: Proposed trade, not initiated by me.



ga_etc
07-22-10, 11:28 AM
I know I will probably get something thrown at me for even bringing this up, but what the hell. :alchi:

I got a call from a very good friend of mine last night telling me that he works with a guy that might be interested in trading for my Deville. They were talking and the guy said that he was looking to trade for a larger car, so my friend tells him about my car. They came over this morning so the guy could look at the Deville and see what he thinks. After going to where his car was parked (he rode with my friend to my house) I was presented with a 1992 Chevrolet Lumina Z34. They are pretty hard to come by cars, and this one is even rarer because it is a 5-speed manual.:thumbsup: The car is red with grey cloth interior and all the standard power options. It's not a bad looking car at all and would clean up pretty well. However, it does need a headliner and is getting due for a set of tires, probably in 1,000 miles or so. The Deville only needs a new muffler installed ($100). He is wanting to trade key for key. He doesn't have any money to throw in because he has 5 kids and a wife. I am tempted for the simple fact that the car is pretty rare these days, and like Jesda, I'm weird when it comes to cars. I don't know if there are any known issues with the DOHC 3.4 though. Any thoughts or info on problems with the car?

It is pretty much identical to this:
http://images3.ecarlist.com/photos/1968_266173/266173_001_4068.jpg

hueterm
07-22-10, 11:43 AM
Weren't you trying to go down to one car?

How many miles on each? All other things being equal, I'd way rather have the Deville. Especially since you have the ETC.

ga_etc
07-22-10, 11:53 AM
136k on the Z34. 156k on the Deville. I was thinking about selling the Deville at one point because I couldn't figure out why it was getting atrocious gas mileage. The mileage is back up where it should be now. Assuming you're referring to my FB posts, my financial situation sucks. I wouldn't hurt to sell one of the cars, but at the same time it really helps to have two. It's a bad situation.

hueterm
07-22-10, 11:55 AM
Unless your Deville is trashed and that thing is in good shape, then I'd say keep the Deville.

Bro-Ham
07-22-10, 12:11 PM
What's the purpose of doing the trade? Why swap your problems for someone else's? WHY would you want a Luminator over a Cadillac?! :)

drewsdeville
07-22-10, 12:17 PM
The 3.4 is a neat engine, but near impossible to work on. If anything, ANYTHING goes wrong, the first thing you have to do is remove the intake manifold (and this includes even a simple tune-up). It reminds me of my girlfriends old Ford 2.5L Duratec DOHC. GM had a hard time packaging that engine as it was built on a regular 3.1L pushrod block that was adapted for DOHC use. In fact, I believe the big giveaway for this is that the balance shaft for the DOHC 3.4 runs where the camshaft normally would in the 3.1!

Neat car though, especially in 5 speed manual flavor.

I say go for it if you think you will have more fun with it than the Deville.

ga_etc
07-22-10, 12:28 PM
Mike, neither is trashed. They both have things you can nit-pick.

Dave, I wouldn't really think of it as trading one problem for another. Both cars run very good. And the only reason I am considering trading is because you can buy '89-'93 Devilles all day long for $1500-$2000. You hardly ever see a Z34. Cleaned up and a couple of little things sorted out, it would be an interesting piece to take to the local car shows.

ga_etc
07-22-10, 12:40 PM
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/P07-22-10950710-1.jpg
VS
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/0411101352-1.jpg

drewsdeville
07-22-10, 12:54 PM
It looks like the paint is really faded on the Deville, though it looks :ok: here since it's wet. Though the Deville probably looked better when new, I'd say the Lumina stands a better chance of being cleaned up to be the better looker. The Lumina looks like it just needs a cleaning. The Deville's paint looks like it's beyond repair short of a repaint.

gdwriter
07-22-10, 01:07 PM
Much as I consider the Lumina an embarrassment not worthy of the Bowtie, this one is at least interesting and rare. Sounds like the 3.4 DOHC is a pain to work on (not sure if you do any work yourself) and certainly not as rock solid as the 4.9 in your Deville (I even managed to do some maintenance and repairs on Cruella, and I'm not a decent backyard mechanic by a long shot). Might as well give it a test drive at least and see if you even like it.

ga_etc
07-22-10, 01:09 PM
It looks like the paint is really faded on the Deville, though it looks :ok: here since it's wet. Though the Deville probably looked better when new, I'd say the Lumina stands a better chance of being cleaned up to be the better looker. The Lumina looks like it just needs a cleaning. The Deville's paint looks like it's beyond repair short of a repaint.

The passenger side front fender is a little faded. It's due in part to the fact that the front fenders on this gen Deville are fiberglass. It doesn't look like that when waxed though, as it's due for a fresh coat.

