: 01 deville just bought a lemon?



eunos
06-12-10, 03:51 AM
Hey guys im new here, and kind of to cadillac. I have owned an STS but sold it due to the mileage it had(got scared). Anyway I bought this thing, and knowing that Northstars are not very good motors I got it anyway, cruised around came to my friend driveway and BOOM a/c shut off message center said a/c off car is running hot. Well, I checked the reservoir and there is oil mixed with the coolant. I hope its not a head gasket, please if anyone had this let me know, Im 20 years old and had a ton of cars but never liked these motors, got it simply for cruising and hopefully I did not trap myself in an expensive fix.

Mark C
06-12-10, 08:22 AM
Head gaskets do not usually put oil in the coolant. You may have a cracked oil cooler tube in the radiator (if you have an oil cooler, not all of these cars do). Do you have water in the oil?

If you don't have an oil cooler, I would think that you may have a cracked cylinder liner.

eunos
06-12-10, 09:26 AM
no water in the oil

Submariner409
06-12-10, 10:06 AM
:stirpot: Your first post explains beautifully why you should never own a Cadillac.

With that attitude you're doomed before you start. :alchi:

eunos
06-12-10, 10:19 AM
You are right sir. I do not mind putting some money in it and fixing things myself. A cylinder sleeve is not one of those overnight jobs. I hope it is an oil cooler issue, I will check when I get back from work. Thanks for the advice.

codewize
06-12-10, 11:10 AM
I agree with Sub, you shouldn't have purchased a car with a world class engine, which you think is no good.

Secondly, because of very GOOD design, it's almost imposable to mix oil and coolant in a N*. Unlike most other engines which you may be more fond of. Either way you should have had the car more carefully inspected by someone who knows the cars.

The oil cooler in the radiator is a likely cause, which I learned recently from Sub in another thread, but that doesn't explain the heat problem, does it?

eunos
06-12-10, 11:18 AM
Well, what I know is. When I got to my friends driveway after driving it for a bit, the light came on saying engine hot a/c off. I checked the coolant an hour later, and its peanutbutter color. Stuck my finger in the reservoir and found traces of oil in it. What does that mean? Well to me it meants neglegence of maintanance and a car that has 172k miles on it, will not tolerate it. Please keep in mind that I respect all car makers and motors, but there is so much negativity surrounding this motor. Performance is great etc etc. I love the car. Also 0% oil life as of now and thats why I am not currently driving it. Today's project is to do an oil/filter change and flush the coolant system, runs the car some with water in the radiator and flush again. Please, guys dont get on me about the fact that I do not like the motor its a personal preference. I just wish the 4.9 would fit in there, but beggars cant be choosers adn this is not a shock to me, the car ran me 1900$ yesterday. So its a true bargain even if it barely runs! I really hope I can subdue this issue and appriciate your inquaries, thats why I am here, I need some experienced people's help!!!

codewize
06-12-10, 11:36 AM
There are very few ways for oil to mix with the coolant in these engine. 1 way is the previously mentions oil cooler failure, which with that high of mileage is very possible.

Secondly is a cracked block which is very rare unless someone had water in it and let it freeze. If that is the case you're $1900 car is about to become $6000.

You know there is a lemon law and you have 36 hours to return the car for a full refund. You may want to think about that. These cars are not cheap to repair.

Not for nothing but I would have sold you a very well maintained mechanically perfect 89 STS for $2000

eunos
06-12-10, 11:43 AM
The car had only 2 owners since new....I really hope you are right on the oil cooler. Now the oil cooler....is it built inside of the radiator itself?

eunos
06-12-10, 11:49 AM
Also how would this cause the car to overheat????? The only thing that makes sense to me, is the coolant is so messed up, and old, it lost its cooling properties over time....

codewize
06-12-10, 11:50 AM
That's the one I'm talking about, yes. From what I understand, and I've never experienced this, is the oil cooler rots out inside the radiator and seeps oil into the coolant.

Because the oil pressure is greater than the coolant pressure you don't usually see coolant getting back into the oil.

I don't think there's an external cooler on the DTS unless someone ordered a tow package or something.

So if that's the case, a new radiator is the solution. Again, I'd be in a hurry to prove that and return the car if that's not the problem. I feel bad for you because you took a chance on something you were skeptical of and now it's bitten you.

Let's make some good decisions and get you going forward.



The car had only 2 owners since new....I really hope you are right on the oil cooler. Now the oil cooler....is it built inside of the radiator itself?

eunos
06-12-10, 11:59 AM
I appriciate the concern. Just wanted a nice car, good price, checked over everything BUT the coolant...lesson learned. I suppose I will buy another radiator....HOPEFULLY it will fix the problem. In most cases, however, you say that is the problem.....so today's project will also include a new raditor yay! Getting broke by the hour. + a can of bars leaks headgsket repair, might as well add that stuff in.

codewize
06-12-10, 12:19 PM
I would not add anything to the new coolant. Just a nice 50/50 mix of Dex-Cool and distilled water. If anything use the GM coolant seal tabs added to the lower hose, but only do that when you're ready to do the final filling with the new coolant.

Sub or anyone else. Are we in agreeance here. I hate for this guy to buy a new radiator and have it not be the problem. Is there a way to test this theory?

eunos
06-12-10, 12:37 PM
And if it is the headgasket thats making it overheat....Autozone sells this stuff for $60 in a blue bottle people say it works....opinions? Also thermogasket has an interesting section just for the N* motor...

codewize
06-12-10, 03:54 PM
See that's the thing. I don't think just a leaky oil cooler would cause overheating.

eunos
06-12-10, 04:01 PM
Well, if the dexcool has never been changed for 172k miles, it would lose its cooling properties and will not operate correctly. I am taking the gamble and buying all of the things for it. Is seafoam northstar safe?? Im scared to put anything in that car now. POS

97EldoCoupe
06-12-10, 04:24 PM
I am 99% sure I can tell you what your problem is. Loose head bolts (pulled threads) around cylinder #1 or cylinder #2. The oil pressure ports that feed the cylinder heads are located right near the chaincase at these cylinders. I've seen it countless times.

What Code was saying could be exactly right, but I'm considering the fact that the car is overheating as well -

Are you getting any oil leaks from under the car, specifically near the black steel plate that bolts the engine oil pan to the transmission? Pull the intake manifold and check for oil pooling in the valley.

