: Chrysler to drop the "hemi" name



drewsdeville
07-08-10, 05:25 PM
http://www.dailytech.com/Bowing+to+Green+Pressure+Chrysler+to+Retire+Hemi+B adge+Again/article18971.htm

Discuss.:pop2:

Gristle Boy
07-08-10, 05:41 PM
"Hemi" to me means the 426 anyway. Still, it's a pretty sad comment on where things are headed in the automotive world.

Submariner409
07-08-10, 05:44 PM
..............has it ever occurred to anyone that the Northstar is a pent roof "semi-hemi" ?

drewsdeville
07-08-10, 06:04 PM
..............has it ever occurred to anyone that the Northstar is a pent roof "semi-hemi" ?

Sure among other engines as well. Why do you ask?

Like it or not, the "Hemi" name is a staple to Chrysler heritage, not Cadillac's.

What this decision really boils down to is whether Chrysler's Hemi moniker and it's reputation developed over decades has any marketing leverage at all anymore. It's a marketing decision, not a technical one.

According to the article, the engine will live on, just not with a "Hemi" badge on the car.

orconn
07-08-10, 06:28 PM
I can't see how having a "Hemi" badge on a car would be a negative. Any more than having a Dodge or Chrysler badge on it!

dkozloski
07-08-10, 07:27 PM
The problem is that the engine is not and never was a "hemi". An engine with a "square" bore and stroke, and a true hemispherical shaped combustion chamber with a flat topped piston would have a compression ratio of about 5:1. Some kind of domed piston is required to get the compression up to something that would run and it's no longer hemispherical(half a sphere) in shape. The head may have a hemispherical pocket in it but the combustion chamber includes the piston head which is bound to be humped up somehow. Fast and loose with truth in advertising.

Aron9000
07-08-10, 07:45 PM
Really sad IMO. I don't know how 5.7 liter V8 sounds any more "green" than Hemi.

If you were to tell me your car had a 5.7 liter V8 and didn't tell me what make it was, I'd assume you were talking about a Chevrolet 350 V8. And I hate how we now talk about V8's in liters instead of cubic inches.

Stingroo
07-08-10, 07:48 PM
I agree. I never refer to the wagon as a "5.7" it's always a 350.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-08-10, 08:20 PM
Stinks they had to cave in to the greenies, but atleast they've still got the motor.

Submariner409
07-08-10, 08:28 PM
"discuss"

OK - I was driving a AA Fuel Chrysler hemi rail long before you were crapping mustard. "Hemi" is akin to "Mustang" and "posi" - a moniker that stuck, but there were other "hemi" engines on the market long before the good ol' 50's Chrysler Corporation products.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-08-10, 08:32 PM
I thought the Boss 429 was a hemi-head too.... Not that it matters to the topic at hand, but it's interesting to note.

Submariner409
07-08-10, 09:20 PM
...........as an aside, not that I was any good as a drag racer - no money, no time, and lousy on the christmas tree - but it was fun and a group in Kensington, MD gave me the chance to fool with some big money machines.

bjv
07-08-10, 09:27 PM
"Hemi" to me means the 426 anyway

In reality that is the second generation Hemi, even though it was probably the best one. The current engine is the third generation hemi.

In recent years lots of engines have been produced that could have been called Hemi.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-08-10, 10:33 PM
The 392 Hemi was good too, but too bad it was only used for two years.

drewsdeville
07-09-10, 12:25 AM
"discuss"

OK - I was driving a AA Fuel Chrysler hemi rail long before you were crapping mustard. "Hemi" is akin to "Mustang" and "posi" - a moniker that stuck, but there were other "hemi" engines on the market long before the good ol' 50's Chrysler Corporation products.

I definitely agree with this, but Chrysler was still the first to TRADEMARK and MARKET the Hemi name. This isn't just a monikor that stuck. Chrysler's Hemi was and always will be THE hemi in the automotive industry, regardless of other (better or worse) design.

