: Collaboration of ideas about Superchargers on FWD Northstar



GizmoQ
07-11-10, 12:24 PM
I would like to start a thread for all those considering Supercharging Front Wheel Drive Northstars. I know of at least three of us are considering it and would like to get us and other tech-savvy forum members involved in a collaborative effort to discuss these ideas, issues, status, tips and tricks, etc.

For example, 97EldoCoupe is looking at fabbing from the ground up:

I have a custom built roots-style supercharger in mind that needs to be built from scratch. A new aluminum cast design; much like the LC3 of the V series. The new casting would include a lubrication/hydraulic pump that also takes place of the power steering pump. This self-contained unit would replace the P/S pump and intake manifold. The two issues I have with this is the precision machining of the casting, and the casting. It sure would be a nice little unit if I could work together with the right companies.

Starting with a new supercharger from scratch would allow one to choose the displacement, and the RPM and pulley size for the required CFM.

An integrated intercooler would be a nice touch; like the V-Series. But without a few million dollars in engineering and equipment costs; that's not exactly feasible. I'll still look into the custom unit but a bolt-on Eaton M-series S/C would probably be the best bet.


Whereas, I am modifying an existing design (one off a Tsion TC), but we're both going to remove the power steering pump. I've found some eletric steering pumps but would love to hear his comments on their fit and function or if he has a better idea.

My build will be hobbyist-style: low cost, minimal expertise required, no internal mods, 6-8lbs of boost. But I will need a tech to tune it for me.


What do you guys think? It would be great to all help each other and then bring the two or three together next year at AJ's or 97EldoCoupe's shop for a group test and tune.

Ranger
07-11-10, 12:58 PM
I think it was Mark99sts that did it, but it cost him well over $10,000.

GizmoQ
07-11-10, 01:19 PM
I think it was Mark99sts that did it, but it cost him well over $10,000.

He did turbos. Eldo, AJ, and I are working on three different designs for superchargers.

Ranger
07-11-10, 01:43 PM
Ahh, I missed that. Good luck.

Warmarshall2nd
07-11-10, 03:32 PM
Well... I'm interested, but I don't know anything. So I guess that rules me out. I'll be keeping an eye on this, however:yup:

97EldoCoupe
07-11-10, 03:55 PM
I'm moving/starting up a new shop. The place I had in mind to purchase at first had 105 acres and enough land to pave a test strip/drag strip. It was in the Red River flood area so I chose not to buy.

The place I'm looking at now has 7 acres and a 4032 sq. ft. shop and is only 10 minutes from the USA/North Dakota.

I think I would have to meet you all in the USA but if everyone wanted to; I would make my shop available for a day or weekend or something and throw a BBQ/Cadillac show and shine-

The S/C I want to build requires machining and engineering that I may not be capable of doing. I have the ideas in my mind but to transfer them into a machined chunk of cast aluminum with all the right clearances for a set of rotors; would involve an outside company's help. Anyone work at Eaton? Please? Anyone? Hello?

Sure would be nice; an instant bolt-on 120+HP. What about compression? Could a person keep the stock 10.3/10.0:1 compression and just back off on the boost a bit? Would that not have the same effect as a lower C.R. + more boost? Volumetrically speaking I believe it would have; but The A/F mix heats up on the compression stroke so I guess more force-fed, cool air from the blower would be better-

The less necessary modifications to the shortblock; the better the S/C kit would be... And intercooling sould help substancially and would be worth the effort.

miwise
07-11-10, 07:43 PM
I have a saleen kit on my 99 mustang gt producing 8psi boost. It gets really temperamental in the summertime because ivehad intercooler issues out the arse. I'd love to see a supercharged sts. Would bea real sleeper. :-). I would doubt it would be a reliable daily driver though. I know my mustang throws fits in the summertime here in hot humid Louisiana.

98eldo32v
07-12-10, 03:49 AM
Interesting about the supercharger option.

Unfortunately most northstars will need headgaskets done anyway, so if there was a head gasket specifically made thicker to lower the compression ratio great.

Then superchargering the motor, if you aren't studding heads for this, then you might reconsider the thought of even thinking about the idea. If it's lifting the bolts naturally aspirated, what do you think a couple pounds of boost is going to do?