I must disagree when you say these engines are problematic. 172,000 miles? I think that car has done it's job - and if a couple of head gaskets and a thread repair gets your Deville back up on its feet, you are doing good- and so is the beautiful Caddy you bought.

What I consider to be POS engines are the ones that have flaws that CANNOT be repaired or improved. Most Northstars will easily pass the 5-year-old mark before any signs of trouble arise. When these engines don't have the HG problems, they run like NOTHING else. I am sorry to hear GM is retiring the Northstar.

eunos
06-12-10, 04:34 PM
So what exactly can I do about it myself? I have decent mechanical experience but not on N* motors, im used to BMW. Im going to change the radiator and all the fluids today. I have not seen any oil leaks, but hard to tell it was dark, during the day nothing out of the ordinary. I have a crown victoria 180k, regular maintanance and its super reliable....same stuff v8 4.6 just OHC so....no excuses for GM, plus giving the engine to lotus was a bad idea, they should stick to suspension engeneering or building toyota motors. Anyway, how can that be repaired. Thank you sir.

Submariner409
06-12-10, 05:50 PM
DO NOT pour magic fluids into the new radiator/coolant/engine. That will do nothing but complicate a top overhaul if that's the route you choose.

172,000 mile coolant will still transfer heat - it will just eat the engine alive while it's cooling the metal.

If your DTC was not ordered with a towing package it does not have an engine oil cooler.

IF you will do a cylinder block exhaust gas test you will verify or rule out the possibility of failed head gasket(s) caused by pulled head bolts caused by cylinder block thread failure.

IF you have failed head gaskets then the only fix is to drop the engine and transmission out the bottom of the car (DIY), machine the block for Jake's studs (97EldoCoupe)^^^, and do a top overhaul. Stay out of the lower end. It's bulletproof.

Forget the Crown Vic, forget the BMW, forget Lotus - fix what you have.

eunos
06-12-10, 05:57 PM
Alright I will do what I can thank you. How do I do the test? Also if it does not have an oil cooler how the heck did the oil get in the coolant

97EldoCoupe
06-12-10, 06:26 PM
That's what I mean by the head bolts around the oil pressure passage. The bolt releases torque, and the oil pressure passage pushes pressurized oil into the coolant jackets around the cylinders- I've seen it quite a few times.

Codewise may be right- I've also seen that happen, where the oil cooler in the end of the radiator mixes the oil/coolant.

eunos
06-12-10, 06:33 PM
So basically the head bolts need to be replaced, might as well do the gasket at that point

codewize
06-12-10, 06:58 PM
I think he was referring to an external cooler like I mentioned about the tow package.

If the car was not equipped with a tow package then the cooler is in the radiator.


Alright I will do what I can thank you. How do I do the test? Also if it does not have an oil cooler how the heck did the oil get in the coolant

eunos
06-12-10, 08:07 PM
Thanks for your help guys, we will see if I can resolve it the check engine light is on, so im going to see what thats about in a while.

Submariner409
06-12-10, 08:46 PM
Look at your radiator very carefully - are there two oil lines which run from the filter adapter around to the front of the passenger side radiator end tank ?? If so, that is the engine oil cooler. The transmission oil cooler, and every Northstar has one, is piped into the back side of the driver's end tank.

The engine oil cooler in the radiator tank was an option with HD cooling/towing. That's why there are two or more radiator p/n's for the various models - most radiators do NOT have an engine oil cooler.

You can find the RPO code for the HD cooling in the VIN to RPO Converter at the top of the main Deville threads. If it does not come up in your VIN, you do not have HD cooling.

97EldoCoupe
06-13-10, 09:27 AM
I think he was referring to an external cooler like I mentioned about the tow package.

If the car was not equipped with a tow package then the cooler is in the radiator.

Some older model Sevilles (I know it's another model) actually had the oil cooler in the radiator and ALSO an external cooler as well. Weird isn't it?

codewize
06-13-10, 09:58 AM
My 89 has an external cooler. I never looked to see if it has one in the rad as well.

Submariner409
06-13-10, 10:11 AM
I think the engine oil coolers went into the radiator (exclusively) in the mid -90's. GM wanted a tad more temperature control produced by a coolant/oil heat exchanger as opposed to an oil/air type.

Most air/oil loops I see are P/S coolers - some are 4x4 transfer case coolers (looks like a heater core). Problem with engine oil air/oil coolers is that they tend to overcool the oil during <40 degree ambient temperature operation.

FTT843
06-13-10, 08:00 PM
no excuses for GM, plus giving the engine to lotus was a bad idea, they should stick to suspension engeneering or building toyota motors. Anyway, how can that be repaired. Thank you sir.

Lotus does great work. Thats why my 2.2 dohc dodge made 390hp to the wheels with STOCK Lotus head and stock forged internals.

eunos
06-13-10, 08:51 PM
well at this time the radiator is out of the car, and nothing screams oil cooler, nothing out of the ordinary besides the fact that it has no radiator cap(great engeneering)....the coolant is drained and the job was a little bit of a PITA, but its all worked out, im almost certain I wasted my money but we will give it a shot!

codewize
06-13-10, 10:06 PM
That's why I said to make sure. You can probably return the radiator.

Destroyer
06-13-10, 10:35 PM
Hey guys im new here, and kind of to cadillac. I have owned an STS but sold it due to the mileage it had(got scared). Anyway I bought this thing, and knowing that Northstars are not very good motors I got it anyway, cruised around came to my friend driveway and BOOM a/c shut off message center said a/c off car is running hot. Well, I checked the reservoir and there is oil mixed with the coolant. I hope its not a head gasket, please if anyone had this let me know, Im 20 years old and had a ton of cars but never liked these motors, got it simply for cruising and hopefully I did not trap myself in an expensive fix.If you are in Florida I'll give you $400 for the car................anyone need '01 Deville parts? :thumbsup:

Ranger
06-14-10, 12:49 AM
well at this time the radiator is out of the car, and nothing screams oil cooler, nothing out of the ordinary besides the fact that it has no radiator cap(great engeneering)....the coolant is drained and the job was a little bit of a PITA, but its all worked out, im almost certain I wasted my money but we will give it a shot!
Probably should have done the block test BEFORE buying parts.

eunos
06-14-10, 11:17 AM
I will do a compression test on it today. I will not sell this car, I would rather fix it, but if its going to cost over 1500 I will get rid of this car. I love the car but as a college student I do not have that much and 1500 or more in repairs is just stupid the car ran me 1900. Worst comes to worst im going back to BMW and end this bullshit.

