: Snagged me a Jag!



Destroyer
07-17-10, 12:31 AM
After an exhausting search for a new (to me) luxury car I finally bought a 2003 Jaguar XJ8. Why? Because I always loved this body style and this is the last year of it. I was in the market for pretty much any (foreign) luxury car but mainly a Mercedes S500 or Lexus LS 430. Came close to making deals on each only to find multiple problems when checked out by a mechanic AND lies about clean car faxes from dealers. This Jag was listed in the local Craigslist and even though this wasn't what I was looking for, I decided "what the hell", I'd check it out. Far exceeded the condition I expected and it was an absolute "steal" of a deal. My first Jaguar and I love it BUT it is no S500 Mercedes or Lexus LS 430 IMO. It is much smaller than either one of those cars but still very luxurious and "snug". It is a different driving experience and a good one. If I told you what I paid for it you would laugh and/or get sick. Here is a pic from the ad. The custom wheels just don't fit, I will replace them.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/16452612929279426734IM1MAIN565x421_.jpg

Jesda
07-17-10, 12:44 AM
NICE! The gentleman's luxury sedan! I'm looking forward to interior pics and a more detailed review.



To hell with the LS430. Life is short -- drive what moves you. :)

Aron9000
07-17-10, 12:58 AM
Love the Jaguar, the wood and leather interior is nicer than anything out there short of a Bently or Rolls.

Rolex
07-17-10, 03:25 AM
Great looking car. But what'd you pay for it already!?!

Destroyer
07-17-10, 07:40 AM
Great looking car. But what'd you pay for it already!?!$6k and the car has 90k miles. I was looking at spending more than 3 times that for a same year Lexus or Benz with similar mileage. Crazy. :thumbsup:

Bro-Ham
07-17-10, 07:56 AM
Looks nice! Hopefully it's a good one. Purchase prices on older Jags are usually super reasonable for a reason: the inconvenience and cost to fix them usually exceeds the enthusiasm level and/or budget level of most owners. I'll say a prayer for you. Best of luck with it! :)

noahsdad
07-17-10, 07:57 AM
These are seriously underrated and awesome cars. Jaguar engineers the best-balanced chassis package in the world. Since Ford took over, Jag's quality control has gone way up. That said, XJs can take a serious bite out of your wallet with parts and labor. Start shopping for a good Jag tech. The best is a certified Jag man who moonlights or works independently. If you allow Bubba's Garage to mess with this, you'll still end up at the Jag tech, and it will cost twice as much to undo what Bubba screws up. Also, do an owner backtrack to see if you can get the service history. Knowing what has been done can save you a lot of $$$ and headaches in the future.
BTW - If it leaks oil, it's a healthy British car.

OffThaHorseCEO
07-17-10, 10:06 AM
my boss has one of those. same colors but no tint and stock wheels.

he let me drive it a couple of times and i was impressed. it has plenty of power available as soon as you stab the pedal. the ride was soft and floaty but firm at the same time. it has leather EVERYWHERE. i personally didnt like the interior DESIGN but the fact that its all leather and wood made up for it.

there were a couple of things that screamed FORD but they were so few it doesnt even matter. To be honest I'm not a ford fan and i didnt think id like this car but i really do.

Congrats!

hueterm
07-17-10, 10:24 AM
$6k and the car has 90k miles. I was looking at spending more than 3 times that for a same year Lexus or Benz with similar mileage. Crazy. :thumbsup:


Biotch! ;-)

orconn
07-17-10, 12:11 PM
Congratualtions on your new purchase! I agree that the last of the "traditionally styled" XK8s are very attractive and make an excellent "gentleman's express. Although around Richmond I only see women driving them.

If I were in the market for a contemporary new car, it would most likely be a last generation XK8. You got a very good price, I hope you got more than you payed for! Depreciation on Jags matches very closely those of Cadillacs, unfortunately they are considerably more expensive to maintain. Unfortunately they often fall victim to the used car buyer that in a moment of ignorance and desire buy more car than their pocketbook can support .... and the car doesn't receive the knowledgeable maintenance it requires and deserves. Noahsdad's advice is wise to be taken to heart. Having owned several Jags, both new and used, I hope you have the good luck that I have had with the cars.

I am surprised, with your obsession with the cost and inconvenience that Northstar ownership may bring, that you wanted any of the luxury sedans that you mentioned here. All of them have the potential to make a head gasket replacement on a Northstar engine seem like a bargain compared to minor repairs of a more cosmetic nature on the luxury cars you were thinking about.

Well, I laud your good taste in automotive design nd wissh you the very best of luck in finding a good Jaguar mechanic and even better luck in having found a good cheap XK8!

ga_etc
07-17-10, 12:11 PM
It's a beautiful car and a hell of a deal. I'm a little surprised you bought it though. I would have figured with the known potential cost of upkeep on a Jag that you would have steered well clear of anything with a leaper on the hood.

orconn
07-17-10, 12:30 PM
Looks nice! Hopefully it's a good one. Purchase prices on older Jags are usually super reasonable for a reason: the inconvenience and cost to fix them usually exceeds the enthusiasm level and/or budget level of most owners. I'll say a prayer for you. Best of luck with it! :)

Very well put! This has been the case ever since Jaguars have come to these shores. Even back in the nineteen fifties and sixties, Jag sportscars and sedans found their way onto used car lots and were offered at prices that made them available to folks who had neither the money nor mechanical knowledge to know what they were getting into. As a consequence by the end of the second or third owner the cars were very often trashed beyond any form of reliabilty. Many of those that survived this treatment ended up being stored in barns or worse and many decades later became desirable as "collector" cars (although even then, they still didn't bring a price that their engineering and beautiful design should bring) to be very expensively "over restored" into the magnificent show cars we see today.

I happen to love the beautiful designs and great chassis Jaguar produced over the years, but as an experienced Jaguar (my last, a 1964 E-type coupe in excellent original condition was sold three years ago) I know the problems and expenses that even the recent cars can present their owners. Nothing is lik a jag ... in so amny ways!

Jaguars have been known as "poor man's" Rolls-Royces. But even a Jag requires deep pockets, today, to buy new and to maintain, so that despite their sobriquette, men of moderate, limited means would be wise to steer clear.

Destroyer
07-17-10, 11:18 PM
It's a beautiful car and a hell of a deal. I'm a little surprised you bought it though. I would have figured with the known potential cost of upkeep on a Jag that you would have steered well clear of anything with a leaper on the hood.
Well, I did some research and was told the '03 model was much improved over the late 90's-'02 models mechanically. The Jag is a car I have always found attractive and simply could not turn down at this price. My '98 Deville was a different story, I never truly liked the styling and it was FWD which I never liked either. The Jag is a RWD drive car with an easily accessible (easier to work on) motor. As far as I know the V8 in the '03 was not problematic but I may be wrong. I'll give it a chance and hope for the best. It does look good in the garage. :cool2:

On an other note. The guy I bought this from had to go to his credit union to pay off his loan so they would release the title. He bought it 3 years ago. I figured he maybe owed a couple of grand on it but his payoff was $16,800. That really sucked for him! Damn, depreciation is a bitch!

ga_etc
07-17-10, 11:31 PM
Completely understandable. I like the '97-'99 Deville ok, but they weren't Cadillac's best styling effort. I wouldn't turn down a Concourse though. I hope the XJ treats you well. It's one of those cars that I would love to have myself, but until it is a more realistic dream, I will stand by Cadillacs. I know the N* is one of your least favorite engines these days, but luckily mine is still purring away. The ETC rolled to 131k today.

gdwriter
07-17-10, 11:38 PM
Life is short -- drive what moves you. :)Exactly! I also love the very British interiors of these cars; they literally reek of leather and wood. I understand they also have velvety rides without being all floaty and mushy. Enjoy it!

ben.gators
07-18-10, 12:12 AM
The guy I bought this from had to go to his credit union to pay off his loan so they would release the title. He bought it 3 years ago. I figured he maybe owed a couple of grand on it but his payoff was $16,800. That really sucked for him! Damn, depreciation is a bitch!

I can hear a warning sound from this! :hide: However congrad 4 new car and best of luck in this catch...

billc83
07-18-10, 12:29 AM
Congrats on the purchase, Destroyer!

Destroyer
07-18-10, 01:32 AM
I can hear a warning sound from this! :hide: However congrad 4 new car and best of luck in this catch...I thought the same thing UNTIL his wife pulled up to the credit union with a belly sticking out like nobody's business (expecting twins in a few weeks) driving a Miata. They need an SUV and he already accepted the fact that he was going to take an ass beating on the Jag. ;)

ga_etc
07-18-10, 01:54 AM
He bought it 3 years ago, so it was a 4 year old car at that point, and he still owed almost $17k when you bought it? He must have refinanced that loan a COUPLE of times. Either that or he had something else other than just the car on that loan. If not he had the worst car loan in history.

Destroyer
07-18-10, 09:29 AM
He bought it 3 years ago, so it was a 4 year old car at that point, and he still owed almost $17k when you bought it? He must have refinanced that loan a COUPLE of times. Either that or he had something else other than just the car on that loan. If not he had the worst car loan in history.
I didn't even know one could refinance a car. Anything is possible I suppose. I was shocked at what he owed on it.

mhamilton
07-18-10, 08:53 PM
Beautiful car! I just love the last generation Xj series :)

An Xj8-L is going to be my next car. I'm curious to know, how does the smaller engine compare with the N* setup? I know it's about 300 hp, and has at least 5 speed auto (maybe 6?). Is it geared to go off the line, and still end up with a nice cruising rpm? IIRC those engines are also an undersquare design... I always thought those were more for torque and not high rpm screaming... is that engine designed to rev?

Destroyer
07-18-10, 11:12 PM
Beautiful car! I just love the last generation Xj series :)

An Xj8-L is going to be my next car. I'm curious to know, how does the smaller engine compare with the N* setup? I know it's about 300 hp, and has at least 5 speed auto (maybe 6?). Is it geared to go off the line, and still end up with a nice cruising rpm? IIRC those engines are also an undersquare design... I always thought those were more for torque and not high rpm screaming... is that engine designed to rev?These are all good questions, ones that I will get to answering AFTER I do the requisite servicing every used car I get gets. I will take it to my mechanic and tell him to do whatever it needs and get back to you on the performance. As of this writing I have only driven it......"normal".

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-18-10, 11:30 PM
Very nice Nick! I always LOVED the 98-03 XJ's, even thought about buying one when I had the Mercedes (before it started to kick my ass with $$$ repairs). I looked at one, and was surprised how different it was from my S320. The S320 was cavernous inside, and the XJ8 was quite cozy inside. The Benz was much taller as well, but the XJ was much more lithe and a better performer. The XJ just has so much personality in that old british way, even though Ford owned Jaguar by that time and were a major help in terms of reliability and dependability. So yeah, if I was to ever buy a Jaguar, it'd be a 98-03 XJ8, preferably a Vanden Plas. :cool2:

96Fleetwood
07-18-10, 11:36 PM
Congrats! I bought a 1998 XJ8 back in 2007 to make some $$....it took me 2 months to sell it and make a measly $800. They are nice cars but suffer from 90s styling and electronics.

Do you plan on putting XJR or XJ sport wheels on it?

hueterm
07-19-10, 12:11 AM
An '03 Vanden Plas looks very interesting, even at eBay prices or a little less. However, I have no Jag dealer nor British vehicle specialty shop anywhere near here....

I think I'll stick to my '03 STS (long shot near term) or '08-09 CPO STS-V (pretty sure thing in a couple of years) plans...

Jesda
07-19-10, 01:12 AM
I have a thing for the mid-90s X300 platform.

http://invimg.autofunds.com/InventoryImages/2008/10/177_46561_12793292_110821102008.jpg

Other than the V12 and supercharged versions which can be expensive to maintain (and XJR I6 has occasional head gasket issues), the standard 4.0L AJ inline-six is quite reliable. As far as I've researched, they're still among the most dependable Jaguar sedans on the road.

Aron9000
07-19-10, 01:26 AM
I have a thing for the mid-90s X300 platform.

http://invimg.autofunds.com/InventoryImages/2008/10/177_46561_12793292_110821102008.jpg

Other than the V12 and supercharged versions which can be expensive to maintain (and XJR I6 has occasional head gasket issues), the standard 4.0L AJ inline-six is quite reliable. As far as I've researched, they're still among the most dependable Jaguar sedans on the road.

I love the buttery smoothness and sound of the big Jaguar six. Performance was brisk for its era as well, 221hp for the new engine in 1984, 245hp/289lb/ft by the mid 90's. Jaguar should reintroduce the big six IMO, 300-320hp N/A and good fuel economy would really sell right now IMO.

mhamilton
07-19-10, 09:39 AM
These are all good questions, ones that I will get to answering AFTER I do the requisite servicing every used car I get gets. I will take it to my mechanic and tell him to do whatever it needs and get back to you on the performance. As of this writing I have only driven it......"normal".

LOL, that's understandable. Actually, I'm kinda interested to know how it does in normal driving more than WOT conditions. With my ESC 3.11 gearing, if I drive conservatively and don't rev over 2k rpm, it takes an eternity to get to 35-45 mph. Sure the N* loves 4k+ rpm, but my wallet would not like that at every stop light! :) While the high gear is great on the highway, I often feel like it's at odds against the engine... it wants to rev, but you can't without really punching the throttle. At least compared with the Touring models, which will rev up to 2.5-3k with a light touch of the gas.

hueterm
07-19-10, 10:58 AM
I SO love BRG........





I have a thing for the mid-90s X300 platform.

http://invimg.autofunds.com/InventoryImages/2008/10/177_46561_12793292_110821102008.jpg

Other than the V12 and supercharged versions which can be expensive to maintain (and XJR I6 has occasional head gasket issues), the standard 4.0L AJ inline-six is quite reliable. As far as I've researched, they're still among the most dependable Jaguar sedans on the road.

