: GM ! Manual V owner recommendation...



Razorecko
07-25-10, 06:34 PM
K, guys heres the deal. As a manual V owner the electronic parking break needs to be either tossed out or tweaked. I was at a gas station and i flicked the switch and went to the pump. Right as I turn around what do i see as my v slowly starts to roll. I jump in and break and find out that the parking break didnt connect. Thats the issue, unlike the auto V we don't have a "P" so you guys need to maybe make the v do a slight "beep" noise to verify that the parking break is down. Not all of us will always wait a few seconds for it to pop up on the screen. Not only that but another question is what happens after 80-90k miles and if there is an issue with the parking break line ?? What if the odo says the parking brake is up and you leave the car only to come back to it later down the street...

JFJr
07-25-10, 07:47 PM
Yeah, and while the concept is not bad, saving a little weight, etc., and has kept me out of a gravel road ditch, while turning around in a narrow driveway, I would welcome the old manual lever at the right-hand side of the console (and not the foot pedal), so we don't have to continually educate parking valets or others that are not familiar with its operation. Maybe we're just "running against the wind," but the audible beep is a great idea going forward.

Jud

commander112
07-25-10, 07:47 PM
I'm sorry, I fail to understand your issue with the parking brake. From what I understand of your post, you hit the switch and it did not catch and you failed to notice that the display did not show that it did not activate. You then got out and the car rolled and you are blaming the system for your failure to verify that it was not set? That is my understanding of what you are saying. How about taking responsibility for not setting the parking brake in the first place? If you had a car with a parking brake lever and pulled it up but not far enough for it to set is it your fault or the systems? Furthermore, you refer to the issue of what happens down the road when the system falls out of adjustment, well my understanding of the automatic parking brake is that it self adjusts up until it can no further adjust at which point I'm sure the DIC will tell you to service the parking brake. This is really not much different than a manual parking brake lever where the higher you pull the lever the more the brake will grip up until it won't grip. However you will get no warning for it not gripping with a lever activated system. I'm sorry, we are now living in a world where it is always someone else's responsibility for our actions or failure to act. The system in your CTS-V is more advanced than an old style parking brake and will work up until it won't work as long as YOU SET IT! Simple as that. I fly airplanes and my actions directly affect that safety of every flight. I make sure that the aircraft is maintained and that everything is working properly before and during every flight and if something is not right I have the responsibility to calculate how much that affects my personal safety. YOU are the operator of the car and have to take on a level of responsibility to activate a switch that applies a perfectly working system to apply the parking brake or you need to leave the car in gear. It is your responsibility! Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you but I fail to see the real issue here. Old style or new style parking brake you need to apply it and confirm it is working prior to exiting the vehicle.

shchow
07-25-10, 07:53 PM
There is a "Brake" light in the center of the dash that lights up.
You mean the manual V's don't have that display?

Razorecko
07-25-10, 08:00 PM
There is a "Brake" light in the center of the dash that lights up.
You mean the manual V's don't have that display?

they do but do you look at the guage to see if it goes on everytime you use it ?

commander112
07-25-10, 08:00 PM
There is a "Brake" light in the center of the dash that lights up.
You mean the manual V's don't have that display?

They do. That is why I fail to understand the original poster's issue.

commander112
07-25-10, 08:02 PM
they do but do you look at the guage to see if it goes on everytime you use it ?

Yes. That is why there is a light there.

