: The ultimate intercooler upgrade!



coach123
06-13-10, 11:28 PM
Guys... I am currently talking to a fabricator of a product that chills our intercooler fluid. It is a flat plate heat exchanger that ties into the A/C system and our intercooler system to provide the lowest possible drop in IAT's. This modification would give you much lower temperatures than any upgraded heat exchanger.

If we agree to move forward on this and I can setup a time to travel to his shop we will have a complete plug and play "activechiller". Plug and play = no cutting lines or changing anything. He has installed this on a maggie GTOP with intercooler fluid temps typically at 40-50F during heavy drives with multiple WOT's. I am hoping we can get this thing made specifically for our cars with an instruction guide w/ pics. The goal is to have a simple plug and play so anyone can install.

Let me know if anyone is interested. If we decrease our IAT's enough then the ECM will start adding timing which means additional hp. The cooler we keep the air the more sustained our hp and tq are during heavy driving. I will keep everyone posted on the progress of this mod.

Psycho-albanian
06-14-10, 12:00 AM
Coach you da man! i envy you.:worship::worship::worship:

TimmyC
06-14-10, 12:05 AM
AC systems don't typically have the BTU output to chill the required amount of water on a continuous basis. It might be enough for one or two WOT blasts but that's it. I don't think it would be worth the cost. I will be interested in results if you go ahead with it though.

coach123
06-14-10, 01:23 AM
This system is more designed for the daily driver. I agree with you that if you are doing road courses or constantly WOT then a larger heat exchanger may be a more viable option. I was really thinking about adding Wait4Me upgraded dual pass heat exchanger but living in the city I think the A/C chiller might be a better option as it would provide cooling benefits all the time. This product is setup with a bypass switch built in to bypass the current heat exchanger when the A/C clutch is engaged. It can also have a switch to work when A/C is on or when it is off in the cabin. It has been shown that the stock heat exchanger actually tends to warm the fluid up more when the system is on. Here is a link of another similar product that was designed for the fords:

http://www.modularfords.com/forums/showthread.php/113125-Initial-Killer-Chiller-Review/page11 - very long but informative thread.

FYI the killerchiller is not plug and play requires professional A/C technican to install and requires cutting several A/C hoses. It also does not have the built in switches capable of bypassing heat exchanger and using chiller without A/C on.

Here is youtube video of competitors:

YouTube- Killer Chiller Temp test

If this project goes through we will size the chiller specifically for our car for max intercooler fluid temp reduction.

550HP STSV
06-14-10, 09:05 AM
any idea on price?

coach123
06-14-10, 11:16 AM
No not yet... Still in early stages. The product has been fabricated and used successfully in other supercharged vehicles but it has not been specifically designed for our car. It could be available now but probably would not be a straight plug and play unit at this time. My goal is to have step by step instruction so the average Joe will be able to install. I can't see it costing more than a really a dual pass heat exchanger with fans though.

I am still working with the fabricator to see if we can coordinate a time to have it installed on my vehicle. Keeping my fingers crossed everything goes forward as planned.

PGA2B
06-14-10, 11:29 AM
FYI- For anyone wanting to change out their current IC radiator the Perma Cool 12318 is a direct fit and they go for around $200. Do a Google search and you will find them.

BlownV
06-14-10, 01:15 PM
Maybe something I am just not understanding here but why are we trying to use our engines to cool our engines? This option would run off of the A/C compressor correct? Thereby requiring hp to lower the temps to then generate hp. I do agree a cooler intake charge is needed to get the most out of forced induction and from what everyone has been stating I am guessing that our superchargers are on the edge of their efficiency map...pretty close to the hair dryer effect...but I don't see this as the easy and reliable route.

I am new the SC world here so please teach me if there is something I am missing. I can tell you that on turbo cars methanol is one of the best additions I have ever used. A properly tuned meth kit can yield over 100hp on a 4 cyl. 2.0L engine and even more torque. This comes from the increase in effective octane rating as well as the cooling effect of the methanol.

They are simple to use, easy to install, and cheap to maintain. On top of all that, the methanol cleans your combustion chambers. For $500-800, it really is the cheapest HP you can buy.

coach123
06-14-10, 02:22 PM
The problem with methanol kits is that you really need a tune specific for the added methanol and you have to constantly refill the methanol. I want something that requires no refilling besides my gas tank. The average hp lost when using your A/C is 10-15hp and as soon as you go WOT the ECM shuts off the A/C compressor. You would still have this hp available during WOT and the cooling effect when not in WOT. If you want to turn off the ability of the ECM to shut off the A/C at WOT you can through a tune. Personal preference really. I live in the south so during spring, summer, and fall I cannot live without my A/C on. When it is cool enough for your A/C to be off (winter months) then the chiller gets bypassed and uses your stock heat exchanger for cooling.

It's all personal preference really if you want to make a great drag car and don't mind filling the reservoir then go for the meth. It will gain you the most hp over upgraded heat exchanger or chiller method. I like to keep things simple as I always like my cars as daily drivers. I don't think the few hp I would loose would bother me during regular driving. I think you actually would gain more in the grand scope of things since timing is not pulled as much. We drive a 4300lb sedan so I'm not looking to be a ZO6 anytime soon. Just have fun with what I am driving.

coach123
06-15-10, 12:06 AM
Bump ttt... Come on guys only a few people are interested in this mod.. I guess people want to wait for the results before jumping on the bandwagon.

550HP STSV
06-15-10, 09:43 AM
Im interested if we could get a estimate in price, and what the actual gains would be.

bobs-sts-v
06-15-10, 09:56 AM
Could someone give us non-tech guys an idea of what we are talking about here with a visual? Picture, link to a diagram, drawing, cocktail napkin, etc. with the basics. I am all for getting more boost, but not at the expense of either my warranty or my AC in the summer.

Bob

BlownV
06-15-10, 11:25 AM
Coach-
A specific tune for methanol is preffered but I can tell you that it is not necessary. Yes you will need it to get the most out of your vehicle but you already have to tune for all of your other mods...even just a simple exhaust so I don't see that as a reason to avoid it. The tune is pretty easy anyway as all you have to do is lean out the mix a little to account for the combustible portion of the meth/water mix.

As far as always refilling it...that depends on your driving. As I'm sure you know the meth/water mix is not injected all the time but only at higher boost levels. Since we see 12psi stock I would setup the injection to start at 9-10 psi which I probably only hit a few times on my way into work each day (on-ramps). The amount of mix consumed is directly proportional to hp and on my 950bhp 2.0L (723awhp) running 34 psi I was only refilling my 1 gallon methanol tank every 3-4 gas fill-ups. I was not babying that vehicle around town either. I suspect a 2 gallon tank in the trunk would only need filling every 6-7 or so gas fill-ups. Additionally methanol/water mix is cheap...you can run windshield washer fluid with has meth content in it. HEAT I believe is 35-40% meth which is a common fluid that people in the sport compact circle use.

I can promise that the meth kit would be easier to install than a 'kilerchiller' setup or similar from my research on it thus far. The good systems out there are almost plug and play even for the universal units. Run power to the pump, tap the intake for the nozzle and run an airflow input to the controller...that's it. You can either run a simple boost switch activated setup by t-ing off a vac line or splice into the signal from our factory MAP sensors.

My kit is from LabonteMotorsports and features a touchscreen display to set the parameters of the progressive controller...from there it tunes itself. What I do plan to do (a little more complicated) is have an oversized pully fabricated to run higher boost from the SC (16psi), then T into the bypass valve actuator with the meth kit's optional output signal solenoid. The controller for the kit monitors methanol fluid flow through the nozzle and in the event of decreased flow (running out of fluid) it will trigger the solenoid which in turn will allow the bypass valve to open and lower the intake pressure to the stock 12psi. It is the same as the setup I ran on my dual-stage boost controller on my last vehicle and works like a charm.

coach123
06-15-10, 11:27 AM
Our systems run hot as it is which is why performance is so much better in the winter months. This system would tie into the A/C so that part of the warranty may be voided. Any upgrades to the car besides intake, exhaust, or headers will warrant an upgrade to the intercooler system. Just an upgrade to the intercooler system itself will unlock additional hp on this car during spirited driving conditions.

Does anyone know if an upgraded heat exchanger voids any warranty? Does anyone have first hand experience with dealers on this subject?

I expect that the gentlemen working on this project will sell them for around $500-700. Here is an installation link for the GTO.

http://activeinterchiller.com/

This product may take some time before finishing because he is currently machining all parts for it himself. He has promised several GTO's a kit so I am in line but I have been communicating with him on a daily basis. He is sending me an inline temperature sensor to log what our intercooler fluids are during various driving conditions.