Destroyer
07-20-10, 12:21 PM
Took some pics of the car this morning and drove it quite a bit. At first the interior seemed very small to me but I find it very comfortable. These are probably the most comfortable seats I have ever sat in. Interior still smells like leather. The drive is great, very quiet inside and the suspension is very soft and sporting at the same time. They interior and exterior are spotless on the car especially when you consider it has over 90k miles! It does need a fog light as one is broken. I cannot get used to the wheels and am looking for either stock ones, XJR or sport wheels.

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00067.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00068.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00065.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00064.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00075.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00070.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00071.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00069.jpg

http://i190.photobucket.com/albums/z251/AstrocreepVIII/DSC00079.jpg

orconn
07-20-10, 01:09 PM
Looks well cared for for a Jag with 90,000 miles. I agree the wheels don't look right.

orconn
07-20-10, 01:28 PM
The Jag sedan that really appeals to me right now is the 2003 XJ8 (X350 chassis) which retains the traditional XJ shape (although in better proportioned way that the long wheel base previous models did). However, I hear that the all aluminium chassis present very real problems when needing collision repairs; i.e. only a few repair facilities can work (successfully) on these chassis. I would think this is also true of the Audi A* which also use an aluminumm chassis. I also like the larger interior of the X350 model.

I know there are those that are taken with the new Jaguar XJ model , but I find it way too generic for my taste; it looks just like every other new luxury and aspiring luxury car that has come out in the last five years. Having had several XJ sedans over the last forty years, starting with a 1972 Series I short wheelbase (the best looking of the lot), I prefer my Jags to be uniquely and beautifully different in appearance ... unmistakenly a Jaguar!

Bro-Ham
07-20-10, 02:02 PM
Destroyer, good luck with the car - for what you paid you can't help but have a ton of fun with it. As you noted, a 2003 is far superior to the earlier Jag V8's with the engine problems. I had a 99 VDP which had the engine fail under warranty (thankfully), transmission failed a year later ($6k from my pocket) but, other than those two minor defects, I truly loved the car. :) Orconn, the 2004 aluminum car was technologically superior and the style was classic Series III XJ yet that car didn't seem as excitingly new - more like an ironed out 1987. The new XJ is more revolutionary to my eye and also controversial, and I suspect the style will grow on people, kind of like how the radical 7-series somehow became acceptable. I love the 97-03 A8 as well, that was, and is, a classic. :)

gdwriter
07-20-10, 02:05 PM
Unmistakeably British in the best sense of the word. Love the bonnet leaper.

Orconn, is the correct pronunciation Jhag-U-are? For some reason, it sounds classier and more British, like you park it in the gare-ahge.

Stingroo
07-20-10, 02:09 PM
I actually like the wheels. A lot. But I have to ask: What's up with that crazy ass looking shift lever pattern? I can understand the right side of it, but do you have to go like all the way down, then left, then up to get to manual mode or something? Or what is that?

Looks crazy. And EXCEPTIONALLY clean. I'd drive that everywhere I could. :) Damn it, Destroyer! We needed you in WPB. lol

orconn
07-20-10, 02:52 PM
American pronunciation is Jag-wahr. The British say Jahg-U-war. I say if you can afford to buy a new one .... and can afford to keep one up, pronouce it any way you want! I am sure old Sir William Lyons won't care as long as the money is in his bank!

Bro-Ham
07-20-10, 02:52 PM
Sting, that's the "J-gate" that Jags had starting with the 88 XJ. It's nothing that makes sense when you shift it but it's a British car so it doesn't have to. :)

orconn
07-20-10, 02:56 PM
Destroyer, good luck with the car - for what you paid you can't help but have a ton of fun with it. As you noted, a 2003 is far superior to the earlier Jag V8's with the engine problems. I had a 99 VDP which had the engine fail under warranty (thankfully), transmission failed a year later ($6k from my pocket) but, other than those two minor defects, I truly loved the car. :) Orconn, the 2004 aluminum car was technologically superior and the style was classic Series III XJ yet that car didn't seem as excitingly new - more like an ironed out 1987. The new XJ is more revolutionary to my eye and also controversial, and I suspect the style will grow on people, kind of like how the radical 7-series somehow became acceptable. I love the 97-03 A8 as well, that was, and is, a classic. :)

Funny, the "bangle-butted" 7 series BMW never grew on me. I still think it is as ugly as the first day I saw it.

Bro-Ham
07-20-10, 03:07 PM
Funny, the "bangle-butted" 7 series BMW never grew on me. I still think it is as ugly as the first day I saw it.

Nor me, BUT for a whole lot of people those cars went from eyesores to gotta haves pretty quickly. My first time with the i-drive nearly killed me. Makes me appreciate my old Cad with just a speedo, gas gauge, steering wheel, shift lever and maybe 4 other switches and actual radio knobs. :)

Jesda
07-20-10, 03:14 PM
I love the white piping on the leather

orconn
07-20-10, 03:22 PM
Bro-Ham, I know what you mean about sometimes "less being more." The first time I experience the joy of symplicity was my "83 VW Scirocco. No power steering, straight forward, simple controls for the HVAC and the radio. And if it were wrecked no big deal, just get another one!

My '02 Mercedes' dash controls were a pain; had to get out the manual for every little change. My friends who got the new BMW 7 series when they came out hated the i-drive and still do as far as I know. I dumped the Mercedes and picked up a used '95 Seville STS for a song ..... between the irritation of operating the Mervedes and the potential future cost of owning it I was happen to exchange for the relatively simple requirements of the Cadillac.

gdwriter
07-20-10, 03:35 PM
My '02 Mercedes' dash controls were a pain; had to get out the manual for every little change.I'm a man. I don't need no stinkin' directions.

The night I brought Sabrina home, I programmed all of my preferences in a couple of minutes in my garage.

Stingroo
07-20-10, 03:41 PM
I'm a man. I don't need no stinkin' directions.


This is the 11th commandment.

It's on the back. ;)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-20-10, 06:38 PM
Damnit! After seeing those pictures, it only furthers my desire to go back into that high-line class of executive sedan!!

77CDV
07-20-10, 06:54 PM
I love the looks of the Jag but I always found the interior too cramped, and I'm not a big person.

And Chad, if you buy anything like this anytime soon, I'll help you hand out your credit cards to the scam artists. :lol:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-20-10, 07:33 PM
I see a real nice example for sale in Nigeria. Wanna give me a hand and help me buy the plane ticket?? :lol:

77CDV
07-20-10, 07:45 PM
Is it that disposessed prince again? :lol:

ga_etc
07-20-10, 08:40 PM
That really is a sharp car. The white piping on the black leather really makes it pop. I very much approve. And the wheels are even growing on me. They look better in your pictures than in the first picture you posted from the PO.

Destroyer
07-20-10, 09:34 PM
Thanks for the comments. The piping on the seats is actually light gray not white. Still pops but a little softer of a pop than it would be white. I usually stay clear of high mileage cars but am glad I decided to go look at it because it's cleaner than any lower mileage car I looked at. Did a synthetic oil change today and will get everything under the hood (hoses, belts, etc) looked at and changed if necessary. Then I'll let you guys know how it "goes". :cool:

Destroyer
07-20-10, 11:41 PM
Funny, the "bangle-butted" 7 series BMW never grew on me. I still think it is as ugly as the first day I saw it.Never grew on me either but before I bought this Jag the last car I test drove was a 2000 BMW M5 (non "bangle butted"). Same color combo as my Jag. Loved it! The power was fantastic in the M5. The interior was.........not up to par with the Jag believe it or not but the suede headliner was choice. Just rowing through the gears at WOT in the M5 was enough. I made an offer on it and it was not accepted. Found the Jag a few days later............

orconn
07-20-10, 11:58 PM
I really like the way BMWs drive, especially the 3 series (the 7 series is just another "fat burgher's" mobile, not really not alot of fun to drive). The five series is very good to probably the best handling and fun to drive larger sedan, certainly among those available in the U.S. My favorite larger sedans are still the Alfa Romeos; drive even better than the Bimmers, unfortunately still not available on our shores.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-21-10, 12:00 AM
The new 7 Series looks pretty sweet, but when that one came out in '02, I instantly lost interest. I still never really warmed up to it. Which is a shame considering how well the E38 (96-01) did.

96Fleetwood
07-21-10, 06:47 AM
Never grew on me either but before I bought this Jag the last car I test drove was a 2000 BMW M5 (non "bangle butted"). Same color combo as my Jag. Loved it! The power was fantastic in the M5. The interior was.........not up to par with the Jag believe it or not but the suede headliner was choice. Just rowing through the gears at WOT in the M5 was enough. I made an offer on it and it was not accepted. Found the Jag a few days later............

The e39 is classic. I only have the 2.8 liter inline 6 in my e39 wagon but it still brings a smile to my face daily. Interior quality may not be up to par with the Jaguar but the electronics are better.

Destroyer
07-21-10, 10:37 PM
The e39 is classic. I only have the 2.8 liter inline 6 in my e39 wagon but it still brings a smile to my face daily. Interior quality may not be up to par with the Jaguar but the electronics are better.
I didn't even think of looking at a e39. I should have. I was hell bent on a LS430 Lexus above anything else. The M5 I drove JUST came on the lot of a Lexus dealer after I got done test driving an '03 LS 430 (bad color combo and didn't want the Nav system). I instantly fell in love with the M5. I felt like a kid driving it, all my experience as a racer with hot rods unleashed during the test drive. I made an offer of $16k on a $17900 asking price. I thought to myself "is this really what I want at this stage in life?", the answer was mixed. I'm not really looking to haul ass and that was the major thing the M5 offered. The interior/exterior were appealing but not fantastic. Looking for a regular 5 series didn't even cross my mind. Weird. The Jag was a freak accident caused by Craigslist. I wasn't looking for one but am happy I stumbled across it.

Aron9000
07-21-10, 11:25 PM
I've driven an e39 M5, and it does indeed "deliver the mail":burn:

Such an awesome machine, BMW hasn't built a better sedan yet IMO.

Jesda
07-22-10, 12:46 AM
My only concern with the E39 is that, from what I've heard, electrical bits like sensors and computers tend to flake out at 100k. I know like most 90s BMWs, the cooling systems need a modest overhaul at 100k too. True/false?

Stingroo
07-22-10, 07:38 AM
I've never been a fan of BMW's really, but the e39's are definitely the best looking ones. The newer ones look... goofy, rounded, ugly. I don't know. Not a fan.

But THIS:

http://images.europeancarweb.com/features/0510_05z+Dinan_BMW_E39_S3_M5+Front_Side_Burnout.jp g


:drool:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-22-10, 07:40 AM
The E39, E46 and E38 are the best looking BMW's in recent history, as many would say.

96Fleetwood
07-22-10, 03:46 PM
I agree!

http://i203.photobucket.com/albums/aa306/96fleetwood/SAM_0295.jpg


But I do love the piping Jaguar uses with their leather trim. The interiors felt almost as expensive as the RR/Bentleys of the same era. Gotta love connelly leather!

orconn
07-22-10, 04:18 PM
I also like the piping used in British cars. Its' good to see Jag using it again. The Vandenplas interiors are really first rate. Howver, Connolly is no longer used (much over rated, except for smell, in my opinion) Jaguar has been using the same leather supplier as Cadillac, Mercedes, BMW, Lexus and most oth auto manufacturers.

I agree whole heartedly with those that really like the E39 BMWs, best looking to date. I also agree with the finesse of the the BMW straight six over BMW's V-8 ( I have no experience with their V-12, but unless bragging rights are important, I still prefer a straght six. I wish Jaguar had stayed with that configuration instead of adopting the V-8 and V-6. My first drive of a Rolls-Royce was of a 6 cylinder Silver Cloud I. It was as smooth as all the ads claimed the car to be. Not long afterward I drove a V-8 powered Silver Cloud III, it was nowhere nearly as smooth. In fact it was not as smooth as the Jaguar XJ6 that I bought in its' place!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-22-10, 06:03 PM
I loved my inline six. So smooth, torquey and nice sounding. I only wish it had more power for such a hefty car.

Bro-Ham
07-22-10, 06:23 PM
Only the Vanden Plas used Connolly leather in the XJ series, I believe it was called Connolly Auto Lux. The standard XJ8 used a non-Connolly leather. If you see the models side by side you can see the difference with the two textures of leather, the Connolly in the VDP is smoother appearing and the standard leather has a more grained appearance. I think Connolly went out of business about 10 years ago so no one is using it. How is the Jag running? I'm saying my prayers for you!!! :)

Destroyer
07-22-10, 09:41 PM
How is the Jag running? I'm saying my prayers for you!!! :)The Jag is running like I would expect a new car to run (prayers must be working so keep sayin' them please). I put almost 400 miles on it today and really enjoyed driving it. No squeaks, rattles or anything abnormal. Spent most of that time on the highway cruising between 60 and 80 but got it over 100mph a few times and it was steady as a rock and very quiet. I think it was one hell of a deal for the money. :thumbsup: Just noticed you are in Sarasota. I was there last week looking at a Chevy Tahoe that turned out to be junk.

Bro-Ham
07-22-10, 10:10 PM
I'm glad you're having good luck and I hope that will continue. :)

Destroyer
07-22-10, 10:20 PM
I'm glad you're having good luck and I hope that will continue. :)
It's only been a few days, give it some time. I don't buy a car like this expecting it be problem-free forever. I know it will break and will be expensive to fix when it does. I do think this one is worth fixing if it breaks whereas I didn't feel my Deville or more recently my '99 Eldorado was. I loved the XJ6 and XJS Jags since I was a kid and always wanted one. Parts may be more expensive for the Jag but I don't see why labor would be. Seems fairly easy to work on.

