: UPDATE ON FIRE Recall for Heated Wipers



uncletony76
06-08-10, 01:53 PM
GM Recalling 1.5 Million Vehicles for Fire Hazard

Published June 08, 2010
| FOXNews.com


General Motors Co. is recalling nearly 1.37 million vehicles because a washer fluid heater module could overheat and cause a fire, the National Highway Safety Administration said Tuesday.

The recall covers the 2006-2009 Buick Lucerne, Cadillac DTS, Hummer H2; 2008-2009 Buick Enclave and Cadillac CTS; and 2007-2009 Cadillac Escalade, Escalade ESV, Escalade EXT, Chevrolet Avalanche, Silverado, Suburban, Tahoe, GMC Acadia, Sierra, Yukon, Yukon XL, Saturn Outlook and the 2009 model year Chevrolet Traverse.

The announcement follows a recall in 2008 when GM added a fuse to the vehicles' control circuit harness to address an electrical short. GM, however, has received new reports of "thermal incidents" after the fix. The company that supplied the part, Micro-Heat, went out of business in 2009 in the wake of the initial recall, so, rather than fixing it again, GM will simply deactivate the module. Owners will also receive $100 as compensation for the loss of the fluid heating feature.

The car maker did not report any injuries related to the recall.

hcvone
06-08-10, 02:10 PM
UT, there is a sticky thread up top about this, loved that option, used it on my 07' until I traded it in a few months ago, never took it in for the recall. :)
http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-escalade-ext-esv-forum-2007/148554-major-gm-recall-engine-fires-heated.html

glamis44
06-08-10, 02:37 PM
Thats BS, And then $100 for compensation? What a joke. How about FIX it so it will work.

hcvone
06-08-10, 03:57 PM
That is interesting because two of my 07's had the recall done, so where do I get my $200.00 from?????? I guess since we own GM now I will write myself a check. :crying2::banghead::crying::bomb:

CadX6
06-08-10, 04:08 PM
Being here in the Chicago area, that's one of the features my 07 had that I really miss on my 09. Had the recall done on the 07 & never had any problems. But, at least I still have rain sense wipers (sorry Carl :stirpot:).

hcvone
06-08-10, 04:13 PM
Being here in the Chicago area, that's one of the features my 07 had that I really miss on my 09. Had the recall done on the 07 & never had any problems. But, at least I still have rain sense wipers (sorry Carl :stirpot:).

Now that hurts. :banghead: I do have them on 2 out of 3, so I just don't drive the 10' in the rain:mad2:

lousy_investor
06-08-10, 04:15 PM
can we get the $100 and then reactivate it later on our own? ;)

lousy_investor
06-08-10, 05:55 PM
can we get the $100 and then reactivate it later on our own? ;)

suprego123
06-08-10, 08:22 PM
Is it a real check or a credit toward our next GM vehicle?? So from this point on, they will simply deactivate all recalls instead of fixing them.

CadX6
06-08-10, 09:20 PM
Now that hurts. :banghead: I do have them on 2 out of 3, so I just don't drive the 10' in the rain:mad2:

That's right, rub it in for us po' folk that can only afford two Cadillacs at a time :crybaby:.

IgotGAME
06-08-10, 11:53 PM
I wonder if Toyota could de-activate accelerator pedals?

evois
06-09-10, 04:20 AM
I don't know if my 09 hybrid has it. putting the fluid inside the engine bay should warm it anyway, why invent something that doesn't provide any clear benefit?

hcvone
06-09-10, 07:39 AM
I don't know if my 09 hybrid has it. putting the fluid inside the engine bay should warm it anyway, why invent something that doesn't provide any clear benefit?

It was a great option for the people in the north, but much like rain sense wipers I guess we just don't need it. :(

Big Windy Ext
06-09-10, 07:52 AM
I hope they didn't deactivate mine last week when I had it in . I use it for baked on bugs too !!! . Maybe they can give us heated wiper blades to make up for it .

Ronin
06-09-10, 09:27 AM
I was pretty agitated that when I bought my '07 last year (new, sat on the lot for over 800 days!) that the recall hadn't been done and required a separate service appointment to do so...

I wouldn't have known about the initial recall if I hadn't read it here. This latest one was in the local paper today so I naturally came here to check it out. Personally, I like the feature as it's handy for blasting off 80 MPH bug splatters and melting through ice and snow.

I don't want the recall done. But given the horrific service history and service department that I've been forced to deal with over the last year, I'm sure the next time I bring it in for warranty service (which it seems to need quite frequently) they'll hit the nail square on the head and rip it right out, especially if I tell them not to. I've developed quite the acrimonious relationship with my service department over this vehicle, so this will be the perfect opportunity for me to move the f&%# on to another dealer...

I'm pretty sure that the dealers are required by "law" to perform a recall regardless of the circumstances if the vehicle is in their possession...oh well...

ewill3rd
06-09-10, 09:29 AM
If you take it in for the recall the fuse is removed, the pump is taken out and the harness plug is cut off, taped, and reattached to the harness to prevent water damage.
We haven't done any yet.
I will have to review the language in the recall but we are obligated by GM to check each vehicle as it comes in for service and if the recall shows as "open" we are directed by GM to do it since the vehicle is in for service and this is a safety related concern.

lousy_investor
06-09-10, 11:22 AM
Is it a real check or a credit toward our next GM vehicle?? So from this point on, they will simply deactivate all recalls instead of fixing them.

Wouldn't that be scary? If they are just going to give us $100 here and $100 there for things that require warranty fixes, our trucks would be worth less than half the initial cost. :)

Cadillac Cust Svc
06-09-10, 04:45 PM
If any of you have any questions on whether or not your vehicle is involved in this recall please private message me with your VIN and I will check it through my resources and respond back with a yes or no for you. Thank you for your time.

Jeff Morris, Cadillac Customer Service

North49
06-09-10, 10:37 PM
Thats BS, And then $100 for compensation? What a joke. How about FIX it so it will work.

The sad part about this is that the company that made the heating system has gone under. GM does not have another company to work with to find a solution. :banghead:

CRL1
06-10-10, 11:57 AM
The sad part about this is that the company that made the heating system has gone under. GM does not have another company to work with to find a solution. :banghead:

Found this on the Buick Enclave forum in regards to the heated washer fluid recall.

This company AlphaTherm (alphathermusa.com) is making a replacement heater unit for GM vehicles that is plug and play.

Another interesting article regarding this recall comes from Middletown Ohio.
"Expensive house fire could be linked to GM recall"

Google the title for the link to the article in the Middletown Journal

buckeyefan007
06-10-10, 01:25 PM
I am pretty sure the heated windshield washer fluid was worth more tahn thw $100 they want to give you. I think it was standard on all 07's, but the least they could do is give you the value of what it was worth when you purchased the vehicle new.

IgotGAME
06-10-10, 06:31 PM
They should replace it with heated/cooled cup holders instead. $100??..pfft

North49
06-11-10, 10:12 PM
They should replace it with heated/cooled cup holders instead. $100??..pfft

I hear ya. $100 is almost laughable when you look at the price tag on the truck. And at the expense of loosing a bell and whistle feature too! Sorry .... I like the gadgets :o

cadmanchris
06-13-10, 02:17 AM
Did my first one a couple of days ago. As Ewill said, fuse gets removed and pump gets removed. It cannot be reactivated. Just waiting for my recall notice for my ESV.

itsrixter
06-13-10, 02:32 AM
What they should do is compensate the loss of one feature, heated windshield fluid, for a new feature-BLUETOOTH MODULE. Imagine how that would be: "Sorry but we can remove the heated fluid and install bluetooth to offset the issue":eyebrow:

MATCHN_TOYZ
06-13-10, 11:28 AM
I got mine done on Friday..... I have yet to see 1cent of that 100Bucks.