Submariner409
06-14-10, 12:02 PM
BEFORE you try a compression test (which will NOT indicate a failed head gasket 99.9% of the time), do a lot of reading in this Forum for how to remove the AIR valve on the rear cam cover (if fitted), then the coil cassettes and plug boots in order to get to the spark plugs. Your engine takes ACDelco #41-987 Platinum plugs which come pre-gapped to .050", www.rockauto.com. 13 ft/lb of torque, a tad of anti-seize on the first 3 threads.

No radiator cap ??? Why do you need a radiator cap on a coolant reservoir sealed system ??? Especially in a crossflow radiator ???

Properly maintained and operating correctly, the entire "wet" system is air and gas-free in order to reduce internal corrosion and water pump cavitation. The reservoir/surge tank is the fill/check point and serves only as an airspace to compensate for coolant expansion/contraction due heating/cooling cycles. That tank pressure cap allows the coolant to pressurize to 16 (or 18) psi, thus raising the boiling point to 265 degrees with 50/50 coolant/water and 276 degrees with the maximum concentration of 70/30 coolant/water.

Your last sentence in the previous post.........You're probably a LOT better off going back to the Beemer - given your attitude toward things mechanical which you don't yet understand, you fit the question....."What's the difference between a BMW and a porcupine ??? (The BMW has pricks on the inside.)"

eunos
06-14-10, 12:15 PM
lol I see this as a challenge, so we'll see what happens thanks for the info. You guys have been awesome, I had an 86 MB and that forum is gutless and full of *******s

Submariner409
06-14-10, 02:58 PM
Every Cadillac (regardless of engine) owner in here has an opinion, but we exclusively believe in mechanical stuff and taking care of what we have. Some guys are new, some are old, most are in between, but we ALL use each others advice to find a solution to common problems.

That said, get on with the job, and :welcome:

eunos
06-14-10, 03:17 PM
Be nice if I could find a shop manual for the car to have around considering everything is such a PITA

tateos
06-14-10, 03:22 PM
I don't think I saw anyone suggest this, but maybe what eunos saw in the coolant reservoir/surge tank was either the remains of GM Coolant tabs (certainly peanut butter color, especially after mixing with Dexcool), or the remains of some other kind of HG sealer that the previous owner had added to buy buy enough time to dump the car on eunos.

http://paceperformance.com/ProductImages/manufacturer/gmaccessories/images/3634621.gif

eunos
06-14-10, 03:33 PM
It's possible but unlikely. The car was owned by a lady, but sold to me through a local dealer the guy said it was he's sisters car. Older black guy, didnt know jack about the car, so it was like squeezing a rock for water to get any info. I should have checked the coolant knowing these motors, but I was so hyped about the price. It runs super and does not have any issues besides when it overheated on me under load(uphill). The coolant was mixed with oil and looked old as dirt. The car was neglected maintanance, which im willing to give it.

eunos
06-14-10, 04:13 PM
Also guys, is it safe to seafoam this motor? Which booster line is the best to take off to do this? Also I am thinking about using it in the crank case.

Submariner409
06-14-10, 05:15 PM
DO NOT use magic potions in a Northstar.

Remove the oil filler cap. Use a good, strong flashlight and shine it down in the chaincase. Is there anything in there that would move you to pour in some sort of cleaner or detergent ? The OLM and a good quality 5W-30 motor oil, in dino, blend, or synthetic (whatever floats your boat) along with WIX 51522 oil filters is all the engine needs for a long, clean, happy life. IF you are concerned about the oil and :D "sludge" hype, go for a long country drive for lunch, come home, jack it up, use jackstands and change the oil and filter. 7.5 quarts, prefill the filter (GM recommendation), and drive happy. The long drive cleans everything, puts all the nasties, if any, in suspension in the oil - you drain it all out.

Unless you experience incredible oil consumption from stuck piston rings or have a "cold carbon rap" on startup, DO NOT pour potions into the intake. DO NOT. If you feel the urge to "clean something", get a 20 oz. jug of Chevron TECHRON, pour it in the gas tank, fill with 91/93 octane and go for that long drive prior to the oil/filter change.

Read your owner's manual concerning the OLM - Oil Life Monitor. It works. Change the oil at 10 or 20% life or once a year, whichever occurs first.

Instant GM shop manual and enough info to keep you reading for weeks: www.alldatadiy.com

The engine has a rev limiter set at 4,000 in N or P, 6,300 rpm shift points. Speed limiter (governor) is set according to the tire speed rating on the driver's door sticker: S= 112 mph; H is 130, and W/Z is 150+.

Did you know that your engine has roller cams ?? Click to enlarge......please don't dump anything in this engine except good oil.....

eunos
06-14-10, 05:24 PM
ONCE A YEAR>>??????????? WHAT??!!! the car has 172k on it, never in my life would I change it once a year. I can see twice or three times a year. To keep a higher mileage engine running right, especially the beloved "problem free" N*, the oil needs to be changed at normal intervals 3-5k depending on the oil Come on guys, this is an American vehicle, yes they are reliable, but I would not do something that would japordize my engine, something stupid like not change my oil on time. The oil life is at 0 right now and I already drained it out. I will peek into the crankcase. Seafoam is not a magic potion. I work at autozone and I am familiar with techron etc etc etc, its all the same bs, seafoam is a bit different. I do agree with the long drive, thats the best natural way to do it. I have seafoamed other vehicles with great results, just saying.

Submariner409
06-14-10, 05:27 PM
Ok, dude. You know it all. See ya' round the campus.

I'm not the only Cadillac/car owner in here who is NOT impressed by DisasterZone.

Did you reset the OLM ???

Ranger
06-14-10, 05:36 PM
the oil needs to be changed at normal intervals 3-5k depending on the oil Come on guys, this is an American vehicle, yes they are reliable, but I would not do something that would japordize my engine, something stupid like not change my oil on time.
You have much to learn.

eunos
06-14-10, 05:37 PM
I have not reset anything yet. The car is apart, the radiator is still out and I have not put new oil into the car. MB says the same thing 8+ qts change once a year, I just dont see that being the correct way(IMO). Working 2 jobs and working on the car is a shot in the dark as far as time, I work on it when I can. Im sorry, you are probably right on the oil changing fram, but once a year just scares me. Im sure the OLM works, or else it would not be in the car. I am just taking it one step at a time, trying to learn more and more about the N*.


