: Ported Blowers



PGA2B
05-17-10, 04:15 PM
Here you go Coach....:thumbsup:

If you would be kind enough to take some photos of your blower I am sure everyone would like a show and tell.

coach123
05-17-10, 06:15 PM
I will take some pics as soon as I get it and post for everyone.

cad08stsv
05-17-10, 07:54 PM
Coach,
I talked to Bob at Stiegemirer today, He spoke very well of you. Togather with all of the rest of your fans and him, we can hardly wait to see how it all works out. He want on to say you should at the very least see 100 hp at the RW
& TQ around a little higher. All that with internal modifacations. I told him we are all setting here with baited breath. I know I have said it before, but thanks for all your hard work on this project. I take my hat off to you.
Russell :bouncy::worship:

coach123
05-17-10, 10:58 PM
No problem... I typically don't follow the mold so I figured there was better and cheaper options available. I wanted to keep it warranty friendly and a simple two step approach to achieve increased performance and reliability. Bob is an expert with these superchargers so that was the easy part. The next step is the killerchiller, based on my research this eliminates the need for an upgraded heat exchanger and reservoir while providing much lower and consistent IAT2. This will eliminate the heat soak problem no matter how hard we run our cars. The killerchiller utilizes our A/C system to cool the air going to the intercooler.

550HP STSV
05-18-10, 10:53 AM
subscribed. extremely interested.

cad08stsv
05-19-10, 09:35 PM
Hay Coach,
How did everything work out. We are all waiting for the word from you. I like this guy Bob, he seems honest and forthcomming. I will be embarking on a very
ambishes engine rebuild, which will includes Heads, Block, Pistons, Rods, Cams, Headers & cats, and what ever eles is needed. I will be using his blower set up.
No one seems to know much about the Northstar engine except D3. I need extensive information on how they will be doing the rebuild. I am particularly interested in the cam profile they plan to use or if I can get some profiles from Bob since he does overhead cams on some of his Mustangs. valve timing is also
very important. As I said before I need extensive information on this engine. I have the shop manuals but that is only the starting point in understanding these engines. We will need to do extensive research in order to build a 700 to 800 RWHP car. I have just the guy to do the work. All I need is information.
Let see what we can come up with. Thanks
Russell

Florian
05-19-10, 11:39 PM
you can build the motor/blower all you want, youre gonna need a custom rear to handle it. DAMHIK.


F

cad08stsv
05-20-10, 03:15 AM
Good Morning again F.
You are right about that, I would also think the trans would come into play as well as the drive shaft and axals. I would like to take a look at some Corvette parts. or just have some made. I have been making parts for my 68AMX for years now, so that is not something new to me. Thanks for writing F. Your input is always of value. What does Damhik mean? ( Is it Damn Hick?) Thanks again, Does the Dog bite?
Russell

Florian
05-21-10, 08:41 PM
DAMHIK = dont ask me how I know.

My 04 CTS-v was one of 3 with custom rears due to the power it made....our STSvs have the same glass jaw Getrag rear. There are solutions to the issue - the C3 Vette rear, a Dana rear and a Viper rear will all fit (with tweaking)....but the damn noise you get is really unacceptable. That was the reason I sold my monster CTSv and bought the STSv....

Good luck with the mods....be careful what you wish for.


F

coach123
05-25-10, 10:28 AM
Sorry for the long delay guys but I do have some pictures to update everyone on the progress. I have attached them which show the blower porting work Stiegemeier has done.
58858

58859

58860

58861

58862

58863

58864
The blower is currently on my car and the car is running, however I have to wait until Jesse from Wait4me gets back in the country to finish the tune (I purchased his handheld and 4 tunes several months ago). I have a dyno slot waiting as soon as he contacts when he is available. The car seems to go into partial limp mode limiting boost and power when trying to do a short WOT. The dyno and data logging should be able to determine what the problem is. When reinstalling the blower I went ahead and changed the plugs to NGK TR6 0.035 gap, installed catch can breather on PCV system as well as oil cap breather (all optional), and changed the supercharger belt to a heavy duty green gates belt from Napa. The reason for going with the catch can breather was the amount of oil residue I found on the laminova fins of the intercooler. The PCV system is allowing a lot of oil vapors through it causing a build up on the fins. This will hinder the heat transferability of the entire intercooler system. To prevent this as well as blow back during WOT with additional boost I felt it was a good idea to install the breathers. The expected boost according to stiegemeier should be between 16-17lbs.

Florian
05-25-10, 11:52 AM
basically youve added 5psi to the blower (stock, currently limited to 12psi)....thats nice. What was the cost?


F

coach123
05-25-10, 12:26 PM
I'm not sure if it is only 5psi that has will be added since it has the additional porting work on the blower and intercooler lid. According to Bob he expects to see 16-17 lbs of boost after the snakebite/porting work so if porting work was not done then you might expect another 1-2 lb of additional boost giving you a total of 17-18lbs of boost. Remember boost is basically a function of back pressure on the blower which is why you see 9.5-10 lbs of boost out of the blower itself but 12lbs of boost after the intercooler lid. The snakebite advertises 50% more boost so if we typically see 12lbs than that would put you at 18lbs. Bob re-gears the blower according to the specific car and pulley setup. As far as individual pricing I would give Bob a call at Stiegemeier and talk with him. I did everything as a package but he breaks down everything in price to suit your needs.

coach123
05-25-10, 12:32 PM
I forgot to add the picture I'm sure everyone was hoping for. Here it is
58878

58879

He did some additional porting work inside the blower and to the throttle body but I didn't bother to take pictures as I was in a hurry to get everything put back together.

PGA2B
05-25-10, 04:29 PM
He did some additional porting work inside the blower and to the throttle body but I didn't bother to take pictures as I was in a hurry to get everything put back together.

Coach:

I have heard strange things about the boost actuator cable. Did you run into any problems with it, like getting it recalibrated?

coach123
05-25-10, 09:40 PM
Well it's definitely a possibility, I tried to be extremely cautious when removing and reinstalling it. When I reinstalled the blower I made sure that the actuator was taunt. I guess I will trouble shoot after I get some dyno runs next week. Crossing my fingers and hoping Wait4me is available first of next after the holiday.

What type of problems have people had when the actuator was not set correctly? I am experiencing reduced boost and reduced power when trying to go WOT when driving in 2nd or 3rd gear but I am not really pushing it until I get it dynoed. Its weird because if I go WOT from a slow roll the boost shoots above 15 (max out gauge) and plenty of power. Then when driving around 25+mph and go WOT the boost slowing creeps up to max of 14 and power is not there. I'm hoping it is something with the tune so I don't have to take the blower off again. I have also tried unhooking the boost solenoid to see if that makes a difference but the same thing occurred.

PGA2B
05-25-10, 10:32 PM
I have heard that if the actuator is not set properly then there will be reduced boost but I have no idea if that could be what you are experiencing. I am sure that Jesse can figure out your issues.

On a side note, that is why I am torn between getting the SCT Pro Race package and the HP Tuners because Jesse and his experience tuning our cars via SCT.

Psycho-albanian
05-26-10, 08:24 PM
PGA2B how much was everything. I'm getting my blower ported by steigmeir too just want to know what it cost you total if you don't mind.

PGA2B
05-26-10, 08:54 PM
PGA2B how much was everything. I'm getting my blower ported by steigmeir too just want to know what it cost you total if you don't mind.

That was Coach. I haven't done mine yet.:D

Psycho-albanian
05-26-10, 09:00 PM
sorry:bang2:

coach123
05-26-10, 10:50 PM
I'm hoping to finish up everything after the holiday weekend. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Jesse from Wait4me is available to help tune the car next week. Everything is bolted up and car is running but need to tune it.

Psycho-albanian
05-26-10, 11:53 PM
Try livernois motorsports they had a sts-v as their shop car plus they have tuned a xlr-v and my sts-v you might have better luck with them then waiting for jesse.:cool:

Dr. Design
05-27-10, 06:25 PM
Hello,
You can sens us your ECU and we can tune it and ship it back to you the next day. We have a tremendous amount of knowledge on the STS-V and XLR-V and can tune accordingly. Please let us know if you have any questions.

Thank you,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac


I'm hoping to finish up everything after the holiday weekend. I'm keeping my fingers crossed that Jesse from Wait4me is available to help tune the car next week. Everything is bolted up and car is running but need to tune it.

srmcclean
05-28-10, 12:07 PM
Coach,

I cant respond to your private message even though I have been a forum member for 7 years. Please e-mail me at lawyerrandy@hotmail.com about the D3 intake. I can do the deal you pm'd me about. Thanks Randy

Florian
05-29-10, 12:31 PM
dont know if Id post my email on a webforum... just sayin.

F

550HP STSV
06-02-10, 04:30 PM
Talked to Stiegemeier, they basically said the STS-V blower sucks, and is nothing like the M112 found on cobras. Too intricate, too many twists and turns and the blower config is way different. They did Coach's (the only one so far) and charge around $1295-1495. Im waiting to see his actual gains to see if its worth it.

