: What's the least interesting car in the world?



Jesda
06-30-10, 08:13 PM
By that I mean:

1. Not cute
2. Note polarizing
3. Not brutally ugly
4. Not pretty
5. No heritage or legacy
6. Not fast or too terribly slow
7. Not crude but not extremely refined either
8. Not terribly unreliable, but nothing that would survive a nuclear holocaust either
9. No real cult following, few detractors

In general, something very beige. I nominate the:

http://www.chevy-cobalt-car.info/wp-content/uploads/chevy-cobalt-sedan/1/2008_Chevy_Cobalt_ext_1.jpg
Non-SS Chevy Cobalt sedan

http://www.michigantoyotasales.com/documents/2010corolla.jpg
Toyota Corolla

http://www.dieselstation.com/pics/Pontiac-G6-Sedan-2009-car-wallpaper.jpg
Pontiac G6 sedan


All of them are cars you'd buy to stick your doesn't-care-about-cars wife and her shopping bags in. Other nominees?

concorso
06-30-10, 08:22 PM
Most Vans.

gdwriter
06-30-10, 08:24 PM
Jeep Wrangler :lildevil:


OK, I know it doesn't meet all of Jesda's criteria since it does have a long legacy and a devoted following. And we all know just how devoted that following can be, ad infinitum.

To Jesda's nominees, I'd add the Nissan Sentra. I'd put pretty much any Kia sedan on the list except people who know about/care about cars tend to look down on them, so Kias do have their detractors.

Sevillian273
06-30-10, 08:34 PM
Nissan Altima
Totoya Camry
Honda Accord

I think every car has some sort of following, somewhere...Try to find a car that has no internet discussion forum!

orconn
06-30-10, 08:37 PM
The cars shown in Jesda's example would be considered "luxury" cars in most parts of the world! I am sure there is a car produced somewhere in Eastern Europe that meets all of Jesda's criteria and is such a low flyer that that it has passed right under our radar!

Jesda
06-30-10, 08:38 PM
The cars shown in Jesda's example would be considered "luxury" cars in most parts of the world! I am sure there is a car produced somewhere in Eastern Europe that meets all of Jesda's criteria and is such a low flyer that that it has passed right under our radar!

But it would be so crude and soviet that it might actually be interesting, plus they have a story behind them.

concorso
06-30-10, 08:41 PM
The cars shown in Jesda's example would be considered "luxury" cars in most parts of the world! I am sure there is a car produced somewhere in Eastern Europe that meets all of Jesda's criteria and is such a low flyer that that it has passed right under our radar!Reliant Robin? No, its the MOST interesting car in the world. :)

gary88
06-30-10, 08:46 PM
http://img535.imageshack.us/img535/7033/toyota05.jpg

My roommate has one and it's thoroughly meh. You sit upright in it like an SUV. I struggle to stay awake whenever I'm in it.

77CDV
06-30-10, 08:52 PM
Chevy Aveo.

gdwriter
06-30-10, 09:12 PM
My roommate has one and it's thoroughly meh. You sit upright in it like an SUV. I struggle to stay awake whenever I'm in it.I had one of those Corollas as a rental a few years ago, and it was horrible. Bolt upright seats that no matter how much I adjusted them, there was no way to find a position that was even remotely comfortable.

Stingroo
06-30-10, 09:20 PM
Guys guys...

The Yugo.

:lol:

I~LUV~Caddys8792
06-30-10, 09:32 PM
Corolla CE

Jesda
06-30-10, 09:57 PM
Guys guys...

The Yugo.

:lol:

But, so awful that it's interesting

ryannel2003
06-30-10, 10:16 PM
As the former driver of a 2000 Toyota Camry, I can definitely nominate any generation of that car. Thoroughly boring in every single way with absolutely no fun added in, but damn it was reliable.

orconn
06-30-10, 11:59 PM
Yugo? I thought the car had to be in current production.

1 OLDLAC
07-01-10, 12:18 AM
I vote the tree hugging Smart car, I absolutely despise those golf carts with doors and always find myself harassing them on the road for no reason at all other than knowing the owner is ignorant for wasting money on something like that and thats motivatiion enough!!

V-Eight
07-01-10, 12:39 AM
I'd say the Smart car is interesting just because it IS so unique, although I'd still never drive one. I actually got to ride in one the other day and it was surprisingly roomy,.

orconn
07-01-10, 12:41 AM
I nominate the "Checker" as the least interesting American postwar car. The only thing interesting about was that it dominated the taxi trade in major U.S. cities for 25 years. Aside from that it was homely to look at, rode like a buck board, its' interior design and materials had all the charm of a mensroom at the Port Authority Terminal, and its' chassis and suspension were prewar, even in 1960. They also were powered by conventional Detroit motors hooked to outdated automatic transmissions. However, they did inspire many a Yuppy to seek enough success to command a limo of his own!

Koooop
07-01-10, 12:48 AM
Guys guys...

The Yugo.

:lol:

Sorry, the Yugo is very interesting.

YouTube- MW 1996 Yugo Art Cars

Now the Chevette diesel is a snooze box.

ga_etc
07-01-10, 12:52 AM
By that I mean:

1. Not cute
2. Note polarizing
3. Not brutally ugly
4. Not pretty
5. No heritage or legacy
6. Not fast or too terribly slow
7. Not crude but not extremely refined either
8. Not terribly unreliable, but nothing that would survive a nuclear holocaust either
9. No real cult following, few detractors

In general, something very beige.

I think I have the winner...

http://images.autotrader.com/scaler/565/421/images/2010/6/23/281/744/16444255344.281744391.IM1.MAIN.565x421_A.562x421.j pg

Any Dodge Stratus, or it's other siblings the Chrysler Cirrus and Plymouth Breeze.

Night Wolf
07-01-10, 01:25 AM
Can't say much about that generation, but my cousin had an '01 or so Stratus with the rare and I guess possibily problematic? 2.7 DOHC V6. Overall it was a nice car.