Hope this helps

BlownV
06-15-10, 11:36 AM
Meant to put this link up on the last post:


http://www.labontemotorsports.com/store/ccp0-prodshow/ISG-S3.html

This is the kit I run

STS_Chiller
06-16-10, 09:01 PM
I want to thank Coach for his enthusiasm and offering up his STS V for a test car. Also members that have shown interest in a STS V Super Chiller. We are backed up with GTO orders and still looking to get some parts manufactured. This started out with making a Super Chiller for my car the way I wanted. Then a huge interest from Forum Members to buy one. Our goal is always no cutting of car with the least modification as possible and a quality product. The GTO Super Chiller is a one piece product, stage 2 seen below.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/AJG.jpg

Unfortunately there is not room for that on STS V so There will have to be Freon Lines but we do plan on machining aluminum adapters that will not require any cutting of AC hoses. I do have a local kid with a gen 1 CTS V SC by Magnusson that wants a Super Chiller but Coaches entheasm will likely make STS V next product. Looks like Coach will be getting one even if itís a 1 off product.

The simplest description of a Super Chiller is that it makes cold water. There is no way a water to air heat exchanger is going to make 50 deg water when its 95 deg out. Think about it you are trying to take heat away with a fan blowing 95 deg air across it. With coolant refrigerated to low 50s your intercooler will be as efficient as possible. While we think of the blower making all this heat it is nothing compared to what AC is designed to handle. A supper Chiller is like adding a very small rear AC unit. Same idea as rear AC in a van or SUV. Once installed a Super Chiller would be free performance and efficiency when AC is on.

Now about Meth injection I have it on my GTO also, its disabled for Super Chiller testing but they work hand in hand. Meth will do nothing when your sitting at a traffic light or just cruising along. Super chiller will keep IAT down most of the time. Also by keeping IAT lower it doesnít get out of hand. Example when stopped IAT will climb ski high stock so it takes long time to take that heat away. When you go way into boost there is too much heat and air flow for your intercooler to help much even with a Super Chiller. It does help that IAT is lower to start with but on my GTO the IC WT does not go up much in the ľ mi during 12 seconds with AC off. That means it has not taken much heat away. That is where Meth injection shines it lowers IAT regardless of IC efficiency as well as any other benefits your tuned for, I run 50/50 mix. Super Chiller requires no tune for benefits. I donít recommend upgrading water to air heat exchanger if your considering a Super Chiller, on GTO it is disabled automatically when AC is on and returns to normal operation when AC is off. All it does is add heat to cold water. :thumbsup:

STS_Chiller
06-16-10, 09:10 PM
Coach-
A specific tune for methanol is preffered but I can tell you that it is not necessary.
I can promise that the meth kit would be easier to install. The good systems out there are almost plug and play even for the universal units. run an airflow input to the controller...that's it.

What is that about? Air flow from what? :D

coach123
06-16-10, 10:08 PM
BlownV - my apologizes I completely missed your post describing your methanol setup posted earlier. After reading STS_chiller's post I went back and read through everything.

How would you tap into the boost control solenoid to call it to open the bypass:hmm:? Do you utilize your factory windshield washer reservoir since it has a low limit alarm?

vince87t
06-17-10, 01:33 AM
I would be interested in one of these for my 2007 STS-V and my 2006 GTO. The GTO has a Harrop hh112. Would the differences between the Harrop and the Maggie cause any issues?

LITTLEELVISDAN
06-17-10, 02:04 AM
Im in Atlanta as well Chiller. With the stock air box removed for an intake there might be room.

STS_Chiller
06-17-10, 02:10 AM
I would be interested in one of these for my 2007 STS-V and my 2006 GTO. The GTO has a Harrop hh112. Would the differences between the Harrop and the Maggie cause any issues?

Seriously? Now thatís the way to travel! :cloud9:

Should only be a little water hose routing difference, SNL is installing one on a Harrop 2200 GTO as soon as I get one to them. They are next on list, we have talked but I have not seen one in person. The RR corner behind strut has to be clear near expansion block, every one likes to use that space for fuel regulator. The assembly gets sandwiched between evaporator and the AC hoses.

BlownV
06-17-10, 11:42 AM
STS-Chiller: You will need a signal to enable/disable the injection. Depending on the kit this can either be a simple boost activated mechanical switch using a line T-ed off from the supercharger solenoid or similar pressure source, or a progressive flow controller using a 0-5V input from the MAF sensor or a 0-5V input from the MAP sensor. Some of the controllers just have internal MAP sensors that require a vac/boost line too. All depends on what you buy but for our cars I would suggest a progressive flow style controller and tapping into our MAP sensors or running a parallel sensor.

Coach: You could use the factory windshield washer fluid reservoir if you wanted to. Personally I would mount the second tank in the trunk (our spare tire well would be perfect for this) with the pump back there as well. Just makes for a cleaner install IMO. The tanks either come with low fluid indicators or add-ons for them. The kits are very complete now-a-days.

As far as the boost control solenoid this was my interpretation:

The factory MAP sensor reads the boost level in the intake manifold. If it goes above 12 psi it triggers the solenoid which opens and allows the pressure from the intake to flow through the solenoid and open the bypass valve. (This is my understanding of our system thus far. I admit I have not sat down and layed out all the components in our system yet so please correct me if I am wrong) This is why disconnecting the 'X' line from the solenoid as Jesse did allowed you to run higher boost. There was no pressure being applied to the bypass valve to open it once the solenoid clicked open.

Thus, you could run a smaller pulley and make lets say 16psi without knock while running the methanol injection at WOT. Instead of completely blocking off/disconnecting the 'X' line from the solenoid you would place another solenoid in-line. This solenoid would be connected to the 6V output signal from the meth injection controller and configured to only open when the injection flow dropped below nominal. Hence, the solenoid would be closed when at WOT, making 16psi and flowing adequate methanol/water mix. With this solenoid closed the opening/closing of the stock boost control solenoid would have no impact on the bypass valve. However, if flow of meth/water dropped the secondary solenoid could be activated allowing pressure to now reach the bypass valve and drop boost down to 12 psi. Make some sense? It is basically the operation of an electronic dual stage boost controller utilizing 2 solenoids.

550HP STSV
06-17-10, 01:03 PM
i'd also be interested!

coach123
06-17-10, 04:31 PM
Thanks for the explanation on the meth injection. If I get an okay from Stiegemeier that using meth on these blowers will not do damage them I would be all for it. I think a superchiller and meth kit might be the best possible combination you could have for cooling purposes.

BlownV
06-17-10, 04:49 PM
Coach - I would agree. I do not know the exact aluminum alloy that is used for our blowers (at least the lids anyway) or what metals are used on the internal components. Methanol will corrode (pit) aluminum over long periods of time...another reason we dillute with water. This is also where good atomization is important and why if you get a methanol kit you should get a good high pressure system (sureflo pump with viton seals). You want to avoid puddling that will cause damage to your intake. I have worked on cars that run methanol for long periods of time and have never seen any pitting or damage except where people have used crappy pumps and injected fluid at locations with inadequate airflow to carry the 'mist' thus resulting in the pipes being constantly soaked...kinda like a drain trap.

coach123
06-17-10, 05:03 PM
I assume the ideal location to install the nozzle on our systems would be as the CAI enters the throttle body.

BlownV
06-17-10, 07:53 PM
I prefer in our case to run two small nozzles in the intake, one on each side of the SC before the 'y' into the throttle body. This decreases the amount going through one nozzle to get better atomization and also give the mix some time to cool the intake charge. A lot of us turbo guys like to run two nozzles as well, one at the outlet of the intercooler and one just before the throttle body.

coach123
06-22-10, 02:33 PM
Bump...Progress is underway with the A/C chiller. I spoke with STSV-chiller today. Anyone located around the Tampa FL area that would like to let him take a look at their car for fitment purposes?

cadillac94pimpin
06-23-10, 03:34 PM
Im in delray beach FL about 3 hrs south east of Tampa. I think there are some people closer then me though.

Redxped1
06-23-10, 06:11 PM
wish i saw this my car was in orlando till last week

deedubb
06-24-10, 03:02 AM
Interesting. I had tried to pursue this with my blown CTS-V 1st Gen but never got any response back from killer chiller after a few emails. I also talked to Thomas at Hendrix a few times about this as he was working on getting these into some GTO's. I'm still interested in how this turns out and I'd like to utilize this to drop my bloody high IAT's.

