: Extended shop visit for Ultraview repairs



tbss08
07-28-10, 11:24 PM
I've been an avid GM loyal customer for over 30 years. In the past six years I've purchase three new Z06 Corvettes, a SSR, a Trailblazer SS and the Caddy. Three of the last four vehicles I've had problems with, either dealer induced or defects from the factory. Our Trailblazer SS has been a good vehicle, two of the Z06's and now the Caddy have not been.

My car has been in the shop almost three weeks. I've filed a customer case with Cadillac and it has been upgraded to the Executive level.

My troubles started in March with the dreaded pop of the sunroof. I can live with some squeaks and rattles but this popping was almost as loud as a firecracker going off in the car. The dealer did a good job isolating the noise and fixing it with the TSB/PIC.
June the noise is back and the sound was similar to rubbing glass against glass. This would happen almost constantly and was nerve racking to say the least. The dealer had the car to fix the Ultraview and correct the CHIMSL paint chipping issue. When I got the car back the noise was gone for about a week and then came back sounding almost like bubble wrap popping.
I dropped the car off this time on the 12th of July. I've been told by customer service that a Body Engineer was gong to be at the dealership last week Wednesday to help fix the car, this didn't happen. Next I was told the Engineer and the Area Rep were going to be there Tuesday this week and I would have a phone call from the customer service rep on what the plan would be to fix the car. Tuesday I get no follow up call so I call Wednesday morning, leave a message and finally get a call back around 1:30 this afternoon. The customer service agent stated he was waiting on Engineering to give him some more information before he called me back to let me know what they were doing to fix the car.
I get a call from the dealership with a whole new story tonight.
NO Engineer, has been to the dealer to look at the car, they've been told one was coming only to get another call from the technical people to look at other things.They have looked at, seat belts, seat belt hold down bolts, seat bolts, trunk hinges, hood hinges, door hinges etc...
The Tech Center now wants them to remove the sunroof module and drive the car around to see if they hear the noise. A great big hole in the roof with wind noise and everything else and they want to know if they hear the popping noise. I asked what if the noise is still there? The dealer said they asked the same question and got no response from the tech center. I asked what if the noise goes away. They asked the same question and got no response.

I'm fed up with the run around. The New GM is no different than the Old GM in my book.
Unless some miracle happens I'm done with GM.
Off rant.

V&Vette
07-28-10, 11:58 PM
That sux, sorry to hear.

I'm surprised about the Z06's having issues and not the Trailblazer. I've also heard absolute horror stories about the SSR.

Anyway, you should take the car back, let the sunroof go afoul, then sue GM for neglect. Maybe the sunroof can somehow break and suddenly because of such, you develop a paranoia of being in cars and now can never ride to work again?? Trauma....15% cut please.

sybersport
07-29-10, 12:56 AM
So I understand that there is clearly a problem with your sunroof...

But is the service problem here GM, or the particular dealership you have taken your vehicle to?

If the problem gets fixed (eventually), then it sounds like it's the dealers inability to properly assess and fix the issue that was the problem.

Maybe take the car somewhere else for a "second" opinion?

tbss08
07-29-10, 09:12 AM
The dealer has the issue isolated to the sunroof but there is no clear way to fix it. GM has said the engineer will be on site to fix the problem but each time it is another phone call and no engineer.
They are suppose to pull the sunroof out today. I bet the noise goes away but then what?

CIWS
07-29-10, 09:28 AM
My car has been in the shop almost three weeks. I've filed a customer case with Cadillac and it has been upgraded to the Executive level.

Ask them to cover you for a month's car payment since they cannot fix the problem without keeping it and using you for a test bed.

newcadman
07-29-10, 10:25 AM
If I may suggest ,keep thinking chain of command and the cliche that "the squeaky wheel gets the oil"!
I know it's a real pain you know where to have to keep complaining but I've found that it's the only thing that seems to produce results.
If you can get the attention of one of the higher ups don't be afraid to tell them repeatedly both verbally and in writing how sorry you are that you didn't buy Japanese or European and that you absolutely demand satisfaction in a timely manner (even give them a deadline time wise) or you won't be doing business with them ever again.
Again, I've found the key is to get to somebody higher up in the chain of command even if that means continually going above the previous person's head. They may not like it ,but that's too bad, so you're not on their Xmas list anymore!
Don't be afraid to send fax after fax. Try not to dialogue with them, instead create a PAPER TRAIL.
I've seen this "approach" work for several friends in the past.
Maybe give it a try, after all, at this stage what have you got to lose.
Best of luck and let us know the end result if you can.

