: HELP!! Goldie is down.....



75sled
05-31-10, 12:01 PM
Well took the family on a camping trip to east Tennessee for a four day weekend.
Parked Goldie in the carport before we left early Thursday morning. Tried to fire her up this morning and she won't start.
She will crank endlessly, but won't start at all. I sorta figured it to be a fuel or spark issue, but honestly I don't know where to start.
After four (almost five) days on not driving a cadillac I am about to go into DTs. Please, any suggestions would be great.

HUF
05-31-10, 02:15 PM
Well took the family on a camping trip to east Tennessee for a four day weekend.
Parked Goldie in the carport before we left early Thursday morning. Tried to fire her up this morning and she won't start.
She will crank endlessly, but won't start at all. I sorta figured it to be a fuel or spark issue, but honestly I don't know where to start.
After four (almost five) days on not driving a cadillac I am about to go into DTs. Please, any suggestions would be great.

Hit the tank while someone is cranking. The fuel pump might be going south.

thefleetwoodguy
05-31-10, 03:27 PM
mike
have someone turn the key to run position, while
you listen at the tank for the f/pump to cycle, it should run for
about 2 seconds, my guess is its not
VERY common on these models for this to happen
and its not the pump, but the in tank wire harness
its an easy fix i/m/o, but requires dropping the tank, 2 -15mm bolts
2 fuel lines.1 vent the filler hose clamp, and vent clamp
the worse part of the job is draining the tank
I can get you the part # for the harness its about $12 or less
the contacts need to be cleaned off, chicks finger nail board works great for that,
I solder all the connections to avoid any future issues but thats not 100% needed

Im almost sure thats the issue
huf ie correct if you bang on the bottom middle front part of the tank,
it most likely will start working, but you need to fix it tio avoid getting stuck somewhere, you can do this job yourself EASY!, plus I can walk you through it
good news I have the bumper piece you need....Jim

75sled
05-31-10, 06:05 PM
It does in fact run after you turn the key to the on position. I tried this several times just to make sure that is what I was hearing and it is in fact the fuel pump.

I have had a couple of weird things happen over the past couple of weeks where I go to get in the car and it won't even crank. I can open the hood and close it and then it will crank and start. But this is the first time that it will crank and not start. I know the starter is good because it is brand new. I am very comfortable with the battery being good as I have been out to try and start it a few times today and it cranks and cranks without ever dragging down.

When it started with the original problem, I discovered that the postive bolt on the battery was stripped/cross threaded. I went and purchased another one and one of those side post-to-top post converters so that I was sure it would be a nice tight connection.

If the fuel pump is running is it safe to assume that it is getting fuel or could the filter be just that clogged? If it is getting fuel then where should I start checking for spark?

The bumper peice...are you taliking about the little chrome cap for the front bumber-ette?

thefleetwoodguy
05-31-10, 06:19 PM
check the coil wire make sure its tight
pull a plug wire and check for spark
did you check for codes???

75sled
05-31-10, 06:21 PM
I did not check for codes. I have all of that printed out at work but don't have it here. What should i check for?

HUF
05-31-10, 06:22 PM
It does in fact run after you turn the key to the on position. I tried this several times just to make sure that is what I was hearing and it is in fact the fuel pump.

I have had a couple of weird things happen over the past couple of weeks where I go to get in the car and it won't even crank. I can open the hood and close it and then it will crank and start. But this is the first time that it will crank and not start. I know the starter is good because it is brand new. I am very comfortable with the battery being good as I have been out to try and start it a few times today and it cranks and cranks without ever dragging down.

When it started with the original problem, I discovered that the postive bolt on the battery was stripped/cross threaded. I went and purchased another one and one of those side post-to-top post converters so that I was sure it would be a nice tight connection.

If the fuel pump is running is it safe to assume that it is getting fuel or could the filter be just that clogged? If it is getting fuel then where should I start checking for spark?

The bumper peice...are you taliking about the little chrome cap for the front bumber-ette?
Sounds like ignition. Get the trouble codes first. Ignition control module, opti, coil...

75sled
05-31-10, 06:31 PM
OK I'm no dummy but this is my first LT1 so WHERE THE HELL is the coil wire?


Sounds like ignition. Get the trouble codes first. Ignition control module, opti, coil...

Jim, didn't you say you repalced all of this last summer right after you bought her?

jayoldschool
05-31-10, 06:51 PM
Coil is on the front of the left cylinder head. Under the first base intake tube.

