: Need Help with Coach Builder ID



wrf521
06-15-10, 08:40 PM
Hi, I hope it is not a breach of forum protocol to launch my first post with a puzzle.

Can anyone identify the coach builder of this 76 Fleetwood Flower Car?

http://www.fototime.com/F212C129189697A/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/44D7E2AA62AC363/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/825CE6A508E58E5/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/9045B5A25C71D16/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/27E1C79A819F75C/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/D498C7361176D28/standard.jpg

http://www.fototime.com/2D754846AD5D4C1/standard.jpg

Stingroo
06-16-10, 10:13 PM
Of course not! Here in the RWD forum we love puzzles. :)

Bro-Ham
06-17-10, 12:51 AM
Here's one part of the puzzle: it's not a 76. It is a 1980. Google PCS, or Professional Car Society, and you'll be able to consult with funeral car enthusiasts who should be able to answer your question as to what specific coach builder created it.

csbuckn
06-17-10, 01:42 AM
Is that grill specific to a flower car? It looks different than others I've saw.

Muster coach and limo, from the badge on the back, has a web site and they may be able to help you out.

The-Dullahan
06-17-10, 02:17 AM
WHere the devil did you find all these nice Caddy's just sitting around? Any photos of that Hearse there?

Now, I have always been more about Hearses, because what kind of sick weirdo drives a flower car?

Anyhow, given the design of the rear door I can already tell you it is almost definitely an Accubuilt, as that was a famous design for their Hearses, though the lack of a pinstripe has me puzzled. The lack of Opera Lamps makes me near 100% Certain that she isn't a Superior, as does the lack of a plaque, though some funeral homes have been known to remove them (Those BASTARDS) but if they were going to remove them, why would the keep the Muster tag) The problem is that without interior details it makes it difficult to tell what it is and even so, most flower cars were not as definite inside as Hearses, but usually enough to guess the maker. The Thing about Muster is that they have dealt with a number of smaller and REALLY small coach-builders over the years (and still deal with some smaller ones) and if I recall correctly, Muster has commissioned more than a few special designs over the years. The company is located out of Kentucky as I recall and you may be able to contact them for help, they are still in business and business is booming. They also own the single greatest amusement park on the planet, which is basically about 1.5 -rugby-fields of professional cars. If We ever have a meet in Kentucky, I probably will make it 90% there before getting distracted, take a "quick side trip" and end up on the back of a milk carton.

Bro-Ham
06-17-10, 04:12 PM
...given the design of the rear door I can already tell you it is almost definitely an Accubuilt, as that was a famous design for their Hearses...The lack of Opera Lamps makes me near 100% Certain that she isn't a Superior...

Hey Dull, Accubuilt is the parent company that came into existence about 10 years ago as a consolidation of S&S, Superior, Miller Meteor, and Eureka brands. Since the last year or so Accubuilt now only builds S&S and Superior. There has never been an Accubuilt branded professional car, only the old school names they purchased actually went on the cars they made.

The car pictured here has a 1980 Cad grille. 1980, like 2010, was a year of severe economic recession so there weren't many cars made. The 1980 RWD Cadillac grille was unique to that model year, unlike 1982-86 which were all fairly similar.

sven914
06-17-10, 04:15 PM
Is that grill specific to a flower car? It looks different than others I've saw.



That's the standard 4 bar waterfall grill for 1980.

And Dullahan, didn't Caribou make flower cars in the '80s. I think they also had those little rear doors, and they were build out of de Villes (I can't read an '80 VIN, so I'm not going to pretend to know if the pictured car is a Fleetwood Brougham or a de Ville).

The-Dullahan
06-17-10, 04:25 PM
Hey Dull, Accubuilt is the parent company that came into existence about 10 years ago as a consolidation of S&S, Superior, Miller Meteor, and Eureka brands. Since the last year or so Accubuilt now only builds S&S and Superior. There has never been an Accubuilt branded professional car, only the old school names they purchased actually went on the cars they made.

The car pictured here has a 1980 Cad grille. 1980, like 2010, was a year of severe economic recession so there weren't many cars made. The 1980 RWD Cadillac grille was unique to that model year, unlike 1982-86 which were all fairly similar.

Quite so, but more accurately what I meant by that is that it is most likely from one of said companies. Once again, without better photos it is difficult to tell, but resembles S&S Hearses (Haven't seen many S&S Flower Cars) and the rear "door" is very Eureka-looking (Though their designs did see some change in the late-70's-early-80's. While I am aware Accubuilt was not even a thought at the time, I typically use their name to refer to these four larger companies altogether as one.

