: All KPE CAI owners.....



Razorecko
07-27-10, 10:33 AM
Can you guys do me a favor and see how tight your screws are on the maf sensor ? When I was previously adjusting mine I found that the screws would slowly back up. It was until I put a dab of med strength locktite that it stayed put.

V&Vette
07-27-10, 10:47 AM
Pretty tight, everything still looks good. Thats on the Airaid CAI (same thing).

newcadman
07-27-10, 10:54 AM
You may not wish to secure those screws too tight until you hear the results of the before (STOCK) and the after(KPE cai installed) dyno numbers.
My V auto is still bone stock so this should be a most interesting comparison.
You may wish to stay tuned. (no pun intended)

Razorecko
07-27-10, 10:56 AM
You may not wish to secure those screws too tight until you hear the results of the before (STOCK) and the after(KPE cai installed) dyno numbers.
My V auto is still bone stock so this should be a most interesting comparison.
You may wish to stay tuned. (no pun intended)

Yea i've been hearing some things about that. Luckily today i'm hitting the dyno in an hour, the same one i went to before with my ported ls7 and kpe intake. After the last results which clearly showed I was lean in the lower range and most likely had a dirty maf sensor. I cleaned the maf sensor and lost like 1mpg so that seemed to be the culprit, lol. Will update that old thread when i get some #'s

newcadman
07-27-10, 11:40 AM
The reason for my wishing to dyno at this point in time is based on the fact I'm hearing reports that stock V's are actually LOSING horsepower after installing JUST the KPE cai system!
We shall see. In my opinion dyno numbers don't lie!

Gary Wells
07-27-10, 12:44 PM
You may not wish to secure those screws too tight until you hear the results of the before (STOCK) and the after(KPE cai installed) dyno numbers.
My V auto is still bone stock so this should be a most interesting comparison.
You may wish to stay tuned. (no pun intended)

Dudes:
I have a feeling that you guys are up to something, and no pun intended on that either. I feel sure that this will be very educational. You guys are both my heros.

PhxTriode
07-27-10, 01:03 PM
I have checked mine twice since install and no issues with the screws. I have also heard the same thing about dyno #'s. I unfortunately did not have a before dyno # but an after with 9.5" pulley, larger injectors and tune (along with KPE) was able to get 620rwtq @ 3350 rpm's through stock exhaust. I am curious though, I was only able to produce 565rwhp perhaps there is not enough flow at higher rpm to support higher HP #'s

lawnstripes
07-27-10, 07:17 PM
watching this one......... hope i dont have a $375 PAPER WEIGHT!

KPE
07-27-10, 07:46 PM
Hello R,

Your emails and dyno sheets have been reviewed and this is the problem:

Mathematical fact- horsepower and torque match exactly at 5252 RPM…always with no exception as it is in the mathematical formula. Any dyno graph showing horsepower and torque not matching at 5252 RPM is not accurate.


The only way to produce a graph showing HP and TQ matching at a different RPM than 5252 is with inaccurate engine RPM input. For example, approximating engine RPM from dyno roller speed rather than direct input from ignition coil. Horsepower and or torque are calculated based on RPM. Inaccurate RPM input produces inaccurate horsepower and or torque.

Two dyno runs displayed on the same graph cannot indicate horsepower and torque matching (crossing) at different RPM between them. See dyno graph printed at 14:06:31. The results of dyno run at 13:03:30 were originally displayed as HP/TQ vs. Time (non standard practice). A dyno run from later is displayed with HP/TQ vs. RPM (industry standard practice). At least one of the tests is not accurate.

Furthermore, if you look at the dyno sheets that you sent, some of the HP column values vary sheet to sheet to make the wait4me numbers look even better than what they are and make the KPE look vice-versa.



Best regards,



Bob



-----Original Message-----
From: r@r.com [mailto:r@r.com]
Sent: Tuesday, July 27, 2010 1:04 PM
To: KPE Sales
Subject: Re: CTS-V Air Intake



Bob:



Attached are my Dyno results. As I stated before the tuner told me that I was the 7th person to come into his shop with the KPE CAI and the previous six CTS-Vs all had a loss of 6 horsepower and a drop in boost and torque in comparison to the stock airbox. Please review the attachment. Thank you.

R

neuronbob
07-27-10, 09:19 PM
^^^^^^Oh, snap, it's on!

No issues with my KPE so far, after a month and almost 1500 miles. I've checked the bolts a couple of times since it was installed and they don't appear loose. Just lots of great SC whine when I get into boost. :drool: (See pertinent video in my sig)

neuronbob
07-27-10, 09:19 PM
Edit: duplicate, and boy is the site SLOW tonight....