DraganHawk
06-25-10, 09:20 PM
Meant to put this link up on the last post:


http://www.labontemotorsports.com/store/ccp0-prodshow/ISG-S3.html

This is the kit I run

This is what you run on your V? If so, email me or write here, what are your gains? How do you like it? Pros? Cons? :thumbsup:

STS_Chiller
06-30-10, 08:15 PM
I did look at a 09 STS V8 NA (nice car) looks like the STS-V will be getting a small custom aluminum Accumulator on the suction line from Super Chiller direct into the Compressor. Thatís because the lines at fire wall are spring lock. Iím waiting to hear from Coach if the outlet fitting at Condenser is Tube O-Ring or not. I suspect it is. I could not get a good look at it at dealer. If thatís the case then all the Freon side of Super Chiller would be contained in small area and out of sight. Actually everything should be out of sight looking under hood. Accumulator will keep liquid from returning to Compressor and enhance basic AC performance. :)

STS_Chiller
06-30-10, 09:57 PM
Im in delray beach FL about 3 hrs south east of Tampa. I think there are some people closer then me though.

Yes Google says 225 Mi, let me know if your interested. Or ask around if you know anyone closer that might be interested. I cant make aluminum adapters without a car here. I could buy the 2 lines new that I need for dimensions and make a tuner kit that would need AC hoses cut and crimped and water hoses finished but I would rather make a turn key kit. :thumbsup:

coach123
06-30-10, 09:57 PM
I did look at a 09 STS V8 NA (nice car) looks like the STS-V will be getting a small custom aluminum Accumulator on the suction line from Super Chiller direct into the Compressor. Thatís because the lines at fire wall are spring lock. Iím waiting to hear from Coach if the outlet fitting at Condenser is Tube O-Ring or not. I suspect it is. I could not get a good look at it at dealer. If thatís the case then all the Freon side of Super Chiller would be contained in small area and out of sight. Actually everything should be out of sight looking under hood. Accumulator will keep liquid from returning to Compressor and enhance basic AC performance. :)

Is anyone able to answer his question? I looked under my car but was unable to determine what type of connection is on the compressor

PGA2B
07-01-10, 01:11 PM
Maybe Luke at Lindsay or PSR Mark can answer this?

cadillac94pimpin
07-02-10, 12:35 PM
Yes Google says 225 Mi, let me know if your interested. Or ask around if you know anyone closer that might be interested. I cant make aluminum adapters without a car here. I could buy the 2 lines new that I need for dimensions and make a tuner kit that would need AC hoses cut and crimped and water hoses finished but I would rather make a turn key kit. :thumbsup:

So what would this entail? Say I drove over there how long would you need my car for? Would there be anything in it for me :highfive:
Would the service dept notice or not be happy if they saw it?

STS_Chiller
07-02-10, 01:48 PM
So what would this entail? Say I drove over there how long would you need my car for? Would there be anything in it for me :highfive:
Would the service dept notice or not be happy if they saw it?

Well Coach has first chance on a Super Chiller at half price but he has to fly in and out to leave car. I think he just wants some one to get it made. If Coach declines then I would offer to you at half price. For you that would probably mean one weekend day then return for one more weekend day to finish install. As far as waranty I think dealer could claim anything they want.

coach123
07-06-10, 01:18 AM
STS_Chiller... sent you an email. I have had some questions via PM about the chiller's installation requirements. I know you have not finalized the design but individuals are curious whether everything will be a straight fit and not need any lines cut to install. I figure it might be better if you explain the typical installation procedure you have done in the past and envision for our cars. I know the kit will require evacuation and recharge of freon but does it require anything else?

STS_Chiller
07-06-10, 09:31 PM
STS_Chiller... sent you an email. I have had some questions via PM about the chiller's installation requirements. I know you have not finalized the design but individuals are curious whether everything will be a straight fit and not need any lines cut to install. I figure it might be better if you explain the typical installation procedure you have done in the past and envision for our cars. I know the kit will require evacuation and recharge of freon but does it require anything else?

Our goal is not to cut anything and make it completely reversible. Probably have to drill some mounting holes but thatís about it. Anyone that can do AC service could install or have Freon drained install parts yourself and have a tech evacuate and charge Freon. The water side is just running some heater hose. I will know more in a couple weeks after Coaches Car is finished. :thumbsup:

BlownV
07-08-10, 12:03 PM
DraganHawk- Sorry for the late response. Spent about 2 weeks over the pond dealing with some customer issues and haven't been on the forums since I left.

I have not installed the labonte kit on my STS-V yet. I ran it on my old car for a couple years but I plan to order another one as soon as I get the new intake on (being fabbed now). I absolutely LOVED that kit...I have installed about a half dozen of the meth injection kits out there including snow performance, aquamist, devils own, DIY, AEM, and this was my favorite. For the price it is amazingly complete, simple and clean. No cons IMO.

I gained ~80awhp on 91 octane from adding this kit because of being able to run higher boost. Never had any clogs or issues and my cylinder walls were still sparkling when I sold the car after putting 40k miles on the race built motor that made 723awhp on race gas and nitrous.

I know people that have gained over 150whp from adding methanol injection to their cars (I only gained what I did because the GT3586R turbocharger on my vehicle was relatively efficient in the pressure ratio that I was operating). I'll find some of the dyno sheets that are floating out there of before and afters.

coach123
07-08-10, 12:48 PM
BlownV - Are going to be having your fabricator make additional cold air intakes for forum members or will the drawings me available?

BlownV
07-08-10, 01:12 PM
I will make the drawings available...either free or for a small fee. My fabricator is charging me $280 for the intake.

coach123
07-08-10, 01:55 PM
Take some pics when finished and see if your fabricator will make a few more sets for the forum members. Set the price and let us know. When do you expect to have your intake completed. What sizes did you end up going with? I was thinking 4" from filter to split before intercooler lid and then split to either 3.5" or 3" back to the Y going to the throttle body.

BlownV
07-08-10, 07:26 PM
I will post up pics as soon as I get it. I told him not to rush since I will be out of town all next week. It is 4" at the filter, split before the blower lid into 3" sections. 3" is the size of the stock hoses and clamps coming off of the throttle body 'Y' so I stayed with that. This does not include a replacement for the throttle body 'Y' which is slightly under 3". My guess is that that will be next. My price also included the bungs for the methanol/water injection.

coach123
07-09-10, 12:28 AM
Nice... I can't wait to see it. As long as the fitment is right add me to the list and I can paypal you the cash.

Gary Wells
07-10-10, 08:55 PM
Not to change the subject of this thread, but for those of you interested in alcohol and / or methanol injection the biggest name in *turbo* Buick alcohol -methanol injection kits just designed a kit for the '09 & up CTS-V a while back. Mine is sitting in my bedroom closet still boxed, and will not get installed until I have the 1st round of mods done on my '09 CTS-V, which is down the road a ways. I did post a link to a popular *turbo* Buick site a while back to the thread regarding the kit. I also posted on the '09 CTS-V section on this forum. My apologies for disrupting this thread.

BlownV
07-10-10, 09:00 PM
You talking about alkycontrol or alcohol-injection.com? I have used both of those kits in the past.

Gary Wells
07-10-10, 10:54 PM
You talking about alkycontrol or alcohol-injection.com? I have used both of those kits in the past.

Alkycontrol, as in Julio Don, as in Razor on TB.COM. There's a thread on it over there in the alky section. I run it on my turbo *Buick* and swear by it. I liked 100 octane unleaded VP out of the pump out here but it is about $8.00 a gal now, way out of my league.

STS_Chiller
07-11-10, 02:14 PM
+1 for Alkycontrol, as in Julio Don on GTO

BlownV
07-11-10, 07:28 PM
Like I said I have used that kit before. It is a nice complete setup, very similar to Devil's Own. I still prefer labonte motorsports...they previously made Snow performances kits but now do their own and they are far superior.

Glad to hear someone else backing me up in the benefits of meth/water injection though.

STS_Chiller
07-11-10, 08:36 PM
Like I said I have used that kit before. It is a nice complete setup, very similar to Devil's Own. I still prefer labonte motorsports...they previously made Snow performances kits but now do their own and they are far superior.

Glad to hear someone else backing me up in the benefits of meth/water injection though.

Julio was local to me and gave me considerable explanation of his simple kit. Also tuning help and benefit of his experience. :D

Gary Wells
07-11-10, 09:19 PM
Julio's kit for the turbo Buicks was designed with stealth being one of the top priorities. It appears that he designed the '09 & up CTS-V kit with the same priorities in mind. I do not know if he has that kit on his website yet. I would think that it could be adapted to the STS pretty easily.