Unless someone was making that crap up...

:suspect:

lousy_investor
06-13-10, 07:28 PM
Sounded like we are taking our dogs to get "fixed".... And in a way I do feel that way...

buckeyefan007
06-13-10, 08:04 PM
This really sucks!! What if you don't want it done? Are you able to sign a waiver not holding GM responsible for a fire? GM should definitely be forced to give some type of compensation for doing this.

hcvone
06-14-10, 07:45 AM
This really sucks!! What if you don't want it done? Are you able to sign a waiver not holding GM responsible for a fire? GM should definitely be forced to give some type of compensation for doing this.

My last 07' I did not have the fix done, and had no issues over the 3 years I used it, I just would not let them do the update. :)

ewill3rd
06-14-10, 09:33 AM
I can tell you the following things:

1. The Recall specifically indicates that the customer should be cut a check for $100. It does not say how it should be done and I am not sure how WE are doing it yet, they may be taking information and mailing out checks so our accounting department doesn't go nuts.
2. We are required by GM to check the vehicle for open recalls whenever they come in for service.
3. This is a SAFETY recall and we are required to perform this if it is open
4. There is no language in the recall that indicates a customer can decline this recall, no waiver, no opt out, nada.

From a technical standpoint if you were able to opt out of this recall you'd be accepting personal responsibility for any future failure or damages resulting from such a failure. That might even mean 20 years from now after the car has been sold 10 times if some knucklehead parks it in the garage and their house burns down you get the bill. If you want that kind of liability over a luxury feature on your car I guess you could take it on, but why would you?
I don't own a car that has this, but from a personal point of view, I'd probably rather get it done and maybe hope for an aftermarket solution in the near future.
The harness is still in place and some clever person might be able to devise something that would plug in to the existing connections.

CRL1
06-14-10, 02:45 PM
w_w.mediafire.com/file/gzwdczyrgem/nps5EC3.pdf

The above link will allow you to download the instructions your dealer uses to remove the heated washer system.

buckeyefan007
06-14-10, 11:58 PM
Wel I feel this is a feature I paid for and I am almost ceratinif you broke down the package it comes in I was charged more than the $100 they are supposedly going to give. The truck was advertised with this feature. May be take them to court for false adverising???

I highly doubt one could find an after market part to work for $100 installed. Besides who wants some one jury rigging the wires to get it to work? This is a fire hazard already with out cutting and splicing wires right?? Is this not their Flagship vehicle?? They should find a way to fix it right, they already had one chance to fix!

WaterKing
06-15-10, 07:52 AM
According to the site: http://alphathermusa.com/heatedwash-AT-37GM.html There is a plug and play solution...however the recall has all the plug ends cut off. I understand GM not wanting to go through another "we made changes but it didn't seem to be fully successful" debacle but it would seem that they could cut a big deal with the above company that makes the manufacturer responsible for anything directly related to the heater and just replace it with the supposedly better unit for less than the $100 offered. If I responsibly consider the current system a risk and voluntarily purchase and install the cited unit does this mean that GM will take my aftermarket unit out and cut the plugs off if they get there hands on my vehicle? If I wait until they have already done the recall I will have the added cost of connectors and will still run the risk of an overzealous dealer seeing the unit during a routine service and ripping it out. The company's other universal unit might be a better choice anyway because it requires no push of the heated washer switch and no wiring to the inside of vehicle. That way I can use the heated washer switch on the dash to deactivate VSS so I can effectively use GPS or activate rear view camera to see what the trailer is doing.

Ronin
06-15-10, 08:14 AM
^^^ Nice find WaterKing! So basically for around $70 (provided your dealer hasn't already done the recall and cut wiring harnesses, etc.) you could buy this unit, swap it out, keep the feature and Cadillac would be off the hook. Not a bad idea to get around the recall, keep the feature and be safe about it at the same time.

As far as being personally and financially liable for damages caused if the recall isn't done as mentioned earlier, that would be an extremely long and difficult, if not impossible, case to prove and shouldn't worry anyone for a second. And unless it happened to the very next person you sold it to, if it happens 10 owners down the line, 20 years later, the next to last knucklehead owner could potentially be on the hook so to speak, not the original owner at the time of the recall. (I'm NOT an attorney, but do like to play one them there intrawebs!) Do you have any idea how many vehicles are running around out there with much more serious/significant recalls that haven't been done? Not everyone takes their vehicle to the dealer for service and recall notices end up in the trash all the time...

ewill3rd
06-15-10, 09:13 AM
The connectors (both ends of both of them) stay on the vehicle. You cut the heater off of the harness and tape up the wires so that you don't get water intrusion into the harness.
A replacement module will plug right in and snap into the bracket.
This is really much ado about nothing.
There are several other threads that indicate the company that bought the rights to microheat's technology has improved the system and is offering replacement heaters for $65.

I would agree that it is unlikely that these things will catch fire and burn to the ground but if the chances were zero then GM wouldn't be doing the recall.
My point was, if you intentionally don't have it done you are legally liable. If that is a 1 in 10 chance or a 1 in a billion, I still wouldn't take it.
(personally)

No not everyone takes their car to the dealer, but odds are even better that with most of the technology on these cars and poor support in the aftermarket that all of them will end up in a dealer shop sooner or later.

WaterKing
06-15-10, 10:39 AM
Actually CLR1 first mentioned the replacement heater company and after rereading the bulletin ewill3rd is correct that the wiring harness connectors remain intact. That still leaves the question that if I let them do the recall and then install the aftermarket unit that they or another dealer at a subsequent service may think it wasn't done/done correctly and cut out the aftermarket unit. I am not concerned about my present servicing dealer because they use every conceivable excuse to avoid warranty work. So far I have had to remove EVERY accessory installed post new purchase even if it was a GM accessory/part to prove it wasn't the cause of some problem except the GM alarm, 2way remote, and chrome gas cover. My 2008 is now virtually stock after removing Platinum front fascia, GM wind deflector, CB antenna, Borla exhaust, ACS extractor hood, GM CAI, 24" wheels etc. just to get some warranty issue somewhat resolved so I don't feel very dealer friendly and it aggravates me to have a feature I like removed that was installed originally. I like the EXT's so much I bought another 2007 that will see a dealer only if there is NO OTHER recourse. Sorry about the rant.

ewill3rd
06-15-10, 02:30 PM
As I said here or somewhere else, it doesn't matter if the thing is there.
A dealer isn't going to do it again because

1. We are not supposed to do any recall unless it shows "open" in the history report
2. We don't get paid to work for free.
3. Most people would never see the freakin thing during regular service and they would likely look at it and then move on with their lives, or check the history and see it was done already.

CRL1
06-16-10, 11:09 AM
I have downloaded the complete GM Recall Bulletin for this recall.
It is 1.99Mb 26 pages too big for me to upload in a post, any was to get this on the forum.