I don't think anyone disagree's that Chryslers hemi engine was/is nothing new by design...it wasn't. But the name itself was Chrysler's own, they are the ones who trademarked it. The engine itself really isn't big news, but the desicion to drop the name is rather interesting...

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-09-10, 12:39 AM
Aside from the high-flow charteristics of the hemi head, did anything else make it great? From what I recall hearing, the 426 Hemi was a pain to live with on a day to day basis, and if given the choice, many Mopar enthusiasts would just as well take a 440, especially in six-pack form. Sandy has some great Hemi v. 440 stories from the days in the early '70s when he worked at a Chrysler/ Dodge/ Plymouth/ Imperial store.

EChas3
07-09-10, 12:41 AM
I remember the 366 Hemi; truely designed for Nascar. Sure the 426 is the collector magnet now, but those good ol' boys at Petty dominated with a smaller chassis & the 366 (6l).

drewsdeville
07-09-10, 12:45 AM
Aside from the high-flow charteristics of the hemi head, did anything else make it great? From what I recall hearing, the 426 Hemi was a pain to live with on a day to day basis, and if given the choice, many Mopar enthusiasts would just as well take a 440, especially in six-pack form. Sandy has some great Hemi v. 440 stories from the days in the early '70s when he worked at a Chrysler/ Dodge/ Plymouth/ Imperial store.

I've heard similar. From what I understand, in stock form, the 440 was a stump-pulling torque monster that could actually outdo the hemi in a typical street race, given equal traction.

However, like you mentioned, with the characteristics of the head design, the hemi quickly pulled away with some wrenching...

What do I know, I was born in the '80's and didn't get my drivers license till 2001, far from the 440 and 426 days. This is just what I've read/heard in the past.

billc83
07-09-10, 12:55 AM
Yeah, our resident Mopar guy should be able to shed a lot of light into the Hemi's history.

IMO, dropping the Hemi name is just indicative of the times. Plus, the Hemi name (when not applied to classics) just doesn't have the same allure as it did a few years ago; the "That thing got a Hemi?" ad campaign played itself out after a while.

Classic historic monikers get ditched by automakers all the time.

77CDV
07-09-10, 03:00 AM
If it doesn't add to the bottom line today, right now, it's gone, no matter how much history or heritage it has. That's the corporate way in modern times.

Destroyer
07-09-10, 04:30 AM
I don't understand how the name "hemi" affects anything. Regardless, it is a great motor in any configuration (SRT or regular). My '05 Daytona "hemi" is unbelievable. This huge truck runs the quarter mile in under 15 seconds..........not bad!

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-09-10, 08:35 AM
I was always left impressed whenever I drove a Ram with the Hemi, and that really means something considering how much I hate Dodge.

Regardless, when Chrysler drops the "hemi" name, it'll still be referred to it as such by the vast majority of people.

Submariner409
07-09-10, 10:06 AM
Some of the middle 60's pushbutton transmission Dodge 440 SixPacks were badass vehicles.

........but, yes - "Hemi" and Chrysler are synonymous and will live forever in automotive circles.

Florian
07-09-10, 01:10 PM
The problem is that the engine is not and never was a "hemi". An engine with a "square" bore and stroke, and a true hemispherical shaped combustion chamber with a flat topped piston would have a compression ratio of about 5:1. Some kind of domed piston is required to get the compression up to something that would run and it's no longer hemispherical(half a sphere) in shape. The head may have a hemispherical pocket in it but the combustion chamber includes the piston head which is bound to be humped up somehow. Fast and loose with truth in advertising.


+1 yeah, that!



F

The Tony Show
07-09-10, 01:27 PM
It's all marketing fluff, just like the Ford "EcoBoost". Here's an engine that gets worse mpg on the highway than naturally aspirated, DI engine of the same HP, yet somehow has the brass to use the word "Eco" in its name. Why? Because it sells.