After a full detail:
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/0411101828.jpg
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/0411101828b.jpg
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/0411101829.jpg
http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/0411101830.jpg

Far from due for a repaint.

drewsdeville
07-22-10, 01:11 PM
The passenger side front fender is a little faded. It's due in part to the fact that the front fenders on this gen Deville are fiberglass. It doesn't look like that when waxed though, as it's due for a fresh coat.


Far from due for a repaint.

Ah ok. Yeah the one front fender that you speak of is what threw me off in the original pic. It doesn't look to good at that angle. I assumed that the rest of the car looked like that under all of the water.

Funny, when I had my old '92 the front fenders were probably in the best condition of all panels on the car. It didn't even have the obligatory cracks in them. My paint damage began on the trunk/top of the rear quarters.

ga_etc
07-22-10, 01:17 PM
Much as I consider the Lumina an embarrassment not worthy of the Bowtie, this one is at least interesting and rare. Sounds like the 3.4 DOHC is a pain to work on (not sure if you do any work yourself) and certainly not as rock solid as the 4.9 in your Deville (I even managed to do some maintenance and repairs on Cruella, and I'm not a decent backyard mechanic by a long shot). Might as well give it a test drive at least and see if you even like it.

Yes, the V6 in the Lumina is a royal PITA to work on. The 4.9L is quite the PITA in it's own right too, but it does win in the reliability category. I haven't driven the Z yet, just looked at it. We're supposed to meet up again on Saturday to look at it again and drive it then. Only then can I make a full decision.

drewsdeville
07-22-10, 01:21 PM
Yes, the V6 in the Lumina is a royal PITA to work on. The 4.9L is quite the PITA in it's own right too, but it does win in the reliability category. I haven't driven the Z yet, just looked at it. We're supposed to meet up again on Saturday to look at it again and drive it then. Only then can I make a full decision.

:eek:

In what way???

I feel that this is one of the few engines out there where just about anything can be done in less than 2 hours.

though, I've owned 4 and worked on many others... I'm quite seasoned at this point.

ga_etc
07-22-10, 01:22 PM
Ah ok. Yeah the one front fender that you speak of is what threw me off in the original pic. It doesn't look to good at that angle. I assumed that the rest of the car looked like that under all of the water.

Funny, when I had my old '92 the front fenders were probably in the best condition of all panels on the car. It didn't even have the obligatory cracks in them. My paint damage began on the trunk/top of the rear quarters.

I don;t know what has just the top of that fender looking like that. The driver side isn't like that. No cracks on mine either.

orconn
07-22-10, 01:45 PM
If you feel you are up to doing any repairs on the Lumina I'd go for the Lumina. When you are in a position to go and show at car shows I think the Lumina would be more interesting from that regard and would hold more long term interest. You already have a nice Eldorado. I thought the idea of getting the Deville was to have a car that your fmaily could use if their car was out of commission .... this might also effect your decision in this matter.

ga_etc
07-22-10, 01:58 PM
The way things have been recently, if mom goes anywhere she borrows the Eldorado. And with the way I have been working, on or off, I'm usually in the car alone regardless of which one I drive.

The Deville is the more practical car, but the Lumina has the allure of being an odd ball.

drewsdeville
07-22-10, 02:12 PM
The way things have been recently, if mom goes anywhere she borrows the Eldorado. And with the way I have been working, on or off, I'm usually in the car alone regardless of which one I drive.

The Deville is the more practical car, but the Lumina has the allure of being an odd ball.

The Lumina is only an oddball to those who know what it is, which I'm guessing is very few. To those that don't, it's just an early '90's Lumina...not much character or distinction. The Deville has some styling class that can be recognized by all.

77CDV
07-22-10, 02:55 PM
Your car, your choice. Personally, I'd stick with the Deville. If the Lumina speaks to you, though, go for it. You can always dump it later on if you find you tire of it.

Aron9000
07-22-10, 03:34 PM
I'd say keep the Cadillac. The Lumina is an oddball, but then again it was one of those GM cars that the base car was a total dud, and that's the one most people bought and remember.

Seems like you've already worked the bugs out of your Cadillac as well. You don't know what you're getting into with that Lumina IMO. When was the timing belt last changed?? I read that you have to remove the intake manifold to change the spark plugs as well.

Jesda
07-22-10, 05:16 PM
It doesnt have much charm. Its trashy in a not-so-trashy-that-its-ironically-cool way.

The Deville is good for another 200k.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-22-10, 07:00 PM
No, just no on that Lumina. Drew had it right when he said that the 3.4 twin cam is an odd engine and hard to work on, but the other end of the deal is how UNRELIABLE they are. When I worked at the Chevy dealership, one of the younger techs had a '95 Monte Carlo Z34, with that same DOHC 3.4L, and he was ALWAYS complaining about what a piece of shit it was. Everything was hard to work on, hard to find parts for and if I'm not mistaken, he said they had a problem blowing headgaskets or intake gaskets. I can't remember, but it was a big job and apparently all the twin cam 3.4's do it. That tech had a '99 GTP Coupe and he said after owning that GTP, he really regretted buying that Z34. All of the techs generally had the same opinions on that 3.4, and at one point, I asked one of them how it stacked up against the Northstar, it seemed like a fair comparison, both were ahead of their time, 4v per cylinder and twin cam. He said that the Northstar was roundly the better motor, because it was actually fast. :lol: And it was more reliable.