Mike 09 V
07-29-10, 10:55 AM
I found that in situations like this it is best to change tactics. A:Obviously they cannot fix the roof. B:The factory is taking too long to have their "engineer" to look at it and there is no reason in the world you should be without your car that long.
So I would recommend that they change the entire sunroof ASAP. Sometimes the people who have to fix something overlook the obvious solution in the interest of saving themselves money. Even though it costs them a fortune in time and aggravation and in this case a loss of a customer. There is something wrong with the roof. Ergo the roof needs to be changed. Go get 'em.

Florian
07-29-10, 12:02 PM
lemon law.


F

1-2-N-V
07-29-10, 01:00 PM
i guess you haven't tried the tape trick. taping the clips that hold the trim ring in place. keeping the two surfaces separated. that is where the noise is coming from

shade
07-29-10, 02:48 PM
lemon law.


F

Agree 100%
Call a lemon law attorney they work wonders. I had to work with one on my Tahoe and it turned out very well.
I am now on my 3rd time at the dealer with a nasty noise inside my driver door.
If there has to be a 4th time I will call a lawyer.

mugatu22
07-29-10, 03:12 PM
I'm fed up with the run around. The New GM is no different than the Old GM in my book.
Unless some miracle happens I'm done with GM.
Off rant.

I'm sorry to hear about your problems w/your car. You're in the same boat as me. Some people here believe I'm Mr Negative on the V, but truth is I like the car but got fed up with GM (via multiple different vehicles) for similar reasons as you. GM never seems to change and probably never will. Too big and far too stubborn, and WAY too proud. I'm stubborn enough to hope they will though, which is why I'm on a forum voicing my dislike for their lack of quality control.



i guess you haven't tried the tape trick. taping the clips that hold the trim ring in place. keeping the two surfaces separated. that is where the noise is coming from

This is something that is a deal breaker for me. A $70K vehicle should never, ever require a "tape trick" to fix it. Or thin, easily chipped paint. Or squeaky front wheels. There's obviously a design/QC problem with the vehicle. In my experience, these problems are standard-issue GM. :(


Agree 100%
Call a lemon law attorney they work wonders. I had to work with one on my Tahoe and it turned out very well.
I am now on my 3rd time at the dealer with a nasty noise inside my driver door.
If there has to be a 4th time I will call a lawyer.

+1 get in touch with a lawyer. You may be surprised how quickly your dealership escalates you from Average Customer to #1 Priority Customer.

Good luck!!!!

tbss08
07-29-10, 03:21 PM
i guess you haven't tried the tape trick. taping the clips that hold the trim ring in place. keeping the two surfaces separated. that is where the noise is coming from

Tried the tape, that is when the grinding of glass noise started. I am in contact with an attorney and will start the path of Lemon Law after the 30 days in the shop has expired, which is very soon. The squeaky wheel is going to get very annoying here shortly.

tbss08
07-29-10, 03:24 PM
I'm sorry to hear about your problems w/your car. You're in the same boat as me. Some people here believe I'm Mr Negative on the V, but truth is I like the car but got fed up with GM (via multiple different vehicles) for similar reasons as you. GM never seems to change and probably never will. Too big and far too stubborn, and WAY too proud. I'm stubborn enough to hope they will though, which is why I'm on a forum voicing my dislike for their lack of quality control.




This is something that is a deal breaker for me. A $70K vehicle should never, ever require a "tape trick" to fix it. Or thin, easily chipped paint. Or squeaky front wheels. There's obviously a design/QC problem with the vehicle. In my experience, these problems are standard-issue GM. :(



+1 get in touch with a lawyer. You may be surprised how quickly your dealership escalates you from Average Customer to #1 Priority Customer.