I'd also vote the Corolla, I rented one and agree, the seats are too upright.

It doesn't help tho when your grilfriend has one, and is a big fan of it, and Toyota..... I'm trying to show her the light tho, one oil change and wheelin trip in the Jeep at a time!

As much as the small econo cars are not well liked on this site, they have a following and usually offer a performance version too.

gdwriter
07-01-10, 02:52 AM
I always refer to the Smart as the Dumb Ass Car because that's exactly what it is. What a pretentious name to begin with.

Aron9000
07-01-10, 03:19 AM
I nominate the last two generations of Malibu.

1997ish
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/3d/1997-99_Chevrolet_Malibu.jpg

2004ish, the wagon version was kind of novel, if really ugly

http://static.howstuffworks.com/gif/vehicle-pictures/2007/chevrolet/malibu/04123231990001-480.jpg

ga_etc
07-01-10, 03:29 AM
At least with the '04 redesign you could get the Maxx SS. It wasn't a SuperSport by any means, but it was still interesting. Now, the previous gen? Bleh. A friend of mine has one, and it's a decent little car, but nothing to write home about, so it squarely falls into the right category here. The Malibu is a storied name though, so it also kinda doesn't fit. The Stratus/Breeze/Cirrus though, they have nothing going for them. No following, nothing slightly resembling a performance model, just complete mediocrity.

Jesda
07-01-10, 03:32 AM
Its funny how Chevrolet used the late 90s Malibu/Cutlass in its 2007 Malibu ads describing anonymous cars.

I agree with you 100% on the Stratus, Rick.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-01-10, 08:24 AM
Non SHO Tauruses too...,

drewsdeville
07-01-10, 09:09 AM
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/df/Buick_Roadmaster.jpg

She's a beaut, eh? Look at that timeless jelly bean profile.

It wasn't a looker but there was uglier
It had a decent interior but it was outclassed by anything similarly priced.
Poor performing. Couldn't compete with anything in it's class except the similarly dated and underperforming Grand Marquis/Town Car. Earlier TBI versions aren't even worth mentioning.
Could lay the door handles down on the pavement performing anything that resembled a turn.
Outdated and inferior construction and design for it's time.
Related to the previous line, it was in production but not in demand.
It died in '96 and the public doesn't remember it or miss it.

Jesda
07-01-10, 09:41 AM
GM's full size RWD cars have kind of a huge cult following, especially the Impala.

Has to be something without too many fans or detractors. Something inherently dispassionate. Obviously, the car is interesting enough for you to troll.

Stingroo
07-01-10, 09:42 AM
Has to be something without too many fans or detractors. Something inherently dispassionate. Obviously, the car is interesting enough for you to troll.

Again? :yawn::thepan:

drewsdeville
07-01-10, 09:53 AM
Most of the cars in this thread all have their own cult following. There's clubs and forums for everything listed in this thread. Everything is loved by someone, whether it's justifiable or not. One mans junk is another mans treasure.

And no, for this topic, don't relate the Roadmaster to the rest of the platform variants Jesda. An Impala is not a Roadmaster, which is why the picture I used is not an Impala . I recognize the love for the Impala SS, though I don't follow. However the Roadmaster is and was generally forgotten, shadowed by more advanced platforms, and the rest of it's own platform including the classier Fleetwood and the cheaper/abundant Caprice. If the car was interesting, it wouldn't have been lost in time, so I consider it one of the least interesting.

Stingroo
07-01-10, 10:30 AM
Fair point. On the whole, I can agree with that.

Jesda
07-01-10, 11:11 AM
Most of the cars in this thread all have their own cult following. There's clubs and forums for everything listed in this thread. Everything is loved by someone, whether it's justifiable or not. One mans junk is another mans treasure.


A "cult" car is something the mainstream of society associates with a small but devoted following. Its not the absolute existence or non-existence of fans. Polarity of emotion, positive or negative, is part of what defines interest.

Stingroo
07-01-10, 11:13 AM
Like VW's = cult cars. (Pretty much all of them, actually...)

OffThaHorseCEO
07-01-10, 01:12 PM
Most of the cars in this thread all have their own cult following. There's clubs and forums for everything listed in this thread. Everything is loved by someone, whether it's justifiable or not. One mans junk is another mans treasure.

And no, for this topic, don't relate the Roadmaster to the rest of the platform variants Jesda. An Impala is not a Roadmaster, which is why the picture I used is not an Impala . I recognize the love for the Impala SS, though I don't follow. However the Roadmaster is and was generally forgotten, shadowed by more advanced platforms, and the rest of it's own platform including the classier Fleetwood and the cheaper/abundant Caprice. If the car was interesting, it wouldn't have been lost in time, so I consider it one of the least interesting.


the roadmaster didnt die because it sucked. the roadmaster died because they killed the b/d body platform. the impala and caprice and fleetwood died at the same time.

look up impala forums and youll always find discussions about the roadmaster.

nearly everything in a roadmaster was identical to an impala yet it was more luxurious.

it was smaller and light than a fleetwood yet almost as luxurious

doesnt fit

Koooop
07-01-10, 01:35 PM
I believe they were killed off because GM needed factory space to build more profitable SUV's.

ga_etc
07-01-10, 05:12 PM
I believe they were killed off because GM needed factory space to build more profitable SUV's.

For the love of God, PLEASE don't get him started again...:bomb:

johnny kannapo
07-01-10, 05:23 PM
This car is very plane. http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/aerocar_image001.jpg

drewsdeville
07-01-10, 05:50 PM
This car is very plane. http://www.egmcartech.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/aerocar_image001.jpg

Nice

drewsdeville
07-01-10, 05:51 PM
I believe they were killed off because GM needed factory space to build more profitable SUV's.

Yes.

Stingroo
07-01-10, 06:15 PM
Johnny = Post of the Thread.