SouthernLCC
06-16-10, 01:04 PM
At Dealership having a few things done and they are doing my recall. Proactively told me they are cutting me a check. Has anyone ordered the referenced aftermarket part?

WaterKing
06-16-10, 04:02 PM
I have emailed the company for more information...No response yet.

SouthernLCC
06-16-10, 04:40 PM
I have emailed the company for more information...No response yet.

Thanks. Keep us posted. I guess the next logical question becomes the install...

humberto
06-17-10, 10:37 PM
I find it very hard to believe GM cant just fix it the right way how mickey mouse is that?:annoyed:Thats just embarasing.

buckeyefan007
06-17-10, 11:07 PM
:cookoo:
I find it very hard to believe GM cant just fix it the right way how mickey mouse is that?:annoyed:Thats just embarasing.

I have to agree with you there.:cookoo:

ewill3rd
06-18-10, 09:44 AM
GM didn't make the part, Mickey Mouse did.
Since the company that made the thing was bankrupted by the last recall how would you suggest a company that doesn't exist revamp the part?
As stated in other places, another company is offering a module that may be plug and play for about $65.
Not sure if it will be truly plug and play but....

K9Caddy
06-18-10, 10:11 AM
Yes, but GM is responsible for the "Mickey Mouse" company they chose to begin with. We purchase a product and expect it to work, regardless of the recall. Fix it. Plain and simple. We paid for these features, not for GM to omit them at their own will. Then offering a ridiculous $100 check?? Seriously? The company wonders why they were in the position they were in...

How "Mickey Mouse" is the rest of the 70k truck? If the company that makes the transmission's for GM goes bankrupt, does that mean they remove the trans and we can't drive it anymore? That's a pretty close analogy to the one above.

ewill3rd
06-18-10, 01:28 PM
Be mad in one hand and spit in the other, let me know which one fills up faster.

My point is, I didn't make this decision, GM did.
If you guys want to be mad about that and complain please feel free.
I am not defending their position, although at times I can see it might seem like it. I am just saying it is what it is.
The sun rises in the East and sets in the West, and GM has decided to remove this feature for whatever reason. Speculate all you want.
Maybe they approached the new company for a solution and they told GM to get bent?
Maybe a company that is recovering from bankruptcy has opted to do this to help save money?
I don't know (nor does anyone else on here) and frankly, I don't really care.

If you want to keep this feature on your car just don't ever take it to a dealer again and you won't have to worry about it.
That's about the only REAL solution I see here.

Gigantor
06-18-10, 01:29 PM
According to the site: http://alphathermusa.com/heatedwash-AT-37GM.html There is a plug and play solution...however the recall has all the plug ends cut off. I understand GM not wanting to go through another "we made changes but it didn't seem to be fully successful" debacle but it would seem that they could cut a big deal with the above company that makes the manufacturer responsible for anything directly related to the heater and just replace it with the supposedly better unit for less than the $100 offered. If I responsibly consider the current system a risk and voluntarily purchase and install the cited unit does this mean that GM will take my aftermarket unit out and cut the plugs off if they get there hands on my vehicle? If I wait until they have already done the recall I will have the added cost of connectors and will still run the risk of an overzealous dealer seeing the unit during a routine service and ripping it out. The company's other universal unit might be a better choice anyway because it requires no push of the heated washer switch and no wiring to the inside of vehicle. That way I can use the heated washer switch on the dash to deactivate VSS so I can effectively use GPS or activate rear view camera to see what the trailer is doing.


Whoever purchase the above replacement unit, please provide feedback

WaterKing
06-18-10, 09:54 PM
Question to Alphatherm:

I have a 2008 Escalade EXT and am considering getting your AT-37GM or AT-38OD. Am I correct that the 38 model keeps the fluid hot all the time and only needs power while the 37 model only heats the water when the heated washer function is activated on the dash? Can I use the 38 model without mounting issues? Do both models have the same heating capacity? Can I provide your answers on the Cadillac owner's forum? Thank you in advance, Alan



Reply from Alphatherm:

Your operation description is correct for both units.

The At-38OD was developed for easy after market installation. The unit only connects to the battery and there is no need to run wires into the passenger compartment. The fluid is continuously heated while the vehicle is running. The unit monitors the battery voltage and heats the fluid whenever the battery voltage is above 13 volts. This allows the drive to spray hot fluid on demand every time the factory wash switch is activated. The recommend operation is to spray 3-4 seconds and than wait 20 seconds before spraying another 3-4 seconds and so on. This basically simulates what your Escalade does automatically.

Both units have the same size heating chambers. The At-38OD would mount easily in your Escalade in your factory bracket. It is strictly be a personal preference as to what unit you would like to have in your vehicle.

You can use any information you would like to on your forum.

I hope we addressed your questions. Please contact us if any others arise.

The AlphaTherm Support Team.

WaterKing
06-18-10, 10:44 PM
I personally wish I could use ewill3rd as my technician/dealership. He provides information and shows his support and interest in Cadillacs and Cadillac owners by appearing on the forum. I do not expect him to explain or justify GM corporate decisions. As he said, this heated washer thing is a minor issue and yet it seems to create a large amount of irritation in many owners myself included. It is certainly not nearly the scope of VCIM backfitting for bluetooth, Nav/XM restrictions while moving, refusal to support XM traffic upgrade, or loss of rainsense washers in 2010 vehicles or my poor local dealer.

In retrospect for me the reaction is more of "the failure of GM corporate to provide reasonable explanations as to why or why not". Heck, if they told us the whole story rather than dictating a feature removal to a vehicle we have already bought and paid for (well maybe not totally) my reaction may have not been as intense even if I did not agree. TSB's are not meant to be explanations to the general public. So I think this is a GM pr problem and Cadillac is usually the best of the divisions in getting that right and therefore has IMO a stronger customer loyalty and that makes them more vocal when they feel ignored/slighted/underappreciated. I have not gotten a recall notice yet for any of my vehicles.

The feature is important enough to me that I will be ordering the aftermarket item for my non dealer queen 2007 EXT and will report on installation when it is done. Thank you ewill3rd for correcting me on the wiring harness issues...it made my decision easy. I have ordered the GM specific model. If it ever gets into a dealership and they mention this recall, I will hand them the old heater with the cut off wires.

lousy_investor
06-19-10, 12:21 AM
Question to Alphatherm:

Am I correct that the 38 model keeps the fluid hot all the time and only needs power while the 37 model only heats the water when the heated washer function is activated on the dash?



Interesting... but can anyone explain to me why we would need the 38 model that keeps the fluid hot all the time? Sounds like trouble to me if the heating element continuously gets turned on when the battery is above 13V. I would rather have the unit that heats the fluid up when I press the button on the dash. I would think that majority of the time I wouldn't need the fluid hot. I only had my Escalade since April and never seen winter in it... perhaps my opinion will change.