PhxTriode
07-27-10, 11:16 PM
Mathematical fact- horsepower and torque match exactly at 5252 RPM…always with no exception as it is in the mathematical formula. Any dyno graph showing horsepower and torque not matching at 5252 RPM is not accurate.


He is correct in that

rotating horsepower=(torque x rpm)/5252

Therefore

Rotating horsepower = (torque x 5252)/5252

Horsepower and torque always = @ 5252rpm

Although this is still derived from a time based calculation (Rotations Per Minute)


Question is how many of us are going to go back and look at our dyno sheets now? :D

DrumStix
07-28-10, 12:08 AM
^^^^^^Oh, snap, it's on!


:word:

lavaman
07-28-10, 08:38 AM
You may not wish to secure those screws too tight until you hear the results of the before (STOCK) and the after(KPE cai installed) dyno numbers.
My V auto is still bone stock so this should be a most interesting comparison.
You may wish to stay tuned. (no pun intended)

Please clean the MAF before the stock run. Important to keep all things equal. :stirpot:

wait4me
07-28-10, 09:19 AM
On a mustang dyno if the values dont cross over at the 5250 mark is because they dont make the numbers on the columns to the left and right match by default. If you manually set them to match before printing the sheet, then the numbers cross over like you say. It is just the mustang dyno software.

As for results of anything, i have tested 10 now, and have one more guy comming on saturday that will make 11. So far all results are the same. I havent posted anything publicly at all and have told others not to do the same...

I have been VERY fair about everything and VERY accurate on testing.. Even doing hotlaps with the stock filters and letting the aftermarket one sit over night and doing cold runs..

What i have been seeing is, a boost pressure drop when it is put on. 1psi average when clean filter. 2psi drop after 1000 miles. Then when you add more boost and rwhp gets to the 550 mark, then that amount gets larger. Intake restriction inside behind the throttlebody reports 80-84 KPA showing almost 20kpa restriction.

2 things wrong here.
1. filter surface is too small for engine. Gets dirty to quick and makes it even worse.
2. Tube diameter is smaller than stock near mass air meter causing less flow.

Again, i wasnt going to say anything at all about it. I only show what i have seen. Ive known about this stuff since it first came out, but never said anything to anyone.
In my testing here, i have used people from all over the country that come here, i use stock, and modified setups to do all the testing.. I do everything right in front of them, and have nothing to gain from any results as im not selling them anything at all or even offer to sell them a replacement... As those people would agree.

lavaman
07-28-10, 09:52 AM
On a mustang dyno if the values dont cross over at the 5250 mark is because they dont make the numbers on the columns to the left and right match by default. If you manually set them to match before printing the sheet, then the numbers cross over like you say. It is just the mustang dyno software.

As for results of anything, i have tested 10 now, and have one more guy comming on saturday that will make 11. So far all results are the same. I havent posted anything publicly at all and have told others not to do the same...

I have been VERY fair about everything and VERY accurate on testing.. Even doing hotlaps with the stock filters and letting the aftermarket one sit over night and doing cold runs..

What i have been seeing is, a boost pressure drop when it is put on. 1psi average when clean filter. 2psi drop after 1000 miles. Then when you add more boost and rwhp gets to the 550 mark, then that amount gets larger. Intake restriction inside behind the throttlebody reports 80-84 KPA showing almost 20kpa restriction.

2 things wrong here.
1. filter surface is too small for engine. Gets dirty to quick and makes it even worse.
2. Tube diameter is smaller than stock near mass air meter causing less flow.

Again, i wasnt going to say anything at all about it. I only show what i have seen. Ive known about this stuff since it first came out, but never said anything to anyone.
In my testing here, i have used people from all over the country that come here, i use stock, and modified setups to do all the testing.. I do everything right in front of them, and have nothing to gain from any results as im not selling them anything at all or even offer to sell them a replacement... As those people would agree.


Jesse,

I want to set up a time to dyno my car at your place and have you make sure everything is as good as it can be with my mods & tune. I just need from you the tunes for my latest mod and the B & B exhaust. I know you said you sent the tunes but my G-Mail apparently didn't like it. I have a Yahoo account in place since Monday but still no tunes.

After the exhaust arrives I'll call to arrange dyno time.

Doug

CTSV4now
07-28-10, 10:47 AM
I am late to this discussion, but are we saying on a stock tuned vehicle the KPE intake performs worse than stock intake? What about using the max-performance handheld tune? Same results?