He wins. Thread closed. lol

77CDV
07-01-10, 06:20 PM
Most of the cars in this thread all have their own cult following. There's clubs and forums for everything listed in this thread. Everything is loved by someone, whether it's justifiable or not. One mans junk is another mans treasure.

There's someone out there who loves the Aveo? Or the Stratus? Really? I must meet this person. There can't be more than one.

Stingroo
07-01-10, 06:21 PM
Actually I do know someone who loved their Aveo dearly. She totalled it drunk after a party and was like all depressed because she couldn't afford another one.

gary88
07-01-10, 06:38 PM
If you want to feel better about yourself just browse around here for awhile.

http://aveoclub.proboards.com/index.cgi

Jesda
07-01-10, 07:43 PM
Awww, they cant even afford a domain. :( I feel like donating.

ga_etc
07-01-10, 07:55 PM
Wow, they're serious about their Aveos...

Bro-Ham
07-01-10, 08:28 PM
After 17 years of peddling cars the universal classic old school car dealer saying was "there's a butt for every seat." Aveo people probably get as passionate about their cars as Roadmaster folks, which is probably not much. The Roadmaster sedan was an awkward and ugly car when it came out in 1992 - a total contrast to the classy last of the real RWD luxury Buicks, the 84 Park Avenue, which was a truly elegant car. I don't think anyone would go as far to say the Roadmaster is good looking or timeless or a car they would aspire to own - when it was new or now.

77CDV
07-01-10, 10:17 PM
If you want to feel better about yourself just browse around here for awhile.

http://aveoclub.proboards.com/index.cgi

To quote Capt. Reynauld, I'm shocked! Shocked!

77CDV
07-01-10, 10:19 PM
After 17 years of peddling cars the universal classic old school car dealer saying was "there's a butt for every seat." Aveo people probably get as passionate about their cars as Roadmaster folks, which is probably not much. The Roadmaster sedan was an awkward and ugly car when it came out in 1992 - a total contrast to the classy last of the real RWD luxury Buicks, the 84 Park Avenue, which was a truly elegant car. I don't think anyone would go as far to say the Roadmaster is good looking or timeless or a car they would aspire to own - when it was new or now.

I rather like the '92-'96 Roadies, esp. the wagons. I think they look rather smart, though the interior materials and build quality could have been better.

Stingroo
07-01-10, 10:27 PM
There was a '95 black on black Roadmaster for sale on my local CL, it's what got me interested in the B-bodies, but on the whole, I would say the RM sedans were the least memorable of the three.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-01-10, 10:57 PM
And no, for this topic, don't relate the Roadmaster to the rest of the platform variants Jesda. An Impala is not a Roadmaster, which is why the picture I used is not an Impala . I recognize the love for the Impala SS, though I don't follow. However the Roadmaster is and was generally forgotten, shadowed by more advanced platforms, and the rest of it's own platform including the classier Fleetwood and the cheaper/abundant Caprice. If the car was interesting, it wouldn't have been lost in time, so I consider it one of the least interesting.

Have you ever been to an Impala SS club or seen a group at a car show? They welcome any of the b/d bodies, no matter what one it is. "More advanced platforms"? You mean the FWD V-6 powered Park Avenue? Not comparable.

If you wanna talk mid '90s Buicks that are largely forgotten....how about the Skylark? Century? LeSabre? I know for a fact they don't have the enthusiast following of the Roadmaster.


the roadmaster didnt die because it sucked. the roadmaster died because they killed the b/d body platform. the impala and caprice and fleetwood died at the same time.

look up impala forums and youll always find discussions about the roadmaster.

nearly everything in a roadmaster was identical to an impala yet it was more luxurious.

it was smaller and light than a fleetwood yet almost as luxurious

doesnt fit

Thank you.


There's someone out there who loves the Aveo? Or the Stratus? Really? I must meet this person. There can't be more than one.

Some people know are so un-picky about cars that they'll love whatever they have. For example, my mother is definitely NOT someone who is an auto enthusiast, but in the fall of '82, when she was 21 years old, she bought her first brand new car, an '83 Oldsmobile Firenza hatchback, a car that's largely forgotten nowadays, but she had that car through the summer of '94 and loved it all the time. She didn't really care about all the technical specs of it, or how well it held up, but it was her "cute little yellow hatchback" and she really enjoyed it until someone else totaled it.


but on the whole, I would say the RM sedans were the least memorable of the three.

Perhaps, but almost everyone forgets about the 1991-92 Custom Cruiser, which is sad considering how nice of a car they are.

EChas3
07-01-10, 10:59 PM
Le Crap...

Stingroo
07-01-10, 11:07 PM
OH MY GOD PLEASE NO NOT LE CAR!

My girlfriend wants one of those for some reason. Oh my god you just brought back terrible memories. I think I hate you right now.

(No, not really, but good god noooo)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-01-10, 11:11 PM
It's interesting because it's a Renault and therefore is very weird.

EChas3
07-01-10, 11:11 PM
Well, when my buddy was home visiting, the only car he could borrow was his Mom's. He called it Le Shit.

He now drives his 50th anniversary 'Vette when he comes back to visit. :)

He flies A3xx's out of Hong Kong.

EChas3
07-01-10, 11:15 PM
It's interesting because it's a Renault and therefore is very weird.

I have to disagree. Only my friend hated it. Nobody else even knew it was there.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-01-10, 11:18 PM
I suppose, they didn't make/import many of them, so aside from the enthusiasts like us who are aware of this weird stuff, nobody really ever heard of them.

Jesda
07-01-10, 11:56 PM
I say, any French car commercially exported to the US qualifies as interesting due to being rare, hated, and poorly made.

orconn
07-02-10, 12:22 AM
I say, any French car commercially exported to the US qualifies as interesting due to being rare, hated, and poorly made.