Good luck!!!!
The dealer I believe is doing all they can, GM has the brick wall built and is not breaking it down. I've got a 12 hour mid shift tonight and I'm off tomorrow. I canceled some vacation plans because it appears I will still be without the car so tomorrow will be make GM miserable day.

neuronbob
07-29-10, 03:39 PM
+2 on getting a lemon law plan started....and hopefully find a sunroof delete car.

Why can't they just replace the Ultraview instead of trying over and over again to fix it, using your car as a test subject?

tbss08
07-29-10, 08:57 PM
I spoke with the person handling my case at the executive level. The dealership was still working on the car tonight. Engineering thinks the noise is coming from the rear end but without them being there it sounds like they are arm chair quarterbacking it.
I have to go by the dealer tomorrow, my three week loaner has dealer plates which expire on August 1st. I'll take a look at the car, first look in three weeks and talk with the tech to see what he thinks.
I've told GM I want a buyback on the vehicle, if they don't come back with a yes it goes the lemon route.
If it goes back I'm staying away from GM. I'll fix up my Impala and drive it till it won't drive no more and look for something else.

I'll let everyone know if they do eventually find something out on the car.
:wave:

CVP33
07-29-10, 10:17 PM
No comment.

No fkn comment.

No fkn comment at all.

Alright, all done not commenting.

tbss08
07-30-10, 12:56 PM
Okay got the update from the dealer this morning. If anyone has to have their Sunroof pulled it is a bear. Over three hours to pull the headliner and passenger seat and about an hour or so to pull the sunroof.
The noise is still there. I should hear something else back when Engineering lets them know what next to look at. Something in the body or rear end is making noises just what??

cbloveday
07-30-10, 01:04 PM
Probably a pack of Marlboro with a lighter inside.

commander112
07-30-10, 03:00 PM
Okay got the update from the dealer this morning. If anyone has to have their Sunroof pulled it is a bear. Over three hours to pull the headliner and passenger seat and about an hour or so to pull the sunroof.
The noise is still there. I should hear something else back when Engineering lets them know what next to look at. Something in the body or rear end is making noises just what??


At this point, I'd even think about taking the car to GM Engineering for them to look at. It can't be more than a four hour drive for you and perhaps you can talk them into putting you up and a tour while you are in town.

tbss08
07-30-10, 10:31 PM
Got another update from the dealer tonight. They have the case escalated to some Expedited Engineering group. The person in charge is out until Monday and I should hear something back then.
My car has now been in the shop for a total of 26 business days to get this noise fixed. I'd hate to push the Lemon Law or buyback real hard because of the extra items I've put on the car. I put the carbon fiber pieces up front and in the back, Corsa exhaust and jut put a new set of tires on. I don't think I've put about 40 miles on the new tires which were put on in June.

I am suppose to know more on Monday and will update when and if the noise is finally located. My wife and I were talking tonight wondering how many other cars have had this problem. It had to occur sometime on another car because why would the TSB call out removing the Ultraview and see if the noise goes away?

tbss08
07-30-10, 10:35 PM
At this point, I'd even think about taking the car to GM Engineering for them to look at. It can't be more than a four hour drive for you and perhaps you can talk them into putting you up and a tour while you are in town.

An engineer was suppose to be in town looking at the car but so far no one has shown up. It would be a wild ride with no sunroof, no headliner, no passenger seat and probably about half the alarms lite up on the dash.

From my experiences so far GM gives the impression they just don't care. They hope to push it far enough and have the customer just give up and accept the car back. It has been long enough not driving my car I'd almost have to have a refresher orientation of the vehicle.

commander112
07-31-10, 08:28 AM
Not suggesting to drive it without the roof. Since the noise is still there with the roof they could put it back in.

tbss08
07-31-10, 11:09 AM
If they get the sunroof back in this week it might be an idea, the headliner will probably have to be replaced.
I am going to stop by the shop on Monday and I might take a few pictures of the car. Not knowing how much longer the car will be in the shop I figure I'll take the Radar detector back out and some other stuff just in case the car doesn't come home.

commander112
07-31-10, 12:09 PM
Just a suggestion. As an airplane owner, there are some things that are just better to have the factory eyes on. Every few years my plane goes back to the factory for service. They just know the machine better than someone in the field. Make GM pay for you time as they would have to pay someone for their time to come to you. In the past, I had to get the help fro Cadillac Customer Service and found them to be great. They paid for my Caddy rental and paid a car payment for the delay in repairs to my car due to parts after an accident. I know it is a pain in the ass but there is a solution and the manufacturer should stand behind the product fully.