Edit:A: Vehicle maintenance intervals of three months or 3,000 miles no longer apply to vehicles equipped with this system.Instead of an actual oil-condition sensor, the GM Oil Life System relies on a computer-based software algorithm that continuously monitors engine-operating conditions and driver use to determine when an oil change is necessary.GM has calibrated the system for a variety of vehicles based on millions of test miles over a period of years.The system is now installed on more than 20 million GM vehicles.


I apologize sir

Submariner409
06-14-10, 05:55 PM
Do us all a favor: After work, pop a brew and open CF. Go up in the black bar ^^^ and read the entire Cadillac Technical Archive. The information in there is distilled from the minds of some of the best engineers and techs in the Cadillac business. You will find much of great worth.

(I see that you have read at least one article - back up that with the notes in your owner's manual.)

eunos
06-14-10, 05:57 PM
I was just doing that sir. :) Also want to post a pic+do priovate messages it will not let em yet, when will it?

tateos
06-14-10, 06:06 PM
The reason the OLM says zero is because the coolant overheated - depending on how hot it got, and how long you drove it that way, it may still be good - good enough, that is, to diagnose your underlying problems. If you change your oil and radiator and the drive the car even a short distance and the car overheats again, the OLM will be on zero again.

eunos
06-14-10, 06:10 PM
Does not oveheat at regular driving as far as I know, only on an uphill

Ranger
06-14-10, 09:34 PM
Eunos, the following is a post from a guy you will hear referred to as the "Guru". He is a GM powertrain engineer who used to post here. He worked on designing, testing and validating the Northstar. It pretty well explanes how the OLM works.



One thing I can touch on and clear up.....the GM oil life monitor operation and my statement that ZDP (or ZDDP as you tend to call it here...most of the API literature just sticks to ZDP so I tend to use that) depletion is the basis for oil deterioration.

My spelling is poor but ZDP stands for zinc dialkyldithiophosphate which , as it sounds, is an anti-wear compound comprised of zinc and phosphorus.

ZDP is dispersed in the oil so as to be at a potential wear site if a surface asperity happens to break thru the oil film thickness causing the dreaded metal-to-metal contact. A molecule of ZDP must be present at that moment to prevent microwelding at the contact site which will cause material transfer, scuffing, scoring, wear and catostrophic failure. The concentration of ZDP in the oil will determine if there is ZDP present to work it's magic. The greater the concentration...the more likely a molecule of ZDP will be there...and vice versa.

By nature, ZDP is sacrifical. As ZDP is "used up" at a wear site to prevent micorwelding the concentration of ZDP decreases.... So...if you measure the ZDP concentration in engine oil in a running engine it will decrease at linear rate based on engine revolutions. Any given engine has a certain number of high potential wear areas where metal-to-metal contact could occur due to reduced film thickness and/or surface asperities....areas such as rubbing element cam followers, distributor gears, rocker arm pivots, push rod tips, etc...... The more of these areas the more ZDP depletion. The more often these features come in contact the greater the ZDP depletion. That is why, generally speaking, ZDP concentration in the oil, for any given engine, will decrease at a fairly linear rate when plotted versus cummulative engine revolutions. The more times it turns the more contact the more chance for wear the greater the depletion. This is as much of a fact as I could quote ever and is really not speculation or anything. It is proven beyond a shadow of a doubt in many studies. That is why it is ONE of the basis for determining oil life remaining and why it is THE basic premis of the GM oil life algorithm. It is only ONE of the things that determines oil life...but it is the one thing that can be tied to engine operation in a linear fashion and estimated very accurately by accumulating engine revolutions via a counter.

The GM engine oil life monitor counts engine revolutions and accumulates the number for the basis of the oil life calculation. It then adds deterioration factors for operating temperature, start up temperature, soak times, ambient, coolant temperature, etc... There are a LOT of factors that "adjust" or affect the slope of the deterioration but the fundamental deterioration is traced back to the ZDP depletion that is inescapable with engine revolutions. The specific rate of ZDP depletion is readily measurable for any given engine so that is the fundamental item that is first calibrated for the oil life algorithm to tailor it specifically to that engine.

You would obviously like to get the oil out of the engine before the ZDP concentration gets so low that it is ineffective at being at the right place at the right time and preventing engine wear so that becomes the long term limit on oil life for that application.

The other things that determine oil life such a acid build up, oxidation, petane insuluables such as silicon from dust/dirt, carbon or soot build up from the EGR in blowby, water contamination, fuel contamination, etc.... are all modeled by the multipliers or deterioration factors that "adjust" the immediate slope of the line defined by the engine revolution counter as those items can be modeled in other ways and accounted for in the immediate slope of the ZDP depletion line.

The algorithm was developed over the course of many years by several lubrication experts at GM Fuels and Lubes, spearheaded by Doctor Shirley Schwartz who holds the patents (with GM) for the algorithm and the oil life montitor. I had the luck of working directly with Dr. Schwartz when the idea of the oil life monitor first progressed from the theoretical/lab stage to real world testing/development/validation. There were fleets of cars operated under all conditions that deteriorate the oil life for any and every reason and , thru oil sampling and detailed analysis of the oil condition, the algorithm was developed, fine tuned and validated to be the most accurate way invented yet to recommend an oil change interval by. As just one example, I have seen cars driven side-by-side on trips, one towing a trailer and one not, for instance, to prove the effectiveness of the oil life monitor in deteriorating the oil at a faster rate just because of the higher load, higher average RPM, higher temps, etc...and it works flawlessly.

The oil life monitor is so effective because: it is customized for that specific vehicle/engine, it takes everything into account that deteriorates the oil, it is ALWAYS working so as to take into account THAT INDIVIDUALS driving schedule, and it tailors the oil change to that schedule and predicts, on an ongoing basis, the oil life remaining so that that specific individual can plan an oil change accordingly. No other system can do this that effectively.

One thing is that I know personally from years of testing and thousands of oil analysis that the oil life algorithm works. There is simply no argument to the contrary. If you don't believe me, fine, but, trust me, it works. It is accurate because it has been calibrated for each specific engine it is installed on and there is considerable testing and validation of the oil life monitor on that specific application. NOt something that oil companies or Amsoil do. They generalize....the oil life monitor is very specific for that application.