550HP STSV
06-02-10, 04:31 PM
whoops

coach123
06-02-10, 05:06 PM
Just to update everyone... I have a dyno appt. on Saturday and have talked with Jesse from Wait4Me. I will be emailing him the info from the dyno as soon as I get it. I am curious whether I will need to upgrade injectors or not. I also need to determine why I have slow boost rise and lack of power during WOT. It may be the boost actuator needs adjusting or something needs changed in the tune. I have read that the E67 ECM's have a boost enrichment table so when it measures boost above a set amount it automatically cuts fuel from the cylinders to prevent overboost situations. Lots of variables to consider, I guess I will find out Saturday. I am out of town all the time so this entire project is taking longer than I expected :mad:

cadillac94pimpin
06-02-10, 05:31 PM
Just to update everyone... I have a dyno appt. on Saturday and have talked with Jesse from Wait4Me. I will be emailing him the info from the dyno as soon as I get it. I am curious whether I will need to upgrade injectors or not. I also need to determine why I have slow boost rise and lack of power during WOT. It may be the boost actuator needs adjusting or something needs changed in the tune. I have read that the E67 ECM's have a boost enrichment table so when it measures boost above a set amount it automatically cuts fuel from the cylinders to prevent overboost situations. Lots of variables to consider, I guess I will find out Saturday. I am out of town all the time so this entire project is taking longer than I expected :mad:

Yeah I thought I read somewhere that if the ECU detects an over boost condition it will actually let some escape out some how. Or maybe as you said cut the fuel back but then it would be extremly lean with more boost less fuel :-/

It would make sense that the the ECU would protect the car and all it's
(easily breakable part's) DIFF Cough Cough lol.

Psycho-albanian
06-02-10, 07:59 PM
That sucks to know that gm put crappy blowers on the sts-v,you think paying all that money for the sts-v they would give us a decent/better blower. Can't wait to see coach's results if the steigmeirer port puts down good numbers i'll buy it in a heart beat.

coach123
06-02-10, 10:45 PM
I think what 550HP STSV was referring to is not the blower itself but all the intricate turns that the air takes before entering the engine head. An Eaton blower is an Eaton blower, its all the additional cooling components that cause it to perform differently. Cadillac chose to use individual laminova coolers rather than the intercooler block like on the new CTS-V's. The air enters from the rear of the supercharger, which is a restriction point itself, then gets sucked into and up towards the front of the car. At this point it enters the supercharger, then is pushed up and around the top of the laminova coolers and then back down thru a series of turns finally reaching the heads. All these turns coupled with the fact that you have a ton of casting marks inside the blower assembly causes a restrictive system. The intercooler lid is a major choke point which is why D3 offers the upgraded P&P lid for additional hp. I believe the intercooler lid is the reason why we see 12lbs of boost since without it the superchargers are realistically getting around 9.5-10lbs.

Psycho-albanian
06-03-10, 12:12 AM
Did the stage 5 snake bite include the lid port coach?:confused:

coach123
06-03-10, 09:10 AM
My package deal included stage 5 port, snakebite, TB port, Lid port, and supercharger air manifold outlet clean up work (get rid all castings).

cad08stsv
06-03-10, 01:36 PM
Hi Coach,
Would you mind giving us a ball parrt figure on what you had done, Please
Thanks
Russell

coach123
06-03-10, 01:47 PM
I was given a discount since this was the first of it's kind for our cars. I can't speak for Bob but I would except all the work I listed above to run between $1600-$1900. Honestly, I would contact Bob and speak with him about it and maybe you guys could swing a discount if you sent in multiple blowers. I hate to be vague, however I told him I would not reveal my actual price paid as it was lower than he plans to sell it for (not by much though :thumbsup:).

550HP STSV
06-03-10, 04:38 PM
I think what 550HP STSV was referring to is not the blower itself but all the intricate turns that the air takes before entering the engine head. An Eaton blower is an Eaton blower, its all the additional cooling components that cause it to perform differently. Cadillac chose to use individual laminova coolers rather than the intercooler block like on the new CTS-V's. The air enters from the rear of the supercharger, which is a restriction point itself, then gets sucked into and up towards the front of the car. At this point it enters the supercharger, then is pushed up and around the top of the laminova coolers and then back down thru a series of turns finally reaching the heads. All these turns coupled with the fact that you have a ton of casting marks inside the blower assembly causes a restrictive system. The intercooler lid is a major choke point which is why D3 offers the upgraded P&P lid for additional hp. I believe the intercooler lid is the reason why we see 12lbs of boost since without it the superchargers are realistically getting around 9.5-10lbs.

Sorry, this is exactly what I ment to say. Sorry for the confusion, but this description is dead on.

Coach, do you feel that the D3 upgraded P&P lid actually increases boost from 9.5 (stock) to the full 12? If so, that would be a great first upgrade for any owner, correct?

coach123
06-03-10, 05:25 PM
No.. the stock boost on the car is 12lbs but if you were to measure the boost prior to the air hitting the intercooler lid than you would only see around 9.5-10lbs of boost. Boost is a factor of back pressure so if you have a small exhaust you will see much higher boost than if you put a less restrictive exhaust on the car (the same can be said with headers and heads). P&P the intercooler lid should decrease boost if anything since this is a restrictive part of the assembly. So if you P&P the intercooler lid it will show less boost but will give you more hp. This is the reason why people P&P the superchargers and then increase boost because you essentially decrease back pressure by P&P thus decrease actual stock boost (typically 0.5-2lbs). To get all the potential of the P&P supercharger you would want to increase the boost at the same time by changing pulley or doing the snakebite mod. This essentially changes the supercharger efficiency range allowing for more hp/tq gains without the efficiency lost. Of course there is always a limit to what someone can gain due to heat and mechanical losses.

One of my first post in this forum (prior first gen CTS-V owner) I asked about our supercharger efficiency range and pulley sizes. I needed to calculate the spin of the rotors to determine where we need to be on the efficiency chart after P&P the supercharger. No one answered me but I figured it out myself :) after I tore the supercharger off the car. No if I can only get time to finish my mods and get the car dynoed for everyone.

Psycho-albanian
06-03-10, 09:16 PM
How loud is the superchager coach at WOT? I can't wait to see your results i'm dying to get the snake bite done on my sts-v.:yup:

coach123
06-04-10, 01:44 AM
After snooping around on the new CTS-V forum to try and find a reason why I am having trouble with boost when going WOT I found the following thread http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-cts-v-series-forum-2009/196553-question-jesse-regulator-valve-actuator.html. I got in from a business trip late this evening and had to try removing this P valve on the boost actuator to see if would allow the supercharger to increase boost above the max limit set in the ECM. It worked like a charm!!! I had immediate boost above 15psi on the stock gauge and it never dropped off. Dyno time is set up for tomorrow afternoon. I finally feel like I am getting somewhere. Jesse has not tuned a STS-V with additional boost so we will see how it goes. I know he is a very busy person but several of my emails were never responded to (kinda of disappointed). Hannah really makes up for the non responses to the emails though, she was extremely kind and helpful when I spoke with her over the phone.

I will post what I find out tomorrow. Does anyone know if Jesse's heat exchanger upgrade for the CTS-V will fit the STS-V (he never responded to my email)? I am torn between the killer chiller type heat exchanger or his (if it fits). A standard heat exchanger upgrade can be installed within a day but I would need to fabricate the other type of flat plate heat exchanger. The latter would decrease IATs much lower and would be tied into the A/C system so the A/C would need to be on to achieve really low IAT2 temps. Since I am traveling so much lately I am having the rest of the work done at a local performance shop (Vengeance Racing). This shop is top notch and did work on my old CTS-V.

LITTLEELVISDAN
06-04-10, 02:55 AM
Vengeance is in my back yard. I'm dropping by tomorrow to check it out. Is it there? I was going to have them do a LS7 for me to put in a Factory Five GTM. I'll stop by and chat them up.

Florian
06-04-10, 11:09 AM
Factory Five <drool>


F

cad08stsv
06-04-10, 01:48 PM
Coach and Dan,
How did the dyno go today. Please give us an update when possible. Coach you are the man on this mod. I like your throurghness. Hope all went well
Best
Russe;;

PGA2B
06-04-10, 02:30 PM
Dyno time is set up for tomorrow afternoon.

Two things.

1. How was it after you modified the vac port?

2. PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE post up your Dyno results.

coach123
06-04-10, 04:37 PM
Well gentlemen, I wish I had good news but I don't. After driving up to Vengeance Racing shop they postponed my dyno time until next Tuesday due to some issues with a 1000+hp car they were working on for a magazine :banghead:. I really wanted to at least get it on the dyno to see if my injectors will be sufficient but I guess I will have to play the waiting game. Regardless everything will be completed next week.