STS_Chiller
07-12-10, 08:24 AM
Julio's kit for the turbo Buicks was designed with stealth being one of the top priorities. It appears that he designed the '09 & up CTS-V kit with the same priorities in mind. I do not know if he has that kit on his website yet. I would think that it could be adapted to the STS pretty easily.

He had a kit for 04-06 GTO but I used the coolant overflow for Meth and hid an overflow behind bumper. 05-06 GTO has a radiator cap. Since they make everything in house I was able to speck length of all wiring and lines locating everything exactly how I wanted. As far as I know he will still modify a kit to customers specs. At that time he did not have advanced controls I see from others now. But the kit I have does exactly what I want and the red to green light system check suits me. I would not boost without meth. Just like the Super Chiller for water to air intercooler once you have it you never go back.

STS_Chiller
07-14-10, 01:45 PM
I donít know if this STS V Super Chiller is going to happen. Coach is not able to make the Trek to Fl now so unless another STS V comes forward I cant continue. This is a great value for anyone that can make it to Tampa Bay Area. I have the parts and tools already for STS V so this is big disappointment for me. I was also looking forward to meeting Mike and working on his beast. Get the word out and find a volunteer, I have some clean ideas for this setup. :thumbsup:

STS_Chiller
07-15-10, 09:26 PM
Coach you havenít been able to answer any questions about your car:thepan:
If you could get me detailed pictures I could cut down your install time. I need pictures of entire system that means taking plastic covers off and putting car on lift or jack stands probably. I could probably cut build/install time enough that you would only need to stay over 1 or 2 nights. I do need system working before I can release so I can verify AC and Super Chiller performance as well as take pictures. You could probably help also if you donít mind. :highfive:

coach123
07-16-10, 12:13 AM
Email sent

550HP STSV
07-16-10, 02:49 PM
You give me the kit, ill drive from Ohio to florida and stay a week for you to finish.

STS_Chiller
07-16-10, 07:09 PM
You give me the kit, ill drive from Ohio to florida and stay a week for you to finish.

See what Coach decides. You could make a vacation out of it there is no Oil On The Beach here yet. :ack:
It concerns me that I have only seen a V8 NA STS and it may or may not take a lot of time to get to fittings and such. I donít want to cut and splice AC hoses. I want to machine bolt on adapters that can be removed if you want.

550HP STSV
07-17-10, 11:25 PM
Alright, let me know. I'd make a week vacation out of it.

STS_Chiller
08-03-10, 07:42 PM
Alright, let me know. I'd make a week vacation out of it.

Do you do your own work on car? I’m looking at the black plastic covers on the spring lock connections on AC lines at fire wall drivers side. I cant tell if they are just security covers or if they actually hold the conectin together. Do they just hinge and slide off? I’m trying to determine if they are standard tube O Ring spring lock and what diameter the tubing is? Just slide a caliper over tubing and give me the OD.

When are you thinking of coming to FL?

550HP STSV
08-03-10, 10:13 PM
No, i hardly touch my own car. I work a service shop, so i let them do it all.

I am scheduling a vacation within the next month. I may end up renting a car and going to miami, unless you want to trade cars for the week.

STS_Chiller
08-04-10, 01:47 AM
No, i hardly touch my own car. I work a service shop, so i let them do it all.

I am scheduling a vacation within the next month. I may end up renting a car and going to miami, unless you want to trade cars for the week.

See if your tec can look at the AC couplings on your car and determine if they are typical Spring Lock quick couplers and what size they are. All I can see is black plastic that may just be a cover. They are near where the expansion block would be if it weren’t hidden inside car LOL. That is near windshield on drivers side. I have only seen pictures and it would be big help as far as having parts here for whatever I decide to do. Thanks

The Schedule sounds good. I only have one working car, If my TDI were running you could use it but some how I cant picture that. Going from STS to beater VW. GTO is down untill I do sevral big projects. Everything is on hold for Super Chillers now.

550HP STSV
08-04-10, 11:31 AM
I see. Ill have them check and see if they can. Ill see if I can get a weekly rental in your area.

STS_Chiller
08-05-10, 01:52 PM
What series SC is used on the STS V? like is it a 112, 122, tvs1500 just wanted idea what compare to.
Do I understand this? A XLR V has same engine as STS V for a mere 105K?

PGA2B
08-05-10, 02:23 PM
That would be correct sir. The air intake is different, but other than that same engine.

vince87t
08-10-10, 10:39 AM
Any word on this project? I would be interested at a reasonable cost.

550HP STSV
08-10-10, 11:46 AM
I've been talking with STS_Chiller, he now has the ability to do all the parts at his own shop. I am scheudling to make the trip from ohio to St. Petersburg shortly here! Just need to find out if I drop the car off to him for a full week if that would be enough time to get it finished.

vince87t
08-10-10, 12:43 PM
Thanks to you both for putting the time/work in to make this happen!

Dr. Design
08-14-10, 07:38 PM
The SC that the STSV & XLRV uses is the M122 Eaton Blower. The 1900TVS blower was not available at the time production started on the STS & XLR V's.

The XLRV does share the same engine, but there are a few small differences. Internally they are the same...

Thanks,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac


What series SC is used on the STS V? like is it a 112, 122, tvs1500 just wanted idea what compare to.
Do I understand this? A XLR V has same engine as STS V for a mere 105K?

STS_Chiller
08-14-10, 08:37 PM
Thank You M122 was what we were hoping. I’m at the shop working on Camaro SS Super Chiller tonight, it should be very similar to the STS V. 550 HP has confirmed he is coming from Ohio but hasn’t given us a date yet. But he is next! The Camaro has enough room up front to move in, I expect the STS V to be more complicated because of less room.
We bought a complete STS V Blower / Intercooler be here Tuesday. We want to see what a intercooler upgrade would cost. Its my understanding the 4 tubes are less than efficient. Also try and mount it to something else for a shop Beater. I’m thinking a 4.6 Interceptor and use it to test products on.

cad08stsv
08-24-10, 04:13 AM
If you should develop a kit that can be done at home or a shop then I would be interested. I know D3 has a set up on there web site looks good. I don't know if it is in production as yet.
Thanks 550 for giving of your car so that other may share in the fun. Lets talk cad03sts@mac.com when you get a chance,
Russell

550HP STSV
08-25-10, 10:56 AM
Just getting off vacation - going to try to set something up this week.

silverws6ta
08-25-10, 09:07 PM
Thank You M122 was what we were hoping.

Sadly, A blower that is only about 60% efficient -- no matter how you pan it out.. If there was a way to 'graft' the TVS1900 or 2300 series blower to this car .. we wold no longer be cooking with pine needles.. but LP gas..

... All the more reason I keep penny pinching for a ZR1 soon :)

Dr. Design
08-25-10, 10:28 PM
Sadly, A blower that is only about 60% efficient -- no matter how you pan it out.. If there was a way to 'graft' the TVS1900 or 2300 series blower to this car .. we wold no longer be cooking with pine needles.. but LP gas.. :thumbsup:

jedhead
08-27-10, 11:21 PM
You can graft TVS 2300 to this engine. You need to cast a new manifold for the blower to attach too. Enough money and time can get you what you want.

Bob

STS_Chiller
08-28-10, 11:59 PM
This Week?

STS_Chiller
09-06-10, 08:24 AM
We are doing pretty good now, have everything setup to produce Super Chillers. Not one car or truck has come through for prototype. The Camaro SS has canceled 3 weeks in a row and don’t know if 550 HP is going to come through or not. Sadly we cant make any kits without a car. I spent last 2 days getting shop in shape. We share shop with 2 Dragsters, they aren’t there much but when they are they come first. Just put a new 45K motor in one along with 2speed, FTI and all the trimmings. We have the adapters for SS and GTO at CNC shop now with order for 20 each. A local shop is doing wiring kits, we can handle the rest in house. I’m taking today to work on my GTO, I haven’t touched it since we started on this first of the year. We need a STS V and CTS V to install prototype on. A person could drive here leave car and fly home and still be ahead depending on where you live.

550HP STSV
09-06-10, 10:08 PM
Sorry. I will be coming through for sure. I just lost my assistant and shipping manager at my work. As soon as I get replacements, I have plans to come out your way STS_CHILLER. How does the sept 24th weekend sound? Thats my birthday weekend as well.