tbss08
07-31-10, 12:32 PM
Matt has helped out and my problem has been escalated to the Executive level. They have said once everything is fixed we will compensation. I have made two car payments and only driven my car for about 10 days out of the two months.
This is getting old real quick. I put gas in the loaner today and started thinking of the good driving weather I've driven it instead of the V. We will see what happens on Monday after all the expediting.

shade
07-31-10, 01:06 PM
Again just my .02 you should talk to an lemon law atty about compensation. GM may offer 2 months of payments, which is OK, but I know you will be able to get 5-10k easily out of them or a lemon law buyback if you push hard.
As far as your upgrades you can either pull them off and replace with stock or you can again talk to an atty and may be able to get some $ back on the items.

Sorry bro but I wouldnt want a car back with thats been basically tore down and rebuilt. Not for the 60k+ we spent on these machines.

tbss08
07-31-10, 06:09 PM
I hear you about the Lemon Law. I have four more shop days till the magic 30 days in the shop. This puts the car in the Lemon law for Indiana. I've been down the road and through arbitration on another car. I won the arbitration and GM ended up buying it back on the Lemon Law. I learned a lot from that experience and I know I'll use an attorney this time.
I'll wait to start things until after Monday. I am suppose to hear back from GM on my request. I'll see what happens. It will be interesting to find out what is the root cause of the noise is.

tbss08
08-02-10, 10:30 PM
I spoke with the dealer and the GM rep on the repairs to the V. The dealer believes they have isolated the noise to the right rear area above the rear door. They do not know what is making the noise. The car has now been in the shop since the 12th of July this time for repairs to the noise.
After speaking with GM they have arranged for an engineer to be here within 24-48 hours to fix the problem. This is their last effort to repair the car. I'll know on Thursday which way this is going to go. I am going to the dealer tomorrow to have a look at the car and also talk with the service manager. I'd like to find out the real story on what the heck is happening. I have been told by GM an engineer was here and looked at the car and I get told by the dealer no engineer has been here just phone support from the technical center. I've got all the phone calls documented with names dates and what was said.

Anyone know a good Lemon Law attorney? I feel it is going to head that way if it is not corrected by the end of the week.

CTS NV
08-03-10, 12:02 AM
Hopefully, they can figure out what's going on. Just keep pushing them and asked to get compensated for your few months.

The ultraview issue affects many of us, but probably to a lesser extent than you have experienced...so although this might not be what you want to hear, you are doing all of us a service by getting this issue root caused. There's at least another few hundred folks waiting to see what happens.

PS: I had to go through 3 attempts + an onsite engineer to fix a leaky diff on my V1 --but thankfully did not require as much downtime. I've found German cars to be no less aggravating, as I had a blown engine in an M3 that no one could root cause but was told by BMW to go through my insurance (!) to replace even while under warranty.

MReiland
08-03-10, 10:35 AM
I definately agree that TBSS08's problems with the Ultraview need to be fixed in a timely manner and done correctly, I just wanted to throw it out there to be cautious of throwing around the term 'lawyer' when you are talking to Customer Service or the dealer. I have helped a few other members of the board that have went down that road and internally from what I can tell, if you tell Customer Service you are taking it to your lawyer, I think your case probably gets handed to the GM lawyers at about the same time. If it was a small mom and pop operation and you told them you were going to get a lawyer to get what you want, they would probably react differently than an extremely large corporation with a full time legal staff on hand well prepared to handle anything that comes there way. Just throwing it out there, use that card only as a last resort.....

shade
08-03-10, 02:40 PM
Agreed with MReiland but at some point you need to have recourse with these guys.
Krohn and Moss was who I used with good success.

thebigjimsho
08-03-10, 02:57 PM
It's too bad. I feel for you and you shouldn't have to go through this. Hopefully the dealer gets it right and GM helps take care of you...

tbss08
08-03-10, 05:59 PM
I definately agree that TBSS08's problems with the Ultraview need to be fixed in a timely manner and done correctly, I just wanted to throw it out there to be cautious of throwing around the term 'lawyer' when you are talking to Customer Service or the dealer. I have helped a few other members of the board that have went down that road and internally from what I can tell, if you tell Customer Service you are taking it to your lawyer, I think your case probably gets handed to the GM lawyers at about the same time. If it was a small mom and pop operation and you told them you were going to get a lawyer to get what you want, they would probably react differently than an extremely large corporation with a full time legal staff on hand well prepared to handle anything that comes there way. Just throwing it out there, use that card only as a last resort.....

