: I Think I Might Have A Problem... Bought Another Jeep



AMGoff
07-24-10, 03:34 PM
I simply couldn't help myself... It was just one of those moments. I had been keeping a vague eye out for an old Cherokee and actually overlooked this one for a couple of weeks. Glad I finally stopped to really check it out. Snapped a couple pics on the ride home.


http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4135/4823746509_67973edc6f_b.jpg

1993 Grand Cherokee Laredo 4x4, 4.0L straight six, factory Aisin 5-speed manual, 150K. Body is straight, paint so-so (which is pretty good for a '93 Chrysler paint job), with a bit of telltale northeast wheel well rust.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4097/4823746241_f0188c222a_b.jpg

Interior can be appropriately called "perfect" for a 17 year old - not a single tear, loose panel, nor obnoxious stain. Everything works - A/C, lights, seats, windows, locks, mirrors, stereo (not stock obviously) and every gauge except for the gas and oil gauges of course.

http://farm5.static.flickr.com/4102/4824359636_cc4d665f67_b.jpg

My old friend and nemesis... I have more torn knuckles from this engine than any other. Slight leaks from valve cover and oil filter adapter - probably why the previous owner got rid of it. Otherwise, the old gal still runs strong and shifts well.

This makes for my first Grand Cherokee... I knew I'd probably own one at some point, but I've never had an overwhelming desire. However, it was pretty much once I'd realized it was a rare 5-speed model (I'd never been in physical presence of a factory model before) that put me over the top with it. It finally gave me the reason to buy one that I never had before.

Paid a grand for it and at that price and condition, I certainly do not mind dedicating $40 and a few hours toward a set of o-rings and a valve cover gasket. :thumbsup:

hueterm
07-24-10, 03:41 PM
Great find -- should make a good 4wd winter beater.

Is the sunroof power or just a popup? Can't tell from the pics.

dkozloski
07-24-10, 03:56 PM
I never drove a Cherokee that didn't steer like it'd been wrecked. It's the only vehicle I've ever seen that the steering isnt self-centering and you have to unwind it when coming out of a corner on a city street. Other than that it's no better nor worse than any other old rattle trap 4WD. However, the steering alone is enough to turn me off and I'd never own another one.

Jesda
07-24-10, 04:00 PM
I never drove a Cherokee that didn't steer like it'd been wrecked. It's the only vehicle I've ever seen that the steering isnt self-centering and you have to unwind it when coming out of a corner on a city street.

Nissan Frontier is the same way, common 4WD vehicle characteristic.

Submariner409
07-24-10, 04:12 PM
:cool: Adam, Do the headlight lenses...........wouldn't want you crashing around the Pine Barrens in the dark.

Karen's daughter had this model for YEARS and it got to 220,000+ before plain, flat dying. (but Betty's idiot son had a lot to do with its demise)

ga_etc
07-24-10, 08:30 PM
That's the first 5 speed GC I've seen. Do want.

gdwriter
07-24-10, 10:25 PM
Looks like fun, and I think you got a good deal. For the headlight lenses, I recommend the 3M kit, which actually sands the lenses. I had to do the replacement junkyard headlight assembly on the Seville and got decent results.

Night Wolf
07-24-10, 11:24 PM
Is it the AX15 trans?

'93 I6 ZJ auto is the only year with the very durable and deseriable AW4 trans.


I never drove a Cherokee that didn't steer like it'd been wrecked. It's the only vehicle I've ever seen that the steering isnt self-centering and you have to unwind it when coming out of a corner on a city street. Other than that it's no better nor worse than any other old rattle trap 4WD. However, the steering alone is enough to turn me off and I'd never own another one.

That's very odd. My TJ has the exact same front suspension/steering as the XJ Cherokee, only difference is my TJ is a low pinion Dana30 axle while the XJ is a high pinion D30 (cheap and easy upgrade to swap axles) The ZJ Grand Cherokee also uses a very similar front D30 axle, 4-link, track bar and coil spring setup.

