: Lack of power...not sure if this is an issue.



robb257731
06-30-10, 12:45 PM
I live in a city that has an upper and lower component...I live on top of an escarpment, and work down below. The grade of the escarpment access roads isn't that bad, but you wouldn't want to try to ride a bike up it either.

I've had my 5.7 Brougham off the road for about a month, as I bought a new daily driver and had to sell the old one, and wasn't prepared to insure 3 cars at once. I've just got Edward back on the road this past Friday.

Since putting the car back one the road, I've noticed a lack of 'oomph' taking it up the escarpment access roads, and sometimes while passing on a level highway. It seems to want to top out at 70km/hr. If I floor it on a grade, it stays at 70, and will then suddenly downshift and get up to 80 or so. It's not that bad on level expressways, but it can be a little sluggish getting up to speed from the on ramp. I hadn't noticed this being quite so pronounced before.

Am I expecting too much from the car on a grade, or does it sound like there's something going on? I wouldn't think that it'd be from sitting for a month. Would the A/C cause that much of a drain in power? The engine runs as smooth as ever, no weird noises,etc.

outsider
06-30-10, 12:56 PM
it could be the fuel filter or something...letting a car sit can do some strange things to it, man. especially older cars.

Maybe try running some seafoam or something through it?

csbuckn
06-30-10, 01:01 PM
How are your ignition related components?

robb257731
06-30-10, 01:14 PM
The plugs were changed after I bought the car last year. Had a new starter put in last August. Everything seems fine aside from the power lag.

I'm not sure about using that Seafoam stuff. Didn't someone post last year about having some big disaster because of using it? I remember as a teenager, a friend of mine used to swear by Slick 50, but I remember hearing stuff like that is basically snake oil.

Now that I think about it, the last time I had something like this happen with the car, it was nearly out of gas, and it hesitated going up the hill, which made sense. It cleared up after I filled the tank, but it's kind of feeling like that now, albeit to a lesser degree. Maybe it is the fuel filter.

outsider
06-30-10, 01:25 PM
never had a bad experience with seafoam...

on my '87, I run it directly through the carb from time to time to clean it up, then pour the rest of the bottle into the gas tank.

On my 95, I usually put a bottle in the tank if i'm going on a long road trip.

csbuckn
06-30-10, 02:53 PM
I think the person on here that had the bad experience with sea foam used it the wrong way, but I dont remember exactly. What about wires, cap and rotor?

mjs182004
06-30-10, 03:12 PM
It sounds like the fuel filter to me. Mine did the same thing when I first got it, hence why I got it. anyways did all the tune up stuff and still nothing. never thought about a fuel filter until someone asked if I had replaced it. viola its been working like a champ ever since (2 yrs. ago)

sven914
06-30-10, 04:15 PM
I would run a bottle of Gumout with Regane (http://www.gumout.com/ourProducts/ReganeFSC.asp) through your next tank. That would clear out any gunk in the injectors or on the plugs, from the car sitting.

robb257731
06-30-10, 04:54 PM
I believe the wires/cap/rotor were replaced when I bought the car, but will have to double check.

I'm taking him out for a long roadtrip for Canada Day tomorrow, so may try one of the additives above.

Thanks for the suggestions!

The-Dullahan
06-30-10, 07:07 PM
Try some Gumout, it may just be sludginess in the lines. As for Seafoam, I ran it through my '87 and the improvement was immediatley noticeable. Still a tiny, pathetic 307 that can barely move the extra chassis of my car, but certainly runs much smoother.

albymangled
06-30-10, 08:23 PM
Seems to be a lot of faith here in the "miracle cure" lines of product.

Well I'm sorry guys, ask any mechanic worth his salt and he will tell you there is no such thing as a "spanner in a can".

Yep, some of the products may get you a positive result of sorts at least on a temporary basis but the is no substitute for timely preventative maintenance rather than ongoing repairs.

OK back to your current problems.....topping out at 70km/hr for a 5.7ltr car is woeful, and I don't care if it is a big heavy mofo....