STS_Chiller
09-07-10, 08:40 AM
Sorry. I will be coming through for sure. I just lost my assistant and shipping manager at my work. As soon as I get replacements, I have plans to come out your way STS_CHILLER. How does the sept 24th weekend sound? Thats my birthday weekend as well.

That would be great! Wow my birthday is this Saturday 9/11. You wont be disappointed the shop is really shaping up. We just got a second lift, still have to move it. One thing I cant believe we still don’t have a proper air compressor. Just missed a pair of nice ones, but we have a lot of rechargeable tools to get by. We also just came into a RevXtreme C5 race car / trailer the works turn key! Its called Bat Out Of Hell.

STS_Chiller
10-18-10, 08:29 PM
Someone commit and make the drive. Just to see what we create here is worth a drive and with winter coming, FL beaches, bikinis, palm trees, bikinis, year round road race & dragstrips near by, and did I mention bikinis???? We also have a gulf front high rise ( on a HUGE beach) we would put you in for less than a hotel while your here:

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/Good%20times/7463549_9.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/Good%20times/7463549_5.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/Good%20times/DSC00274.jpg
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/Good%20times/DSC00306.jpg

With all the no shows Iím thinking a non refundable deposit is in order to secure the install and Condo. This is not to purchase the Super Chiller and would be returned upon completion. :D

550HP STSV
10-18-10, 11:51 PM
Im still interested! What dates is it available?

rubber2burn
10-19-10, 01:36 AM
This is off topic, but could someone start a new thread regarding our blowers and why they are only 60% efficent as silverws6ta posted in a earlier post?? I am generly against modifications and the modest gains to dollars spent to achieve them. However, I might be able to justify spending my hard earned dollar and time, custom building a ultimate top end for this motor in the lines of "grafting" a more efficent blower to this engine. I Just need someone with some more knowledge than I have in modern supercharged engines to bounce ideas off from as the only thing I have ever built were early small block chevys 20 years ago.
J

STS_Chiller
10-19-10, 08:03 AM
Im still interested! What dates is it available?

Since posting the Condo on forums interest has peaked but no appointments yet Tracy is out sick so I would say anything after this wk. Make an appointment before the C6, TB SS Camaro5 etc guys. Our plan is 2 wks apart for appointments. We have to clear any reservation for condo.

cadillac94pimpin
10-19-10, 02:28 PM
So wait... You will put us up in the condo also?

Remeber I told you im in Palm Beach 3hrs max from you. It would have to be done in a weekend and not noticable to the dealer. Im pretty much out of vacation days other wise I wouldnt mine.

STS_Chiller
10-19-10, 06:48 PM
Like it says a small fee, Tracy is sick this wk so I don’t know but he said for less than a motel. I don’t want to say a $$ until its nailed down. We need to get into production, you have no idea how many orders we have. We are going to take appointments for Volunteer test cars and secure them with a non refundable deposit. Keep your appointment finish install and get full deposit back. I think we should get $500 security deposit when Condo is reserved and half that $250 when no Condo is needed. Its not just here we have volunteers on nearly 10 different model cars/trucks and not one has shown. We just cant survive like this. We have a lot of $$$ tied up in inventory, tools and machines as well as Engineer and CNC shop we keep putting off.
We cant do the STS-V in 2 days. Your best bet would be 2 weekends.

Update : The Condo is $100 per night.

CMNTMXR57
10-20-10, 12:15 PM
Man, wish I were able to help. I could use one for BOTH the Caddy and the GTO.

550HP STSV
01-19-12, 01:53 PM
Bump?

STS_Chiller
01-19-12, 09:09 PM
Bump?

Bump indeed! I still need a CTSV and STSV to work this out on. I’m no longer strapped down with a partner and the Condo is no longer available but I have this worked out for several cars and trucks now with around 12 on the road. Any one interested and can make it to St Pete Fl post up.

550HP STSV
01-19-12, 09:52 PM
Im still in. I now have 2 full weeks of vacation from work. how long do you think you would need the car?

STS_Chiller
01-24-12, 03:13 AM
Im still in. I now have 2 full weeks of vacation from work. how long do you think you would need the car?

First STS could take as little as 2 days. I need to know about the low side connection near fire wall. If I already have CNC adapter that would be great. If not welding would need to be sent out so that could take another day. I will post a picture tomorrow showing measurement I need. Other Cadillac’s are asking as well so I need to get this info resolved. Are you looking for competition or street version?

GizmoQ
01-24-12, 04:58 AM
Are you looking for competition or street version?

Gotta be Competition Version for me! :stirpot:

550HP STSV
01-24-12, 02:07 PM
I would be looking for street.

I can either ship the car to you, Take your time, get everything done, and then I can fly down to pick it up and drive it back.

Or I could drive it down, take a vacation leave it with you for a few days, and then drive it back up.

STS_Chiller
01-26-12, 01:09 AM
I would be looking for street.

I can either ship the car to you, Take your time, get everything done, and then I can fly down to pick it up and drive it back.

Or I could drive it down, take a vacation leave it with you for a few days, and then drive it back up.

Either one works for me, my TDI is broke but once it’s fixed its available for loaner locally.
I just booked a new model car 2/10 – 2/24 not an STS but I will say it does have a –V so yet another model covered I’m looking forward to this build that came out of the blue.

1madstsv
01-26-12, 05:18 AM
550 I can ship your car if you go that route it's what I do now.

550HP STSV
01-26-12, 09:36 AM
Got any transports going from ohio to florida in about a month ryan?

1madstsv
01-26-12, 12:32 PM
I can I'm in Ohio every week just let me know 2weeks out when and I will make it happen.

550HP STSV
01-26-12, 01:39 PM
You kickin this in for the good of superchillers on our V's or how much ya gonna charge me?

STS_Chiller
01-28-12, 02:43 PM
Taking a quick break from moving Lift, I donít see the STS V liquid line available on line from GM. Actually a lot of AC parts arenít listed. On several model cars I buy the part that gets moded so I can use it on an exchange basis. That saves a lot of install/shipping time. The liquid line gets a standard AC fitting welded out of sight for T then for Competition Version I cut a section out and form tube o-ring fittings for the solenoid. This is working well since it would take to many versions of a CNC parts. The Camaro sells enough to make both connections CNC. The Corvette and XLR is to cramp for CNC high side fitting. I did the first C6 with a hand made HS fitting turned into a nightmare of tubing, so the moded Liquid line is best solution!

Here is the CNC low side adapter I have made. I drill a hole in center then weld standard AC fitting for the low side tap.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/IMAG0694.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/IMAG0693.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/IMAG0695.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/IMAG0696.jpg
Measurement is .62-.63" just outside clamshell. Look near firewall on STS driver side large line.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/IMAG0697.jpg
Clamshell

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/GMC2.jpg
Here is example of welded Line on Chevy Truck

STS_Chiller
02-26-12, 03:24 AM
You kickin this in for the good of superchillers on our V's or how much ya gonna charge me?
Can you get the info we need shown above?

----------

Any one recognize the next car to get SUPER CHILLED!

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/IMAG0766.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/IMAG0758.jpg

1madstsv
02-26-12, 07:11 AM
GiszmoQ car.

STS_Chiller
02-26-12, 09:16 AM
GiszmoQ car.

That was 2 EZ

PGA2B
02-26-12, 10:53 AM
PM me with exactally what measurement you need. Jay emailed me and I was going to measure but was confused as to what you wanted. I will measure it and email or PM you with it today.

550HP STSV
02-26-12, 11:50 AM
PM me with exactally what measurement you need. Jay emailed me and I was going to measure but was confused as to what you wanted. I will measure it and email or PM you with it today.

:thumbsup:

PGA2B
02-26-12, 12:31 PM
PM Replied Dave.

P.S. It sits right under the wiper motor and assembly and I could not get a picture of the caliper on the fitting.

GizmoQ
02-26-12, 03:35 PM
GiszmoQ car.

Yeah, Elwood needs more timing and I like this way to get there.

1madstsv
02-26-12, 04:53 PM
I'm waiting to see how you like it. I might need to be next. Can't let you have all the hp to your self.

STS_Chiller
02-29-12, 10:45 PM
Ok the local Speed Shop hooked me up with a local CTS V that’s interested in getting Chilled. Are you STS V guys going to let the CTS beat you to the ultimate intercooler upgrade?

550HP STSV
03-01-12, 09:15 AM
Nope, I'm still in.

PGA2B
03-01-12, 10:42 AM
Dave- Did the measurements and pics help you at all?