Mais non, mon petit chou orientale. The Citroen SM was excellent as was the Peugeot 505S's of the early 1980's (body design by Pinin Farina, decent handling, ride just south of an XJ6 and put together to a high standard). The Renault "Le Car" was one of the all time great "nickle rockets"!

drewsdeville
07-02-10, 12:25 AM
Have you ever been to an Impala SS club or seen a group at a car show? They welcome any of the b/d bodies, no matter what one it is. "More advanced platforms"? You mean the FWD V-6 powered Park Avenue? Not comparable.

If you wanna talk mid '90s Buicks that are largely forgotten....how about the Skylark? Century? LeSabre? I know for a fact they don't have the enthusiast following of the Roadmaster.


Says the guy on a Cadillac forum who drives a Buick Regal, which is just a rebadged Century. If your opinion is that the b-body is more advanced and enthusiast oriented than the w-body Century/Regal, you are driving the wrong car, my friend. There's a blue Roadmaster wagon that a poor fellow in my city has been trying to sell in his front yard since springtime. Maybe you guys need to contact each other so you can dump that dull mid-90's based Buick and get a car on a REAL platform with an "enthusiast following".

Also, I don't believe that the LeSabre is exactly forgotten. That car, along with the Park Ave obviously, pretty much carried the Buick name through the '90's and is largely responsible for whatever loyal customer base that Buick has today. The LeSabre developed a good name for the efficient, reliable service that it provided it's customers through those years and was a fantastic seller, more than can be said for that beloved Roadmaster. Call it uninteresting if you want, but it's definitely not forgotten.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-02-10, 12:58 AM
I'd rather own a V8, RWD Body on frame car, but the Roadmaster (or any other b/d body) is not a car I'd want to put through the harsh minnesota winters. Salt will eat it up. Cars like this are hard to come by, especially in good shape, and as such, should be preserved in the best possible way. I would not be able to give it the treatment that I think it deserves, which is why I bought the Regal GS over the Roadmaster/Fleetwood/Caprice Classic/Impala. Although, just for your information, I do have a little experience with the Roadmasters....my first car was a '95 Roadmaster Limited, so yeah +1 for me. In a perfect world, I could enjoy the car of my dreams year round and not worry about it rusting away, and in that perfect world, I'd be owning a 1996 Cadillac Fleetwood Brougham in that beautiful crimson red metallic with the neutral interior. A car that's perfectly worthless and too large and unsuitable for you. That's fine, we need people to drive econoboxes too. :) (Keep in mind I remember you saying that you don't really like your Cadillacs, but rather you bought them because you're a broke college kid and need something to drive)

Now, regarding your snide little comparison between the '97 + Century & Regal GS.....they're both W-bodies and that's as far as their similarities go. In case you haven't noticed, they don't share the same drivetrain, the same suspension nor the same interior. The Century caters to the octogeniarian crowd....small V-6, light duty transmission, soft bench seats, quiet & isolated ride. The GS is the sportiest Buick since the '87 Grand National. Big supercharged V-6 (I just had it up to 115 about 20 minutes ago!!), heavy duty transmission, sports suspension, buckets & console interior, and a shitload of aftermarket performance goodies available at my whim. Although, to be perfectly honest, I WAS talking about the 1982-96 "A Body" Century, which I'm sure is miles better than the Roadmaster for some dumb reason you can possibly think of.

Ok so yeah the LeSabre & Park Avenues aren't forgotten and they're still popular, but how many enthusiasts do you see scrambling to pick them up and keep them in mint condition? Not many.

gdwriter
07-02-10, 01:07 AM
I say, any French car commercially exported to the US qualifies as interesting due to being rare, hated, and poorly made.


Mais non, mon petit chou orientale. The Citroen SM was excellent as was the Peugeot 505S's of the early 1980's (body design by Pinin Farina, decent handling, ride just south of an XJ6 and put together to a high standard). The Renault "Le Car" was one of the all time great "nickle rockets"!French cars, are however, so weird that they make Saabs seem mainstream. Especially Citroens.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-02-10, 01:11 AM
I LOVE the Citroen SM.

http://images.thetruthaboutcars.com/2010/02/Citroen_SM.jpg

drewsdeville
07-02-10, 01:12 AM
Now, regarding your snide little comparison between the '97 + Century & Regal GS.....they're both W-bodies and that's as far as their similarities go.




Well, you were so quick to bring up the Impala SS when I mentioned Roadmaster, I think that's a similar comparison.




Ok so yeah the LeSabre & Park Avenues aren't forgotten and they're still popular, but how many enthusiasts do you see scrambling to pick them up and keep them in mint condition? Not many.



I agree, but that's not the point either of us were trying to make about the LeSabre :thepan:

And wait, you are telling me that you feel better about submitting a Regal GS to the elements than an ancient, economically lower-valued b-body? Good lord. To each man his own I guess but...wow. For the value that your Regal GS could bring, at least around here, you could pick up 2 decent b-bodies from down south (where there are still quite a few lingering and don't bring any money), and keep one nice like you want.

Koooop
07-02-10, 01:13 AM
Defense for Citreon, Le Car, Roadmonsters, Aveo... No one standing up for the Chevette Diesel?

Hmmm.

The-Dullahan
07-02-10, 01:26 AM
Volvo 440? They are not too common, but not entirely unheard of down here. Even the Ricer Kids avoid them, but the Ghetto kids think they're Cadillacs. No matter what colour they started out as, they are always dirt-brown on the outside with duct tape interiors. Once had a former coworker challenge me to a race in one and I WON...how's THAT for Boring. Then again I've beaten new model Mercedes sedans too, but my car just has that kind of fortune on her side and a c320 will NEVER (in my mind) classify as a Luxury Sedan or sportscar, so...
http://www.vootar.com/imgs/elementos/1267636011_Volvo440.jpg

HAZZARDJOHN
07-02-10, 01:40 AM
http://sphotos.ak.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ak-snc3/hs409.snc3/24756_10150147357730462_519250461_11488382_7468399 _n.jpg

Dodge Ram! (OK Maybe I just want to be called an A-hole again :thepan:)

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-02-10, 01:49 AM
And wait, you are telling me that you feel better about submitting a Regal GS to the elements than an ancient, economically lower-valued b-body? Good lord. To each man his own I guess but...wow. For the value that your Regal GS could bring, at least around here, you could pick up 2 decent b-bodies from down south (where there are still quite a few lingering and don't bring any money), and keep one nice like you want.