Definitely check out ya fuel filter, if it's blocked (even partially) then it's starving your engine and no can of Seafoam, Gumout or whatever is going to clean a blocked fuel filter for you....(if it could, what kind of corrosive gunk are you passing through your fuel system / engine in order to melt away rust, scale and or dirt and is it just eating the filter element and allowing the muck free passage of your car's internals?)....

As for a "long roadtrip" in a car that can only pull 70km/hr (perhaps you have a different idea of "long roadtrip" to me) it's going to be tedious for one and IMHO you risk an unpleasant wait for a tow truck at the side of the road....

Just my $0.02 AUD...........

Stingroo
06-30-10, 09:05 PM
lol .02 AUD. That made me laugh.

outsider
06-30-10, 09:57 PM
I'm not saying it's a miracle cure, I'm just saying it definitely cleans out a lot of carbon and other build up...as obvious by looking behind the car after running it through. You'll see black crap and smoke coming out for sure

sven914
07-01-10, 01:01 AM
Seems to be a lot of faith here in the "miracle cure" lines of product.

Well I'm sorry guys, ask any mechanic worth his salt and he will tell you there is no such thing as a "spanner in a can".

Yep, some of the products may get you a positive result of sorts at least on a temporary basis but the is no substitute for timely preventative maintenance rather than ongoing repairs.



Agreed. There are no miracle cures for a car and some people do harp on the benefits of fuel and oil additives, falsely believing that every bottle will bring their car one tank closer to factory new. But this preventative maintenance you speak of entails the use of fuel system and induction cleaners; much like Seafoam and Gumout, except they're put out by Chevron and are administered by a certified professional;).

Ian6
07-02-10, 01:40 AM
i think the guy who had a bad experience with seafoam put it in his oil and didnt change the oil soon enough

robb257731
07-02-10, 02:20 AM
Okay, here's my update. Problem not solved.

First off....Mangled, you are right, our definitions of a long road trip are likely completely different. I was in AU on a highschool exchange 20 years ago and there was a whole lotta nothing in between little towns. Also, I meant the car tops out around 70km/hour on the relatively steep grade on my way home from work, not on level surfaces. Today I took the car about 350kms round trip. In my mind that shoudl be enough to give the old boy some exercise and blow out the cobwebs.

I couldn't find Seafoam up here, so used gum out.

The car handled perfectly at city speeds. Even at highway speeds it handled fine, as long as the acceleration was done smoothly. The car got up to 120-130km without any hesitation whatsoever when applied gradually.

The issue appears to be when I have to give it sudden gas...ie, passing. Where you would expect the car to have a sudden boost of power and pull forward, it kind of shudders and falters. Ease off on the accelerator and it smoothes back out. It also happens when the cruise control is on....ie, hitting resume on cruise after stopping for a light. I bring the car up to 60 or so using the accelerator, and when I hit resume on the cruise, it falters somewhat before smoothing out.

It seems to really falter once it reaches 70km/hour, but then once past 75 or so it smoothes out again and reacts normally.

It doesn't do it every time, but enough that it's a concern.

I'm going to have to take the car in to get it checked. Seems like the consensus is the fuel filter? I don't know if it's ever been changed on this car, as I've only had it for a year, and I know I didn't have it changed.

mjs182004
07-02-10, 10:38 AM
Its gotta be the fuel filter! I believe its 8 bucks and very simple to change.

robb257731
07-02-10, 11:56 AM
To the FSM!!!

water walkin warrior
07-02-10, 12:20 PM
Ok....I'm officially going to change my fuel filter this weekend too. My car is just way to bogged down sometimes. Yes, it's a 307, but it's still a V8! Gotta get it running stronger. The next step will be the plugs and wires. The last time they were changed was at 50k and it's turned over since then.

Hey James, wanna help when I get to the plugs n wires since you had soooo much fun with yours. :)

Crzynickratkllr
07-02-10, 02:06 PM
My 91 felt like it was dragging an anchor around and I couldn't figure out where my lost power went to. Then, one day, my fuel pump failed. After I replaced it, My car ran again and felt like the anchor was gone. Maybe a weak fuel pump could be the cause of you're symptoms. I would, of course, rule out all other simpler fixes first. Then maybe run a fuel pressure check.

sven914
07-02-10, 02:25 PM
As for the Gumout, the fix won't really be noticeable until you refill the tank, and only if you used the Regane (the other stuff is crap and won't do anything).

