: What I Learned at Waterford Hills...



thebigjimsho
07-25-10, 12:54 AM
Well, first off I learned that the V can't totally mask its weight...

My first session out at the little 1.5 mile Waterford Hills track. It's a tiny track on a tiny footprint with a back straight that has a sound wall that abuts a neighborhood. You can't even run until after 10:30AM.

On our first run, I pass my buddy in his 2010 SHO. He then proceeds to follow me at about 8/10ths on a track I do not know. I also forget to turn my suspension to Sport. I also run 35 cold all around which leads to 42psi hot. My front PS2s are squealing on every turn. Not fun. But, I get to put the V in 3rd and keep it there. Has enough torque to pull from slower speeds but still hit 100 on the back straight. I would lift to keep the tach near redline in 3rd for about 300 ft instead of upshifting and then downshifting.

On the 2nd run I pump up the front tires to 38 cold and get to 45 hot. Much better. But I again forget to turn the suspension to Sport. Ah well.

By the 3rd run, I'm pumped up to 46 hot and kept it there. The PS2s responded much better to this. Enough to hit 1.32<---g--->1.34 on the meter(although I take no real data from this except how hard I've been able to throw the V around).

All in all, I don't get passed all day. But I'm not a barnburner. There are some well prepped race SHOs that are tearing up the small and twisty course. Supposedly, there were a couple SHOs getting better times. But my front PS2s were wearing down to the wear bars and I took it easy the last 3 sessions and everyone took it easy as we had someone hit the concrete wall just after pit in entering the straight leading to Turn 1.

My front calipers are now a light bronze which is nice. I've actually kept my front tires around 40psi cold now and notice no discernable ride difference but a little more response at turn-in. And I've kept the rears at 35 cold. I think eventually, I'll want to get the rear wheels up front with 265s and rear coupe wheels with 305s for a well balanced increase.

Anyone echo my decisions with tire pressures at the track?

Also, still running on Hawk DTC-30s front and rear. A very good mild track pad and it works well on the street...if you don't mind a little extra dust and a lot extra squeal. although I've been working with Gary at bigbrakeparts.net and we're going to try some shims to quiet them down. I really like the pads so I'm going to work to keep them.

Also, still no diff temp issues with temps in the high 80s as we ran. So Amsoil Severe Gear still seems to be a big positive.

AND...my exhaust has really seemed to have broken in. During the day, I had a LOT of people commenting on how badass the Kooks headers/stock muffler setup sounded. I honestly couldn't tell just because the car is so quiet inside...even with the front windows down. But when I started it up the next morning, it had serious bark to it, and has ever since. So I think I've broken in the exhaust a bit. I'll have to post some video clips soon...

dvandentop
07-25-10, 01:32 AM
thought you lived in new york? what the hell you doing at waterford hills?

i will have to run my ps2 higher next time i was running them at 32 cold and got some roll over and 1.27 i think was the best on the g meter

commander112
07-25-10, 06:48 AM
The car that hit the pit road wall probably did the sin of dropping two wheels off coming off the Swamp Thing turn and then pulled the car back on to the track. When you do this you slingshot accross the track and into the wall. Happens all the time. They teach people that are new to the track to just run down the track with the two wheels off the track and to get back on as you enter turn 1. Did you find that the V was a little large and fat for Waterford Hills? I used to run a Miata out there and thought that track was perfect for that car. When a Vette would run out there I always felt it was too powerful and large for such a tight track.

garfin
07-25-10, 09:46 AM
Well, first off I learned that the V can't totally mask its weight...

My first session out at the little 1.5 mile Waterford Hills track. It's a tiny track on a tiny footprint with a back straight that has a sound wall that abuts a neighborhood. You can't even run until after 10:30AM.


On the 2nd run I pump up the front tires to 38 cold and get to 45 hot. Much better. But I again forget to turn the suspension to Sport. Ah well.

By the 3rd run, I'm pumped up to 46 hot and kept it there. The PS2s responded much better to this.

My front calipers are now a light bronze which is nice. I've actually kept my front tires around 40psi cold now and notice no discernable ride difference but a little more response at turn-in. And I've kept the rears at 35 cold. I think eventually, I'll want to get the rear wheels up front with 265s and rear coupe wheels with 305s for a well balanced increase.

Anyone echo my decisions with tire pressures at the track?