Bro-Ham
07-22-10, 10:46 PM
After owning my 99 XJ VDP I shiver and shudder every time I see a Jag... Like you, I had always wanted one and now that it's out of my system I'm like the people in AA, just trying to help out spiritually those who currently have the disease. :)

Destroyer
07-22-10, 11:05 PM
After owning my 99 XJ VDP I shiver and shudder every time I see a Jag... Like you, I had always wanted one and now that it's out of my system I'm like the people in AA, just trying to help out spiritually those who currently have the disease. :)
LMAO, cool, alright. If it turns out to be a pile of crap I'll harass anyone that like's them on the Jaguar forums (which I joined but not posted yet). Thing is, I don't mind dumping some money into it as long it is reasonable. I like it and I'm not really hurting for money so it isn't like I can't "afford" to fix it. It really just boils down to " if I want to fix it". With this car I think I will.

orconn
07-22-10, 11:55 PM
I have enjoyed Jaguars since I was about seven years old. First the XK !20 my uncle got in 1949, and then the prewar sedan and cabriolet that used to pick up some kids from my grade school. My Mother used my love of Jags ... and the smell of Connoly leather to spur me on to higher achievement in elementary school with reward trips to the Peter Satori foreign car dealership. Around someplace I still have a picture of me, age eight or nine, standing beside a two tone (lack fenders yellow mid body) Jaguar XK 120 in front of the agency. In the mid fifties I used to be able to convince my uncle who still had the 120 roadster to take me for rides in it despite cold New Jersey weather.

While I had had the use of one of my parents' car during my teenage years, I didn't actually own a car of my own until I was 22 years old. But when it was time to pick out that first car, you know it had to be a Jag. I was lucky to find a really nice 1968 XK 150 drophead coupe (convertible),the year was 1965, that had been partially refurbished including a really nice new red paint job and a new clutch. That was a great car and started my charmed existance with Jaguars, which just ended three uears ago with the sale of my really nice original 1964 Series I E-type coupe. I'd really like to have a nice XK8 coupe, but I wouldn't get enough use out of it to keep it running well. Jags need to be driven regularly to not have problems!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-23-10, 12:00 AM
LMAO, cool, alright. If it turns out to be a pile of crap I'll harass anyone that like's them on the Jaguar forums (which I joined but not posted yet). Thing is, I don't mind dumping some money into it as long it is reasonable. I like it and I'm not really hurting for money so it isn't like I can't "afford" to fix it. It really just boils down to " if I want to fix it". With this car I think I will.

That's how I felt with that S-Class. I knew it was gonna be expensive to fix, but with an S-Class, I figured it was justified to spend the big money to get it fixed, because the resale value was still high in comparison.

Destroyer
07-23-10, 09:05 PM
So I'm looking through youtube at Jaguar stuff since I just bought one (I'm not the only one that does this when buying a new car right?). Stumbled upon this video of an old, beat up Jaguar XJS with nitrous drag racing against a TT 911, Ferrari, Vette and others. Pretty cool!


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1niGcrwDRTY

Night Wolf
07-24-10, 12:02 AM
Very nice Jag! I like it alot :thumbsup:

Man all this talk about XJ's makes me think I'm in the Jeep forum... all the talk about BMW's makes me glad I started working on the e30 again.... and all the praise of inline sixes makes me proud to own two!

I agree, e39 is a very good looking car that still offers alot of fun, I have rode along in a V8 w/ manual, but I think for a daily driver I'd prefer the I6, non M. e38 is an excellent looking car but too much luxury, not enough fun, and I've heard can be much more expensive to maintain then similar 3/5-series.

I'm just gonna be glad when I start daily driving the e30 again, maybe some years down the road when the e30 becomes a toy and the Jeep is paid off I'll pick up a nice manual e39.

On a different note, today I drove the slowest car in my life - a car which makes a 307 Cadillac feel "fast" and my Jeep feel like a freakin muscle car.... 1981 Mercedes 300D, non-turbo, I5, automatic. I thought my friend was just being a "laid back driver" but it turns out the throttle is either "on" or "off" and it was struggling to reach 25mph up a small hill. 211k miles and it used to run off Jet-A, I still like it alot and think it's a cool car, I've helped work on it over the last couple years, neat car.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-24-10, 02:20 AM
On a different note, today I drove the slowest car in my life - a car which makes a 307 Cadillac feel "fast" and my Jeep feel like a freakin muscle car.... 1981 Mercedes 300D, non-turbo, I5, automatic. I thought my friend was just being a "laid back driver" but it turns out the throttle is either "on" or "off" and it was struggling to reach 25mph up a small hill. 211k miles and it used to run off Jet-A, I still like it alot and think it's a cool car, I've helped work on it over the last couple years, neat car.

Cool stuff. Yeah I remember reading about how ridiculously slow those were, even back in '81. Weren't they only 80 hp?

Night Wolf
07-24-10, 03:37 AM
Cool stuff. Yeah I remember reading about how ridiculously slow those were, even back in '81. Weren't they only 80 hp?

I don't know, but there is no power whatso ever. Just to get it to move as I backed out of my driveway required half throttle, then I literally had to go WOT to begin up the slight hill next to my house.

*edit* 78hp, not sure what the torque was. The car really must be pushing closer to 4,000lbs as it's a solid old Benz. I thought it was a 3spd, I guess it is 4 tho.

The sad part is, they made a 4cyl non turbo diesel - the 240D.... tho they may have all been mated to manual transmissions.

Now that the motor mounts are replaced (used to be metal on metal and would literally shake the entire car) it's actually fairly quiet and smooth.

You really wouldn't understand it until you drive one. Even being a passenger I never thought it was "that bad" but when driving and you are literally running wide open each time you need to move the car.... well, like my friend said, you really have to relearn how to drive. Think like a fully loaded semi truck driver, at an intersection if an on-coming car was on its way, when you could normally pull out and be going down the road, you are still pulling out with this thing, there is no "merging" it's more like "s-l-o-w-l-y relocating"

I really can't explain it, I have never driven anything (that was road legal) as slow. In comparison, my slowest vehicle, the 4cyl Isuzu with 32's was fast, a 307 Brougham is fast, like I said, it's one thing to be the passenger - because the car does an excellent job at making everything seem quiet and smooth like you are just crusing.

With all that said, I still really like the car. It's a W123, I much prefer the W126, but it's fun. My friend had it 2.5yrs, didn't mess with the steering, suspension or brakes.... yet the car still felt tight and good, it felt solid, maybe because it dosen't reach enough speed to really push the rest of the car, I dunno.

But it really seals out the outside noise well. You no longer hear the engine from within the car, yet when he was behind me at a light, I heard it pretty well (granted the Jeep is all open) and louder noises when you open the doors disappears when you close the doors. In any case, it's a 1981 model car with 211k that is still used as a daily driver, A/C has been converted and works well, has a nice sound system in it. It gets 30mpg as well, like I said, there is something just cool about it, and apparently 211k miles of WOT on an engine really dosen't matter to these old oil burners.

Maybe we can get some videos of it next time....

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-24-10, 10:05 AM
After reading that post, I had to whip out my '80 Mercedes-Benz brochure and look at the spread on the 300D and instantly I remember how much I like classic Mercedes. The almost invisible panel gaps, materials of the highest quality, firm & comfortable seats, the thorough engineering prowess, the way it's engineered as a driver's car, yet it's still very comfortable for passengers, etc etc. They lost that feeling sometime in the '90s, as mine still had some of that classic Mercedes feeling, but it was newer and more cluttered with (very cool) gadgets, but these older ones are far simpler and probably way more reliable, especially the smaller, simpler ones.

Damn, now I really want one again. :lol:

Stingroo
07-24-10, 10:26 AM
It's German. Throw more gadgets at it to make it seem more appealing. lol

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-24-10, 11:12 AM
After Lexus hit the market in '90 with the LS400, a car that competed with the 420SEL at 2/3 the price, they realized they had to put more gadgets into their cars to appeal to the market that was jumping to Lexus.

orconn
07-24-10, 12:10 PM
I remenber seein an interview with a Mercedes executive, who stated that Mercedes felt it had to load its' U.S. market cars with more and more gadgets just to (sort of) justify the outrageous prices Americans were eager to pay for their line of cars!

Night Wolf
07-24-10, 01:25 PM
After reading that post, I had to whip out my '80 Mercedes-Benz brochure and look at the spread on the 300D and instantly I remember how much I like classic Mercedes. The almost invisible panel gaps, materials of the highest quality, firm & comfortable seats, the thorough engineering prowess, the way it's engineered as a driver's car, yet it's still very comfortable for passengers, etc etc. They lost that feeling sometime in the '90s, as mine still had some of that classic Mercedes feeling, but it was newer and more cluttered with (very cool) gadgets, but these older ones are far simpler and probably way more reliable, especially the smaller, simpler ones.

Damn, now I really want one again. :lol:

I still -really- would like a W126 :)

mhamilton
07-24-10, 03:03 PM
I still -really- would like a W126 :)

I'm still sorry I missed the opportunity to get my aunt's 420SEL years ago... those w126s were the pinnacle of Mercedes design and engineering. Shame, she traded that '88 for a '98 w140 *shudder*

Destroyer
07-24-10, 11:31 PM
I'm still sorry I missed the opportunity to get my aunt's 420SEL years ago... those w126s were the pinnacle of Mercedes design and engineering. Shame, she traded that '88 for a '98 w140 *shudder*I am a fan of both the W126 and and the W140. The W126 was the more reliable one a but the W140 was a better driver. Looks are subjective, I liked both equally. I have owned both and if I had to pick between the two I'd probably take a clean W126 over an equally clean W140 for reasons I can't explain.

Night Wolf
07-24-10, 11:34 PM
I'd like a late model 350SDL.... I like like them, alot.

Even my friends old W123.... the thing really feels like a little tank, it just has such a solid feel to it, the doors, closing them, the diesel engine, abit no power to move the car just feels, sounds and acts like a small diesel from a tank... no matter if it'll only move the car along at 20mph, just feels like nothing will stop it.

Seeing how diesel W123's and similar MB are used as taxis in the sahara desert, it dosen't seem like much stops those old Benz diesels either.

Which is why I'd like a 350SDL over a gas version, turbo 3.5L I6, so it's got *some* pep, I like diesels and I like inline 6's, I also think the car looks better in the longer wheelbase. I was thinking about it today, and a nice W126 would fit in well with the e30 5spd convertible and Jeep. Just because it is now "old" dosen't mean a thing, I'd freshen it up, make some changes that suit me (sound system etc...) and drive the heck out of it.

hueterm
07-25-10, 12:15 AM
What happened to the 2nd BMW?

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-25-10, 05:31 AM
I'm still sorry I missed the opportunity to get my aunt's 420SEL years ago... those w126s were the pinnacle of Mercedes design and engineering. Shame, she traded that '88 for a '98 w140 *shudder*

Why's that make you shudder?


I still -really- would like a W126 :)

I'd really enjoy owning a late 560SEL. '88 or newer after they updated the interiors.

Bro-Ham
07-25-10, 10:05 AM
Are the W140 the 92-99 S-Class? If so, they are neat cars to look at, imposingly huge which I find fun, and decent to drive in if you have one with at least a 5.0 V8. Compared to the overly simple 81-91 S-Class, the 92-99 was overly complex for its time and when the cars break you better pray you somehow have an extended warranty or a couple of silos full of corn and a very deep love and affection for your car as you place it in the hands of your friendly Mercedes mechanic, who, as I've noticed, will usually have a much larger house than you do. :)

Back in 1995 I was a horned up car wacko, making more money than I had sense to use it properly, and I bought my first jumbo S-Class, a 1992 500SEL, white with light silver on the bottom and gray interior, first year of the biggies, it had about 40k miles and I plunked down 48 thousand dollars to have the privilege to own and drive it and the rise of being a big shot young guy at the big boy Mercedes dealership. That was back in the day when a Mercedes was still a big deal and I sure felt like one in that grand car. :) Prior to this car I owned several MB's including a string of diesels and the car immediate to the 92 was a 90 300SE - beautiful car in black pearl with gray leather, so gentlemanly.

Anyway, I rolled up the miles as fast as I could on the 92 500, soaking in all the intoxicating pleasures of this beast which was so magnificent for its time. Things on the car broke and I didn't think a thing of it because it was under warranty and I didn't pay the tab...until the factory warranty expired a couple months later as my miles beat the time clock. After owning my old school semi-reliable Mercedes diesels I declined extended warranty coverage when I bought the 92. It should have occurred to me that it would be essential to have a warranty after visiting the dealer for several repairs on such a relatively young car.

So, long story long, the power seat mechanism broke about 100 miles out of warranty, $2500, ouch, the dealer got MB to cover it but said that was it for their extended courtesy. There was one other mechanical repair for $2,000, and I was at 10% of my purchase price in repairs in a very short time out of warranty. Ridiculous, I was done with the car, what a self fulfilling prophecy because I had a major accident on a road trip out east and the car was totaled. I lived to tell the tale, the insurance company paid me more than my purchase price so I was made whole for the car and the extra repairs I paid for.

I replaced this car with a 1988 420SEL with only 18k miles, it was 8 years old at the time. It didn't take long to get back into the big S-Class game again, I had 2 different 1995 S420's, both had extended warranties, and those warranty companies had to have gone broke after paying for those numerous repairs those cars required so often. I've gotten over this body style as something I would ever own again but I still admire the coolness of how they look when I see the survivors on the road. :)

mhamilton
07-25-10, 10:28 AM
Why's that make you shudder?

OMG... those w140 are, to my eyes, the ugliest things MB ever rolled off the line (putting aside biodegradable wiring harnesses and time-bomb evaporator cores). None of the stately formality of the predecessors, nor the smooth aerodynamics of the successors. Just way to bulbous and heavy for their own good. Now the interior is fine, reminds me very much of the 126, and I would take that over the 220 or 221 interior any day.

The hokey double pane glass was another genius idea... if you ever roll down your window part way you're faced with blind spots from the 1" black bar covering the seam on those.


