: Two more problems, the 1978 Soap Opera continues!



gornati
08-13-10, 07:51 PM
Well, finally fixed my brakes, took the car to a shop they released the emergency brakes and installed my new brake booster, first time driving the caddy.

Now two new problems arise.

First, the passenger side header is leaking a lot, so noise is horrendous... terrible...
I know how to fix it, i already have the new gasket, but the screws, are a little rusty making them almost impossible to be removed without breaking them..
Any tips on this?

The second problem i have idea what it could be when i brake there is this very loud noise like something is rubbing metal with metal, have no idea what could be.
Could it be a bearing? A screw touching the disc? missing lube... this is going to be hard to find.
any help is appreciated.

sven914
08-13-10, 08:12 PM
The grinding noise is probably severely worn brake pads and shoes. Have a reputable garage inspect them for lack of friction material.

Liberally spray the rusty bolts with a penetrating lubricant such as PB Blaster or WD40, and let it set in for a few hours. Do not operate the car with the lubricant on the bolts as it may case an engine fire. If the bolts are still ceased, and will not come out, then take the car someplace or to someone that can use an acetylene torch to break them free.

jayoldschool
08-13-10, 08:36 PM
I would bet that you don't have a bad gasket, you have broken manifold bolts.

gornati
08-13-10, 08:37 PM
sven, we removed all 4 wheels , i do have discs on 4 wheels, and there is plenty of brake pads...
The discs looks brand new...
and it only happens either when i brake or with some wave on the asphalt.
The front of the car is WAYYYY too low... i think that could be caused by the A arms grinding on something.

gornati
08-13-10, 08:40 PM
I would bet that you don't have a bad gasket, you have broken manifold bolts.
you say manifold or headers?

csbuckn
08-13-10, 09:34 PM
Stock equipment is exhaust manifolds, performance products are headers(long tube, short tube, midlength headers). Most exhaust manifolds crack because of the constant exhaust heat. The bolts break in the head also. Do the penetrating oil and try to rock the bolts out. Have a backup plan if they break. The noise while braking is probably still related to brake parts because thats the only thing that changes when you hit the brakes, well suspension too. But for the bolts, you can spray them with penetrating oil or get them very hot and try to get them out. If they break, know where to get them fixed.

sven914
08-14-10, 02:18 AM
Were the pads glazed?

When you say you hear the nose when there is a "wave on the asphalt" (what does that mean) are you hitting the brakes at that time?

I've never hear of the A arms grinding on anything except the pavement, and that would be a constant noise. Check the calipers for proper operation. If everything in the brake system is working normally, then the brake linings may be too hard (harder brake linings are used primarily in service vehicles because they take longer to wear out and stop better, but they are usually not used on passenger cars because they make an obnoxious grinding or squealing noise when applied).

gornati
08-14-10, 10:27 AM
could it be the bearings?

csbuckn
08-14-10, 10:52 AM
It could be. Pretty easy to check. Just raise the car and take the bearing cap off to see if you can tighten the nut. I had to do mine on the side of the highway once.

outsider
08-14-10, 10:58 AM
the manifold bolts on my 69 were a nightmare. Had to pull the engine out...broke most of the bolts and had to drill and tap them as they had essentially welded themselves to the heads :(

deVille33
08-14-10, 12:10 PM
Gornati,
Roll down the windows and try to determine what side or section of the car the brake noise is coming from. If you alone can't determine the direction of the noise, have your wife ride with you. Women have more distinct hearing than men. Make it a family project. This way you can determine which set of pads are the noisey culprit.
The noise may be coming from pad vibration or built up brake dust. There is a product, made by several different manufactures, which absorbs / insulates the pads against pad vibration. Once you determine which set of pads are making the noise, disassemble the caliper and check the back of the pads. there should be this rubbery substance on the back ( flat metal side of the pad ). Some brake pad manufacturers provided a composite gasket to cover this area. Either application was designed to cut down on the annoying noise of pad vibration. You can associate the source of the vibration to hard chalk or a fingernail dragged down a slate chalkboard.
Now that you have opened up the area from which the noise is eminating, clean the calipers and surrounding area of built up brake dust.

The 425, and I believe the relative engines, were prone to the frozen exhaust manifold studs. A lot of heat is generated in this area. Heating the head of the bolt may help, but there is no gaurantee. The use of heat is to remove any built up corrosion which may have accumulated under the bolt head. It is difficut to get heat to the threads of the bolt.
I have had some luck spraying the bolts with the affore mentioned PB Blaster. Spray it not only on the bolt heads, but also at the seam of the mating sufaces of the manifold and the heads, in the area of the bolt holes. I let the first generous application set for a day. The thought here is that it may take that long for the Blaster to penetrate through the built up rust. The next day, hit it again and after a short period ( 1 hour ) try the bolts. You may find that the proper wrench/socket size won't fit the bolt head. Thirty years of hot and cold will corrrode the bolt head so that it maybe undersize.
Sometimes, If the bolt snaps, there is enough relief of tension on the bolt that you can then turn the remains of the bolt out. This being the case, I have chosen to try the bolts that have plenty of clearance first. If they don't come free and break, I then try the other bolts. Judging how much pull I used on the bolt that broke, I try not to exceed that amount of pull. I remove as many bolts as I can. If I determine that I can't break the bolt free, I'll cut the head off. Removing the manifold will still be difficult because the length of the bolt may not allow the removal of the manifold, but it will allow lateral motion of the manifold. Use a rotary file or a stone in a right angle die grinder to cut the bolt body shorter. After you remove the manifold you still have something to grab onto.