Jeremy Clarkson's name for the electric car they built on Top Gear (the Eagle Hammerhead iThrust) was a brilliant satire of corporate naming structures. People gobble this crap up, so the suits keep looking for ways to improve their product's marketability.

drewsdeville
07-09-10, 01:28 PM
The problem is that the engine is not and never was a "hemi". An engine with a "square" bore and stroke, and a true hemispherical shaped combustion chamber with a flat topped piston would have a compression ratio of about 5:1. Some kind of domed piston is required to get the compression up to something that would run and it's no longer hemispherical(half a sphere) in shape. The head may have a hemispherical pocket in it but the combustion chamber includes the piston head which is bound to be humped up somehow. Fast and loose with truth in advertising.

I was always under the impression that the hemi engines (chrysler and others) were advertised to have "hemispherical heads". As you stated, this is the case. I never heard anyone claim hemispherical combustion chambers...

A hemi-HEADED engine is a hemi...a hemi-combustion chambered engine is...non-existent as you clarified.

:confused:

Either way, if we are getting into the history and technicalities of the hemi engines, what goes on the with the combustion chamber isn't nearly as interesting as the the methods used to work the valvetrains... Lots of interesting methods used by developers throughout the decades.

Jesda
07-09-10, 01:31 PM
Call it a Hemi or an Aardvark -- in the end the 5.7 V8 is a nice motor.

dkozloski
07-09-10, 01:39 PM
The original Hemi appeared in Dodge trucks and was a horrible dog. The valve gear seldom lasted more than one winter and the thing clattered like a diesel.

drewsdeville
07-09-10, 01:47 PM
It's all marketing fluff, just like the Ford "EcoBoost". Here's an engine that gets worse mpg on the highway than naturally aspirated, DI engine of the same HP, yet somehow has the brass to use the word "Eco" in its name. Why? Because it sells.

Jeremy Clarkson's name for the electric car they built on Top Gear (the Eagle Hammerhead iThrust) was a brilliant satire of corporate naming structures. People gobble this crap up, so the suits keep looking for ways to improve their product's marketability.

Yeah, that's why this topic is interesting. Chrysler thinks that the hemi name is no longer valuable for "marketing fluff". They feel that "5.7L" appears more green than "Hemi", though they are the same engine.

I don't know about you guys, but to me, slapping a 5.7L badge on a car with a large (for today) displacement like that sounds LESS green than "Hemi". It's clear that with this move they are attempting to market the Hemi beyond those who know what it means. If I was a typical automotively challenged customer in today's world, I'm not so sure that I'd like the sound of 5.7L. I think I'd rather hear "Hemi" and not know what it means rather than be reminded the large displacement.

Jesda
07-09-10, 01:50 PM
Plus, 5.7L sounds big and thirsty as manufacturers move to smaller displacement + forced induction.

drewsdeville
07-09-10, 01:50 PM
The original Hemi appeared in Dodge trucks and was a horrible dog. The valve gear seldom lasted more than one winter and the thing clattered like a diesel.

Yeah that's why they developed the "poly" engines, a sort of quasi hemi. I have one here in the yard, a '66 318, the last year it was made. Good engine. Didn't last long in production though.

drewsdeville
07-09-10, 01:51 PM
Plus, 5.7L sounds big and thirsty as manufacturers move to smaller displacement + forced induction.

Yeah, exactly

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-10-10, 02:16 AM
Plus, 5.7L sounds big and thirsty as manufacturers move to smaller displacement + forced induction.

Yep, in today's world a 5.7L V8 is fairly large. In my world, it's a mid sized V-8.


Jeremy Clarkson's name for the electric car they built on Top Gear (the Eagle Hammerhead iThrust) was a brilliant satire of corporate naming structures.

That episode was hilarious, especially watching the iThrust in the slow motion crash tests. TG at it's finest right there.