I feel better about submitting the GS through the snow because it has more plastic panels than the B/D bodies do, and they're newer and much easier to find replacement parts for, because there were so many more made and they're still fairly relevant. Not to mention the fact it's smaller, is FWD, and has traction control. Fact of the matter is that while I've already owned a Roadmaster and really enjoyed it, I would not want to go back to another RML, but would rather own a mint condition Fleetwood Brougham, but even I think that's a bit large for me to drive on a daily basis. It'd be something more like a weekend cruiser, but I don't have the deep pockets right now to permit me to have two cars.

Part of the reason that I bought the GS last July is because it was "good enough" and it was there when I was ready to buy. I looked at a few '95-96 FWB's, and really liked them, but by the time I finally decided to cave in and trade my S-Class in, they were both gone, so I went with the GS, which was #2 on my list. At the time, I wasn't as anal about keeping a FWB out of the snow/salt, but now I'm glad I bought the GS instead. Not to mention the fact that it was 2009 and it would have been damn near impossible to finance a Fleetwood Brougham, a car that would have been at least 13 years old. Most companies don't go older than 7 years, and even I had a tough time finding a bank that'd finance that 9 year old Buick (thank god it had 59k miles on it)

drewsdeville
07-02-10, 01:55 AM
So, let me get this straight...you just explained to me the reasons (besides financing) that the b-body is NOT a good contender for a daily driver, the reasons you didn't buy one, though it'd be neat to have one as a garage queen/sunday driver. Yet last week you were defending the idea of continued/updated b-body construction because you feel GM bailed on an active and desired market to make SUV's?


What?

:banghead:

Aron9000
07-02-10, 02:03 AM
Volvo 440? They are not too common, but not entirely unheard of down here. Even the Ricer Kids avoid them, but the Ghetto kids think they're Cadillacs. No matter what colour they started out as, they are always dirt-brown on the outside with duct tape interiors. Once had a former coworker challenge me to a race in one and I WON...how's THAT for Boring. Then again I've beaten new model Mercedes sedans too, but my car just has that kind of fortune on her side and a c320 will NEVER (in my mind) classify as a Luxury Sedan or sportscar, so...
http://www.vootar.com/imgs/elementos/1267636011_Volvo440.jpg

Volvos are pretty damn cool, just ask the wanker who built this:

http://www.topgear.com/content/timetoburn/sections/carbage/pages/0074/main.jpg

drewsdeville
07-02-10, 02:05 AM
Volvos are pretty damn cool, just ask the wanker who built this:

http://www.topgear.com/content/timetoburn/sections/carbage/pages/0074/main.jpg


Well, we definitely can't add that to the "uninteresting" list...

ga_etc
07-02-10, 02:19 AM
http://www.vootar.com/imgs/elementos/1267636011_Volvo440.jpg

I have never seen one of those before. Volvo's attempt at a 3-series?

Aron9000
07-02-10, 02:22 AM
I don't think they sold the 440 in this country. I googled it, it was the first FWD Volvo ever, and was pretty reasonably priced, kind of like Volvo's Ford Mondeo or Honda Accord, an everyman's car. Of course back then Volvos weren't really considered luxury cars, I remember our family's 1988ish 240DL wagon having vinyl seats and crank windows.

Bro-Ham
07-02-10, 02:40 AM
As our chief Cadillac Forum moderator, Chad has to put up with us day after day telling stories about our pleasures, delights, and adventures of Cadillac ownership, while he sacrifices by trudging along in his Century Super with an inoperative cassette player. It may take awhile but he will be back behind the wheel of a RWD Caddy again and it will confirm why he spends all his time here with us. :)

ga_etc
07-02-10, 02:49 AM
My 2nd nomination is the Volvo 740 non-turbo sedan.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3470/3903512283_4d762f6f6e_b.jpg

I drove one at a local car lot one time, out of sheer curiosity. It was the worst driving experience I have ever had.

Bro-Ham
07-02-10, 02:54 AM
I suppose, they didn't make/import many of them, so aside from the enthusiasts like us who are aware of this weird stuff, nobody really ever heard of them.

I think you guys were talking about the Renault LeCar here. They were heavily advertised back in the day, I'm trying to remember the catchy TV slogan they had for the LeCar. I believe they were sold here from maybe 1979 through 1981. That was back in the days when AMC and Renault were partners and every town had an AMC/Jeep/Renault dealership. Those cars were junk so they either rusted out or fell apart so probably not many have survived but I recall seeing plenty of them when they were new. :)

Bro-Ham
07-02-10, 02:58 AM
My 2nd nomination is the Volvo 740 non-turbo sedan.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3470/3903512283_4d762f6f6e_b.jpg

I drove one at a local car lot one time, out of sheer curiosity. It was the worst driving experience I have ever had.

When those were all new I remember first seeing them at the auto show with my buddy and we both thought they were pretty cool, especially considering how old looking the 240 had become. Sure, the 740 was a dog but it could be had with a turbo. I particularly liked the loaded up 760GLE. That didn't last long. :)

ga_etc
07-02-10, 03:05 AM
Especially with the one pictured, they're not bad looking cars, I don't think. They were just horrendously slow if naturally aspirated.

Aron9000
07-02-10, 03:11 AM
Well you can always fix the horrendeously slow aspect of a Volvo 740:

YouTube- Nice Family-Volvo

ga_etc
07-02-10, 03:17 AM
Yeah, that'll do!!!

I also wouldn't turn down the keys to an 850 T-5R :D. I like those.