PhxTriode
07-28-10, 11:46 AM
On a mustang dyno if the values dont cross over at the 5250 mark is because they dont make the numbers on the columns to the left and right match by default. If you manually set them to match before printing the sheet, then the numbers cross over like you say. It is just the mustang dyno software.

As for results of anything, i have tested 10 now, and have one more guy comming on saturday that will make 11. So far all results are the same. I havent posted anything publicly at all and have told others not to do the same...

I have been VERY fair about everything and VERY accurate on testing.. Even doing hotlaps with the stock filters and letting the aftermarket one sit over night and doing cold runs..

What i have been seeing is, a boost pressure drop when it is put on. 1psi average when clean filter. 2psi drop after 1000 miles. Then when you add more boost and rwhp gets to the 550 mark, then that amount gets larger. Intake restriction inside behind the throttlebody reports 80-84 KPA showing almost 20kpa restriction.

2 things wrong here.
1. filter surface is too small for engine. Gets dirty to quick and makes it even worse.
2. Tube diameter is smaller than stock near mass air meter causing less flow.

Again, i wasnt going to say anything at all about it. I only show what i have seen. Ive known about this stuff since it first came out, but never said anything to anyone.
In my testing here, i have used people from all over the country that come here, i use stock, and modified setups to do all the testing.. I do everything right in front of them, and have nothing to gain from any results as im not selling them anything at all or even offer to sell them a replacement... As those people would agree.

Jesse,

Thanks for reporting the actual values you found for the restriction. Do you have the other values you mentioned as a comparison?

Where you have noticed the 1-2psi drop interests me. Whit your 9.5" pulley, KPE and stock exhaust on the dyno reported 13.47psi at its peak. Are you saying I should have expected 14.5-15.5 psi at the MAP where the reading was taken??

Thanks in advance

Razorecko
07-28-10, 12:09 PM
lets say you lose 10hp and 1psi of boost. And that 1psi of boost is generally worth 20hp. Aren't you actually than helping the supercharger breathe better for a slight loss in power ? You can than add another mod to up that 1psi, make the 20hp and in the end make 30hp instead of 20hp...kinda hard to explain

PhxTriode
07-28-10, 12:54 PM
lets say you lose 10hp and 1psi of boost. And that 1psi of boost is generally worth 20hp. Aren't you actually than helping the supercharger breathe better for a slight loss in power ? You can than add another mod to up that 1psi, make the 20hp and in the end make 30hp instead of 20hp...kinda hard to explain

Good point, but there aren't too many mods to get the 1-2psi back or 20-30hp gain that are in the same price point of just replacing the CAI.

Umrswimr
07-28-10, 01:22 PM
Does anyone have pictures of this restriction in the KPE intake?

When I was installing it, the filter looked to be pretty bloody large. Is the stock filter really larger?

wait4me
07-28-10, 01:42 PM
Guys i dont want to be in the middle of this. Hence why i didnt bring it up on the forums.

The only reason why i posted was because they said my "Dyno" sheets where done to minipulate results on thier product.. Which is not even close to the truth.........

hp by time, mph , or rpm all show the same values just with a different bottom scale.


As for the thing on the lower boost levels, On the intake side that is bad. It means it is starving for airflow.

If on the exhaust side a mod is done and boost drops, then it is a good thing.

PhxTriode
07-28-10, 01:46 PM
^I respect that^

Razorecko
07-28-10, 02:03 PM
Hey Jesse, did any of these cars have the brake duct pulled out ? When i had my new era intake i could tell it felt like it was starving for air. Thats when i came up with the notion to pull out that brake cooling duct and felt instantly that the intake was taking in much more air

neuronbob
07-28-10, 02:04 PM
+1 on Phx's post.

baabootoo
07-28-10, 02:26 PM
Well, I scheduled a dyno check for Monday, and I'll leave mine on until after the test. I'll use the other's baselines for stock engines to see what mine does with it on. I WILL turn the Stabilitrak all the way off too!!!! :)

wait4me
07-28-10, 02:34 PM
Bab, If you test with a new filter it will be more accurate gains.

backup
07-28-10, 02:36 PM
Very interesting. But I love the sound from the KPE! I just don't want to lose power either. Hmm, I wonder if closing or blocking the sound dampening tubes on the OEM intake would let the supercharger noise come through as much as the KPE? That combined with modifying the bottom of the stock air filter box might be a good compromise.

asabase
07-28-10, 02:43 PM
300C guys did the blocking trick. They claimed it increased hp. I believe it just let the intake noise out.

neuronbob
07-28-10, 02:46 PM
Wondering if there is a way to fit a larger filter to the Airaid/KPE intake. Now that we have more data on this potential structural issue, has anyone given more thought to that?