Destroyer
07-13-10, 01:22 AM
..............has it ever occurred to anyone that the Northstar is a pent roof "semi-hemi" ?No, but it is a first class POS, that is for sure!:lildevil:

dkozloski
07-13-10, 03:27 AM
No, but it is a first class POS, that is for sure!:lildevil:
The Northstar holds more international endurance records(47) than any Hemi.

drewsdeville
07-13-10, 10:50 AM
The Northstar holds more international endurance records(47) than any Hemi.

That doesn't make it more reliable...

EcSTSatic
07-13-10, 11:25 AM
That doesn't make it more reliable...


:hmm:

dkozloski
07-13-10, 01:03 PM
That doesn't make it more reliable...
That statement produced a sharp uptick on the flawed reasoning meter.

drewsdeville
07-13-10, 01:20 PM
Just because the engine is durable/can endure when it runs doesn't mean that it runs all the time.

I'd trust a Hemi to run 300k with less trouble/at lower cost than a Northstar, though I'd trust the northstar around a race track at high rpm and speed more than a hemi. If you know what I mean....

noahsdad
07-13-10, 01:38 PM
Interesting reading. The 426 Hemi was a derivative of the 426 Max Wedge, both of which were engineering experiments in head design, and both used pistons with top designs that improved compression and flow. Chrysler did not want to release these engines to the public because they were horribly unreliable for daily driving, but NHRA and NASCAR rules required a certain amount be sold in street cars. As I recall, you could not get a factory warranty with either a Max Wedge or Hemi engine, and often couldn't get insurance, either. It is interesting to note that the 426 Hemi block and head architecture is still used by the professional engine builders for top fuel dragsters and funny cars.

Back in my drag racing days, I remember a farm boy who showed up one Sunday with a 426 Hemi shoehorned into a 1950 Oldsmobile coupe. It lifted the front wheels about 10 inches off the ground at the tree, and on his first shift, the frame flexed and both doors popped open and stayed there. When he returned to the pits, not only was the body bent like a beer can, the Hemi had torqued itself so hard it broke the motor mounts, and was laying on the frame rails at a 30 degree tilt.

The Tony Show
07-13-10, 02:45 PM
Yep, in today's world a 5.7L V8 is fairly large. In my world, it's a mid sized V-8.


Let's not kid ourselves though- most people have no idea what 5.7L means, or whether it's big or small. Chances are that if you drove a car with 5.7L badges through LA, someone would say "Oh, look at the new Dodge Fifty-Seven L, it's cute."

Stingroo
07-13-10, 03:55 PM
Let's not kid ourselves though- most people have no idea what 5.7L means, or whether it's big or small. Chances are that if you drove a car with 5.7L badges through LA, someone would say "Oh, look at the new Dodge Fifty-Seven L, it's cute."




Maybe I have a little more faith in the common person than you do (or maybe I'm naive) but I don't really think anyone is THAT stupid.

:hide:

billc83
07-13-10, 05:02 PM
I don't know, Sting. I once heard a woman honestly say, "Ford Thunderbird? I thought this was a T-Bird!"

thebigjimsho
08-07-10, 11:59 AM
I guess my plate's meaning has changed...




http://pic90.picturetrail.com/VOL2241/2287429/22963540/382623294.jpg

93DevilleUSMC
08-07-10, 12:42 PM
Maybe I have a little more faith in the common person than you do (or maybe I'm naive) but I don't really think anyone is THAT stupid.

:hide:

Man, I've heard folks on the radio call a Jeep Wrangler a "Jeep Rubicon". I've heard a kid refer to a catalytic converter as a "Cadillac converter", and I've had a girl tell me her Oldsmobile was a better car than any Cadillac because it was cuter.


NEVER underestimate the stupidity of the American public when it comes to cars.

93DevilleUSMC
08-07-10, 12:44 PM
That doesn't make it more reliable...

Reliability, by definition, IS endurance.