I am a fan of both the W126 and and the W140. The W126 was the more reliable one a but the W140 was a better driver. Looks are subjective, I liked both equally. I have owned both and if I had to pick between the two I'd probably take a clean W126 over an equally clean W140 for reasons I can't explain.

I've only driven the 126 and 140 in the city, so can't compare highway manners, but the newer DOHC 5 speed s500 didn't even have the get-up-and-go of the older, 420SEL SOHC 4 speed w/ 2nd gear start (I'm guessing the body weight was at fault here).

Granted, my aunt's car has been trouble free by MB standards. The only major expense was about $2500 for rear shocks and spheres. But then again, she has not yet attempted to replace the broken console cup holder, or the faulty memory seat buttons.

Bro-Ham
07-25-10, 12:23 PM
I've only driven the 126 and 140 in the city, so can't compare highway manners, but the newer DOHC 5 speed s500 didn't even have the get-up-and-go of the older, 420SEL SOHC 4 speed w/ 2nd gear start (I'm guessing the body weight was at fault here).

the old 420SEL's are slow going at any speed compared to the newer 500's which have quick off the mark punch and loads of passing power. my 500 always left me wanting a 600 for the total space shuttle launch experience. :)

Destroyer
07-25-10, 01:00 PM
OMG... those w140 are, to my eyes, the ugliest things MB ever rolled off the line
Looks are subjective.:cookoo:

Bro-Ham
07-25-10, 01:22 PM
Destroyer, I'm still praying for you and your car... :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-25-10, 03:07 PM
Looks are subjective.:cookoo:

Agreed. I still think that the W126 was the best looking sedan M-B ever built, mainly because it was so long and thin compared to the W140, the W140 is handsome in a very imposing way, because there's just so much steel to it.

So in conclusion, I'd say that the W126 is the best looking M-B ever made, the W140 is #2, and the post facelift ('03) W221's are probably #3.

ga_etc
07-25-10, 04:20 PM
Are the W140 the 92-99 S-Class? If so, they are neat cars to look at, imposingly huge which I find fun, and decent to drive in if you have one with at least a 5.0 V8. Compared to the overly simple 81-91 S-Class, the 92-99 was overly complex for its time and when the cars break you better pray you somehow have an extended warranty or a couple of silos full of corn and a very deep love and affection for your car as you place it in the hands of your friendly Mercedes mechanic, who, as I've noticed, will usually have a much larger house than you do. :)

Back in 1995 I was a horned up car wacko, making more money than I had sense to use it properly, and I bought my first jumbo S-Class, a 1992 500SEL, white with light silver on the bottom and gray interior, first year of the biggies, it had about 40k miles and I plunked down 48 thousand dollars to have the privilege to own and drive it and the rise of being a big shot young guy at the big boy Mercedes dealership. That was back in the day when a Mercedes was still a big deal and I sure felt like one in that grand car. :) Prior to this car I owned several MB's including a string of diesels and the car immediate to the 92 was a 90 300SE - beautiful car in black pearl with gray leather, so gentlemanly.

Anyway, I rolled up the miles as fast as I could on the 92 500, soaking in all the intoxicating pleasures of this beast which was so magnificent for its time. Things on the car broke and I didn't think a thing of it because it was under warranty and I didn't pay the tab...until the factory warranty expired a couple months later as my miles beat the time clock. After owning my old school semi-reliable Mercedes diesels I declined extended warranty coverage when I bought the 92. It should have occurred to me that it would be essential to have a warranty after visiting the dealer for several repairs on such a relatively young car.

So, long story long, the power seat mechanism broke about 100 miles out of warranty, $2500, ouch, the dealer got MB to cover it but said that was it for their extended courtesy. There was one other mechanical repair for $2,000, and I was at 10% of my purchase price in repairs in a very short time out of warranty. Ridiculous, I was done with the car, what a self fulfilling prophecy because I had a major accident on a road trip out east and the car was totaled. I lived to tell the tale, the insurance company paid me more than my purchase price so I was made whole for the car and the extra repairs I paid for.

I replaced this car with a 1988 420SEL with only 18k miles, it was 8 years old at the time. It didn't take long to get back into the big S-Class game again, I had 2 different 1995 S420's, both had extended warranties, and those warranty companies had to have gone broke after paying for those numerous repairs those cars required so often. I've gotten over this body style as something I would ever own again but I still admire the coolness of how they look when I see the survivors on the road. :)

While on my way to the car show yesterday I stopped at a car lot in Cleveland (bad idea, I know) just for the hell of it. They have a black on black '89 300SE. It has 150k on the clock and is in really decent shape. A few dings here and there and the paint/interior looks good. Supposedly the air is ice cold and the I6 is good on gas. He said he drove it from Cleveland to Atlanta and back on a 1/4 tank of gas. Not so sure about that one though. I wonder how they would trade on the Deville...:hmm:

Bro-Ham
07-25-10, 04:52 PM
I had a 90 300SE back in the early 1990's. Nice looking cars, oh how slow, needs an overdrive, they are not as trouble free and romantic as some are making believe. Make sure the AC really works, if the car has a stack of service records as big as a telephone book from a medium sized city then you know you have a car that was loved and cared for properly. No records and only song and dance from the dealer selling it: beware. Good luck :)

mhamilton
07-25-10, 05:33 PM
Originally Posted by mhamilton

OMG... those w140 are, to my eyes, the ugliest things MB ever rolled off the line

Looks are subjective.:cookoo:

Ummm.... no kidding? That's why I said to me they are ugly. How does that make me :cookoo: ?

orconn
07-25-10, 05:41 PM
While on my way to the car show yesterday I stopped at a car lot in Cleveland (bad idea, I know) just for the hell of it. They have a black on black '89 300SE. It has 150k on the clock and is in really decent shape. A few dings here and there and the paint/interior looks good. Supposedly the air is ice cold and the I6 is good on gas. He said he drove it from Cleveland to Atlanta and back on a 1/4 tank of gas. Not so sure about that one though. I wonder how they would trade on the Deville...:hmm:

You gotta be kidding GA .... an old Mercedes for a young guy on a slim (eupemism here) budget. Heed Bro-Ham's wise words .... Mercedes are not anywhere as bullet proof as the loose wagging tungs would have you believe, and whether it is something major or just an accessory going bad it will cost you more than you ever thought possible for the part and the labor to be it in.

As I have said before, and from some fifty years of being around Mercedes-Benz automobiles. These cars are the most over rated, heavy, slow (unless you are looking to spend more than $100,000. new) cars in the world. Having listened to the gripes of Mercedes "S" and "E" class owners for most of my life I have to say things do break (regularly) cost of maintenance is insane (if you spent the amount you will on your Mercedes on a Cadillac you could be sure of driving it past the 500,000 mile mark), but there is so much mythology about how indestructible a Merc is most who have never really owned one are taken in by the street talk. The only people I have heard that never complained about the problems and cost of their Mercedes were wealthy ladies who had no idea of what a car should cost to own.

I will have to hand it to the Germans, though, they have managed to convince Americans of the "superiority of German engineering" and that the extraordinarily high cost of their products is justified by their intrinsic superiority. Buy that crap if you like and buy one .... or, as they used to say about owning a boat, or better yet find a friend who has one!

I can't really believe some of you guys are nestalgically singing the wonders of '60's, '70's and '80's Mercedes 240-300D's .... talk about heavy slow pigs! Kooop is on the money in his recollection of their 0 to 60 mph times. If you lived in Southern California these diesel Mercedes were actually dangerous to their fellow motorist! I mean even a Peugeot diesel was faster than a Mercedes .... and I might add stood up just as well in Africa (I was there and can vouch for the old Peupigs!).

ga_etc
07-25-10, 07:22 PM
I was kidding Orconn. I know there is no way in the world that I could afford the cost of ownership on a Merc right now, no matter what age or model. I do love the styling of the W126 though, and would love to have one, one day. It might only take me owning one to get it out of my system, but it would be an interesting experience. I know where a guy lives (right down the road actually) that has a dark blue/grey trim over navy leather 420SEC. I think it's a 420, might be the 500. Beautiful car and such a timeless design. Every once in a while he puts a for sale sign on it. Last time I talked to him he said wanted $3500 for it. Said the headliner was sagging in a place or two and something else on the interior could use being redone/replaced. I have a whole list of cars that I want to have some day, that day just simply isn't today.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-25-10, 07:27 PM
I'm glad I bought that W140. I wanted to own a high line luxury car for the longest time, and after doing so, I have it out of my system and I can further appreciate my cheaper domestically made cars. I will have another though, when the thought of possibly having to replace a $4,000 A/C evaporator is a little less scary.

Bro-Ham
07-25-10, 08:02 PM
I can only speak from experience since I've overindulged in some of the coolest cars that absolutely tickled me to death and I drove the wheels off of them every day. I'm so thankful I had so many of these "must have" cars relatively early in life since at the moment I've lost patience for all the hassles. :) Right now my crazy yellow 79 Sedan deVille d'Elegance is unique enough to keep me entertained and it's bulletproof reliable - more than I can say about any of the many old Mercedes diesel I ever owned - don't get me started telling stories about those diesels. :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-25-10, 08:09 PM
I always thought I should get the fun/expensive cars out of my system before I get married and have kids.

Bro-Ham
07-25-10, 08:10 PM
Rent. Get dogs. :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-25-10, 08:16 PM
Drive. Get drunk. :)

That's more like it.

ga_etc
07-25-10, 08:22 PM
I like way too many different types of cars. Right now though, I still think the next thing I spend serious money on will be a V1. I have always had a thing with sport sedans. I want enough room to be comfortable and take friends with me and luggage room for whatever I need to bring with me and a powerful V8 that is connected to a real manual transmission and clutch.

Destroyer
07-26-10, 09:54 PM
Ummm.... no kidding? That's why I said to me they are ugly. How does that make me :cookoo: ?Well you drive an Eldorado and call a W140 ugly. That is a little :cookoo: to me but it is all subjective. :lildevil:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-27-10, 12:21 AM
I obviously think that the W140 is one of the best looking sedans of all time, but on the other hand, the 92-02 Eldorado, especially the 96-02 ETC, is one of the best looking coupes of all time, especially from the '90s, where it stood out from everything else.

96Fleetwood
07-27-10, 08:29 AM
How can this be ugly...

http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r247/wmu37/Picture347.jpg

Destroyer
07-27-10, 08:41 AM
I obviously think that the W140 is one of the best looking sedans of all time, but on the other hand, the 92-02 Eldorado, especially the 96-02 ETC, is one of the best looking coupes of all time, especially from the '90s, where it stood out from everything else.
The Eldo is an alright looking car but it doesn't send out the same vibes as a W140.

ga_etc
07-27-10, 08:53 AM
Granted, but the Eldo, especially the ETC, does hold it's own in the styling department. And many others as well. Then again, I am a bit biased.:rolleyes:

http://i685.photobucket.com/albums/vv220/austin99etc/P8050007.jpg

mhamilton
07-27-10, 10:41 AM
Well you drive an Eldorado and call a W140 ugly. That is a little :cookoo: to me but it is all subjective. :lildevil:

Haha... not quite sure I want to touch that one! But in all honesty, I never really liked this generation Eldo until I saw one without the awful simulated convertible top. When the coach top covers those crisp quarter panel edges, the rear end gets a very bulbous look to it.

Now, I'm hesitant to even say this on a Cadillac forum, but similarly I find the mid '90s era Deville to be a bit bloated looking from the rear. They're not to my taste either.


How can this be ugly...

Okay, I will concede that perhaps "ugly" is the wrong adjective. It's not pug-ugly like the Cube or Insight. I don't put it in the same category as those cars. But I maintain that it is the worst looking MB in my opinion. It's just too bulky looking. I like my cars big, don't get me wrong, but it's big in the wrong way. I don't think it has an imposing look on the highway like the old models, just oversized.

I remember an article that the designer of the 140, who also designed the 126 IIRC, said himself he was not pleased with the results. (here is all I can find at the moment, there was a different article years ago http://www.automobilesdeluxe.tv/tag/w140/)

"Perhaps it doesn’t help that the sedan’s designer, Bruno Sacco, discredited Mercedes’ W140 generation flagship for being “too tall” and wide. That said, for all its mass the W140 was in the US market two inches shorter in length than its predecessor, the W126."

Now these are beautiful Mercedes cars:

'71 280SE
http://img830.imageshack.us/img830/7273/71280se.jpg

'70 300SEL
http://img193.imageshack.us/img193/9812/70300sel.jpg

'91 560SEL
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/2250/91560sel.jpg

Stingroo
07-27-10, 10:57 AM
I can't say I like either the W126 or W140...

:hide:

V-Eight
07-27-10, 11:08 AM
I can't say I like either the W126 or W140...

:hide:

I have to say, I agree.

orconn
07-27-10, 11:48 AM
My all time favorite Mercedes are the 1957 300S Cabriolet and the '69 280SE Cabriolet. Both cars were under powered by American standards but set a very high standard in style and quality for personal luxury cars! Both are unique and after introduction became instant classics. At times I kick myself for not having bought either of these Mercedes when I had the chance! The 1960 300SL Roadster was another truly outstanding Mercedes design that I miss having owned.

Since the mid 1970's I have never been able to get into Mercedes designs and the driving dynamics were just too harshly Teutonic and mechanical for me. The indelable image of fat German burghers and equally fat fraus smugly tooling around Munich didn't endear them to me either. The ubiquitous 450 SL of the 1970's and '80's (at least in Los Angeles) really left me cold. I had two sets of aunt's and uncle's that had these icons of success, I drove each of the 450 SL's a lot and have to say that they were not alot of fun and very uninvolving cars. But there are people who to this day just love them!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-27-10, 07:18 PM
Worst looking Mercedes of all time?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Mercedes-Benz_W203_2006.jpg/800px-Mercedes-Benz_W203_2006.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/MB-W210.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Mercedes-Benz_W203_Coupe_front_20080709.jpg/800px-Mercedes-Benz_W203_Coupe_front_20080709.jpg

I still think that the W126 LWB sedan, especially in the post '86 facelift, is the best looking Mercedes of all time, and probably one of the best looking German sedans of all time, but I can't fathom how anyone could find the W140 ugly. It's sheer size and smoothly rounded edges along with it's sheer mass give it a very formidable look.