The P-valve modification I did eliminated the ECM capability of limiting max boost to 12psi. I basically followed the top vacuum line on the boost actuator (labeled X) back to the supercharger and capped it off leaving the vacuum line still connected to the actuator in case of service work. This vacuum line connects on the front of the supercharger under the entrance to intercooler. My boost reading now maxes out the stock boost gauge under light throttle response. I reinstalled my stock tune this morning and will dyno tune from this as a starting place.

cadillac94pimpin
06-04-10, 05:13 PM
Is it possible when the ECU detects an over boost condition that the pressure is released some how?
I would think it would, to protect all its easily breakable parts DIF cough cough lol. You are probably going to need a lot of Dyno time to get it right. As you are adding so much power and boost to the car. Do you think injectors will be needed? If so do any companies make injectors for our set up. You may need a higher output fuel pump as well.

We need to get with the company and say hey we have ten blowers that need the same work. I am sure they will give us a deal. That would be over $10,000 we would all be handing to them.

I do think that it will need supporting mods injectors,fuel pump, better intercooler etc etc to get the most out of the upgrade and to protect your car and the superchager from heat and wear.

You mentioned the dealer not being able to tell that the mod was done. However when you need warranty work done for those who still have one and the car runs poorly with the stock ECU programming and the porting the techs are going to be scratching there heads lol.
As long as it doesent run to badly maybe they wont notice. Another option would be to remove that actuator before you bring it in.
but im sure it sets the CEL if you do. But maybe not. or program the accuator out maybe they wouldnt notice. I really have no idea.

How hard was it to remove the supercharger? If a shop did it how much labor was it to have done?

I give you tons of props and respect for deciding to experiment with your machine. I really cant wait to see the results.

If you have a tune question E-mail Alex at pcm performance they did my fleetwood and said they could tune the V ECU.
He probably could answer any questions that went unanswered. He responds very quickly.

Looking forward to adding 100 rwhp. That would be INSANE!



EDIT: I was typing while you were I guess. We were kind of on the same page.

Psycho-albanian
06-05-10, 12:54 AM
Damn coach that sucks, you drove all the way there only to be turned away, i'd be pissed. I'm dying to find out your results,is the supercharger any louder with the snake bite or is it the same as having the d3 stage 1.5 intake on it.

coach123
06-05-10, 12:58 AM
cadillac94pimpin.. answering your questions below

1. yes the ECM detects over boost via the boost actuator and calls the actuator to open the bypass valve when this occurs.
2. I will know Tuesday whether the stock injectors are sufficient and whether I will need a boost a pump setup.
3. I am trying to determine the best heat exchanger modification right now.. I am leaning towards a flat plate heat exchanger that ties in the vehicle A/C system for cooling purposes (gives the lowest IAT temps possible)
4. My plan is to return to stock tune when service work is needed and plug tune back in after work is completed. All pulleys will be stock and everything will look stock besides the fact I vented the valve covers rather than putting the PCV system back on (easy switch back if dealer cries about it). The upgraded heat exchanger mod would be were the dealer might get me but I plan to hide it well and they will never be able to figure out what it is.
5. I removed and re-installed the supercharger myself which takes about 4hrs to remove. I called around and the local shops wanted between $500-700 to do the work not including gasket costs. There are a ton of gaskets that you should replace costing around $200-300 dollars for replacing all of them.
6. I am afraid I may be short the 100rwhp due to the fact that I do not have a full CAI but instead just the first half. I am working with a shop to do a custom one off full CAI for about half of what D3 is charging. This will definitely affect total hp gains. My car dynoed 376rwhp and 392rwtq prior to the modifications (all SAE corrected and on mustang dyno). I will post up before and after dyno results hopefully tuesday evening.

coach123
06-05-10, 01:05 AM
The supercharger has a louder whine to it not sure if it is as loud or louder than D3 air intake since I don't have one. When parked in drive you can hear a faint gear turning since the gears Steggy used on mine where straight cut. I spoke with him about it and he discussed possibly getting helical cut gears made next batch which would be very quiet. I would advise everyone to ask for helical gears so he makes an entire batch of them. The sound isn't bad but it's not cadillac quiet. I probably would not even hear it if the engine cover was on. If he makes helical gears he told me he would swap mine out if I wanted. All the other snakebites have used straight gears though.

Psycho-albanian
06-05-10, 07:26 PM
Are you gonna have a open filter intake or will it be like a volant intake closed up so it doesn't suck hot engine bay air.

550HP STSV
06-05-10, 08:40 PM
Coach,

I'd be interested in any info on the intake. I also am looking to get something similar to the stage 1.5, but dont want to pay D3 $1000.

coach123
06-05-10, 11:13 PM
Right now I have just got the first section of CAI before it splits around the supercharger. I used 4" polished aluminum and a Spectre cone air filter (total cost $65). I am going to have a full CAI fabricated sometime very soon. I have played around with routing a 2" pipe up from the brake duct to provide additional cold air but don't know if it would be worth it or not. I wanted something I could easily shut if I decided to take it to a road course and needed the additional cooling air for the brakes.

PGA2B
06-05-10, 11:24 PM
Guys- There is a major manufacturer that is working on a air intake for us. Their name has been thrown around in this thread but I can't say who it is..........:thumbsup:

But in a month or two there will be a better and MUCH cheaper option than D3

coach123
06-06-10, 07:25 PM
Will this be a full CAI equivalent to the stage 1 & 2 intake? If so that would be great and I might hold off on fabricating a complete intake.

PGA2B
06-06-10, 07:45 PM
Yes it will be a 2 stage intake. As they are not yet a vendor I can not say anything about it except it will be ready in a month or so.

PGA2B
06-08-10, 08:55 AM
:bump:

It's Dyno Tuesday!!

Heres to a good session:rockon:

cad08stsv
06-08-10, 10:06 AM
Good Luck today Coach, I know we are all waiting for your answers.
Russell

coach123
06-08-10, 06:12 PM
Here's the update guys.... We got it on the dyno and started tuning to find that you are going to need to step up the injector size. The stock injectors are 42lb and we are going with a set of Siemen 60lb injectors. They will be picked up this evening and tuning will commence tomorrow morning. I'm hoping to finish up tomorrow afternoon. According to the mechanical boost guage I am getting 16lbs of boost with ambient temps at 89F. They showed me some possible restriction points on my exhaust from the shabby job the muffler shop did when installing my magnaflow mufflers. If I get high back pressure readings tomorrow I will fix that and I am waiting patiently for a new company to come out with a full CAI. I plan on upgrading the intercooler system at the end of the week. Mike at Vengeance is data logging everything so all information including dyno sheet should be available soon. One more day:2thumbs:

Psycho-albanian
06-08-10, 08:33 PM
Damit i was excited to hear the results:rant2: Oh well one more day won't kill me.

550HP STSV
06-08-10, 11:50 PM
likewise!

coach123
06-09-10, 05:12 PM
One more day :annoyed:.... Mike at Vengeance is still working on the tune but injectors are installed with no problem. It should be done tomorrow at 11:00am. He said he is having some issues with detonation and is working on the exhaust cam settings to alleviate the problem but doesn't have time to finish it by the end of today.

Psycho-albanian
06-09-10, 05:16 PM
:crying::crying: this sucks

BlownV
06-09-10, 09:49 PM
Just run her on vpQ16 all the time. That will take care of any knock lol :stirpot:

What does the stock ignition map at WOT look like btw?

firepwr
06-10-10, 03:35 PM
here is at least one guy hungry for an update! hope it went well this morning-

Psycho-albanian
06-10-10, 03:56 PM
I'm waiting too..

coach123
06-10-10, 09:55 PM
Okay everyone the results were not as good as I expected. Maybe Bob at Steigmeier porting was a little overzealous in predicting 100rwhp not knowing all the components of our engines. My before dyno (w/o P&P blower) resulted in average of 366hp and 372tq (SAE corrected) with ambient temp of 83F. After a joint effort of tuning from Jesse (Wait4Me) and Mike (Vengeance Racing) it resulted in average of 419hp and 452tq (SAE corrected) with ambient temp 97F. I have attached the dyno from today showing the average of results after the upgrade work.

There were over 13 dyno pulls performed and some type of heat exchanger upgrade needs to be done as we typically seen between 10-15rwhp drop between dyno's unless we allowed for proper cooling. I still have the stock cooling system on the car. I am debating about putting Jesse's heat exchanger he makes for the new CTS-V on my car. I took dimensions and think it will fit. Either that or I will use one of those killerchiller's that utilizes the A/C system to cool the intake air. I was told that if I get a full intake it might pick up another 15-20hp and tq as they thought the stock section was somewhat restricting. The other option would be a full 3" exhaust instead of the stock 2.5". Obviously things like porting heads and headers will help hp numbers as well.

I will contact Steigmeier tomorrow to see if he has any comments. I need to get the dyno run data from Mike. I was in a hurry to beat rush hour traffic and forgot to have him give me the complete file. If everyone is not aware this Snakebite upgrade yielded 16lbs of boost in 80-90 degree heat. I am going to also get a hold of Jesse tomorrow and see if he will convert the EFIlive tune that is currently in my car to a SCT tune so that I can easily swap it using my handheld for dealership visits. I think with a full CAI and heat exchanger upgrade I might see close to 450-460hp and I'm sure it would bump up the torque a good bit as well.