PhxTriode
07-28-10, 02:49 PM
Wondering if there is a way to fit a larger filter to the Airaid/KPE intake. Now that we have more data on this potential structural issue, has anyone given more thought to that?

searching now:D

readyact
07-28-10, 02:49 PM
Guys i dont want to be in the middle of this. Hence why i didnt bring it up on the forums.
the exhaust side a mod is done and boost drops, then it is a good thing.

Jesse:

As you may guess I am the infamous “R” to which KPE is referring. I privately sent KPE/Airaid an email containing my Dyno results as test by you. I informed KPE/Airaid that the car actually lost power, boost and toque in comparison to the stock air box. I too was not trying to start a firestorm by posting anything publicly that is exactly why I sent an email directly to KPE/Airaid seeking a response, which I received and had no intentions on making it public. I had not discussed any results with any fellow KPE/Airaid CAI owners and wanted to hear directly from the source. I was told by KPE I am the first to notify them of such an issue, thus I have no idea why the response I was sent was placed on a public forum. In fact I asked KPE for proof that their CAI produced power gains, but I only received an explanation of Dyno testing.

Once again I was not attempting to start a fire, but I wanted an explanation as to why their site would state a 30 HP gain on a stock tune, but when tested their CAI actually performs worst than the stock air box (my results ONLY). There is a simple solution to this issue since so many of us across the nation have the KPE CAI. If you have before modification Dyno numbers please review them. For those that are about to Dyno if possible please Dyno with the stock air box first and then Dyno the KPE CAI and review the numbers.


As a side note the KPE cat-back exhaust system posted gains over the stock system and is awesome as it has really opened up over time (see I can end on a positive note).

KPE
07-28-10, 04:49 PM
Bab, If you test with a new filter it will be more accurate gains.

Jesse,

Since we are both using a Mustang Dyno and are getting different numbers, we believe that at this point an independent dyno test is in order. Good Speed Performance Lab with a Maha Dyno will be conducting this test. We are now looking for a completely stock CTS-V to run on the dyno to compare apples to apples. To learn more about the Maha Dyno visit:

http://www.goodspeedperformance.com/dyno.php


Test results will be posted on the forum.



Best regards,


Bob

GMX322V S/C
07-28-10, 06:09 PM
Very interesting. But I love the sound from the KPE! I just don't want to lose power either. Hmm, I wonder if closing or blocking the sound dampening tubes on the OEM intake would let the supercharger noise come through as much as the KPE? That combined with modifying the bottom of the stock air filter box might be a good compromise.

The LPE solid intake tube with a modded stock airbox works really well and sounds great.

newcadman
07-28-10, 06:12 PM
Whereas the "independent testing" is a good idea I will be conducting my own "independent" testing on Friday with my bone stock V using the exact same dyno (dynojet) that gave me my bone stock numbers.
The ONLY difference this time will be the installation of the KPE cai.
And yes the MAF has been cleaned. And yes the battery was disconnected. And yes the car has at least 50 miles on it since the install. And yes the same octane fuel is in the tank.
Any other suggestions prior to Friday's test?

lawnstripes
07-28-10, 06:14 PM
again very interesting info...... if we dyno again i will do back to back runs

my first dyno after doing all mods wasn't/couldnt be right with a showing of 433 @ wheel (with stability control all off)

Razorecko
07-28-10, 06:22 PM
Whereas the "independent testing" is a good idea I will be conducting my own "independent" testing on Friday with my bone stock V using the exact same dyno (dynojet) that gave me my bone stock numbers.
The ONLY difference this time will be the installation of the KPE cai.
And yes the MAF has been cleaned. And yes the battery was disconnected. And yes the car has at least 50 miles on it since the install. And yes the same octane fuel is in the tank.
Any other suggestions prior to Friday's test?

YES !, weather ! Make sure its around the same temp and isn't run hot before the dyno pull

KPE
07-28-10, 06:26 PM
Whereas the "independent testing" is a good idea I will be conducting my own "independent" testing on Friday with my bone stock V using the exact same dyno (dynojet) that gave me my bone stock numbers.
The ONLY difference this time will be the installation of the KPE cai.
And yes the MAF has been cleaned. And yes the battery was disconnected. And yes the car has at least 50 miles on it since the install. And yes the same octane fuel is in the tank.
Any other suggestions prior to Friday's test?