Matt,
I spoke with the assistant service manager at the dealership today. GM is telling me they will have an engineer on site within 24-48 hours but yet they tell the dealer expect a phone call from an engineer in 24-48 hours. Furthermore GM stated, "There will be a Body Engineer and the Area Service Rep on site Tuesday 27 July to fix the problem." After talking with the service manager today, there has been no engineer sent to the dealership. Everything has been done over the phone. I've said this before, the New GM is acting just like the old GM. I have owned GM products for 30 years and have never been kicked in the teeth like these past two vehicles. I did tell the rep on the phone if this did not get fixed I would be talking to an attorney to get it resolve. He told me if I did get an attorney to let him know. I figured he would drop the paperwork like a hot stone on the lap of the nearest attorney he could find. I really don't want to head down this path and force the buyback of the car but I don't know what else it is going to take to get the car repaired in a timely manner.

For those who are experiencing the noise in the sunroof, mine has been narrowed to the area above the right rear door where the roof meets the sail area on the side. The tech has pretty well pinpointed this area but does not know what is causing the noise. Right now my car is in pieces in the shop, the headliner is out, all the panels are out and the sunroof is out. They did have the seats out but put them back in to drive it around and isolate the noise. I am suppose to hear something back by Thursday on what they are doing to fix the car.

nradcad
08-03-10, 10:00 PM
This story is terrible. I'm sorry for all your trouble.

I'm getting ready to drop my car off for a second time to try and get the ultraview pop noise fixed.

The first time I had the wheel click fix done and oil changed and also alerted the dealer tech to the popping sounding coming from the ultraview. 2 days later, they came back and said they didn't hear anything. I was like, ":bonkers: Are you effin kidding me?"

So I drove it around with him in the car and then he suddenly heard the noise. However, I needed my car back for some upgrades at another shop and couldn't leave it with them for more time.

So I'm taking it there this week for round two. After reading all this, I'm wondering if this will really fix the issue. I want it fixed so badly.

The funny thing about me is I love my car a lot, but these utter annoyances detract so much from it.

tbss08
08-04-10, 06:55 AM
I know the feeling of wanting the noise to go away. It is very embarrassing to be driving friends around listening to the popping noise from the roof. I used to enjoy the heck out of this car, GM has managed to take that joy away.
Good luck on getting your sunroof looked at and fixed.

tbss08
08-04-10, 05:31 PM
Just got the phone call from the service manager at the dealership. The engineers are on site and working with the technician to troubleshoot the car. I should get a call back on what they find later on and I'll post up the results.

mugatu22
08-04-10, 06:14 PM
What a nightmare :ill: Good luck.

tbss08
08-05-10, 06:34 PM
Well they found where the noise is coming from on the car. It is located in a weld above the right rear door where the sail area meets the roof. They put some vise grips on the weld and the noise went away. Now the big question is how in the heck do you repair it?

shade
08-05-10, 07:20 PM
Gorilla glue? :)

Damn hope they get a fix. I'd be a little worried about the structural integrity of the weld...Have they xrayed it or inspected it further?

nradcad
08-05-10, 07:35 PM
So, this is actually a little different than your typical popping sound coming from the ultraview, right? Or, did you think they were one in the same?

tbss08
08-05-10, 07:41 PM
Initially it appeared to be the ultraview, but it kept coming back after each look at the ultraview. They did not xray the weld but were able to pinch the weld with vise grips to hold it and the noise would be gone. The dealership I don't believe would have the capability to x-ray it. The dealer is waiting on word from engineering on what next to do and how to repair it.
Oh and Gorilla glue is out of the question along with the spray in foam insulation.

mugatu22
08-05-10, 08:21 PM
Have you contacted a lemon law attorney yet? If not I'm not sure what you're waiting for.