Psycho-albanian
06-10-10, 10:23 PM
MY sts-v put down 390 h.p. and 388 tq with just the d3 1.5 intake and borla cat-back. Coach i really think that you would have made 450 with a full intake and tune.:thumbsup:

coach123
06-10-10, 10:54 PM
Yeah I think the same thing honestly... Anyone want to lend me their 1.5 intake for dyno verification :).

I want to wait until this other manufacturer comes out with a full intake instead of having one fabricated myself as a manufacturer will typically flow test the intake to achieve optimum performance. D3's intake is a great alternative but IMHO too expensive for what you get.

There is definitely something restrictive as the gap between the hp and tq seems too large to me. I expected the hp and tq to be within 10-15% of each other if everything was right. I guess all in all I picked up a little of 43rwhp and 80rwtq from original. Room for improvement is there by doing the simple mods most people on this forum have already done.

Psycho-albanian
06-11-10, 12:02 AM
I'm waiting to see what kind of intake this company is making too. I wish d3 would have made a closed air-box intake oh well,i like the sound the 1.5 intake makes at WOT.:lildevil:

Psycho-albanian
06-11-10, 12:17 AM
So do you think the snake bite is worth a purchase or not coach? i am stoked about the snake bite, but if it can't deliver why buy it. :mad:

PGA2B
06-11-10, 12:46 AM
Stiegemeier is a Guru on Mustangs and other Ford products and his reputation speaks for itself. It will just take him a little time to get use to the STSV. Remember that 419 at the wheels is close to 519 or more at the crank. Coach is on the right track and just needs some more help from the intake and possibly exhaust.

As for the Intake I am in almost daily contact with the vendor and just as soon as I have information to share trust me this will be the very first place I am going to post it. They are just finishing up some projects as the summer show season is nearly here. They are on the Hot Rod Power Tour and Good Guys show circuit as well as others. There will be a group buy involved and we will get pre-release pricing. I have no idea what that is going to be yet and there needs to be dyno testing as well. My company should be a fully sponsoring COG vendor with in the next few weeks so I will be able to post more about current products available for us.

Psycho-albanian
06-11-10, 01:08 AM
I like the jump in tq, i always thought the sts-v was a little low on the torque end. Coach will be fine when he gets that intake situation taken care of. I can't wait to get the snake bite done on my v i think with the stage 5 snake bite i should be close to 470 h.p. 450 tq. my car with the d3 1.5 intake and borla exhaust and d3 torquemaster spark plugs, put down 390 h.p 388 tq.:bouncy:

coach123
06-11-10, 01:24 AM
I think PGA2B's statement is correct. Adding an additional 4-5psi boost to any car should make some good hp and tq numbers. I look at it like this.. I was quoted about $1500 for D3 underdrive pulley (not installed) so if you can get the same amount of boost from the snakebite and porting work done for around the same price, I think it's an easy choice. You will need upgraded injectors with either route you go. I am a little frustrated at this point because of the time it has took to get this far and the fact I paid for tuning twice but thats the price you pay for being the first guy. I wish I knew how much I stand to gain by going with a 3" exhaust. I am hoping Bob Stiegemeier might have some helpful recommendations tomorrow. I would hate to do the exhaust and not see the benefit especially since I just purchased all the 2.5" magnaflow equipment within the last 4 months.

PGA2B
06-11-10, 10:44 AM
I think PGA2B's statement is correct. Adding an additional 4-5psi boost to any car should make some good hp and tq numbers. I look at it like this.. I was quoted about $1500 for D3 underdrive pulley (not installed) so if you can get the same amount of boost from the snakebite and porting work done for around the same price, I think it's an easy choice. You will need upgraded injectors with either route you go. I am a little frustrated at this point because of the time it has took to get this far and the fact I paid for tuning twice but thats the price you pay for being the first guy. I wish I knew how much I stand to gain by going with a 3" exhaust. I am hoping Bob Stiegemeier might have some helpful recommendations tomorrow. I would hate to do the exhaust and not see the benefit especially since I just purchased all the 2.5" magnaflow equipment within the last 4 months.

The issue you will have is if Bob feels the 3" exhaust will help the intake will still be holding you back. Ask him for his opinion and go from there. I would trust him with my car fully and his expertise is well know in the tuning world. If he thinks you will have an issue with the exhaust then I would say to do it. The air intake will be 4" to the "Y" and either 3.5" or 3" to the back. We are going to look at the back "Y" to see if it can be fabricated as well. There may be space constraints so we'll have to see.

550HP STSV
06-11-10, 11:31 AM
I'm pumped. Any way we can get better pricing based on your port? Also, where did you get your injectors, and how much?

BlownV
06-11-10, 11:47 AM
I just finished modeling up a full CAI for our cars on our 3D drafting program here at work, created a drawing for it, and sent it out to a machine shop supplier that I am familiar with. I am expecting somewhere in the $280-350 range for the material and fabrication. I will let you know what quote I get back and post up some images off of the CAD program this weekend.

PGA2B
06-11-10, 12:50 PM
I just finished modeling up a full CAI for our cars on our 3D drafting program here at work, created a drawing for it, and sent it out to a machine shop supplier that I am familiar with. I am expecting somewhere in the $280-350 range for the material and fabrication. I will let you know what quote I get back and post up some images off of the CAD program this weekend.

Are they making it out of Aluminum or Metal?

Dr. Design
06-11-10, 12:55 PM
We looked into all of this about 3 years ago when we were doing all of our development on the STS-V application, brings back fun memories. The performance gains never justified the expense. The money would be better served to go towards the crank pulley as the porting cannot be undone if you wanted to go back to factory. The HP & TQ gains will never be fully realized with your current exhaust and intake system. Was any work done to the lid?

What were your IAT2 temps? How much timing are you running?

Thanks,

Dr. Design
D3 Cadillac

coach123
06-11-10, 01:36 PM
Okay let me try to answer everyone's questions..

550HP STSV - I purchased my injectors from fuelinjectorconnection for $389 all flow matched

PGA2B - I spoke with Bob Stiegemeier this morning and without looking at the data log from the tuning he thinks that the cats are a major choke point. He said that since they were a one piece part incorporated in the exhaust manifold I could gut them and run a straight pipe through them. He said he does this on the mustangs and it picks up around 30 to the wheel. He said that the increased back pressure is causing excessive build of heat and the ECM is pulling timing/spark reducing power. He also said I need to get a full CAI which would pick up the hp numbers as well. Adding headers would help as well. He thinks when the intake and exhaust are taken care of I should see at least 475rwhp and around 475rwtq maybe closer to 500.

Dr. Design - I need to get all the data log information from the tuner to find out the specific timing and ect... The snakebite was installed on the blower and the blower was ported to include the throttle body and intercooler lid. A spacer was not added to the intercooler lid. I will get the additional information and let everyone know.


Everyone I am waiting anxiously for a decent price CAI to complete this project. I will be working on the exhaust side and will leave the CAI intake side to you guys. I would be happy to use my car as a demo and will pay for dyno time if anyone wants to send me a early design CAI.

Dr. Design - I really like your intake and would purchase it the entire intake system cost was less.

cad08stsv
06-11-10, 07:04 PM
Coach Good afternoon,
Your work has been exemplary, I want through this with my Impala SS. Send me your email address and I will send you some photos of what I did. Granted it was not a blower, but a
Supercharger "Vortex" but all the extras you are experiencing are the same. I kid you not, the entire project came out to be around 25K. I went from an LT1 to a LT4 Lingenfellder
heads, LS1 ignition, from 24 lbs injectors to 52 lbs injectors, Crane Cam, roller lifter and rocker arms, dual springs titainum retainers, SS 265 intake 142 exaust three angle value job. Custom made headers and Ramdon Cats. The exaust was 3" with flowmaster SS, Of course that ment the rest of the drive train needed upgrading as well.
The drive shafe is alumium 3" Spicer U joints, the transmission was a 4L60E, a piece of sh t at best so I tried a Camero T56 and blow that up the first time I ran down the track.
So I went to a Viper T56 installed a chevy imput shaft that worked, now for the fun part the, flywheel was changed to a alumium, but the rpms droped so fast when I pushed in the clutch well lets just say it was bad for keeping up to speed so I returned to a Balanced steel, big differnce. the clutch was first a Zoom but that didn't work out so good so I went to a stage 3 clutch, pressure plate, and throwout bearing. Then came the rear end. I use Richmond Gear 4:56 with a new posi chunk, and Moser axels and Baer Brakes. The intake was a custom routed air with a suncoast hood with inlets right up front. In the end the car made 772 HP to the rear wheels and it was streetable with about 4 to 6 MPG, for a 4200 lbs car it was frigging fast. I would have to change the surpintine belt to exclue the altanator because I would freeze it up with the rpms while drag racing.
The purpose of this disertation is that I understand you plight very well. You have your work cut out for you. Depending on how far you want to go, you may want to consider porting and polishing the heads. Finding a new profile for the cams. and looking into a better timming chain. You may have to have that custom built. Cloise was good for me.
I understand the crank is forged but the rods are not. That too may be a challange. You haven't even gotten into the block, boring, tourqe plating and aline houning. I think if you
go the distance with this project it will make you very very fast. You will give the CTSV guys a run for there money. Just remember they have the advantage of running a chevy
engine, so there are lots of parts out there The very best of luck to you. You know the entire STSV group are rooting for you, including me. So go get'em cowboy and don't look back.
Again thank you for being a pioneer with this car. I really love this car and I'm sure you do too.
Russell :highfive:

Psycho-albanian
06-11-10, 07:45 PM
Damn,this whole ported blower thing is getting up there in how much it costs. the only thing i would need to upgrade if i got the snakebite is the fuel injectors, i have the d3 1.5 intake,and a borla cat-back system on my car already so i should get over 450 h.p. with the snakebite port.:)

BlownV
06-12-10, 03:32 PM
I requested quotes for Al 6061, polished to mirror finish (4), and thin wall steel, chromed. The weight penalty doesn't bother me as much as I think the polishing process could cost but we will see this week.