Stingroo
07-27-10, 07:20 PM
Doesn't do it for me. Looks plain.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-27-10, 07:23 PM
Well German cars typically don't have the flashiness or flamboyance of American cars.

Bro-Ham
07-27-10, 07:32 PM
Chad, do you mean "post '85" since the 126 was tweaked for the 1986 model year, not after it. :) I'd take a last of the 5 cylinder diesel 300SD's from 81-85. Fun clackers... :)

orconn
07-27-10, 08:03 PM
I get a kick how people love to disdain the Mercedes 230K Sport coupe and yet fall all over themselves with the lines of the Cadillac CTS coupe. Hello .... talk about silhouettes ...... forward sloping with big butts, hatchback lines... all too similar for the degree of disdain. I drove the 230K Sport Coupe with the 6 speed manual trans, and while it was no Alfa Romeo, it was for its' base price a pretty decent, well equipped sport hatchback for $24,900. Ofcourse, if you started loading it up with Mercedes' rediculously expensive accessories the price climb into dumb territory. But the basic car was not bad at all.

As for recent Mercedes "C", "E' and "S" series they all make my least favorite list Mercedes designs.

orconn
07-27-10, 08:07 PM
Well German cars typically don't have the flashiness or flamboyance of American cars.

Let's face it Mercedes has done pretty well at spreading "Post Nazi" flash around the world, all the while claiming it is the epidomy of discreet good taste!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-27-10, 08:15 PM
Well, I suppose. Mercedes is probably the most flashy of the three high end german brands. But they've never been flashy with all sorts of chrome, faux wood trim, velour seats, shag carpeting and vinyl roofs like Cadillacs and Lincolns have.

V-Eight
07-27-10, 10:22 PM
Worst looking Mercedes of all time?

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/d/d2/Mercedes-Benz_W203_2006.jpg/800px-Mercedes-Benz_W203_2006.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/5/53/MB-W210.jpg
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/thumb/b/b6/Mercedes-Benz_W203_Coupe_front_20080709.jpg/800px-Mercedes-Benz_W203_Coupe_front_20080709.jpg

I still think that the W126 LWB sedan, especially in the post '86 facelift, is the best looking Mercedes of all time, and probably one of the best looking German sedans of all time, but I can't fathom how anyone could find the W140 ugly. It's sheer size and smoothly rounded edges along with it's sheer mass give it a very formidable look.

I think any Mercedes with that style of lights is hideous as well. In face, up until recently I haven't liked very many MB's styling.

Bro-Ham
07-27-10, 10:49 PM
I don't think it's possible to love a Mercedes. :)

hueterm
07-27-10, 11:14 PM
W126 SEC
W140 SEC/S Coupe/CL
W126/W140 S (Tie)
W140 SL

For me in that order...

orconn
07-27-10, 11:26 PM
Well, I suppose. Mercedes is probably the most flashy of the three high end german brands. But they've never been flashy with all sorts of chrome, faux wood trim, velour seats, shag carpeting and vinyl roofs like Cadillacs and Lincolns have.

You want Mercedes "mit" chrome ..... google 1957 300S Cabriolet, 1960 280SE Sedan (and fins thrown in too), 1967 Mercedes 600 Grosser, just for starters. Check out a 1936 Mercedes 540K for chrome. No vinyl simulated wood that I can remember, but the wood they did use had an in service life of about two yaers before it cracked and and the finish checked. I don't remember shag carpets in Cadillacs, but I sure do remeber velour upholstered, and, horrors, vinyl BenzTex Merc seats. The vinyl roofed Mercedes were not to my knowledge factory, but they were to be seen in Beverly Hills on occasion.

When it comes to ugly Mercedes I think those "winged" 1961 280SE would get my vote. The previous "Ponton" Mercedes of the later 1950's weren't very pretty either, to many they were flat out ugly!

But thenalong side those 1950's "Ponton" models you had the 190SL and 300SL roadsters and coupes among the best looking cars of the fifties.

Night Wolf
07-27-10, 11:52 PM
That black car (E-class) looks similar to a W140 to me...

Put me down as another that does not like the W140 styling... I've tried to. It's not that it's bad, It just dosen't look "right", the proportions are not correct, it's too tall, too much glass, too bloated. The rear 1/4 view is the worst to me, with the belt line of the windows not matching the trunk line. That styling works well on the last gen Eldorado, an edgy Coupe, but on the big Benz sedan, it dosen't flow. The hood is also too short with too much of a slope. I guess it wouldn't be so bad if the W126 wasn't just so right.

All of this, of course is IMO :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-28-10, 12:04 AM
Comparing W126 to W140 is like comparing 1992 Brougham to 1993 Brougham.

Destroyer
07-28-10, 12:08 AM
I don't think it's possible to love a Mercedes. :)
I love Mercedes. I'm a little old school and like the older stuff more but I have always loved the tri star. I never cared much for BMW's though. There are a few models I'd like but the Benz, to me, was always classier.

Destroyer
07-28-10, 12:16 AM
Comparing W126 to W140 is like comparing 1992 Brougham to 1993 Brougham.The '92 was prettier.

Destroyer
07-28-10, 12:19 AM
I guess it wouldn't be so bad if the W126 wasn't just so right.

:)I semi-agree with you Rick. I happen to like the W140 and think it does look "right" but will agree that the W126 was better looking overall. Still, I'd rather drive a W140. :thumbsup:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-28-10, 12:40 AM
I agree with that 100%.

Night Wolf
07-28-10, 02:10 AM
I love Mercedes. I'm a little old school and like the older stuff more but I have always loved the tri star. I never cared much for BMW's though. There are a few models I'd like but the Benz, to me, was always classier.

BMW, historically was not a "classy" car. They started out making bikes and quirky things, but it was the 2002 that really set them apart to be a "drivers" car, that was how they made their cars thru the 80's, with the e30 being the last. Even the 80's 5 and 7 series were not comparable to other full sized luxury cars from MB and the US. It wasn't until the e36 and following newer 5 and 7 series that BMW started catching on to the luxury crowd.

The more I get into it, the more I seem to like 80's era German cars, or maybe it's just MB and BMW, I'd still like a 190E 2.3/2.5-16v Cosworth, as they are alot cheaper to find then e30M3.

As was mentioned before, the W140 to the W126 is very much like the '77-92 DeVille/Brougham vs '93-'96, and the '90-'97 Town Car vs '98+, each grew, lost the long, low, lean stance and became a bit out of proportion and bloated in design.

Atleast for the 80's era, which I seem to be stuck in right now, it seems like with a few exceptions, performance - BMW, traditional luxury - MB. I like both.

80's era BMW are just so different from 90's era. They really were built around and for the driver, and not focused on luxury. Yes, they have luxury features, such as some cool gadgets and toys, but it is not a luxury car, at all.

I'm glad I am not like I was several years ago - stuck in my American/GM/V8 ways. It was all thanks to that Isuzu that introduced me to all sorts of new things. Because of that, I am now exposed to so many awesome cars that I would have otherwise not even considered. I remember looking at 3-series before I bought my '93 Coupe DeVille, the e36 I said it was too yuppie and I didn't like the front end, and I didn't know at the time, but it was the e30 I said looked too much like an 80's Sentra and the interior looked cheap and not luxury enough. Then again this was when I wanted chrome, fake wood, a bench seat and column shifter.

Since owning the BMW's and Jeep, I have not experienced what owning a "fun" vehicle is like, and I really enjoy it.

I know there is/was alot of hostility towards me regarding the W140/Chad. I'm sure I went about things the wrong way at the time too when comparing W140 vs Town Car. What I really was trying to say at the time was that for what was being desired from a car, the TC would have been a better choice given the living/financial situation. Thinking back, I probably jept on about it vs say it once and be done. I apoligize if it came across as trying to sound like an "i'm better than you" statement, wasn't ment to be.

Jesda
07-28-10, 03:25 AM
W140 is one of my all-time favorites. When I think of MB, I think of boxy, stately, proud cars.

I was born in 1981.

Stingroo
07-28-10, 06:58 AM
Wow, I fail. Wrong thread lol

Destroyer
07-28-10, 08:35 AM
The more I get into it, the more I seem to like 80's era German cars, or maybe it's just MB and BMW.

Check out this '87 560 SEC on Craigslist, very tempting indeed. : http://sarasota.craigslist.org/cto/1797846104.html

ga_etc
07-28-10, 10:59 AM
Very nice. I think I would have left the amber turn signal lenses though.

orconn
07-28-10, 12:11 PM
That '87 560 SEC is a good looking old coupe ..... and for that price you could afford to take out the engine and trans an put something decent in it! Probably a lot cheaper than trying to maintain those Mercedes components. Back in the 1960's in California, there was a mini fad of replacing the engines and trans on '50s vintage 280S (which were slow as mollasses by the standard of the day) and replacing them with small block American motors. This became an option for Jags too, although for reliabilty reasons rather slowness. Perhaps transforming these old senior Mercedes money pits into reliable, and more cheaply maintained daily drivers.

There is another drawback to the "S" series derived coupes, they are derive from "S" series sedans and still drive like big old German sedans (despite what R&T, et al. would have you believe. There is also the issue of the reliability of all the accessories these old boats come with, they are not cheap to maintain either!

Bro-Ham
07-28-10, 12:23 PM
Comparing W126 to W140 is like comparing 1992 Brougham to 1993 Brougham.

Chad, That's hardly a comparison, the 92 & 93 Cadillacs are the same car under the skin. The 126 was not even closely related to the 140 except for the hood ornament.

orconn
07-28-10, 01:11 PM
Actually BMW's were "historically" classy cars. The brand pre-war (WW II) poduced high performance sport and luxury cars .... as well excellent motorcylces. This continued after World War II and on through the fifties when they broduced big, some would say ugly, luxury sedans and the exquisitely beautiful 505 sports car. In the 1960's they produced luxurious small displacemnt sport sedans and the first of what became theur "6" series coupes. All of these models were expensine and certaily not in the transportation class. Even the 2002 with a sticker price of $2600. (compared to a Toyota Corona's $1900 (1970)price tag was not cheap. Neither were there sporty "Bavaria" sedans. It is ture that they didnot procuce anything comparable to a Mercedes 600 or later on the "S" class but BMWs were certainly not inexpensive performance cars, but have always ranked in price and prestige with Mercedes and Jaguar in prestige in the American market.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-28-10, 05:31 PM
Chad, That's hardly a comparison, the 92 & 93 Cadillacs are the same car under the skin. The 126 was not even closely related to the 140 except for the hood ornament.

Oh yeah, but I meant if you're purely comparing exterior appearances. Much like the W126, the '92 Brougham was designed in about the same era, and appears low, silky and long. Just like when the W140 was redesigned, the '93 Fleetwood looks much bulkier (re: rounded, heavier, taller) than the '92 Broughams.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-28-10, 05:33 PM
There is another drawback to the "S" series derived coupes, they are derive from "S" series sedans and still drive like big old German sedans (despite what R&T, et al. would have you believe. There is also the issue of the reliability of all the accessories these old boats come with, they are not cheap to maintain either!

Well, I wouldn't call them exactly "sporty", but they're more driver oriented than most other full sized luxury coupes, aside from the BMW 6 & 8 Series.

77CDV
07-28-10, 07:06 PM
I'm glad I bought that W140. I wanted to own a high line luxury car for the longest time, and after doing so, I have it out of my system and I can further appreciate my cheaper domestically made cars. I will have another though, when the thought of possibly having to replace a $4,000 A/C evaporator is a little less scary.

I can't imagine any point in life when a $4000 mechanic's bill is less scary in any degree.

hueterm
07-28-10, 07:27 PM
Check out this '87 560 SEC on Craigslist, very tempting indeed. : http://sarasota.craigslist.org/cto/1797846104.html


Bitch, if you buy that... ;-)

hueterm
07-28-10, 07:28 PM
Very nice. I think I would have left the amber turn signal lenses though.


I agree.

Destroyer
07-28-10, 08:08 PM
Bitch, if you buy that... ;-)LOL, I want to but really have no need for it. Love the looks!

Destroyer
07-28-10, 08:12 PM
Probably a lot cheaper than trying to maintain those Mercedes components. Back in the 1960's in California, there was a mini fad of replacing the engines and trans on '50s vintage 280S (which were slow as mollasses by the standard of the day) and replacing them with small block American motors. This became an option for Jags too, although for reliabilty reasons rather slowness. Perhaps transforming these old senior Mercedes money pits into reliable, and more cheaply maintained daily drivers.

There is another drawback to the "S" series derived coupes, they are derive from "S" series sedans and still drive like big old German sedans (despite what R&T, et al. would have you believe. There is also the issue of the reliability of all the accessories these old boats come with, they are not cheap to maintain either!
I looked into doing Chevy conversions on Mercedes. Not much info on that. If you can do the work yourself, the parts really aren't that expensive if you buy them used or on Ebay.

Bro-Ham
07-28-10, 09:05 PM
I can't imagine any point in life when a $4000 mechanic's bill is less scary in any degree.

You're not living until you own a Rolls-Royce and you pick up your car at the dealership after servicing and your bill is 10 or 12 grand. I always wonder if the service cashiers break out in laughter after the customers leave. :)

77CDV
07-28-10, 10:15 PM
Guess I won't be living then! :lol:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-28-10, 10:17 PM
You're not living until you own a Rolls-Royce and you pick up your car at the dealership after servicing and your bill is 10 or 12 grand. I always wonder if the service cashiers break out in laughter after the customers leave. :)

Do they provide you with the Valium at the write up area or at the cashier's desk?

ga_etc
07-28-10, 10:32 PM
You're not living until you own a Rolls-Royce and you pick up your car at the dealership after servicing and your bill is 10 or 12 grand. I always wonder if the service cashiers break out in laughter after the customers leave. :)

I'm starting to understand why you live in Margaritaville Dave.