Oil condition sensors in some BMW and Mercedes products are useful, also. They have their limitations, though, as they can be blind to some contaminates and can, themselves, be contaminated by certain markers or constituents of certain engine oils. Oil condition sensors can only react to the specific oil at that moment and they add complexity, cost and another potential item to fail. One other beauty of the GM oil life monitor is that it is all software and does not add any mechanical complexity, mass, wiring or potential failure mechanism.

There is considerable safety factor in the GM oil life monitor. Typically, I would say, there is a 2:1 safety factor in the slope of the ZDP depletion curve....in other words, zero percent oil life per the ZDP depletion is not zero ZDP but twice the concentration of ZDP considered critical for THAT engine to operate under all conditions reliably with no wear. This is always a subject of discussion as to just how low do you want the ZDP to get before the oil is "worn out" if this is the deciding factor for oil life. We would tend to be on the conservative side. If the oil life is counting down on a slope that would recommend a 10K change interval then there is probably 20K oil life before the ZDP is catostrophically depleted....not that you would want to go there...but reason why many people are successful in running those change intervals.

Please...NOT ALL ENGINES ARE THE SAME. The example above is an excellent practical justification of why you would want to add EOS and change the 15W40 Delvac in the muscle car at 3000 miles max and yet can run the Northstar to 12500 easily on conventional oil. You must treat each engine and situation differently and what applies to one does not retroactively apply to others. This is where Amsoil falls short in my book by proposing long change intervals in most everything if you use their oil. It just doesn't work that way. You can run the Amsoil to 12500 with no concerns whatsoever in the late model Northstar because even the oil life monitor tells you that for conventional oil off the shelf. Would I do that to the 502 in my 66 Chevelle...NO WAY. Amsoil says I can though. Wrong.


There are entire SAE papers written on the GM oil life monitor and one could write a book on it so it is hard to touch on all aspects of it in a single post. Hopefully we hit the high spots. Realize that a GREAT deal of time, work and energy went into developing the oil life monitor and it has received acclaim from engineering organizations, petroleum organizations, environmental groups all across the board. It is not some widget invented in a week and tacked onto the car.

codewize
06-14-10, 09:36 PM
The N* takes 7.5 quarts. I change about every 6000 - 8000 miles. Don't use Fram filters unless you hate your car. Use WIX, Ac Delco, Purolator, MANN or some other high quality filter. Fram filters couldn't filter a fly out of chardonnay.

Since you now say it only gets hot while driving up hills maybe the radiator is just all clogged up inside OR maybe the water pump belt, (the only belt on the driver side) need replacing or tightening.

eunos
06-15-10, 10:35 AM
I just did a radiator test last night and well found out that it DOES NOT have an oil cooler(1). (2) Autozone gave me the wrong damn radiator anyway, the transmission cooler lines would not thread in, I took a micrometer and checked the width and it was off by like .2XX. They do not carry the right one. I am taking the new one back for a refund ( accidently destroyed the box :)

Codewize: The belt is nice and tight. Also the old radiator is good. So a waste of time all in all. I will probably get rid of the car and buy another at an auction( one that has been taken care of). If someone is willing to do the work they will get a great deal.

tateos
06-15-10, 12:24 PM
Or...you could spend a little money on this car...sure, maybe $1,500-$2,000, but still less than you would probably spend on another car... and YOU will have a great car for a great deal. It just depends on if, other than the overheating, you like the car or not.

eunos
06-15-10, 12:31 PM
Love the car, I am in college and cannot pull 1500-2000 out of my backside. If I had the money, I would fix it now professionaly and be done with it, but I cant.

eunos
06-15-10, 05:41 PM
thinking about ordering Thermagsket, if anything this is a minor leak, and this stuff SHOULD work. I have done some research on the forum and read over 20 pages, I do not live in a high elevation area so technically this should buy me some time until I decide what to do. $2000 engine job is just not an option at this time.

Submariner409
06-15-10, 08:37 PM
Problem is, Thermagasket and the other block/head sealers make it virtually impossible to repair the engine later because they glue and gum up everything.

Before you pour it in, get a notarized, signed statement from them that the product will neither harm the engine or any part of the cooling/heating systems nor preclude overhaul in any way.

eunos
06-15-10, 09:30 PM
I shall, good idea. I will not keep it if it keeps giving me issues. I cant afford major issues right now.

Ranger
06-15-10, 09:48 PM
get a notarized, signed statement from them that the product will neither harm the engine or any part of the cooling/heating systems nor preclude overhaul in any way.
Good luck with that.

eunos
06-15-10, 10:08 PM
seemed to have worked for a lot of people, plus the engine is in its first stages of a possible gasket failure. No smoke, no leaks, no coolant in the oil. So if anything this could really help the car. I dont see how you guys spend so much on these cars, their great, but when a car costs 50k and 5 years later under 15k its just a bad investment in my book. its gotta be the love

Ranger
06-15-10, 10:23 PM
It MIGHT buy you a little time, but not much more. Sooner or later it will have to be repaired properly.

eunos
06-15-10, 11:15 PM
they GURANTEE permanent repair, I spoke to the head Northstar tech there, he knew he' s stuff. I asked him many detailed questions from the things I learned on this site. With basic understanding of most things and decent mechanical experience I could def. tell he knew he's Northstar engine, but the fact that he said that headbolts basically bond to the block under heat/pressure really didnt fly by me that much. He said that he pulled many and never saw "pulled threads/head bolts" due to the GM FLAW in the first place.He also said they have fixed over 700+ caddys and no complaints. Correct me if I am wrong but when I had my 93 STS I did some research and the Northstar is just a beefed up LT1, the LT1 has much less issues, and why do N* are so weak in the headgasket area? I thought it was a "race engine", but under normal driving conditions they blow the HG.......

Ranger
06-15-10, 11:34 PM
The guy is trying to sell a product. You don't expect him to tell you that it won't work, do you? Go ahead and give it a try, but first search out and read the lengthy thread on Thermogasket by rfishing. Repairs or mechanics in a bottle are also called "Hope in a bottle" for a reason. The head bolt threads have pulled and NO repair in a bottle is going to fix that, but don't take my word for it. Give it a shot and keep us updated.

Guarantees mean nothing. MAYBE your money back (if you're lucky) when it fails.

No, the Northstar is not a beefed up anything. It was designed from scratch. "Clean paper" as our old Guru (a GM powertrain engineer told us).