jayoldschool
08-14-10, 08:56 PM
Use an air impact to remove exhaust bolts. They never snap. It is the slow force of the manual socket that breaks them.

gornati
08-14-10, 08:59 PM
jay i will try that, think that will have a proper angle to reach? with the engine in the car?

gornati
08-14-10, 09:00 PM
i'll do that this week and post the result.

Once i had a ford escort with basically the same noise, it was a missing clip in the brake caliper, which was allowing a pin to touch the inside of the disc.




Gornati,
Roll down the windows and try to determine what side or section of the car the brake noise is coming from. If you alone can't determine the direction of the noise, have your wife ride with you. Women have more distinct hearing than men. Make it a family project. This way you can determine which set of pads are the noisey culprit.
The noise may be coming from pad vibration or built up brake dust. There is a product, made by several different manufactures, which absorbs / insulates the pads against pad vibration. Once you determine which set of pads are making the noise, disassemble the caliper and check the back of the pads. there should be this rubbery substance on the back ( flat metal side of the pad ). Some brake pad manufacturers provided a composite gasket to cover this area. Either application was designed to cut down on the annoying noise of pad vibration. You can associate the source of the vibration to hard chalk or a fingernail dragged down a slate chalkboard.
Now that you have opened up the area from which the noise is eminating, clean the calipers and surrounding area of built up brake dust.

The 425, and I believe the relative engines, were prone to the frozen exhaust manifold studs. A lot of heat is generated in this area. Heating the head of the bolt may help, but there is no gaurantee. The use of heat is to remove any built up corrosion which may have accumulated under the bolt head. It is difficut to get heat to the threads of the bolt.
I have had some luck spraying the bolts with the affore mentioned PB Blaster. Spray it not only on the bolt heads, but also at the seam of the mating sufaces of the manifold and the heads, in the area of the bolt holes. I let the first generous application set for a day. The thought here is that it may take that long for the Blaster to penetrate through the built up rust. The next day, hit it again and after a short period ( 1 hour ) try the bolts. You may find that the proper wrench/socket size won't fit the bolt head. Thirty years of hot and cold will corrrode the bolt head so that it maybe undersize.
Sometimes, If the bolt snaps, there is enough relief of tension on the bolt that you can then turn the remains of the bolt out. This being the case, I have chosen to try the bolts that have plenty of clearance first. If they don't come free and break, I then try the other bolts. Judging how much pull I used on the bolt that broke, I try not to exceed that amount of pull. I remove as many bolts as I can. If I determine that I can't break the bolt free, I'll cut the head off. Removing the manifold will still be difficult because the length of the bolt may not allow the removal of the manifold, but it will allow lateral motion of the manifold. Use a rotary file or a stone in a right angle die grinder to cut the bolt body shorter. After you remove the manifold you still have something to grab onto.

jayoldschool
08-15-10, 12:11 AM
Take out the inner fender and you should have enough room. Post some pics for us when you do it!

YourMainParadox
08-15-10, 01:00 PM
what is the length size and thread pattern of the stock manifold bolts? I already have 2 broken ones and need to drill them and replace them. Also what type is best to get so that this does not happen again? (mine is a 472 but that and the 425 have the same manifolds I was told)

gornati
08-22-10, 09:13 AM
Ok, solved one of them...

The headers/manifold is indeed leaking but not on the block, it is leaking on the connection between the exhaust with the manifold, EASY FIX.

The P.O. had installed a 2,5" from the headers to the end, in which it was a flowmaster super 40 series, pictures this a 425 2,5" with a single flowmaster... NOISY!!!

The grinding noise it is the lack of bushings in the front suspension and the terrible condition the front springs are... now i need help buying the front bushings and ball joints..

deVille33
08-22-10, 12:23 PM
The ball joints should be an easy fix, as those joints were used on several GM vehicles in the late '70s. Prices range from $22 - $35 for the uppers, now that TRW is no longer in the auto parts market. The lowers run a little higher, price wise.
Which bushings? The end links are relatively cheap. The upper control arm bushings are another story. If you replace the front springs, it would be advantageous to change the upper control arm bushings. I would replace with urethane, as it will withstand the heat generated by the exhaust manifolds better than the original rubber parts.