77CDV
07-02-10, 03:18 AM
Please don't ever speak to me about any Chevette. My dad had a '78 Chevette (not a diesel), and it was hideous, a three way tie with his '68 AMC Rebel coupe and '81 Plymouth Horizon for THE worst car ever. I think I even preferred his '72 Pinto wagon to any of them, and that's saying something. God rest him, Dad couldn't pick a decent car to save his soul. After the Horizon debacle, either my mom or I would go with him to prevent the inevitable disaster that resulted whenever he got near a car dealership alone.

ga_etc
07-02-10, 03:46 AM
Another easily forgotten little car: the mid '90s Plymouth Acclaim. Although it did share the same platform as the Dodge Spirit, which could be had in R/T form.

http://www.imcdb.org/images/065/655.jpg

greencadillacmatt
07-02-10, 05:38 AM
Please don't ever speak to me about any Chevette.

I know what I'm bringing up at the Florida Meet. :duck:

Stingroo
07-02-10, 06:28 AM
My great grandmother had a Chevette when she was in her 80s. When she finally had to give up her license, she gave the car to my mom. It had a hole in its muffler, and to my 7-8 year old self (especially next to our 455 powered Olds) it was the most annoying vehicle on the face of the planet.





Still is pretty close.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-02-10, 08:49 AM
So, let me get this straight...you just explained to me the reasons (besides financing) that the b-body is NOT a good contender for a daily driver, the reasons you didn't buy one, though it'd be neat to have one as a garage queen/sunday driver. Yet last week you were defending the idea of continued/updated b-body construction because you feel GM bailed on an active and desired market to make SUV's?


What?

:banghead:

The only reasons that I didn't buy a D-Body at the time was because I thought it was too big for ME to enjoy on a daily basis, atleast I thought so at the time, but after driving my friend's '96 FWB a few times recently, I've realized that isn't the truth anymore. Looking back at it now, the real reason I couldn't have gotten the FWB is because nobody in their right mind would finance a car that's 14 years old, and unless I paid cash for it, which wasn't possible at the time, it would have been impossible to buy it. Not to mention that they're few and far between and generally sell fast (high demand...?)

GM bailed on an active market. Look how many old fogies you see in newer Grand Marquis & Town Cars. The market's still there, you don't seem to want to believe it though.


My 2nd nomination is the Volvo 740 non-turbo sedan.

http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3470/3903512283_4d762f6f6e_b.jpg

I drove one at a local car lot one time, out of sheer curiosity. It was the worst driving experience I have ever had.

What was so bad about it? They're a decent looking car.


Another easily forgotten little car: the mid '90s Plymouth Acclaim. Although it did share the same platform as the Dodge Spirit, which could be had in R/T form.

http://www.imcdb.org/images/065/655.jpg

Haha, when I worked at the Chevy dealer, there was this service advisor that nobody really liked, and he had a teal Acclaim. Well one day a few of the techs went out to his car and cut the two c's out of the badge on the trunklid, so it said "A laim"

drewsdeville
07-02-10, 10:51 AM
The only reasons that I didn't buy a D-Body at the time was because I thought it was too big for ME to enjoy on a daily basis, atleast I thought so at the time, but after driving my friend's '96 FWB a few times recently, I've realized that isn't the truth anymore. Looking back at it now, the real reason I couldn't have gotten the FWB is because nobody in their right mind would finance a car that's 14 years old, and unless I paid cash for it, which wasn't possible at the time, it would have been impossible to buy it. Not to mention that they're few and far between and generally sell fast (high demand...?)

GM bailed on an active market. Look how many old fogies you see in newer Grand Marquis & Town Cars. The market's still there, you don't seem to want to believe it though.




Right, you are the b/d-body enthusiast and you can STILL find ways that it's not practical to daily drive one...that was my point. You being the enthusiast should be able to overlook some of it's shortcomings, yet you still could get over them (again, outside of financing). Remember?You admit the Regal is better for all weather, has TC, is smaller. You don't feel like you'd want to drive a large d-body every day? If you, the platform enthusiast, can't handle that, what makes you think others will?

I guess, in all, after so many posts on a Cadillac forum, and a few discussions about your argument for the b/d-body, your ownership of the platform you talk up so much would really strengthen your point. If you really wanted one, you'd have one. Period. Shopping for a good deal just takes some time and patience. Like I said, the guy about 10 minutes away from me has been trying to sell a Roadmaster since springtime. He's looking for you, man.

The GM and TC haven't sold well since the 1990's (gee, right when GM decided to pull out. Stupid GM, trying to make a profit like other manufacturers). The only reason the panther was kept around was to milk the fleet sales, which was/is a low-profit market. The Panther has been hanging on by a thread ever since. Why do you think no money was invested into that platform for the following 15 years until it's death? The last major update to the platform was in '91-'92. Anything after that was just a few minor tweaks.

Even the crownvic.net members themselves can recognize and admit this...straight from the enthusiasts themselves. Why can't you?

If there's an active market for that crap out there, SOMEONE would have tapped it by now. Do you think that if the panther was a hot seller that Toyota would have stood by and watched Ford make all of that money? Toyota is a marketing genius. Hell, even after the media took advantage of their recall situation, they are still able to sell cars and trucks like hotcakes. If Toyota tapped into this "neglected" market, they'd find a way to sell it. Sure, it's not an American brand, that's what everyone said when the Tundra came around. Look at the progress that's made. Anyway, I haven't heard of any plans for a full sized, full framed, V8 powered RWD car from Toyota, have you? Hmm, perhaps the market longer exists.

HAZZARDJOHN
07-02-10, 11:18 AM
I daily drove a roadmaster for years in MN and it was the single best CAR I have ever owned in snow, got 25 mpg, was comfortable and reliable and IMO looked great. The only reason to not Daily drive one now is if you bought one clean enough to meet my high standards the car is 14-18 years old, it would be tough to maintain the cleanliness of a car that old that is subjected to salt for at least a decade. If they made them today or in the last 5 years I would still be daily driving them. None of these crappy throwaway cars made today have the class or the ability to maintain a following like the B/D bodies do. The current cars coming outr are easily forgettable and will constantly be tossed aside for the next latest thing. Kinda like iphones or MP3 players.