Keep the Cadillac. :)

ga_etc
07-22-10, 08:12 PM
Supposedly this one is really reliable. The guy says he's had it for a quite a while, not sure how long, but he's not had any trouble out of the motor. He did tell me that he recently had to replace the rack and pinion system in the car though. He said it gave almost completely out. Total bill was right at $500. If he calls me Sat. I'll look at the car again and drive it and go from there. Maybe I try to see too much potential in most cars.

93DevilleUSMC
07-22-10, 09:02 PM
Supposedly this one is really reliable.

That sounds about like what any seller of a used car would tell you. You know what issues your Deville has and does not have, but you don't know what issues the Lumina's had other than what the seller told you.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-22-10, 09:25 PM
I also think that those Luminas are really ugly and you've got one of the best looking Caddys of all time. Their interiors are awful too. The similar vintage GP GTP is the much better looker of the two, so if you had to have the 3.4 twin cam, that's the way id go.

ga_etc
07-22-10, 11:21 PM
Like I said, it's not a car I was actively searching for. I would definitely rather have a 3800 powered car, although the twin cam 3.4 does make more power than the same vintage 3800. 210hp/215tq in the manual version. 10 less hp if the car was an automatic. And I do enjoy the Deville. She has a lot of service left to offer.

Bro-Ham
07-22-10, 11:23 PM
I agree, no question, keep the Cadillac. The red thing is a clown car. My ex had a 90 LUmina Euro coupe when we first met way back in the day. It was in perfect shape but what an ugly hulk. Those cars weren't popular, at all, when they were new, and I doubt there could ever be any long term interest in them. Unless you're nuts. :)

Destroyer
07-22-10, 11:46 PM
Unless your Deville is trashed and that thing is in good shape, then I'd say keep the Deville.I agree with that statement. The Lumina is not an attractive car in any configuration. :cool2:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-22-10, 11:58 PM
Like I said, it's not a car I was actively searching for. I would definitely rather have a 3800 powered car, although the twin cam 3.4 does make more power than the same vintage 3800. 210hp/215tq in the manual version. 10 less hp if the car was an automatic. And I do enjoy the Deville. She has a lot of service left to offer.


The 3800 made 205hp and 230 lb/ft, and it's got a lot more low end torque to make low speed, in town traffic more fun. If you wanted a 3800 in a W-Body of this vintage, you'd have to get the Regal or Cutlass Supreme.

gdwriter
07-23-10, 12:27 AM
GM abandoned the 3.4 DOHC because you could get similar or better performance and much better reliability with the 3800. Much cheaper for GM to build, too I'm sure.

LS1Mike
07-23-10, 12:46 AM
I would stay away from the DOHC 3.4, not GMs best offering.

drewsdeville
07-23-10, 01:17 AM
GM abandoned the 3.4 DOHC because you could get similar or better performance and much better reliability with the 3800. Much cheaper for GM to build, too I'm sure.

It's not THAT bad.

Keep in mind that the 3.4 DOHC was still a good performer for it's day. It debuted in 1991 with 210hp...and that's NA, no forced induction. Back then the NA 3800, even with a displacement advantage, wasn't making anything near that: 170hp?, a full 40hp less. Even with a boost, the 3800S/C rated at 205hp just didn't have enough. Hell, even the Caddy 4.9 V8 couldn't top it.

The 3.4 also had a weight advantage at the time, being aluminum headed while the 3800 was all cast iron.

As far as hp/weight ratio back then, it was a pretty sweet engine.

Of course, that all changed when the 3800 Series II was introduced, making 205hp NA and dropped a few pounds in weight, and the 3.4 was phased out in favor of the 3800 like you mention.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-23-10, 01:24 AM
With the 3.4L DOHC in the Lumina, they were really going after the SHO. On paper, it was close, 210hp & 215 lb/ft for the Lumina, 220hp & 200 lb/ft for the SHO, but the SHO was consistently faster.

The 3800 always made more torque than the 3.4L did, 225 lb/ft in the series 1 NA configuration, and 260 lb/ft in the SC series 1 configuration.

ga_etc
07-24-10, 04:33 AM
With the 3.4L DOHC in the Lumina, they were really going after the SHO. On paper, it was close, 210hp & 215 lb/ft for the Lumina, 220hp & 200 lb/ft for the SHO, but the SHO was consistently faster.

SHO! Now there's a car that I actually want. '92-'95 straight shift please.