STS_Chiller
03-01-12, 11:49 PM
Nope, I'm still in.

When are you in?


Dave- Did the measurements and pics help you at all?

Well measurements looked same as C6 which is what I expected and hoped for. So CNC work is done for all V series cars! I don’t know if you take really bad pics or what, looked way more cramped than the NA STS I looked at LOL. Thanks!

Seriously I should be able to run my aluminum return line from chiller to near fire wall so it will look factory or not even get noticed. Like the Camaro5

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/return.jpg

PGA2B
03-02-12, 12:11 AM
It is pretty cramped but the pics did not come out as good as they could have. It was hard to get a good shot. Sorry bout that!

Question I have is do you need to run the A/C all the time inside the car?

STS_Chiller
03-02-12, 12:55 AM
Competition version allows you to run AC and Chiller then flip hidden micro switch to turn off Freon to cabin. A led comes on to designate cabin off and air out vent is ambient. This is so water won’t drip on track. Other than that if you don’t turn on AC chiller is not on and you default to front heat exchanger. Anytime AC compressor is on diverter valve bypasses front heat exchanger.

parkeraire
03-02-12, 07:48 AM
does this mod make enough power to offset the losses of having to run the a/c compressor?

STS_Chiller
03-02-12, 08:26 AM
does this mod make enough power to offset the losses of having to run the a/c compressor?

Who does not use AC now days? My GTO made almost 30HP on Dyno with AC and Chiller on vs. off, in a very hot shop last summer. Almost 500 Hp and over 500 Tq. This is not a mod for someone that does not use AC. Anyway computer turns off AC at WOT and XXXX RPM.

550HP STSV
03-02-12, 10:42 AM
When are you in?

Still down to take a trip to FL once my blower gets back!

PGA2B
03-02-12, 12:35 PM
Anyway computer turns off AC at WOT and XXXX RPM.

Actually that is not true. The ECM has the disable and re-enable rpm maxed out to 8192 rpm so it does not shut off at WOT. It also has the TPS% disable set to 200% and re-enable at 197%. So our A/C should never shut off. That is the case for the 06 and 07. I have not seen a Calibration on an 08 or 09 so I don't know they are the same but I can't imagine it would be different.

http://carphotos2.cardomain.com/images/0015/88/76/15628867_large.jpg

Because of the aggressive timing reduction in our IAT vs Timing table at higher IAT and IAT2 temps it should give more power to leave the A/C on and keep the IAT's lower with the Chiller to keep from reducing the timing. With the Chiller the Intercooler water temps should be so low the timing can be advanced to take advantage of it thus outweighing the power loss of the compressor running.

To get the A/C to shut off at WOT you would have to reprogram the ECM and lower the values.

STS_Chiller
03-03-12, 08:02 AM
Actually that is not true. The ECM has the disable and re-enable rpm maxed out to 8192 rpm so it does not shut off at WOT. It also has the TPS% disable set to 200% and re-enable at 197%. So our A/C should never shut off.

That’s not good in my opinion on any car. I have seen where somewhere in the translation of HPT these values are not literal. Chiller or not I would want WOT AC off enabled.

The ideal situation with a chiller the AC shuts off near WOT and/or say 5K. The water is at 30—50 deg, even with AC off it takes some time for ICWT to even get back to ambient. Whether street use or say 1/4mi AC is on while your in line, then you stage AC still on either tap the off button or let computer turn AC off when you go WOT. Now 12 seconds later you lift AC comes back on you drive around get back in line the chiller is lowering water temp and cycle repeats.

I don’t know if there is a reason GM does not want these compressors to cycle but they are variable output. That means they only pump enough to maintain desired output. There for they only use enough HP to maintain desired output. It is possible there is a no over RPM built rite into the compressor. That would be awesome. Manufactures are switching to compressors that don’t even have a clutch they spin even when AC is off. The computer controls output internally from 0 to 100%. There were roomers GTO AC never shut off and adjustments in HPT did not work. That was not the case I verified AC auto off during Dyno pulls. I set extreme values in HPT and thy did work on Dyno. I also step up AC on Fan values in HPT.

My tuner sat in car with AC on during entire session but when he went WOT compressor shut off, He loved it! So reality is for my car even thou AC was on it did not reduce HP during pull. He made detailed files that shoed the insane IAT with AC off in his very hot shop with no fan blowing on car and air intake was from under hood. Then with AC and Chiller on. We were all very impressed. My former associate said that rite there is your retirement. Unfortunately my associate never shared files with me and I probably will never see them or anything else he owes me.

My GTO is stock LS2 with bolt ons and M112 with rear pulleys flipped for over drive and makes 10lb very quick so it makes heat very quick. The chiller maintains ICWT of 30—50 deg with IAT around 30deg above ICWT. There are testimonials from new Camaro’s that heat soak is not an issue now even with hot lapping. The first new Camaro did extensive Dyno tests as well as street tests. He has an IAT display and ICWT digital display I provide. With his testimonials they should fly off shelves. Unfortunately that’s not the case yet.

I know none of this relates in per portion to the North Star insane IAT. GizmoQ car is getting a larger chiller so I hope to see good results.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/40.jpg

My other idea is to lower IAT 1. With chiller installed it would be simple mater to add a small water to air intercooler to cold air intake also a very small core to cool fuel. These are ideas it will take some one willing to test. GizmoQ was not up for replacing his chrome plated air intake so it’s up to some one else.

2 important questions!

1. Does HPT display IAT 1 and IAT 2? If some one could forward me the PID I need for HPT that would save
some time. I hope GizmoQ schedule allows for some Dyno time.

And B. What ATF is recommended for 6L80E and what do people use. My former associate used DEX III.

Also a new associate promised to make an ICWT setup and HPT pid that will log ICWT along side IAT. When he tests ZR1 he is building now that gets chilled! The advanced engine control system he uses already allows for this so he understands the value. I’m excited about this new association and the Chiller project we are involved with his shop is in TX. He wishes this new chiller project to be hush hush until well into it so all I can say so far he is a great asset to me and in turn all of us unlike my former associations that never paned out.

Well off to work I hope to make great strides today on Qs car, he added a grocery list of work he wants done DOH! Another thing These Cars Need an IC water tank with fill cap IMHO. So far I have not found a solution and doubt if I will have time to make one. I’m moving Qs pump out of sight so there is plenty room for one. More water will help performance and a cap just makes sense. The ZR1 has a tank under car this would help but personally I would want a fill cap.

Thanks PGA2B also There is great news out there on GTO Chiller I hope every one interested in GTO finds!

PGA2B
03-03-12, 11:53 AM
1. YES you can Dave. The PID's you need are Under Engine> General> Intake Air Temp (SAE) (F) PID.15 and also Intake Air Temp 2 (F) PID.2128. I emailed you my HPT Config to make it easier. You can thank the STS-V crowd for that (BMBSALES and BLADES). Before us they use to have to use Manifold Air Temp which is not a true IAT2 after the blower.

2. The Tranny we have is a 6L80E and she takes Dex VI.

P.S. We have a fill cap on the passenger side of our ICW system.

STS_Chiller
03-03-12, 12:40 PM
1. YES you can Dave. The PID's you need are Under Engine> General> Intake Air Temp (SAE) (F) PID.15 and also Intake Air Temp 2 (F) PID.2128. I emailed you my HPT Config to make it easier. You can thank the STS-V crowd for that (BMBSALES and BLADES). Before us they use to have to use Manifold Air Temp which is not a true IAT2 after the blower.

2. The Tranny we have is a 6L80E and she takes Dex VI.

P.S. We have a fill cap on the passenger side of our ICW system.

This XLR V has no tank and only a strange little adapter to add water the aluminum portion of line has a connection like AC charge port. . How much reservoir does the STS V have ?

PGA2B
03-03-12, 01:05 PM
We have an overflow tank on the 06 and 07. I understand the 08-09 do not have this. We also have a fill tube back by the passenger firewall.

GizmoQ
03-03-12, 07:20 PM
2 important questions!

And B. What ATF is recommended for 6L80E and what do people use. My former associate used DEX III.


Owners Manual says:

DEXRONģ-III Automatic Transmission Fluid. Look for ďApproved for the H-SpecificationĒ on the label.

STS_Chiller
03-03-12, 07:24 PM
Owners Manual says:

DEXRONģ-III Automatic Transmission Fluid. Look for “Approved for the H-Specification” on the label.

How bad do you want your headlight washers? This tank looks cramp.

GizmoQ
03-03-12, 08:37 PM
How bad do you want your headlight washers? This tank looks cramp.