With that said, I think the steering, especially for a Jeep is very good, and my steering is self-centering, I don't have to unwind it.

orconn
07-24-10, 11:54 PM
I once drove something with no turn return to the steering ... don't remember what it was, but I do remember there was something wrong with one of the valves in the power steering which was later fixed. Having driven many sixties vintage 4 wheel drive Land Rovers and Jeeps, I don't remeber them being lacking a self centering steering action. May be a fixable problem when it is encountered on an individual car.

Kev
07-25-10, 01:29 AM
Looks like fun, and I think you got a good deal. For the headlight lenses, I recommend the 3M kit, which actually sands the lenses. I had to do the replacement junkyard headlight assembly on the Seville and got decent results.The 3M kit is probably a great, but if you have an electric buffer and polishing compound you can clean them up very nicely too. You do have to be careful not to burn the plastic with the buffer.

I've also just used the polish and a rag and a bit of elbow grease, but the buffer makes light work of it.

gdwriter
07-25-10, 01:32 AM
I had originally bought the Meguire's headlight kit (liquid and a buffer that attached to my drill) because I've had good luck with their products, but it just wasn't enough. I think the sanding disks that came with the 3M kit made the difference.

Kev
07-25-10, 01:34 AM
I once drove something with no turn return to the steering ... don't remember what it was, but I do remember there was something wrong with one of the valves in the power steering which was later fixed. Having driven many sixties vintage 4 wheel drive Land Rovers and Jeeps, I don't remeber them being lacking a self centering steering action. May be a fixable problem when it is encountered on an individual car.Sounds like not enough positive caster to me, is it common for four wheel drive vehicles to have near neutral caster? I can see that being the case if there's no power steering + extra drag with the front differential ..... :confused: :hmm:

Kev
07-25-10, 01:40 AM
I had originally bought the Meguire's headlight kit (liquid and a buffer that attached to my drill) because I've had good luck with their products, but it just wasn't enough. I think the sanding disks that came with the 3M kit made the difference.Yeah, the plastic oxidizes and the surface can get pretty rough if not polished and preserved enough. When that happens you've got to have enough abrasion to polish the surface again. If you can't feel the grit in the liquid you may not be happy with the results.

ga_etc
07-25-10, 02:08 AM
Or just use some fine grit sand paper to sand down the lights good. Then take a rattle can of clear coat and spray them. The will come out looking nearly new. A friend did the headlights on my '98 Camaro for me and they looked great.

Night Wolf
07-25-10, 11:20 PM
I never drove a Cherokee that didn't steer like it'd been wrecked. It's the only vehicle I've ever seen that the steering isnt self-centering and you have to unwind it when coming out of a corner on a city street. Other than that it's no better nor worse than any other old rattle trap 4WD. However, the steering alone is enough to turn me off and I'd never own another one.

Unless you are talking about the full size Jeep Cherokee, which I have no experience with, then I can't comment.

But if it is the '84-'01 unibody XJ Cherokee, then I really don't know what was wrong. As I said my TJ has the same front axle/suspension/steering as the XJ and is very similar to the ZJ as well. My '05 has the Mercedes steering box, which is said to be less durable then the Saginaw box prior to '03.

On a stock Jeep, the only adjustable part of the front end is *total* toe. Some had eccentric bolts on the control arms for minor adjustment, most do not. The only way to adjust caster would be to buy adjustable control arms.

With that said, when running the stock fixed length control arms, such as I am, when the Jeep is lifted, the caster decreases. Less caster will cause less "return to center" when driving.

My Jeep has 2.5" Rough Country progressive-rate lift coils (front and back, along with their Perofrmance 2.2 shocks) with .75" coil spring spacer up front, Rough Country adjustable front track bar (to center the axle once lifted) Total toe is adjusted by loosening both ends of the tie rod and turning it. Steering wheel is adjusted by loosening the sleeve collar on the drag link and turning it. Alignments on a Jeep can be done in the driveway with a wrench and tape measure in little time.