PGA2B
06-13-10, 12:32 AM
I was thinking more about heat transfer.

BlownV
06-13-10, 01:40 PM
Gotcha, for that I am planning on insulating wrap. I have also added two 1/8-NPT ports on the intake for the meth kit I have sitting here from my old vehicle. Should take care of intake temps and allow me to bump pulley size a little.

LITTLEELVISDAN
06-13-10, 10:00 PM
Coach. Let's hook up. We can swap the intakes at the dyno. Pm me your number.

coach123
06-13-10, 11:12 PM
Absolutely!!! I have been using dynolab in Marietta. They have a special every Thursday (3 pulls for $50 or 3 pulls with A/F for $75). Any other day the dyno with A/F is $100. Arthur the owner is a really good guy. I will be out of town until Saturday. We could do it then or possibly wait until next Thursday. I travel a lot for my job so I am in and out of town. I PM'ed you with contact info.

550HP STSV
06-14-10, 09:11 AM
Okay let me try to answer everyone's questions..

550HP STSV - I purchased my injectors from fuelinjectorconnection for $389 all flow matched



Coach - What were your flow numbers? I'm planning on following your exact steps and want to have the injectors ready for when I get the snakebite and take it to the dyno.

coach123
06-14-10, 11:03 AM
I wish I could tell you right off hand. I am still waiting on Vengeance to send me all the data log information. When I find out I will let you know.

550HP STSV
06-14-10, 12:53 PM
Thank you. I want to have the injectors ready!

BlownV
06-14-10, 01:18 PM
Can you post a pic of that d3 1.5 intake? Does it come with a 'Y' into the throttle body or not? I drafted mine up using the stock 'Y' but thought about it this weekend and realized I might need to add that.

coach123
06-14-10, 02:05 PM
BlownV - the D3 1.5 intake does not come with the back Y that goes into the throttle body. There are definitely some space restrictions but I think if a larger one can be made it would be worth while. Are you fabricating the intake yourself or having someone do it?

Psycho-albanian
06-14-10, 10:21 PM
Coach, what do you think about the snakebite so far is it worth the money? i know you need the intake but i just wanted to get your opinion on the snake bite as far as throttle response and the sound thanks.:)

coach123
06-14-10, 11:12 PM
I think it was definitely worth it. The throttle response is soooo much better and the added 80rwtq is great. Both Bob and I agree that this setup should easily produce at least 475rwhp with some intake and exhaust work. I honestly don't floor the car in 1st due to the excessive torque. I tried once or twice and wheel hopped the heck out of it. The throttle response is so crisp that I can easily control the amount of boost and power by pedal manipulation much more so than without the snakebite. Our engines are so similar to the 03-04 mustangs and they produce over 500rwhp with this setup.

I am getting frustrated with Vengeance Racing who tuned my car in conjunction with Jesse over the phone. I have been asking for all the data log information and the tune be sent to Jesse and myself since it was tuned on Thursday. I have called 3-4 times asking for it and even drove 40 minutes back up to the shop on Saturday to have them download it on my USB drive. They made some excuses why they couldn't at the time but promised to email it to me before the end of the day. I called them again this morning and have yet to see the data.

Why does all this matter. Well for one my factory warranty is up on the 22nd and I'm trying to get some little stuff replaced that the GMPP warranty doesn't cover. I need Jesse to convert the EFIlive tune to a SCT tune so I can reflash my stock tune in the car for the dealer visit. Also I promised people on the forum and Bob Stiegemeier the data logs to verify why the numbers were not as good as we expected. I asked Mike the tuner at Vengeance what the timing was and he said it was set at 14 degrees and that Jesse told him to drop it 4 degrees but told me to ask Jesse why?? Obviously, knowing why the timing was dropped would help me determine the next move to unleashing more power. A 4 degree drop in timing might be equivalent to 10-15rwhp & tq. Bob told me he runs the mustangs with this setup between 19-22 degrees timing. Bob also told me the closed couple catalytic converters on our cars are very restrictive and actually cause the exhaust gas to back up into the cylinders raising temperatures more so than cats that are located further away from the heads.

Does anyone on the forum have EFIlive software??

TimmyC
06-14-10, 11:38 PM
Going to 10 degrees from 14 would drop 25hp or more. I'd like to know why the timing is not up around 19-22 like the Vengeance guy said too. 5-8 degrees is a LOT.

P.S. Check your email.

coach123
06-15-10, 12:03 AM
At this point I just want the tune with options open or unlocked so that I can view everything and make changes myself it wanted. Unfortunately, I do not know how to tune the car but only know the very basic stuff. If I ever get this sent to Jesse to convert to SCT I am going to ask him to save it with options open so that I can have things adjusted thru my SCT handheld if needed. This would prove very valuable when I start adding additional mods.

You have email... those exhaust manifolds look just like ours. I am working with a gentlemen in Florida now to try and finish the A/C chiller upgrade for our intercoolers. Busy Busy Busy... I swear between having my car apart and traveling for work I have only driven it a handful of days in the last month and half. Now if I can just push the people fabricating th cold air intake to have them available by the end of the month. I really think in a few months we will have plenty of options for our car to reach 500rwhp. All thanks to a few company's and innovative people on this board.

BlownV
06-15-10, 10:55 AM
Coach - I modeled up the intake in SolidEdge and made some drawings for it so that any machine shop can fab it. I am still waiting on getting my quotes back from the shops I sent the drawings to but should be able to kick off one of the shops sometime this week on it. I am considering going unfinished aluminum and wrapping the intake in thermal shield.

coach123
06-15-10, 11:16 AM
Did you model the last Y section before the throttle body? If we could increase that section I think it would be worth while. I took that section off and polished the inside when I had my engine apart. You would be amazed at the amount of burs and cast markings in it.

BlownV
06-15-10, 11:29 AM
I did not model the Y-section since I did not remove it. To be honest it looked like a PITA to get off without yanking the SC. I am not familiar enough with our engines yet to be able to work blind back in that area. I definitely believe you about the cast marks though as I was surprised how bad our intakes were. How is the split into the throttle body attached back there? Might be able to pull it this weekend and take the measurements to model it up.

coach123
06-15-10, 12:19 PM
The connection between the throttle body and the intake is the same as the other intake connections. Just use a flash light and a small screw driver it pops right off. You do not have to remove anything else but it is a PITA to wrangle it out.

TimmyC
06-15-10, 07:03 PM
Try this pic for reference:

http://www.popularhotrodding.com/enginemasters/articles/cadillac/0504em_cady/photo_03.html

LITTLEELVISDAN
06-15-10, 07:58 PM
coach where are you going to be this Thursday? In town?

LITTLEELVISDAN
06-15-10, 07:59 PM
TimmyC try that photo again.. we can't see it.

Psycho-albanian
06-15-10, 08:48 PM
Hey coach, if i were you i'd give livernois motorsports a call they tune sts-v's they tuned mine it woke my car up and they're real fast in responding to your questions. That guy from vengence seems like he's giving u the run-around. Give Andy ricketts a call (313) 561-5500 he tuned my v and is a real nice guy they will give you a bad-ass tune,they tuned a bone-stock xlr-v and it made 405h.p. they're good.:thumbsup:

coach123
06-15-10, 09:33 PM
LITTLEELVISDAN- Unfortunately, I will not be in town this Thursday. I will be in town from Saturday to Tuesday then back on the road again. If you are available Saturday or Monday those would be the best days for me to meet.

Psycho-albanian - I was really trying not to do an email tune which is the reason I had Vengeance do the tune. I will get the information it just might require me to drive back up to their shop. Beside I refuse to pay for three separate tunes. If it came back to that I would literally drive to Jesse's shop and have him do it in person. I appreciate the help though and I'm sure livernoise does an excellent job.