No suggestions G, thank you for taking the time to do this test.

baabootoo
07-29-10, 01:44 AM
Is there a simple place to hook a pressure gauge to so I can see the boost? Or isn't it as easy as a vacuum gauge?

Umrswimr
07-29-10, 08:23 AM
Jesse,

Since we are both using a Mustang Dyno and are getting different numbers, we believe that at this point an independent dyno test is in order. Good Speed Performance Lab with a Maha Dyno will be conducting this test. We are now looking for a completely stock CTS-V to run on the dyno to compare apples to apples. To learn more about the Maha Dyno visit:

http://www.goodspeedperformance.com/dyno.php


Test results will be posted on the forum.



Best regards,


Bob
Be sure to dyno the car at around the same time of day. It gets pretty bloody hot out there in Phoenix. :) I'd hate to see you go to the effort to perform the test and have the results be ambiguous because of a large ambient temperature difference. Please keep us informed.

Kudos to you guys for stepping up and responding.

aburd
07-30-10, 10:17 AM
Bump

SleepTight
07-31-10, 09:49 AM
Bumpety-bump.

DrumStix
07-31-10, 12:41 PM
Jesse is taking the right approach. You need to measure the kpa that the MAF is seeing in order to scientifically gauge the airflow and what the ECU needs to respond to.

We just pulled one off today and added a stock cut airbox with a K&N drop in. Report coming later today if the person wants to chime in. I personally think the filter is large enough in pure size, just not sure if it allows adequate CFM due to the gauze used. As with other CAI's, best results were had by cutting the brake duct a bit and allowing more air into the fender and thus, the filter. There's just not much area for the increased filter surface area to draw air down in the fender well. Jesse, have you tried this? I think there could be some gain there and I believe you tested this with your air filter intake element.

TMC CL65
07-31-10, 12:47 PM
Anyone know the dimensions of the KPE filter or have an un-installed one handy to measure? I just measured and calculated the stock filter size. The total surface area on the stock filter is 60.9375". I think theoretically the KPE(Airaid) filter provides much more surface area. I have also looked at the stock airbox and the opening for the air inlet seems to be pretty small. I can see where there may be a slight restriction in the post flange area of the KPE kit. But I don't think the filter itself is an issue compared to the stock airbox.

Tom

DrumStix
07-31-10, 12:47 PM
Hey Jesse, did any of these cars have the brake duct pulled out ? When i had my new era intake i could tell it felt like it was starving for air. Thats when i came up with the notion to pull out that brake cooling duct and felt instantly that the intake was taking in much more air

Exactly. The one I'm using did the same thing as well and I think it's the crux of the issue here, or at least a large contributor.

baabootoo
07-31-10, 01:49 PM
Anyone know the dimensions of the KPE filter or have an un-installed one handy to measure? I just measured and calculated the stock filter size. The total surface area on the stock filter is 60.9375". I think theoretically the KPE(Airaid) filter provides much more surface area. I have also looked at the stock airbox and the opening for the air inlet seems to be pretty small. I can see where there may be a slight restriction in the post flange area of the KPE kit. But I don't think the filter itself is an issue compared to the stock airbox.

Tom

I measured it about 4" diameter at top, 7" bottom, and 7" long. If I did my math right, CONSERVATIVELY we're looking at 115 sq. inches then. It could very well be almost double the stocker then. Secondly, there's a lot of holes under the splitter that allows air into this zone. Not to mention some healthy gaps at the fender where the gasket wouldn't seal closely. I see no reason why this would be starved for air from this fender area then.

backup
07-31-10, 02:10 PM
I'm watching this thread closely, hoping some data from some controlled dyno runs will answer this question. But as a non-scientific experiment I removed the top from the KPE filter housing and went for a test drive. My butt dyno said it was improved. The boost gauge would move byond the third hash, and I could overboost to the fourth hash on no lift shifts. It felt better, and sounded better too, so I am going to leave the top off, pending more data. It seems counter intuitive since the air being drawn in from the top would presumably be heated from the engine compartment, but who knows, maybe the filter is air starved from below? Could be placebo effect as well.

We all know this car is senstitive to air temp. Driving in hot slow traffic makes the car feel substantially less responsive, whether with the stock intake or KPE. In fact, the KPE feels worse to me when heat soaked in traffic than the stock intake. When moving though and cooler ambient air is being pushed into the engine compartment, maybe this is where the KPE would have an advantage. If so this would not be reflected on a static dyno test.