Flower Cars have never been my cup of tea. I suppose if I wanted a flatbed car I would purchase one, as it would make a nice work truck. I believe I will always see Flower Cars of the Mullets of the used car world, certainly moreso than the El Camino. On a semi-related note, I found a 70's Eldorado (I think 1970 actually) a while back had the entire rear side turned into a flatbed, ala El Camino. My first comment was that it looked like a Funeral vehicle.

Bro-Ham
06-17-10, 04:36 PM
Dull, The four companies were separate back when this 1980 flower car was built. When Accubuilt acquired the brands each had its own unique styling and trim but they were made under the same roof. Accubuilt wisely consolidated to two brands: S&S for formal tastes and Superior for contemporary - as each of the brands had always been.

The-Dullahan
06-17-10, 04:52 PM
Dull, The four companies were separate back when this 1980 flower car was built. When Accubuilt acquired the brands each had its own unique styling and trim but they were made under the same roof. Accubuilt wisely consolidated to two brands: S&S for formal tastes and Superior for contemporary - as each of the brands had always been.

Once again, precisely my point. Simply stating that if it IS in fact one of those four companies (and this is based simply on the appearances of Hearses from that era) the Flower car's rear end LARGELY resembles the rear of an S&S Hearse and also resembles my best recollection the Eureka Flower cars. These two facts alone do not prove it belongs to either, it may be very far off, it is however simple speculation, as speculation is about as far as I can go, since Flower Cars have never been something I have found particular interest in.

Hah. Run-On Sentences. My teacher would be so proud.

brougham_geezer
06-18-10, 10:11 AM
The lack of a "Z" in the vin shows that this was never a commercial chassis car, although the wheelbase is longer than a normal Caddy sedan. There is no hood trim, and the lower rocker & fender trim is not the Fleetwood style, which makes me think this started out as a Sedan deVille that got stretched.

No commercial glass either, which supports my theory.

I would bet this car is made by a lesser coachbuilder like Collins or Demmers or something even more obscure. No Superior or S&S flowercar would've started life as a non-commercial chassis vehicle. They would also be proudly badged somewhere, for instance on the sills and on underhood tags.

Check the door sills for stickers applied over the "Body by Fisher" "Interior by Fleetwood" factory badges. Check under the hood on the inner fenders for tags proclaiming the builder, date etc. Also check stickers inside the drivers door jam. Sometimes there is an emblem on the glovebox door, or there could be some paperwork in there which would also help you out.

My 1980 Superior is a real-deal big block-powered Z-code commercial chassis car, and has a plate rivited to the inner-fender under the hood identifying Superior Coach as a division of the Sheller-Globe Corporation. Accubuilt can trace its beginnings to the next year ('81), when the Superior Coaches company was bought from Sheller-Globe by a group of private investors. That year they also bought Sayers & Scovill, and continued to build the company (S&S/Superior of Ohio), that would buy both Eureka and Miller-Meteor names in 1999, before changing their name to Accubuilt in 2000.


EDIT: Buuuuuuuuuuut... why don't we forget about that flower car for a moment and SHOW US SOME MORE PICTURES OF THAT WHITE IMPERIAL COUPE PARKED BEHIND IT! mmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmm :D

The-Dullahan
06-18-10, 12:58 PM
Buuuuuuuuuuut... why don't we forget about that flower car for a moment and SHOW US SOME MORE PICTURES OF THAT WHITE IMPERIAL COUPE PARKED BEHIND IT! mmmmmmmmmmmmmm mmmmm :D

He can't. He'll be too busy getting photos of that Hearse.

Bro-Ham
06-18-10, 01:24 PM
Many flower cars I've seen were converted sedans with the back doors still present for storage. The stainless steel detailing on this 1980 is very well done which leads me to believe it is not a bargain basement job from a cheapo coachbuilder.

There was another thread within the last few months about a flower car that, if I remember correctly, was a 1980 which was updated with all the 1990 styling added on.

Here is a 2010 Cadillac flower car - by S&S - notice the back doors.

http://www.accubuilt.com/pdf/hearse/SS%20DGB_Florale%20042009.pdf

The-Dullahan
06-19-10, 01:28 AM
Bro-Ham is correct. While I haven't seen the aforementioned thread, a number of Professional Cars were modified when the body styling changed to try to make them appear more contemporary, while still remaining more cost effective than purchasing a new fleet.