Yes... sounds very similar to my day at Mosport last month at GM Canada's "Cadillac Track Experience". Based on my experience tracking my Camaro SS at Mosport with Goodyear F1 GS-D3 street tires, I pumped up the PS2s (cold) to 46 (front) and 43 (rear) PSI in the morning, with the intent of bleeding some off as necessary. I then observed the lead instructor going around and checking everybody's tire pressures before the day began! He started to bleed off some air after checking mine and said that I didn't need such high pressures! Having never tracked the V before and with 0 experience with PS2s, I figured this wasn't the time to get into an argument. Besides, I had my own pump and was prepared to adjust pressures as needed during the day. He put them at 40 PSI all round (cold) and as much as I'm used to running 3-4 PSI less in the rears, these pressures seemed to work out quite well for me. I left them like that all day.
I was not permitted to go 10/10s that day on the longer straights, but I had no such restrictions on the twisties - and there are a couple of high speed sweepers on that course.
There was virtually no squealing from the tires at all during the day and when we were finished, there was virtually no excess wear on the tires. The little slits on the shoulders were just not as prominent as they were at the start of the day and that was with my son driving the car as well.
Now that being said, Mosport is a pretty big track and it is a high speed track that has a wonderful flow to it. High HP cars LOVE this track! As a result, it is very easy on brakes and tires, especially when compared to the 3 or 4 smaller, tighter tracks close to Toronto. I would have expected a lot more tire and brake wear if the event had been held on one of those tracks.
BTW, no brake or diff issues - just a ton of brake dust on the rears as well (for a change!)

Glad to hear you had a great day (and a safe one!).

Best regards,

Elie

thebigjimsho
07-25-10, 09:15 PM
The car that hit the pit road wall probably did the sin of dropping two wheels off coming off the Swamp Thing turn and then pulled the car back on to the track. When you do this you slingshot accross the track and into the wall. Happens all the time. They teach people that are new to the track to just run down the track with the two wheels off the track and to get back on as you enter turn 1. Did you find that the V was a little large and fat for Waterford Hills? I used to run a Miata out there and thought that track was perfect for that car. When a Vette would run out there I always felt it was too powerful and large for such a tight track.
And that is exactly what happened. I was standing and watching him from the upper deck and watched how he got faster and faster every lap. It was ashame that it was his girlfriend's car and his first track day in a RWD car. I had to run over and console her as she was about 20 ft to my left when it happened...

The V was definitely not happy on that track. The only positive was that I didn't have to shift. Being tight and narrow was not a good combination. And the curbing is tall and unusable. Also, they had an apex cone right next to the inside rumble strip at the exit of the Swamp Thing turn. It forced me to stay on-track when I think i could've carried another 4-5mph if I could have clipped that corner.

thebigjimsho
07-25-10, 09:23 PM
thought you lived in new york? what the hell you doing at waterford hills?
New York? egads, no. I'm in Massachusetts. And I was in Dearborn last week for the SHO Convention.

dvandentop
07-26-10, 12:52 AM
New York? egads, no. I'm in Massachusetts. And I was in Dearborn last week for the SHO Convention.


ahh cool i was like WTF is he tracking in MI for when he lives on east coast.

Cool, i have heard that is a pretty small track but glad you had fun

garfin
07-26-10, 08:56 AM
New York? egads, no. I'm in Massachusetts. And I was in Dearborn last week for the SHO Convention.

Cool! I still have my t-shirts from the '94 & 95 conventions in Atlanta and Dearborn!

Best regards,

Elie

Mike 09 V
07-26-10, 10:30 AM
Help me with this: Recommended tire pressures are there for a reason right? Too low inflation and the tire wears funny and too much and it wears the opposite right? So wouldn't boosting the air pressure reduce the contact patch? Some of the guys that drag the cars REDUCE pressure for more traction. So what am I missing here?

commander112
07-26-10, 10:46 AM
Here you go Mike. The drag guys want a greater contact patch. Less air flattens out the tire laying more rubber on the road. For a guy running on a road course you need higher tire pressure so you don't roll over on to the sidewall of the tire when you are turning heavy G's. The recommended tire pressure is a balance between tire wear and driving comfort and performance. The max tire pressure on the marked on the tire is the highest pressure you can run without worry of a blowout do to pressure when the tire gets warm.

SRT8/BMW
07-26-10, 04:15 PM
New York? egads, no. I'm in Massachusetts. And I was in Dearborn last week for the SHO Convention.


hey thebigjimsho,

I remember you from way back--the old gen 1 V forum. Anyway--I was totally fired up about the SHO.. (my heavily modded 335xi has me loving AWD performance cars).