BtwoG
07-31-10, 02:19 PM
Anyone know the dimensions of the KPE filter or have an un-installed one handy to measure?
Tom

It was hard to measure installed, but I am getting about 145 sq in. The measurements I got were assuming a truncated cone with R=3.25" r=1.75" and a slant height of 6.5"

snzuloz
07-31-10, 02:19 PM
I'm watching this thread closely, hoping some data from some controlled dyno runs will answer this question. But as a non-scientific experiment I removed the top from the KPE filter housing and went for a test drive. My butt dyno said it was improved. The boost gauge would move byond the third hash, and I could overboost to the fourth hash on no lift shifts. It felt better, and sounded better too, so I am going to leave the top off, pending more data. It seems counter intuitive since the air being drawn in from the top would presumably be heated from the engine compartment, but who knows, maybe the filter is air starved from below? Could be placebo effect as well.

We all know this car is senstitive to air temp. Driving in hot slow traffic makes the car feel substantially less responsive, whether with the stock intake or KPE. In fact, the KPE feels worse to me when heat soaked in traffic than the stock intake. When moving though and cooler ambient air is being pushed into the engine compartment, maybe this is where the KPE would have an advantage. If so this would not be reflected on a static dyno test.

Interesting findings, going to have to try this on mine now. Wondering if the air is being pushed thru the engine compartment with speed anyways, do you think that you will even see much of this heated air in that filter location? Going to take my system apart and see what else could be done to get supply of fresh air...

TMC CL65
07-31-10, 02:23 PM
I like the idea of removing the KPE lid. Maybe the air will actually flow better. I am not an engineer...and didn't stay at a Holiday Inn...but maybe removing the top can release some air pressure built up in the fender area.

Tom

Mike 09 V
07-31-10, 04:42 PM
I think a real measurement would have to take into account all the ridges and valleys of the filter. This would increase the surface area immensely. Also we are restricted by the size of the inlet pipe to the throttle. I don't know the exact size but it can't be more than 12 sq.inches So not counting the ridges and valleys, the stock filter has at least 5 times the surface area of the inlet, and likely much more. At full throttle all the air drawn by the engine (about 11 cu.ft/sec. I think?) would have to go through both the filter and the pipe. Theoretically, if the filter offered no resistance then it wouldn't have to be any bigger than the pipe. But it does by its nature resist flow. Once the filter is large enough to handle the air flow, no matter how much bigger you make it it won't matter much I think. But when the filter starts to pick up dirt , causing restriction, then the air flow is affected and size would matter in this instance. So we would have to see manufacturer's flow charts to see how much air these filters can pass at a given velocity. Keeping the air filter clean is a must it seems to me. Interesting subject.

KPE
07-31-10, 07:55 PM
As many of you know, KPE decided to conduct its own independent dyno testing on the Cold Air Intake for the CTS-V 2009+. We contracted the services of Goodspeed Performance in Scottsdale, AZ (www.goodspeedperformance.com (http://www.goodspeedperformance.com/)) who use a Maha LPS 3000 AWD Dyno (http://www.goodspeedperformance.com/dyno.php), which is by far the most advanced dyno we’ve seen or used. A couple important features: it CANNOT be manipulated in any way to affect results, it measures boost pressure, engine temperature and features a full ambient temperature station (which it displays on the dyno results).

Instead of using our car, we grabbed a used 2010 CTS-V straight off the lot from our local Cadillac Dealer with 7980 miles which was bone stock. They did 3 baseline runs and we took the average of 3 runs (480 hp). We then installed the KPE intake, and they ran the car again on the dyno. They ended up doing about 7 runs total. The first runs made some power, but they commented that they could tell the car was learning the new airflows and wanted to keep doing more runs. After the 3rd run the curve smoothed out as the car learned the airflows. They ensured the engine temp was consistent on all runs and they took the average of the three runs which proved an 11 hp increase. They did have a run that showed +20 but the average at full temperature was +11.

A few remarks:

· Intake temp was lowered by 10 deg. (which is shown on the graph) After the installation of the KPE intake even though ambient temperature increased
· The humidity was almost 40% with an ambient temperature of 98.6 deg (humidity will displace Oxygen)(not ideal conditions for making power).
· There was no boost pressure drop (shown on graph)with the installation of the KPE intake, and if anything it slightly increased
· These engines make maximum hp at the redline, if they are not run on a dyno right to the red, they will not show the maximum power output.