Destroyer
06-16-10, 12:03 AM
Love the car, I am in college and cannot pull 1500-2000 out of my backside.Which is why you should not own this car! Before I decided to part my Eldorado out I had people (with limited funds) trying to buy it. I told them no because it can be a very expensive car to fix and has several known "issues" that exceed the worth of the car and they clearly would not be able to afford the repairs.

sts2980
06-16-10, 12:49 AM
I am newer to the cadillac owning experience, but I can tell ya through extensive research that a bottle fix will not work. There are some premier cadillac mechanics that make a living fixing these cars, and they know there stuff. My personal suggesion, or atleast what I would do if I were you, would be to remove the engine yourself (you seem capable) and ship to Northstar performance here in Ontario, I think I read on there site (northstarperformance.com) that they can fix it for 1000 flat. Not sure where you are located, so as far as shipping is concerned I couldn't guess, but save your pennies and start turning some wrenches, I am confident you will be happy with your decision once it is running properly. If I was local I would try and give you a hand, (ok come by for a beer and observe atleast) just for kicks.

eunos
06-16-10, 04:40 AM
hahaha. Thanks for the inquaries guys, I do appriciate it. As far as pulling the motor and shipping it, its not bad for a G, but this was supposed to be my only mode of transport at this time. I love this car, and would HATE HATE HATE to part ways with it please believe me.I just put everything together, and am doing a compression test, well WAS, until the battery went dead. From the left side of the motor I only had enough juice to do 2 cylinders(front, starting from the right) the first one read 188, and second did a 182, so far so good or at least OK, the delco plugs in there came out with some oil resedue on them. Judging by the looks(50k on the plugs). Of course I would not want this guy to tell me it does not work, but they do work with you on solving the issue, which means considering all things before I just spent my 265$. I did read all of that thread, the guy was havin issues because he was gunning it up the mountain, and at the first 13 pages it seemed like he had no clue what a v8 was(no pun intended). I have messed with a lot of euro cars v12 jags etc etc, and believe me there are cars out there that are more of a pain in the ass. So far as far as driving and overall comfort etc etc is consirned I really enjoyed the late 80s BMWs I had (E30s) and know them through and through. The cadillac just ignited passion in me but believe me I just DO NOT have money laying around. I get payed 200 a week, with that being said I hope that hope in a bottle works to an extent(I think this is absurd that I even bought it) but if it can tie me over and let me enjoy the lac for a good minute I will be satisfied.

STSS
06-16-10, 07:56 AM
I get payed 200 a week, with that being said I hope that hope in a bottle works to an extent

Just try it already, it's obvious you'll only believe what you want to hear.


(I think this is absurd that I even bought it)

Don't worry, we all do. :cookoo:

Ranger
06-16-10, 11:28 AM
Why are you doing a compression test? That will not tell you if you have a leaky head gasket (if that is your reason for doing it).

eunos
06-16-10, 11:52 AM
Cancelled my bullshit in a bottle order(im a car guy for crying out loud).Car is now for sale or trade, have a few people interested. I'll keep you guys posted, thanks for all the inquaries.

codewize
06-16-10, 05:58 PM
The LTx engines are iron push rod engines with 2 valve aluminum heads. The N* is an all aluminum, 32 valve, DOHC engine. They're not even close to the same thing. The N* is very very unique in many ways.

Do you know of any other engine with a split block design?

Submariner409
06-16-10, 06:14 PM
code..........he doesn't understand that the Northstar in his car is a roller cam, 4-bolt main engine with a stud girdle and scraper plate built in. It is NOT an LTxxx or Chevy 327. I went through my share of MG's, Austin Healeys, and a Jag XK140-MC and various Triumph and BSA motorcycles as well as an AJS Matchless 500 single, so am a true graduate of the SU carburetter and Lucas electrical schools; I have a decent idea of Eurofrustration.

If you wanna learn to scream with the eagles, you gotta cluck with the chickens for a while.

Bottom line: You simply can not afford to run a high maintenance vehicle on a part-time college job; get a Camry, used.

codewize
06-16-10, 10:38 PM
Yup, I guess so. I'm just wondering where he read such foolishness.

Secondly the N* is NOT a race engine. It's a high performance luxury engine, if I have to categorize it.

Furthermore we know exactly why they blow head gaskets. Because the pitch on the head bolts was mis designed on pre 2000 engines. Improvements were made in 2000 then I believe again in 2004.

We as a group have collectively decided that leaving coolant unattended beyond it's life expectancy can contribute to the failure. Therefore coolant maintenance is of the utmost importance. Although not proven, that's what we believe.



code..........he doesn't understand that the Northstar in his car is a roller cam, 4-bolt main engine with a stud girdle and scraper plate built in. It is NOT an LTxxx or Chevy 327. I went through my share of MG's, Austin Healeys, and a Jag XK140-MC and various Triumph and BSA motorcycles as well as an AJS Matchless 500 single, so am a true graduate of the SU carburetter and Lucas electrical schools; I have a decent idea of Eurofrustration.

If you wanna learn to scream with the eagles, you gotta cluck with the chickens for a while.

Bottom line: You simply can not afford to run a high maintenance vehicle on a part-time college job; get a Camry, used.

tateos
06-17-10, 12:37 AM
Love the car, I am in college and cannot pull 1500-2000 out of my backside. If I had the money, I would fix it now professionaly and be done with it, but I cant.

OK - I get that part, but the car is basically worthless as-is, so where are you going to get the money to buy another car? And do you really think that car will not ever require any repairs? I'm not arguing with your logic - just trying to understand it.

eunos
06-17-10, 05:48 AM
Ok guys new diagnosis....its now worse.

Since parking the car after my first hot run. I have now done the following, clean the radiator and check for leaks, changed the thermostat, all new oil, 4/8 plugs are new AC delco type that Submariner has recommended, the check engine is off now.

I almost traded the car for a 94 bmw 325i, here is why I did not.

After adding new coolant earlier today, I made it maybe a mile before it overheated on me AGAIN, low coolant light kept coming on when coolant was full(I checked countless times). Just a few hours ago the thermostat got changed and I thought, ok this has got to be it....WRONG,roblem persists and has gotten much worse. STILL no sign of a blown HG, no smoke, no coolant in oil, and now no oil in coolant.

What in the hell is going on? the last thing I can do is flush the motor hoping there is a clog, but the problem has a pattern and now overheats at about the same time (down the street, take a right go to end of the street temp climbs and car overheats)

Submariner409
06-17-10, 08:50 AM
Have you checked the water pump belt drive system ? Your overheating seems to begin fairly rapidly.

