpm.

And people wonder how these Roadmasters, with their very simple and imprecise throttle body injection setup wonder how they can pull 25-26 mpg highway.

Night Wolf
09-06-10, 01:21 PM
Before the swap from the Powerglide to the 700R4, Betty would run 3,400 RPM at 70 MPH. So no wonder gas mileage sucked — 11-12 MPG most of the time, 13 MPG if I was lucky. I got 14.9 MPG on a recent trip to Portland, and that included sitting in a 20+ minute traffic jam. And I was running the A/C. With the 700R4, she runs at 2,500 RPM at 70. And she's so much quieter. You don't even hear the engine now.

Sabrina runs just under 1,900 RPM at 70 and 2,100 at 77 MPH. That must be why highway gas mileage is so good. The engine isn't working hard at all.

Engine RPM is not a direct relation to engine load, nor an indication of fuel mileage alone.

Night Wolf
09-06-10, 01:24 PM
Holy smokes that's low! At 75, my Buick is running about 2200 rpm.

And people wonder how these Roadmasters, with their very simple and imprecise throttle body injection setup wonder how they can pull 25-26 mpg highway.

Out of all the commmonly used fuel injection systems on passenger vehicles, TBI allows the most amount of atomization of the fuel since the fuel is introduced so early on in the intake. In a performance car TBI is not a good setup, for a daily driver or luxobarge - it really dosen't make a difference, not in the performance of the vehicle or what the driver will be able to tell and it is a lot better then a carburator.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-06-10, 04:46 PM
If throttle body injection allows for the most fuel atomization, then why aren't all the manufacturers going back to TBI instead of DIRECT injection?

Night Wolf
09-07-10, 01:38 AM
If throttle body injection allows for the most fuel atomization, then why aren't all the manufacturers going back to TBI instead of DIRECT injection?

Because other then the increase in fuel atomization (which is shared with carburators), TBI is a rather poor system only marginally better then a carburator.

Carburators in their own right are not bad and many are often confused as to why they were phased out on passenger vehicles. The main reason was stricter emmissions requirements. For a carb'd engine to run properly when cold, it needs a very rich mixture - and that was calculated into the EPA tests. TBI, which is basically a glorified carburator was able to eliminate the extra-rich cold start conditions, and as a side benefit make cold starts overall easier.

TBI wasn't widely used either - that was GM's little redheaded step child. IIRC Ford played around with it on some trucks in the 80s then realized like the others that it was a waste of time.

One of the main benefits of fuel injection is overall better control of the amount of fuel delivered to each cylinder, and to try to keep them as similar as possble. Once fuel injection systems had 1 injector per cylinder, the amount of fuel could be metered to a much greater accuracy. Depending on the system it either opened all injectors at the same time, or they were split into two banks - which was similar to the operation of a wasted spark ignition system and only half the injectors opened at a time.

Direct injection is just a means of further enhancing the accuracy of the exact amount of fuel metered into the cylinder, and similar to a coil on plug ignition, each injector can be operated independently. The benefits are much greater on a two-stroke engine then a four.

Many changes to the various systems of modern engines especially on non-perfrmance vehicles are for emmission requirements, and not so much performance/driveability.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-07-10, 07:24 AM
Makes sense to me.

Jesda
09-07-10, 09:13 AM
TBI works well. No complaints from me.

Speaking of TBI, the white rally van died. I think using it to haul 3800lbs in the cargo space took its toll on the transmission. Since no one in the family needs it anymore, I suspect it will eventually be discarded for a hundred dollars or less. RIP, VANDURA!

Stingroo
09-07-10, 09:19 AM
No complaints here either. You can see pretty much EVERYTHING under the wagon's hood and fix it yourself just about.

Speaking of, BRB I have an alternator to purchase. :(

Night Wolf
09-07-10, 09:59 AM
No complaints here either. You can see pretty much EVERYTHING under the wagon's hood and fix it yourself just about.

Speaking of, BRB I have an alternator to purchase. :(

What does that have to do with TBI?

TBI isn't "bad" it was just a quirky stepping stone, though not as bad as the computer controlled carburator.

From the comments about people saying it works well and there are no problems with it - that is exactly what is to be expected. Because as much as people want to believe that they personally can detect various details in non performance engines in non performance cars - such as fuel injection system, air intake, cams/valves etc.... truth is - most can't and it just simply "works" and that is what matters at the end of the day.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
09-07-10, 06:15 PM
I love TBI! The simpler the better! Technicians LOVE them because they never cause any issues (unlike those damn Vortecs) and they're SOOO easy to work on when they do have a hiccup. However I will say, the power numbers they put out are really pathetic. I mean 185hp out of a 350 cid V8? 230hp out of a 454?? After the switch to Vortec in '96, the 350 was up to 255hp and the 454 was up to 290, now obviously they changed other things too, but the fuel injection change made a big part of it. But, with the way the TBI works, there's a LOT of low end torque and it never feels like only 185hp because it's abundant low end torque for use in town, but once out on the highway, it falls on it's face.