KPE CAI Dyno Run:

http://marycaroline.com/cai/stock_dyno.JPG

Stock Air Box Baseline Run:

http://marycaroline.com/cai/intake_dyno.JPG

Dyno Pictures:

http://marycaroline.com/cai/1.JPG

http://marycaroline.com/cai/2.JPG

http://marycaroline.com/cai/3.JPG

http://marycaroline.com/cai/4.JPG

http://marycaroline.com/cai/5.JPG

http://marycaroline.com/cai/7.JPG

DrumStix
07-31-10, 08:20 PM
What in THE HELL are those cadi logos doing on the B pillar?

KPE
07-31-10, 08:22 PM
LOL! I asked the same thing! It also had colored LED lighting in the grill!

neuronbob
07-31-10, 08:37 PM
What in THE HELL are those cadi logos doing on the B pillar?

You mean the C pillar, and I asked the same thing! Ewwwww that is tacky! Luckily, those come off easily.

Thanks for the results.

Just Enough
07-31-10, 08:55 PM
I took some measurements on the stock and Airaid units. Stock intake pipe 3.75 inches ID through to the throttle, 11 square inches of area. Airaid intake pipe slightly past the MAF necks to 3.4 x 3.8 oval so I averaged it at 3.6 inches ID = 10.2 square inches of area. I made up a new intake tube using 4 inch aluminum .06 wall tubing and welded in a block for the MAF (3.875 inches ID 11.8 square inches), used 4 inch ID silicone elbow for connection to the throttle, I also opened up the bell mouth where the filter mounts onto the airbox to 3.9 inch ID. I calculated the filter areas the best I could, stock 60 to 65 square inches, Airaid 105 to 110 square inches. It is tough to compare filters because of the depth of pleats but stock GM filters always seem over pleated to me in that they are too dense with paper, anyway if you replaced the stocker with a K&N the area number would be more comparable. The Airaid almost doubles the stock filter area. The comparison math is that the Airaid MAF pipe is down 7% on area compared to stock, the 3.875 ID aluminum MAF pipe is up 6% from stock and 13% bigger than the Airaid. Seat of the pants feelings were that the car lost some pull with the Airaid in un-modified form compared to the stock setup. With the 4 inch aluminum MAF mount, opened up bell and 4 inch silicone elbow the car seemed to have more pull the stock AC and the Airaid stock. Don't consider my butt calibrated. I paid for my Airaid and felt a loss which led me to the modification I described. It is unfortunate that the Airaid MAF pipe is undersized from stock and the filter mount bell is restricted because it is really a very nicely executed product which installs easily and looks terrific under the hood.

http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i311/Stoichiometric/Lightning/IMG_3310.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i311/Stoichiometric/Lightning/IMG_3312.jpg
http://i75.photobucket.com/albums/i311/Stoichiometric/Lightning/IMG_3311.jpg

Gary Wells
07-31-10, 09:31 PM
Bob:
Not trying to be be judgmental here, but on the comparison chart which shows what I think are the two averages plotted, it appears that the KPE unit makes less power below 4K. Can you share the 3 individual RWHP & RWTQ #'s?
Thanks for sharing this info with us. I am sure that this info will remove any doubt from those that thought that this unit did not make any power.

newcadman
07-31-10, 09:53 PM
Whereas the "independent testing" is a good idea I will be conducting my own "independent" testing on Friday with my bone stock V using the exact same dyno (dynojet) that gave me my bone stock numbers.
The ONLY difference this time will be the installation of the KPE cai.
And yes the MAF has been cleaned. And yes the battery was disconnected. And yes the car has at least 50 miles on it since the install. And yes the same octane fuel is in the tank.
Any other suggestions prior to Friday's test?

As indicated I took my 2009 V auto V (7000 miles) to the same (dynojet) dyno where it was previously tested when it was bone stock.
The car sat with hood up and upper shroud cover was removed to assist cooling for approx. an hour and fifteen minutes before it was put on the rollers. At this point the shop's large cooling fan was allowed to blow on the front of the car for approx. 20 minutes before any testing began.
Three pulls were made with the now installed KPE cai.
End result, the engine made 8 MORE rwhp on its best pull than it did on its previous best bone stock pull.
The ambient air temp was 18 degrees higher than when it was dynoed bone stock and the humidity was also a little more than double what it was when dynoed bone stock (too bad the shop wasn't air conditioned and/or we can't control mother nature's temperature conditions). FYI there was approx. 20 minutes of the shop cooling fan blowing on the front of the car between pulls.
Don't know if any of this helps, but that's what was observed.

DrumStix
07-31-10, 10:06 PM
You mean the C pillar, and I asked the same thing! Ewwwww that is tacky! Luckily, those come off easily.

Thanks for the results.

On a sedan, yes. **** it.