Razorecko
07-25-10, 08:06 PM
I'm sorry, I fail to understand your issue with the parking brake. From what I understand of your post, you hit the switch and it did not catch and you failed to notice that the display did not show that it did not activate. You then got out and the car rolled and you are blaming the system for your failure to verify that it was not set? That is my understanding of what you are saying. How about taking responsibility for not setting the parking brake in the first place? If you had a car with a parking brake lever and pulled it up but not far enough for it to set is it your fault or the systems? Furthermore, you refer to the issue of what happens down the road when the system falls out of adjustment, well my understanding of the automatic parking brake is that it self adjusts up until it can no further adjust at which point I'm sure the DIC will tell you to service the parking brake. This is really not much different than a manual parking brake lever where the higher you pull the lever the more the brake will grip up until it won't grip. However you will get no warning for it not gripping with a lever activated system. I'm sorry, we are now living in a world where it is always someone else's responsibility for our actions or failure to act. The system in your CTS-V is more advanced than an old style parking brake and will work up until it won't work as long as YOU SET IT! Simple as that. I fly airplanes and my actions directly affect that safety of every flight. I make sure that the aircraft is maintained and that everything is working properly before and during every flight and if something is not right I have the responsibility to calculate how much that affects my personal safety. YOU are the operator of the car and have to take on a level of responsibility to activate a switch that applies a perfectly working system to apply the parking brake or you need to leave the car in gear. It is your responsibility! Sorry, I don't mean to pick on you but I fail to see the real issue here. Old style or new style parking brake you need to apply it and confirm it is working prior to exiting the vehicle.

Sounds like someone is having a bad day. My basic statement is that as manual owners we rely on the parking brake ALOT more than an automatic owner does. GM should make note of that and in additon maybe put it in the setting menu to turn on a "beep" noise as the brake activates. Yea of course its my fault for not sitting there for 3 seconds as it lights up on my guage. With a manual lever I never had this problem and it only took me a split second. BUT this is something that will happen on occasion with this type of system and i'm just trying to make that a point. Because we are manual owners we should get a little more response from this awkward system of braking....Now imagine if you have to take your car into service or have someone deal with it thats not used to the guage response...lets say like valet and they are in a rush and you come back to find your car rolled into a bentley ?

4gear70
07-25-10, 08:58 PM
I always have a habbit of leaving my manual cars in gear when parked. First I engage the park brake and then throw it in gear as a backup should the park brake fail.

thebigjimsho
07-25-10, 09:32 PM
they do but do you look at the guage to see if it goes on everytime you use it ?
Yep, I do. And if I have have any doubts, I leave it in reverse.

Razorecko
07-25-10, 09:34 PM
I still feel this will happen more than people think. Not many people will jump online and complain if they rolled their car into their house =)

thebigjimsho
07-25-10, 09:39 PM
I still feel this will happen more than people think. Not many people will jump online and complain if they rolled their car into their house =)
This is a change your habit issue. I think Cadillac is fine...

Razorecko
07-25-10, 09:42 PM
Oh its a mistake that won't happen again. Sigh, I do miss the ole' handbrake.

commander112
07-25-10, 10:01 PM
The old hand brake was an advance over the older foot brake and electronic brake is an advance over both as long as you set it.

Razorecko
07-25-10, 10:04 PM
The old hand brake was an advance over the older foot brake and electronic brake is an advance over both as long as you set it.

Not necessarily true. Hand brake's were always more dominating in the sports car market as it offered more control of the vehicle. A brand new lexus doesnt have a hand brake...Yet my old '93 mr2 turbo did.

CTS NV
07-25-10, 11:11 PM
I agree that sometimes it doesn't catch, so I usually wait to see if the light goes on, listen for the brake being applied and always leave the car in 1st gear.

For an electronic parking brake, it should catch every time you pull on it (whether you pull quickly or more deliberately). My guess is the switch has a lot of travel and does not activate until you pull the entire way -- I'm not sure what the benefit of that is.

GMX322V S/C
07-26-10, 12:12 AM
I always leave manuals in 1st and set the parking brake when I stop. Force of habit since I was 16 years old. Doesn't everyone do this? If not, why not? Just curious...

NiceRide
07-26-10, 12:15 AM
I'm with Razorecko on this one, handbrakes preferred. I must admit though, I've had another car roll in neutral after failing to pull the handbrake all the way.

Dick's06Vee
07-26-10, 06:46 AM
Ditto that GMX! I hardly ever use my emergency brake when parking my manuals over the past 47 years. Always leave them in gear though. So, is it give me a break or give me a brake??? For some that's confusing, but for the life of me, I don't understand why!

RB190
07-26-10, 07:09 AM
I have never liked the Electronic EB from the day I drove the car off the lot. I have always left my manual cars in first gear. I don't understand how anyone would get out of their car and leave it in neutral with the brake off.