WaterKing
06-19-10, 12:54 AM
My original rationale and the reason for the questions to the company was that maybe the 38 model had more capacity and I had a use for the switch on the interior. The 38 model keeps the fluid hot all the time the engine is running (hence 13volt threshold) so anytime you use the washer fluid it would be hot with the first wipe. To keep the fluid hot after initial heatup only requires about 2 amps per HOUR according to the manufacturer. Obviously the additional logic circuitry in the 38 makes it more expensive. But now I know I can use that model with minimal problems on my Ranchero. On the GM model you must activate the feature first on the dash so you must wait for the fluid to heat first (about 30 sec). I am lazy and impatient. Since both are the same capacity I opted for laziness in installation vice operation and will impatiently wait the initial 30 sec heatup time. DEAD Bug removal is my primary use and I have those crappy 2007 wipers.

ewill3rd
06-19-10, 08:13 AM
Thanks WaterKing.
I appreciate your kind words more than you know.

On occasion I do get defensive and I know I shouldn't. Even though I feel GM is really screwing a few things up right now I still support them. It doesn't mean I think they are infallable, but it means that I just have to work harder to help my customers out.
I don't know the rationale behind this decision, but I do know that all the engineers and corporate people that I have dealt with over the years were honest hardworking people just like you and me. I find that society under the guidance of the media have become corporation haters. It is easy to villify people you don't know who make decisions to keep their company alive and profitable. The days of killing people for profit and walking on the backs of the workers is pretty much over even though some people would have you think they are still alive and well. I am sure that is a subject for debate, but I'm not looking for that argument either.

As should be painfully clear, I try to present the facts as I know them, I may interject an opinion but I try to call it out as such. I believe that everyone is entitled to an opinion, even if it is wrong, and just because it doesn't agree with what I think doesn't necessarily mean one is right or the other is wrong, it just means our opinions differ.
I often find not many people think that way.

There should be some aftermarket options out there now that people have "tasted" this feature so you guys that want it don't lose hope. But in MY OPINION, I don't think even a slim chance that this system could melt down and lead to a fire is worth ANY risk to anyone. It just isn't that hard to work around it, plus you get $100!!
(peanuts to most Cadi owners I am sure)
:lol:

Anyway, if anyone has serious questions about this I'll be more than happy to answer.
If someone wants to complain about removal of this feature that's cool too, I know it is irritating, I just don't want to be drawn in as a witness for the defendant. ;)

K9Caddy
06-19-10, 09:00 AM
Be mad in one hand and spit in the other, let me know which one fills up faster.

My point is, I didn't make this decision, GM did.
If you guys want to be mad about that and complain please feel free.
I am not defending their position, although at times I can see it might seem like it. I am just saying it is what it is.
The sun rises in the East and sets in the West, and GM has decided to remove this feature for whatever reason. Speculate all you want.
Maybe they approached the new company for a solution and they told GM to get bent?
Maybe a company that is recovering from bankruptcy has opted to do this to help save money?
I don't know (nor does anyone else on here) and frankly, I don't really care.

If you want to keep this feature on your car just don't ever take it to a dealer again and you won't have to worry about it.
That's about the only REAL solution I see here.

Not mad at all... I actually have an '09 in which didn't have the feature in the first place. I have other issues with the truck, but that's a whole other story.

I don't care what excuse GM has, it's BS regardless. I don't care what you believe the excuse is either. Didn't ask.

I'm stating my opinion and I'm sorry you don't agree. That is all. Thank you and have a wonderful day!

Ronin
06-19-10, 08:54 PM
WaterKing beat me to it, but ewill3rd is unquestionably a valuable asset to this forum and the Cadillac owners here. It wasn't my intent to "kill the messenger" so to speak, he's simply passing along first hand and first rate information about this particular situation. It's my opinion, and shared by others, that it stinks, but I wouldn't want ewill3rd to stop doing what he's doing and helping us out because we all pigpiled on him when he told us something we didn't want to hear...

petercoolz
06-19-10, 11:26 PM
Is anybody ordering the AlphaTherm replacement module? I was wondering how the installation procedure was.

Unfortunately, I also need to go to the dealer soon too. Are they going to still try to disable everything?

ewill3rd
06-20-10, 06:08 PM
Thanks Ronin.

Don't worry, I have been beaten on in a few internet arguments before and still come back.
I don't think anyone was attacking me, I will admit I got a little defensive.
I'm not going anywhere. I try to help whenever I can, the demands on my time are pretty intense lately but I usually take an hour or so each day to come on here and answer questions that I feel need my input. It isn't quite as much as I used to do.
I click "new posts" and read the message headers and look at ones that pique my interest.

I usually visit recall topics because they are usually surrounded by a lot of misinformation.

I am also curious as to whether or not anyone will do the alpha therm solution and whether it will be a plug and play solution, etc.
I'd love for someone to post it if they do it.

WaterKing
06-21-10, 07:16 AM
As I said I have already ordered the GM model and will report on installation and operation when it arrives and I get it installed. Similar to K9Caddy I have issues with GM about update policies and my other EXT but that is mostly dealer idiocy and my geographic area makes it MOST difficult to go to another. The 38 model sounds perfect to put on vehicles that do not have this feature originally.

I did get a recall notice today and it does provide some explanation and alternatives if you have previously repaired the issue or have other questions. So my earlier reaction was slightly excessive by itself but understandable personally because it is additive to my other aggravations. IMO, GM engineers, assembly workers, and support people don't make decisions of this magnitude and have little impact on the final outcome. I think the Legal and financial teams provide inputs to the Corporate execs who make the final determination and often that is heavily influenced by the bottom line of company at that moment and for the future. After all, this is potentially a $350,000,000.00 customer payout (3.5M vehicles, I think) plus the amount GM must reimburse the dealers for the removal and all the administrative costs. How much of this is being driven by the NHTSA edicts? Don't attack me, I am not trying to defend GM but I know if I was responsible for their pocketbook I would not want to do this unless forced. But at my end it is still a grrr.

Now if someone can tell me how to bend or reform the washer fluid holding tank 1/2" to the front so it clears the sweep of my left front tire I would be most happy. I might have to remove it entirely and just carry a squirt bottle. How ironic that would be.

ewill3rd
06-21-10, 09:32 AM
I think it is 1.5 million units.

I agree that this decision was made by the bean counters and GM legal. Never claimed it was "fair". I think we all understand eachother at this point.
I don't mind the complaining per se, but I sometimes allow myself to become defensive as I often feel like some people are coming after me even when they may not be, for that I can only blame myself.

Do you have oversized tires or something?

WaterKing
06-21-10, 10:31 AM
24" Bazo Miami's with 305/45R24 FALKEN ZIEX S/TZ 04 = 36" diameter = rub with GF 2.5/3 front spindle/rear spring drop kit with 9.5 rear assembly. That's my last rub issue to resolve. Kinda fills the wells.....DO NOT ask how I got to this point, it was dumb. The mismatch color is because I put the platinum front fascia I removed from the 2008 EXT because the dealer would not address the wind noise while it was on the 2008 i.e not the way it came from GM (he was the dealer that painted it and put it on). Won't repaint until everything is sorted out. Hence my dealer animosity and the reason for this no dealer touchy 2007. Also liked the custom candy apple metallic color, fades to silver metalflake on top. Lower front fascia braces have already been modifiied...Don't consider the wheel well liners a problem since I have a heat gun.

SouthernLCC
06-21-10, 02:50 PM
Question to Alphatherm:

I have a 2008 Escalade EXT and am considering getting your AT-37GM or AT-38OD. Am I correct that the 38 model keeps the fluid hot all the time and only needs power while the 37 model only heats the water when the heated washer function is activated on the dash? Can I use the 38 model without mounting issues? Do both models have the same heating capacity? Can I provide your answers on the Cadillac owner's forum? Thank you in advance, Alan



Reply from Alphatherm:

Your operation description is correct for both units.