If it's been 30 days on the repair (total), demand a buy back and either get a new V (roll the dice) or try something else.

A popping WELD isn't something I'd be comfortable having "fixed." That's a structural problem from the factory. The car is damaged and you're paying for it with your time and money.

turbol15
08-05-10, 09:46 PM
car is done. get a new V and be done with it. it cant be fixed right. needs to be taken down to bear metal then rewelded painted etc wtf wants that back.

V&Vette
08-05-10, 09:56 PM
Have you contacted a lemon law attorney yet? If not I'm not sure what you're waiting for.

If it's been 30 days on the repair (total), demand a buy back and either get a new V (roll the dice) or try something else.

A popping WELD isn't something I'd be comfortable having "fixed." That's a structural problem from the factory. The car is damaged and you're paying for it with your time and money.

+1, structural problems are not acceptable.

CTS NV
08-06-10, 12:18 AM
Wow! Interested in knowing what the fix is.

With so many cars having creaks we are attributing to the sunroof, this sounds frightening. I think there may be a bigger problem to address...

MReiland
08-06-10, 07:35 AM
It isn't clear that a weld is broken, cold, yet from the description. BTW, there are over 4000 resistance spot welds on the vehicle including rows of them down every flange if you pull back the weatherstripping......

CIWS
08-06-10, 08:41 AM
Well they found where the noise is coming from on the car. It is located in a weld above the right rear door where the sail area meets the roof. They put some vise grips on the weld and the noise went away. Now the big question is how in the heck do you repair it?


I seriously hope they offer you a buyback on that car. If it's already showing bad/cold welds and being basically brand new, I'd have serious reservations about keeping it. Or for that matter about them if they tried to give it back to you after finding such a manufacturing / quality control problem on it. GM needs to take that car back to the plant and ask them WTF happened.

tbss08
08-06-10, 08:44 AM
The dealer did not say the weld is "Broken". The noise is coming from the weld area. It could be something like a piece of slag or a spot weld flexing. I am not the body or structural engineer so I am waiting on their expertise to define the repair procedure and go from there. I like the "V" but am frustrated at the lack of movement in the support field, the dealer all along has been pushing to identify and repair the noise. Thanks to help from MReiland the ball is rolling now. I waiting on a call from GM to see what the next step is going to be. I know everyone is jumping on the Lemon Law attorney, buyback, make them pay etc... I'm patient to a degree, granted my patients were getting thin and I'm frustrated at how long this process has taken but at least now GM has put the right individuals on this and are getting it corrected. More to come as I find out what the root cause and repairs are.

mugatu22
08-06-10, 03:34 PM
And how would you have received the help/assistance if you hadn't been on this forum? As a general rule, GM should take care of their customers before they have to sign up for an obscure Cadillac forum to find help.

Why would you want to keep a broken car? Especially one that has been out of service this long, while you're making payments on it? Get a new one.

neuronbob
08-06-10, 04:34 PM
^^^^^^
At least the help is available via the forum. The GM representation on this forum is above and beyond what I have seen with any other make I've experienced....and they actually help!

...but yeah, you've got a point.

Keep us posted, tbss!

tbss08
08-06-10, 04:55 PM
I'll keep everyone posted. I am waiting on a call from GM, was suppose to come in at 3:00 PM EST, no call. We are also waiting on a John Boos butcher block counter top to arrive and then I might be able to get to the dealer and see the weld they are talking about.

tbss08
08-07-10, 01:05 PM
I got a phone call from the dealership last night. I didn't have a chance to make it out there because we were waiting on a butcher block to arrive. It didn't show up until around 5 and by then it was a little late to get to the dealer.
The dealer said the weld which requires repair is the one at the pinch point where the roof and sail meet. GM engineering was sending an email with the repair procedure to get it fixed. The body shop should have the car Monday and do the repair. I'll see if I can't get a photo or two when it is in the shop on Monday.
More to come as the repairs progress.
Oh and Monday marks the fourth week my car has been in the shop this time. GM has said they won't do a buyback, well not voluntarily anyway. We shall see this week.

turbol15
08-07-10, 02:42 PM
Get rid of the car. it will never be right. They need to buyback the car as its a structural defect.