RB

OldRoadDawg
07-26-10, 09:10 AM
These cars have a parking brake!? :eek:
I'll have to check that out.

Haven't used a parking brake on any of my vehicles, manual or auto, for.... decades(?).

Umrswimr
07-26-10, 09:34 AM
Yes. That is why there is a light there.
Yep. I look every time.

translux
07-26-10, 09:43 AM
Razorecko I'm with you on this one just give us a hand break

Kadonny
07-26-10, 09:47 AM
Me too, from the very first day I learned to drive a manual transmission, I ALWAYS put it in first gear before I get out, parking brake or no parking brake.

To the OP. If you are going to strictly rely on the parking brake to hold your car, I suggest you make sure first that it is set properly. If you use it correctly, the parking brake sets just fine.

mbshoe
07-26-10, 11:21 AM
I'm with razor. Why doesn't the brake engage when I lift the button and release? Why do I have to lift and hold? Yes to all the helpful folks pointing out the light, but you're missing the point. Why can't I just lift like a traditional handbrake? It has positive, immediate physical feedback and doesn't require that I pause, wait for some light, and then continue my shutdown/exit procedures.

shchow
07-26-10, 11:28 AM
If given a choice, I would also prefer the manual hand brake.
I miss doing power slides ;)

Hawkeye2
07-26-10, 11:52 AM
Old habits - engine off, shift to reverse, apply brake. The whole process takes about 1.5 seconds. Just a habit. Car never rolls.

M-1028
07-26-10, 12:19 PM
I had an Camaro SS that had the e brake fail on it. My driveway has a good incline to it, so when I pulled the e brake I knew whether it would hold or not.
Well one morning I'm leaving for school, come out of the house and much to my surprise my car was parked in the neibors lawn across the street, jumped the curb and all.
The moral of the story is I always leave manual vehicles in gear.

garfin
07-26-10, 05:26 PM
The 1st vehicle with a manual transmission that I learned to drive was a 1947 International Harvester Farmall Cub - and it had a pull-up ratchet lever that actuated the emergency brake.
Fast forward to 2010 and now I gotta get used to this electric parking brake thingy... OK, not a big deal... but old habits die hard and after 5 months with the car, I'm still not completely used to it, nor am I entirely comfortable with it. (lack of tactile input, delay of engagment/disengagment and dependency on the dash light etc.)
...so the fact that I ain't comfy with the setup (but gettin' there) is precisely why I do wait for the light every time and leave it in gear. Just a habit I've gotten into over the decades of always having a manual - that being never leaving it neutral when I park it.
That being said, having a beep wouldn't hurt, and I do agree that it's a mild inconvenience explaining to others how it works.

Best regards,

Elie

StoopidSavant
07-26-10, 07:59 PM
I'm actually less concerned about whether the electronic parking brake will engage than whether it will disengage. I'd hate to be in a hurry to get somewhere (or be in the middle of nowhere) and get stranded because there's no manual override for the EPB if it fails.

Remember chrswk's unfortunate beginnings with his car?
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/191449-dic-warning-service-park-brake.html

JFJr
07-26-10, 09:17 PM
On further reflection, the elimination of the foot pedal parking brake in the V1 was huge and I'm now a fan of this newer technology. We're all guinea pigs to some extent of this system, but like most all of you have said, put the car in gear (reverse, whatever) and then set the parking brake while depressing the normal brake, before shutting down, and you should have no problems. It is an effortless "hill holder" for you SF residents.

Jud

BeagleBrains
07-26-10, 09:51 PM
I seldom use the emergency brake. It is a mechanism notorious in slippage and being out of adjustment. I owned about half-a-dozen Trans Ams. The owners manual directed that adjustment required placing the car in reverse, back up and aggressively apply the "Hand Brake" for keeping the emergency brake in adjustment. I learned that this was most effective.
Also, always driving manual shift cars (for more than 50 years), my convention was to place the car in reverse, when parking. The reverse gear is the tallest ratio of the manual transmission, therefore, the most effective positive holding device for parking.
Sorry, but I this may not be up to the St. Commander approach for addressing an idea.

zx6racer
07-27-10, 05:32 AM
I always leave manuals in 1st and set the parking brake when I stop. Force of habit since I was 16 years old. Doesn't everyone do this? If not, why not? Just curious...