Pic???

STS_Chiller
03-03-12, 09:12 PM
You want a picture of washer tank? You didn’t buy Snow kit for washer tank you bought one with tank so there is no washer tank adapter. I was thinking of using port for headlight pump. You really planning on spraying plastic headlights with Methanol? You think we can schedule some Dyno time when you pick up car to test results? PGA2Bsent me some great HPT files to log IAT 1 and 2 as well as boost then we have the digital ICWT display. I don’t think the HPT setup for logging ICWT will be ready by then.

GizmoQ
03-03-12, 10:01 PM
You want a picture of washer tank? You didn’t buy Snow kit for washer tank you bought one with tank so there is no washer tank adapter. I was thinking of using port for headlight pump. You really planning on spraying plastic headlights with Methanol? You think we can schedule some Dyno time when you pick up car to test results? PGA2Bsent me some great HPT files to log IAT 1 and 2 as well as boost then we have the digital ICWT display. I don’t think the HPT setup for logging ICWT will be ready by then.

O.K. Now I understand. Disconnect the headlight pump, remove the lines to the headlight washer nozzles and go for it! As a matter of fact, you can snap out the headlight washer nozzles from the bumper as well (I'll cover the holes later). A bulkhead fitting (PN# 40080) allows the use of the factory washer fluid tank as a reservoir. And yes, I will have time to dyno - planning to spend a week down there before coming home.

Can the Snow tank be added to existing one?

Don't forget to drain and flush the washer fluid tank. -20 degree F rated, blue windshield washer fluid is acceptable for use and is available at most service stations. Although some fluids rated to under -20 degrees F contain glycol and other copolymers, most windshield washer fluids are up to 40% methanol. Try to find one that displays "contains methanol" on the label and is good to -20 degrees F, with no additives or special ingredients and is blue in color. You can “spike” the Blue -20 Washer fluid to a 50% mixture by adding 3 12OZ yellow bottles of Heetģ gas-line-antifreeze to every gallon of washer fluid.

1madstsv
03-04-12, 08:50 PM
This is y my meth tank is in the truck and is 4gal. You will go trough a 4gal tank in 2weeks of normal driving. With the snakebite set up. I'm meth starts spraying at 7psi and full spray at 11psi. I run 90% meth during the summer and -20 washer fluid from Walmart durning the winter. You will need a bigger tank/you will want a bigger tank.

PGA2B
03-04-12, 11:22 PM
Owners Manual says:

DEXRONģ-III Automatic Transmission Fluid. Look for “Approved for the H-Specification” on the label.

That is for the 5 Speed.

The 6 speed is Dex VI (See below).

http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0015/53/79/15633597_large.jpg

GizmoQ
03-05-12, 12:41 AM
That is for the 5 Speed.

The 6 speed is Dex VI (See below).

http://carphotos4.cardomain.com/images/0015/53/79/15633597_large.jpg

I stand corrected, thanx.

PGA2B
03-05-12, 12:54 AM
I stand corrected, thanx.

Trust me I sure wish we used Dex III because I can't use Royal Purple Max ATF in a Dex VI tranny..........

They don't have ATF fluid for the Dex VI.

STS_Chiller
03-05-12, 06:18 AM
This is y my meth tank is in the truck and is 4gal. You will go trough a 4gal tank in 2weeks of normal driving. With the snakebite set up. I'm meth starts spraying at 7psi and full spray at 11psi. I run 90% meth during the summer and -20 washer fluid from Walmart durning the winter. You will need a bigger tank/you will want a bigger tank.

Wow I would hate to use 8 gal a month! I buy actual Metanol by 5gal use it 50/50 with distilled water on my GTO we don’t see winter washer fluid in Fl. I use former radiator over flow tank it’s larger than our washer tank. I know this is no comparison with Snake Bite stage 5.
Giz has nothing now that’s why I say I bet he has 100hp on table.
I bet with this chiller setup you could significantly reduce that ediction! I hope to get some good logs on Dyno to back this up!
This setup is looking better than I ever imagined, with trans cooler moved there is more than enough room for over size chiller. Only thing I wish I had time to make a under hood reservoir / fill tank. There is plenty room for a gal with a custom tank, this would be a significant help IMHO.

1madstsv
03-05-12, 01:30 PM
I have a larger frount mount heat exchanger that holds a little over 1gal plus the stock one so I'm at 1.4gal total with hoses. I run meth it was good for 30-40* drop. I still can not get over 480rwhp. It's the cams IMO. I can keep the iat2 down to only 20-40 above ambient on a dyno run.

STS_Chiller
03-05-12, 01:54 PM
I have a larger front mount heat exchanger that holds a little over 1gal plus the stock one so I'm at 1.4gal total with hoses. I run meth it was good for 30-40* drop. I still can not get over 480rwhp. It's the cams IMO. I can keep the iat2 down to only 20-40 above ambient on a Dyno run.


Just think if the ICWT was refrigerated to 40deg all the time without that big front mount! You probably could cut back on methanol. What about Torque management? I know some are afraid to cut way back on Torque Management for fear of breaking Trans. TM tables are all zero wed out on my GTO but it’s a stick.

STS_Chiller
03-10-12, 12:28 AM
Here is ATF cooler mounted on passenger side

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/IMAG0770.jpg

Once relocated to front there is plenty space for over size Super Chiller, Diverter Valve and IC Water Pump

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/Space1.jpg

Arrows show ATF cooler flipped and mounted out front

New found space under hood will get a IC water tank

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/TankArea.jpg

Sketch for water tank

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/leftview.jpg

Here you can see low side return adapter fitted no cutting.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/Low.jpg

Low and High side Freon connections.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/Fittings.jpg

STS_Chiller
03-11-12, 04:59 AM
I can’t post any detailed pictures of GizmoQ car for now but you can get a good idea from the first C6 I did. Oh that hole in fiberglass is already there on C6 no cutting or drilling involved. XLR V fiberglass is completely different with more room to work with.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/GrandSport_R.jpg

This picture was as far as I got to dual chillers for the dual in and out the EForce has. Just ended up doing R side we had so much trouble with difficult welding back then. I have a welder now that can weld anything I need first shot. With results we have had there has never been a need for larger Super Chiller. Now with GizmoQ we are adding another 10 plates.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/GrandSport_L.jpg

STS_Chiller
03-11-12, 09:39 AM
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/C6-1.jpg

Here is the only ZR1 kit that I shipped. ZR1 is not ready yet so wiring and water lines did not ship and not pictured but you can get good idea what is included.

STS_Chiller
03-14-12, 08:05 AM
Bump to view account updates / Don't see them hmmm

550HP STSV
03-14-12, 09:10 AM
Any idea when this will be ready for production?

STS_Chiller
03-14-12, 11:06 AM
Any idea when this will be ready for production?
??
XLR V 2 wks

ZR1 2wks

----------


Any idea when this will be ready for production?
??
XLR V 2 wks

ZR1 2wks

STS_Chiller
04-06-12, 05:57 PM
Here are some teaser pictures of GizmoQ car.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/Liquid.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/Lines.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/Front.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/Side.jpg

parkeraire
04-07-12, 08:39 AM
what is the superheat on that txv set at?

GizmoQ
04-09-12, 03:52 PM
The Active InterChiller works as advertised, so far. 78* ambient cruised 20 miles at 70MPH -IC water temp was 127*. Turned chiller on same trip, same speed - IC water temp 44*. Can't wait to start adding timing back in!

STS_Chiller
04-09-12, 05:15 PM
OMG That’s 83 deg difference!

1madstsv
04-10-12, 11:11 AM
Ok that sounds great but 70mph is far off of wot at 100+mph at 19psi. What I want to know is what is the iat2 temps at speed and wot. when I dynoed my car last week iat2 was 10* higher than outside air temps. And at wot it went up to 155* max. So it was 68* when I dynoed so I want to know what your temps go to under close temps at wot.

STS_Chiller
04-10-12, 01:51 PM
Ok that sounds great but 70mph is far off of wot at 100+mph at 19psi. What I want to know is what is the iat2 temps at speed and wot. when I dynoed my car last week iat2 was 10* higher than outside air temps. And at wot it went up to 155* max. So it was 68* when I dynoed so I want to know what your temps go to under close temps at wot.

What is your intercooler water temp during above conditions? That’s what will tell you how efficient intercooler is working. If water is hot intercooler is working if water stays near the same then there is no heat transfer. GizmoQ will have more info for you soon. I believe refrigerated water will cool IAT2 better than hot water even on a Northstar.