The At-38OD was developed for easy after market installation. The unit only connects to the battery and there is no need to run wires into the passenger compartment. The fluid is continuously heated while the vehicle is running. The unit monitors the battery voltage and heats the fluid whenever the battery voltage is above 13 volts. This allows the drive to spray hot fluid on demand every time the factory wash switch is activated. The recommend operation is to spray 3-4 seconds and than wait 20 seconds before spraying another 3-4 seconds and so on. This basically simulates what your Escalade does automatically.

Both units have the same size heating chambers. The At-38OD would mount easily in your Escalade in your factory bracket. It is strictly be a personal preference as to what unit you would like to have in your vehicle.

You can use any information you would like to on your forum.

I hope we addressed your questions. Please contact us if any others arise.

The AlphaTherm Support Team.

What I don't understand is if you get the GM replacement model, does it utilize the button that is already on the center console to engage the system?

WaterKing
06-21-10, 06:23 PM
Yes..Functions just as it does currently.

WaterKing
06-24-10, 12:33 PM
Unit came in yesterday....Good instructions, quick shipment. Will put on this weekend and provide comments/pictures then.

WaterKing
06-28-10, 10:53 AM
Took longer to read instructions and gather tools than it took to uninstall old unit and install new one. 7 minutes. No pictures but instructions well illustrated and SHOULD BE FOLLOWED. Four comments:
1. A narrow 12-14" screwdriver makes it easier.
2. For those that are mechanically challenged: use a 10mm socket wrench and remove the corner brace first for easier access.
3. For those that drop screws to never find them again or they go into inaccessible places: tie a string or tie strap on the upper hose that goes to the wipers BEFORE you remove it. The wretched thing tries to go back under the fender lip into the recess and you might spend more time trying to fish it out than the entire rest of the installation.
4. If you get the Safety recall done first: make sure they give you the 60amp fuse back that they remove otherwise you will have to buy another.

The kit came with extension hoses/fittings (not needed in my case) which I will use for some other project.
It is quicker to heat up and activate than the stock unit. Make sure you do run the washer from the stalk with the power plug (or before the 60 amp fuse is reinstalled) disconnected to fill the unit before heating is activated.

dzar
06-29-10, 05:52 PM
WaterKing,

so which unit do you end up with? Which part number, that is. Thanks for being the guinea pig!

The Tony Show
07-01-10, 09:44 AM
To all the people ranting and raving about GM being "Mickey Mouse" or "cheap", be glad that they identified a safety issue, openly admitted it and are removing the heater to make your car safer so you, your home or family don't get burned to a crisp. They're not only handing out $100 to the 1.5 million people involved (which is costing them a fortune), but they also have to pay the dealerships mechanic for every single removal (which is another fortune). If there was a way for them to just replace the unit, believe me they would be. It's costing them far more to do it this way, so they must not be 100% certain that the new heater is any better than the old one.

If heated washer fluid is that important to you AND you don't mind putting an untested part on your car and risking fire, take the $100 and go buy the replacement heater yourself. You come out with $20 left over, heated washer fluid, and are now back at risk of a fire. Hoo-ray.

Honestly, the whining is mind boggling. Perhaps you'd all be happier if GM treated this like Toyota handles their safety issues and hid the problem until a few people died, then only issued a recall after a Senate hearing and NHTSA investigation?

SouthernCaddy
07-01-10, 05:52 PM
Well, I am not boo hooing but I dont like the idea that Obama motors fix is to reomove this from you truck and give you $100. What would it cost to add this to a truck? I bet if you added it from the factory it would cost more than $100 to have it. So why the $100 bucks? My Toyota friends are laughing because the high end Caddy has a recall and Obama motors cant fix it so they remove it. What is next? Maybe if the rear A/c shorts will they just remove it? If you keep removing the items you paid for you will end up with a ford!!!! And I dont want that!!!! I wish they would at least remove the button in the dash so that it will not be there. If it doesnt work it should be on the truck!!

I will go get my $100 bucks and we will see what happens next.

The Tony Show
07-01-10, 05:59 PM
I hear you man, but look- people have already discovered that a replacement module can be had for around $75. If the public can buy them one at a time for $75, GM could probably buy them in bulk for $40 per unit or less. That means that they're spending over twice as much issuing the refunds as they would by just replacing the units. This action has nothing to do with Obama or cost cutting, and everything to do with public safety and ensuring that you car doesn't burn to the ground.

And tell your friends with the Toyotas to watch out- even though they've had their gas pedals fixed and their car is no longer in danger of shooting out of control and killing them, it looks like another recall for stalling engines is coming soon. Even if I'd buy one of Toyota's appliance cars (spoiler: I wouldn't), I sure as heck wouldn't be mocking ANYONE for their car needing a recall. Be glad the people who made your car didn't wait until a few people suffered fiery death to fix a problem they knew about like Toyota did.

dzar
07-01-10, 06:54 PM
With this reasoning, I think the engines should be removed and a check for $1000 (it's bigger than the washer fluid heater, you know :stirpot:) issued to GM owners affected (1.5 million, again, coincidence?):
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE53D31P20090414

I think the major complaint is not that there is a recall but that the fix is not to FIX anything but to disable and remove the faulty device.

buckeyefan007
07-02-10, 01:17 AM
So I had the recall done today. The dealer cut me the $100 check right there and gave me my 60amp fuse to boot. Now I guess I will go ahead and order the unit from AlphaTherm and install it.

Like it was said early it is not the recall the upsets me it is the fact that there answer is to disable able it and leave it. Honestly, this is setting a precident. What could be next? Will this mean now that recalls will not have to be fixed, just cut check and walk away?? This was one of the many features I really wanted when I bought the truck.

Sprint97
07-02-10, 01:14 PM
I purchased a 2008 on 6/23/10 with 21,000 miles on it and the right front door lock would not unlock electronically with the other three. I took it to the local Cadillac dealer 7/01/10 and it was the electric washer fluid heater had damaged the electronic lock module on the RF door. They replaced the lock module and deactivated the heater. Said we would receive a check for $100 in abouit four weeks. No complaints from me.

SouthernCaddy
07-02-10, 01:45 PM
got mine done this morning, my check is in the mail.....I used the heater all the way to the dealer so at least I can remember what it was. Button is still there just doesnt lite up anymore.... :(

PreachRR
07-02-10, 01:47 PM
Had mine done the other day got the check a week later.. I am cool with it.. You know.. you can complain about what ever you want.. Is the escalade perfect .. not by any means.. but mine is a great truck and so far I am a happy customer.. they found a problem and offered a moderate fix..
Oh man .. I know you did not say your toyota buddies are laughing at you.. common really.. When was the last time GM had their cars flying out of control.. and KNEW ABOUT IT BUT DECIDED TO IGNORE IT ANYWAY!!.. Toyotas are for consumer report jockeys that probably not even know how to change a tire.. (sorry to be rude) but in all truth the last people that should have anything to complain about is toyota!

sksmoker
07-05-10, 03:39 AM
I have a stupid question... we are looking at a 2009 escalade. There is no button on the console where I have seen it before. Did it get moved during the year or ?? I have looked at the popular car sale sites for 2009 escalades and it seems to be really hit and miss if the button is even on the console.