shade
08-07-10, 06:41 PM
Yup and think about this - they (the dealer) may put the repairs onto carfax.
I wouldnt buy a used car with something on the carfax there are too many of the same vehicle with no blemishes. Just food for thought.

mugatu22
08-07-10, 07:57 PM
I got a phone call from the dealership last night. I didn't have a chance to make it out there because we were waiting on a butcher block to arrive. It didn't show up until around 5 and by then it was a little late to get to the dealer.
The dealer said the weld which requires repair is the one at the pinch point where the roof and sail meet. GM engineering was sending an email with the repair procedure to get it fixed. The body shop should have the car Monday and do the repair. I'll see if I can't get a photo or two when it is in the shop on Monday.
More to come as the repairs progress.
Oh and Monday marks the fourth week my car has been in the shop this time. GM has said they won't do a buyback, well not voluntarily anyway. We shall see this week.

Of course they won't do a buy back voluntarily, why would they? This is why you need a Lemon Law attorney, for the millionth time.

If it's been in the shop for 30 days TOTAL (much less in one shot), you can demand a buy back or replacement.

Why wouldn't you do this? The car is roached AND they've wasted 30 days of your life w/out the car you bought. This isn't what you paid for.

Butcher block or not, make them take it back. :hammer:

turbol15
08-07-10, 10:12 PM
please delete this post. Its like talking to a guy that his wife/girlfriend is cheating and he keeps saying no no she isnt.

tbss08
08-08-10, 08:33 AM
please delete this post. Its like talking to a guy that his wife/girlfriend is cheating and he keeps saying no no she isnt.

Thanks this is such an informative response. Do you even know what the law is with a lemon buyback?? Do you know how much of a pain in the a$$ it is to do a Lemon Law buyback? Probably not but you sure can mouth off about deleting a post to inform other owners about noises in the roof sections of our cars.

Indiana Lemon Law requires the car to either have:
1) Four repair attempts for the problem. Mine is on the third attempt.

2) 30 Business days in for repair efforts on the same problem.

I've got the days counted down and have given GM the drop dead date for when the car will be in my possession with my big a$$ sitting in the drivers seat driving or they will own the vehicle. That date is not far in the future.

This is will be my last post on the repairs. Good luck to anyone else with noises in the roof.

CIWS
08-08-10, 08:50 AM
Yeah sounds like you're going to have a fight on your hands and you will have to give them this opportunity to fix the issue before you could move forward legally, much less the pain in the ass it is overall. I do honestly hope they're able to resolve your situation and you can simply move on. But a funky weld, with over 4000 of them on the car, makes me wonder which other ones didn't go right either. Good luck man, and thanks for posting the info for us to see.

turbol15
08-08-10, 08:54 AM
this is no ordinary repair. this is a structural defect which could pose a hazard to you or anyone else in the car.

MReiland
08-08-10, 10:44 AM
this is no ordinary repair. this is a structural defect which could pose a hazard to you or anyone else in the car.
And how would you know this information again??? The welds in the Body-In-White are nearly 100% robotically applied to fractions of a milimeter, same robots as every other auto manufacturer in the world. In LGR's case I believe they are Fanuc's. The weld controllers are tied directly to the robot to tell it that it passed the required amount of current and if it didn't the vehicle automatically goes into an inspection station to be repaired if necessary. Again, I haven't seen an update on exactly where the noise is coming (a burr or spec of slag on the flange possibly) from but to make the satement that it is a structural defect is nothing more than :stirpot:

Gary Wells
08-08-10, 11:03 AM
Some of you guys really need to get a grip. It's 1 thing to offer advice, but totally another thing to get your blood up just because the poster does not accept your advice. The best that you can do is to accept gracefully that the OP will consider your advice or he has reason to not do so. It generally takes a structural, mechanical, and / or quality engineer to determine what is or is not a structural defect. 1 defective weld out of several thousand does not make for a structural defect. Unless you have walked a mile in a man's shoes, don't be so quick to judge. The problem is that the roof made noise, not that the roof fell off at 50 MPH. People that get their blood up just because somebody else does not accept their advice should not be making recommendations, it that's simple. And for those of you that like to play engineer, how many of you can accurately describe the difference between the term repair and rework. (Don't be getting excited, Matt, none of these comments were directed at you.)