77CDV
07-28-10, 10:43 PM
Do they provide you with the Valium at the write up area or at the cashier's desk?

Screw the Valium! Bring on the Seconal and Jack Daniels!

Stingroo
07-29-10, 07:40 AM
^ Yeah, he's a pharmacist. He's in the know. lol

Bro-Ham
07-29-10, 08:53 AM
Gotta pay to play. :)

Bro-Ham
07-29-10, 08:56 AM
I should also say I'm in recovery now. :)

Jesda
07-29-10, 09:29 AM
I can't imagine any point in life when a $4000 mechanic's bill is less scary in any degree.

It beats a bill for chemo.

The Seville and the Saab have both had some multi thousand dollar repairs here and there, but they seem to have settled down.

Stingroo
07-29-10, 09:35 AM
It beats a bill for chemo.

True. Dad has chemotherapy once a week. Sometimes you just have to laugh at the bills because they're so stupidly ridiculous.

AlBundy
07-29-10, 02:08 PM
Destroyer, I see your still at it. Nice car. This makes what, number ummmmm 301?

Destroyer
07-29-10, 05:48 PM
Destroyer, I see your still at it. Nice car. This makes what, number ummmmm 301?

I think 200 is only a dozen or two away. :D

Playdrv4me
08-08-10, 09:04 AM
A $4000.00 repair bill is a lot more tolerable when you aren't spending it on a car worth 3 ;)

I've always wondered if there is a way to drive and service a Ferrari that at least keeps you comparable to a high end Merc out of warranty (there ARE modern Ferraris out there with 50, 60, 80k miles on them). I've heard stories of regularly scheduled services on Ferraris in the 15-20k range, but certainly an independent specialist must be able to do that for ~5? Of course, I deal with clients who spend $20,000 on their -watch-, so everything is purely subjective.

Beautiful car Nick. At that price the decision was a no brainer.

Bro-Ham
08-08-10, 09:35 AM
It's a challenge to keep a limited production exotic on the road for anything less than a whole ton of $$$. These cars are made for people who can afford them, but they can also make people with a little bit of money go broke really, really fast. In a ten year period I had 5 Rolls-Royces and one Bentley, I even owned an auto repair shop for most of the time I owned those cars, and while I could buy parts at a discount (they still weren't cheap by any means) and I paid my mechanic a fraction of our shop labor rate, the cars were still time consuming to fix correctly.

Any exotic car expert mechanic or dealership repair shop knows their niche talent and typically charges accordingly. An independent repair shop may know some of the ins and outs although I have seen most of them are guessing half the time on how to make the cars right and, in the end, to get the job done right you have to pay the people who know how to truly do it right. :)

Jags generally aren't so bad but it's still easy to fall in a black hole with one. As noted above, the challenge is not exceeding the value of the car in repair bills. All part of the fun! :)

Destroyer
08-22-10, 09:56 PM
Well, so far so good. The car is behaving splendidly! Behind the wheel, you really start to feel "trust" in the powertrain. We just drove it nearly 500 miles for a summer vacation and the car performed flawlessly in this 95 degree weather. There are things I would have liked in the car like more cup holders and cigarrette lighters but these are small things. I'm still not used to driving this car but love driving it. It's a keeper (at least for a few months, lol). :bouncy:

orconn
08-22-10, 10:59 PM
What is this preoccupation with cupholders and eating in your luxury car! For cripes sake pull into a decent restaurant, or if you are in a hurry a fast food joint and eat or get something to drink. I don't get it, I have had several very nice cars and never allowed eating in any of them. They served me well and looked great when I sold them.

The only time anyone ate or drank in my car was on my first weekend trip with my new bride ...... she managed to dump a medium coke down the gear selector hole in the center console of our brand new Jaguar XJ6. That was the end of food or drink in the car!

I have noticed a certain "portlyness" among some of our younger members, perhaps abstention from food consumtion in the car would help curtail the coming of advanced "middle age" spread!

Just keep telling yourself "Cupholders are for Toyota drivers, for whom their car is just another appliance!"

Bro-Ham
08-22-10, 11:31 PM
Orr, that post is classic! :)

You'd never guess that I eat, drink, smoke an occasional cigar, and many other crazy things that no one would ever know happened based on how clean I keep my cars inside and out. :)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-22-10, 11:55 PM
I try not to eat in my cars if I can. I hate finding pieces of french fries under the seats, rotting away. Of course, in the Astro, I eat all day in there and just vacuum it up twice a month or so.

Jesda
08-23-10, 01:12 AM
I let the dog clean the food out of my interior.

Playdrv4me
08-23-10, 05:09 AM
What is this preoccupation with cupholders and eating in your luxury car!

Cupholders, carhops and drive thrus are what separate Americans from Europeans, and what separates the interstate from the Autobahn. Over there you don't DARE do ANY of the above and your reward is the ability to drive 140mph on the Autobahn anytime you desire. Over here we still get to drive reasonably quickly and have breakfast, lunch and dinner in our rides.

Ralph
08-23-10, 05:11 AM
Whoa, amazing deal!! Love that style of Jag, much better than the new ones IMO and enough wood on the dash to hire it's own forest Ranger

Destroyer
08-23-10, 09:07 AM
What is this preoccupation with cupholders and eating in your luxury car! For cripes sake pull into a decent restaurant, or if you are in a hurry a fast food joint and eat or get something to drink. I don't get it, I have had several very nice cars and never allowed eating in any of them. They served me well and looked great when I sold them.


I agree with you BUT I am not traveling solo. My kids (7 & 10) want plug ins to use their Nintendos, recharge their iPads and so forth. I want more lighter plug ins for my GPS and phone charger. While there is normally no eating in the car, on longer trips we will pack a cooler and snacks. We can't deny them that. Rear cup holders would have been nice, instead there is an spot behind the center console where one COULD put a drink bottle or 2. Problem is that it is not really a cup holder and the cups are not secure. :cool:

Destroyer
08-23-10, 09:10 AM
I have noticed a certain "portlyness" among some of our younger members, perhaps abstention from food consumtion in the car would help curtail the coming of advanced "middle age" spread!

LOL. I could stand to lose a few pounds myself. Perhaps it's because of all the "portlyness" that people drive bigger cars like Cadillacs?

ted tcb
08-23-10, 10:11 AM
No rear cupholders ? ... should've gone VDP with picnic tables:)

I love browsing through the XJ8 section of Jagurar Forums.
Seems like you've got the best year .... plastic tensioners and the like were a thing of
the past by 03 ... if it were mine, I'd just watch the transmission servicing with the occasional
drain and refill.
As a former LS430 owner, I've always felt the classic Jag style slays the LS.
Your car has feminine curves and perfect proportions, whereas my old LS looked bloated from
most angles.
I'll be watching your ownership updates .... I'm sorely tempted to pick up a similar car.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-23-10, 06:01 PM
A friend of mine has at his house an '89 XJ6, and I've gotta say they really improved between '89 and '99. The newer ones look SO much better, have much more power, a much more inviting interior and are probably much better to own overall.

Playdrv4me
08-23-10, 08:06 PM
A friend of mine has at his house an '89 XJ6, and I've gotta say they really improved between '89 and '99. The newer ones look SO much better, have much more power, a much more inviting interior and are probably much better to own overall.

The square headlights on the '80s ones look horrid. Definitely NOT that car's decade.

Destroyer
08-23-10, 09:38 PM
A friend of mine has at his house an '89 XJ6, and I've gotta say they really improved between '89 and '99. The newer ones look SO much better, have much more power, a much more inviting interior and are probably much better to own overall.I never cared much for the styling of those. I loved the older ones and the newer ones but that span of years with the rectangular headlights, I never cared for. Still, I like the car just not the front end. Back in '85-'86 I craved an XJ6 and lusted for the XJS. Jaaaags were always sexy!

Destroyer
08-23-10, 09:48 PM
No rear cupholders ? ... should've gone VDP with picnic tables:)

I love browsing through the XJ8 section of Jagurar Forums.
Seems like you've got the best year .... plastic tensioners and the like were a thing of
the past by 03 ... if it were mine, I'd just watch the transmission servicing with the occasional
drain and refill.
As a former LS430 owner, I've always felt the classic Jag style slays the LS.
Your car has feminine curves and perfect proportions, whereas my old LS looked bloated from
most angles.
I'll be watching your ownership updates .... I'm sorely tempted to pick up a similar car.We really liked the LS430. My wife wanted one bad and that was the car we were on the hunt for. I stumbled across this XJ8 on Craigslist and it really seemed cheap to me (about 1/3 - 1/4 the price of an '03 LS 430). Regardless, it simply looked sexier to me and my wife fell in love with it when she drove it. It isn't as roomy and it doesn't have some of the gadgets found in the Lexus but who the hell cares? It just feels "cool" to drive and drive in. I am glad we did not find a suitable LS430. I see them on the road now and feel they look very bland. They just don't have the presence of the car they copied: the W140 Benz.

Aron9000
08-24-10, 12:14 AM
As far as the LS430 goes, it simply amazes me that people will spend that kind of money on a car they don't even like the look of.

I can see putting up with something ugly if its just basic transit that you only paid a 2-3k for, but people never cease to amaze me with the ugly, boring looking, unispired crap they'll spend a lot of good $$$$ on.

Bro-Ham
08-24-10, 12:56 AM
I hate to say it but my gamble is to set your egg timer because it's only a matter of time.... :)

Playdrv4me
08-24-10, 01:20 AM
As far as the LS430 goes, it simply amazes me that people will spend that kind of money on a car they don't even like the look of.

I can see putting up with something ugly if its just basic transit that you only paid a 2-3k for, but people never cease to amaze me with the ugly, boring looking, unispired crap they'll spend a lot of good $$$$ on.

Having owned every premium luxury car you can shake a stick at, I can say I actually am in the minority who likes the looks of the 2004-2006 LS430 (the '01 to '03 has that stupid Japanese anime car look). After putting up with the worthless E65 7 Series and various Merc products, I can certainly see what would drive people to the LS even if they aren't wild about the car's styling. It gives you 120 percent of the technology and road presence, with the caveat that you get 50 percent of the character... or less. As I've said before, there's only one other vehicle in this price range I'll put up with at the expense of its reliability problems, and that's the 2003 and up Range Rover. I'm still secretly trying to figure out how to turn the LS into one of those, but for now I'm enjoying it. I suppose a 2004 Audi A8 would also fill the bill, but again, I don't want to fix it.

As to your original point though about what people spend their money on... I find this to be more alarming on the LOWER end of the price scale than in the luxury sector. For example, how can anyone pay 17-20k and UP for a brand new Toyota Corolla knowing you could buy anything from a CPO Cadillac DTS, CTS or STS for that kind of money, or an Acura 3.5 RL, or a BMW 3 Series with plenty of warranty. I would love to know WHAT drives people to spend money on NEW SMALL cars. I am not talking about the ones who get rooked into a Sebring or Cobalt because of their credit situations... I mean the ones who genuinely seek out and pay retail for these cars new. I will never ever understand it. I am beginning to believe it is literally a matter of self oppression. i.e. they literally believe they don't yet deserve anything better than an econobox yet, and like their parents insist on driving the economy car first, then the middle luxury Buick, and then the Cadillac when they're the boss.

Bro-Ham
08-24-10, 01:26 AM
I like the Lexus for the appliance-like reliability but that's it. Try a Rolls and you'll begin to appreciate those appliances. But for romance, there is no better self injurious behavior than a British barge. :)

Playdrv4me
08-24-10, 01:30 AM
I like the Lexus for the appliance-like reliability but that's it. Try a Rolls and you'll begin to appreciate those appliances. But for romance, there is no better self injurious behavior than a British barge. :)

Well, that is why I like the Range Rover. Sure it may not be "british" anymore, but its still made there and inspired by british design. My 2003 RR was the most delicately and sumptuously appointed vehicle I EVER owned, and the connolly hides smelled the best to boot.

Bro-Ham
08-24-10, 01:33 AM
I don't think I can appreciate your pleasure and pain until you step up to a vintage Rolls or Bentley. Then you will truly know. :)

ted tcb
08-24-10, 10:50 AM
Ian, I really liked the straight on, front end view of my LS430. To my eyes, it was a very commanding, high end
design. What I found out of proportion was the really high roofline viewed from the side, and the back end had
a rather plain, M-B look to it.
Proportionally, my 2000 LS400 was near perfect ... I just found the interior on that car looked dated, almost the
same as the 1990 LS400. Also, the 2000 car had the worst automotive rims I've ever seen on a high end car.
Criticism of the LS430's interior, I just don't get.
I found the interior to be the nicest of any car I've ever sat in ... every little nuance was well thought through.
Tons of leather, suede, and deep, lusterous wood.
Hardest thing for me was to come back to my 2003 STS' interior, where panels didn't line up, the Zebrano looked
dated, dash pad was lifting, seats were uncomfortable, armrest squeaked, etc.
Still, the STS cost about $8k, and my 04 LS cost about $23k .... both cars retailed for about the same money
when new.
Makes the STS the better used buy.

I'm tired of the STS ... having owned 5 of them, I'm looking for something different.
Now that I no longer commute, I would buy the right XJ8.
The style is unbelievable, a great take on a classic design.
The interior is second to none ... maybe not in terms of workmanship, but certainly in terms of
materials and uniqueness.