Have you observed the cooling fans for proper operation and speed shift ?

The oddball socket (it is huge) is required to remove the water pump capsule - it's a complete unit - and the job is interesting. Many posts about the job - look in Tech Tips.

Does the heater (yes, I know it's summer........) blow hot, warm, or cold air when the engine is warm ?

Click on the thumbnails to enlarge.........

eunos
06-17-10, 11:00 AM
Have you checked the water pump belt drive system ? Your overheating seems to begin fairly rapidly.-The belt is fine at full tension it seems

Have you observed the cooling fans for proper operation and speed shift ? -Yes fans are GOOD



Does the heater (yes, I know it's summer........) blow hot, warm, or cold air when the engine is warm ?-WARM until I give it gas, if I get off the gas its warm AT BEST

And it seems that the heater does not even come on sometimes, with the a/c on the heat is not blowing.

eunos
06-17-10, 11:43 AM
When I got the car, at least I had time to drive it around before I ran into my uphill problem, but now after takign the radiator out and flushing it with water I cant even go down the street with it overheating. Still have yet to flush the system completely....

tateos
06-17-10, 01:20 PM
This is a long thread - I can't remember - did you ever check the purge line for flow?

There is something wrong here - the engine should not overheat in 1 mile no matter what. A low coolant light when there is adequate coolant or water in the surge tank could be a bad connection at the coolant level sensor, or a bad sensor itself.

eunos
06-17-10, 01:42 PM
have not checked the purge line is that the small one coming off to the side?

eunos
06-17-10, 02:44 PM
Just had a friend talk toa master tech said its due to poor circulation, the plastic gear is either not spinning or spinning but very slowly. Going to replace that today

Submariner409
06-17-10, 03:50 PM
What plastic gear ???

There is NO "plastic gear" anywhere in a Northstar cooling system.

eunos
06-17-10, 04:02 PM
lol I was about to say wtf did i just write, no no. He said the pulley is either not spinning or spinning too slow for circulation

ejguillot
06-17-10, 04:09 PM
What plastic gear ???

There is NO "plastic gear" anywhere in a Northstar cooling system.

The only thing I can think of that might be called a "plastic gear" is the water pump tensioner pulley.

eunos, if you think that a Cadillac Deville is hard to work on and expensive to fix, since you like German cars so much, why don't you go look at the depreciation and upkeep costs of a 2000+ MS S-class or BMW 7-series (the 2 cars closest in size to a Deville)?

Seriously, the upkeep cost of a Deville ISN'T THAT BAD, once you get the headgasket issue sorted out. I fixed mine at home (granted, it took about 2 months, but still...)

eunos
06-17-10, 04:13 PM
Very true, im not a "big" car fan as far as the germans go

eunos
06-17-10, 04:43 PM
What was the logic behind a FWD ina nearly 50k car?

tateos
06-17-10, 04:54 PM
Lighter weight/better fuel economy/more interior room/better in the snow?

Ranger
06-17-10, 08:58 PM
I didn't go back and check, but I am sure that at some point in this lengthy thread we told you to check the water pump tensioner and the purge line.

Kevy Kev
06-17-10, 09:00 PM
Wow..sorry to hear man.

codewize
06-17-10, 09:44 PM
I mentioned the water pump belt tension when he said it only overheated going up hill.

I didn't go back and check, but I am sure that at some point in this lengthy thread we told you to check the water pump tensioner and the purge line.

eunos
06-18-10, 02:27 PM
Im having a very experienced mechanic come out to my house today(30 years, more than ive been alive) and do a few tests on it, and replace the water pump and bleed the coolant system properly. Everyone I called said " I dont like working on those engines" and this guy didnt even question it. At the point im seeing some light, it CANT be the HG....no signs present and no leaks, im very optimistic at this point and think this will fix it since the thermostat did not!!! I'll let you guys know whats up!!! Thanks again!

-Alex

Ranger
06-18-10, 03:46 PM
Why oh why does everyone want to replace a water pump when the engine overheats? Unless the pump is leaking, you're wasting your money.

eunos
06-18-10, 04:15 PM
Ok the purge line is the ONLY other thing I can think of, what else can make a car overheat if its does not leak anything, there is no coolant present in the oil, no smoke....? I will have this guy THOROUGHLY check the car. Thermostat did not help. I cant even leave my subdivision, thats how fast it overheats now.

codewize
06-18-10, 04:32 PM
I'm assuming the N* doesn't use a plastic impeller?

I can tell you that my 89 4.5 was getting hot during idle and uphill driving. every mechanic in town told me it was the radiator or a blown head gasket. Guess what. A $40 water pump fixed the problem. The impeller was all but completely gone.

eunos
06-18-10, 04:42 PM
my does not overheat on idle even with A/C, it did go up one bar at idle once, but a minute later went to normal, what the hell else could it be, its worth it since the part only cost me $30, well worth putting it in and seeing what going on. After taking off the radiator and putting it back on it became much worse.

tateos
06-18-10, 05:10 PM
With HG failure, the usual process is that combustion gases are forced into the cooling system, overheating and overpressurizing it, forcing the coolant past the surge tank cap, emptying the cooling system, thereby causing the engine to massively overheat.

When your engine overheats, no coolant blows out of the surge tank? Something is wrong with that story. Maybe a defective ECT (engine coolant temperature) sensor? It's on the drivers side (rear of the engine) on the right cylinder head (closest to the firewall).

eunos
06-18-10, 05:18 PM
coolant does not escape/leak

Submariner409
06-18-10, 05:45 PM
I'm sitting here looking at a brand new ACDelco 2000+ Northstar water pump.

The impeller blades, shroud/flow former, and backing plate are all stainless steel.

Go to www.rockauto.com, surf to your car/engine/year, and open Engine; Cooling. Click on either the small thumbnail pic or the (!) icon for a larger picture of the various waterpump offerings. (Be advised that the ACDelco pumps are "Made in China".)

eunos, You have all the symptoms of an airbound or incorrectly piped cooling system. Is the upper radiator hose clipped up into the radiator sight shield channel or is it hanging down toward the fans ???

eunos
06-18-10, 06:12 PM
Its clipped into the little plastic ring. Submariner, so you are saying that there is air in the system clog/airpocket type of deal??

tateos
06-18-10, 07:25 PM
Its clipped into the little plastic ring. Submariner, so you are saying that there is air in the system clog/airpocket type of deal??

Or, your engine is not overheating.