Not Me Had An Acura Vigor With A Remote Start.

Teutonaddict
07-27-10, 04:11 PM
I'm with razor. Why doesn't the brake engage when I lift the button and release? Why do I have to lift and hold? Yes to all the helpful folks pointing out the light, but you're missing the point. Why can't I just lift like a traditional handbrake? It has positive, immediate physical feedback and doesn't require that I pause, wait for some light, and then continue my shutdown/exit procedures.

Okay, I'll admit it.

Day Two of Ownership: I'd driven to Houston in a driving rain to buy my '09 V2/6MT precisely 24 hours after learning that GM now was offering $5K cash back on remaining 09's AND the dealer would honor my GMS number. My brand new beast was covered in a haze from the rainy three hour drive, so I took her to my local hand-wash place. I back out of a bay to dry her off, and 'set' the e-brake....only to gently roll into the chain link fence two feet (formerly) behind my bumper. It now looks like someone took a large-bore cheese grater to my left rear bumper cover. DOH!

Completely self-inflicted, idiot move. Nobody's fault but mine. I'd driven manual tranny cars for the previous twenty years EXCEPT for the prior three-year hiatus in SUV-dom. My former habit of putting the car in 1st hadn't yet returned, and I screwed the pooch.

Even now after I've acquired the habit of properly setting the electronic brake (and have successfully used its hill-holder feature), I must agree that the feedback element of the old handbrake has not been matched. Positive. Visceral. Immediate. Audible.

FWIW, I didn't interpet that the OP was looking for somebody to blame, but rather to offer GM feedback since it's clear that they (a) continue to refine these fabulous machines, and (b) have been known to frequent these forums.

So, if you're watching, please consider how to add those feedback features to the lighter weight, electronic version of the next-gen e-brake, please!

Oh, and keep up the great work!

thatcoder
07-27-10, 05:14 PM
I always leave manuals in 1st and set the parking brake when I stop. Force of habit since I was 16 years old. Doesn't everyone do this? If not, why not? Just curious...

I own an A6 (wife didn't want to deal with an M6), but i've always parked my M's in gear. That's how I was taught. It prevents issues like this. Engaging the handbrake was always in an emergency.

BeagleBrains
07-27-10, 08:31 PM
Not Me Had An Acura Vigor With A Remote Start.
Note: CTS with Manual Transmission. Remote Start not available (idiot proof!).
Remote Start only available with the Automatic Transmission.

thebigjimsho
07-28-10, 11:04 AM
One of my early cars was an '88 Chevy Corsica LT with a 2.8 V6, 3 speed auto and a hand brake. With rear drums. :highfive:

Best revenge or wake-up moments was getting in front of someone and yanking up on the brake handle for a 1/2 second. The rear tires would lock up easily and sent 2 plumes of thick smoke out the back at highway speeds. It would scare the crap out of anyone...:bouncy:

V&Vette
07-28-10, 11:11 AM
One of my early cars was an '88 Chevy Corsica LT with a 2.8 V6, 3 speed auto and a hand brake. With rear drums. :highfive:

Best revenge or wake-up moments was getting in front of someone and yanking up on the brake handle for a 1/2 second. The rear tires would lock up easily and sent 2 plumes of thick smoke out the back at highway speeds. It would scare the crap out of anyone...:bouncy:

LoL, that didn't get you beat up a few times??

thebigjimsho
07-28-10, 12:14 PM
LoL, that didn't get you beat up a few times??
They were probably too freaked out to give chase...

FSTCADY
07-28-10, 04:31 PM
I always have a habbit of leaving my manual cars in gear when parked. First I engage the park brake and then throw it in gear as a backup should the park brake fail.

Exactly!

I would say though that the brake switch is a little rinky dink, slow to take, and only works about 80% of the time when you hit it. The problem isn't really that the car rolled away, the problem is that the switch is not really convenient to use or reliable. Not the end of the world but it could have been designed better. Everyday when I park I have to sit there for 5 seconds waiting for the damn light to come on. If you're an A-type personality (99% of V buyers) that 5 seconds is a pain.