DrumStix
07-31-10, 10:07 PM
LOL! I asked the same thing! It also had colored LED lighting in the grill!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ox1Tore9nw

Made me pull it out again.

trans_lux
07-31-10, 11:02 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Ox1Tore9nw

Made me pull it out again.

A much better rendition -NSFW or easily offended
http://www.southparkstudios.com/clips/103740

DrumStix
07-31-10, 11:36 PM
http://mybroadband.co.za/photos/data/500/derail.jpg

baabootoo
08-01-10, 12:17 AM
Since I'll be testing at 5??', and using 93 octane, maybe I'll even get a few more then!

MSJ
08-01-10, 12:17 AM
Bob, The stock baseline run shows A/F ratio and boost. Can you post your "after" dyno sheet with the A/F ratio and boost as well? It doesn't seem to be on the "after" results. Also, as Gary requested may we see the numbers for each of the runs? I sent you a PM on 7/30, but have not heard back. If you could respond when you get a chance it would be greatly appreciated or let me know if you did not receive it.

thanks, mike

wait4me
08-01-10, 10:38 AM
The key here is using a new stock filter in the setup, vs a new stock filter of the airraid... Using a stock filter that has miles on it is not a fair comparison. All our independant tests are using stock new vs new. Also cleaning the mass air meter in between tests. Just to make sure no oil contamination occurs when using the oiled filter.

KPE
08-01-10, 12:18 PM
Bob, The stock baseline run shows A/F ratio and boost. Can you post your "after" dyno sheet with the A/F ratio and boost as well? It doesn't seem to be on the "after" results. Also, as Gary requested may we see the numbers for each of the runs? I sent you a PM on 7/30, but have not heard back. If you could respond when you get a chance it would be greatly appreciated or let me know if you did not receive it.

thanks, mike

Hi Mike,

I just replied to your PM


Best regards,


Bob

snzuloz
08-01-10, 03:18 PM
Bob, The stock baseline run shows A/F ratio and boost. Can you post your "after" dyno sheet with the A/F ratio and boost as well? It doesn't seem to be on the "after" results. Also, as Gary requested may we see the numbers for each of the runs? I sent you a PM on 7/30, but have not heard back. If you could respond when you get a chance it would be greatly appreciated or let me know if you did not receive it.

thanks, mike


Hi Mike,

I just replied to your PM


Best regards,


Bob

Any chance of posting this info for the rest of the forum Bob, thanks Troy.

KPE
08-01-10, 03:37 PM
Any chance of posting this info for the rest of the forum Bob, thanks Troy.

We will contact Good Speed tomorrow to see if they have it. I have posted everything that was emailed to me so far.

wait4me
08-01-10, 10:32 PM
One other thing they should have done is brought the dyno runs all the way up to at least a shift. The redline is 6200 on a stock engine with stock tune. At least drag it up to 6000.

We just tested number 11 with the same odd results..... spending 2 hours of dyno time trying every little possibility....

KPE
08-02-10, 02:43 PM
Here is another Dyno Sheet. Good Speed is working on sending us the others.

http://marycaroline.com/cai/dyno3.JPG

TMC CL65
08-02-10, 03:52 PM
Interesting to note that the stock air box IATs are running 54.7 degs warmer over the ambient temp (149.0 - 94.3). The KPE CAI IATs are running 39.6 deg warmer over the ambient temp (138.2 - 98.6). Obviously, there can be a number of variables impacting those #'s...but I thought that was interesting nonetheless.

Tom

baabootoo
08-02-10, 04:46 PM
I had mine done today, it was 478/463, and still climbing until the rev limiter hit in 4th. All that was done to mine was the KPE intake. The A/F was near 11, and the dyno guy said it was plenty rich too. I couldn't figure how to post it, since you need a Dynojet reader. I will send it to KPE for further analysis. The air filter is a few miles old, and the boost still went up to 9 on my gauge. That is what I saw on a road course last month with the stock intake/filter and 8000 miles on it.

TMC CL65
08-02-10, 05:14 PM
I had mine done today, it was 478/463, and still climbing until the rev limiter hit in 4th. All that was done to mine was the KPE intake. The A/F was near 11, and the dyno guy said it was plenty rich too. I couldn't figure how to post it, since you need a Dynojet reader. I will send it to KPE for further analysis. The air filter is a few miles old, and the boost still went up to 9 on my gauge. That is what I saw on a road course last month with the stock intake/filter and 8000 miles on it.

What was your stock baseline?

Tom

baabootoo
08-02-10, 05:42 PM
Nah, never had one. I'm going out west to run it hard, so wanted to make sure I wasn't too lean for now.