Psycho-albanian
06-15-10, 09:44 PM
No prob coach, just give them a ring and see what they say wouldn't hurt.

TimmyC
06-15-10, 09:44 PM
TimmyC try that photo again.. we can't see it.

Right click on it and either copy the url or open in new window/tab depending on your browser. There are a bunch of STS-V motor pics there.


LITTLEELVISDAN- Unfortunately, I will not be in town this Thursday. I will be in town from Saturday to Tuesday then back on the road again. If you are available Saturday or Monday those would be the best days for me to meet.

Psycho-albanian - I was really trying not to do an email tune which is the reason I had Vengeance do the tune. I will get the information it just might require me to drive back up to their shop. Beside I refuse to pay for three separate tunes. If it came back to that I would literally drive to Jesse's shop and have him do it in person. I appreciate the help though and I'm sure livernoise does an excellent job.

I just sent you an email about headers. They will be cheaper than I thought.

LITTLEELVISDAN
06-16-10, 11:32 AM
Coach. Will you be in town next Thursday? The 24th

LITTLEELVISDAN
06-16-10, 11:35 AM
LITTLEELVISDAN- Unfortunately, I will not be in town this Thursday. I will be in town from Saturday to Tuesday then back on the road again. If you are available Saturday or Monday those would be the best days for me to meet.

Psycho-albanian - I was really trying not to do an email tune which is the reason I had Vengeance do the tune. I will get the information it just might require me to drive back up to their shop. Beside I refuse to pay for three separate tunes. If it came back to that I would literally drive to Jesse's shop and have him do it in person. I appreciate the help though and I'm sure livernoise does an excellent job.
Oops. Didn't see this post earlier... Letsmplan for Monday the 21st. Where do you want to do it?

coach123
06-16-10, 11:48 AM
The cheapest place to dyno is

DYNOLAB INC
1535 Rosewood Circle, Marietta, GA 30067-7409
(678) 560-0692‎
dynolab.net

I believe he charges $75 for 3 pulls during the week and $100 for 3 pulls with A/F. If you have another place that you are more experienced with let me know. I can give him a call today and to ensure he has an opening for Monday.

LITTLEELVISDAN
06-16-10, 12:49 PM
Snakebite for volume would be around $1,800. Plus he can make injectors for $150. And is willing to look into pulley rings for us.

LITTLEELVISDAN
06-16-10, 12:51 PM
our biggest mod to support more boost is going to be getting rid of the cad converter on the header....

PGA2B
06-16-10, 01:08 PM
Tim,
Shoot me a PM on the headers.

Psycho-albanian
06-16-10, 01:33 PM
Is anyone making headers for us? someone should contact kooks and see what he can do for us.:thumbsup:

550HP STSV
06-16-10, 02:55 PM
$1800!

Psycho-albanian
06-16-10, 09:56 PM
$1800!

1800 for headers?

coach123
06-16-10, 10:18 PM
Would anyone be interested in shorty headers w/o cats if the cost was around $900? I know someone who could make a few sets. He is not set up to mass produce but would make a few if requested.

LITTLEELVISDAN
06-16-10, 10:53 PM
Sounds interesting coach. And $1,800 is for the ported
snakebite conversion.

PGA2B
06-16-10, 11:06 PM
Would anyone be interested in shorty headers w/o cats if the cost was around $900?

I'm listening.......

550HP STSV
06-17-10, 01:47 PM
Any way we can do shortys w/ high flows?

coach123
06-17-10, 02:25 PM
Probably but price would go up. You could always just buy the magnaflow high flow cats yourself and have then welded in during the install

Psycho-albanian
06-17-10, 11:46 PM
Coach,how much hp do you think we can get from changing the cats to magnaflow cats? i'm trying to get a list ready of what i need this is what i need.
1.snakebite blower port
2.intercooler upgrade
3.Free-flow cats
I know it would be a bad idea to keep the stock headers on but i had bad luck with long tube headers on my ws6.:(

coach123
06-18-10, 11:31 AM
I think if you went with Magnaflow high flow cats without headers the gains would be anywhere between 5-15rwhp. If you went with some Random Technology high flow cats the gains may be up to 25rwhp it will really depend on how restrictive the stock manifolds are. The difference between the two brands is the cell count in the cat itself. I believe that Random Technology are known for the highest flowing cats w/ metal core around (100-200 cell cats) while magnaflow cats are excellent performers they flow less because they contain 300-400 cell cats. You should not throw any codes with magnaflow but may with the random technology cats.

Where you going to weld the high flow cat in the same location as the stock cat?

LITTLEELVISDAN
06-18-10, 11:48 AM
UM these engines run so hot and coupled with a tune leaning them out, and add more boost, I highly doubb we need Cats once the car is warmed up. I may be wrong but cats are to hold the raw un burnt gas until it gets disipated by the heat of the exhaust gas.. once the car is warmed up the cat doesnt magically clean the exhaust. most new cars are emissions tested by hooking into the computer and looking for error codes along with putting a pressure test on the gas tank. No tailpipe sniffers anymore... So without cats we should pass emissions tests. I had my cats removed on my S2000 with a straight through pipe for 3 years and passed every year.

LITTLEELVISDAN
06-18-10, 11:54 AM
we put washers as spacers between the o2 sensor to move it further away from the exhaust flow to get the correct reading and not throw any codes. we didn't need to shut off the sensors. So if you have headers without cats made, have them weld in a long threaded bung hole for the rear o2 sensor. run the car and see if it throws a CEL if it does grind some off the bung hole and test again. You should find a happy medium where the o2 sensor see's the exact amounf of flow as it did with the cat. Then product them for the rest of us.

If I remember correctly the bung was about 3/4 inch long. Some of us had to add a washer or two depending on tune to get the cell to stop.

cad08stsv
06-18-10, 08:51 PM
Nice thinking Dan, I like what you have to say. It would seem to help with the Blower mod being decussed on other threads. It just may do the
trick for Coach. I know he has been concerned about this issue for some time. He is also concerned about headers and better flowing heads.
I would hope this adjustment you are talking about Dan is going to prove to be compatable with his mods. I trust in the end that these issues
with Cats and 02 Sensors proves to be just what is needed. Thanks Gentleman.
Russell

TimmyC
06-18-10, 09:13 PM
UM these engines run so hot and coupled with a tune leaning them out, and add more boost, I highly doubb we need Cats once the car is warmed up. I may be wrong but cats are to hold the raw un burnt gas until it gets disipated by the heat of the exhaust gas.. once the car is warmed up the cat doesnt magically clean the exhaust. most new cars are emissions tested by hooking into the computer and looking for error codes along with putting a pressure test on the gas tank. No tailpipe sniffers anymore... So without cats we should pass emissions tests. I had my cats removed on my S2000 with a straight through pipe for 3 years and passed every year.

Cats are not just there to catch unburnt fuel. That is one of their functions but they also convert certain molecules into less harmful ones. No car is going to pass a sniffer test without cats.

I think you're right on the way testing is usually done now though. The emissions stuff is presumed to be working and they just check for codes.

TimmyC
06-18-10, 09:16 PM
I know it would be a bad idea to keep the stock headers on but i had bad luck with long tube headers on my ws6.:(

I don't understand this fear of headers. Headers is an assumed modification past a certain point. Hundreds of thousands of people with newer cars have headers on them. They can't all be bad.

What issues did you have with your other car?

coach123
06-18-10, 10:38 PM
Just wanted to give everyone an update on the Snakebite situation. I think this thread is getting somewhat off topic. I spoke with Mike (Vengeance Racing) today specifically about the tune and he said that the timing was dropped due to excessive heat. He said the car is a huge heatsink (remember I have stock intercooler system) but it was +95F in their garage that day during tuning. He said if I could drop my IAT's enough he could add additional timing.

I told him about the chiller STSV_chiller is working on as well as potentially using methanol injection. They think if these mods drop my temps enough that they could up my timing closing to 19-20 degrees rather than 14-15 degrees. He said this would probably yield another 20-30rwhp and tq. If I do the combo cooling mod I probably use a very safe tune even while using the methanol. In case I ever run out and the fail safe's fail I don't want to be SOL.

I do want to say that I can no longer stomp the gas from a stand still as I wheel hop the car to death. I usually get a good roll before I stomp on it. If something wants to find a cheap fix for the diff without causing a horrible ride I am all ears.

Psycho-albanian
06-18-10, 10:54 PM
I don't understand this fear of headers. Headers is an assumed modification past a certain point. Hundreds of thousands of people with newer cars have headers on them. They can't all be bad.

What issues did you have with your other car?

I had the car tuned but it would always throw the ses light,i had a thing called the scanmaster that would clear the codes but every 50 miles or so it would pop back on. I loved the headers on my ws6 i had the slp longtube headers with their y-pipe and loudmouth exhaust it was loud:yup: but i got tired of always having to turn that ses light off. If i could avoid the pitfalls i had with the ws6,i'd sure as hell would be down for headers on my v.