Thanks!

ewill3rd
07-05-10, 08:53 AM
It shouldn't be hit and miss at all.
The feature was deleted for '09 production after the first revision of the recall.

sksmoker
07-06-10, 02:31 AM
Ok, thanks for the info. Some of the 09's had it and some did not which was confusing me.

Thanks!

ewill3rd
07-06-10, 07:36 AM
May have been a cutoff in production.
Also I don't think it was standard equipment to begin with. It is an option so you may not see many anyway.

humberto
07-07-10, 09:57 PM
Yes, but GM is responsible for the "Mickey Mouse" company they chose to begin with. We purchase a product and expect it to work, regardless of the recall. Fix it. Plain and simple. We paid for these features, not for GM to omit them at their own will. Then offering a ridiculous $100 check?? Seriously? The company wonders why they were in the position they were in...

How "Mickey Mouse" is the rest of the 70k truck? If the company that makes the transmission's for GM goes bankrupt, does that mean they remove the trans and we can't drive it anymore? That's a pretty close analogy to the one above.

Well done K9Caddy your 100 percent right,maybe GM would cut you a $200 dollar check for removing a transmission that they could not fix lol.

Gigantor
07-08-10, 08:35 AM
Yes, but GM is responsible for the "Mickey Mouse" company they chose to begin with. We purchase a product and expect it to work, regardless of the recall. Fix it. Plain and simple. We paid for these features, not for GM to omit them at their own will. Then offering a ridiculous $100 check?? Seriously? The company wonders why they were in the position they were in...

How "Mickey Mouse" is the rest of the 70k truck? If the company that makes the transmission's for GM goes bankrupt, does that mean they remove the trans and we can't drive it anymore? That's a pretty close analogy to the one above.

Best comment of this thread, now package it in a letter and mail it to the numbskulls at GM. . .and they wonder why they are in the position that they are in??????

hcvone
07-08-10, 11:18 AM
To all the people ranting and raving about GM being "Mickey Mouse" or "cheap", be glad that they identified a safety issue, openly admitted it and are removing the heater to make your car safer so you, your home or family don't get burned to a crisp. They're not only handing out $100 to the 1.5 million people involved (which is costing them a fortune), but they also have to pay the dealerships mechanic for every single removal (which is another fortune). If there was a way for them to just replace the unit, believe me they would be. It's costing them far more to do it this way, so they must not be 100% certain that the new heater is any better than the old one.

If heated washer fluid is that important to you AND you don't mind putting an untested part on your car and risking fire, take the $100 and go buy the replacement heater yourself. You come out with $20 left over, heated washer fluid, and are now back at risk of a fire. Hoo-ray.

Honestly, the whining is mind boggling. Perhaps you'd all be happier if GM treated this like Toyota handles their safety issues and hid the problem until a few people died, then only issued a recall after a Senate hearing and NHTSA investigation?

Maybe you would feel different if you owned an Escalade and loved this option, instead your defending GM, and if your still feeling bad about GM just know that the Escalade is the highest profit car/truck in the GM line. It's nice when the non Escalade owners come over here and talk crap. :mad:

WaterKing
07-11-10, 04:56 PM
WaterKing,

so which unit do you end up with? Which part number, that is. Thanks for being the guinea pig!

AT-37GM....the gm replacement...total cost about 87.00 after shipping.Love it, been though two loads of bug cleaner already.

I think the reason GM did not follow this route is strictly that they "Don't want anymore liability, period." One house, vehicle, and heaven forbid a person killed would probably be more than the cost of 10k recalls particularly since this has been a known problem.

Had to argue with dealer to get my 60amp fuse back, he said GM wanted all the parts returned. No replacement page for owners manual was provided, dealer was dumbfounded when I asked for one.

dzar
07-11-10, 05:01 PM
Thanks. I bought the same one and installed it in ten minutes. I had to spend $4.87 for the fuse... my dealer (who I hate... anybody know a GOOD dealer in St. Louis? Mine lives on Olive Blvd) refused to give me anything. They did send me a check within a week, though; I was completely surprised!

Unit works well and no fires, yet.

WaterKing
07-11-10, 05:13 PM
My dealer who I hate for other reasons had a check cut for me when I arrived and gave it to me when I gave them the keys to the 2008. 30 minutes later I was gone....they even fixed the antenna for the two way remote which had fallen down in the rear. The 2007 goes to a different and more trusted/long distance dealer Tuesday to clear all the suspension alarms after MR shock install so I will see the difference in how they handle the situation. Service reps wanted to know where I got the replacement from because in the south it is most effective for bug removal but few people ever think of it for that.

dzar
07-11-10, 05:22 PM
My dealer who I hate for other reasons had a check cut for me when I arrived and gave it to me when I gave them the keys to the 2008. 30 minutes later I was gone....they even fixed the antenna for the two way remote which had fallen down in the rear...

Funny... my dealer is so bad that one time when I took my truck in for the extremely hard 1-2 and 2-3 shifts when the truck is cold, they game me the truck back at the end of the day telling me they could find nothing wrong, but that since I have an aftermarket alarm system, they would not warranty anything if related to the electrical system... that aftermarket alarm is the GM two-way remote installed by (another) GM dealer. I wonder what they would charge me to restick the antenna if needed :thepan:

NoExpert
07-11-10, 06:03 PM
How in the world will you fellas ever get by without heated windshield washer fluid?

850,000 recalls x $100 a pop = $85,000,000 GM is paying out (roughly), that they didn't have to.

What would you guys do if GM didn't send you a fricken dime for the faulty heater?

WaterKing
07-11-10, 06:04 PM
That is typical. My 2008 had wind noise starting at 40 mph (strange since my 2007 is silent at 90MPH) and serious dust incursion. They made me remove CB antenna, Platinum front end, ACS hood (both of which they painted and installed), GM wind deflector, and GM mud flaps before they would address the issue under warranty and replace the door gaskets. That is also why I now have the 2007 and am going to a dealer 100+ miles father away for it. Love the truck, hate the politics for known issues. Won't buy another until auto windshield wiper, auto headlight, USB, rear camera anytime, nav destination anytime, heated/cooled seats, and bluetooth are all included and warranted up front and even then would not buy from nearest dealer. Looks like 2007 EXT will be my last truck. All the 2007 needs is long tube headers, supercharger, and paint for the platinum front end and ACS extractor hood. Ohhh and also the recall for wipers. And forward camera which is purchased but not installed yet. I constantly misjudge the front position but not because my windshield is dirty.....I have heated windshield washer fluid to clean the bugs away. Once used I would never be without and will PAY to put it on my 78 Ranchero. Silly, yes but practical and worthwhile for me. GM should not have exposed me to this luxury just to take it away.

ewill3rd
07-11-10, 06:24 PM
1.5 million actually.

hcvone
07-12-10, 07:41 AM
How in the world will you fellas ever get by without heated windshield washer fluid?

850,000 recalls x $100 a pop = $85,000,000 GM is paying out (roughly), that they didn't have to.

What would you guys do if GM didn't send you a fricken dime for the faulty heater?

Well it sucks not having it after how well it worked, I have had 7 Escalade's since 07' and I didn't get a dime from GM in this pay out. :)

NoExpert
07-12-10, 09:56 AM
1.5 million actually.

I stand corrected.


Well it sucks not having it after how well it worked, I have had 7 Escalade's since 07' and I didn't get a dime from GM in this pay out. :)

Yes sir I suspect it does. And I believe you have a reasonable expectation to have all bells and whistles functioning on a high end SUV. When they don't function you're entitled to a fix, a replacement, or some compensation. It's a shame that a loyal GM customer like yourself didn't receive part of the reimbursement.

Overall though when you put it into perspective, the heated washer fluid doesn't profoundly effect the looks, comfort, or functionality of this fine SUV. JMHO

SouthernLCC
07-16-10, 03:53 PM
So, I got my AT-37 in, and I do not see any bracket or wiring harness'. I called my dealer and he had no idea what they had done exactly on the recall. COuld I just be missing it, or are they bracket and harness' pretty apparent? I am not real pleased at this point if they removed the bracket and clipped the harness'...

austin
07-16-10, 07:07 PM
I took my escalade in for service, they told me about the recall and cutting of the wires.. I signed the work sheet saying i declined them from doing it.. I then ordered the heavy duty at-37gm replacement module.. Screw that, no ones cutting any wires out of my harness.. Ever! GM can keep the lousy $100 bucks and stick it up their a@$! hahaha

Geee... I hope my NAV doesn't get recalled.. If so, Maybe they'll issue a $150 check for that.. Sure, why not... Just keep taking away features that we all here paid for. :)

The Tony Show
07-16-10, 07:35 PM
Maybe you would feel different if you owned an Escalade and loved this option, instead your defending GM, and if your still feeling bad about GM just know that the Escalade is the highest profit car/truck in the GM line.

As I said before- if it's that important to you, take the $100, buy the replacement module, wire it up and you'll have money left over. Win/win.


It's nice when the non Escalade owners come over here and talk crap. :mad:

I didn't realize owning an Escalade was required to voice my opinion on an issue people are outrageously overreacting to on a forum I moderate. Oh wait- it's not! :)

SouthernLCC
07-16-10, 07:48 PM
As I said before- if it's that important to you, take the $100, buy the replacement module, wire it up and you'll have money left over. Win/win.



I didn't realize owning an Escalade was required to voice my opinion on an issue people are outrageously overreacting to on a forum I moderate. Oh wait- it's not! :)

And how exactly am I suppose to do that now that they have cut the harness wires and removed the holding bracket? I do not see this as an overreaction...

The Tony Show
07-16-10, 09:34 PM
Read this right here (http://nhthqnwws111.odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/acms/docservlet/Artemis/Public/Recalls/2010/V/RCRIT-10V240-4402.pdf), starting at page 15. If they really did cut the body side of the harness and removed the bracket, then they didn't follow the instructions on how to properly perform the removal. That's an issue with your Dealer, not GM.

All I'm saying is that if the recall is properly performed you can drop in a replacement unit and have money left over, which means no one is getting screwed out of a feature they paid for.

austin
07-17-10, 01:57 PM
To others worried about getting there harness cut, and/or bracket removed just decline the recall work to be performed. It's your choice, it's your escalade. There not holding a gun to your head when you go in. You have to authorize what work is to be done. If they give you a hard time either leave or BS them and set up an appointment for another day then cancel it later.

dzar
07-19-10, 12:56 AM
So, I got my AT-37 in, and I do not see any bracket or wiring harness'. I called my dealer and he had no idea what they had done exactly on the recall. COuld I just be missing it, or are they bracket and harness' pretty apparent? I am not real pleased at this point if they removed the bracket and clipped the harness'...

Any luck finding it? Do you know where it was before they removed it? It's under the driver window, against the firewall just to the left of the frame bracket in the engine compartment. It took me at least ten minutes to find it and I had to trace the fluid pipe. Just to the left of that bracket (which is flush so it's hard to see) is another bracket with the two wire harnesses moutned to it. One had the wires cut and taped, but it's the business end that went to the now non-existent pump, so removing the connectors gets that out of there and you just plug the new unit in.

Again, if these things are missing, then the dealer did not do the right thing as per the instructions for the recall. Maybe enough pressure on them to fix the damage they caused will get your bracket and connectors back? I'd give 'em hell for removing more than they should have if, indeed, they did.

Jochen
07-19-10, 05:52 PM
Great info on the AlphaTherm unit. Thanks for that!

Seems like an easy fix for a DIY guy. Just placed my order on the AT37 unit. They even ship to germany... 25 bucks postage - will even keep the costs below the 100 US$ check from GM... which i will never see, i guess.

Jochen

SouthernLCC
07-19-10, 06:50 PM
Any luck finding it? Do you know where it was before they removed it? It's under the driver window, against the firewall just to the left of the frame bracket in the engine compartment. It took me at least ten minutes to find it and I had to trace the fluid pipe. Just to the left of that bracket (which is flush so it's hard to see) is another bracket with the two wire harnesses moutned to it. One had the wires cut and taped, but it's the business end that went to the now non-existent pump, so removing the connectors gets that out of there and you just plug the new unit in.

Again, if these things are missing, then the dealer did not do the right thing as per the instructions for the recall. Maybe enough pressure on them to fix the damage they caused will get your bracket and connectors back? I'd give 'em hell for removing more than they should have if, indeed, they did.

Update. I took it to the dealer today and they in fact had removed the bracket. They did not cut the wiring harness but they hid it so well it took them 30 minutes to find them. So they reinstalled my bracket. Took it home and installed it, up and working. My dealer has a bunch of tools working there and I dont mean the tools they use to work on cars...

humberto
07-22-10, 08:51 PM
How in the world will you fellas ever get by without heated windshield washer fluid?

850,000 recalls x $100 a pop = $85,000,000 GM is paying out (roughly), that they didn't have to.

What would you guys do if GM didn't send you a fricken dime for the faulty heater?

GM can stick there 100 dollars up you know where.It would be less of an insult to me if they just didnt pay anything.

Rolex
07-22-10, 11:35 PM
GM can stick there 100 dollars up you know where.It would be less of an insult to me if they just didnt pay anything.

:haha:

Well if you get a $100 check just pack it up and send it back to GM. ;)

North49
07-22-10, 11:54 PM
:haha:

Well if you get a $100 check just pack it up and send it back to GM. ;)

I would be just as happy if they sent me the money then left me alone. I've used it a total of 3 times and 2 times were to see if the system still worked :bouncy: Strange as it seems ........ I don't want to loose it. I will get the Alpha therm unit to replace it :coffee:

ewill3rd
07-23-10, 07:46 AM
As I mentioned in another thread.
GM has added language to the most recent release of the recall to allow customers to opt out.
It doesn't "close" the recall so you might be hounded again and again to have it done but you CAN decline.
I haven't read it yet but I read the cliffs notes version that indicated there was opt out information in the latest release.

humberto
07-23-10, 08:06 PM
:haha:

Well if you get a $100 check just pack it up and send it back to GM. ;)

Hey i could wipe my bum pack it then send it back to GM

austin
07-27-10, 07:55 PM
As I mentioned in another thread.
GM has added language to the most recent release of the recall to allow customers to opt out.
It doesn't "close" the recall so you might be hounded again and again to have it done but you CAN decline.
I haven't read it yet but I read the cliffs notes version that indicated there was opt out information in the latest release.


Could you please post a copy of this latest revision. Thank you.

ewill3rd
07-28-10, 08:07 AM
I don't really have a way to do that.
The revision is like 30 pages long.
I used to be able to print to PDF but both computers I did it with quit working for that.
I might be able to take out some excerpts, and paste the text here, were you looking for specific portions?

Rolex
07-28-10, 09:54 PM
Hey i could wipe my bum pack it then send it back to GM

:postpics:

:food-snacking:

A320
07-29-10, 12:35 AM
Greetings all fairly new owner of Black 07 Escalade here in Winnipeg (actually I bought it the exact day the recall was announced for the second time go figure!). My truck is going in for some warranty work and I was notified that they would be executing this recall as well now.

I have read through this thread, and through the recall instructions (PDF file) for the dealerships.

I have ordered an AT37GM replacement unit from Alphatherm as I have to have this feature for our winters.

I just want to be clear on the next steps I need to take here so this all lines up. When I take the truck in next week, I should confirm with the mechanic that they will be leaving in the bracket and NOT cutting any wires correct? Also, I should be asking them to hold onto my 60amp fuse for me as well?

As long as those conditions are met, it should be a simple, drop, plug and play once my AT37GM unit arrives?

Thanks all for the good info.

ewill3rd
07-29-10, 10:04 AM
The bracket should be left in place, the wires are SUPPOSED to be cut on the module side, not on the vehicle harness side.
I am not aware of whether or not the connections on the replacement module are the same or not but the vehicle harness should be left intact.

Someone has posted in a few places about installing these but I haven't read it over.
I am sure you can ask them for the J fuse, we are instructed to discard them.

A320
07-29-10, 10:18 AM
The bracket should be left in place, the wires are SUPPOSED to be cut on the module side, not on the vehicle harness side.
I am not aware of whether or not the connections on the replacement module are the same or not but the vehicle harness should be left intact.

Someone has posted in a few places about installing these but I haven't read it over.
I am sure you can ask them for the J fuse, we are instructed to discard them.

Thanks for the response! Yes I went through the recall instruction booklet and also noticed that the wires are to be cut on the module side and then the harnesses replaced back into the vehicle.

So again in theory, if they do this correctly, I should have the wires and bracket all there in place for the replacement unit. I have to search for this other thread you mentioned.

Thanks again I will confer with my mechanic prior to them commencing the work so I know it is done right.

austin
07-29-10, 11:17 AM
I don't really have a way to do that.
The revision is like 30 pages long.
I used to be able to print to PDF but both computers I did it with quit working for that.
I might be able to take out some excerpts, and paste the text here, were you looking for specific portions?

I was interested in the new part about declining the recall and what doing that consisted of.

ewill3rd
07-29-10, 02:18 PM
This seems like it might be the most clarification I can get on that specific point:


Q12. What should I do if a customer refuses to have the recall service procedure performed on his/her vehicle?

A12. If a customer initially declines the recall repair, please make sure that he/she fully understands the possible consequences.

"An unattended (vehicle parked - key not in the "ON" position) under hood fire that can occur at any time and possibly involve nearby vehicles or structures."

If the customer still refuses, provide the customer with a copy of the "Notice to Customer" document contained in this bulletin, record "customer declined recall repair" on the repair order and, if possible, have the customer sign the repair order. Retain this repair order at the dealership.

dzar
07-29-10, 02:45 PM
Interesting... so they now claim that the heater can catch fire even if the vehicle is not on (running)? This is the first time I've heard that failure mode (and I've read the official release at GM and NHTSA). Seems the FUD factor is rising...

ewill3rd
07-29-10, 09:50 PM
Ooops, here is the "notice to customer" statement.
Seems important


Notice to Customer: General Motors released this product recall in accordance with the requirements of the National Traffic and Motor Vehicle Safety Act because a defect that relates to motor vehicle safety exists in your vehicle.

It was implemented to address the potential consequences of a printed circuit board electrical short within the Heated Washer Fluid System (HWFS). The significance of this failure can vary from minor distortion to considerable melting of the plastic around the HWFS fluid chamber. In some circumstances, it is possible for the heated washer module to cause a fire.


This failure can occur at any time, even when the vehicle is unattended - parked and key not in the "ON" position. Note that a resulting under hood fire could also involve other nearby vehicles or structures.


Performance of this recall procedure will allow your GM dealer to eliminate these risks by permanently removing the HWFS from your vehicle.


In addition to the risk of a thermal incident, including a fire, it is possible that the HWFS will become inoperative at a future time. If this occurs, it will not be repaired or replaced by GM. Note that GM does not endorse or otherwise approve the use of any similar HWFS products that may be sold by aftermarket suppliers.


Even though you have declined to have this safety recall performed on your vehicle, please be advised that if you change your mind, your GM dealer will always be available to remove the HWFS from your vehicle and provide reimbursement according to the terms described in the recall notification letter.


As part of this declination process, your dealer will ask you to document your refusal to have Safety Recall 10153 performed on your vehicle by signing a Repair Order stating "customer declined recall repair". You will be given a copy of this document for your records. Of course, your signature is voluntary but doing so will help prevent the mailing of recall reminder notices to you as the current owner of record.


If you sell this vehicle, you should advise the buyer that this safety recall was not performed on the vehicle and that the recall repair is still available. This notice should also be placed in the glove box so that a future owner of this vehicle will be aware of this safety recall.

humberto
07-30-10, 09:42 PM
Hey guys just got my new heated washer unit the AT-37GM today so i decided to install it. The two plugs on the unit plugged into the GM harness ,clip the new unit on the bracket plugged the two hoses on to the unit and thats it. Took about 8 min to re and re.Very easy anyone can do it and im happy the way the unit looks like the original.

A320
08-31-10, 08:46 PM
Update to my above posts. Escalade went in for it's service/recall today. Just brought it home and installed my AT37GM replacement unit. They left the bracket in place and cut the wires on the module side of the 2 harnesses. They didn't do this part EXACTLY as per the recall though, instead of cutting the wires different lengths and taping them together, they somehow cut the wires right up to the inside of the harnesses and then covered the ends of the harnesses with putty! In any case, didn't matter since the clips that came with the AT37GM replacement unit are both exactly the same as the stock clips. The replacement unit also came with some extra hosing and connectors which was useful because they trimmed the hoses down when they connected them to each other after removing my stock unit. GM also gave me my $105 refund (Canada).

Everything works as it should but my only question is how hot is the fluid supposed to actually get? My Escalade is recently acquired and I haven't had it through winter yet so I never noticed how hot the fluid gets with the stock heater. Upon touching it it's warm but not HOT. Is this how it normally operated before?

Thanks, if it wasn't for this forum and thread, I wouldn't have found this replacement and easy instructions!

ewill3rd
08-31-10, 10:30 PM
It shouldn't be too hot, scalding water would shatter the windshield in extreme cold temperatures.
Never tried to measure the temp, and now I guess I never will.

clk199
06-12-13, 03:06 AM
Great Info. I just purchased a like new 08, and know this truck has not been in for the fix as of yet,,, looks like I will get the recall done, and install the above unit. Thanks!

conedoctor
06-13-13, 04:31 PM
I wondered about the temp as well, the first cycle I don't get much steam but the second cycle the fluid is hot like steam pouring out hot.