~HJ

Bro-Ham
07-02-10, 11:47 AM
I'm a C body guy. :)

OffThaHorseCEO
07-02-10, 11:55 AM
I daily drove a roadmaster for years in MN and it was the single best CAR I have ever owned in snow, got 25 mpg, was comfortable and reliable and IMO looked great. The only reason to not Daily drive one now is if you bought one clean enough to meet my high standards the car is 14-18 years old, it would be tough to maintain the cleanliness of a car that old that is subjected to salt for at least a decade. If they made them today or in the last 5 years I would still be daily driving them. None of these crappy throwaway cars made today have the class or the ability to maintain a following like the B/D bodies do. The current cars coming outr are easily forgettable and will constantly be tossed aside for the next latest thing. Kinda like iphones or MP3 players.

~HJ

+1. i loved my roadmaster, until a lady ran a stop sign. theyre so tough to find in good shape around here though.

Bro-Ham
07-02-10, 12:22 PM
Drew and Chad, You guys are two quarrelers, it's time to be gentlemen. :)

Drew: stop rubbing Chad's raw nerve, he knows.

Chad: stop making us rub your raw nerve - it's painful to hear all the excuses - you're Chadillac! Get a Cadillac! :)

drewsdeville
07-02-10, 12:29 PM
I'm not trying to rub a raw nerve, I just don't understand his logic.

It's one thing to like the car for what it is, I'm not arguing anything against that. He if loves the b/d-body, that's great. But to say that GM wasn't justified in killing a dying breed of automobile is ignorance.

I don't understand that logic in the support for the theoretical continuance of the platform.

The platform is dead because no one buys it, get over it.

Jesda
07-02-10, 12:54 PM
Right, you are the b/d-body enthusiast and you can STILL find ways that it's not practical to daily drive one...that was my point. You being the enthusiast should be able to overlook some of it's shortcomings, yet you still could get over them (again, outside of financing). Remember?You admit the Regal is better for all weather, has TC, is smaller. You don't feel like you'd want to drive a large d-body every day? If you, the platform enthusiast, can't handle that, what makes you think others will?

I guess, in all, after so many posts on a Cadillac forum, and a few discussions about your argument for the b/d-body, your ownership of the platform you talk up so much would really strengthen your point. If you really wanted one, you'd have one. Period. Shopping for a good deal just takes some time and patience. Like I said, the guy about 10 minutes away from me has been trying to sell a Roadmaster since springtime. He's looking for you, man.

The GM and TC haven't sold well since the 1990's (gee, right when GM decided to pull out. Stupid GM, trying to make a profit like other manufacturers). The only reason the panther was kept around was to milk the fleet sales, which was/is a low-profit market. The Panther has been hanging on by a thread ever since. Why do you think no money was invested into that platform for the following 15 years until it's death? The last major update to the platform was in '91-'92. Anything after that was just a few minor tweaks.

Even the crownvic.net members themselves can recognize and admit this...straight from the enthusiasts themselves. Why can't you?

If there's an active market for that crap out there, SOMEONE would have tapped it by now. Do you think that if the panther was a hot seller that Toyota would have stood by and watched Ford make all of that money? Toyota is a marketing genius. Hell, even after the media took advantage of their recall situation, they are still able to sell cars and trucks like hotcakes. If Toyota tapped into this "neglected" market, they'd find a way to sell it. Sure, it's not an American brand, that's what everyone said when the Tundra came around. Look at the progress that's made. Anyway, I haven't heard of any plans for a full sized, full framed, V8 powered RWD car from Toyota, have you? Hmm, perhaps the market longer exists.

You should take this into the other thread, the one where you should have left this debate.

drewsdeville
07-02-10, 01:03 PM
You should take this into the other thread, the one where you should have left this debate.

Any of my posts are more justified than yours at this point, even if I started typing gibberish. I'm a Caddy owner posting on a Caddy owners board.

How 'bout you?

You should probably take your post over to the Jeep or dishwasher boards.

HAZZARDJOHN
07-02-10, 01:24 PM
I own a cadillac and I find most of your posts annoying and confrontational. Just sayin. :stirpot: :D

~HJ

Jesda
07-02-10, 01:27 PM
Any of my posts are more justified than yours at this point, even if I started typing gibberish. I'm a Caddy owner posting on a Caddy owners board.

How 'bout you?

You should probably take your post over to the Jeep or dishwasher boards.

I've enjoyed three wonderful Cadillacs in my seven years as a part of this community.

I strongly suggest turning off the computer and getting some fresh air before you make an even bigger fool of yourself.

Stingroo
07-02-10, 01:32 PM
Jesda for President.

drewsdeville
07-02-10, 01:32 PM
I've enjoyed three wonderful Cadillacs in my seven years as a part of this community.



Uh huh, go on.

I've enjoyed a few Oldsmobiles in the past as well (hey, one was even a b-body). However, I don't feel the need to go over to their boards, sit in their lounge, and reminisce about times passed and interrupting discussions with irrelevant-to-the-topic posts like #91. Me make a fool of myself? Possibly. But you sir, take the cake in my boat.

Might be time to move on to activities that are more relevant to your current situation.

Koooop
07-02-10, 02:28 PM
Any of my posts are more justified than yours at this point, even if I started typing gibberish. I'm a Caddy owner posting on a Caddy owners board.

How 'bout you?

You should probably take your post over to the Jeep or dishwasher boards.


Dishwasher boards.


:zing:

ga_etc
07-02-10, 03:00 PM
Any of my posts are more justified than yours at this point, even if I started typing gibberish. I'm a Caddy owner posting on a Caddy owners board.

How 'bout you?

You should probably take your post over to the Jeep or dishwasher boards.

You don't like the company around here, huh?

drewsdeville
07-02-10, 03:35 PM
You don't like the company around here, huh?