TimmyC
06-18-10, 11:09 PM
I had the car tuned but it would always throw the ses light,i had a thing called the scanmaster that would clear the codes but every 50 miles or so it would pop back on. I loved the headers on my ws6 i had the slp longtube headers with their y-pipe and loudmouth exhaust it was loud:yup: but i got tired of always having to turn that ses light off. If i could avoid the pitfalls i had with the ws6,i'd sure as hell would be down for headers on my v.

What code were you getting?

Any issue is resolvable. Turning off the secondary O2 codes is easy and any other problem can be tuned out. I have an 6.2 LS3 in my 71 Corvette that doesn't display any codes. It has 1 7/8 headers and a sheet metal intake, cam, etc. No problem.

Psycho-albanian
06-18-10, 11:19 PM
lean bank 2 or something like that i forgot it's been 9 yrs since i had that that car.

Redxped1
06-19-10, 02:38 AM
ive had headers on the past 3Ls1 Fbodys i have had no cats you couldnt stand behind the car with out your eyes all watering. all 3 have had cams every time id pull up to the place id get a weird look and when the car would pass they were in shock. I dont see a this car having a problem worse comes to worse you have the rear tuned out or you make a 02 sim just got to find the restance and make one

PSRmark
06-26-10, 09:45 PM
The Killer chiller is a good idea but is limited to only being able to be used with the A/C on, if you were to make a full pull through all the gears you will probably encounter heat soak by second gear maybe third gear. I say this because with the amount of boost you are running, you are pushing the blower past it's thermal efficiency. I would suggest upgrading the intercooler in conjuction with the killer chiller or instead of the killer chiller using methanol with the upgraded intercooler.

I have ran the STS-V with this much boost on a stock intercooler system to find it hitting over 180 deg. AIT2 by the time I hit the top of second gear.

The second problem with the killer chiller is if you live in a Hot climate, it can compromise your A/C's ability to cool the passenger compartment. I recently have ran in to this problem twice now, but I am in AZ now so that is on the extreme side.

If memory serves me correctly, with similar mods timing was usually good around 18 deg of timing, more if you are using methanol. The timing tables are severely skewed by the AIT2 temps, so keep that in mind.

When they ported your lid, did they index all of the laminova cores? thats usually good for some free HP.

also, why did they replace the injectors? I have built numerous 500+ rwhp V's without needing to upgrade the injectors.

Good luck. Hope to see some good numbers out of it.

coach123
06-26-10, 10:02 PM
I was told by Vengeance Racing that it was running out of injectors on the upper end. I have no way of knowing whether this is completely true or not but went ahead and installed different injectors. My thought process was that I had heard from people who installed D3 stage 2 that they too installed larger injectors when increasing boost by 4 psi.

I did not send my laminova cores to Stiegemeier during the porting process. I would love to hear some of your 500+hp V series cars you have put together. What combinations seem to help the best? Have you specifically done high hp STS-V cars? Lots of questions regarding the need to upgrade stock manifold, cats, and type of cooling mods. Can you give some more information on your personal results of using methanol? I have consistently heard conflicting info.

PSRmark
06-26-10, 10:37 PM
I was told by Vengeance Racing that it was running out of injectors on the upper end. I have no way of knowing whether this is completely true or not but went ahead and installed different injectors. My thought process was that I had heard from people who installed D3 stage 2 that they too installed larger injectors when increasing boost by 4 psi.

I did not send my laminova cores to Stiegemeier during the porting process. I would love to hear some of your 500+hp V series cars you have put together. What combinations seem to help the best? Have you specifically done high hp STS-V cars? Lots of questions regarding the need to upgrade stock manifold, cats, and type of cooling mods. Can you give some more information on your personal results of using methanol? I have consistently heard conflicting info.

I forgot to take in to consideration that all the STS-V's and XLR-V's completed had methanol installed...this could be the difference in needing injectors and not.

I've tried pulling the heads and porting them, but for the cost of removal, porting, and reinstall... I didn't think the 8 or 10 horse was worth it UNLESS the supercharger was upgraded with a larger displacement unit. D3 even has specs for cams but like I said, without changing out the SC it's pointless. The factory SC is not capable of supporting the airflow needed for those to be worth doing.

Working with what you currently have- the best combination I have found was Upgraded boost(16psi probably being max), Ported SC Lid,(optional Lid spacer), Indexing cores, Headers with High flow cats, higher flowing exhaust, less restrictive intake system(maybe extrude hone the rear intake pipe?). it's been a while, but I feel like I'm missing something. D3 plugs maybe?

Supporting mods- Upgraded intercooler with Fans, intercooler fluid reservoir, Methanol, and a proper tuner. With those items installed back to back pulls were no problem and HP numbers stayed consistent.

I have never personally had a problem with methanol ever. But I have heard some horror stories. If you can manage to set the car up with a real light shot of methanol and keep the tune safe enough so that if the methanol fails, you should still be safe. You should be able to install it Pre Intercooler so that when it hits the cores it almost all evaporates but has a cooling effect on the cores itself. (thats all in theory of course)

D3 carries all of the stuff I mentioned, they have YEARS of R&D on these items as I helped develop and test many of those items.

Just an FYI, we tried porting and smoothing the runners of the SC with no gains at all. They even tried to match the flow of all the runners and that didn't help either. The biggest gain was in the Lid itself and indexing the cores.

Hope this helps

-Mark

coach123
06-26-10, 10:58 PM
What type of numbers do people typically see with headers and high flow cats when total boost is around 16psi? The intake and exhaust are no problem and can be completed easily. As far as indexing the intercooler cores you will have to excuse me as I am not 100% sure what this entails. Can you explain in more detail?

Upgrading the cooling system seems easy as well. I had hesitated about doing the methanol because of warranty issues as well. When service techs see systems like this they like to automatically void warranties. I guess I could possibly create a system that can be easily taken on and off for service visits. It seems that I am in need of modifying my intake, headers/cats, and cooling mods then I will have virtually max outed the cars performance. This being said maxing out the performance with typical changes and bolt ons. Obviously, you can build any engine to give high hp numbers when enough money is thrown at it.

PSRmark
06-26-10, 11:23 PM
What type of numbers do people typically see with headers and high flow cats when total boost is around 16psi? The intake and exhaust are no problem and can be completed easily. As far as indexing the intercooler cores you will have to excuse me as I am not 100% sure what this entails. Can you explain in more detail?

Upgrading the cooling system seems easy as well. I had hesitated about doing the methanol because of warranty issues as well. When service techs see systems like this they like to automatically void warranties. I guess I could possibly create a system that can be easily taken on and off for service visits. It seems that I am in need of modifying my intake, headers/cats, and cooling mods then I will have virtually max outed the cars performance. This being said maxing out the performance with typical changes and bolt ons. Obviously, you can build any engine to give high hp numbers when enough money is thrown at it.

Consistently over 25rwhp from headers and high flow cats.

To index the cores- you will notice that the cores have 4 slits that run down the length of the core, 2 slits will be larger than the other 2, turn them so that the large slit faces the incoming and outgoing air flow inside the lid.

The methanol is removable but if any major work needs to be done, it is traceable..you will notice a pink residue on the cores.

You may want to look in to maybe doing a water injection system instead of methanol. Water is safer, but not as effective. or maybe a 50/50 mixture would suite you as well. Not sure, I have yet to do testing on a water injection system for the V.

coach123
06-28-10, 01:36 PM
Would adding a 50/50 mix of methanol and water really free up hp? I have heard of people using the blue windshield washer fluid which is something like 70% distilled water and 30% methanol then tapping into the windshield washer reservoir for the methanol tank. I think this could be a stealthy setup which the nozzles could be easily pulled from the intake prior to dealership visit.

Based off what Stiegemeier told me and the research I have done porting the blowers will reduce IAT temps by up to 20 degrees. I actually indexed the cores when I reinstalled them per GM replacement instructions so I guess I got lucky in making sure that was completed.

I have noticed that D3 doesn't stock the headers and high flow cats but I think I was quoted something like 1800 for the setup if built. I do know an individual that will fabricate headers for less if people are interested in the forum but he would require at least 3 people to go in due to the initial expense of creating the jib and getting the material.

***Is there anything in the ECM that would cause the throttle position to only open to 87% during WOT? I as well as others on the forum have experienced this phenomenon. Is this something that has to be programmed to open to 100%?

PSRmark
06-29-10, 12:17 AM
Would adding a 50/50 mix of methanol and water really free up hp? I have heard of people using the blue windshield washer fluid which is something like 70% distilled water and 30% methanol then tapping into the windshield washer reservoir for the methanol tank. I think this could be a stealthy setup which the nozzles could be easily pulled from the intake prior to dealership visit.

Based off what Stiegemeier told me and the research I have done porting the blowers will reduce IAT temps by up to 20 degrees. I actually indexed the cores when I reinstalled them per GM replacement instructions so I guess I got lucky in making sure that was completed.