JamesC
07-02-10, 03:18 PM
Ok....I'm officially going to change my fuel filter this weekend too. My car is just way to bogged down sometimes. Yes, it's a 307, but it's still a V8! Gotta get it running stronger. The next step will be the plugs and wires. The last time they were changed was at 50k and it's turned over since then.

Hey James, wanna help when I get to the plugs n wires since you had soooo much fun with yours. :)

Oh you bet, it was just so much fun I'd love to do it all over again! [sarcasm] Ha! I'm sure you'll do fine though, I mean I did it. Best of luck to you with it nevertheless!

As for following this thread... it's making me consider replacing my fuel filter too, haha. Never replaced one before, but as far as I know, it's not too difficult.

robb257731
07-02-10, 09:35 PM
I just looked up the procedure in the FSM....sounds fairly simple, which means I should be able to handle it.
1) disconnect negative battery cable
2) loosen gas cap
3) remove fuel filter bracket attaching bolt
4)Grasp filter and one fuel pipe fitting. Twist quick-connect fitting 1/4 turn in each direction to loosen any dirt within fitting. Repeat for other fuel pipe fitting., Using compressed air, blow out dirt from quick connect fittings at both ends of fuel filter.
5) Squeeze plastic tabs of male end connector and pull connection apart. Repeat for other fitting.
6) attach new filter.

The-Dullahan
07-03-10, 12:42 AM
Hey James, wanna help when I get to the plugs n wires since you had soooo much fun with yours. :)

It's actually quite simple to change the plugs and wires on a 307, aside from what happened to James, which was just a random string of bad luck.

James.
As for Fuel Filters, that's easy, but only on my car with the in-line ones. I have no idea what the detail of changing one of the "normal" filters entails, but from what the Haynes manual tells me and what I've seen that these "normal" fuel filters LOOK like, it can't be that difficult. I wouldn't think it would be as hard as those damned plugs that betrayed you.

JamesC
07-03-10, 01:51 AM
Yeah what happened to me sucked, bleh. I don't think the plugs had been changed for a bit.

As for the fuel filter, I perused through my service manual and located how to replace the fuel filter. Doesn't seem too difficult, I just how to get out there under the hood and take a gander! :bouncy:

HUF
07-04-10, 07:57 AM
I live in a city that has an upper and lower component...I live on top of an escarpment, and work down below. The grade of the escarpment access roads isn't that bad, but you wouldn't want to try to ride a bike up it either.

I've had my 5.7 Brougham off the road for about a month, as I bought a new daily driver and had to sell the old one, and wasn't prepared to insure 3 cars at once. I've just got Edward back on the road this past Friday.

Since putting the car back one the road, I've noticed a lack of 'oomph' taking it up the escarpment access roads, and sometimes while passing on a level highway. It seems to want to top out at 70km/hr. If I floor it on a grade, it stays at 70, and will then suddenly downshift and get up to 80 or so. It's not that bad on level expressways, but it can be a little sluggish getting up to speed from the on ramp. I hadn't noticed this being quite so pronounced before.

Am I expecting too much from the car on a grade, or does it sound like there's something going on? I wouldn't think that it'd be from sitting for a month. Would the A/C cause that much of a drain in power? The engine runs as smooth as ever, no weird noises,etc.
My car does it too and mostly exactly around 70 km/h = 43 MPH. It can do the same at other speeds too, but mostly at 43-45 MPH. I kind of learned to avoid the conditions when such a hesitation happens. Looks like the previous owner had similar complaints, and the dealer did the usual stuff 15,000 miles ago: replaced spark plugs, performed "inductive service", replaced fuel filter, flushed the transmission. Looks like it did not solve the problem either. I have checked the fuel pressure with the gauge attached to the windshield. The numbers were within specs. I have also replaced the EGR valve. Could not find any visible/audible vacuum leaks. Looks like it will take a lot of work and throwing parts before the problem is solved if it is ever solved...