The way the intake bolts to the heads, I think a supercharger like on the Buick Park Ave's or Pontiac Bonnevilles will have to be fabricated.

Loosing the power steering....... don't like that. The nose of the charger that houses the drive pulley would have to be fabricated to try to keep the power steering without making the supercharger too bulky to fit on the motor if possible.

If the steering eventaully had to be ditched, oh well...... it's all in the need for speed......

GizmoQ
07-12-10, 12:22 PM
Interesting about the supercharger option.

Unfortunately most northstars will need headgaskets done anyway, so if there was a head gasket specifically made thicker to lower the compression ratio great.

Then superchargering the motor, if you aren't studding heads for this, then you might reconsider the thought of even thinking about the idea. If it's lifting the bolts naturally aspirated, what do you think a couple pounds of boost is going to do?

The way the intake bolts to the heads, I think a supercharger like on the Buick Park Ave's or Pontiac Bonnevilles will have to be fabricated.

Loosing the power steering....... don't like that. The nose of the charger that houses the drive pulley would have to be fabricated to try to keep the power steering without making the supercharger too bulky to fit on the motor if possible.

If the steering eventaully had to be ditched, oh well...... it's all in the need for speed......


I dont plan to ditch the power steering, just move it to an electric one on the firewall.

IXSLR8
07-12-10, 02:50 PM
The heads don't lift under boost when you insert or stud them properly. You can get multilayered custom gaskets made by Cometic for the early 1995=99 Northstars. I have a set on mine.

Cadillac Hotrod Fabricators builds boosted N* and they seem to be reliable.

For the early N*s, I was thinking about an Eaton style supercharger with the pulley placement where the power steering pump is presently. In addition to that, it looks to me that you may be able to save some roof space by turning an Eaton supercharger upside down and make an intake go over the top of the charger. The Northstar has a large open cavity between the heads that we might be able to take advantage of. At least that was my thought. Otherwise an Alternator size charger would be the easiest in the A/C location perhaps.

I have also seen a supercharger run off a long shaft along the front valve cover between the intake and valve cover. A pulley was on the shaft at each end. The throttle body area had a charger next to it with a belt from that long shaft.

Submariner409
07-12-10, 03:15 PM
We'll need someone to cast and machine a low-boy intake manifold with port injector bosses - even modifications to the present glass/plastic manifold would never allow it to stand up to blower torque at the drive pulley and the blower snout downforce from drive belt tension.

One of CHFABs blower manifolds might work, but that's hood bump/scoop territory, and I think those manifolds are for GM blowers.

GizmoQ
07-12-10, 10:17 PM
I have also seen a supercharger run off a long shaft along the front valve cover between the intake and valve cover. A pulley was on the shaft at each end. The throttle body area had a charger next to it with a belt from that long shaft.

That's almost exactly my plan. Where can I contact this guy? I'm having one hell of a time getting someone to fab up me an extended driveshaft for my TRD supercharger.

Necrosan
07-13-10, 02:46 AM
What about using the water pump drive pulley to power a supercharger?
Or is that pulley too weak to use?

IXSLR8
07-13-10, 03:58 AM
You may have already seen his approach. I don't think XMS ever finalized. But here's his detailed pics: http://www.angelfire.com/stars/mycaddy/northstarsuperchargerphotos.htm

Here's MechTech's supercharger similar to CHRFAB: http://www.mechtech-ms.com/northstarSupercharger.php

STSS
07-13-10, 10:40 AM
What about using the water pump drive pulley to power a supercharger?
Or is that pulley too weak to use?

Do you really want to run a blower off the end of your cam?

Submariner409
07-13-10, 10:57 AM
..............and remember that a camshaft in a 4-cycle engine turns at half crankshaft rpm, so the blower drive pulley on the cam would have to be huge while the pulley on the blower snout would be tiny in order to accomplish the blower drive rpm stepup.

ibm4mad
07-14-10, 04:45 AM
If you get one working, don't forget to beef up your motor mounts. Your stock hydraulic rubber one probably won't hold with a significant HP gain. Heh - heh.