I have noticed that D3 doesn't stock the headers and high flow cats but I think I was quoted something like 1800 for the setup if built. I do know an individual that will fabricate headers for less if people are interested in the forum but he would require at least 3 people to go in due to the initial expense of creating the jib and getting the material.

***Is there anything in the ECM that would cause the throttle position to only open to 87% during WOT? I as well as others on the forum have experienced this phenomenon. Is this something that has to be programmed to open to 100%?

I think using the blue stuff would be a great idea, using a lighter mixture still has its benefits but how much I am uncertain. I used to install all the Meth kits at the bottom of the washer jug a few inches below the washer fluid level sensor, that way the customer knew when the washer fluid light comes on not to get on it until they added more.

I'm glad you were able to get the cores installed right, every car I have pulled the cores out of have been off from the factory.(possibly slight movement while in operation?)

I know that D3 uses high quality stainless with high flow cats and custom made copper header gaskets to prevent any leaks, the system we designed was also install friendly. Keep that in mind if you decide to have your guy do it. Also, maybe try calling James and seeing if he would be willing to cut you a break on a quantity production run...

I have a few snap shots that I still have loaded in my tech 2 of full throttle runs on a stage 3 STS-V, If memory serves me correct the TPS sensor would hit 99% and when traction control(even "shut off") would take over it cuts the throttle position back some as well as actuates the SCB(supercharger bypass) solenoid to 62%. I will try to verify that info tomorrow at work and report back when I get home.

cad08stsv
06-29-10, 08:57 AM
Mark,
Please clear your PM box
Russell

PSRmark
06-30-10, 12:06 AM
Mark,
Please clear your PM box
Russell


Sorry Russell, it's clean now.

Wait, didn't I give you my cell number at some point? just call me if you want. If you dont have it anymore I will PM it to you. just let me know.

coach123
07-06-10, 01:20 AM
Mark... Where you able to find the runs of the Stage 3 STSV to verify throttle position??

BlownV
07-07-10, 01:59 AM
All this talk of methanol/water sounds very familiar to something I posted about a month or two ago...got me an 80 awhp and 104 awtq gain over 91 octane on my old car.

coach123
07-07-10, 09:22 AM
What type of car did you have again BlownV? If it was a turbo or twin screw then you can easily pick up that much with a methanol kit. All the research I have done states that eaton blowers with a water-air intercooler setup will only gain 10-15rwhp at best.

PSR_Mark.. Can you shed some light on the hp gains from using a methanol kit. I was under the impression it doesn't add much at 50/50 blend. Its main purpose is to cool and maintain hp during consecutive runs.

BlownV
07-08-10, 11:46 AM
Yes the previous car was a turbo and I would not expect to gain AS MUCH from the STS-V but 40awhp and 50awhtq is within reason and I would be willing to bet that a +4psi gain from the blower could be handled by the motor with the addition of the meth/water. +4psi in our displacement with losses for heat should yield ~70awhp if you run the hand calcs.

Please note all of previous posts about meth injection have stated that I use a mix of meth/water (roughly 50/50 but this can be tweaked and some windshield washer fluids are right around this range including HEAT) because each component of the mix offers a different advantage. The methanol cools the intake charge tremendously due to its high specific heat and also acts as a fuel but this is just a bonus. The water content raises the specific octane rating to the 105-110 range depending on the amount you are injecting.

Also, my research points toward twin-screws gaining the least from meth/water injection...which makes sense since they are extremely thermally efficient. This is the reason why I have been looking into adapting a whipple to our motor but I hesitate since I am guessing that the blower would then support way more power than our internals could handle (pandora's box that I don't want to open while the car is under warranty). Turbos and centrifugal superchargers do gain the most because they are the least efficient...hence the need to intercool these almost all the time (above 6-7 psi). From what everyone has been stating on here about the thermal inefficiency of our blowers and their intercooler system I suspect that we would experience significant gains from the injection cooling system.

Please keep in mind that if you just toss on the meth/water injection then you will only see a small gain in overall power (due to the denser charge) and more consistent power. However, if you tune your AFR and timing map after you add it then you will be able to lean out the mix and add timing to make more power. In addition, you will be able to run more boost out of the blower without detonation...ie smaller pulley.

coach123
07-08-10, 12:06 PM
I agree with what you are saying about methanol injection. There is additional power to be gained when timing is adjusted for the addition of methanol. It is my understanding that the methanol itself is the reason for an increase in octane. If added to my car I would not adjust timing though due to possibility of running out of methanol, nozzle pluggage, pump failure, etc. For me the risk is too great in having the engine go boom if something went wrong. I always try to play the safest method. If it was a pure project car that I took to the track I could see using a higher methanol mix and trying to squeeze all the power I could out of it.

I am going to go the superchiller route as this will drop IAT's the lowest without turning to methanol. If my IAT's are still high I might do a meth injection kit but I would not increase timing but only use it as a cooling mod. I think the superchiller will be more than enough cooling capacity but time will tell. Reading about the lightnings and mustangs they have had excellent results with these A/C type chillers. I haven't really heard any of them using meth injection unless they are running turbos or do not have intercoolers. The ones I have seen with setups like ours installed it on their cars said they picked up 10-15 at the wheel with a supporting tune.

Someone should take the plunge and install a meth injection kit to see the gains tuned and untuned. Maybe datalog the IAT's as well. Any takers, I have too much on my plate as is to do it. I would think D3 would have this information but don't know if they would be willing to share it.

jwall09
07-13-10, 12:03 AM
What can be expected from a ported blower in terms of performance gains, acceleration and engine life?

GizmoQ
12-29-10, 09:29 PM
Coach123,
I hope to have better luck. Dropped the V off at Stiegmeier's today.

http://i943.photobucket.com/albums/ad271/GizmoQ/European%20Vacation/FireFox/Snake%20Bite/steigmeiersnakebite00560x48.jpg

I think with them having the car there, plus the D3 stage1/2 Intake, he can tune it on his dyno and give me step by step dyno numbers. Bob and his crew want to use my car as part of their advertising campaign to generate more NorthStar business so he'll be doing several dyno runs: stock, D3 Intake, Snake Bite, hiflo cats, etc. My goal is 575HP at the wheels, He seems to think 500 should be easy.

I have posted a build thread over on the XLR-V forum (http://www.cadillacforums.com/forums/cadillac-xlr-v-series-forum/218514-snake-bite-xlr-v.html#post2453202). Feel free to subscribe and join in on the discussion.

PGA2B
12-29-10, 10:02 PM
SWEET GIZ!!!

Keep us informed.

coach123
12-29-10, 11:09 PM
GizmoQ.. I'll start following your thread on the xlr-v forum. I'm glad that someone within driving distance has allowed Bob to work on their car. When I first went over the engine and car with Bob he did the calculations and said he thought that 500rwhp was attainable maybe a little less due to our cars being an automatic. The problem was he was to far of a drive for me to drop the car off so he only had the blower that I sent him. He will thoroughly test every option to find the best way to achieve the most power. If you visit his website you know he is all about detail and will spend the time to maximize performance on a car. I can't wait to see the results.

550HP STSV
01-19-12, 05:33 PM
What can be expected from a ported blower in terms of performance gains, acceleration and engine life?

Let us discuss the Stiegmeier max port on our blowers, no snakebite.

PGA2B
01-19-12, 06:42 PM
With the max port (I think it's called Stage 5) there should not be any issues. It should help your IAT2 temps drop and better utilitize your Intercooler System upgrades.

550HP STSV
01-19-12, 08:15 PM
Jamie, when you go WOT is your fuel pump at its max?

PGA2B
01-19-12, 08:21 PM
I'd have to check. I think I am loosing a Cat right now so I am testing for that. Could be a while before I can answer you.

550HP STSV
01-19-12, 08:44 PM
i got till the end of spring....

GizmoQ
01-19-12, 08:55 PM
With the max port (I think it's called Stage 5) there should not be any issues. It should help your IAT2 temps drop and better utilitize your Intercooler System upgrades.

That's what I thought, too. But with the SnakeBite, it just made the blower more efficient, i.e., more boost. My IAT2 was still through the roof at WOT. It did help the intercooler cool things down faster after the run, but I'm leaving 50HP on the table cause the engine backs out timing as IAT2 increases.

550HP STSV
01-19-12, 09:51 PM
Yes, but you are seriously overspinning the blower to get 18 to 20 psi via your snakebite. Im curious as to the gains WITHOUT the snakebite, with a moderately smaller pulley, and the full port job.

1madstsv
01-20-12, 07:56 AM
550 I would get the blower ported just not by bob. I would not let hem work on my lawn mower. I can not say to much right now. But I will say don't have him do it he can't even put the blower together right. That's all I will say for now more to come in a little.

550HP STSV
01-20-12, 09:25 AM
Is there any other source that can port these blowers?

1madstsv
01-20-12, 10:10 AM
Not that I know of. But I would think any one that can do other blowers our cinder heads could do it.

PGA2B
01-20-12, 11:01 AM
Is there any other source that can port these blowers?

Check with Tim. He was working on an option I think. If not I have a source out here.