Despite everybody says it is not transmission-related, the fact it happens mostly around 43-44 MPH makes me think that PCM programmed shifts are somehow related.

water walkin warrior
07-05-10, 11:18 AM
I attempted to change my fuel filter and ran into a problem. Dang! The smaller bolt that goes into the larger bolt at the front of the carb got stripped while I was trying to get it loose. Now I need to find a replacement piece after I either get it loose using some PV Blaster or cutting it. I'm kind of thinking junkyard, but wondered if they sell this part at stores or anywhere. Should the bolt loosen over the fuel line like I think it should? Any advice I haven't thought of yet?
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu266/waterwalkinwarrior/Hammy/fuel%20filter/StrippedBolt3.jpg
http://i654.photobucket.com/albums/uu266/waterwalkinwarrior/Hammy/fuel%20filter/StrippedBolt5.jpg
Thanks for any advice you can give...or prayers that I can get it off without cutting the line. lol (seriously, though)
http://www.carburetion.com/images/fittings/251660curve.jpg
I just found the above part on a Rochester parts website. It looks like the nut and the line are all one piece. ??? Anyone with experience going through this predicament?

mjs182004
07-05-10, 11:20 AM
Vise Grips would probably work.

Stingroo
07-05-10, 12:36 PM
It's a flare nut, just like a brake line. It is supposed to slide over the line.

water walkin warrior
07-09-10, 10:45 AM
Finally got the fuel filter changed last night. The threads on the flare nut are ok, but the other part is mangled. lol I saw online where a guy with a corvette changed the flare nut by cutting off just the flared end, put a new nut on, then made a flared end with a tool. I may do that one day, but for now it's staying.

I noticed a little improvement. Not a head turning difference, but better. We'll see how the MPG does next week after I filler up.

outsider
07-09-10, 11:30 AM
cool. good job man!

robb257731
07-09-10, 03:56 PM
Update:

Ugh....so the car went to the dealer this morning, and I just had a call back. He took it out and felt it bog down, and confirmed what most of you had already suggested....change the fuel filter. Fine dandy.

He ALSO told me that they looked at the plugs, etc, and apparently everything is original. As in 19 years old....I could have sworn that I had these items replaced last year. I'm hoping that I'm just confusing what I had done on my 1992 Brougham with the 1991.

It was suggested that I replace the plugs, wires, cap, rotor and having the timing adjusted as they felt it was a little off. The price was $700 (parts & labour) plus tax, but again, he said that was something I might WANT to have done, not something I have to do.

Does that sound like a fair price? Bear in mind it'll be in Canadian dollars, not US.

outsider
07-09-10, 04:02 PM
all of those parts are dirt cheap...

Putting them in is also very easy with the exception of some of the plugs...but going in through the inner fenders (remove splash guards) should be easy to get to the plugs...

You can spend $700 to have them do all of this, or you can do it yourself for under $100.

robb257731
07-09-10, 04:16 PM
all of those parts are dirt cheap...

Putting them in is also very easy with the exception of some of the plugs...but going in through the inner fenders (remove splash guards) should be easy to get to the plugs...

You can spend $700 to have them do all of this, or you can do it yourself for under $100.

I'm envisioning siezed plugs, then breaking them off and being well and truly f*cked.

Stingroo
07-09-10, 04:18 PM
You're never 100% screwed. There's always a way. :)

jayoldschool
07-09-10, 04:46 PM
I could have sworn that I had these items replaced last year.

You probably did. Dealers need to make money ;)

Don't pay someone to do basic stuff like plugs. They won't be seized, you have iron heads.

sven914
07-09-10, 06:29 PM
I noticed a little improvement. Not a head turning difference, but better. We'll see how the MPG does next week after I filler up.

I changed mine last month and my economy went up to 15 mpg, over the 13 mpg I had been experiencing for the last year. Now I just need figure out how to get back up the 16 mpg I was getting when I bought the car.

robb257731
07-09-10, 06:46 PM
Replacing the fuel filter seems to have stopped the bogging down issue, so that's good.