For commuting purposes, the LS created a tranquil oasis, removing the driver from the daily drudgery of
traffic jams and deteriorating road systems. On my days off, I prefer to put the top down and row through
the gears on my cheap, 20 yr old Miata.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n243/tedtcb/P1050254.jpg

The Miata can be considered crude transportation ... its tiny, you feel every bump, the exhaust is kind of loud,
you get the odd whiff of fuel vapours, I have the occasional syncro crunch, etc.
But, its the most fun a car owner can have at legal speeds on city streets.
116 hp and 2100lbs means its not fast, yet you're always grinning as you keep that short throw gearbox
up around 5000rpms. It corners with no body roll, has perfect weight distribution, and the back end can
be encouraged to break away when downshifting on tight corners.
An added bonus it that these little cars pretty much refuse to break, they just keep on ticking.

Re the Rolls Royce, there's a guy on the Jaguar boards who was tiring of his 1994 RR.
He was considering trading it for a 2008/09 VandenPlas.

The RR cost him about $15k to drive a few miles over a few years. He owned his own garage, so labour was cut rate.
The cost of parts killed him ... over $6000 for an instrument panel part, over $2000 for a door lock assembly, etc.
He said it was the only car he ever owned that would break down while sitting in it's own garage.
The point made was that if you bought a car new for $200,000, then $15k in repairs isn't too bad.
When you buy that same car used for, say $35k, then $15k is crazy.
I guess the price of parts goes hand in hand with limited production, proprietary car parts.
The RR owner considered the 2008 Jag to be a used car bargain ... reliable, luxurious, and dirt cheap.
Its all in one's perspective.

Destroyer
08-24-10, 11:27 PM
Ian, I really liked the straight on, front end view of my LS430. To my eyes, it was a very commanding, high end
design. What I found out of proportion was the really high roofline viewed from the side, and the back end had
a rather plain, M-B look to it.
Proportionally, my 2000 LS400 was near perfect ... I just found the interior on that car looked dated, almost the
same as the 1990 LS400. Also, the 2000 car had the worst automotive rims I've ever seen on a high end car.
Criticism of the LS430's interior, I just don't get.
I found the interior to be the nicest of any car I've ever sat in ... every little nuance was well thought through.
Tons of leather, suede, and deep, lusterous wood.
Hardest thing for me was to come back to my 2003 STS' interior, where panels didn't line up, the Zebrano looked
dated, dash pad was lifting, seats were uncomfortable, armrest squeaked, etc.
Still, the STS cost about $8k, and my 04 LS cost about $23k .... both cars retailed for about the same money
when new.
Makes the STS the better used buy.

I'm tired of the STS ... having owned 5 of them, I'm looking for something different.
Now that I no longer commute, I would buy the right XJ8.
The style is unbelievable, a great take on a classic design.
The interior is second to none ... maybe not in terms of workmanship, but certainly in terms of
materials and uniqueness.

For commuting purposes, the LS created a tranquil oasis, removing the driver from the daily drudgery of
traffic jams and deteriorating road systems. On my days off, I prefer to put the top down and row through
the gears on my cheap, 20 yr old Miata.

http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n243/tedtcb/P1050254.jpg

The Miata can be considered crude transportation ... its tiny, you feel every bump, the exhaust is kind of loud,
you get the odd whiff of fuel vapours, I have the occasional syncro crunch, etc.
But, its the most fun a car owner can have at legal speeds on city streets.
116 hp and 2100lbs means its not fast, yet you're always grinning as you keep that short throw gearbox
up around 5000rpms. It corners with no body roll, has perfect weight distribution, and the back end can
be encouraged to break away when downshifting on tight corners.
An added bonus it that these little cars pretty much refuse to break, they just keep on ticking.

Re the Rolls Royce, there's a guy on the Jaguar boards who was tiring of his 1994 RR.
He was considering trading it for a 2008/09 VandenPlas.

The RR cost him about $15k to drive a few miles over a few years. He owned his own garage, so labour was cut rate.
The cost of parts killed him ... over $6000 for an instrument panel part, over $2000 for a door lock assembly, etc.
He said it was the only car he ever owned that would break down while sitting in it's own garage.
The point made was that if you bought a car new for $200,000, then $15k in repairs isn't too bad.
When you buy that same car used for, say $35k, then $15k is crazy.
I guess the price of parts goes hand in hand with limited production, proprietary car parts.
The RR owner considered the 2008 Jag to be a used car bargain ... reliable, luxurious, and dirt cheap.
Its all in one's perspective.Ted, you and I would get along just fine. I was in Sarasota today (Long Boat Key) , lol. I think the LS430 is an awesome car. Your interpretation of it is spot on. Great interior, exterior is, well, lets just say "Clark Kent" instead of "Superman". Regardless, I would be proud to have one in my driveway. Still, Lexus cars (to me) will never hold any prestige. Being a clone warrior will get you places but you wont be noticed. I also had a Miata, 1997 model. Loved that Miata even though I am too big for it. I've had Vette's, Porsches's and everything else under the sun, the Miata is the most amazing handling car of all time!!!!!!!!!!!

Bro-Ham
08-25-10, 12:52 AM
Re the Rolls Royce, there's a guy on the Jaguar boards who was tiring of his 1994 RR.
He was considering trading it for a 2008/09 VandenPlas.

The RR cost him about $15k to drive a few miles over a few years. He owned his own garage, so labour was cut rate.
The cost of parts killed him ... over $6000 for an instrument panel part, over $2000 for a door lock assembly, etc.
He said it was the only car he ever owned that would break down while sitting in it's own garage.
The point made was that if you bought a car new for $200,000, then $15k in repairs isn't too bad.
When you buy that same car used for, say $35k, then $15k is crazy.
I guess the price of parts goes hand in hand with limited production, proprietary car parts.
The RR owner considered the 2008 Jag to be a used car bargain ... reliable, luxurious, and dirt cheap.
Its all in one's perspective.

Gotta pay to play. There is noting more expensive than a cheap Rolls.

I'm trying to think of a $6k instrument part or why a door latch would need to be replaced unless the car was beaten or used hard. 1994 was the first year of revised engine management and electronics for Rolls and Bentley, plus very few were produced, same for 1995, mostly due to the unwillingness of many well to do folks to pay the onerous U.S. luxury tax imposed by the democrats eager to punish the rich - the only people punished were the companies that made and employed people at high end luxury car manufacturers, yacht makers, etc. 1994 and 1995 RR's and Bentleys are rare and the electronics are particularly expensive to repair or replace and problems are harder to diagnose on the cars up to the Silver Seraph, so mechanics need to be factory trained experts and those who are not but are "parts replacers" will be soaked fixing themselves or soak their customers.

A 1987 to 1993 RR or Bentley, well maintained by experts, with a telephone book sized service history would be the car to have, and yes, of necessity with any exotic car, a small fortune would have been invested to keep the car in that condition, and those are the sublime cars that a buyer would want because you can drive and drive. A poorly maintained RR, or mechanic's special, will always be a nightmare because there are always previous owners who deferred maintenance and repairs and those cars usually have no history and will cost an arm, leg, and major organ to get in shape for reasonably trouble free use.

With a proper Rolls the pleasure is priceless and the prestige and impressiveness is unmatched. Jags are nice although they are fancy for cheap, but they work for people who desire flash for little cash and are unable or unwilling to dive into the world of true exotic ultra luxury cars. :)

Playdrv4me
08-25-10, 12:58 AM
Rolls and Bentley are great cars, but they're nothing more than an extension of VW and BMW now. You can have 9/10ths the Continental Flying Spur experience for example, in an A8 or Phaeton for a fraction of the price. Yea there's a lot of wood and leather, but I probably wouldn't feel after a few months of driving that I really got my money's worth with a chassis used on so many different cars.

Classic RRs and Bentleys are a much more intriguing proposition, but not as a daily driver. For my 150 to 200k I would probably buy the most Ferrari I possibly could, and still have an LS430, STS or Range Rover as a DD.

Playdrv4me
08-25-10, 01:07 AM
The RR owner considered the 2008 Jag to be a used car bargain ... reliable, luxurious, and dirt cheap.
Its all in one's perspective.

I would have to absolutely agree with this, even without coming from a Rolls.

The 2004 and up Jaguar XJ "Super V8", Vanden Plas, and XJR have got to be THE best value in used cars right now if you want that truly classic british motoring feel and interior appointment. Had there been one of these nearby to the midwest, I think we absolutely would have gone that route. They are an absolute BARGAIN for what you receive (supercharged V8s, acres of wood, picnic tables and the like depending on model).

Aron9000
08-25-10, 04:51 PM
So what are those shag rugs in Vanden Plas Jags and Rolls Royce cars made of??? Feels like some sort of dead animal:cloud9:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-25-10, 06:20 PM
Sheepskin IIRC. It's wonderful.

Playdrv4me
08-25-10, 07:56 PM
So what are those shag rugs in Vanden Plas Jags and Rolls Royce cars made of??? Feels like some sort of dead animal:cloud9:

Funny thing about the "Vanden Plas" that forever etched that car into my mind was the ad I once saw for an XJ. This enterprising individual in attempting to describe the trim level, called it a "Vander Plus".

ted tcb
08-25-10, 08:54 PM
Bro-ham, I was quoting strictly from memory, so I checked out the Jag forums, not wanting to trust my aging memory:)
Turns out the car was a 1994 RR Silver Spur III.
You could very well be correct in assuming it may have been a neglected basket case, because the owner spent
around $15k sorting out electronic and hydraulic issues.
This was the comment about an instrument part and door lock part which I made reference to:


"The problem now is that you can buy a 15 year old $212,000 RR now for $30-35K, but repairs are still for a $212K car. For example, the driver's information display (odometer, warning lights) runs about $6K just for the part. The door lock control runs $2524 not including installation, and ETC."

If the above mentioned figures are correct, then I'm amazed at the crazy lack of value in replacement parts.
Heck, I'd likely dump my STS if I needed HG's fixed, and that's a rather paltry $2k repair that involves dropping
the motor.
I guess I'll never be purchasing a used RR .... but a Jag, different story.
I still cannot get over how much car Destroyer received for such a small sum of cash.
Envious .... you bet, but I'm pleased for him.

ted tcb
08-25-10, 08:56 PM
Funny thing about the "Vanden Plas" that forever etched that car into my mind was the ad I once saw for an XJ. This enterprising individual in attempting to describe the trim level, called it a "Vander Plus".

Ian, as an aside, I'm really enjoying your posts over on CL.
You've been quite the assest to the Lexus community, helping a young purchaser secure the best
possible car.

Stingroo
08-25-10, 09:18 PM
Funny thing about the "Vanden Plas" that forever etched that car into my mind was the ad I once saw for an XJ. This enterprising individual in attempting to describe the trim level, called it a "Vander Plus".

http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/cto/1917233053.html

This "enterprising individual" has yours beat, Ian.

Playdrv4me
08-25-10, 09:24 PM
http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/cto/1917233053.html

This "enterprising individual" has yours beat, Ian.

O...M...G. That was epic! I almost fell out of my chair.

Stingroo
08-25-10, 10:47 PM
You're welcome. lol

Playdrv4me
08-25-10, 11:12 PM
Ian, as an aside, I'm really enjoying your posts over on CL.
You've been quite the assest to the Lexus community, helping a young purchaser secure the best
possible car.

You sneaky son of a gun! What is your handle over there?

ga_etc
08-25-10, 11:25 PM
http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/cto/1917233053.html

This "enterprising individual" has yours beat, Ian.

I love how I get no credit for the link...

Stingroo
08-25-10, 11:30 PM
Disclaimer: Austin found it and showed it to me. I don't live anywhere near Chattanooga.

Lol

ga_etc
08-25-10, 11:32 PM
Disclaimer: Austin found it and showed it to me. I don't live anywhere near Chattanooga.

Lol

That's better. LOL

Bro-Ham
08-25-10, 11:38 PM
The overlays are lambswool - in a RR they are several times thicker, softer, and more lush than those in a Jaguar Vanden Plas. The carpets in a RR are wool as well, bound in leather. Nothing finer. :)

Any way you slice owning and maintaining a RR, they are not cheap and if you're looking for economy and the British luxury look then a Jag will be your answer. Jags have proliferating plastic and RR's are the real thing with quality at hand everywhere you look. RR's are upright and formal and not as sexy as a Jag but that's the point. When you study the two side by side you will immediately understand the difference.

There is nothing wrong with a Jag - they are awesome cars, but you are comparing apples and oranges when you bring the RR into the equation, especially the Crewe built old school cars. I can't help but to pant so loudly for the RR's because they are like the best of poisons or illegal substances - the epitome of all out full senses pleasure in the luxury car game. :)

Playdrv4me
08-25-10, 11:45 PM
The overlays are lambswool - in a RR they are several times thicker, softer, and more lush than those in a Jaguar Vanden Plas. The carpets in a RR are wool as well, bound in leather. Nothing finer. :)

Any way you slice owning and maintaining a RR, they are not cheap and if you're looking for economy and the British luxury look then a Jag will be your answer. Jags have proliferating plastic and RR's are the real thing with quality at hand everywhere you look. RR's are upright and formal and not as sexy as a Jag but that's the point. When you study the two side by side you will immediately understand the difference.

There is nothing wrong with a Jag - they are awesome cars, but you are comparing apples and oranges when you bring the RR into the equation, especially the Crewe built old school cars. I can't help but to pant so loudly for the RR's because they are like the best of poisons or illegal substances - the epitome of all out full senses pleasure in the luxury car game. :)

I understand where you are coming from (and a similar experience I have trying to explain the virtues of the Range Rover to others), but its like a guy who posted over on the LS forum that said that the only reason people were knocking the LS460 is because economic reasons kept them away from the newer car... nonsense. It really isn't anywhere near as good as the LS430, and the LS400 before that, just because it has more technology and power.

Likewise, unless I had enough spare cash to own the classic Rolls AND other things, I wouldn't want to drive that around every single day. Besides, the point is to be DRIVEN around in those anyway isn't it? At that point the motoring part of owning a car kind of disappears. I would still need something more "plebian" to drive every day and if I loved all of the virtues of the Rolls, the Jag Vanden Plas or Super V8 would absolutely be my first choice. Then I'd also have to own some kind of exotic sporting car for the visceral experience. The interior of a true Italian sports car is difficult to compare to anything else, even leaving aside the speed.