I have had this happen before. Car would crank forever, fuel pump worked fine. It was a bad coil wire.

Take apart the wiring for the coil, inspect, clean, lube, put back together. Try a new coil wire (first) and coil (second) if that doesn't work.

96 got a better coil than the 94/5 cars, but wiring is slightly different.

Here's what the coil looks like. Water pump is off in the pic, and you can see one of the two studs that mount the coil/module:

http://www.shbox.com/1/coil_loc.jpg

75sled
05-31-10, 07:19 PM
Thanks for the reference. I did go reseat the coil wires and clean and check the connections. No luck. Also, I ran the diags and here is what I came up with. Assuming the one begining with 1 are history I won't list those.

01 31
05 50
08 switched from 86 to 85 and back a couple of times?????
13 19
23 60
24 24
29 26
30 81
31 80
36 85
37 50
38 04

All other sections either had 00 or codes that began with 1.

Any ideas?

HUF
05-31-10, 07:28 PM
Thanks for the reference. I did go reseat the coil wires and clean and check the connections. No luck. Also, I ran the diags and here is what I came up with. Assuming the one begining with 1 are history I won't list those.

01 31
05 50
08 switched from 86 to 85 and back a couple of times?????
13 19
23 60
24 24
29 26
30 81
31 80
36 85
37 50
38 04

All other sections either had 00 or codes that began with 1.

Any ideas?
Here is the list of codes:
http://myweb.accessus.net/~090/cfb-tech.html#diag
All those beyond 04 are not trouble codes, but rather parameters like RPM, coolant temp., etc. By the way, I would list all the history codes as well.

thefleetwoodguy
05-31-10, 07:38 PM
theres been a rash of faulty fuel gauges lately
including my own 95
I would dump 4 gallons of gas in her and try again
since it was sitting for a little, todays gas evaporates
at a much faster rate then the ol days....

thefleetwoodguy
05-31-10, 07:40 PM
and yes I did switch out the dist when
I first got it

outsider
05-31-10, 07:45 PM
yeah my fuel gauge is off too. i never let it come down lower than a quarter tank since the last time ;)

jayoldschool
05-31-10, 08:24 PM
Can of gas, then new coil wire.

75sled
06-01-10, 08:18 AM
I am going to try that now. I hope it works. 2 questions

code 01-31 ....................... PASS key fault telltale circuit open or shorted to ground .... does this mean the PASS key has disable the starter recently?

also, how do you clear the codes or, what makes them become history codes.

75sled
06-01-10, 08:54 AM
OK, I just poured two gallons of gas into the tank and no go. I don't think it is a guage problem because I only had 234 miles on the tank. If that is all I got on a tank I am in worse shape than I thought. Besides two gallons brought the guage up to one notch below 1/2 tank. First I would just turn the key and let the pump run a few times. Then I cranked and cranked and even cranked some more......no go. I guess I have to try a coil next.

outsider
06-01-10, 08:58 AM
did you check to see if the spark plugs are making spark. Take one of the wires off and hold it close to some metal while someone cranks. You should see the spark jump but don't electrocute yourself. it hurts

75sled
06-02-10, 11:18 AM
I am going to check that this afternoon. BTW, if I do have to replace the coil, what all has to come off to get to it? I am sure I could figure it out, but I haven't studied it real closely and I was just wondering so I could be prepared for it.

BTW, no one ever answered about the 01-31 OBD code about the pass key. I was just wondering if this could be causing my problem with a no crank situation on ocassion.

75sled
06-03-10, 10:43 AM
aaaaahhhhhhhhhh........what a relief. She's back. I did as was instructed above except I plugged an old wire onto the coil itself so I wouldn't have to crawl under the flippin car to get to a plug wire. No spark was there so I replaced it with about 45 minutes and $25. Now she is alive again.

Driving her for the first time in a week, was like...like sex after a 6 weeks postpartum recovery...oh so good.

Thanks for all of the input guys. My brother inlaw came over about half way thru the repair and helped out. When it was all over he said "good troubleshooting". I told him I had lots of help from a great group of folks here.

outsider
06-03-10, 10:48 AM
nice man, good job.

abdullahone
06-03-10, 11:36 AM
Driving her for the first time in a week, was like...like sex after a 6 weeks postpartum recovery...oh so good.




Well Said :D