But there were two things about it that killed it for me when I drove it: the leg room of the driver is minimal--its like the wheel well curves right in there. And--it had torque steer--when I got on it. Something I wasn't expecting because I never get it in the BMW or any high output Audi I ever drove.. it just felt like a FWD car to me. Any perspective..I really like the look of that car and LOVE the motor/suspension.

thebigjimsho
07-28-10, 10:44 AM
hey thebigjimsho,

I remember you from way back--the old gen 1 V forum. Anyway--I was totally fired up about the SHO.. (my heavily modded 335xi has me loving AWD performance cars).

But there were two things about it that killed it for me when I drove it: the leg room of the driver is minimal--its like the wheel well curves right in there. And--it had torque steer--when I got on it. Something I wasn't expecting because I never get it in the BMW or any high output Audi I ever drove.. it just felt like a FWD car to me. Any perspective..I really like the look of that car and LOVE the motor/suspension.Yeah, for a car sooo big, its interior room is horrid. I don't mind a tight fit, but I know many who hate it. I even let a guy who runs a SHO parts network who wants a V and I let him drive it and he loved the driving position over the SHO. Too bad, really.

But the motor is very nice and has a lot of potential...

thebigjimsho
07-28-10, 10:45 AM
Cool! I still have my t-shirts from the '94 & 95 conventions in Atlanta and Dearborn!

Best regards,

Elie'95 was my first. Still have the shirt and folder with all the info. Have since been to Cleveland '98, Atlanta '99, Indy '05, Kalamazoo '07, Nashua '09, Dearborn '10...

MSJ
07-30-10, 01:00 AM
nice write up Jim. I am scheduled for my first hpde w/ the V2 at VIR with two days on South and one day on Full. I prefer south as I like to mix it up more on the tighter track. I'm grateful for the tire pressure info as a baseline to start so I don't have to spend extra sessions figuring it out.

My last four track events have been in an LS3 based z51 corvette and I, like you, have not been passed once. An earlier event that I tracked my V1 at was at Rockingham and I ended up giving a point by to a 911 turbo. I could definitely feel the mass of the V1 and I am also concerned about the weight of the V2. While the drive is confidence inspiring compared to my vette I can indeed feel the extra mass of the V2.

I've also been running r-compound tires on my vette, but I have not heard good tale of any r-compound holding up well under the weight of the V so I'll stick to my PS2's for now. I'd be interested to hear feedback from anyone running r-compounds on the V2 on a road course.

I believe yours is a manual, correct? I'm in an auto and this will be my first hpde in an auto, which should be interesting...lol

thebigjimsho
07-30-10, 01:11 PM
nice write up Jim. I am scheduled for my first hpde w/ the V2 at VIR with two days on South and one day on Full. I prefer south as I like to mix it up more on the tighter track. I'm grateful for the tire pressure info as a baseline to start so I don't have to spend extra sessions figuring it out.

My last four track events have been in an LS3 based z51 corvette and I, like you, have not been passed once. An earlier event that I tracked my V1 at was at Rockingham and I ended up giving a point by to a 911 turbo. I could definitely feel the mass of the V1 and I am also concerned about the weight of the V2. While the drive is confidence inspiring compared to my vette I can indeed feel the extra mass of the V2.

I've also been running r-compound tires on my vette, but I have not heard good tale of any r-compound holding up well under the weight of the V so I'll stick to my PS2's for now. I'd be interested to hear feedback from anyone running r-compounds on the V2 on a road course.

I believe yours is a manual, correct? I'm in an auto and this will be my first hpde in an auto, which should be interesting...lolWhile the 4200+ lbs on the V2 may be well masked on the street, it feels all its weight-worth on the track, to be honest. But the torque is so amazing, it's got me thinking about slapping a Maggie on my '04 when I get it road-worthy again as I'd rather track that.

I have 3 Pirelli Corsa tires but can't find a 255/35 19 LEFT to go with the other 3. I found the other 3 for cheap and figured I'd pay full price from the TireRack for that tire...but the 255/35 19 size only comes in Directionale now, so I'd have to buy 2. And that was $1200 in tires I wasn't ready to spend. If I ever complete the set, I'll get it on track...

thebigjimsho
07-30-10, 01:12 PM
And, yes, mine is a manual...