Oh I do. I do very much so in the tech sections. In the lounge, it's amusing.

Good times, good times.

Jesda
07-02-10, 03:38 PM
The troll has been fed.

drewsdeville
07-02-10, 04:16 PM
The troll has been fed.

I'm sure you are referring to me as the troll. That would mean that you need to practice what you preach. You should probably start now.


:banghead:

77CDV
07-02-10, 04:40 PM
YouTube- Cat Fight

Submariner409
07-02-10, 05:22 PM
Least interesting - of the cars I've owned...........a 1953 Morris Minor drophead coupe.
36 screaming flathead 4-cylinder horsepower. 4 on the floor.

Sevillian273
07-02-10, 05:31 PM
I nominate the 1961 Mercedes Benz 190b.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-02-10, 06:12 PM
Chad: stop making us rub your raw nerve - it's painful to hear all the excuses - you're Chadillac! Get a Cadillac! :)

Dave, you're a heck of a great guy, and I'm telling you, if I COULD buy a nice RWD full sized Fleetwood Brougham, then I sure would, but like I said before, nobody's gonna finance a 14 year old car, no matter how mint it is or how low the miles are, nobody's gonna take that risk. I don't have the cash right now to go out and buy one, but I suppose if I really had to feed my hunger, I could take out a personal loan and do it that way, but in all honesty, I've got bigger priorities....like moving out with friends. Two of my best friends got solid jobs after their college days are over and now they want to move out and I'd like to get in with them. So I suppose I could trade my GS in on a FWD N* powered Cadillac, just to have a Cadillac, and move in with them, but I don't think that'd be the most fiscally responsible choice, considering how costly those can get.

On the other hand, my friends that have the classic Cadillac Fleetwood Broughams, among other cars, never moved out of their parents house, which isn't what I want to do.




The platform is dead because no one buys it, get over it.

Ok, so the Panther platform wasn't the most popular car that Ford had offered in it's later years, but I'm not kidding you when I say I passed probably 5-6 late model Grand Marquis yesterday on the way back from Rochester on MN-HWY 52, all of them were clean models driven by old people, and FoMoCo didn't make nearly as many GM's as they did TC's. The main reason GM didn't kill the b/d bodies in the '80s like they had planned was because some customers would NOT have a FWD unibody car, and they wanted to keep them happy as long as they could. OK, so they were likely all older folks, but they had to cater to that demographic. I mean even now, look at the insane sales numbers Chrysler's RWD, V-8 powered, full sized Chargers and 300's have made in the last few years....do you honestly think people wouldn't have bought them if they were body on frame? Does most of the population care if it's body on frame or unibody? I don't think so. The point I'm trying to make is that some people really like and want full sized RWD cars, no matter if it's unibody or body on frame. Do you think body on frame cars would be more "fun" to drive and more responsive if they didn't have solid rear axles and perhaps had independent rear suspension? I bet that'd make a difference.

RWD + full size is making a resurgence, even if it is unibody, which while not my choice, is better than FWD unibody. I mean, look even Hyundai is offering a car competitive with the S-Class. Hyundai!!! Pontiac had that wonderful G8 for a while, and Cadillac was instructed just recently to design and build a car in the S-Class/ 7 Series realm. FOR ****'S SAKE IT'S ****ING TIME!!! :) :)


Any of my posts are more justified than yours at this point, even if I started typing gibberish. I'm a Caddy owner posting on a Caddy owners board.

How 'bout you?

You should probably take your post over to the Jeep or dishwasher boards.

No, Jesda's essential around here. As I'm sure you've noticed around here, many of us don't have Cadillacs (anymore), but we're all Cadillac enthusiasts and we still love talking cars no matter what we currently drive. We're pretty open to new cars as long as the members on the board are easy to get along with and respectful...

Bro-Ham
07-02-10, 06:40 PM
Chad, You're a funny one. :) I didn't even have to read the latest that you wrote to me above - I know your situation like the back of my hand at this point. :) Listen, I'm going to be in town, be watching for my banana boat on a highway near you very soon. :)

Bro-Ham
07-02-10, 06:43 PM
Craig, You're right, CAT FIGHT! :) Classic! Life's too short to spend too much time worrying about inconsequential things, especially those things in other people's lives - if you don't realize that now you'll figure it out sooner or later, hopefully, and you will have bliss and tranquility in your life. For me there are always cocktails when I start to veer off course. In fact it's cocktail hour right now, how convenient. :)

billc83
07-02-10, 07:22 PM
The Cadillac Forums without Jesda would be like a porn flick without sex...

Kev
07-02-10, 09:42 PM
:bancha::lock::hurr::bancha:

EChas3
07-02-10, 10:25 PM
Defense for Citreon, Le Car, Roadmonsters, Aveo... No one standing up for the Chevette Diesel?

Hmmm.

Much as I'd like to agree that a diesel Chevette is less interesting that a particular Le Crap, the high compression of the Chevette mill lends more interest than gas powered Renaults.

Volvos & Roadmasters are out of the running for least interesting. They both have their sycophants. Who collects Le Craps?

Koooop
07-03-10, 02:28 AM
Much as I'd like to agree that a diesel Chevette is less interesting that a particular Le Crap, the high compression of the Chevette mill lends more interest than gas powered Renaults.

Volvos & Roadmasters are out of the running for least interesting. They both have their sycophants. Who collects Le Craps?


As much as I hate to say it, the Le Car was decent for the day, especially the Le Car R5 Turbo. I'd go so far as to call the R5 the Mangusta of ridiculous little cars from that era. :worship: The base Le Car at least had that giant sun roof.

High compression Chevette? Someone gave me one of those. High compression my ass.

I~LUV~Caddys8792
07-03-10, 02:48 AM
My uncle taught my aunt how to drive stick in an '83 Chevette diesel. He said it would barely hold 60 mph on a completely flat surface.

77CDV
07-03-10, 03:25 AM
Sounds typical Chevette, diesel or not.