CdnCaddi
07-09-10, 11:32 PM
Do the fuel filter.If you do everything at once you won't know what fixed it.

robb257731
07-10-10, 11:57 AM
Turns out it WASN'T the fuel filter, as it is still doing it when I head up a hill. Drives perfectly otherwise, plenty of power, etc. Head up a grade and BAM it bogs down. Disconcerting. Friend of mine does all of his own car repairs...albeit on BMWs, will see if he can give me a hand with this.

outsider
07-10-10, 12:21 PM
maybe it's your fuel pump? able to pump on level ground but going against gravity it might be having a hard time?

CdnCaddi
07-10-10, 03:00 PM
Now have a shop check the fuel pressure.

robb257731
07-10-10, 04:49 PM
Now have a shop check the fuel pressure.

This will sound like a dumb question, but I'm guessing that's how they figure out whether the pump is bad?

sven914
07-10-10, 10:58 PM
^They should do pressure and output test. A pump that has good pressure, may still not be able to deliver the right amount of fuel.

robb257731
07-13-10, 10:19 AM
all of those parts are dirt cheap...

Putting them in is also very easy with the exception of some of the plugs...but going in through the inner fenders (remove splash guards) should be easy to get to the plugs...

You can spend $700 to have them do all of this, or you can do it yourself for under $100.

Okay, know what? I'm going to attempt this on my own...how hard can it be? I know those are famous last words, but I figure if my dad could have done all the work on his own cars, then I can try some simple stuff.

What kind of parts should I use? Delco? What kind of sparkplugs? The dealer said I didn't need platinum plugs, and they were something like $5.00 a piece. What kind of tools do I need? I've got some of my dad's old stuff hanging around, but I'm not sure what's left. My parents' garage was broken into shortly before he died, and stuff wasn't replaced. Is there anything special I need to take the plugs out?

outsider
07-13-10, 10:37 AM
You'll need a spark plug socket...

Also, be careful not to break the plugs when removing them. Spray em down with some PB Blast or something simliar before cranking on them.

Good luck! And remember to index your plugs for best performance!

robb257731
07-13-10, 10:54 AM
You'll need a spark plug socket...

Also, be careful not to break the plugs when removing them. Spray em down with some PB Blast or something simliar before cranking on them.

Good luck! And remember to index your plugs for best performance!

What do you mean by "index your plugs"? Remember, you're talking to someone who considers adding windshield washer fluid a technical accomplishment.:bonkers:

With the socket set, will I need one of those extender things?

outsider
07-13-10, 11:53 AM
http://www.fordmuscle.com/archives/2000/07/indexplugs/
there's a good article on how to index your plugs.

As for an extender...it never hurts to have one. I'm not familiar with your particular car so I dunno if one would be required, but I like to have a few different size extenders on hand when I'm working.

robb257731
07-13-10, 12:11 PM
Thanks, that's good information and easy to understand.

jayoldschool
07-13-10, 05:43 PM
lol, don't worry about indexing your plugs. You will never notice the difference.

You can do it! Start a new how to thread with lots of pics, and you just might make it into the FAQs!

robb257731
07-13-10, 09:53 PM
lol, don't worry about indexing your plugs. You will never notice the difference.

You can do it! Start a new how to thread with lots of pics, and you just might make it into the FAQs!

Oh heck, I dunno about that. It'd be more like the Red Green extravaganza.

Jay, where should I get my parts? Would Crappy Tire have everything I need? I hear people talking about Rockauto alot...are their prices worth the shipping? Should I just go to the parts department of my dealer? I know nothing about these things.

jayoldschool
07-13-10, 10:04 PM
Rob, you need to find a local parts place. Think NAPA or something like that. Look in the yellow pages for "Auto Parts". You want to buy where auto repair places buy, and you want to pay the same price as they do. No Canadian Tire, and DEFINITELY no dealer! You will get it cheaper from a parts place than rockauto incl shipping.

Try this place:

http://www.hamilton-auto.com/

You can ask for a couple of prices, then call Canadian Tire to compare if you like.

CdnCaddi
07-14-10, 02:42 AM
Go to A&A on Woodward Ave near Burlington St.

robb257731
07-14-10, 09:55 AM
Thanks!

water walkin warrior
07-14-10, 01:26 PM
I've been getting parts at Car Quest. They seem to have the lowest prices I can find.

jayoldschool
07-14-10, 01:55 PM
Rob's in Canada ;)