turbol15
08-08-10, 11:09 AM
i guess we are all a little annoyed by the way they are treating you. Bad enough the cost of the car. but then to not have it for more than a month while gm tries to figure out the problem. i mean why should you have to go through the trouble of having the car painted and repaired thats not the agreement you entered into when you bought the car. I can see if it was a steering problem etc. but to tear the whole car apart and then the paint down to metal to be rewelded or whatever is sheer ridiculous. You should not have to go through this.

tbss08
08-08-10, 12:31 PM
And how would you know this information again??? The welds in the Body-In-White are nearly 100% robotically applied to fractions of a milimeter, same robots as every other auto manufacturer in the world. In LGR's case I believe they are Fanuc's. The weld controllers are tied directly to the robot to tell it that it passed the required amount of current and if it didn't the vehicle automatically goes into an inspection station to be repaired if necessary. Again, I haven't seen an update on exactly where the noise is coming (a burr or spec of slag on the flange possibly) from but to make the satement that it is a structural defect is nothing more than :stirpot:

Matt,
I again wanted to thank you for your support and help on root causing and getting the repair ball rolling. I've said it time and time again, I am not a structural engineer and I do believe if it was a structural problem GM would not hesitate to get the car in their possession and figure out what the heck happened. I've watched the ultimate factory on the build of the Camaro and am impressed with the robotic welding of that car. I've also toured the Dana facility where the Z06/ZR1 frames are made out of aluminum. Both the people doing the welding and the robots were just plain awesome. Here again all welds were inspected and a frame set up for re-inspect if any weld was out of spec.
Who knows right now what happened to the pinch weld in question. I'll see if GM can get the car right and back in my possession by the deadline, if not I have no other recourse but a fight.

Anyone experiencing noises in their roofs, I wish you the best and maybe all the bad Karma associated with this repair will do good for anyone else headed down this road.
:closed:

snzuloz
08-08-10, 12:38 PM
Matt,
I again wanted to thank you for your support and help on root causing and getting the repair ball rolling. I've said it time and time again, I am not a structural engineer and I do believe if it was a structural problem GM would not hesitate to get the car in their possession and figure out what the heck happened. I've watched the ultimate factory on the build of the Camaro and am impressed with the robotic welding of that car. I've also toured the Dana facility where the Z06/ZR1 frames are made out of aluminum. Both the people doing the welding and the robots were just plain awesome. Here again all welds were inspected and a frame set up for re-inspect if any weld was out of spec.
Who knows right now what happened to the pinch weld in question. I'll see if GM can get the car right and back in my possession by the deadline, if not I have no other recourse but a fight.

Anyone experiencing noises in their roofs, I wish you the best and maybe all the bad Karma associated with this repair will do good for anyone else headed down this road.
:closed:

Really sorry to hear about your misfortune with the car, hope everything turns out great for you regardless of how it turns out. Thanks for the posts, and the information. Troy

Ketzer
08-08-10, 01:52 PM
My sympathies for your situation. I have had dealership/GM issues myself. Only you can decide what course of action is the best for you. Good luck!


Jeff-

CTS NV
08-09-10, 02:02 AM
If you can, please keep us posted on the repair.

There's a lot of assumption here that your situation is unique. If that's not the case, there is benefit to sharing/collaborating with other owners that may have a similar issue.

Hopefully in the end, this can be resolved for you in an equitable manner that also takes into account your loss of time and driving enjoyment...


Matt,
I again wanted to thank you for your support and help on root causing and getting the repair ball rolling. I've said it time and time again, I am not a structural engineer and I do believe if it was a structural problem GM would not hesitate to get the car in their possession and figure out what the heck happened. I've watched the ultimate factory on the build of the Camaro and am impressed with the robotic welding of that car. I've also toured the Dana facility where the Z06/ZR1 frames are made out of aluminum. Both the people doing the welding and the robots were just plain awesome. Here again all welds were inspected and a frame set up for re-inspect if any weld was out of spec.
Who knows right now what happened to the pinch weld in question. I'll see if GM can get the car right and back in my possession by the deadline, if not I have no other recourse but a fight.

Anyone experiencing noises in their roofs, I wish you the best and maybe all the bad Karma associated with this repair will do good for anyone else headed down this road.
:closed: