: I think I want a V



kevm14
06-03-10, 09:17 PM
I've been a member poking around in the old D-body section for a little while now, but my interest has turned to the "V1" CTS-V. I've been driving my old Caprice for 9 years now and it's great - has 260k. But I came to the realization that without a frame off restoration, it's not going to last forever, and while cool, I can also probably live without my 95 Fleetwood.

A few years ago I became obsessed with the Chrysler LX cars. Then the SRT-8 cars. I even drove a 300C (not SRT-8). Then I kinda started to wait for prices to drop, and while waiting, decided to just build up an LQ4 for my Caprice and outrun the SRT-8 anyway, so I stopped.

Then the G8 GXP came out, and I got all spun up again, since I like GM. I was pretty sure this was the car for me, but it was missing a whole bunch of features that, with the prospect of having my first car payment ever, I would all but demand. And I will say they are in the low 30s right now, and I just can't spend that kind of money. The most expensive car I ever bought was a 95 Camaro Z28 in 2004, for $4200...so if I am going to do a car payment, it had better be the right car.

I thought I had previously written off these CTS-Vs but a friend recommended I look more closely into them and I have to say, aside from being "mid-sized" I think this might be the car for me. Should give up nothing in performance to the GXP, yet it has all those luxury goodies I will enjoy on my mundane commute. I haven't driven any Sigma, but I hope to soon. Hopefully I'll like it. I love the idea of all the features being stock, including nav.

From research, it appears that I may be better off with an LS2 car, though there's no reason an LS6 car can't already have many of the TSB/Recall items done on it. I know I like the LS6, as my cousin had a C5 Z06 a few years ago, and it was an animal. But for a 3800-3900lb sedan, it seems the torque curve of the LS2 would be more appropriate. I also can't shake the feeling that GM had ironed out these cars by 06 or so. Is this true at all?

Here's one thing that has been bothering me: what is up with the gas mileage ratings on these? They are all over the place, with the 04s and 06s being better than the 05s and 07s. It makes no sense. I plan to do my own tuning, as I have experience on current and past vehicles, but why are they different?

Finally, I have kind of settled in on $20k as my target price for a nice, clean, stock 06, with as few miles as those rules allow, which may be...I dunno, 60-70k? And I think I am seriously digging silver. I am in the new england area and pretty sure they are sparse here, according to autotrader. Travel may be mandatory, as that's how I ended up with my Caprice (also silver). A southern car would be even better. But with all this talk of how much the cars can vary (i.e. "this car with 45k felt trashed") flying/driving way out of new england and possibly coming home empty handed does not appeal to me. I lucked out with my Caprice (flew down to North Carolina with a cashier's check), as the seller was extremely reputable and honest (an editor for Circle Track magazine as it turned out), and it was in much better shape than I expected, and has been a great car. But not every transaction works out that way. And that was a $3500 car...higher stakes here.

So after that winded introduction, any thoughts on this? I know these threads abound but I'd appreciate some feedback!

bjv
06-03-10, 10:07 PM
Well we're all going to tell you to buy one, of course.

People with LS6's like them, people with LS2's like them but get kidded mercilessly. The big difference between the 04/05 and 06/07, besides the engine, seems to be the diff and many of those have been fixed under warranty.

People get different fuel mileage too. My LS2 averages 18, high of 22-23 on strictly highway. Some guys have reported a lot better.

But the car as a whole is kind of a mixed bag. It has stiff suspension so it doesn't ride like a traditional luxury car. Also the interior is a bit spartan compared to overly-done luxury cars, but I like it that way. But on a smooth road the car is smooth and quiet. It has a lot of electronics and a reasonably good sound system, but upgrading the sound system can be a lot of trouble. Handling and braking are solid.

I was in the same boat- wanting a G8 GXP, then I thought I might even consider a G8 GT, but when GM pulled the plug on them I reconsidered. For a V8 and manual transmission that left the CTS-V, Camaro and Mustang, but I can't fit in the Camaro and I prefer 4 doors for my daily driver.

MikeV
06-03-10, 10:17 PM
I would suggest not getting too hung up on '05 vs. '06, LS6 vs. LS2. I was just recently in the market and drove two cars locally. First was a black '06 with 44K miles that was just plain beat on. Diff whined like crazy, clutch felt really bad and the whole thing was just loose. Almost turned me off of these cars completely plus they were asking $25K. Then next day I drove the '05 Redline with 33K miles that I ended up buying for $20K. Complete night and day difference. No diff issues (original diff not upgraded), no clutch issues, perfect paint and interior and the whole car is just tight. I mean really buttoned down. Managed to pull .92g on some back roads first day out without really pushing it.

Buy the one that feels the best. You'll know.

Here's a pic

http://lh4.ggpht.com/_0_ukByvrcbc/TABwCQbqOTI/AAAAAAAAABQ/XtYGoqpgrco/s720/100_2210.jpg

jrosevear
06-04-10, 08:56 AM
What they said -- don't get too hung up on miles or year, buy on condition. The car I ended up buying had 44k on it but felt (and looked) almost brand new. There are other cars out there with 30k on 'em that feel beat-on. LS6 vs LS2... I didn't feel much of a difference driving them back to back.

kevm14
06-04-10, 09:07 AM
Well we're all going to tell you to buy one, of course.

People with LS6's like them, people with LS2's like them but get kidded mercilessly. The big difference between the 04/05 and 06/07, besides the engine, seems to be the diff and many of those have been fixed under warranty.

I thought there were other upgrades, like buttons next to the nav screen.

And kidded because LS2 people think they're better than LS6 people, or kidded because LS6 people think LS2 people think that? :D



People get different fuel mileage too. My LS2 averages 18, high of 22-23 on strictly highway. Some guys have reported a lot better.

That's the mileage range I am kind of already used to, but knowing what GM's small blocks are capable of, I was kind of hoping for more like 25 @ 70mph, but tuning should help get me there.



But the car as a whole is kind of a mixed bag. It has stiff suspension so it doesn't ride like a traditional luxury car. Also the interior is a bit spartan compared to overly-done luxury cars, but I like it that way. But on a smooth road the car is smooth and quiet. It has a lot of electronics and a reasonably good sound system, but upgrading the sound system can be a lot of trouble. Handling and braking are solid.

Well when I was asking about GXP vs 300C SRT-8 the consensus was the GXP provided all of the handling of the 300C, plus extra tossability, all on a platform that rides substantially better (kinda like the BMW standard). How stiff is the CTS-V? I assume I won't end up with a car with FG2, but FE4 itself is pretty high up the stiff list. As long as it takes bumps well, I can handle firmness. My Caprice is firm but also kind of crashes over washboard pavement, which I don't like. RI roads are terrible.
I'm not necessarily looking for a world class interior, but one thing that turned me off on the GXP was the features. I mean my Caprice has heated side mirrors and it's a 9C1! The GXP doesn't. My Fleetwood has homelink and auto dimming rear view...GXP doesn't. The CTS-V has all the toys I want, plus a few others, so I think I'll be happy with that aspect. I don't mind rocking the stock stereo, either, as long as it's pretty decent.



I was in the same boat- wanting a G8 GXP, then I thought I might even consider a G8 GT, but when GM pulled the plug on them I reconsidered. For a V8 and manual transmission that left the CTS-V, Camaro and Mustang, but I can't fit in the Camaro and I prefer 4 doors for my daily driver.

I was hoping resale would tank on them, but it's not. Seems that being the last, best Pontiac is partly keeping resale inflated, and that's not something I'm willing to pay for. I drive my cars, not put them in a museum.

kevm14
06-04-10, 09:13 AM
I would suggest not getting too hung up on '05 vs. '06, LS6 vs. LS2. I was just recently in the market and drove two cars locally. First was a black '06 with 44K miles that was just plain beat on. Diff whined like crazy, clutch felt really bad and the whole thing was just loose. Almost turned me off of these cars completely plus they were asking $25K. Then next day I drove the '05 Redline with 33K miles that I ended up buying for $20K. Complete night and day difference. No diff issues (original diff not upgraded), no clutch issues, perfect paint and interior and the whole car is just tight. I mean really buttoned down. Managed to pull .92g on some back roads first day out without really pushing it.

Interesting. Well the advice is pretty unanimous: buy a nice one, not a certain year or engine. Problem is, to get the price I want, I will probably have to leave the area. I guess that's between the buyer and me as to what condition the car is really in, then take a leap of faith.

In that regard, is $20k reasonable for what I am talking about?



Here's a pic


Nice! That looks great. I probably can't go wrong with one of the few available colors, but as I mentioned before I am partial to silver. I haven't seen one of these on the road in a while, it seems.

rand49er
06-04-10, 09:53 AM
The $20k you're talking about should do it, but don't expect the car to land in your lap. You're gonna have to travel, but think of it this way: you get to drive it back. :highfive:

I echo the sentiments of the guyz above. Buy condition more than miles ... just look at MikeV's car, above ... wow! Some guyz flog their rides way too much while others are just downright anal about them; you want that latter guyz' car. LS6 vs LS2 is a toss up. Upgraded diff, however, is a big plus. Be flexible on color, too.

One last thought. Drive one before you decide, then try to say, "I don't want one." It won't happen.

kevm14
06-04-10, 05:17 PM
Yeah his car is beautiful. Plenty of them are in the teens but I'd rather get a nicer one for $20k. That's still going to require hunting, I know.

I found one on Craigslist in the same town I work, for....$13k. This ought to be interesting :eek:

rangerrob
06-04-10, 05:23 PM
nicer one for 20k? you might've found a sweet 04, i'd consider selling mine to you for around that price.... i want an 09 V really bad... Pm me for details

kevm14
06-04-10, 05:26 PM
No mods! But thanks.

Andringa
06-04-10, 05:55 PM
A one owner '04 with 40k-45k will go for about 20k, I think that you should be able to find an '06 with 60k-70k in the same price range.

Good luck

MikeV
06-04-10, 10:35 PM
Thanks for the kind comments. I was REALLY lucky to find such a low mile '05 in this kind of shape. Hate to rub it in but I found it within 25 miles of my house to boot! Really funny thing is I found the previous owners name/address in the glovebox and we used to live within 5 miles of each other but I never saw this car on the road!

I actually feel kind of guilty because come winter I'm going to be strapping some winter wheels/tires on this baby and driving through the salt and snow. Luckily I only go about 6 miles round trip to work but still...

Houdini
06-04-10, 11:50 PM
Kevm14, I've got a 9C1 too...95. It's kinda a beater but the engine/trans is solid as a rock with no major dings/dents and it is a ton of fun to drive. I've kept 3 antennas on the deck lid and the alley light is still on it. It still has a working ignition override from when it was a police car and a full light cutout button. It's amazing what those iron head lt1s have in the torque department. I can't believe how such a huge caprice can flat out fly. I got mine for next to nothing from a police department I work for sometimes. They weren't driving it anymore because it sounded like it had a blown engine and the suspension needed like 2 grand worth of work. Turns out it just needed a tightened exhaust manifold and a new pitman arm and bushings/alignment. We traded a few cheap/used polices lights for the car and finally got the department to get us a valid title. I had to heatgun the police striping off so that I could drive it around. It's funny how nobody passes me on the interstate in that thing lol. Since it isn't in great shape paint wise or interior wise, I usally only drive it on nights I'm out partying and feel like tearing crap up.

kevm14
06-05-10, 12:35 PM
I am going to look at a CTS-V on Monday, and it is an 05. After I get the VIN history, based on the date of work, can people tell me anything about the parts that were installed? Does that make it equally as improved as any 06-07 or did those cars still get a little better stuff? I feel like I am not clear on this, having read conflicting reports.

HeavyH20
06-05-10, 08:11 PM
Aside from the rear end, axles and, of course, the motor, the cars are pretty much the unchanged. There are little items, like the stereo controls on the steering wheel, the traffic NAV item on late 2005 and higher, and some other little tweaks. Like everyone indicated, just pick up the best condition version of any year in your price range and you should be set. If it has the updated rear, that is the big change that will help you worry a little less about the back end.

kevm14
06-05-10, 10:28 PM
But is the recall fix exactly the same as the 06+ cars? Or is it "equivalent?" I just thought I read the 06+ was stronger, because of another change that was not feasible for the recalled 04-05s. I'm just not prepared to have a failure like this. I am not going to drag race the car nor am I going to do major power mods, but I picture PLENTY of WOT runs in first, fairly hard shifts to second, and so on. I never had to worry about the axles/diff on the solid axle cars I had.

HeavyH20
06-05-10, 11:46 PM
The recall replacement is the same part as the 06. In fact, some may have an even newer version than you find on the 06/07. As an aside, my 05 has the original differential without any issues and that is with plenty of WOT jaunsts in first with solid shifts to second. Just make sure the differential bushing and motor mounts are solid and you should be good to go.

I do have a Gen 3 diff sitting on a shelf that I plan to drop in this summer when I do some rear end work (cradle bushings, axles, trailing arms, pinion bushing) but that is because I am planning some trips to the strip later this summer. If it has the newer diff, great, if it does not, you should also be fine in stock trim. There are plenty of folks with their original 04/05 diff and no issues.

kevm14
06-05-10, 11:50 PM
Yeah I just saw the break down for diff replacements in the thread where the guy got a TBSS, haha.

What about the cradle/bushings or the axles themselves? Any differences by year there, or on the recall parts?

HeavyH20
06-06-10, 12:14 AM
I think that most of the time, the axles were part of the recall, if I recollect correctly. They are a bit thicker that the 04/05 versions.

The standard TSB for the rear diff were things like the vent (just adds a tube to avoid the drip). There was a recall for some on the pinion seal and many have had the diff bushing replaced under warranty. What I am planning is the GeForce axles, Specterwerks bushings, third gen diff, creative steel diff bushing and MA Performance trailing arms to quell the wheel hop. I know you are not looking for any mods, but, if I found a car with the CAI, shifter, CAGS elimination, better engine mounts and the rear items already in place, that would be the perfect car. There is not always a correlation between mods and beat downs by the owner. In fact, I would be more suspect of a stock car with shot bushings, leaking engine mounts and a whining rear end than a properly maintained and updated car that you would consider modded. Just look at the overall car, modded or not, and you will get a feel for the attention that owner invested or did not invest. I think it may be a mistake to overlook other cars because of items you consider mods. For many, those mods are preventitive maintenance.

rand49er
06-06-10, 09:14 AM
I think that most of the time, the axles were part of the recall, if I recollect correctly. They are a bit thicker that the 04/05 versions.

The standard TSB for the rear diff were things like the vent (just adds a tube to avoid the drip). There was a recall for some on the pinion seal and many have had the diff bushing replaced under warranty. What I am planning is the GeForce axles, Specterwerks bushings, third gen diff, creative steel diff bushing and MA Performance trailing arms to quell the wheel hop. I know you are not looking for any mods, but, if I found a car with the CAI, shifter, CAGS elimination, better engine mounts and the rear items already in place, that would be the perfect car. There is not always a correlation between mods and beat downs by the owner. In fact, I would be more suspect of a stock car with shot bushings, leaking engine mounts and a whining rear end than a properly maintained and updated car that you would consider modded. Just look at the overall car, modded or not, and you will get a feel for the attention that owner invested or did not invest. I think it may be a mistake to overlook other cars because of items you consider mods. For many, those mods are preventitive maintenance.VERY well said! :thumbsup:

I might not be a big fan of CAIs, but those other "mods" are pure improvements to the stock car and should in no way be considered as degrading the car or its value, IMHO.

kevm14
06-06-10, 05:13 PM
Ok thanks to LS2 MN6 I have the service reports for 2 "local" CTS-Vs.

Here is the report for both:
http://kevinallenmoore.com/files/2%20VINs.docx

Looks like the first car received 2 cradle bushing replacements, but no diff replacement. It did have the trans replaced at 60k...geez. Also received 2 PCMs which seems strange. It does have twice the mileage of the second one, though it did/does carry a Cadillac CPO warranty interestingly.

The second seems a lot more "virgin," having received fairly minor repairs. Perhaps due to the demographic, it may have sat on the dealer lot for a year before being sold. Or perhaps it was a demo?

Anyway, thoughts on these are welcomed.

HeavyH20
06-07-10, 01:43 AM
Looks like both owners were particular about their cars.

The first one has higher miles but looks well maintained. The transmission replacement may have been to address a whine, noise or vibration and was likely not a breakdown (no roadside call associated).

The lower mile one looks like a nice find to me. Had a couple of trim items replaced, a seat cushion and likely the radio for peeling buttons. The report looks like someone anal took care of it. If I were looking for a V today, the low mile one would get my attention.

kevm14
06-07-10, 08:49 AM
The lower mile one has 45,600 miles and is black with tan interior. Asking price is $20,500.
These are the pictures:
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/img_popup.jsp?car_id=276999655&photoIndex=0

The other one has 87,600 and is silver with a black interior. Asking price is $15,999. The black one is a private seller (actually fairly close to where I grew up) and the silver one is at an independent used car dealer. I called on it and it's in the shop for a radiator now.
Here's the one picture of it:
http://www.autotrader.com/fyc/img_popup.jsp?car_id=279910627&photoIndex=0

I am going to look at the silver one this week, maybe today if I get lucky.

The thing about the silver one is, due to some of the parts replaced, it shouldn't be in bad condition. The trans has 27k on it, for example. Or it will feel ragged and used up. I hope I will be able to tell. I'm used to old/high mileage vehicles.

kevm14
06-20-10, 04:13 PM
Alright I finally was able to test drive one of these bad boys. It was an 07 with like 20k on it. It seemed to be a very good example of the breed. Here are my thoughts:

Since I was fairly sure I'd love the car dynamically, the very first thing I did was sit behind the driver's seat after the guy in front of my test drove the car. I am 6'0" and my knees just touched the front seat. So far so good. Then I leaned back and my head is pretty firmly in the ceiling. Uh oh. But it gets worse. I got into the front seat and realized I needed to move the seat an inch or two back FURTHER from where it was to get comfortable. It seems initially, my fears are confirmed: might be a size too small for me, and I should probably go look at G8 to see how that is.

Ok, now that I got the size complaint out of the way, the rest of the car was pretty excellent. I liked the seats. I found the clutch abrupt and very hard to modulate. As everyone says, it was a lot of work to get the car to drive smoothly in normal driving, or even somewhat spirited driving. It wants you to wind it out and shift hard into the next gear. I could probably get used to the clutch, and at least it feels strong.

I thought the throttle response was a little too toned down, but the last ETC car I drove was an 01 Z06. Are the LS6 CTS-V's better in this regard? I suppose the flywheel isn't doing the car any favors. But I was able to rev match a couple downshifts fairly well, just with more throttle than what I remember my LT1 Camaro requiring.

The power was great, as well. I haven't driven an LS6 car, but I did feel what some people said about the LS2, that it doesn't necessarily want to run right to the rev limiter. It felt more like there was torque everywhere, but also a little less exciting because of it.

The brakes seemed great, as well.

The steering was awesome. I liked the weighting, not overly heavy, but the ratio and overall feel was very intuitive. Just a joy to steer. I am not used to steering feel but I am pretty sure this car has it. Sadly it had stupid RS-A's so I had no trouble reaching their limit in basically any direction.

One surprise was the ride. It had the regular FE4 and I really liked the way GM tuned the ride on this car. I drove to the dealer in my Fleetwood (naturally) and while the spring frequency is obviously way higher, it actually was just as comfortable over bumps. Granted I was in CT, and the roads are better than RI, but I think this will do just fine. Hopefully the RS-A's weren't solely responsible for how pleasant it felt.

Another surprise was how unsmooth the idle was. Since the LS2 was essentially tuned down over the LS6 I figured it would be fairly smooth, but in spite of what seemed to be a surprisingly high idle (800?) it was definitely not smooth as glass. Not a huge deal, just kind of surprising. I presume the LS6 is worse.

I also loved the turning circle, but I guess that comes with a smaller car.

What I need to do now is go drive a G8 GT (since I'll never find a GXP locally) and see if the extra size is worth the trade-off in luxury gizmos. At this point I would like to talk myself into the CTS-V because I like most of the other aspects of the car. Of course this 07 was also priced at like $32k and as I said before, I want to pay like $20k, so I'm also wondering if there won't be any "nice" ones in that price range.

Baltimore07V
06-20-10, 04:55 PM
I own an 07 which I bought last year with 17k on the clock.

A rough idle is shot motor mounts. Very typical of these cars. The stock motor mounts are not designed to handle the torque produced by LS2/6 engines. Easy fix with either UUC of Creative Steel mounts (do the full drive train which ever is done). Several threads on this.

Clunky/unsmooth shifting/slow revs. This is caused by the boat anchor of a clutch assembly GM put in stock. It is UNBELIVABLY bad. There is wobble, way too much weight. It hobbles the car, clunks the drive train. Horrid design. Switch this with either an LS7 kit, Monster stage 2/3 kit, or a twin disk if your going to race it. All of these kits will cause the revs to go up and down faster, increase acceleration in 1st and 2nd gear (due to loss of mass in the drive train), allow you to rev match, and get rid of the god awful clunk!

A short throw shifter and axles will round on the package. I can tell you from doing these items on my car that it is a totally different car and experience. The fact is the GM under engineered this car on several fronts, but out did themselves on others. The frame, engine, tranny, suspension, steering, all good. Radiator, axles, diff, clutch, shifter, motor/trans/diff mounts, power steering cooler.... bad. There are after market fixes for all of these, and they work very well. But you will need to budget a couple grand after buying a CTS-V to fix everything GM did not do right the first time. But once its fixed....WOW! Its a thing of beauty.


Alright I finally was able to test drive one of these bad boys. It was an 07 with like 20k on it. It seemed to be a very good example of the breed. Here are my thoughts:

Since I was fairly sure I'd love the car dynamically, the very first thing I did was sit behind the driver's seat after the guy in front of my test drove the car. I am 6'0" and my knees just touched the front seat. So far so good. Then I leaned back and my head is pretty firmly in the ceiling. Uh oh. But it gets worse. I got into the front seat and realized I needed to move the seat an inch or two back FURTHER from where it was to get comfortable. It seems initially, my fears are confirmed: might be a size too small for me, and I should probably go look at G8 to see how that is.

Ok, now that I got the size complaint out of the way, the rest of the car was pretty excellent. I liked the seats. I found the clutch abrupt and very hard to modulate. As everyone says, it was a lot of work to get the car to drive smoothly in normal driving, or even somewhat spirited driving. It wants you to wind it out and shift hard into the next gear. I could probably get used to the clutch, and at least it feels strong.

I thought the throttle response was a little too toned down, but the last ETC car I drove was an 01 Z06. Are the LS6 CTS-V's better in this regard? I suppose the flywheel isn't doing the car any favors. But I was able to rev match a couple downshifts fairly well, just with more throttle than what I remember my LT1 Camaro requiring.

The power was great, as well. I haven't driven an LS6 car, but I did feel what some people said about the LS2, that it doesn't necessarily want to run right to the rev limiter. It felt more like there was torque everywhere, but also a little less exciting because of it.

The brakes seemed great, as well.

The steering was awesome. I liked the weighting, not overly heavy, but the ratio and overall feel was very intuitive. Just a joy to steer. I am not used to steering feel but I am pretty sure this car has it. Sadly it had stupid RS-A's so I had no trouble reaching their limit in basically any direction.

One surprise was the ride. It had the regular FE4 and I really liked the way GM tuned the ride on this car. I drove to the dealer in my Fleetwood (naturally) and while the spring frequency is obviously way higher, it actually was just as comfortable over bumps. Granted I was in CT, and the roads are better than RI, but I think this will do just fine. Hopefully the RS-A's weren't solely responsible for how pleasant it felt.

Another surprise was how unsmooth the idle was. Since the LS2 was essentially tuned down over the LS6 I figured it would be fairly smooth, but in spite of what seemed to be a surprisingly high idle (800?) it was definitely not smooth as glass. Not a huge deal, just kind of surprising. I presume the LS6 is worse.

I also loved the turning circle, but I guess that comes with a smaller car.

What I need to do now is go drive a G8 GT (since I'll never find a GXP locally) and see if the extra size is worth the trade-off in luxury gizmos. At this point I would like to talk myself into the CTS-V because I like most of the other aspects of the car. Of course this 07 was also priced at like $32k and as I said before, I want to pay like $20k, so I'm also wondering if there won't be any "nice" ones in that price range.

kevm14
06-20-10, 06:06 PM
Speaking of shifting, I thought the stock shifter actually felt nice. It was lighter effort than what I remember from the T56 in my Camaro. Maybe it was just because it was low miles, but I liked it. I don't know why everyone thinks shorter throws but higher/notchy effort is an improvement, but I don't.

The clutch, as I mentioned, did bother me. This will be a daily driver, not a racer, and if I have to concentrate and work to drive smoothly, that will take a lot of enjoyment out of it for me. But finding a car for sale with all that stuff done, but not all used up feeling, is going to be near impossible. And while I do ok with working on my cars, I am not capable of replacing the clutch by myself. Nor do I think much of dropping 2 grand at some "shop."

Baltimore07V
06-20-10, 11:22 PM
Speaking of shifting, I thought the stock shifter actually felt nice. It was lighter effort than what I remember from the T56 in my Camaro. Maybe it was just because it was low miles, but I liked it. I don't know why everyone thinks shorter throws but higher/notchy effort is an improvement, but I don't.

The clutch, as I mentioned, did bother me. This will be a daily driver, not a racer, and if I have to concentrate and work to drive smoothly, that will take a lot of enjoyment out of it for me. But finding a car for sale with all that stuff done, but not all used up feeling, is going to be near impossible. And while I do ok with working on my cars, I am not capable of replacing the clutch by myself. Nor do I think much of dropping 2 grand at some "shop."

LS7 clutch kit, installed should be around 1k. get the kit from luke.

The Guns
06-21-10, 10:44 PM
A virgin V owner's perspective:

I now own an 06 in red that I found on autotrader (it's V+4 days). I flew out 1500 miles away from home (MI to NM) to look at it. I bought it. i was not afraid to travel for the right ride.

I limited myself to 06 and higher. I've heard all sides on the rear diff issue, and decided to steer clear of the older ones. just personal preference. If I ever sell (I don't see this ever happening), it might be an issue for the next owner.

I had been watching ebay and autotrader for several months. I was not serious on buying until I found what I thought was a good price for a good car. I paid 23 for mine with 30K. it was also in red, which was a selling point. there is currently a high mile 06 on ebay for your 20ish price range. I'd personally rather pay a little more for 50K fewer miles. I agree that total miles do not represent how ragged on it has been. I think I got lucky with mine. I also missed out on a couple super nice 07s in the mid 20s (ebay). 06s can be had with your price. you will need patience.

the GXP issue. I have not sat in one, but I'd guess it is the same size as the V. I originally started with the fantasy of buying an 06 GTO, but thought more about my 2 growing children that were going to hate a 2 door car. the GTOs are rock bottom cheap, but I think you get what you pay for. the interior on the GTO is crude. the same quality level interior is in the GXP. they simply look cheap on the inside. if you want one, wait another year or two and prices will be down to 20.

as far as 6 footers fitting in the back: cruising with 3 other dudes doesn't look good in any ride; V or GXP.

good luck

Guns

kevm14
06-22-10, 05:15 PM
Yeah I flew down to NC from CT, for a $3500 car. But the seller was incredibly honest. It seems that one CTS-V to another can feel very different and driving first seems pretty important.

I have pretty much come to the same conclusion you have on the diff issue. The LS6 is awesome (haven't driven one in a CTS-V yet) but the LS2 obviously had plenty of power. I think I would prefer an 06 at this point, but I hope I can find an 05 to test drive just to see. The 07 I drove had zero wheelhop, but also had stupid RS-As, which I think help a ton.

I would pay a little more for a lower mileage, excellent example, sure. I'd even consider a CPO car for $25k, but those are few and far between. Most are around $30k.

From pictures, I'd have to say I disagree about the GXP's interior. I think it actually looks higher quality than the CTS-V, though the car obviously has far fewer features. But strictly on appearance, I think the GXP looks nicer inside. I also disagree on the size thing. The G8 is supposed to substantially bigger than the CTS-V inside. In fact, it is roomier than Chrysler's LX cars inside. Pretty efficient packaging, I'd say, since it doesn't look a whole lot larger than a CTS.

I don't plan to drive around with a car full of dudes often or anything. But while this may sound dumb, if people balk at riding with me because my car is too small, and I end up getting forced into someone else's car, that's a loss. I had a Camaro, been there, done that, would have looked like an idiot driving myself behind everyone else in a bigger car. I know a CTS-V is positively accommodating compared to a Camaro, but just because it has 4 doors doesn't mean people's knees won't be shoved into seat backs, or heads won't be pushed into headliners...it does matter to me.

0AT E03
06-22-10, 11:25 PM
I used to have a '07 Saab 9-3 Aero (smaller than the V I'd assume) and I regularly crammed 4 people into it. People didn't care because they didn't want to drive.

The GXP looks nicer, but it isn't, the looks can be deceiving, it's interior is on par with the Gen 1 V in terms of touch points, it is as you say rather larger like an LX car.

The V is one of the few cars that has power and luxury, in a lower price range.

kevm14
06-22-10, 11:54 PM
The V is one of the few cars that has power and luxury, in a lower price range.

Yup, and here we are. Plus I like GM powertrains...

kevm14
06-29-10, 09:17 PM
Alright, new lead. Need input.

06 CTS-V, 11k, silver with light cashmere interior. Not a CPO car.

Here is the service history:

10/21/2009 398527 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction C2795 - Plate Or Boot, Console Floor Shift - Replace 9,939 MI
10/06/2008 378687 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction J1000 - Pan And/Or Gasket, Oil - Replace 9,454 MI
10/06/2008 378687 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z7901 - 1-DAY COURTESY TRANSPORTATION 9,454 MI
09/11/2008 377500 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z7905 - 5-DAY COURTESY TRANSPORTATION 9,346 MI
09/11/2008 377500 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction D3320 - Air Conditioning Evaporator Core Replacement 9,346 MI
03/13/2008 367393 ZFAT----Field Action Recall V1777 - 07204 - Replace Rear Differential Seal Only 8,745 MI
08/14/2006 266107 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction C2190 - Panel And/Or Fuse Cover, Instrument Panel Side Access - One Or Both - Replace 341 MI

I know I can get it for $26k and change, which seems like a decent deal, but I'd be much happier with $24k, just due to financial reasons. I have not negotiated at all yet.

I have a few concerns still (aside from preferring the black interior), but one thing is I may end up buying it sight unseen if I get the right price. Someone would drive it for me (family actually, who lives near the car). They have already looked at it and said it looks great. It is not at a Caddy dealer, but a Ford dealer. Would this bother anyone? I don't think it will feel beat or ragged, especially given where it is located.

One thing that concerns me is actually the mileage. All of the cars I've looked at the service history for have needed plenty of stuff after 11k and this car literally has a little over a month of its original warranty left. I can almost see a 50k car that's had some of the original problem components replaced being a better buy. And what's with the A/C evaporator?? It was a Florida car, but still. Someone must have taken the entire dash apart to replace that. It could develop rattles, for example.

I am a realist and I really don't expect this car to be flawless from 11k to 100k, again, given what I've seen on other cars. Does this bother anyone else, especially considering it's worth a premium over a higher mileage car? I'd end up having to replace whatever breaks...presumably stuff that some owners had replaced on their cars 2 years ago, when they were still under warranty.

cvettr/cts-v
06-30-10, 10:54 AM
My service history is that short. I have just 10,500 miles on my 06 and I am VERY picky. Just because there is a short list of repairs does not mean the last owner did not care and left things unattended to. I would venture to say many people have had things replaced that really did not need replacing they just heard somone else got that item replaced and they felt they also wanted that item replaced so it would look new. Some people take care of their things and some don't. I was always the the kid with the best condition hot wheels and toys because i used them but did not abuse them. If you have family near there have them drive and video tape the drive and every inch of the car for you and you should be good. Besides you stil have nearly a month of warranty left you said to check it out real good, see if dealer will let you take it to a Caddy dealer and get it certified and warranty if that is a concearn.

kevm14
06-30-10, 02:18 PM
Maybe people do go overboard because the warranty is good and the Caddy dealers are better than a regular dealer. But I was looking at a car with 87k and the service history was a mile long! There was PLENTY after 11k, and it was all under warranty because it ended up being a CPO car. But much of the stuff on that list would have cost me a lot, out of warranty. I get the feeling these cars are a little unreliable, and aside from the diff, it has nothing to do with being 400hp. In fact, I think the CTS and SRX both made Consumer Reports' don't buy list, which is reserved for the particularly unreliable models.

heavymetals
06-30-10, 02:21 PM
maybe people do go overboard because the warranty is good and the caddy dealers are better than a regular dealer. But i was looking at a car with 87k and the service history was a mile long! There was plenty after 11k, and it was all under warranty because it ended up being a cpo car. But much of the stuff on that list would have cost me a lot, out of warranty. I get the feeling these cars are a little unreliable, and aside from the diff, it has nothing to do with being 400hp. In fact, i think the cts and srx both made consumer reports' don't buy list, which is reserved for the particularly unreliable models.

Then don't buy one.

Since you first posted (almost a month ago) this thread, you should have been able to determine if you want to take a chance on a V or not.

Sounds like your just posting reasons not to buy so move on.

Most of the people who bought and were unhappy took the loss and moved on.

repenttokyo
06-30-10, 03:03 PM
Maybe people do go overboard because the warranty is good and the Caddy dealers are better than a regular dealer. But I was looking at a car with 87k and the service history was a mile long! There was PLENTY after 11k, and it was all under warranty because it ended up being a CPO car. But much of the stuff on that list would have cost me a lot, out of warranty. I get the feeling these cars are a little unreliable, and aside from the diff, it has nothing to do with being 400hp. In fact, I think the CTS and SRX both made Consumer Reports' don't buy list, which is reserved for the particularly unreliable models.

I have a high miles car with a very short warranty record and it's in great shape. Only major item that had to be taken care of was a dif in 08 - everything else is normal stuff, motor mounts, etc. Probably less than 20 items total in 6 years of 100k warranty coverage.

I wouldn't read too much into Consumer Reports. What do they know about limited production performance cars? Not much.

Baltimore07V
07-01-10, 10:29 AM
Maybe people do go overboard because the warranty is good and the Caddy dealers are better than a regular dealer. But I was looking at a car with 87k and the service history was a mile long! There was PLENTY after 11k, and it was all under warranty because it ended up being a CPO car. But much of the stuff on that list would have cost me a lot, out of warranty. I get the feeling these cars are a little unreliable, and aside from the diff, it has nothing to do with being 400hp. In fact, I think the CTS and SRX both made Consumer Reports' don't buy list, which is reserved for the particularly unreliable models.

Of course Lexus and Toyota made the best buy list several years in a row, and look at the recalls hitting them. 270,000 engines in Lexus's got recalled today. I don't put much stock in Consumer Reports, simply because State Farm knew about these issues and sent a letter to Toyota about problems in their cars due to reports of sticky gas pedals. Yet somehow these exact same issues never showed up in Consumer Reports testing and customer evaluations.

Like heavy said, this is a car you buy to enjoy because there is a passion to it. If you are not passionate about this car, move on, and buy something else. There is a saying I ran into when I first started lurking on this board:

"Drive it, break it, rebuild it better". Hence why I have a different clutch, motor mounts (blew 2 inside 3k miles), different axles, different shifter then stock. Once I pay the car off, there is a whole list of stuff I need to replace with a better aftermarket option, and one of the first is my radiator (which started to leak around the top seals).

So if you want an ultra reliable car, that you can beat the snot out of and still works. Go buy a Ford Escape, they really do last forever, and cost next to nothing in upkeep. But for the record M3s, M5's, CTS-V's, AMG/AMG Black, Ferrari, Lambo's, Aston Martins, Bentley's, Audit S4/6/8's, Corvette's, Porche. None of those cars ever make Consumer Reports best buy list. And they all cost more then a Ford Escape to maintain.

Perhaps a performance luxury vehicle is not what your looking for. Passionate cars are not something you rationalize. I did not buy my V because it was rational, I bought it because I love it. Maybe something more sensible might be in order.

kevm14
07-02-10, 09:35 AM
The problem is not with how passionate I am about cars, nor what kind of performance I want. The problem is what I get for the price. If I was like everyone else and was already accustomed to shelling out $20k, $30k or even more for an appliance, I'd be thrilled to get something exciting for that money. But the most expensive car I've ever purchased was $4200. I now have the income to buy something nice but because of what I am used to, I am afraid my standards will be far too high. And that would probably apply to ANY car in this price range, appliance or not.

I mean, there are avid VW enthusiasts out there, willing to sacrifice reliability for "feel" or some other "premium" perception. I'm not, I think they are terrible cars. I get the feeling the CTS-V crowd is a little bit like the VW crowd in that respect. Not sure I identify with that. Just something I've noticed....

UnsafeAtAnySpd
07-02-10, 12:41 PM
My first V was maintained better than I could do. One owner 36k miles and a couple of mods. I got it for what at the time was a Good price at $30k. I totalled it a bought a high mileage r-titled replacement V for $18k. While it's not in near as good condition as the first, 30k miles and 17 track days later I'm still happy with my purchase.

Prior to the first V my most expensive car was $3000.

heavymetals
07-02-10, 01:16 PM
If you think you are going to buy a used performance car and not have some issues (that probably can be addressed with money) then you are not being realistic. :nono:

The V is a limited production HOT ROD. :cloud9:

Maybe you would be better off with a Vette (then you can really stress out).

kevm14
07-02-10, 02:54 PM
Someone just got themselves an amazing deal:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-CADILLAC-CTS-V-CTSV-SILVER-11k-SUPER-CLEAN-V8-WOW-/220627869929?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item335e7220e9&autorefresh=true

I couldn't do it and chickened out at the last minute. My dad and his friend actually drove this (they are in Sarasota right now) and said it was mint. That is an outstanding deal. Too bad I couldn't do it...

Baltimore07V
07-02-10, 07:34 PM
Someone just got themselves an amazing deal:

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-CADILLAC-CTS-V-CTSV-SILVER-11k-SUPER-CLEAN-V8-WOW-/220627869929?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item335e7220e9&autorefresh=true

I couldn't do it and chickened out at the last minute. My dad and his friend actually drove this (they are in Sarasota right now) and said it was mint. That is an outstanding deal. Too bad I couldn't do it...

Sounds to me like your not ready to drop 20-25k on a car. Eventually you will see a car and have to have it. Until then get whatever. Either that or buy a V at an insurance auction and fix it. A few people have done that.

PootieTang
07-02-10, 08:23 PM
Someone just got themselves an amazing deal:

I couldn't do it and chickened out at the last minute. My dad and his friend actually drove this (they are in Sarasota right now) and said it was mint. That is an outstanding deal. Too bad I couldn't do it...

if you had second thoughts on that deal, then i don't think the cts-v is the car for you.

repenttokyo
07-02-10, 08:42 PM
I mean, there are avid VW enthusiasts out there, willing to sacrifice reliability for "feel" or some other "premium" perception. I'm not, I think they are terrible cars. I get the feeling the CTS-V crowd is a little bit like the VW crowd in that respect. Not sure I identify with that. Just something I've noticed....

i see absolutely zero correlation here. you've lost me.

an entire brand versus a very limited production automobile...there's no comparison. if you want a ton of power in a car that's fairly big and heavy, you have to pay to play. there are zero exceptions. if you think the cts-v is somehow unique in this respect, then you need to do a reality check on m5boards and see the price of admission of their cars - probably the closest thing stock to stock to ours. the cts-v is mega cheap to maintain by comparison.

what are you expecting? it's not an appliance - it's a car that was meant to be driven hard, and when you drive hard things break. i even break things on my miata at the track, and it's probably the most reliable track car in the universe.

kevm14
07-02-10, 10:14 PM
Sounds to me like your not ready to drop 20-25k on a car. Eventually you will see a car and have to have it. Until then get whatever. Either that or buy a V at an insurance auction and fix it. A few people have done that.

I am up in new england, about to change employers in the next 2 weeks, and I just thought it would be too much hassle to have to fly down and drive it back. That's a long drive. It sounded like such a nice car, though I wasn't sure about the light cashmere. Like I said, normally I wouldn't care, but I am being picky. And if that results in me getting nothing, then so be it.

The other thing is, I only drove that 07 for like 25 minutes. I guess I'm not 100% sure yet. Plus a dealer in Hartford called me back right before this auction was over stating that they were looking for a car for me. That had something to do with me not bidding on this 06, as well as the realization that the car is no bigger than my wife's Malibu....I want a G8 GXP in Cadillac trim, for $25k, used obviously. Even if that did happen it is a long ways out, and even longer to come down so I can afford one second hand. Sucks to be me.

kevm14
07-02-10, 10:16 PM
if you had second thoughts on that deal, then i don't think the cts-v is the car for you.

You may be right about that. Believe me I was beside myself while I watched the auction finish. I'm half mad at myself and half still unsure...

kevm14
07-02-10, 10:24 PM
i see absolutely zero correlation here. you've lost me.


All I am saying is there are cars out there that make me wonder why there is a cult following. Maybe the owners would say "well you just don't understand how good this car is." I'd reply "maybe by design it is, but it's also a POS, and that's not worth it no matter how good it is." I just didn't think the CTS-V was really in the "it's gonna break, deal with it" category. Not sure I'm up for that. And it's not THAT exotic, anyway. I do all my own work, but I'm not sure I will be able to tolerate design flaws and parts breakage (including electronics) on a $25k used car, no matter WHAT its performance pedigree is. It makes me sad that I have to choose. Or maybe I'll end up with one that's really quite solid. But there's no way to tell ahead of time...which is driving me CRAZY. I don't like gambling. And yes I know I am a basket case.

If I can get a closer dealer to find one for me, for fair money, and I have a chance to REALLY test it out/look it over, then I could convince myself to take a chance. That's one reason I haven't bothered to look at any private sale cars. I am trying to avoid putting a private seller through all of my BS at least until I am 100% sure. That's what car dealers are for.

repenttokyo
07-02-10, 10:33 PM
where are you in new england? when i bought my V last month, I had it shipped to boston from florida. less than $800, during the 'high season'.

kevm14
07-02-10, 10:55 PM
This dealer said it would be about $1200 to ship to RI. How did that work out for you? I'd rather pick it up because it's cheaper and because I get to do a final inspection of the car before I fork over my money.

$800 is only a little more expensive than it would have cost me to fly down and drive back.

repenttokyo
07-02-10, 11:13 PM
This dealer said it would be about $1200 to ship to RI. How did that work out for you? I'd rather pick it up because it's cheaper and because I get to do a final inspection of the car before I fork over my money.

$800 is only a little more expensive than it would have cost me to fly down and drive back.

it worked out fine. right now you could easily find transport for $500 to RI, because snowbirds are done moving their cars north.

Baltimore07V
07-03-10, 02:39 AM
All I am saying is there are cars out there that make me wonder why there is a cult following. Maybe the owners would say "well you just don't understand how good this car is." I'd reply "maybe by design it is, but it's also a POS, and that's not worth it no matter how good it is." I just didn't think the CTS-V was really in the "it's gonna break, deal with it" category. Not sure I'm up for that. And it's not THAT exotic, anyway. I do all my own work, but I'm not sure I will be able to tolerate design flaws and parts breakage (including electronics) on a $25k used car, no matter WHAT its performance pedigree is. It makes me sad that I have to choose. Or maybe I'll end up with one that's really quite solid. But there's no way to tell ahead of time...which is driving me CRAZY. I don't like gambling. And yes I know I am a basket case.

If I can get a closer dealer to find one for me, for fair money, and I have a chance to REALLY test it out/look it over, then I could convince myself to take a chance. That's one reason I haven't bothered to look at any private sale cars. I am trying to avoid putting a private seller through all of my BS at least until I am 100% sure. That's what car dealers are for.

Just understand two facts, and you need to acknowledge them.

1.) Luxury Performance is a pay to play market. You want a fast heavy car, that is a smooth a supple ride? Get ready to pony up for replacement parts. More mass = more wear = more replacing parts.

2.) The V is the single least expensive, yet somehow the fastest thing around in lux performance. When you first buy a V get ready to drop 2-4 grand in mods (shifter, mounts, axles, steel braided lines, UUC or other light weight brake rotors, etc) However realize on the same token getting those things for a BMW, Mercedes, etc is almost 2x the cost. Replacement parts cost next to nothing when compared to the rest of the segment. And our O2 sensors are not "wear items".

Honestly, I think that the message a lot of people are trying to send you is be prepared to pay 22-28k for a good 06 or 07, and then be prepared to drop that extra dough to handle the under engineered parts. Once you have done that you will have a monster car on your hands. The passion people exhibt on this board, and on the track is because of just that. I have yet to see a review where someone bad mouthed the V on the track. They all have respect for these monsters......


The question is: Are you ready to own one based on the above facts? You know the costs. But are you ready?

Simple yes or no. Its up to you.

kevm14
07-03-10, 08:10 AM
When you combine those facts with the overall size of the car, I end up at a definite maybe. I need to look at another one.

Aurora40
07-03-10, 09:41 AM
When you combine those facts with the overall size of the car, I end up at a definite maybe. I need to look at another one.
You mentioned size a couple of times. What do you mean, you want a car that is larger inside? Or you mean the car is huge? I don't think the G8 is much bigger inside, but i could be wrong. If you want bigger, have you looked at the STS-V? They are crazy cheap compared to what they cost new.

You think the V is a crap-mobile, and costs a fortune. What other cars are you looking at that are comparable, but cheaper to own? You think a $25k used car should be perfect simply because you think $25k is a lot. What other car for similar money is perfect?

Also, that eBay deal, holy crap! That seems like a smoking deal to me!

kevm14
07-03-10, 10:12 AM
You mentioned size a couple of times. What do you mean, you want a car that is larger inside?

Yes. I am used to and prefer large cars.


I don't think the G8 is much bigger inside, but i could be wrong. If you want bigger, have you looked at the STS-V? They are crazy cheap compared to what they cost new.

G8 is substantially bigger inside. It's funny, I don't think anyone here has ever really looked at one. I assumed it was mid-size until I looked up the specs. I'll look at STS-V prices but at the moment I have a hard price cutoff at about $25k.


You think the V is a crap-mobile, and costs a fortune. What other cars are you looking at that are comparable, but cheaper to own? You think a $25k used car should be perfect simply because you think $25k is a lot. What other car for similar money is perfect?

I don't think it's a crap mobile but I am used to 1, 2, 3 or 4 thousand dollar cars. I don't buy Honda Accords, but they're nothing that would excite anyone here. B and D-bodies, and I had an F-body a few years ago. I also tend to keep cars for longer than other people seem to. So where a normal person might be looking for something else 2 years down the road, I try to buy for the long haul, meaning I am much more critical.

There really are very few cars that play in this range. Other than the CTS-V, it would be a G8 GXP M6 (of which they made approximately 900, and there is no $25k used GXP right now), or the 300C SRT-8 (plenty, but I don't really do Mopars). That's about it. The rest is probably German stuff that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. Or vaporware, like some LWB Caprice SS in a few years.


Also, that eBay deal, holy crap! That seems like a smoking deal to me!

That's what the car was worth at that moment on eBay. If you search completed listings, every single CTS-V on eBay Motors didn't sell. Either no bids (too high starting bid) or reserve not met. I expected a ~$27k reserve on this, and it wouldn't have sold, just like all the others. The dealer has my number and if the buyer falls through, I wouldn't be surprised to get a call. I have to think about what to do. Given the feedback here, I'd be stupid not to buy at $24k. I acknowledge that.

kevm14
07-03-10, 10:42 AM
Is the STS-V auto only? Seems to be. No autos. Also it's really not much bigger.

Aurora40
07-03-10, 11:12 AM
There really are very few cars that play in this range. Other than the CTS-V, it would be a G8 GXP M6 (of which they made approximately 900, and there is no $25k used GXP right now), or the 300C SRT-8 (plenty, but I don't really do Mopars). That's about it. The rest is probably German stuff that I wouldn't touch with a 10 foot pole. Or vaporware, like some LWB Caprice SS in a few years.
What are they like in terms of maintenance costs? I'd guess they are comparable, and don't perform quite as well. But what has your research indicated?

I will have to check out a G8, I have not been in one but they don't look much bigger. I've also thought about a G8 GT or GXP. The Australia thing aside, a GT is similar in price to a V, but not nearly as fast. A GXP is much more expensive, and has little things I dislike, like the non-nav LCD screen, the puny rear brakes, and the curb weight. An '06-07 V still under warranty seems like more car than an '09 GXP, at least to me. And it costs about $10k less.

If you are worried about the things that go wrong from 11k miles to 100k miles, have you thought about buying one that's already gone through that? A car like this:
http://washingtondc.craigslist.org/nva/ctd/1817159746.html and you'd have almost $10k aside to fix issues that might crop up.

kevm14
07-07-10, 05:03 PM
Onto another one now.

Look at this vehicle history:


Event date Location Odometer reading Data Source Details
06/12/2006 HENDERSON, NV
Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL
06/29/2006 NV
16
Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Title #:NV001071925-3)(Leased Vehicle)(Lien Reported)
05/31/2007 DESERT SOUTHWEST REGION
15,106
Auto Auction REPORTED AT AUTO AUCTION AS MANUFACTURER VEHICLE
06/30/2007 SANDY, UT
Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL(Leased Vehicle)
07/20/2007 UT
Motor Vehicle Dept. TITLE (Title #:UT7510075)
07/20/2007 UT
Motor Vehicle Dept. EXCLUDED/EXEMPT
06/30/2008 SANDY, UT
Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL(Leased Vehicle)
06/30/2009 SANDY, UT
Motor Vehicle Dept. REGISTRATION EVENT/RENEWAL(Leased Vehicle)
EXCLUDED/EXEMPT


I'm not trying to talk myself out of this car, but one scenario I see is a lease, then a manufacturer buy-back, then auction, then re-lease? Does that make any sense to anyone? Is this a red flag?

repenttokyo
07-07-10, 05:04 PM
do you have the warranty history?

kevm14
07-07-10, 05:06 PM
I am waiting for it at the moment. Maybe it would shed some light. Given a 12k a year average mileage on this car, it was probably someone's daily driver. But the 2 state 2 lease thing is a little odd. It's like a 1 year lease followed by a 2 year lease of...a used vehicle??

kevm14
07-08-10, 03:07 PM
I don't have the electronic VIS yet but I did get a verbal summary over the phone. This car has a L-O-N-G history. All the usual suspects PLUS a diff (on an 06), and some stuff that just seems kind of ridiculous, including water pump, power steering, headliner, engine wiring harness, etc...car seems like it was a basket case from birth until 50k. I'll post the electronic history when I have it.

Adding in sight unseen seems like it may be too big of a leap. Not sure.

repenttokyo
07-08-10, 04:53 PM
if the list is that long, i would move on.

kevm14
07-08-10, 05:02 PM
It looks so good though. Oh well. I guess maybe I should move on.

repenttokyo
07-08-10, 05:04 PM
my car has serious mileage, and a very short warranty history, even though it was covered up to 100k. I have a diff replacement and a couple of minor things - I would view any diff replacement post 2007 as a big positive when shopping for one of these cars.

kevm14
07-08-10, 05:07 PM
Well the diff was replaced in April 08 so that would make it a 3rd gen diff, right? That is a plus, yes.

kevm14
07-10-10, 01:40 PM
Possibly working a deal on an 07 with 20k at a Cadillac dealer. Not CPO, but the 07 has some inherent warranty advantages and the bumper to bumper has another 6 months.

If they agree to my offer, what are some smart contingencies to make? Things like the nav CD, or possibly the latest CD/firmware before I buy the car. Is there anything else that would make sense for me to "demand" before buying? This is the black one I drove last month, btw. They are still sitting on the car...

Baltimore07V
07-10-10, 03:04 PM
Possibly working a deal on an 07 with 20k at a Cadillac dealer. Not CPO, but the 07 has some inherent warranty advantages and the bumper to bumper has another 6 months.

If they agree to my offer, what are some smart contingencies to make? Things like the nav CD, or possibly the latest CD/firmware before I buy the car. Is there anything else that would make sense for me to "demand" before buying? This is the black one I drove last month, btw. They are still sitting on the car...

Nav CD. and get the GMPP (the GM 100k warranty). Make sure it has the manual as well. Make sure the pinion seal recall, and vent tube TSV was done. Check the tires for excessive wear, both front and back. Also check the brakes too. Make sure the rear rotors aren' warped to hell. Warped rear rotors,excessive tire wear would give you a indication if the last owner was doing burn outs.

Clean title, 100k warranty, Nav CD. Your ready to rock.

kevm14
07-10-10, 03:16 PM
The car is in good shape except for a minor idle vibe, which may very well be normal. This is the only one I drove and the service history is incredibly short.


08/13/2009 023842 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction R4490 - Remote Control Door Lock Transmitter Replacement 17,218 MI
09/20/2008 017484 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction R4490 - Remote Control Door Lock Transmitter Replacement 8,619 MI
04/09/2008 014508 ZFAT----Field Action Recall V1777 - 07204 - Replace Rear Differential Seal Only 4,743 MI
10/24/2006 A37447 ZPDI----Pre-Delivery Inspection Z7000 - Pre-Delivery Inspection - Base Time 0 MI

They can certify it (assuming that's what you are talking about) for an additional $1500. Is there any other kind of GM extended warranty available?

It already has the 100k powertrain warranty, which should cover some of the trouble areas, like engine mounts, diff, diff bushing, etc.

Aurora40
07-10-10, 06:13 PM
They can certify it (assuming that's what you are talking about) for an additional $1500. Is there any other kind of GM extended warranty available?

http://www.gmprotectionplan.com/majorguard.html

It's going to allow a longer time-frame than a CPO warranty. The CPO is from 0 miles and the in-service date. So it's usually a 2 year extension, since the factory warranty is 4 years.

I believe the Major Guard warranty is cheaper on '07+ cars since the powertrain is already covered. I paid $1,800 for a 4yr/32k miles GMPP warranty with a $50 deductible. The years and miles are from when you buy the warranty, not from 0 miles like the CPO. I figure I probably won't have that much trouble with the car, but I'd rather fix the cost vs take the risk. I'm not familiar enough with these cars to know what long term ownership is like.

Edit: If my car were an '07 it would be ~$840 for the same timeframe and a $0 deductible. Obviously most of the risk/cost is in the powertrain. So with an '07 you are looking at pretty affordable extended warranty options, or just going without one and having only the powertrain covered.

I really didn't see any/many low mile '07s when I was looking. I've also noticed lease returns tend to be in the 20-30k mile range. Probably because you may as well drive and enjoy it, you wouldn't squirrel away a car you were leasing.

kevm14
07-10-10, 06:47 PM
Ah. I assume buying that during my bumper to bumper or at least the powertrain will decrease my cost. I have a few quotes coming via e-mail. This way I'll know what prices are if this comes up. Hopefully they call me back monday, as we are very close to agreeing on a price (for the car). I'll trade my Fleetwood in, because in this rare circumstance, it's worth more in trade than actual private sale transaction dollars.

mcline86
07-10-10, 06:50 PM
how are you guys getting the service history reports on these things?

repenttokyo
07-10-10, 06:52 PM
how are you guys getting the service history reports on these things?

from cadillac dealers. call the service department with the vin.

Aurora40
07-10-10, 07:01 PM
Ah. I assume buying that during my bumper to bumper or at least the powertrain will decrease my cost.
You can't buy it once you are out of the bumper-to-bumper. The car has to be under warranty to extend it. Otherwise you could just wait until stuff breaks.

kevm14
07-10-10, 07:01 PM
Other than diff vent, what TSBs should this 07 have? I can use these in my final negotiations.

kevm14
07-10-10, 07:02 PM
You can't buy it once you are out of the bumper-to-bumper. The car has to be under warranty to extend it. Otherwise you could just wait until stuff breaks.

Oh, I figured they still sold it, but just at an increased cost. I would have 6 months to decide, in any case.

mcline86
07-11-10, 04:06 PM
are the car fax reports some of these autotrader CTS-v's the same history report u get from GM? also some quick quesitons.
1.) Are the rear diffs on the 06 and 07's have the same problems as the 04 05's? i see alot of these car far's without any differential stuff mentioned.
2.) Some of these are cars that were leased for 3 years and then being sold. is there any ups/downs to buying a leased CTS-V?
3.) Seeing on the history report it had 2 new tires mounted and balanced a year after purchase, probly means there was alot of burnouts going on.....?


one last thing "certified pre owned" what does that exactly mean?

thanks guys

Dan_Gurney
07-11-10, 05:00 PM
no, the GM report gives you all the warranty work that was done, carfax looks more at title issues, accidents, new owners and such. i would get both, the GM report is free, so that's an easy one, and carfax is cheap enough to save some troubles.

Dan_Gurney
07-11-10, 05:05 PM
Also, the tires could have been burnouts, or simply a bad tire, one that would not balance or similar. They would usually replace two tires, to keep that axles with the same diameter tires. (you always assume the worst when buying a used car though... You really have to look at the condition of the car now, and see what that tells you, if "abused" properly, it should last a long time...

Heck I installing axles as we speak to help wear out some tires...

kevm14
07-12-10, 09:38 AM
Ok I have the VIS on that 06 I was looking at before this 07 thing started happening. This is the one that I declared a POS. I don't think it was a flood car looking at the dates of parts replacement, but I do question some of the things on this list. The car has 50k now. And I wouldn't be able to drive it before buying it.


03/30/2010 657318 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction C6871 - Driver Seat Cushion Cover Replacement 49,786 MI
03/30/2010 657318 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction D0362 - Heater and Air Conditioning Control Replacement 49,786 MI
11/02/2009 646152 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction B4301 - Handle And Remote Control, Front Door Lock - Left - R&R Or Replace 47,588 MI
11/02/2009 646152 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction B4261 - Front Side Door Lock Replacement - Left Side 47,588 MI
11/02/2009 646152 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction C2860 - Front Floor Console Replacement 47,588 MI
11/02/2009 646152 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z5001 - VIP FREIGHT/POSTAGE REIMBURESEMENT 47,588 MI
11/02/2009 646152 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction C9040 - Driver or Passenger Seat Retractor Side Belt Replacement 47,588 MI
11/02/2009 646152 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction N0110 - Battery Replacement 47,588 MI
08/06/2009 639234 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction J3100 - Radiator Replacement 42,640 MI
08/06/2009 639234 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z5001 - VIP FREIGHT/POSTAGE REIMBURESEMENT 42,640 MI
01/30/2009 624241 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction E7020 - Steering Wheel Replacement 35,326 MI
01/12/2009 622756 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction E9050 - Power Steering Pump Replacement 34,509 MI
01/12/2009 622756 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z7902 - 2-DAY COURTESY TRANSPORTATION 34,509 MI
01/12/2009 622756 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z5001 - VIP FREIGHT/POSTAGE REIMBURESEMENT 34,509 MI
09/22/2008 613703 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction C8870 - Inflatable Restraint Passenger Seat Suppression Module Replacement 32,167 MI
09/11/2008 612923 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction R2975 - Theft Deterrent Module Replacement 31,834 MI
09/11/2008 612923 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction C3128 - Headlining Trim Panel Replacement 31,834 MI
09/11/2008 612923 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z7901 - 1-DAY COURTESY TRANSPORTATION 31,834 MI
09/11/2008 612923 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z5001 - VIP FREIGHT/POSTAGE REIMBURESEMENT 31,834 MI
07/16/2008 607905 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction C2740 - Door And/Or Pad, Console Compartment - R&R Or Replace 29,861 MI
07/16/2008 607905 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z7901 - 1-DAY COURTESY TRANSPORTATION 29,861 MI
04/07/2008 599186 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z7903 - 3-DAY COURTESY TRANSPORTATION 24,691 MI
04/07/2008 599186 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction J9991 - Customer Concern Not Duplicated - Engine Mechanical 24,691 MI
04/07/2008 599186 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction F2143 - Differential Carrier Assembly Replacement 24,691 MI
04/07/2008 599186 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z5001 - VIP FREIGHT/POSTAGE REIMBURESEMENT 24,691 MI
04/07/2008 599186 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction D1443 - Deflector, Air (Outlet Vent) - Left Center - Replace 24,691 MI
04/02/2008 598802 ZFAT----Field Action Recall V1777 - 07204 - Replace Rear Differential Seal Only 24,623 MI
04/02/2008 598802 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction J4206 - Wires And/Or Boots, Spark Plug - One - Replace 24,623 MI
04/02/2008 598802 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction C3900 - Strap (Handle) And/Or Escutcheon, Assist - Right - Rear - R&R Or Replace 24,623 MI
09/20/2007 581092 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction F2023 - Seal, Pinion Shaft Oil - Rear Differential - Replace 19,280 MI
09/20/2007 581092 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction F2154 - Differential Carrier Bushing Replacement 19,280 MI
09/20/2007 581092 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z7901 - 1-DAY COURTESY TRANSPORTATION 19,280 MI
09/20/2007 581092 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction J1501 - Engine Front Mount Replacement - Left Side 19,280 MI
08/15/2007 577682 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction L2300 - Converter, Oxidation Catalytic - Replace 17,676 MI
08/15/2007 577682 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z5001 - VIP FREIGHT/POSTAGE REIMBURESEMENT 17,676 MI
07/26/2007 571772 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction R0941 - Speaker, Radio - I/P Or Windshield Pillar - Left - Replace 15,874 MI
07/26/2007 571772 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction J6360 - Powertrain Control Module Replacement 15,874 MI
07/26/2007 571772 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction C3900 - Strap (Handle) And/Or Escutcheon, Assist - Right - Rear - R&R Or Replace 15,874 MI
07/26/2007 571772 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z7903 - 3-DAY COURTESY TRANSPORTATION 15,874 MI
07/25/2007 575700 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction N6970 - Harness, Wiring - Engine Complete - Replace 17,427 MI
07/25/2007 575700 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z7903 - 3-DAY COURTESY TRANSPORTATION 17,427 MI
06/15/2007 571772 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction R0754 - RADIO RECEIVER-RETURN TO AC/DELCO ESC 15,874 MI
05/02/2007 224528 ZSCT----Service Contracts M0017 - Lube, Oil And Filter 14,933 MI
03/14/2007 221357 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction J3480 - Water Pump Replacement 13,095 MI
03/14/2007 221357 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction J5020 - Duct And/Or Hose, Outside Air - Replace 13,095 MI
01/22/2007 217625 ZSCT----Service Contracts M0017 - Lube, Oil And Filter 9,965 MI
01/22/2007 217625 ZSCT----Service Contracts M0021 - Maintenance Service - Tire Rotation 9,965 MI
12/20/2006 215432 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction E0431 - Goodyear/Dunlop Tire Replacement 7,660 MI
10/25/2006 210837 ZSCT----Service Contracts M0017 - Lube, Oil And Filter 4,943 MI
03/17/2006 A96700 ZPDI----Pre-Delivery Inspection Z7000 - Pre-Delivery Inspection - Base Time 0 MI

your maker
07-12-10, 11:11 AM
i would not get it to much has been tampered with

kevm14
07-12-10, 11:27 AM
Cosmetically it looks great, though. And someone will buy, since they won't have access to VIS.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/2006-CADILLAC-CTSV-6SPEED-SUNROOF-NAVIGATION-XENONS-49K-/190414818937?cmd=ViewItem&pt=US_Cars_Trucks&hash=item2c559b8e79

mcline86
07-12-10, 05:30 PM
heres what i found on the 2007 CTS-V with 42k miles in MA on autotrader. this is the history report what do you guys think? seemed like alot to me but not alot next to the guy that just posted his above me lol

01/13/2009 348800 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z7901 - 1-DAY COURTESY TRANSPORTATION 23,315 MI
01/09/2009 021564 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z2085 - ROADSIDE SERVICE (PREMIUM) 23,227 MI
01/09/2009 348753 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z8014 - ROADSIDE SERVICE (BATTERY/JUMP START) 23,227 MI
04/29/2008 329805 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z7901 - 1-DAY COURTESY TRANSPORTATION 15,011 MI
04/29/2008 329805 ZFAT----Field Action Recall V1777 - 07204 - Replace Rear Differential Seal Only 15,011 MI
02/18/2008 323608 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z2090 - Cadillac Customer Commitment - Second visit or "first scheduled maintenance" program 11,260 MI
10/26/2007 313971 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z5001 - VIP FREIGHT/POSTAGE REIMBURESEMENT 7,909 MI
10/26/2007 313971 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction J9992 - Customer Concern Not Duplicated - Engine Controls and Fuel 7,909 MI 10/26/2007 313971 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction E9740 - Steering Gear Replacement 7,909 MI
10/26/2007 313971 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction E9050 - Power Steering Pump Replacement 7,909 MI
10/26/2007 313971 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction T2020 - Towing 7,909 MI
10/26/2007 313971 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction E8622 - Hoses, Power Steering Hydraulic - Pressure - Replace 7,909 MI
10/26/2007 313971 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z7907 - COURTESY TRANSPORTATION - PARTS NOT AVAILABLE 7,909 MI
10/25/2007 Q42630 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z2080 - ROADSIDE SERVICE (TOWING) 7,909 MI
10/25/2007 Q42630 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z2080 - ROADSIDE SERVICE (TOWING) 7,909 MI
04/09/2007 016673 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z8013 - ROADSIDE SERVICE (FUEL DELIVERY) 673 MI
04/06/2007 L40131 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z2085 - ROADSIDE SERVICE (PREMIUM) 500 MI
04/06/2007 L40131 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z2085 - ROADSIDE SERVICE (PREMIUM) 500 MI
02/15/2007 A69196 ZPDI----Pre-Delivery Inspection Z7000 - Pre-Delivery Inspection - Base Time 0 MI

kevm14
07-12-10, 09:12 PM
That isn't too bad. But I swear, almost every one of these cars is a POS...unbelievable!

repenttokyo
07-12-10, 09:16 PM
That isn't too bad. But I swear, almost every one of these cars is a POS...unbelievable!

here's my 118,000 mile car's history = hardly a POS:

kevm14
07-12-10, 09:37 PM
I said almost. The people with good ones know who they are. And maybe they aren't the ones selling, which is why everything I find has a fairly scary service history.

No calls on this 07 I was looking at. Maybe they didn't want to come down to my price and just figured they'd leave me hanging. This process is tiresome and I've still only driven this one car. I was at a local Caddy dealer today getting some touchup paint for my Fleetwood (gotta max out that trade-in value, right?) and asked a salesman if he had any 1st gen CTS-Vs. Nope but he took my info. Maybe that will pan out. It's only 15 minutes from my house.

repenttokyo
07-12-10, 09:38 PM
I said almost. The people with good ones know who they are. And maybe they aren't the ones selling, which is why everything I find has a fairly scary service history.

maybe, but I bought my car last month, which is pretty recent.

mcline86
07-12-10, 09:53 PM
I'd like to not look at everyone of these cars as a POS seing im trying to get one and love them. i just think its a matter of finding one that wasnt a freak show from the birth from GM. I havnt seen any pics of this one, but the list doesnt seem to bad. all the power steering was replaced and the rear axle seal? doesnt seem to bad to me..... now well see how it feels and drives and what it looks like when i check it out on saturday.


i guess you could look at it this way. these dumb little issues that u can get fixed under warranty sure evens out with a good strong motor it comes with. and it beats a fords motor spark plugs welding themselves in there and their cam phasers wearing out and their calipars sticking.

kevm14
07-15-10, 10:39 AM
Another 07 that I might take a look at. This one is CPO.


05/28/2010 205702 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction J1507 - Mount, Engine - Front - Both - Replace 38,479 MI
01/26/2010 778197 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z2083 - ROADSIDE SERVICE (BATTERY/JUMP START) 34,000 MI
01/26/2010 778198 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z2080 - ROADSIDE SERVICE (TOWING) 34,000 MI
01/26/2010 2341 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction J4640 - Starter Replacement 37,756 MI
10/23/2009 107934 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction N0110 - Battery Replacement 37,120 MI
05/28/2009 104772 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction R0774 - NAVIGATION RADIO RECEIVER-RETURN TO AC/DELCO ESC 34,920 MI
05/28/2009 104772 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction R0760 - Radio, Remove and Replace 34,920 MI
05/28/2009 104772 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction N2360 - Switch - Clutch Start - Replace 34,920 MI
05/28/2009 104772 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z7901 - 1-DAY COURTESY TRANSPORTATION 34,920 MI
08/29/2008 098373 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction Z5001 - VIP FREIGHT/POSTAGE REIMBURESEMENT 29,916 MI
08/29/2008 098373 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction R0755 - RADIO RECEIVER-RETURN TO AC/DELCO ESC-INCOMPLETE EXCHANGE 29,916 MI
08/28/2008 098373 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction N1755 - Hazard Lamp and Turn Signal Lamp Flasher Replacement 29,916 MI
06/23/2008 096652 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction R4230 - Sensor, Twilight Sentinel - Replace 26,608 MI
06/16/2008 096497 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction J9993 - Customer Concern Not Duplicated - Engine Electrical 26,015 MI
02/29/2008 093721 ZREG----Regular Vehicle Transaction K9992 - Customer Concern Not Duplicated - Manual Transmission 10,123 MI
02/29/2008 093721 ZFAT----Field Action Recall V1777 - 07204 - Replace Rear Differential Seal Only 10,123 MI
05/18/2006 A02673 ZPDI----Pre-Delivery Inspection Z7000 - Pre-Delivery Inspection - Base Time 0 MI

CadzillaTN
07-15-10, 05:50 PM
calling one (or any) of these cars a POS wont get you much feedback from people who actually know enough to provide you with an informed opinion.

random repairs are actually good news, not bad... you wont find one without some kind of 'repair' history. you're better off tracking down and interviewing the original owner(s) if abuse is your fear.. due diligence includes more than just carfax and vir.

the longer that list, the better. that usually means someone else took the time to complain and resolve little things YOU wont have to down the road...

pick a nice one and buy it or join the cattle line at the honda dealership :)

mcline86
07-15-10, 06:07 PM
wouldnt you think that finding one with a short list may just be that it didnt have as many issues from the factory as some of these that have basically a book to read on a history report?

i mean i found an 07 with 21k miles im going to check out in my area, clean carfax and the GM history report is only the rear diff seal, and the power door lock module was replaced twice. u see that as a bad buy?

kevm14
07-15-10, 07:20 PM
I see you are in CT.

I looked at that car and was trying to deal on it...

I also drove it.

mcline86
07-15-10, 07:46 PM
I see you are in CT.

I looked at that car and was trying to deal on it...

I also drove it.

yeah, how was the car?

kevm14
07-15-10, 08:03 PM
It was the first CTS-V I drove but I liked it overall. Like I said, we couldn't seem to agree on a price and now they won't call me back.

CadzillaTN
07-15-10, 10:09 PM
wouldnt you think that finding one with a short list may just be that it didnt have as many issues from the factory as some of these that have basically a book to read on a history report?

i mean i found an 07 with 21k miles im going to check out in my area, clean carfax and the GM history report is only the rear diff seal, and the power door lock module was replaced twice. u see that as a bad buy?

in general, maybe but i dont think so in the V's case. mine reads like a book but 60% of it could have been easily tolerated by someone who wasn't as picky and didn't make the most of their warranty.

car sounds nice. how much etc? when I bought mine, a nice 07 with 21k miles would easily be in the mid 40s...keep in mind... its the same car right this minute, only 3 years later.

unless it's been at the bottom of a pond its probably a keeper...just check it out, get the best price you can, and write a check before someone else gets it. like every other car, theres a list of parts that have been identified as historically prone to failure on the V. check those out first.
and,
normally i would tell people to never buy a car from a dealer. in the Vs case it can work in your favor-GM dealers can include or offer a warranty regardless of age or mileage. with private sellers, there may not be any transferable warranty time left. for some this can be important, especially for a "factory" level warranty (which this car probably still has +++)

kevm14
07-15-10, 10:19 PM
That car is at a Cadillac dealer in Hartford, CT. They want like $32k and didn't budge enough. I personally wasn't willing to spend that much and I think it will very quickly approach the resale of the other years. But I am willing to spend more for some warranty (but not over $30k) which is why I've been looking at 07s for the last week, specifically.

52many
07-15-10, 11:10 PM
if you had second thoughts on that deal, then i don't think the cts-v is the car for you.

You must answer this question: IS THE JUICE WORTH THE SQUEEZE? :thepan:
(credit Autoextremist GTO review)

Baltimore07V
07-16-10, 11:29 AM
I said almost. The people with good ones know who they are. And maybe they aren't the ones selling, which is why everything I find has a fairly scary service history.



Welcome to buying a rare car. The good ones will ask a price and not budge, and the bad ones will be out there. There are tons of stories on this board of people tracking down the perfect V. Some have searched for months to find one. Others have flown to other states to get theirs. I got lucky. I found one local to me, at a great price, with great service history. Paid $32k over a year ago for my '07 and got my 100k warranty with it. Interestingly enough, their was an '05 next to it for $25k which had electrical issues abound over its history, and it was getting scoped out by a buyer while I was getting mine.

I will tell you this. Good luck. Your trying to buy a used car, with no issues with a clean history, at below market price. Unless you find a motivated seller private party, you won't get that (or they may just be lieing to you about the condition of the car). And there is no dealership that would do that, as they have to stand behind what they sell.

kevm14
07-16-10, 01:09 PM
Well let me ask you this. Based on your data point there, what is a fair price, today, for a CPO 07 with 42k 1 year later?

The problem is I've given myself a hard cap of $25k w/ trade and if it doesn't happen, I'll have to wait or find the low 20s car I wanted in the first place.

Baltimore07V
07-16-10, 05:16 PM
Well let me ask you this. Based on your data point there, what is a fair price, today, for a CPO 07 with 42k 1 year later?

The problem is I've given myself a hard cap of $25k w/ trade and if it doesn't happen, I'll have to wait or find the low 20s car I wanted in the first place.

Since an 07 would still be under warranty most likely, certified from a dealership I would say you would spend 28k-33k. Depending on your location in the US.

Private party you could probably pick up an 07 as described above for $25k (motivated seller) to $29k.

I think that the success of the new V2's have done something for the price of the V1's personally. But I don't have any data to prove that. I do know that the V2's seem to be holding their price as well. But those last statements are opinions based on casual observation.

kevm14
07-16-10, 09:38 PM
I just got back from looking at another 07. Again, no deal. We were $2k apart and neither of us would budge. They wanted $27k with trade and my max was $25k. That puts the car at $29k except we had already removed certification ($1200) and new tires since they were going to put some Bridgestone all season EMTs on for $1100. That also means they came down less than a grand off their listed price online, which I think is ridiculous. So imo that is too high. But I think you are right, values have almost gone up over the past months. I wish I was ready to buy last year.

Baltimore07V
07-17-10, 11:07 AM
I just got back from looking at another 07. Again, no deal. We were $2k apart and neither of us would budge. They wanted $27k with trade and my max was $25k. That puts the car at $29k except we had already removed certification ($1200) and new tires since they were going to put some Bridgestone all season EMTs on for $1100. That also means they came down less than a grand off their listed price online, which I think is ridiculous. So imo that is too high. But I think you are right, values have almost gone up over the past months. I wish I was ready to buy last year.

Look at it this way. The main competitor to the V is the M5. Whats an 07 M5 go certified from a dealership? People are realizing that the V is a steal for a performance sedan. Fit and finish isn't as great, but the ability to gain massive power is there for less money (try doing a cam swap on an M5), and the V's are cheaper to maintain over the years. Also compare to an AMG or Performance Audi? Because they all compare well on the track.

Economy is doing a bit better these days, then last year, so less motivated sellers. If the dealership is willing to do $27k+trade with the $1200 cerfication on an 07V I would tell you that your getting a good deal.

Now its up to you to decide if you want to spend the money to get a V.

Option #2, spend $18-23k and get an 04-05V and have money for repairs/mods as needed.

Just remember as you look for your perfect car. Cars are machines, machines break. Whether its brand new with 3 miles off the lot, or ten years old with 120k miles. Machines can and will break. Thats why I always have money on hand for repairs.

kevm14
07-17-10, 03:39 PM
Economy is doing a bit better these days, then last year, so less motivated sellers. If the dealership is willing to do $27k+trade with the $1200 cerfication on an 07V I would tell you that your getting a good deal.


It was $27k with trade with NO certification or new tires.

However I called that dealer with whom I was working on the first one I drove, the 07 with 21k. I thought he wasn't returning my calls. Turns out he was out half of last week because of a family emergency and just got my message yesterday. And, here's a shocker: while he was out, the dealership wholesaled the car, since it was on the lot for 40 days or whatever their rule is. That's a real bummer because I may have missed out on a good deal.

Baltimore07V
07-17-10, 06:51 PM
It was $27k with trade with NO certification or new tires.

However I called that dealer with whom I was working on the first one I drove, the 07 with 21k. I thought he wasn't returning my calls. Turns out he was out half of last week because of a family emergency and just got my message yesterday. And, here's a shocker: while he was out, the dealership wholesaled the car, since it was on the lot for 40 days or whatever their rule is. That's a real bummer because I may have missed out on a good deal.

See if you can find out where it went. might be able to get a deal. But thats deal number 2 that you passed on....

Just saying if you want it, buy it. If you don't, don't.

kevm14
07-17-10, 07:13 PM
Well if he was in he theoretically would have called me if he knew they were going to turn over the car like that. They may or may not have taken my offer. Each time I drive one, I don't have that "oh man I just HAVE to get this car home, it's gonna be the best thing ever" feeling. Which is why I am willing to walk away, at least for now. The feeling I have, especially on this second one, is "wow, this really is on the small side." I think I'm just going to have to push through that and force myself into it. Then again I got rid of my 95 Z28 because I didn't see the point to the car. Fortunately, the CTS-V is far better and more useful than the Camaro. Plus it looks 100x better. But the Camaro cost me $4200 and I sold it for more than that. That's unlikely with the CTS-V, so that aspect is weighing on me. I think you know that anyway...

So now this dealer in CT is going to keep his eye out for a car a little more reasonably priced (maybe an 06?) and see if we can't make a deal. But without a warranty, I don't really see any benefits to buying a car at a dealer, except for the trade-in convenience and the vehicle registration convenience.

repenttokyo
07-17-10, 08:46 PM
It really seems like this isn't the car for you.

mcline86
07-17-10, 09:11 PM
Bought my 07 cts-v 41k miles CPO warranty till 2013 or 100k. they asked 32 i got it for 29k. traded my 06 F150 got it payed off and got the V down to 25 and then all said and done financed 26k. LOVE this car cant wait to pick it up monday!

kevm14
07-17-10, 09:30 PM
I test drove that car yesterday! Baker Caddy in Leominster?

I found the shifter a bit loose.

Also, they wanted to do $27k with trade, but without certification or new tires.

That works out to $29k for the car.

Did you get it for $29k WITH certification and new tires or just as-is? They hadn't certified it yet when I drove it.

Oh I see you had a trade. They probably just boned you on it to make up the difference.

mcline86
07-17-10, 09:45 PM
lol nah i actually got book value on my truck (and it even has body damage from an accident). but i also threw down 2 G's. and yes i got the certification and i gave them a list of things to take care of for me, clutch, clutch fluid, there was some oil shit in the rear of the tires got them checkin that out and the rearend n fixing any issues. plus getting the NAV updated. i told them forget about the tires i can get them from someone else for much cheaper.

it worked out nice my plan was to finance 25k and i financed 26k and got the CPO warranty, so that works for me.

kevm14
07-17-10, 10:17 PM
I don't suppose you dealt with Ray?

mcline86
07-17-10, 10:39 PM
Nope. by the way i talked to that same guy with the one in CT with 21k miles. they told me someone was in there that day (thursday) and test drove it and put a down payment on it. and then said they would contact me if the deal didnt go through. and then were like were gunna keep an eye out for a V for you......so idk if i would trust their word.

kevm14
07-17-10, 10:44 PM
I talked to Don at Valenti.

You know for a fact he was there Thursday?

I know they don't assign 1 salesman per car so perhaps it was another salesman who told you that, but maybe knew something about the wholesale. I can see why he wouldn't want to tell you that before the deal was completely finalized.

MIAdragon
07-17-10, 10:55 PM
Nope. by the way i talked to that same guy with the one in CT with 21k miles. they told me someone was in there that day (thursday) and test drove it and put a down payment on it. and then said they would contact me if the deal didnt go through. and then were like were gunna keep an eye out for a V for you......so idk if i would trust their word.

I talked to them about that same car and got the same response "some one was on his way down to look at it, Ill call you if it fall through" then nothing. Must not want to sell huh.

kevm14
07-17-10, 10:58 PM
Like I said, according to Don, whom I spoke with today, that car has been wholesaled, paid for, and is waiting to be picked up. They had too much money in it for what people wanted to pay, evidently, and it sat too long. And he did say there were like 10 people who were interested. The story seems legit to me. From what he was saying, the decision to wholesale comes from a VP of Valenti, not the sales manager for the Cadillac portion of the dealership. They basically say you need to trim X dollars of stale inventory, and that's it. It's just one of many that were sold that way recently.

Caddy916Squad
07-18-10, 12:08 AM
My turn to get one! :)

Baltimore07V
07-18-10, 01:43 AM
lol nah i actually got book value on my truck (and it even has body damage from an accident). but i also threw down 2 G's. and yes i got the certification and i gave them a list of things to take care of for me, clutch, clutch fluid, there was some oil shit in the rear of the tires got them checkin that out and the rearend n fixing any issues. plus getting the NAV updated. i told them forget about the tires i can get them from someone else for much cheaper.

it worked out nice my plan was to finance 25k and i financed 26k and got the CPO warranty, so that works for me.

This is the other problem you will have with these cars Kevin. Higher demand then product available. The good ones get bought up.

ma-cts-v
07-22-10, 04:35 PM
OK so I bought a G8 GT in march w/ only 3k miles on the clock, week after I bought it the dirve shaft needed to be replaced and it took 4 weeks! week after I got it back I got in an accident and wrecked the front end good, that took 6 weeks to fix. I basically have owned the car for 4 months and drove it 1 month. I am noticing that the front leather is all ruffled up, the steering wheel control for radio isnt working (after bringing it in to be fixed once alredy) the AC is making a strange noise, and 1 of the rear speakers is blown!!!! I have been a GM guy since I got my license in 94 and never had this many issues. Bad Karma I am thinking trading her in and I think I want a CTS-V. I found one somewhat close that is an 07 w/ 20k on it they are asking 32k is that reasonable? What should I be looking for when I test drive it? I heard about the diff issues but that they have been fixed on 06 and later. Im I making the right move????

kevm14
07-23-10, 06:21 PM
I don't want to jinx myself, but hopefully you all will be happy to know that I have a deposit on a CTS-V.

repenttokyo
07-23-10, 06:22 PM
yeah son!

kevm14
08-01-10, 09:46 AM
Mission successful. An interesting path, I will say, was taken to obtain this car.

A forum member PM'd me on July 20th asking if I was interested in his car before he trades it in. It was an 05 with 96k and had Magnaflow, K&N, chromed stock wheels, UUC shifter, new brakes, recent clutch and slave, 2nd gen diff and new FG2s. He also mentioned using Zaino and the car being immaculate. I was a little iffy about the car being pre-modded but I also remember what many forum members said about that: it's actually desirable if they are the right ones. It was also stealth gray (on light gray interior), which I hadn't been considering but when he told me the price, I said, you bet I'll come look at it.

So that night I met him and looked at the car, as he was also in New England, luckily. I ended up loving the car. Let me tell you, he took excellent care of it, despite driving like 27k miles a year in it. He said the only catch is he has to end up buying his replacement car in order to sell me his V. I figured something was going to go wrong in this process, as I finally found a car I liked at a price I liked, so it's only natural for something to go wrong, right?

I talked to him the following day and he told me that they gave him a little more than what they told him over the phone, so he just traded it in. To be honest, I don't really blame him, because he had to drive like 5 hours just to get the replacement car. But then he offered up the name of the dealer and said, hey, maybe you could track it down and try to make a quick deal. I was beginning to feel worn out from this process but since I liked the car so much I ended up calling.

It was at a dealer in eastern PA called Bergey's Chevrolet of Zieglerville. I didn't get quite the deal that the forum member was offering but it was close, and as a bonus, I was able to trade in my 95 Fleetwood for a fair price, which definitely offset the small price difference.

The car now has 97k and I found out it is actually under CPO until 5/2011 and another 3k miles, which is fantastic.

I don't mind sharing price info so the final price was $15,400 or $13,400 after trade, which I think is a fantastic deal. It's funny, suddenly I'm in love with the car at this price. The other cars were just too expensive and I couldn't fall in love with them. This one is great and suits me well, as I usually buy toward the low end of the price scale for any particular car.

The only real issue is that I don't like the shifter. It's high effort and too notchy. I prefer the stock shifter, but I will try changing out the fluid to see if that helps.

Here it is when I looked at it on the 20th:
http://kevinallenmoore.com/photo/d/87550-2/DSCF1805.JPG

http://kevinallenmoore.com/photo/d/87559-2/DSCF1807.JPG

And here it is yesterday when I picked it up in PA:
http://kevinallenmoore.com/photo/d/87611-2/DSCF1823.JPG

http://kevinallenmoore.com/photo/d/87619-2/DSCF1825.JPG

http://kevinallenmoore.com/photo/d/87623-2/DSCF1826.JPG

According to Compnine.com, the exterior and interior color combo is 159 out of 4,194 2005's, so that's kinda cool.

Baltimore07V
08-01-10, 11:51 AM
Congrats

Houdini
08-01-10, 12:44 PM
Looks great man. Congratulations! That is a hellavu price and it looks perfect. Get some tint on that bad boy!

repenttokyo
08-01-10, 09:17 PM
congrats dude, i'm really happy that this all worked out for you. welcome to the family! i took mine on a 1,000 mile roadtrip this week and man, it was like heaven.

kevm14
08-01-10, 09:32 PM
Update:

This car is awesome.

That is all.


Though I am making my list to finish up the remainder of this CPO warranty. Maybe I'll run it by you guys after I drive the car a few more days/weeks. Nothing really is wrong that I'd bother spending my time or money on but if it's still under warranty, I don't want to be kicking myself as it rolls 120k in 2 years that I should have gotten XYZ fixed when it was still under warranty.

Oh and I did my first "mod." I sanded and installed a star washer on the hood support ground connection. Oil temp didn't really seem bad but I did it anyway.

Baltimore07V
08-02-10, 12:54 PM
Welcome to MOD Hell.