The system as designed is more than adequate under even extreme conditions. If your cooling system is full, there is adequate coolant circulation, there is adequate airflow over the radiator, and therefor adequate heat transfer (radiator to air), and the coolant is not leaving the cooling system, then it can't be overheating - that's why I brought up the possibility of the ECT being defective.

eunos
06-18-10, 08:23 PM
LMAO, you REALLY think im that ignorant^. SMOKE FROM THE ENGINE BAY MEANS ITS OVERHEATING!!!! It is overheating 100%, and the purge tank BOILS. Wow....im flattered by that comment..im sorry

eunos
06-18-10, 08:42 PM
Ok new discovery. Lower radiator hose has pressure and coolant going through it, the long hose that goes to the waterpump case has 0 pressure.

Ranger
06-18-10, 09:38 PM
Are you sure you did not put the thermostat in backwards? Wouldn't be the first time.

eunos
06-18-10, 10:04 PM
yup....the cycle of coolant is not complete due to a slow turning/failed waterpump

Necrosan
06-18-10, 11:06 PM
And you still have not tried a block test kit?
Did we really need 7 pages of griping to get this far?
Wait - You _WORK_ at AutoZone. They rent those out for $20 + the price of fluid.
C'mon guy, stop throwing y'r $ away.

hcaddy95
06-18-10, 11:47 PM
I just want to ask one question? how many times did you overheat your car to figure out your problem.

codewize
06-19-10, 12:33 AM
I agree, it sounds like it's air bound. My Brougham was a terrible to get the air out of and that's exactly how it acted.


I'm sitting here looking at a brand new ACDelco 2000+ Northstar water pump.

The impeller blades, shroud/flow former, and backing plate are all stainless steel.

Go to www.rockauto.com (http://www.rockauto.com), surf to your car/engine/year, and open Engine; Cooling. Click on either the small thumbnail pic or the (!) icon for a larger picture of the various waterpump offerings. (Be advised that the ACDelco pumps are "Made in China".)

eunos, You have all the symptoms of an airbound or incorrectly piped cooling system. Is the upper radiator hose clipped up into the radiator sight shield channel or is it hanging down toward the fans ???

eunos
06-19-10, 05:32 AM
well , bad news again. The water pump me and my friend installed, let air out of the system by running it, running it with heat, giving it a bit of gas for about 15 min total time with the cap opened and letting the air escape. We have noticed, that the long radiator hose that goes to the thermastat housing is not getting any pressure until i give it gas. STILL, that leaves me with one LAST option thats putting in a new radiator, will do a block test asap I guess...:banghead: any ideas at this point? Car still overheats, not nearly as fast but about 5min of driving, the temp starts rising but by that time im at my house with the keys out.

hcaddy95
06-19-10, 06:19 AM
Do a Block test, Then buy a radiator if your bock test comes back good. You said your radiator was fine didnt you?

codewize
06-19-10, 08:04 AM
Yeah, not for nothing but you're the one that told us the radiator was fine.

Slow down, you've already committed to not returning the car like I suggested.

Stop flying all over the place and lets figure out what's going on systematically rather than taking everything apart as we say it. Did you say you and some friends replaced the water pump? That's a pretty serious undertaking on that car, are you sure you changed the water pump?

tateos
06-19-10, 11:25 AM
LMAO, you REALLY think im that ignorant^. SMOKE FROM THE ENGINE BAY MEANS ITS OVERHEATING!!!! It is overheating 100%, and the purge tank BOILS. Wow....im flattered by that comment..im sorry

No - SMOKE from the engine bay means it's ON FIRE. STEAM from the engine bay could be from a coolant leak. Purge tank boiling could be caused by a bad cap not holding pressure - we've heard of that one before.

Both times my head gaskets failed, they failed suddenly and catastrophically. Some people have written about their cars that show some signs and gradually get worse, or only give trouble under certain, demanding conditions. Not me - my cars acted fine one day, and the HG totally failed the next day. Even when they went bad, I was able to start and drive the car about 4 miles at a time before the engine would start to overheat and puke out water, which is what I kept refilling the cooling system with. I did this once every week or two (the second time) for a few months to keep the car active, until things cooled off enough in Phoenix to replace the HGs and insert the block.

eunos
06-19-10, 12:48 PM
http://www.denlorstools.com/shop/wpimages/Northstar_Water_Pump_4.jpg


This is what I replaced......looks like a waterpump to me...

The upper radiator hose still has no pressure at idle...im thinking clogged radiator.

Also car is for sale for 1700 obo if you guys want to take it off my hands and give me some breathing room.

eunos
06-19-10, 02:51 PM
coolant low keeps coming on the dash as well...faulty sensor? Would a faulty sensor make the car overheat?

Ranger
06-19-10, 03:49 PM
coolant low keeps coming on the dash as well...faulty sensor? Would a faulty sensor make the car overheat?

Yeah, probably a bad sensor. No it will not cause an overheat.

ejguillot
06-20-10, 12:48 AM
Ranger, I'm not sure it's worth your time on this thread, eunos has the Deville listed for sale in the classifieds.

eunos, good luck with your next purchase.

eunos
06-22-10, 11:13 AM
car sold, lost money, time, and more money. Worst car ever bought/thread.

Thank you to everyone who tried helping me. Im looking to buy a 84 coupe deville from the original owner, so we will see if I decide to go with Cadillac again. Bought an eclipse.

Necrosan
06-22-10, 03:15 PM
Ewww.
Wish you luck with the rice, though.

tateos
06-22-10, 07:04 PM
I can see why you didn't want to mess around with a 9 year old Cadillac, so the Eclipse might be e better bet for you.

Getting a 26 year old Cadillac might not be the best idea. Wasn't 1984 the bad old days for GM? That thing probably had a carburetor on it, LOL - yep, that should be good and reliable - much better than that crappy 2001.

sts2980
06-22-10, 07:10 PM
Was Head Gasket.....why are some people stuck in Denial.....Acceptence is the first sign of recovery......

Ranger
06-22-10, 09:13 PM
I can see why you didn't want to mess around with a 9 year old Cadillac, so the Eclipse might be e better bet for you.

Getting a 26 year old Cadillac might not be the best idea. Wasn't 1984 the bad old days for GM? That thing probably had a carburetor on it, LOL - yep, that should be good and reliable - much better than that crappy 2001.

Yeah, the '84 had the TB injected HT4100. Not exactly one of Cadillac's stellar engines.