GizmoQ
04-10-12, 03:13 PM
Did some data logging on the 1100mile trip home. Without the chiller cruising at 84 the modified pump and intercooler surprised me. With no chiller, IC water temp stayed right around 114* (lots of air coming in at that speed). Interestingly, the Active Interchiller at that speed only got the IC water temp down to around 69*. Hmmm. Maybe that was because it wasn't in competition mode (forgot to flip the switch).

1madstsv
04-10-12, 03:50 PM
I do not know what my ic water temp is. Never checked it only iat2 before big fount mount heat exchanger. Iat2 would go to 180-190* in 45* weather now only 155* in 65* weather.

STS_Chiller
04-10-12, 08:15 PM
Did some data logging on the 1100mile trip home. Without the chiller cruising at 84 the modified pump and intercooler surprised me. With no chiller, IC water temp stayed right around 114* (lots of air coming in at that speed). Interestingly, the Active Interchiller at that speed only got the IC water temp down to around 69*. Hmmm. Maybe that was because it wasn't in competition mode (forgot to flip the switch).

I would say if AC was good and cold that the blower was making a lot more heat at that speed and intercooler was working well transferring heat to water. We knew going in this would not be as efficient as a Maggie on a LS3 thatís why I increased chiller size 30%. Thatís still around 45deg improvement. We still have the option to try adjusting the Super Chiller Valve. We just plain ran out of time or I would have made 1 more adjustment. Your Freon charge is now 1lb 5oz btw. What about ICWT when youíre stopped and chiller is off how fast does it climb? Your new water tank helps with or without chiller too.


I do not know what my ic water temp is. Never checked it only iat2 before big fount mount heat exchanger. Iat2 would go to 180-190* in 45* weather now only 155* in 65* weather.

IMHO youíre big fount mount heat exchanger does not help much when youíre going slow or stopped. Donít forget when AC/Chiller is on heat exchanger is not used. Chiller will keep water cold when stopped going slow or fast air flow is not needed at all.

GizmoQ
04-10-12, 11:17 PM
As soon as I slow down under 50MPH, ICW drops to 41-47* in traffic. When chiller has run for 30 minutes or so and turned off, temps rise back to normal about 30 minutes later. The extra tank makes a big difference. The water in it is cold, the tank is cold, the line to the SC is cold - so the all take a while to warm up. Works great, Dave. Good job on the storage tank.

rbanshee1
04-14-12, 11:47 PM
I would say if AC was good and cold that the blower was making a lot more heat at that speed and intercooler was working well transferring heat to water. We knew going in this would not be as efficient as a Maggie on a LS3 that’s why I increased chiller size 30%. That’s still around 45deg improvement. We still have the option to try adjusting the Super Chiller Valve. We just plain ran out of time or I would have made 1 more adjustment. Your Freon charge is now 1lb 5oz btw. What about ICWT when you’re stopped and chiller is off how fast does it climb? Your new water tank helps with or without chiller too.

IMHO you’re big fount mount heat exchanger does not help much when you’re going slow or stopped. Don’t forget when AC/Chiller is on heat exchanger is not used. Chiller will keep water cold when stopped going slow or fast air flow is not needed at all.

I would like to purchase for my 09 cts v ,please send me your info for ordering,thank you

STS_Chiller
04-21-12, 09:22 PM
Here is the reservoir we made before it was insulated and a good picture of GizmoQ car without the bumper cover and trim. You can see the Super Chiller, relocated Meziere Pump and relocated stock transmission cooler. With this setup all the hoses and lines laid out very well. I just silver soldered steel tubing to existing Trans cooler lines to extend them to new location.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/Rezivor-1.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/TDrive-1.jpg

STS_Chiller
04-24-12, 04:40 AM
Here's the insulated tank installed It’s a tight fit but holds close to a gallon and cleans up the hose routing as well.
http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/Insulated.jpg

PGA2B
04-24-12, 10:52 AM
Looks really nice!!

GizmoQ
04-26-12, 12:47 AM
Gotta find a replacement cap for that tank since all the other caps will be chrome next month.

rbanshee1
05-12-12, 01:12 PM
Gotta find a replacement cap for that tank since all the other caps will be chrome next month.

Well guys,chiller Dave has my 09 Cts v in his shop under the knife,will keep all posted on progress.

STS_Chiller
05-27-12, 01:27 PM
OK the CTS V is back home; I believe it turned out great! One note the CNC quick adapter I was planning on using on STS V and CTS V won’t fit, it’s a different size.
This all started with STS V but still no volunteer car. XLR V and CTS V are ready to ship and we still need a STS V to volunteer! We cover around 10 model cars now as well as the remote Chiller Tank! Let’s get STS V on that list.

CTS V (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2009-cadillac-cts-v-performance-mods/255781-09-cts-v-wanted-first-original.html#post2979254)

STS_Chiller
06-16-12, 09:25 AM
Bump for STS V (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/2009-cadillac-cts-v-performance-mods/255781-09-cts-v-wanted-first-original-2.html#post2997212)

Supercharged_Family
07-01-12, 04:07 PM
I have the car you need, lets talk. 2006 STS-V

STS_Chiller
07-01-12, 04:19 PM
I have the car you need, lets talk. 2006 STS-V

You have PMs turned off Email me with your location if your interested.

Supercharged_Family
07-23-12, 02:43 PM
syandell@gmail.com, still interested

-Scott

STS_Chiller
07-24-12, 06:35 AM
syandell@gmail.com, still interested

-Scott

I’m tied up till after the 7th for CamaroFest3 @ Indy. I will have a CTS V kit on display as well as others. Give me a call to set something up after the 7th. I have a lot of appointments and orders already but we can work something out. I would so like to support the STS V!

STS_Chiller
08-05-12, 09:43 PM
Special thanks to Gizmo for his continued support and displaying his car at Indy!

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/Banner.jpg

Dave G
08-06-12, 04:55 PM
I wish I were closer.

mprice1975
08-08-12, 05:31 PM
Where are you guys at? I'm in Dallas and have an STS-V that I'm having some cooling concerns with. Might be willing to be a test dummy. Also may be moving to Houston by the end of the month if your further south.

CMNTMXR57
08-20-12, 03:56 PM
Man-o-man, I'd love to do this with mine, but alas, I'm way up in the great white north...

STS_Chiller
11-18-12, 01:05 PM
Where are you guys at? I'm in Dallas and have an STS-V that I'm having some cooling concerns with. Might be willing to be a test dummy. Also may be moving to Houston by the end of the month if your further south.

We are in St Pete Fl. I have a Customer flying in today from TX to pick up his CTS V1; He had his car trucked from TX for first Super Chilled CTS V1. It was around $400 shipping one way.

Still need a STS V to step up and be the first! We have a kit for all the other V series ready.

47 Che V
11-27-12, 11:34 PM
47 Che V: I am building a 47 Chevy coupe ground up $$$$$$ cts rear/09 sts v 4.4 streetrod. Almost ready for complete ac/heating cooling, intercooler,radiator ect. This car will be FAT AND WILD. Wish I were in Fla. so you could build me a system.

STS_Chiller
02-03-13, 07:50 PM
I canít believe we still havenít got a STS V volunteer for a Super Chiller after nearly 3 years; cars come from all over the country for this installation.
Here are couple pics of my car, it was 70deg out.

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/Show2.jpg

http://i277.photobucket.com/albums/kk63/TrekGTO/GTO%202point5/Interchiller/Show1.jpg

Fierofiend
08-21-13, 03:40 PM
STS chiller still around? Send me a pm if you see this.

STS_Chiller
08-21-13, 03:55 PM
STS chiller still around? Send me a pm if you see this.

Still hanging in there!

Fierofiend
08-21-13, 08:13 PM
Well that's good to hear. I just installed my upgraded intercooler pump and I'm looking to do this super chiller mod next.

Guy.Seminerio
08-21-13, 08:54 PM
What does it cost

STS_Chiller
08-22-13, 05:44 AM
Still no kit for a STS V, we need a volunteer since each kit is custom for each model car. I have a good idea how to handle a STS V but until I get one in the shop I cant ship any kits.

I have had many interested but timing never worked out. Now is not a good time we are moving the shop, the property sold and we have to be out by 1st of September. Best part we will have an air conditioned build room in new location!

Fierofiend
08-22-13, 08:53 AM
I sent you a pm and never heard back about being the volunteer and what time was required. I haven't driven my V in about a month, its not exactly a daily vehicle for me. Congratulations on the new shop and keep us updated when you get back up and running.