The Mercedes steering box thats met a few rocks is hiding behind the steering box skid. Tires are 33x10.5x15 BF Goodrich KM2 Mud Terrain. With all that said, the Jeep is lifted, it has mud tires and even less caster then factory, my Jeep still has excellent road manners including a very strong return to center with the steering.

http://i43.photobucket.com/albums/e363/InoventionsEast/Jeep/misc-1/IMG_0007.jpg

I took a few videos...

In 4H, 1st gear:

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On the road:

8ixhGiUmpXE

^After watching that, I thought there was a pimple on my arm, false alarm.

Parking lot:

6ZRhyflkxok

*edit* If it is hard to tell in the videos, each time I first moved the steering wheel with my hand, I pulled it away from the wheel and it self returned.

mattstermind
07-26-10, 01:03 AM
FYI: For the headlights you can buy new ones online for $12 each, plus shipping, (including bulbs) and install them.

AMGoff
07-26-10, 03:31 AM
So two full days in now and I remain impressed with this old Jeep... It's been over a decade since I last owned a 4.0L Jeep and actually somewhat forgot what a little torque monster this engine is. I've been flogging it about as hard as I can to try and coax any underlying problems... Thus far it hasn't missed a beat.


Great find -- should make a good 4wd winter beater.

Is the sunroof power or just a popup? Can't tell from the pics.

It's a popup Mike... Don't believe it's factory, but I could be wrong. Either way it's water tight and seems like it was installed well if indeed an aftermarket job.


I never drove a Cherokee that didn't steer like it'd been wrecked. It's the only vehicle I've ever seen that the steering isnt self-centering and you have to unwind it when coming out of a corner on a city street. Other than that it's no better nor worse than any other old rattle trap 4WD. However, the steering alone is enough to turn me off and I'd never own another one.

Why isn't this surprising... :helpless:

Neither of my previous Cherokees nor this GC have any problem with the steering self-centering itself out of a turn. Beyond that, they drive like Jeeps - hence, they're either your thing or not.

Then it must be a combination of bad luck, timing, and location

:cool: Adam, Do the headlight lenses...........wouldn't want you crashing around the Pine Barrens in the dark.

Karen's daughter had this model for YEARS and it got to 220,000+ before plain, flat dying. (but Betty's idiot son had a lot to do with its demise)

Jim... The headlights are absolutely atrocious! Low beam output on a dark road is next to nothing - high beams are currently requisite for driving anywhere at night, let alone traipsing through the pines!

I know Gary mentioned the 3M restorer... Which products have you used to success. Actually, if I remember correctly, I do recall my granddad using toothpaste on his vehicles to fairly good results. I'm sure with enough elbow grease, any of them will get the job done.


That's the first 5 speed GC I've seen. Do want.

I've heard and read of them before... However, like I said, this was the first time I'd ever physically seen let alone driven one. It easily put me over the top!


Is it the AX15 trans?

'93 I6 ZJ auto is the only year with the very durable and deseriable AW4 trans.



That's very odd. My TJ has the exact same front suspension/steering as the XJ Cherokee, only difference is my TJ is a low pinion Dana30 axle while the XJ is a high pinion D30 (cheap and easy upgrade to swap axles) The ZJ Grand Cherokee also uses a very similar front D30 axle, 4-link, track bar and coil spring setup.

With that said, I think the steering, especially for a Jeep is very good, and my steering is self-centering, I don't have to unwind it.

Yes it is an Aisin AX-15 manual transmission and I believe it was the only 5-speed Jeep ever mated to the 4.0L... At the very least it was definitely the only manual ever offered for the Grand Cherokees.

Speaking of suspensions... I learned another helpful (and mind-easing) tidbit about these early '93 Grand Cherokees (mine has a build date of October '92). This one actually uses U-joints similar, if not directly lifted from the XJs which is a nice surprise (to me at least). I previously thought all GCs used CV joints, but I was pleasantly mistaken about that!