It's not like I haven't been in both classic and modern Rolls', and I still feel that the Jag is a better daily drive regardless of cost. You definitely trade off the over the top materials quality though, no doubt.

Bro-Ham
08-26-10, 12:00 AM
I've treated myself, and simultaneously tortured myself, with a RR as a daily driver for 10 years. I've gone bald and my remaining hair is nearly gray yet I wouldn't have traded the RR experience for all the tea in China, and if I live a shorter life at least it will have been a good one. If you are looking for the bespoke over the top performance luxury car driving experience then you need to treat yourself to a Bentley Turbo R. Don't drink and drive with one because the euphoria will either kill you or land you in jail for a long, long time. If you do survive, after that, you'll never buy into the illusion of any Jaguar, supercharged or not. :)

Stingroo
08-26-10, 12:42 PM
Since we're talking about uber cool Rolls Royces, I submit the following:

http://www.1aauto.com/static/nutts-and-bolts/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/rollsroyce2.jpg

Aron9000
08-26-10, 01:54 PM
Since we're talking about uber cool Rolls Royces, I submit the following:

http://www.1aauto.com/static/nutts-and-bolts/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/rollsroyce2.jpg

Is that a vinyl top I spot???? I thought all the Silver Shadows had metal roofs.:suspect:

ga_etc
08-26-10, 02:09 PM
That's awesome.

Stingroo
08-26-10, 03:01 PM
I would drive the sh*t out of a car like that.

And it'd be more reliable and cheaper to fix than a regular RR. :lol:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-26-10, 06:48 PM
That's wrong on so many levels. A Rolls Royce is the ultimate in intelligent, quiet, bespoke luxury. It whispers, it doesn't scream. Putting that engine and those wheels into a classic Rolls is just wrong.

Stingroo
08-26-10, 07:17 PM
Nah. That's perfect to my eyes. I would have the best time in the world with that. Gas prices be damned! (Actually, here they aren't that bad! I paid $2.54 the other day :) )

orconn
08-26-10, 08:03 PM
That looks like the "Rapper's Revenge" model! In the late nineteen seventies one of the senior "Silver Shadow" models did come with a vinyl roof. I don't recall the name of the specific model, I remember seing them around L.A. during those yeares. There were some other modifications also. Bro-Ham would probably know the name and specifications,

Bro-Ham
08-26-10, 08:03 PM
Is that a vinyl top I spot???? I thought all the Silver Shadows had metal roofs.:suspect:

Long Wheelbase Silver Shadows and Silver Wraith II had vinyl top standard, the material is called Everflex. The regular wheelbase Silver Shadow had the Everflex available although most were made with the steel roof. :)

hueterm
08-26-10, 09:11 PM
A RR donk....omg...

ga_etc
08-26-10, 09:13 PM
It's not 2 feet off the ground. Not a donk. ;)

Stingroo
08-26-10, 09:40 PM
A RR donk....omg...

Sir what I posted is FAR from a donk.

Though the idea of one terrifies me.

Destroyer
08-26-10, 11:18 PM
That's wrong on so many levels. A Rolls Royce is the ultimate in intelligent, quiet, bespoke luxury. It whispers, it doesn't scream. Putting that engine and those wheels into a classic Rolls is just wrong.

If that is wrong, I don't wanna be right!:cool2:

Stingroo
08-26-10, 11:52 PM
If that is wrong, I don't wanna be right!:cool2:

You and me both. :lol:

Aron9000
08-27-10, 01:55 AM
A RR donk....omg...

Yeah, not a donk. I'd call it a pro-street Rolls Royce, and I would love to drive that to the Pebble Beach Concourse D'Elegance and cover the crowd in tire smoke from the most epic burnout ever.

Playdrv4me
08-27-10, 03:18 AM
I have to admit, I like that.

hueterm
08-27-10, 08:10 AM
I'm not that familiar w/all the street verbiage, but if it's lowered and has those big ass out of place wheels, to me, = donk. I'm not sure how the "out the hood" engine impacts the accuracy of that term, however. And also the fact that it is only one exterior color....I may be stretching it....:bigroll:

Destroyer
08-27-10, 10:16 AM
I'm not that familiar w/all the street verbiage, but if it's lowered and has those big ass out of place wheels, to me, = donk. I'm not sure how the "out the hood" engine impacts the accuracy of that term, however. And also the fact that it is only one exterior color....I may be stretching it....:bigroll:
This is pro street. Donks (what a word) are those lifted cars with HUGE wheels and crazy paint jobs. It is automotive expression at it's worse.

pual0101
08-27-10, 02:46 PM
nice

ga_etc
08-27-10, 05:14 PM
This is pro street. Donks (what a word) are those lifted cars with HUGE wheels and crazy paint jobs. It is automotive expression at it's worse.

Mike, this is a DONK. http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/cto/1885509290.html What a waste of a perfectly good Cutlass.

Destroyer
08-27-10, 09:52 PM
Mike, this is a DONK. http://chattanooga.craigslist.org/cto/1885509290.html What a waste of a perfectly good Cutlass.I've seen much worse than that. Witness:

http://tampa.craigslist.org/hil/cto/1911290166.html

http://tampa.craigslist.org/psc/cto/1845186711.html

Stingroo
08-27-10, 10:07 PM
That Cadillac doesn't look like it was lifted. All it needs is a set of stock wheels and you're good to go.

And ew, the chick next to it. Ew.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-28-10, 08:53 AM
It must really suck to live in Florida and see all those donks all the time.

hueterm
08-28-10, 09:00 AM
+1.......

Bro-Ham
08-28-10, 11:08 AM
I don't think I've seen one of those aweful cars in Sarasota. :)

Stingroo
08-28-10, 11:25 AM
Lucky you. lol

I~LUV~Caddys8792
08-28-10, 12:07 PM
Is Sarasota like the richest big city in Florida? It sure sounds like it.

Stingroo
08-28-10, 01:30 PM
I'm not sure. I know Jacksonville is the largest city in FL in terms of size and population, and I know there's a LOT of money here floating around. Same with Miami, a lot of cash there too.

Bro-Ham
08-28-10, 02:23 PM
Chad, Sarasota is more of a resort area and less urban, so there is lots of money but also not many people with no money. :)

Destroyer
08-28-10, 10:16 PM
Is Sarasota like the richest big city in Florida? It sure sounds like it.

Sarasota was one of the hardest hit counties as far as the real estate boom goes. Sarasota is a great place but like any other place in Florida it more than has it's fair share of white trash. :suspect:

Bro-Ham
08-28-10, 10:33 PM
Sarasota was one of the hardest hit counties as far as the real estate boom goes. Sarasota is a great place but like any other place in Florida it more than has it's fair share of white trash. :suspect:

Not sure where you live, of course there are pockets of blight everywhere, I'd say there are far less of them in Sarasota than other Florida communities from what I've seen. I think desirable Sarasota real estate never declined as much, and has recovered far better, than what I've seen in the greater Tampa Bay area and Ft. Myers as far as FL Gulf coast communities go. Come to Sarasota if you're in search of a better way of life. Ghetto is on the far fringes where it should be. I think you know that. :)

Destroyer
08-28-10, 11:00 PM
Not sure where you live, of course there are pockets of blight everywhere, I'd say there are far less of them in Sarasota than other Florida communities from what I've seen. I think desirable Sarasota real estate never declined as much, and has recovered far better, than what I've seen in the greater Tampa Bay area and Ft. Myers as far as FL Gulf coast communities go. Come to Sarasota if you're in search of a better way of life. Ghetto is on the far fringes where it should be. I think you know that. :)I'm in Boot Ranch, Palm Harbor. Like I said, Sarasota is a great place. Sarasota is desireable but, like the Tampa Area does not have enough jobs or infrastructure to support growth. Sarasota actually has less. I actually looked for months to find a home there a few years ago (when prices were very high) but found an nice "mini-mansion" here in Pinellas county for a good price so I stayed here. I'm a hop and skip away from Sarasota and work brings me there all the time. I don't see anything all that impressive or different there. I'm actually looking to maybe move back to New York after 18 years in Florida.

hueterm
08-28-10, 11:04 PM
Ugh....that little thing called "winter" will be a bitch to get used to again.........

Playdrv4me
08-29-10, 01:14 AM
Is Sarasota like the richest big city in Florida? It sure sounds like it.

That would be Naples. More of an enclave.

Destroyer
08-29-10, 10:31 AM
Ugh....that little thing called "winter" will be a bitch to get used to again.........Yeah, I know but this heat and humidity are getting old. Plus, for some reason, the years seem to go faster here. I remember craving spring/summer in NY, now I have it all year. It's like there is nothing to look forward too.

Bro-Ham
08-29-10, 01:00 PM
I'm in Boot Ranch, Palm Harbor. Like I said, Sarasota is a great place. Sarasota is desireable but, like the Tampa Area does not have enough jobs or infrastructure to support growth. Sarasota actually has less. I actually looked for months to find a home there a few years ago (when prices were very high) but found an nice "mini-mansion" here in Pinellas county for a good price so I stayed here. I'm a hop and skip away from Sarasota and work brings me there all the time. I don't see anything all that impressive or different there. I'm actually looking to maybe move back to New York after 18 years in Florida.

You'd have a hard time selling me on Pinellas county or anywhere up there. :)

Just some quick facts to clear the air: Sarasota has no real businesses, other than Chris-Craft and nominal other minor industries except for tourism, medical, and government.

Sarasota has a far more resort-like feel with many residents living and visiting only in the winter. Unlike the greater bay area, Sarasota moves at a slower pace with no hustle and bustle except for people rushing to and from the keys during cocktail hour in high season (Feb-April) or out to the beach or country club. :)

In Sarasota there is the highest concentration of arts than anywhere in the state including galleries, museums, music, and theater. Two of the top beaches in the world are in Sarasota, including Siesta Key Beach.

There are lots of folks who are midwest transplants who value a good way of life and I've always found it comfortable. No place is perfect although the lack of unemployed riff-raff and freaks in Sarasota makes me like it even more. Plus, there are two very cool beer bars. :)

I always find myself checking to be sure my car doors are locked when I drive through just about any part of St. Pete and most of Pinellas County or the Tampa Bay area as a whole. I go to school in Pinellas Park and have many friends in St. Pete and it's fun to party up there but driving my yellow 79 Cadillac through the various neighborhoods to get there makes me thankful for my bullet proof 425 V8 that has good odds for not breaking down. :)

There are downsides to Sarasota. I'm regarded as a young guy since many peole are living the retired good life and almost everyone is older than me, by a lot. :) While I do like the lack of drama the flip side is that it can get a little boring, especially off season. In an hour I can be across the Sunshine Skyway visiting friends and having cocktails in St. Pete. Same for if I want to go south to Nipples for a cocktail or three or a three hours to visit the hot spots on the east coast of Florida. I'm not sure I could be patient enough to ever live in any of these other places in FL though, even with a steady intravenous vodka drip. :)

Destroyer
08-29-10, 09:07 PM
You'd have a hard time selling me on Pinellas county or anywhere up there. :)

Just some quick facts to clear the air: Sarasota has no real businesses, other than Chris-Craft and nominal other minor industries except for tourism, medical, and government.

Sarasota has a far more resort-like feel with many residents living and visiting only in the winter. Unlike the greater bay area, Sarasota moves at a slower pace with no hustle and bustle except for people rushing to and from the keys during cocktail hour in high season (Feb-April) or out to the beach or country club. :)

In Sarasota there is the highest concentration of arts than anywhere in the state including galleries, museums, music, and theater. Two of the top beaches in the world are in Sarasota, including Siesta Key Beach.

There are lots of folks who are midwest transplants who value a good way of life and I've always found it comfortable. No place is perfect although the lack of unemployed riff-raff and freaks in Sarasota makes me like it even more. Plus, there are two very cool beer bars. :)

I always find myself checking to be sure my car doors are locked when I drive through just about any part of St. Pete and most of Pinellas County or the Tampa Bay area as a whole. I go to school in Pinellas Park and have many friends in St. Pete and it's fun to party up there but driving my yellow 79 Cadillac through the various neighborhoods to get there makes me thankful for my bullet proof 425 V8 that has good odds for not breaking down. :)

There are downsides to Sarasota. I'm regarded as a young guy since many peole are living the retired good life and almost everyone is older than me, by a lot. :) While I do like the lack of drama the flip side is that it can get a little boring, especially off season. In an hour I can be across the Sunshine Skyway visiting friends and having cocktails in St. Pete. Same for if I want to go south to Nipples for a cocktail or three or a three hours to visit the hot spots on the east coast of Florida. I'm not sure I could be patient enough to ever live in any of these other places in FL though, even with a steady intravenous vodka drip. :)If Pinellas Park is your idea of Pinellas county it's no wonder you don't like it. I don't go there much as I feel it si the bottom of the barrel area of the county (most that occupy that space would be better off dead) along side South Saint Pete. Where I'm at it's a completely different story. I owned apartment buildings in NE Saint Pete, only blocks away from the Pier and loved that area but still would not move there. Funny you mention Siesta Key Beach. I was there today with the wife and kids for the first time and it was a great beach. Not better than Pinellas beaches though, about the equivalent of Clearwater Beach, maybe one step down overall (no shops and stores). We stopped at Venice Beach first and thought it sucked big time, Siesta was a different story. I love Florida but miss New York. If I can sell my residence I would move back.

Your whole story as to why Sarasota is better are the reasons I'd rather be here. I am a city slicker at heart. I don't like "boring" and I don't like living in areas widely and largely occupied by gray heads. There is a time for that but not yet, not now. For retirement I would consider Sarasota, Venice or Fort Myers but not now, no way!!!